 Hello and welcome to the NewsClick studios in Delhi again where we're talking Indian football and joining us today are the very handsome and very young Arjun Pandit and he's joined by Nikhil Nas, both experienced sports presenters and fans of Indian sport. We're going to be talking about of course India vs China, the big game, the biggest game that the Indian national team has had in a while and a credible performance from India. We're also joined today by Anand Tyagi who's actually commentating on that game along with former ISL player Ian Hume. So let's go first and find out what Mr Tyagi had to say. Yeah, thanks Siddharth and Arjun for having me. Now what I make of the China game depends on how I look at it. When I was putting my notes together before I went into commentary for China vs India, I was actually quite taken aback by the fact that the Chinese national team hadn't done too well in 2018 under, you know, Marcelo Lippi. He's got a great experience of not just winning the World Cup and the Champions League but also coaching in China with Guangzhou Evergrande. Let's remember he got three Chinese Super League titles back to back, also won the AFC Champions League with them and also got a lot of those players to play for him in this Chinese national team but they weren't doing so well in 2018 and they had only picked up two wins. So if I look at it from the point of view that India went to play a side that was struggling in 2018, I would say, okay, good result for India, not too bad. But if I look at it from the flip side of saying India went to play a FIFA official friendly for the first time on Chinese soil, I'd say it is a fantastic result. It's a phenomenal result because the odds were stacked against us. Nobody expected us to even get a draw. If we'd lost respectively, we would have still taken it on the chin and reasonably well but that wasn't to be. It was a nil nil score and yes, we were lucky. Yes, we were fortuitous but you have to ride your luck in games like these and I genuinely believe that a decade, decade and a half later when you look at inflection points, points which led to transition of a national team, I think this game would hold pretty high, hold itself pretty high on that list because these are the kind of games that give you confidence when you go into a tournament like the AFC Asian Cup. If we could hold China to a nil nil, regardless of their form in 2018, till the 85th minute, hey, we can do this to Bahrain as well, we can do it to Thailand and why not the UAE, the host as well. Talking about those three sides, while India were busy playing China, these sides were also playing pretty stiff opposition. I think UAE played Honduras who were ranked above them and FIFA rankings drew 1-1. You don't talk about Bahrain, I think they lost 1-nil to Syria at the same time and Thailand actually hosted Trinidad and Tobago, which is not a bad side at all and managed to win 1-nil. They also travelled to Hong Kong, did Thailand and won 1-nil over there. So it's good to see that India were playing opposition, there was much superior to it, at least on paper, maybe not on form on that day but you've got to thank Goodpeetsing Sandu for a man mountain of a goalkeeper that he actually managed to keep it to nil nil. Sunday Shingon was very, very good, Pranay Haldi was fabulous, Anirut Thapa was good and a nil nil scoreline on any day, any time of the week or month when you go to China for the very first time, you take it with both hands, won't you? Anirut Thapa is a special talent man. You look at the fact that India were missing somebody like Eugenison Lingdo and they're still trying to fill his boots. Why? Because he can lie deep, he can be a holding midfielder, he can be a creative midfielder, he can be a box-to-box midfielder because of the stamina he has, but nobody's been really able to replace him. Roland Borges came, he's got the legs, he's got the physicality, he's got the stamina but not quite Eugen, right? Pranay Haldi, very, very good player, very effective, puts in a tackle, not shy of putting his body on the line, but not Eugenison Lingdo again with all your respect to their talent and their ability. Anirut Thapa has possibly come the closest because he's a really tenacious player. He can put an tackle, he can intercept, he's a very good thinking player but I remember what Arjun said and we had this discussion as well sometime in studio where we both agreed on the fact that he likes the ball coming to him. He wants the ball at any point of the game, no matter what the game situation is, he wants to receive the ball. We've seen him do that for Chennai and FC towards the latter half of last season of the Hero ISL and we're beginning to see it in an India shirt as well. I think Stephen Constantine, to be fair to him, has spotted it very, very early on in Anirut's career which is why he gave him the captain's arm band in the SAF Cup where he essentially took it under 23 team. Subashish and Anirut Thapa were just two regular captains and getting an opportunity to captain a national team or beat in an under 23 side is a massive confidence boost and it tells you the coach believes in you and then you start translating that into your performances on the pitch. He had a decent game, I'd say Pranay Haldar was probably the better partner in midfield but Anirut Thapa set up Preetham Kotal very early on in the game just with the ability to think one step, one and a half steps ahead. The first time released Preetham Kotal in the 18 yard box, a Preetham shot had not been saved by the goalkeeper, could have been 1-0 India and not just that, the tireless work rate, the ability to go back, defend for long periods of time which takes a total on your body and then to move up with purpose, with Venom and to be able to see Sunil and Udanta on the right hand side it's going to take time for Thapa to really arrive as a midfielder but all the ingredients are right there, the vision, the ability to think a couple of steps ahead and of course wanting the ball, wanting to be a part of the action to dictate the game. That's what you want from your midfielder. Yeah, Holy Charanasi is a strange one, you know, because first of all, credit to him from where he's come, Kokrajara Sam, to make it to the national team by itself is a massive achievement. Now has he elapsed his entire ability that has been on display so far? Maybe yes, maybe we've already seen the best of him. Maybe he cannot be the prolific goal scorer who can cut in from that left wing that India need from time to time when JJ and Sunil are not scoring. But then you look at somebody like Udanta on the other wing and he's got the pace to burn of course the fastest in the team without a shadow without. He has also started creating more chances as we saw for Bengaluru FC towards the end of the ISL season. I think he had seven assists by the end of the season. So Udanta came into his own and which is why the question marks over his place went away. Which is why the question marks still hover around Harichur and Naziri's place because he's not creating enough. He's probably not assisting enough and he's certainly not scoring. So that's what creates doubt. What are the answers? Of course Lalanzu and Chanti is the most obvious answer because if you have Udanta's pace on the right and this is pace with the ball which is very different from just being quick. Chanti has that too. Chanti has plenty of pace with the ball and that's something that India could benefit a lot from. Is he as good as Naziri defensively to be able to track back to be able to follow? What Constantine wants the team to do? We don't know because he's not been tested. He got a red card I think in the semi-final of the SAP Cup. So we didn't really see what he could have done in a high pressure situation at the final. But it would have been nice to see Chanti in a big game like the one against China and hopefully we'll see him in the next friendly that happens in November. And if not Chanti then I know that he's already tried Ashik Kuruni and has the coach but I think it's got to be Chanti. It can't be Nikhil Pujari, it can't be Ashik Kuruni because it's just on pure ability. If Feliciano Naziri's place were to be taken by somebody it's got to be Chanti. And if Feliciano Naziri has to maintain his place then he's going to start creating more and certainly he needs to start scoring more. Alright, so that's it from Tiagi. He brought up some good points there I think guys. Arjun Nikhil, you want to take over from what he said about how the team is shaping up and what we can look forward to at the Asian Cup? Yeah, Siddhant, I think the first thing is that before the Asian Cup, January 2019 this is possibly the first time, first 90 minutes where we got to see what India would probably do when they take on the big boys in the Asian Cup in Qatar and what I was looking forward to in fact was the shape and the kind of strategies the team would adopt playing in the Asian Cup, how they would face China and the same things would probably replicate it going forward into the Asian Cup and I was pretty impressed man. You know of course there were a lot of times when the Chinese team breached our defence, there were some lacks how do I say lapses of concentration and defence and midfielder would have to be there. I mean let's not forget the difference, I know we were only Nikhil, what is the ranking? 25? 21 is the difference. Yeah but that doesn't tell you the real story does it because the Chinese team is way more superior than the Indian team in terms of preparation and how they've come into this game and of course what I was really impressed with was the 4-4-2 is what he adopted with the shape maintained for 90 minutes. China got clear cut opportunities but India were in the game, whatever said and done. Yeah I mean I have to be very honest when Stephen Constantine came in 2015 and I remember watching the first few games that game that they played World Cup Qualifier against Iran and it's one thing losing 3-0 but the Indian team looked like not even a semi-professional team because all they were doing was you know kick about and not actually playing a game so one doesn't really look at the score line and do you look you know a professional team that I think I didn't have too many expectations from the Constantine that team but I have to give credit when it's due what 3 years down the line this team looked like a team that can compete it looked like a team of you know 11 professionals playing and as you were saying about the shape it was impressive yes China had the chances but at no point could you say that this was a mismatch I'd say that. Not at all in fact you know when you take cues from the shape you will be putting all men behind the ball when you are kicking vs big boys like China but as soon as you get the ball they are going to break with a serious serious pace but you got Sunil Chhetri who is always running, you got J.J. Lalpak who can hold the ball and you got Udanta saying who is going to break forward now the guy who really binds the three of them together is the guy behind them that is Anurudh Thapa and if you saw in the counterattacks that they were making 1-2 touch Siddhan nothing longer than that because if you keep the ball then you are giving the Chinese opposition chance to get back into their own half take shape and defend against India which is why I feel India's best bet at the Asian Cup is still the time the opposition is still searching for that first goal because that means that they will come in your half in search of that first goal which means that when you do get the ball you have a chance to break forward and of course they will be out of shape and those three can do whatever they can do So okay fine good performance and you guys are giving a pretty positive assessment of how the team is done right Go India So go India is good but one of the things that you are talking about in this transition from largely a defensive shape where we are kind of sitting back and absorbing the pressure that the other team is throwing at us right but when you are making that transition you are doing it with these 1-2-3-4 slick ground passes right there is not a philosophy of going direct and hitting the ball into space for Udanta to get on to right so what's happening on the break or at least what I noticed on a couple of occasions was that when this break happens because Udanta has a pace to take on whoever right the ball has to either be played of a certain quality and a certain weight where he gets to it and it's still in play or their passing is good enough that they can make those little triangles and create more In fact their first real chance in the game that game courtesy of good slick 1-2 touch passing I just feel that long ball root that you are saying that can't be for Udanta because Udanta doesn't have the experience or the physicality to hold on to that long ball when he's got a physically able defender marking him I feel that long ball which has come from Gulpreet someone like Sunil Chhetri and then Udanta makes the run of them and then of course you will see what you can do also the other move I think Farooq that he missed I think that was a good pass at the end of the game so they did stitch together those three passes or create those triangles I mean it's a welcome change from what the Indian team used they knew what they were doing there was a plan and they were executing it all right so positive performers top three players for you from the Indian side I think for me would read definitely though I must add a rider to it I know Gulpreet is an outstanding game but usually that tends to happen with teams that are defending a lot I say that about Dheeraj as well nothing to take away from that young lad in the under 17 world cup but he was also made to look good because the Indian team in general had to always be soaking up that pressure that you were getting and I can similar with regards to Gulpreet because he had so many more opportunities to save it tends to make the goalkeeper look good but that our side I think those two which hit the post other than that everything else he managed to keep so I think Gulpreet brought Gulpreet to his home he will take him with him so Gulpreet for me Thapa had put as number two as you know as he was saying he was just right behind the strikers and giving them those feeds whatever little chances that he had and I'd probably go with Sunil as well as my third player he still remains the number one player and you know I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the Indian dressing room because I clearly remember when again I go back to the coach when he took over in 2015 the first training session and I went to the Ambedkar Stadium the impression I got he was three right then that is three years ago and he thought he'd create a new team three years down the line he still remains the best player that India has so and with news coming in of you know not everything well between the coaches I think he reports and to be honest I feel Constantine as a guy who likes rotating his captains and he saw that this is a good atmosphere and a good opportunity to give someone new the captaincy possibly to do him good in the long run maybe this is but there's no smoke without fire no but to say that I will stick by this that he wasn't too keen to continue with strategy at that time for very long he thought that he was down so on that at the time that he came in I think neither of the two were very keen on each other I think I'm pretty sure Sunil didn't want him to come in as the new coach and and similarly I mean the loudest most powerful voice in the dressing room I guess the one to present the most conflicting ideas to what the coach might suggest especially if I like I personally also feel that the coach himself doesn't bring any more experience at the international level to the table than a guy like Sunil does to begin with I mean if you had a coach who had played you know even at like taken three four teams to the Asian Cup or played against some of these big teams in Asia he's only played as India manager against these guys so I mean from where from Cyprus he brought that experience I don't know how much that sort of translates to the players imbibing something new or something more I in fact feel like the coaches that are coming into the clubs at the ISL stage are giving these guys a lot more confidence and technical technical sort of workouts to make sure that they can do that kind of like one touch one touch play where they are thinking of where the next man is in the larger picture and playing the ball to him and hoping that then things work out Siddhant and Nikhil I vehemently disagree I know you do but the writing is on the wall if your team qualified for the Asian Cup but the run that they've had and then to give the performance that they've done versus China you can't say the coach has had no impact on that we know what kind of game football is coach makes or breaks a team the kind of strategies you have the kind of strategies you use on the field the kind of players you want to use on the field it's all on the coach so we have to give full credit to Stephen Constantine for bringing the Indian team to where they are China the 90 minutes if I get to see the Indian team playing like that in the Asian Cup mind you irrespective of whether we lose all three games I'll be a very happy man I think the point that he was trying to make is a point taken I think he has improved I decided myself at the start from where the team was in 20 the team when he took them over to what the team is looking now the one that played in 2011 I don't want to use that word Australia Bahrain it was pretty much 5-2 I remember that game so in that sense this is a far better team but what I think the point that he is trying to make is that how do you take this so he took a very pragmatic approach against a team like China he knew at best what to do concentrate on a defense that's what we have to do correct but I am saying can he take the team forward as he mentioned there are slightly better coaches in the ISM who may have improved some of these players but the national coach is enjoying the benefit of those my point is I am not thinking ahead of the Asian Cup see I am saying whatever you want to think of the future is steep and constant think about it after their performance at the Asian Cup then you can think really take us further from here from what we have done at the Asian Cup but the point being till the Asian Cup given what he has done with the Indian team to get us to the Asian Cup and of course the way the team is playing the 2011 Asian Cup team as opposed to the team that will play in 2019 Asian Cup I know they haven't played but I feel this team is better prepared to play at the big stage I had no disagreement there my only point of view on this is that I think that that preparation comes from a more sort of professional more robust club structure in some shape and form being in place in India but a lot of it has to do with the coach 2011 when we played the Asian Cup these boys had to the national team had to spend the whole year travelling around the world playing against whoever would give them a game because they didn't have any level of competition going on I mean this time it just shows how much we have sort of moved forward that for what it's worth the establishment the authorities believe that the match practice that the boys are getting through playing in the Indian Super League because none of our players are playing abroad so they believe that that is good enough preparation or the best possible preparation that they can have to go into this tournament which in itself indicates what they think the development is do I think that it's good enough that's a separate story and we can get into it separately if we want to but I genuinely believe the national team coach has had very little to do with the way the national team is playing the good thing that he has done since you guys want to give credit where it's due is bring in a lot of new players get a much younger, fitter squad going from that point of view where his experienced guys are there Sunil is there and Sunil is the fittest guy in the team so it helps a lot or a couple of guys at the back but the players you bring on at the 70th, 75th, 80th minute are guys who will come on and have that physicality that pace to actually inject some life into the game where India usually was lacking that would be the point at which opponents would chado on us it would be interesting to actually listen to the players I mean you need to ask a Jhingan who has made him the player that he has what does he say himself he may just say it's time spent with Kerala Blaster you need to ask a Preetam Kotal who made him the player as a player, if you're talking specifically of Sandesh Jhingan when Nikhil was saying the three players that have stood out I agree with him, Thapa, Goodpreet and Sunil but Jhingan as well Jhingan was all over the place in the first 15 minutes all over the place in the first 15 minutes he was a winner for India but first 15 minutes, any common ball if he was playing long, his strikers were taking that ball easily and then the midfield from behind was getting on those runs but post the first 20 minutes then Jhingan really came into his own all the long balls that were coming in there was Jhingan who was taking on the Chinese he was not a small guy he was a pretty big tall guy and that's the kind of heart you need from him so much so that Jhingan's heart had then transferred on to Subashish as well who is not really a stalker but Subashish was also coming in for those really solid one on one tackles so that was really good to see for me and if you ask Jhingan who made him the player he will say it's a mix of ISL no one is going to disregard what the ISL has done to them because they are using modern training techniques preparing themselves as better players for the course of 6 to 7 months in a year but you cannot disregard what Stephen Constantine has done you cannot say that this man has not taken us forward see at the end of the day when you call a coach and you say what he has brought look where he has brought the team he has chosen an approach which not too many other teams have done in the past under Bob Houghton yes we were trying that long ball that didn't work for us I can guarantee you for sure going forward the long ball route will not be the only route you got my point the counter route will be the route where you play it on the ground because you understand that the boys can play it on the ground we don't have a long ball game we have 5 feet, 6 feet, 5 feet, 7 feet so where will we play? we can discuss this the whole day you are speaking about 24 hours football channel yeah Sky Sports News you are talking about football but anyway your 3 players Nikhil said same as Nikhil, I am just adding Sandesh I think he was the tower of a player because only he grew into the game and then once he grew into it he didn't leave it and that's beautiful to see so a quick question on the subject of goalkeepers one what did you guys make of Gurpeet's decision making in terms of coming out and grabbing balls 6 foot 5 there are some of those balls up played into the box that maybe he should you know be more in control of come out, come off his line a little bit faster and just grab it in this match actually this I think was a criticism that came Gurpeet's way before this match and I would agree with you I thought I saw an improvement in this particular match he did those I think it's more about confidence whether you really want to go for the ball I thought that he was a little more confident this time going forward and he did go in for those you know balls which could have been like 50-50 situation he did go for them I saw an improvement in him in this match compared to how Gurpeet's been in previous matches he is a tower of a goalkeeper man 6 feet 5 and of course no player is the perfect player you are right man in the past also we have seen Gurpeet not coming out and catching those balls instead he is going for the punch but there is nothing wrong with it man talking on the goalkeepers is one more topic on the team where if in the 11th that we saw playing right now because Subashish has come in for Anas I think Anas will come in for Subashish in the playing 11 if there is one spot in the playing 11 that is still up for grabs that I feel is Holly Charan Naziri on the left wing optimal feet so one player who I feel can come in there because we still have about 6 months for the Asian Cup less than that no we have 2 months man summer is over now for Delhi Dynamos the reason I think the coach is going with Naziri because of his work rate Naziri will go up and Naziri will go back so the shape will be maintained he is a little scared with Chante because the international football at the senior level has not played but the beauty of Chante is going to compliment you going forward in those small passes he is not afraid of taking on players what do you make of JJ you thought he was a bit off the ball JJ is a bit off the ball but the thing is JJ is doing what only JJ can do and no other player in the team can do that is hold the ball with his back to the ball no one else can do it there is no other striker I mean people talk about Balwant Singh but I still feel JJ is way ahead and if you see in this game also he holds the ball for 2 seconds those 2 seconds the value in the football like we saw in the china game that those outlet passes and the chance on goal might well come from an overlapping wing back whether it is Pritam on this side or Narayan on the other side or whoever manages to get into that position but the way space will open up it is that player likely to have that across goal kind of opportunity what did you make of do you think that these boys are capable our fullbacks are capable of sort of tackling that attacking responsibility yeah I mean I think to play that sort of football it takes years I would imagine I don't think they have the pace also to do that that may not be the best way for India to go forward I mean just looking at how a football has been there over the years the best way for you to play was maybe the long ball that you were saying maybe some triangles up in the front but I do not see your left or your right back overlapping Danny always will take a long time for India to develop no having said that but the first real chance for India in that game came from Pritam Kotala Odantai had come inside Pritam came in and the goalkeeper made a good save having said that you won't see that too often in a game no no but often often means more than 2 or 3 shots we are not going to get in the whole game what you are talking about overlap often nothing is going to happen that will not happen on the counter that will happen when you keep the ball in possession and then of course that boy from the wing comes inside and the fullback comes outside and you take your players with you and I think Constantine understands that and that is the beauty of the approach that you understand your limitations and you play according to that next time we do this you have to get permission from your employers for us to bring in some of the footage so that we can do little bit of analysis and actually talk on that basis but... no bro I was saying thousands of crores so let's make a diagram type we will handle it we will understand it anyway I think we will be talking quite frequently about how the team gets on between now and the Asian Cup Nikhil I don't know how much time you will have to join us so in case we don't chat again do you want to give us a prediction or how you see the team doing at the Asian Cup and will you be there will you be in the crowd sort of cheering boys on he is planning to go definitely planning to go but I think India will make the cut you think they will make the cut make the cut means go through to the next round I tell you why ranking is not the best you are a unique host now so that's what I am saying so they will go through Thailand is the fastest improving team in Asia I mean the best way to look at it India ranked higher than Thailand at the moment India is also ranked higher than Bahrain at the moment you never know I mean I am going to Bahrain in 2011 but then from Parts 2 it was fun it was fun in the stadium it was fun I am not looking at the Indian team qualified I don't care looking at how they perform over the course of these three games whether you lose when doesn't make a difference for me because we are not at that level we are going to a tournament and we are thinking we will qualify you need to play these tournaments on a regular basis once you start playing them on a regular basis can you say ok now we will qualify now we will play the quarter finals once we reach the blue moon you can't expect the blue moon but you have now qualified second time in 3 editions 2nd time in 3 editions we will expand when India doesn't fit we will make a little more it will be 34 to 32 then it will be 48 we will come from somewhere we will have 48 teams 7 and a half teams qualified from Asia but you know what not just the senior team somewhere or the other I think we sort of understood a blueprint of how to prepare for a big tournament whether it be the under 16 boys whether it be the under 17 boys or the senior team somewhere or the other we are not shooting in the dark now we have reached there play a long game and you will see a little blueprint has come and the ISL of course has played a big part in that the players are interacting with big players big managers and slowly slowly coming so we are into 4 years or 5th year of the ISL we are into the year 5 of ISL year 10 of the ISL then you see where the national team is for all the criticism that ISL gets I would have to say that it has really helped me football you can clearly see it that exposure just one thing I wanted to say I thought because we were discussing I just said this morning we were discussing India and China I don't know if any of you read that the CCC TV that commentators quote and he said after the match that he saw India versus China and he said that I can't believe that you know almost how many is that how many billion is that he said with 3 billion we can produce these 30 players it's just like such a travesty to see these 30 players play for a total of 3 billion people so that is just putting into perspective where what are we talking about actually he is right he is not a very positive person which is why I invited him on the chat today I think I began positively the CCC TV yeah there is no point comparing to the best in the world yeah and with that with those two perspectives one is where we actually are and the other that we it will take 10-15-20 years for us to become a team that is exciting to talk about and fun to watch and follow until then it will be a lot of hard hard miles for the fans on the road to cover but it will be fun and we will keep these chats going thanks guys for joining us thank you just send us a payment yeah in kind when we will meet next time so we will keep this football conversation going guys thanks for joining us today and talk to you soon