 I just have to dark welcome back to another unfiltered and uncensored conversation with young alumni of historically black colleges and universities I am happy to be back with you the real person in charge of the hits Tiff proud to be thrown off the show. Thank you for standing in As well as you could for a brother Eric line brother KD As well as you could enjoy my time in Hawaii beautiful Hawaii and have reemerged Back in love of sorts with the sector. So glad to be back with you We jump into tonight's conversation with the big news of the week Howard University And there are several big items, but this was the biggest one because I think it has the the closest impact to what People on the campus will see and feel as a result of leadership and that is wow Eric changes Screen save the whole of his nose Howard University has announced that they will phase out over the next several years of its students faculty and alumni trustee seats on its board of trustees The logic behind this is that Is two-fold number one? Officials say that it will give them an opportunity to reach a broader cross-section of folks from these different Stakeholder groups as they look to meet with them to have opportunities to engage And to and to hear concerns from these groups and they're not going to be marginalized to just one vote on the board The second part of this is and this was a key element of their release on the information We want all of our trustees to be five do shit Fiduciary Responsible members of the school meaning if you ain't paying you can't sit here So I would ask let's go round robin tip. We started it is your alma mater How do you feel about Howard announcing that there is at some point? No more utility for student faculty and alumni representation directly in the form of a vote on board First of all, I Get it when when I read that they want people who will be People who have a fiduciary responsibility, but that's a little that's a little rude Because in some form of fashion students are paying Alumni have paid the cost to have that degree day. My degree is downstairs They don't pay something somebody has paid somebody has signed on somebody's line to pay for that Howard degree So that's one second thing is in that Release they talked about how they had an external firm conduct a review and the biggest problem that I have with that in particular is That people who are external people who don't understand people who are not of the experience They don't know anything And so they're they're Understanding their opinion it really doesn't matter. We all know what it feels like to have somebody try to tell you about you And so that's what really came through For me and to see oh, yeah, we'll figure it out as we go along how we're going to incorporate students faculty and Alumni, but you didn't present a plan, you know, we want to see a plan if you have presented a Well-thought-out plan instead of just oh, we'll get to when we get to it people probably would not be as upset I'm lying. They will still be upset, but like come on You know, I'm saying y'all don't want to see a plan y'all gonna be mad at this no matter what y'all matter That's about it. I will say husa the Howard University Student Association they put out a Timeline of how all this happened and I think it that was very interesting because It was seen that what they're saying happened and what the university said happened are two different things So two different perspectives of engagement with the actual students on what we're talking about versus. Yes, what they did so Yes, so They say from March 16 2020 the university announces online instruction will take place for the remainder of the spring 2020 semester Then it says during fall 2020 and spring 2021 Husa Executive Senate and Elections Commission contacted administration regarding the quote pause on the affiliate trustee position Students were met with limited and inconclusive responses. So that means that There wasn't an active Conversation investigation like what that release said happened over time I mean in their view and I don't know I don't mean to disparage what what their experience of the conversation was But you know the board I Guess in my mind and and brothers I'm gonna get to you for sure in my mind what a board is going to do to itself And this is a private board What a board is gonna do to and for itself Not to say that it is not the concern of the stakeholders they serve but there there's nothing You can do about it Legally, they're responsible for for assigning on the data line to say if this school goes under I'm responsible for it Yes, if this if we get sued I'm putting my name on the road to be sued along with it So, you know that sounds good That sounds good. And I think that there there is something to be said about engagement with stakeholders Katie I'll come to you next but at the same time. I mean to your point Tiffany about people on the outside and external You know Consultants or whatever. There's a whole bunch of people who serve on boards who didn't graduate didn't take classes Who didn't teach and to that point I? Get that but also As somebody who who obviously works in higher ed and at an HBCU and thinking about people who actually do have skin in the game Who do have that financial responsibility that that? Institutional responsibility it is different the pressure is different so I do get the university's decision on on that end But as we've seen in the last two weeks people who do have a responsibility They can also decide to do whatever they want as well and sometimes it is to the detriment of the institution so if this is also a decision that was made to have closed Have a closed or more private Less than transparent Transactions of the board. Oh, you're there. That's on brand for that's on brand for a private school I this this call space bait Katie. What do you think? First thought this is how a business Let the Howard community deal with it the way that they deal with it Right any opinion outside of a Howard student or alumni or faculty? Doesn't really matter but Disappointed a little bit because especially removing the student voice They are the ones that are affected. These are not high school students These are not elementary school students. These are college students. They're young adults and the ones that are speaking for the university Understand what's going on the day-to-day and they do indeed deserve a voice or see that that table in my honest opinion Somebody who used to serve as a senator cop state university. Sorry We got to affect change on campus in real time year to year So I I firmly believe that it's okay to have the students there The other stipulation or having a first a fiduciary responsibility does make sense on its face So I won't I won't batch that too much right because again, you do want people that's invested financially But yeah Beyond that You don't think that it's something that that HBCU's at large could take interest in because I got a couple of texts Not many but a few On the subject of okay. Well, this this makes sense when you think about it this way And Howard is one of those schools I think when they do something other people take a look at it and say maybe that could work for us, too If I'm a private, I do think that some people will try this model And that there's nothing that we could do about it because again, we complain about boards on this part All the time I think our biggest enemy isn't really the university president at the time. It's the board I don't have any enemies. We don't have any enemies Opposition Most stable body in our community. That's the thing that really has not changed over the past 20 change right give or take right so In that regard, I hear you because yeah privacy if I'm a private school and I have a seat at the table I'll be worried if my seat was in jeopardy I'll be doing things to make sure that I get to keep my seat if it means something to me But for the public schools not so much because they're beholding the states, right and their politics Winston you work with an organization that works with a board. Um, what do you think about that that kind of Reorganization where certain I guess perspectives of certain ideas Are are no longer filtered through the usual you have a vote you have a voice at the table Yeah, no, you know for you know for us the board kind of drives everything and you make to I think with somebody I don't know if you said it or credit but like sometimes you're not even involved in that Situation, you know, I mean you kind of just doing what happens as a result of those conversations and and those meetings and you're not privy to it So it's not really a foreign perspective, you know As far as I'm concerned and it's just I know that that happens sometimes I think that you know, like we said Howard being a private institution. It's kind of its own Thing in a different way of approaching it I don't you know the way that they worded it in the in the release that was put out and in those things like You gave you gave the impression or gave room to say like we're not saying that the that there won't be a voice for the students Who are there they're just not going to be don't have a seat at the table to say the to say the least but You know, I think it's interesting because we talk a lot also on this show about how nobody's in the It completely, you know, we're good as far as financial is concerned and as far as you know The the futures of institutions like we're all trying to make sure that things are where they should be and figure it out And you know, Howard is kind of I think doing what Howard would be expected to do Shake things up a little bit do some things different than maybe everybody else is doing Finding a different way to navigate if it works it works if it doesn't then maybe there's an opportunity to re-evaluate that And I do think that the student body There if there's a period of time that goes by where they don't feel like they're getting Resolved from that or they have a problem with it or you know alumni or are engaged to the point of They're going to make a think about it. They'll they'll speak up. They'll they'll do what they do So, I mean, I think Howard is also doing what it's supposed to do in the space of figuring out what they think is going to make sense for them and doing something that's going to shake the table A little bit because the reality is it's not going to be you're not going to go status quo Something's going to have to change you have to look at things and evaluate differently So I think they're doing what you would think they would do and by all intensive purposes They're considered leaders in the sector and one of the leading institutions or whatever So they're going to do things to kind of make it a little See what happens and make it a little bit different And I think you know, they're I think they're allowed the space to do so. I'm again like to Katie's point I'm not a Howard alum. I'm sure my you know, those perspectives are different but from outside looking in I feel like they have an opportunity to examine whether or not this makes sense And that's what I think they're doing. So I think you kind of got to do that Eric the critical part of this conversation And I sure Tiffany wouldn't debate this is that it's one of those moves that At a school which is has a culture that is very very much driven by conspiracy and quote-unquote lack of transparency by the board Where people feel like the board says and does things And the campus doesn't know there's like this unseen hand that kind of moves and shapes Howard in a very specific way And you know to stop that we're going to run up in a building to stop that we're going to badmouth you online Do you think that that feeds to that that that the board is moving in secrecy as usual this is on brand for Howard The board don't move in secrecy The board does what they're going to do in your face That's my sense, but a lot of people don't feel that way But see I think I think the and this is now you saw conspiracy theory. I think Howard actually has two boards I don't know. Hear me out. Hear me out. This is gonna sound crazy, but hear me out Is the board you know and then it's the actual board Which is where Howard's majority of their annual budget comes from I mean If I knew if I was an entity and I was dumping 300 something million into a school on a yearly basis I'd probably have some input on what's going on Well, the secretary of education is an ex officio member of the board and whoever's sitting in that seat serves as that There's a board and then there's another board But that but you know what bro that makes sense that makes sense and that and every hbcu has that And every every has that right there's a board that sits there at the board table And then there's your biggest donor There is probably your biggest industrial counterpart in the city Who can make calls and say you know what I want to see this happen. So you're right, but to howards point about Saying we don't need we don't need these particular elements of the board anymore Or we feel that they're not helping us repel forward Does that help or hurt the notion that that at howard people feel and have long felt This institution doesn't want everybody involved in its decision-making. No, it's okay. Yes, it does support that notion, right? But also There is literally no institution doesn't matter what type of institution it is who actually Like the thought process of an alumni board member Or a student board member It's like giving it's like making Juneteenth a federal holiday explain it It's it's throwing The it's throwing the public a bone essentially up front when honestly people really don't care That they're doing it. It just looks good in the public eye Right can't take off Nancy Pelosi. Exactly what It's just like that It's just like that, right? So so the thought process of Oh, you're taking these positions away because and now they affect something Let's ask a serious question and it's going to be rude, but it is what it is For your for your own alma mater's anybody listening to this show What exactly has your student or and or alumni board of trustee member Actually impacted that has taken place on campus and I mean seriously Because half the time the people who vote for them They ain't like I went to udc I was involved with sga and udc the person who ended up becoming like the student Board of trustee member Like why did people vote for him? Like ask yourself about that at any institution. It's not really right Quite to your point Eric. I hate you. You're right But it does serve a second purpose as well You get the information first hand That so that's the other so that I was actually going to get to that. So that's that's where the issue probably comes in that I would be very scared if I was a Howard student or a student from any other institution because The leaks won't happen like they used to There's less information that's going to get out there But let me throw something at you though Tiffany. I see we're coming to you next I don't believe as a student I didn't experience this and I don't think it's going today. I don't think the students are leaking like that anyway For two reasons number one. Maybe not to the body at large Right. It's never been that that trustees even before social media or even with social media would get on twitter instantly And say guess what they in here doing we don't they wouldn't do they wouldn't do that They wouldn't do that. That's all we're saying when you sit in that sga meeting and you're trying to do things on campus You need to know why you can't Right And and that's what they're losing. They're gonna start losing battles as students because they don't have information They were already taken else. I mean, it's not like According to them now you can compromise and there there is an opportunity for zero compromise to happen It may seem like a small thing right now But it could snowball to a point where you have a contentious relationship between the students on campus and your faculty Now the students at Howard were just in the a building a couple years ago. Tiffany It's already contentious go ahead listen, but Here goes. He goes the one thing though Here's the point that I will give to anybody who is within Howard And I'm not a Howard alumni, but I'll give my opinion anyway For all the we want people to be fiduciary Lee, you know involved I would ask For the donation papers Of the people who have been sitting on the board at Howard Or for them to actually Quantify and qualify What they have done to improve the institution in their time and sitting in that position Because if you're going to now hold a standard of People being Involved with the with the bettering of the institution on in a fiduciary space Then from the top you need to emulate exactly what you are expecting of people in those roles And it's a point Tiffany. What are you gonna say we close us out? two things first The h-book exists The handbook exists, I don't know what that is The handbook exists If you know your rights as a student if you know the rights Of the university and its officials Which everybody has access to Then you know how to conduct yourself, but do you take the time to do it? That's a whole other thing they didn't say anything specifically about the husa constitution being changed the bylaws the the us UG uh the undergraduate student assembly Or anything else being changed until we get to that point seriously where they start attacking um The powers of student government in that manner I wouldn't be too concerned. I will say that when you disenfranchise people You also have to know that since you disenfranchise them, they're going to do what they have to do So I think how we're just to close it out. I think they oh your second thing Second thing second thing is dang you interrupted me. I can't remember. Can I remember? Oh second thing y'all said the leaks y'all think the leaks won't happen the leaks the leaks gonna happen The the leaks are gonna happen. Yes, Jared. And you know what I'm talking about a few years ago I got this email with all this Jared knows what I'm talking about. I swear to you I swear to y'all Jared says has sworn he didn't do it. He did not send it. It was not him It was not me It was not me came from somebody and it had all the information in it and it came And I said, I don't have all the information. But what I'm saying is I think that It To the point that we've been talking about for years trustees being co-opted by interest That happens more with those particular those particular seats alumni students faculty get bullied into positions all the time They get they get bribed into positions all the time Let's not play games like that. Those were not seats that were swinging boats On critical measures to begin with They were there to support a close measure, which is typically something to say. Here's what we're gonna do about Somebody with tenure or something. We're gonna do with somebody with um, you know Something on fee increases or something on on building a building if something was closed I'ma I'ma lean on that student to do what I wanted to do We're not talking about, you know Measure hiring and firing a president You don't you don't see students faculty and an alumni swinging that if they're gonna do that They're gonna do that publicly as a group. They're not gonna do it as one but one voice on the board But anyway, it is interesting to see how that may progress into something That shapes policy at a lot of institutions Um, because I think that Howard opens the door for a lot of schools to say if you're not paying you can't play And if you are representing a stakeholder group You may or may not have an interest that represents the school as a whole As I wrote the other night faculty can't vote against their they shouldn't vote against their interests You do something to build a new student center and a whole bunch of adjuncts get laid off with faculty for that Right or a student is up there. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna marginalize student services So you can hire more faculty or create more endowed positions What student is going to vote for that and then go back and tell the students say yeah, I just screwed this over It's not that's not gonna happen. So no No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna tell you what actually happens And we actually may have talked about it before The board says you got student loans, right? Well, I'll get rid of all those if you go ahead with this boat And they are doing that So let's not say get like what's student going for that listen There were there's a many of people who will sit here and be like I gotta get mine like y'all gotta get yours and they gonna they're gonna take care of mine. So I'm gonna do what I gotta do this for them to take care of mine Getting mine sexes us perfectly into the next topic Mackenzie Scott Yesterday another round of giving 2.7 billion dollars to 200 plus organizations This go around none of them were historically black institutions now Let me take a moment to to Get some off my chest real quick. So I post this on facebook, right? And I got like 15 or 16 comments and I read them Um, because I care about what folks say And my impression is that until you prove me otherwise that you're pretty smart But the overwhelming reaction to this post was why are you putting this out? This isn't news. This is negative Why don't you just be thankful for what she gave before? Uh, why is this it? Why why is this even a story must be a slow news day? And I'm sitting up here thinking It's not newsworthy that a lady who Of the six billion dollars that she's given 10 percent of that has gone to hbc us and it's got some 600 million dollars She's given in theory to all hbc us but specifically the 23 institutions But all of them by way of uncf and tmcf gifts And it's not news that in the third time she's done it when the previous two she has the third time She doesn't that's not news. Maybe I'm asking you guys Am I tripping is that news worthy to mention that somebody who's given hundreds of millions of dollars to hbc us? Getting this time around it didn't say that she wouldn't do it again It didn't offer an opinion on is this the end of mckinsey scott's love affair with hbc us It was just to say she didn't give anybody anything this time So if anybody read the blog post that she put out and in the article that was in I'm not the new york times cbs news something like that Something about how they have she has the whole board of people to like, you know Do our research do these things and did every hbc you get an individual donation? No If they didn't to me that would mean it might be newsworthy Because that means maybe your institution if it's your beloved institution has an opportunity to do something to land on the radar of kenzie scott So that if no other reason than that it would be newsworthy I was just surprised that people were almost like saying shut up like don't talk about this be grateful for all that she's given And that therein lies a problem Eric you look equisical what what what's your reaction to one the school's not getting any money this time around and two people saying hush up because She gave some money to us before If your school ain't getting much paid by mckenzie scott yet. You need to go complain to people that's leading your school So should we talk about schools that have not Because this is not even a brand conversation no more right And that's see and here goes a problem too often when it comes to our hbc us We rank them jane's based upon what our idea of them is based on their branding, right? But there's a lot of schools that have great brands That like the strike from the top that ain't getting nothing in their pockets, but we will sit here and talk about Okay, that's that's who their competitors are Why they up there? They're moving to the swag 14 they ban All this other stuff who complaining what you mad for I just got back at y'all spicy It now look they could come at me. I don't care. You ain't doing it. No I'll be the one What is that just them It's a whole bunch of hbc us. It's a hundred and what hundred and four that are so open in 101 say a hundred now 100 Listen A quarter of them got money, which means But okay, oh tip you go ahead There is a lesson in it because one She can spend her money having she want to spend her money. We see that She paid a cost to be the boss. That's all her. That's one. Wait. How about To She didn't give money to hbc use this go around That should teach us all Right detract came up on this this this third go around we came up with We did This go around should teach us as hbcu alum advocates influencers supporters that You still must give we still have the needs You can't count on somebody that's rich rich and White to do what we need to do for ourselves anybody was ever counting on her because it's so arbitrary how she does it No, but in the sense that If you thought that she would give again if we're saying that hey, she didn't give what I thought when I was reading that was This is all the more reason why we need to increase our own giving increase our own Time that we give or in kind things that we do to grow our institutions. Not that damn she ain't give again No, because it doesn't matter what it does matter that she gives but it shouldn't be New to the point where or if she doesn't give news to the point where it's like disappointing No, you need to know you first you think I shouldn't have covered it because people are saying why would you like this up? No, no That's not what I'm saying I like that you did because what I'm saying that enables me to say what I'm saying now I need to take from that That a you still need to give we not getting another however many millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars just Out the sky. We're not getting that. We didn't get it this time around. We still need y'all thirty dollars sis Is it gonna be paypal a check or cash app, you know, what's it gonna be? Do you think it sends a bad signal katie? Do you think that it's like, uh, oh, you know, she gave the first two times and gave handsomely Um, and actually increased from time number one to time number two It was only about what six or seven schools the first time and then she went to about 14 or 15 the second time So, you know in total, I think it's 27 individual institutions that she's given to and Thurger Marshall and uscf. So she's given all of them in theory. She's given all of them But in terms of individual gifts, there are still as eric mentioned florida and the university hasn't gotten one South Carolina state southern Texas southern is a whole bunch of stick It's a whole bunch of state schools That haven't received it. So is it a bad some signal? um If you haven't gotten it yet, um, but it didn't come through in this third round and no hbc You did you think that the well is dry or this is just a particular focus area this time around so, um Is it a bad signal? Not really because it's philanthropy Philanthropy is unpredictable people care about what they care about it when they care about it And we just have to accept that for what it is I will say this if you're telling me that she has a research team Clearly, she can't be an expert on their entire higher education field overnight Especially with the large amount of gifts that she's given clearly. She's just not going to spend this money on her Nobody in their right mind would take billions of dollars and just start tossing it everywhere just because they can Right at least not, you know in good faith Um, so she's trusting her team and our team is giving her information And so let's treat her money like she's investing in the schools And so she's giving it a year or two to see what kind of return on investment that she gives Let me see what you did with the money Um, and let me see how many students we graduate. Let me see what type of employees we create Let me see what type of citizens come out of this and then, you know, if I like what I see on the back end I'll give again and then let's not underscore the political part of this as well um Joe Biden use language And so maybe she's following the language that Joe Biden's using Right, maybe these round of schools went to msi So hey, they have a large amount of black people there. So the school needs some money too It was a whole bunch of cal California schools and texas schools in that this time eyes Correct So I wonder I wonder if if if if folks were saying or maybe not folks close to her But at least folks in her orbit were saying that's enough of the black folks This time around now it's not to say that's because there are other organizations that you get to that support You know black causes and black people Um, but I wonder if the the outward Winston was to say, okay, let's be a little more Diverse in what we're doing I hate that word I I get you I get you but as you said as you said, Detroit Detroit came up this time Detroit got a lot a lot of good organizations Right. Detroit has no HBC. There's a lot of black people. So you can't it's difficult to make the proposition like, okay What's going on here before you go to Winston one more point To the idea if it's bad. Let's just state that it is bad It's because we have a branding issue the other 78 schools We have a branding issue. You need to fix your brands. It may not be their brand Listen or a programming issue. It's not programming. Let me explain Let me um, this is going to be rude, but this goes back to the school. I was mentioning earlier You can't trust your own alma mater to actually handle their regular budget You expected me to allow them To dictate how they spend in Millions is dropping they laugh Oh god Some of y'all schools are messing around and see the whole board pull up in furs at homecoming and y'all still got the same The same resources. Don't don't say that Listen, we talk about us We listen we can't tell the truth about us. We can't tell the truth I'm not saying that we are like that but listen Like it ain't necessarily branded today programming It's about the fact that some of y'all can't handle if she had given money to To that school that we ain't gonna mention Down that's trying to get back into the group of group of schools that they and they ain't been open for it for real for the last 17 years When she had given money to them we looked at her like you out of your mind I'm looking at everybody else that gives them money like that. But hey, I understand it. I understand it It's a it's a branding thing within itself how you give and to whom you give But I would also say there are some good schools That may not be on her radar Just because her people may not be that familiar for example tip got on the shirt Paul Quinn Paul Quinn is coming up now you there might be a metric where they say, okay Well, how many students do you have? Paul Quinn has stable leadership. Paul Quinn has been fundraising. Paul Quinn has been in local and national news for years But Paul Quinn doesn't yet have a thousand students Fisk University fisk is coming up, but they've not had leadership stability They just had a changeover. They just got a new president This guy's a a a time tested brand But as long as old as that brand is it's also connected with financial instability So you can never tell what the what the formula is for her and her team But you can I guess you can kind of draw some conclusions, I guess And you wonder like how much of is this tied to how you know, how what does your trajectory look like? What does your trajectory look like? So I have no clue. I wish I had insight but It is interesting to see that some schools with big brand Big historic brand haven't gotten it yet and schools that have been victimized by states Like a South Carolina state like a southern university They struggle not just because of internal incompetence as a part of it But they struggle mildly because of what the state is doing to them on purpose So not Tennessee State Carolina school got in A&T they got in the first time around. What's the sale on state was the sale state got it But central didn't get it central has been stable Central has been growing. So you you don't you really don't know the rhyme or reason to go in um, I was Just going to push back a little bit on what you were saying about Paul Quinn like I mean If if their enrollment is under not if their enrollment being under A thousand isn't necessarily bad if they're still in the black with it Like I think I took the other day When I was watching the president of shorter talk about shorter To be in the black not in debt they need 300 or so students they have 600 right. So like I think that depends and I think that's a conversation to have When we talk about what we need as individual institutions and as and as a collection That's something that we have to explain to potential supporters who outside of Of the experience and outside of the community we operate differently But I think that that's a tough That's a tough conversation because I don't think anybody would walk out even to their stakeholders and say We're in good financial position Because we have double the amount of students it takes to run the institution So because at the end of the day anybody would look at the school With 300 to 600 students and say that school looks like it's struggling Looks like and they could not be struggling Paul Quinn is not struggling at all But from outer outer perspectives when you I guess when you think about traditional higher education There are people who would say, you know Okay, good for them, but I my high school my high school is bigger than y'all The majority of traditional higher education is they don't they don't know they don't they don't know any better They don't know any better. And so how do you educate them? Winston? And I and I think this is this is this is particularly to to a program like midnight golf where you could say hey, we work with students from some really under resource Communities and some students that are going to underperform in high schools But they're great. Take a look at them. Take a look at their scores. Take a look at their gpa Take a look at their activities. Take a look at their extracurriculars But how difficult is it to make that case? I think this is what we're talking about with mckinsey sky And we're asking who gets money who doesn't How do we how do you explain the formula? How do you work against the algorithm? How do you showcase good when the algorithm reads it and says bad? Yeah, no, I think you have to look at, you know, like you said It's it's difficult to answer the question to to to go against that But what we talk a lot about with parents and and supporters of young people when we're in this space is Look at what that school is done with students like yours So, you know, let's maybe you got a student who's a high before we got a nice gpa low test score But paul quinn's like hey, we'll take a chance on that young person We'll give him an opportunity because that's what that's what we're about That's the mission of our institution, you know, you look at like a classman who you know Claflin's not Howard, but Claflin is a great private school, you know That most people from Detroit or Chicago or wherever they don't know they're not familiar with it But you talk to them about look what opportunities your young person could have at a smaller institution like that Look at what they've done with what they get like what comes out of those institutions, you know Based on what they get from their pool that they're they're pulling from So just to make sure that you look at it in full context in full scope So to your point like, you know, we don't know the level of understanding that mckinsey's Group that she's put together has of the sector of, you know Students of color particularly of our institutions in this space, which is again why it was a relevant thing for you to to bring up Because to me, I think it speaks to you know making sure that everybody because I think I would even argue that those of us Who are who are knowledgeable in the sector to a certain extent still don't understand, you know How the different layers of even our institutions And then you know that you know the difference between, you know A gremlin or a Winston say a little more like a sort of Claflin and Howard and and how, you know Finding a young person particularly for us who could fit who fits in that in that in that bill But you have to understand the the playing field to be able to say what makes sense and why, you know So you could look at the graduation rates at philander smith and say that's not a good school Like, you know, they're graduating 27% but wait a minute They let they're letting in kids with you know 1.7 at a 1.8 coming out of high school put them in the summer bridge program giving them additional supports Putting things in place that they know those kids need to be successful And you might have half of them that end up being on dean's list And then but in that half of you might lose two or three who just weren't able to make but again Because those institutions are have different missions and understandings It's making sure that they're educated on the sector making sure that they know What it is and that there's value in those in those institutions I mean, I got the kings for never Dang Understanding the value in those things and like I said I think that it may it's probably going to be tasked with people like us to to try to talk about Those things so that those who are not as educated on it can say, okay Here's a different way to look at it I didn't think about it that way or yeah If there is there's all these layers to the sector and the institutions to be able to see that there's value No matter where you sit in there Let's move to another another topic real quick And I'm gonna throw a curveball because we were supposed to talk about how american airlines is is changing Some of its flights up to accommodate an hbc classic jackson say versus florida and them this fall But some news breaks today about google giving Tens of millions of dollars to several hbc use and I just want to get a quick round of horn on this fair or foul Given the the the coverage that we've done on this show And a lot of folks have talked about in terms of google Mistreating black black women black students hbc use students Is this is this is this an opportunity to grow the institution with the institutions are happy to take Or is this hush money kd your computer your computer science go? Oh Wow, so google we get what you're doing here. You're playing a political game like making june 10th a federal holiday That's not what we asked for Take your money because we need it right. You know, we need it. You know, we need okay We'll take it but we actually pipeline to employment We ask you to support our babies when they get there Right, and then we ask just for a fair shot to climb the ladder once we get into your institution That's what we asked for that is what that young woman was asking for to not be harassed because she's black In tech this money that you're giving the hbc use does not fix that issue But yes, we'll take it because we need it and you know, we need it and it's good coverage Congratulations, you got you you got your coverage. That's the headline and you Not that they gave it. You know that we need it. We can't turn it down Right, but you know You still have a problem with how you treat We don't even know how many of those employees that are black Um came from hbc use we still don't know that right So but of the black people that you have that we still know that you mistreat them and you haven't fixed that That's why people are still leaving and going to other places Tiffany you and I both still have gmail accounts. Do you feel like a hypocrite as I do? We're still using google products Um, nah, I don't feel like a hypocrite. Um, primarily because You're black in america. Do you run a black institution? black church Black anything we all got strange bit fellow. So like Is this I'm sorry for 2004, you know, like I see it the is this is so is is this I'm sorry for 2004, you know, is this the result of Let's say for lack of a better phrase settlement. Um what Okay, but if if you violate again, which you know Is is sometimes the the What's on the menu or most of the time for us being black? Um, what you giving more money? Is this is this absolution? This is not absolution probably you think google ain't got enough That's number one number two. Why would you live it that way? You're so happy to take it We can't turn it down We're so happy to know we can't turn it down, but I and know we can't even Or we do turn it down and we we just we ain't got it We say no, everybody stops donating. Yep, that's true too Eric you could Do you have anything to offer or you just are you is this podcast sponsored by kings for charcoal? So listen And this is going to make it real simple in the plane tiffany's is 100 correct. We not turn it down on money But because tiffany's correct This is why organizations do exactly what they do It's easier to ask for forgiveness With a blank check Than it is to do right by people up front I mean it could be worse I mean They could have just said you know what let's make a let's let's make a new um A new picture for a whole for the whole month To commemorate what we did wrong about these people On the google website, right? I mean that's about the same thing that the federal government just did while I can Juneteenth the federal holiday so You know representation like hey, we see you Enjoy that like that's that's pretty much what happened. Hey We see that we did see you did you wrong? Here's enough money. Will you now shut up about it? That's essentially what they hit what they're doing The sad part about this is I believe that google executives and higher ups want to do the right thing But two things are problematic one. They don't know how they don't have relationships with hbcu So you can't find one quality student from another and and and to be able to distinguish Okay, how do we deploy talent and resources to these different campuses to get the best out of these students? We know how to do it at stanford. We know how to do it at harvard and mit and all those places We don't know how to do it with you guys And number two is not the higher up execs though. No, but that that's what I was going to say That's the other problem the executives probably Want to do right if for nothing else in public relations But it's the mid managers It's the mid managers that say I can't work with these Negroes They don't know anything. They don't know how to code. They can't do this They can't do that. Why you keep sending me these people. It's don't go take go take some time off I know you're experiencing racism. That's a mental health issue. It's like, you know the overseers look look I cannot excuse folks institutions that have The monies because you have money to get right You have money to properly train your people so that they know better so that you don't have problems like this You have the monies. Okay. So to that point that is a good point. Go ahead. Katie because I'll follow up you Tiffany's point You couldn't have all this money that you just packaged and gave away to hbcu and created a sector In your in your company that is all peat wolf color that could fix this problem And that would have been this Six figure employees Do it again look and give them a team then it just cash out hbcu's once right look first off You're right. We can't afford to not take the money. That's the thing. But what we can say is Google shame on you shame during during pride month because the sister april curley shout out to the lgbtq community She is of that community y'all gonna do this during pride month in her face shame on y'all y'all gonna hit it with the jaffy jopher How much do you need to to take it off of your play? Y'all are dirty