 Hey everyone, this is Dr. Ruscio. I'm here today with Travis Baird who's had some pretty good results with the healthy gut healthy U protocol and he was kind enough to take a moment and share your story with us so Travis Thanks for being with us today. Sure. Can you tell people a little bit about your I guess your road up to healthy gut How are you and then we'll go from there? I had three major symptoms loose tools bloating and gas and these I had for As long as I can remember really it got to the point to where loose tools turn into fairly frequent diarrhea and The gas got to be something that was it was Incomvenient to say the least so I started to look more and more into Is this normal and what could be causing these symptoms? That's I listened to a lot of podcasts. So I think I first heard you on the mind poke podcast and And that led me to listen to your podcast and That's about the time that the gut book came out the healthy gut healthy you so I thought this is great This is exactly what I'm looking for something that I can read that Will kind of guide me through the process. There's so much information. It's very easy to get quickly confused in which direction you should go so I started the the process outline of the book the Great Nate and I Did the the fasting for four days the first time I've ever done that I Tried a few of the different diets the paleo the low five map and at that point I didn't experience any kind of Noticeable improvement From any of the diets or the fasting. I was kind of just back in the same spot so I proceeded to go through the anti-mike micro microbial step and When I got through the first month I thought you know what this is just a waste of time. I'm I had zero Zero benefit at this point. I thought you know, this is just I'm kind of dead in again It was about at that time that I had a complete turnaround about the first week of the second month and it was at that time that all my symptoms improved almost just completely went away and My digestive process was better than it had been since I could remember. So I continued through the process and At that point, I think anything the book told me to do I would I would follow through with you know Have you done the probiotics leading up to that or did you gloss over? The diets by themselves Before I had even heard of the 8th grade Nate. I had tried many different types of probiotics and Either I had no benefit or sometimes my symptoms would get worse That's just by Things that I would read on the internet and research that I had done on my own and that's a good point there that we should quickly mention which is We don't want to force a dietary solution to a non dietary problem, right? so you had gone through the dietary steps and I'm assuming you gave at least the paleo and the low FODMAP diet a trial and for people watching this You know, we want to give diet. It's fair do But we also want to know when to move beyond diet and not flounder in the dietary purgatory forever And and so I'm glad that you Did the dietary trials, but then you know you were reading the book protocol which gave you okay diet hasn't done it yet Let's not try to force that and let's now escalate to therapies and it's also I Think notable to mention Patients can be important, right? Some people will respond only after being on antimicrobials for a couple days to about a week and your case You had to kind of stick with it and get to them guessing It was maybe five or six weeks of total time on the antimicrobials before you started seeing some improvements That's about accurate. Yep. Yeah, that's right Okay, I tried some of them antimicrobials before in particular Well, I've already known I had tried that One of the podcasts I listened to his brain in Greenfield He has one of those that he recommends for gut issues, but by itself. I had no improvement at all So I don't you know, I was just another key point which is and this is something I Probably harp on in the book which is there's not necessarily a magic protocol But but there is a really a magic process if you will and this is one of the things that I see so are many people Which is they try one thing in isolation or another thing in isolation But they're but they're not sequencing these things in the right order and kind of laying this foundational aspect Building on top of that and then building on top of that kind of like this pyramid model and that in some cases is a difference between success and failure so really I'm a kudos to you for diligently working through the protocol because You know that that's I think again sometimes the difference between succeeding and failing Which is having a map for how to apply these therapies and sequence them rather than just kind of trying this try and that trying the other thing and I think that's what I love most about the book is it gives you that map and it's it's really necessary I'm surprised there are more books like this to this point There's so much information about a diet or about a certain antimicrobial, but none of it Is encompassing it doesn't fit together. There's no laid-out plan. There's no pyramid like you said, right? So that's where the book comes in that was helpful so I Yeah, yeah after the two months the second month of the antimicrobials. I felt great I thought that I was cured of whatever it was that was a I had never been diagnosed, but my symptoms were gone. So I moved into the the Motility phase and I started with the Motility Pro and After the first month I Was starting to experience Some regression back to the same symptoms before so I went back to the book and it said to Sometimes you just need more time in the Motility phase. So I thought well, maybe that's it Maybe I need to stay here a little longer and I started the second month of the Motility Pro at that point Towards the end of the month the symptoms were still regressing. So I was kind of slowly moving back to where I was All the symptoms were coming back not as bad as they had been before but I was going back in that direction so at that point I decided to go back to the book and see what direction it told me to go and I decided that the second phase of antimicrobials with the Additional add-ons would be proven at that point Yeah, and so just to clarify because this is a point that I specifically speak to in the book Because this does happen where people go on antimicrobials they improve and then when they come off the antimicrobials They regress and it's not necessarily a hard thing to fix and we do speak about that in the book Which is you know kind of extending your time in antimicrobials a little bit longer And so that's essentially what what you started on Plus some of the add-ons and just for people listening. There's a couple add-ons for Let's say you're buying a car You can buy a regular car or you can also get you know the upgraded turbo charge plus the full power window package You don't necessarily need to buy the most expensive car or the fastest car in the market So we start you off with kind of the basic model so to speak and then if you're in this position of Seeing some improvements, but then regressing if we have to go through another course of antimicrobials There's some add-ons we can use to kind of enhance the results. And so that's what you're starting to now Yes, that's what I decided to do. I will with all the add-ons. So The dissolve This is an antibiotic formation just just for people listening which which some some bacteria and fungus can form this protective Coding over themselves and that can be one of the causes of these Symptoms that improve regress improve regress and so using an agent that breaks apart this film this protective coating and allows the Anthem of curgals to penetrate the organism can can be helpful So yeah, that's one of the things in the add-on package NAC and the Automation yeah, yes, so that is well, so I've just started the first week of the second month and at this point I haven't noticed this benefit as I had before so I'm kind of waiting and hoping that I get back to the place that I was at the end of the first two months protocol But I'm not there yet So that's kind of where I'm at at the moment catch. This is a great times Snip it because you're you're not someone who's fully gone through everything and gotten all the way out of the woods So this is it's kind of an interesting time to check in so just to kind of recap You've seen results Really, it sounds like you haven't seen this level of improvement prior until doing a healthy Got healthy you protocol, but you haven't made it all the way out of the protocol and this I think is a key thing to mention because Some books will give you a helpful protocol I don't think there's any gut books as you mentioned a moment ago that really give you as in depth of a map for Improving your gut health as my book does but even beyond that there are also some Tips for people who improve and then regress because this sometimes happens when someone does a line of therapy they feel great, but Sometimes what's left out of the testimonial or or the marketing literature for a book or a course or whatever is the people who did great and then later on regressed and I built specifically into the book protocol what to do when that happens and Fortunately, this is an outgrowth of what I see in the clinic where when you're following up with people every month You see one group of patients Uses this protocol they feel better and they never look back But another group Improves and then they start regressing after a number of months. So it's it's not necessarily difficult It's just knowing what to do and so that's right where you are Travis and You may need to give it a little while longer only I believe you said you're only a weekend. So you may need a little bit longer with the More kind of advanced antimicrobial protocol to get there But and this is funny like I'm having a conversation with the patient in the clinic right now What I tell my patients is the fact that you responded to this antimicrobial nudge to the microbiota Tells us we're doing the right thing It's just sometimes we need to do the right thing a little longer and an analogy I like to use that, you know the injured knee analogy if you hurt your knee You were wearing a brace for a while and doing some rehab and feeling better But you went back to playing sports too soon. You might see your knee pain regress Right and so it's not necessarily a big deal We got to get back on the rehab protocol where the brace for a little while longer stay in that kind of post-injury rehab phase just a bit longer and Sometimes that's really all that we need to do to fully get someone over the hump so this is actually a great point in time to check in on and It would be great if we can get another snippet from you, you know when you're on the other side of the hump to Kind of put these together Do you have any any questions for me I guess while you while you have me here and then do you have any words that you want to offer people listening and close? One thing that I've skipped forward to in the book is How you eventually and I think this is a mistake I may have made when I came off of the antimicrobial is the first time the proper procedure to Kind of start stepping away from some of these supplements that that you go through What I did when I got done with the second month of the first antimicrobial protocol is I basically quit all the antimicrobials along with the probiotics And was just on the motility probe. I thought I was done. I thought I was like I said cured so I didn't see the need for those things anymore. And when I looked at the toward the back of the book It shows what's what order to come off of these things and actually I should have stayed on the probiotics While I was still taking the syllable. Do you think that affected my regression? It certainly could have and then this is this is why I do recommend when people read the protocol That they read through it fully first before doing it because you want to make sure you understand the whole map so that you don't just follow part of the map and then In your case, maybe jump ship prematurely Which is fine. It's part of the learning process, right? I understand I understand the spirit of them feeling better and alright Just on with my life totally get that and I appreciate that. I think that's probably a healthy psychology to have however Coming back to the rehab analogy, we don't want to get you back onto the the sporting field too early post rehab and so it sounds like that may have been what happened and What likely happened here was there was some dyspiosis in your gut some imbalances and the fungus bacteria and like organisms in the gut that was improving from the protocol and You got to a point where your symptoms were gone and that's fantastic But instead of winning yourself back down off of the supports and to you know a normal life You kind of jumped there so instead of a stair step. It was just like a cliff And what may have happened there was you you open the door for those imbalances to come creeping back and The probiotics are actually a type of antimicrobial. This is one of things as you know, I talk about in the book Yeah, I think it's really underappreciated that probiotics can fight things like small intestinal bacterial growth and fungus and yeast and We haven't done obviously any testing which and you really don't need to we just need to understand if there's imbalances in the gut We don't need to know exactly what they are We need you know if you have symptoms we can presume that there are some imbalances in the gut And then we can use these tools to rebalance you and so everything was working according to plan but We didn't follow the plan all the way as we should have and so we saw the gut come back to balance And then that equals your symptoms going away fantastic But then there was a cliff right down to not the appropriate kind of follow-up and follow-through So when I tell people to really follow the book protocol, it's for a good reason because these are all things I've learned through You know hundreds of patients every year for multiple multiple years you start to see how these things play out And while my ultimate objective is to get you and anyone else to a point where they have the broadest diet possible And the minimum amount of supplements possible We want to make sure that we don't fall off a cliff to get there and that we you know Go on to the program and we know off of the program just so we avoid any of these drops like this, but this is actually A few examples that are really really poignant because these are things that will affect a lot of people So I'm glad I'm but don't hit the wrong way But I'm glad you're making some of these mistakes because they're really valuable learning points for people sure, that's why I brought that up. I hope To everyone out there Read through the whole program before you decide that you're going to stop anything You know, it's important like you said to know the whole plan before you decide to Jump off a cliff, right? Going back to knowing the whole plan one of the reasons that I was going that far ahead in the book was I wanted to see What the end result what kind of supplements did you recommend once everything's said and done? And that's another question I had Um I was surprised to see such a high dosage of probiotics even after you make it to Um, I forget the I guess the eighth step the enjoy and have fun step Um, I was hoping to get to a point to where Uh, probiotics would not be something that I needed to worry about but uh from what the book says That's not the case that it may be something that you recommend on an ongoing basis Even after symptoms have been gone for some time And there's there's a key word there which is may right so specifically in the protocol We have you stay on the probiotics for a term Once you've so you hit your peak level of improvements And you wean off a number of things and you're left with a couple things But and this is an important thing to be um clear on You want to test a wean off of the probiotics And only stay on them if you notice your symptoms regress when you come off of them So staying on a probiotic is only dependent upon someone Coming off them and noticing they do better when they're on them And this what this really does is it helps answer the question Of who should be on what in the long term and how do we get to the most minimal protocol? Now most people can come off most probiotics and be okay, but some people do notice And usually what this looks like is using loose stools as an example Their stools look great. They come off probiotics and their stools don't go back to normal But maybe they're a little bit loose And so people notice, you know, if I take my probiotics every Monday Wednesday and Friday That's enough to keep my stools looking consistent and well formed I also mentioned in the book that you want to periodically revisit this wean off Because what happens at month four may be different at month eight or month twelve So it's important to periodically revisit weaning off of all the supports So that you know if you're someone who can be a nothing and be okay Or maybe needs a little bit of support or maybe for someone who has a very severe case of IVS or IBD You may need even a little bit more support. So there's no right or wrong answer there but what we want to do is Stare step to getting to a point where we're on the minimal dose of any kind of support in the long term And that will be taken on a case-by-case basis Well, my next question was and I think you just kind of answered it was Another the dosage of the probiotics that you recommended people to stay on In the book it says A teaspoon of the probiotics, which would actually be according to the website four billion on the dosage now um When you go to the store and you buy probiotics generally, you can't even find out a four billion Most of the time but a hundred billion is a high dosage From what I've seen and what's offered. So It sounds like from what you're saying is A probiotic may be necessary and the the dosage will vary depending on the person and the symptoms Right, right and anxiety coming back to the the point from a moment ago Which is as part of kind of that step eight, which is maintenance and fun And that's attempting a wean off And so when you wean off something completely If you notice a regression in your symptoms, then I recommend going back on and trying to find a minimal effective dose So really what this comes down to sets distinctly is you're working toward a minimal effective dose And for everyone that's going to be a little different So I don't give a specific dose because there is it would be incorrect for me to say The maintenance dose of this probiotic is fifty billion cfu because for some people That'll be too much and they won't need it and for other people it won't be enough So it's a great question and definitely something I hope we help aid other people in having clarion Which is the minimal effective dose could be anything and just because the book protocol gives you one dose You know from there when you're trying to find the minimal it could be any derivative of that You know full dose Okay, yeah, that that makes sense When you're when you're trying to determine a probiotics or I guess I was going to ask about A dose but how do you how do you consider things like natural probiotics like a kombucha or a sauerkraut? Do you consider those as How do you how do you put those into the equation? Do you factor them in at all and How much of a probiotic are you actually getting from those kind of sources? Well, you can look in the label to get a read for what the probiotics are on those different foods There's not one answer that equates to kim chi the sauerkraut and to kombucha They're all going to be a little bit different in both their probiotic makeup and their dose But as I mentioned in the book, I think probiotics in your foods or probiotic rich foods are definitely a part Of a healthy diet. They won't be for everyone. Some people will notice they don't do well on those foods But I think the majority will be okay with those and they're definitely something I'd incorporate into your diet and that would be a foundational aspect of Trying to incorporate fermented foods into your diet and I wouldn't try to kind of offset Dose for dose but rather build those in your diet And then you'll also have your support supplemental probiotics And then with time you'll go through the exercise of trying to find the minimal effective dose And you know, hopefully your minimal effective dose will be nothing But if you need a little bit to supplement in addition to where you're getting in your diet Then you'll figure that out when you go through that mean off process So, you know, they're they're both something to be considered and hopefully you can get there just with food But if not, you can use whatever minimal dose of the probiotics that you need And those kinds of foods are those okay during the uh, like the antimicrobial step Yeah That is all the questions I have for you cool Most of you guys turned out to be kind of half, uh, I guess conversation about your success and then also half You know q and a and typical stumblin block So I think this will actually be helpful in in two veins for people So, uh, thank you Travis for for taking the time any any parting words you want to leave people with um Just have faith in the process and if you're like me, uh, you know, I I made it through four days of fasting um, many different diets that uh, that were not necessarily convenient and A whole month of antimicrobials Uh before I noticed any benefit at all, but uh, it was at that point in the process You know, I'm I'm glad that I didn't give up because uh, that's that's when I did notice more of a benefit than I had In as long as I can remember. So yeah hanging there. Yeah Sage advice. Well, thank you again Travis for Taking the time to speak with us and then showed us a note when you're out of the woods I'd love to follow up with you again then sure. That'd be great. Awesome. Thanks again Travis. Take care. Thank you