 I wanted to get into the football program. I didn't know how you could do that. I probably should have done some more research before, but I woke up one day at like five in the morning. I went down to the football office and I figured if I'm standing outside, the first person that comes in is going to have to talk to me. I mean, just the way it's going to be. So sure enough it was the head coach. And I don't think I explained exactly what I wanted to do at the point, but he brought me into the linebacker's coach, his office, and there was this position where I'd be like an administrative assistant with the coaching staff, and if they liked me they'd give me a scholarship. So they put me on a test program and they ended up liking me, so they gave me a scholarship. And I worked there my whole freshman year and I thought okay now I'm set. So I wrote a letter to all 32 NFL teams and I got 32 rejections, which I still have. I keep them, it's like a motivation thing. Some of them I didn't even know what a form letter was, but some of them were really nice. So I realized that wasn't going to work. I needed a little bit more help. So the next year our head coach was a guy by the name of Dick McPherson. And I went up to him and I asked, I said, can you help me get an internship? And he said I could. And I gave him a list of six teams wherever I had relatives. And I said, he said from that list, which is your top priority? And I'm a native. I'm from Sharon, Massachusetts. So I said, you know, the Patriots, that would be my top priority. So he told me we'll go to work with the Patriots. If that doesn't work then we'll go to team number two and we'll keep working until hopefully we get something. So he told me we were going to a bowl game that year. And he said come see me right when the bowl game's over. Well during the school break he got hired as the head coach of the Patriots. So I ran down to his office. I said don't you told me that you would help me get an internship there. Don't forget me. And he said I won't. He goes it's gonna be a little busy. Why don't you come, you know, see me during, you know, during spring break. So I went there. I met with him and he got me in touch with somebody that was the PR director at the time. And you know I wasn't looking to, I just wanted to get in the door. And at the time the only department that really had an intern was PR. So they allowed me to come in and I mean I picked up the mail on my way to work. I loaded the Coke machine. I sat at the GM's house when he had to get his cable put in. And they'd give me a stack and media guide stuff and I'd edit that. So I did that for two summers. And then when the person that I worked for with the Patriots, the traditional path is you do a full season internship. And then hopefully something will break for you. So the person that I worked for in New England went to the New York Giants right when I was graduating. So I went there with him and ended up staying there for six years. And then then I kind of made a different path here. I started following head coaches around, which is not necessarily the best thing to do in the world because you're under the coaches. When he goes, you go. But you know I was 26 years old and I was just, Dan Reeves was our head coach with the Giants. He had gone to the Atlanta Falcons. He wanted to bring me with him. I guess similar to a president would bring his own press secretary. So I was all excited about that. So I went to Atlanta with Dan. And then after six years, when we had too many consecutive losing seasons, I was out. But Mike Nolan, who I had worked with in New York, had just gotten a head coaching job with the San Francisco 49ers. So I went to the San Francisco 49ers with him. And that was a great experience. Something that, but again, we didn't win enough games. So I was out again. And I thought, maybe I should just end this, but I had a chance to come with the Patriots, a winning organization. And through all my time, I had never experienced really winning. And I really wanted to experience that. So that was kind of a neat deal. And I guess in some ways I feel like I'm more of a spokesperson for United Van Lines after all that moving. But and I wouldn't draw it up that way in the same way. I think I'm better because I've experienced so much. You know, each team had a different set of circumstances was in a different time and place. And I realize you can't come in with just one way. You have to come in and kind of analyze the situation and then figure out and tackle the problems that that team faces. And just because you face that problem in Atlanta, doesn't mean that you're gonna, you can handle that same problem the same way in San Francisco. It's a different market. It's a different, you know, the team could be in a different place. They don't maybe you don't sell out, maybe you do sell out, maybe you're more established, maybe you're not. So I kind of I think it was at the end of the day, it was a great learning experience. The one thing I could say no matter where I've been, it's the responsibilities you can have the title as PR director, but the responsibilities are all different. Some places it really is strictly more media relations. Some places hit the great example in San Francisco, we were trying to get a stadium built. So there was a lot of government interaction as you're trying to work on that public affairs. It was beyond just the traditional media relations. In New England, we own the stadium. So now you got stadium initiatives. But one of the beauties of PR, no matter what the responsibilities are. And I always say we deal with everyone in the organization, you know, you if you're the running backs coach for the New England Patriots, you deal with the running backs. You sit in a room with just the running backs. Maybe there's a little on the offense, but you're not really dealing with anybody else. I deal with everybody. I deal with every coach. I deal with, I deal with every single player. I deal with, you know, I have the community relations people saying we have a new initiative. What's our plan for this? The coaches want a free agency plan. You know, our own marketing is coming to us saying, hey, I need to I need a report on how many web hits and what our Twitter account is because I'm trying to do this sales pitch. What are our TV ratings? So it's it's kind of you really need to have a broad education because you're dealing with a little bit of everything. But either way, it's it makes it kind of exciting. There's never and never is the same day twice. It's never a monotonous. It's always changing. And it makes it kind of a neat career. Or so I think I guess you would be in here, right? So now, you know, I always get asked this, even from my own wife, you know, what is PR? Because we're dealing with so many different things. And it's so different. So, you know, sure, you're managing messaging. And you're, you know, what's best for the organization? You're dealing with that message and managing that. And, you know, trying to take a message that works for both the organization and the public. But what I've found is, it's so much more than that. A lot of what we do. And I don't think I knew this when I went in. But as I developed, I learned it. So much of my external communication, we all want that we're all trying to pitch stories. We're all trying to write press releases. So you need the writing skills. That's all fine. And that's part of this. There's no doubt that that's the nuts and bolts of PR. And that's not going to ever change. But it's internal communication. I spend so much of my time making sure that people are educated, understanding what our message is. Because I like to say, I don't care who you are in that organization. If you're the receptionist, they need to know if we signed a running back, if we have some great thing having at the stadium, you know, when they're at their little neighborhood barbecue, they're selling for us. They're an advocate for the organization. So we always have internal communication and internal talking points. So they understand just wherever they are, they're an advocate for that organization. Trying to keep everyone on the same page. That's extremely important and not always easy. And a lot of times, as PR, we're kind of like the sounding board, you realize, you know, the coach will be in there yapping about a story that he doesn't like. And, you know, it's fair criticism, you just have to sit there, let him explain what he did, let him vent to you, and then, you know, kind of go from there. And I always mention the coach here, but, you know, if you're working in corporate PR, it's going to be your CEO, it's going to be your vice president of marketing, whoever that is, it's kind of interchangeable. So the other thing, I guess, that maybe I didn't know when I got in it, it is 24-7, especially nowadays with Twitter and social media. And that's something you have to know going in. We're never closed. We might want to be closed, but we're never closed. And as my poor family has learned, my plans are always contingent because I could pretty much guarantee July 4th in our line of work is going to be quiet. But outside of that, I can't. And at any moment, something could happen and you got to be on call and got to be ready. And that leads to another thing that, you know, I was talking about the nuts and bolts of PR, but one of the biggest things that I think adds value to a PR professional in this day and age, especially because of the social media where one tweet can make or break your image, it's crisis planning. And it's something that I do, and I very extensively, but come up with your crisis plan and I try to do it when it's quiet, when I'm not in that crisis. What are the worst things that can ever happen? I tend to think I'm an optimistic person, but the more pessimistic I am, the better PR person I'm going to be. And I think of everything back that can happen. I've had a, when I was with the 49ers, right after a game, we had a player die in the locker right in front of us. And my coach is looking at me, my owner is looking at me, what do we do Aaron? And as crazy as that sounds, I actually had a plan. It's kind of hard to watch that happen and think that you could be coherent if you're a human being. But I woke, I just opened up to this plan and I started barking out orders. And in this case, not everybody, nobody wanted this. The two things that I took out because we followed that plan, we established the pool report. So the family of that play, the media, they were told, and I gathered them, I said, in a minute here, you're going to see a player walk out, you're going to see a stretcher come out here. When I'm asking you, don't report which player to say a player went down. As soon as I have more information, I'll give it to you. They all follow that to a T. So the family of this player found out first before any media person ever did. And the other thing that we did, we sent one of our PR people, which, a tough assignment, he went in the ambulance with that player to the hospital, cut off all the communication at the hospital. So if anyone called that hospital, the phone call went right to me. And I was able to get back to them. And again, these plans, I kind of called, I have a big book of it. And it's in every, from DUIs, I study this all the time. Any team that happens around the league, any line of business, I look in the newspapers, and if there's somebody that's in a crisis, a lot of politics, obviously. I print these stories out and I underline the quotes, and then I follow the story for the next week, two weeks, month, whatever it might be. And I analyze what they did, what they didn't do. If I know the people, I'll call them and say, hey, what worked in that? What didn't work? What do you wish you did again? And then I have my plan and I'm constantly changing it. I kind of call it, it's kind of my constitution and all those plans are amendments because I'm changing them. Obviously, when this player went down, Twitter wasn't around at that time. Well, I have to go back to that plan and add in, how do I handle this with Twitter? Technology changed, so I've got to change my whole crisis planning. And again, that's where we add value because I think what happens, I look at us, we are money generators, but a lot of companies will look and they look at your marketing department and they look, okay, look at the line item, this is the money they generated. And I keep saying, well, if I don't manage that message correctly, if we look like we're chaotic, it's not going to help you go out and sell. And if, you know, even there's bad things that happen. I mean, obviously if you guys have followed the Patriots, we've had some bad things happen. Despite our winning, that could have damaged us. I like to think that we handle them in a manner where it doesn't take away from those things being bad, but I think that, you know, we didn't lose any business because of that. And you know, again, that's where our role really plays a value. And again, it's something that sometimes as PR professionals, we fight. We are advocates for, we are money generators. It all starts, there's a tentacle from every single department that goes to PR. So if we're not doing our job, it's going to affect their jobs. And you know, hopefully they understand that. So now one of the problems too in PR, and you're kind of always in a state of conflict. As I said, you know, especially in our line of work where you're dealing with a press corps, every day they are there. And there's companies that wish they had the amount of advertising they had that we have where every day it's in the newspaper. Now that's good, but it's also bad because even if there's not news, they're going to fill out that space. And you figure, you know, I always joke in our world, we play 16 games a year. The average game is three hours. So that's 48 hours worth of football a year that we're guaranteed to play. So the rest of the time we're just talking about it. I mean, we do more talking about it than we do playing. And again, you know, the more you talk, the more you have a chance for things to go wrong sometimes. And you know, that's a tough part. And then sometimes you're always doing what's best for the media isn't always what's best for your organization. So you're that person that's out front having to hear from this side, then you're hearing it from this side. And you just got to stay tough. And you got to realize sometimes if it's fair criticism, we're going to get it. What's just what's take it and what's move on what's fixed the problem and what's move on. And that sometimes could be a hard conversation. Because they don't want to sometimes your CEO, your owner, you know, your coach, they don't want to hear that. But you know, if it's fair criticism, you got to take a step back and say, Hey, wait a minute, they have I'd be criticizing this too. So that's again, not always an easy conversation to have. And I think especially if you're dealing with the press corps, you always have to remember, you're naturally going to have relationships that you're going to have it with your people in your organization, you're going to have it with the media. But it's not about the relationship with the media. And it's not it's not about relationships. Sure, you're going to build it. But you know, I might know Peter King real well, we might sit and talk and take you guys all know Peter King from well. But at the end of the day, it's because of the seat I occupy. It's not because of me. So my point is I'm going to always educate our people. My point, I know that he's not going to write great things about the Patriots because of Aaron Salkin, he's going to write things great, great things about the Patriots when we communicate the right things to him. So sure, we're going to have a relationship, but you can't let that get in the way. And sometimes it does. And you got to you got to always it's about that logo. It's about whatever company you're working for. And you just got to remember that. So now again, you know, I mentioned the thing I think that separates the while you're doing that crisis plan. And you're you're that's what kind of separates PR people. You're going to get to a point. Everyone in the room knows how to write a press release. Everyone knows how to, you know, pitch a story. It's that crisis planning. And you want to not only when you come up with that crisis plan, you want to sit there and practice it. When I was in San Francisco, obviously, we're in Earthquakes happen all the time. I started thinking what if I'm in the press box in an earthquake happens? I have no clue what I'm supposed to do. So I gathered our people and we went to went we didn't work in our state and we went down there and we had an earthquake drill. We pretend like an earthquake just happened. And we wrote it down step by step by step what we were supposed to do. And we practice it. And you know, you could have the best laying plan in the world. But if you can't execute the plan, it doesn't matter. So you got to practice executing. You got to is that your general counsel, it's kind of twofold. One side of the crisis plan just has to be the steps that you take the people that you call who do you inform who needs to know this. Then the second part is thinking of every possible situation that could happen. And then running it by your your lawyers, making sure the people that are going to give the first comments understand what those comments are. Because again, these things happen. They don't happen always from a nine to five schedule. They happen on crazy times. And again, if you're watching somebody die right in front of you, you can't act coherently. It's kind of hard to watch that. So you want to make sure you have that plan ahead of time. And you want to make sure you execute you have kind of a run through a little practice with that drill, just so you can make sure that you actually can execute that crisis plan. And then you can't ever think you figure this out so many times. You know, that's what keeps you going back to your crisis plans every year, every month I go back and I look at them and I say, Hmm, what did I do right? What didn't I do right? What would I do again? And I kind of because everyone's time is sensitive. I've realized that I kind of read the papers in the morning. And I read them again at night. Sometimes I'll see a headline. I'm like, I got to read that. I'll email it to myself and I'll read it at night. Then I'll print it out highlight what I need, put it in my folder in the right category. And I'll have it for me when I need it. Hopefully I'm never in those situations. It's not fun. But you know, just in case. What's the other thing? You know, the other thing I guess I didn't realize just how important your teaching skills are. You know, I always like to say never think you figured out as I mentioned before. So many times I'm dealing with people that are dealing with the media. And they're like, Hey, I've done this so many times. I don't know. Listen, you're going to sit down. We're going to make sure you understand everything you're about to face. And then we'll go out there. And you know, why I it keeps me on my toes because I got to make sure I'm prepared. It helps me keep them prepared. And I got to make sure that they understand that. But it's the teaching skills. So much of what I do on a daily basis is teaching. And it's sitting down. What's the best way to teach? What's the best way to do that? And I don't think I realized why I knew I was getting into PR. I feel like I'm a teacher. I'm kind of like the media coach and the coach is a teacher. And it's actually it's probably the thing I enjoy the most. But certainly I I've done things where I've taken a seminar on how am I going to teach people that might have a learning disability? And that's helped me. I mean, we've had I've had people that I've dealt with that had learning disabilities. They don't learn the way maybe I learn or you learn. And that was really, really helpful. And again, you know, I could come up with the best talking points in the world. But if I'm trying to teach that person, I need to know how I'm going to communicate to that person. How am I going to get them to understand this? You know, some people could be I could talk to them. Some people, they need it in writing. What I found is I put everything I have in writing, everything, every plan, every way I'm going to tackle a situation. It makes me think about it more. And then even if somebody is more verbal and they want to hear it verbally, I still have it in writing. And, you know, usually I'll give them a copy of that too. So I don't know if I have much more, but I don't know if you guys have any questions I could certainly answer or any questions about some of the crazy crises we've faced. Yeah, yeah, that's not one of my I refuse to call it the flake. I call it called an air pressure issue at the very, you know, right. Just because it, well, I would say that the difference would be the NFL kind of runs the championship game and the Super Bowl. If anything, in some ways, when I got to the Super Bowl, and I've been fortunate enough to be at two, usually I'm working a week ahead. So I'm always working on two games and at the Super Bowl I'm like, wow, you know what, there's not a game next week. So all I'm doing is dealing with this week. Now it was long days, it was crazy days. But in some ways it was a little bit easier, I thought, than the championship week. Probably the hardest week was the week in between the championship game and that before we left to go to the Super Bowl. But I will tell you, it's amazing we win the championship game. And I can't even get the confetti off my head before like the NBC execs found me on the field with a stack of stuff like, how about this thing saying, hey, this is what we need done for that Super Bowl. And, you know, a lot of game notes that we do, it kind of, it's kind of anonymous, although maybe not now that I'm saying this, but you start thinking 165 or whatever million people are watching this game and they're using these notes that I have. So it's kind of a neat feeling. It was, it was, it was certainly fun. And to chase your dream after getting all those regression letters, I could definitely see how that would be very encouraging. Yeah, you know, I, because I kept thinking in my head that I exhaust every resource I possibly had. You know, I just, I just, I didn't want to, I, I guess there comes a point when you would. I mean, right now I didn't have a wife and two kids then. And I didn't have a mortgage I had to pay for. So I kind of had the freedom to do that. I think that I think in my head I realized, okay, there was a certain point where I was going to go in a different direction. I was going to go to law school. And I, I thank the Lord every day I didn't do that. But I'm not that I should discourage someone that wants to do that. But I just didn't want to do that. But I just, I wanted to make sure I exhausted every single resource I had before I ever gave up on that dream. So and believe me, why I've been doing this, there's two times where, you know, I was told, Hey, the coach is going and you're going to. And fortunately, if you're going to do that, I was under a contract. So I was always getting paid. And you had a little bit of time to figure it out. But there were times I thought maybe I should do something else and or different line of PR, for sure. And again, I think that's one of the things. There are so it's so broad and there's so many things that PR people do, that the skills are transferable. I don't know if people always understand that. But you are involved in your involvement so much, you're involved in marketing, you're involved in community relations, you're, you're involved in all these things that you have some knowledge in every one of those. And I think that that's extremely helpful if you went on and did something else, just because of that skill set. What are the dynamics in your department, like who's helped largely part of it? Right. What are the, who's responsible for it? It's kind of wherever I've been, it's been different in different places. And part of that goes into do you own your stadium, do you not? So we own our stadium. So there's a vice president that kind of handles community relations and more of the owner kind of things. I'm strictly with the Patriots and there's an assistant director and it kind of works with me just on the Patriots. Then we have a corporate PR person. The corporate PR is handling the concerts at the stadium, everything at the stadium including Patriot Place because we own that business too. And then we have a social media manager that kind of oversees all that and that department is even growing. We have two people doing that now. But then again, we have, see we also have our own production office. So that even takes on a whole new element on my responsibilities and all that. We have three TV shows. So China, you know, deal with those TV shows is pretty expensive. But it's, that's the part that's, it's kind of growing, but it's different in every team. And even, you can't even go on titles because what somebody, the title that somebody has in one place might not even match the responsibilities that somebody has in another place. Well, the part that was unique about that was that our off season program had just ended and it ended on a Friday. And so basically when our off season program ends, we're done for the summer until training camp. So it would have been totally different if everyone was at our place where we had media availability. But we got wind of it Monday, that Monday. And at that time, we didn't know the specifics whether he was a suspect. And it kind of dragged on for about a week. But I would say somewhere between early Tuesday, the next day, we realized if he got arrested in any form or fashion connected to this, we were cutting him. And it's interesting because when we wrote up what we initially put, we had a quote in the release. And when he actually got arrested, we didn't know what he got arrested for. We didn't know whether that it was, you know, is it, is it because he was hiding evidence? Was he now cooperative? We did. I had no clues. Murder in the first. So we took the quote out and just simply cut him. But it went the whole crisis went down a notch in my mind. The minute we knew if he got arrested in any form or fashion, we were cutting him. And now you could say, well, of course, you're going to do that. But in the NFL, you have a salary cap for people that don't know. And he had a big contract. So by cutting him when we did, we had to absorb that money into that season, which for so that wasn't helpful financially. Now, we weren't going to pay the money, but it counts towards your salary cap. So, you know, it wasn't necessarily a given. Are you going to actually cut the guy and just absorb that? We did because it was the right thing to do. And once you knew that, you said, OK, well, this, you know, the media is not here. They weren't there one day when they followed them up. But we kind of got them out of there. So it I mean, it's awful. It's an awful thing. But the fact that the media wasn't at our building makes it not the worst thing I've ever experienced as far as the media crisis part of it. You know, it's shocking to know that somebody you work with could even do something like that. So. I understand that you certainly want to be in school. But how would like, what advice could you give? I'd say the best the best thing is to try to get an informational meeting. I mean, you know, call up, send an email. Just say, look, you know, and if you do it, we've all been there. I mean, and I think, you know, my example, I realized I couldn't do it totally on my own. I needed some help. I needed some guidance. Somebody had to give me my break. And but I think people are very willing to share their time. It might not be, OK, obviously, during the season it gets hectic, but hey, touch base in the offseason. I think most companies will do that. That most people will do that because they've all been there. And, you know, then as you get a little older, I have two little boys and, you know, one day they're going to need this and I'm praying to God somebody will take the time to talk to them. So I think people understand that. And that happens a lot. And I mean, there's countless examples of people that went for an informational interview or not even I won't even call an interview just an informational meeting. And it led maybe not then, but it or maybe not even with that company, but it led to an internship maybe at another company through another person's contact or maybe an internship there and then maybe a job there. So I think that's what you got to do. And, you know, you identify the the ones that you're passionate about, the ones that you want to do and, you know, just search for their contact and let people know to because I think that's an important part to you. You almost want to you want to let people know what you're trying to do. You don't know who your professor might know that could that has a connection. So I think that's important. I'm sure every year is different, but is there a time of year that's like consistently the most active group to trade that a lot of the openings? Yeah, I'd say it's more once we start training, I well, I would say right before that first game, because that's when we have our cut down day, your finalizing your roster. That's probably the biggest. And then, you know, we've been, I would say the postseason, but fortunately, we've had that first round by, but and now, you know, we've kind of probably my in 2011, that was my first Super Bowl. That was a lot more hectic than the last one, because I had experienced it and I kind of had an idea of what I was doing and what I would have done different from the first one. So that made life a little easier. So although that's a good problem to have if you're kind of hectic and busy at that time. So with such a non traditional schedule, you know, like the community 24 seven and having to be on call all the time, how do you manage having a family and having a good normal life along with your career? You know what? Yeah, it's it's it's gotten easier with laptop computers and, you know, iPhones and all that because but it's kind of like, you know how the president of the United States will never go anywhere without that black box with all the codes. I have to bring my wife hates it, but I bring my my my work bag is with me 24 seven because I have that crisis book in there. What if I need it? I can't Oh, two hours from home. Oh, yeah, just put the crisis on hold for a little bit. It doesn't work that way. But you know, you can, you definitely can. I mean, I was doing this when I met my wife. And it's not always easy. It isn't. But and I think you learn to maximize the time that you do have. As I mentioned, July 4, I could absolutely tell you. At the end of June, right when our off season, well, unless somebody gets arrested for it's going to be quiet at that time. And you could, you know, you could, I could go away. But then again, you know, every day there's, I would say pretty much every day there's some sort of work related thing I'm doing, even if it's a day where I'm not at work. And that's just that's something that you accept when you take that job. And I don't think that's unique to the NFL or PR these days. I mean, you know, that that's one of the curse with the phones. It is 24 seven. But you learn to delegate maybe some responsibilities. There could be some things that you could say, All right, listen, you handle this this week, this is a major thing. Or what really helps too is the plan. When you plan, when you have all those situations planned out, it actually makes your life easier because you're going to know, and it'll make the organization's job easier. It gives you a guidance on how to get through that first 24 hours of that crisis. And, you know, and I think it gives you comfort knowing that, Okay, I'm ready for anything, anything that pops up. I'm ready for it. And that's, I don't know if that answers your question. It's it's pretty big. And it's growing. So but it does it. You know, I kind of, you know, some of those crisis, you know, and you study everything from that, you know, the Ray Rice thing, what, what, what would I have done if that happened? And I look at what they did and I look at what I would have done. And, and you know, you're updating that. And then I had a crisis planned for a domestic violence. And it was done before the Ray Rice deal. When that happened, I went back to mine and said, Geez, you know, would this have been better than what they did? And, and, you know, I keep all those stories. So as I don't know if I could ever get rid of some of those stories, I think that I'll just keep growing. Unfortunately, but it will. And again, as I found out, it puts your, it puts your, everyone in your organization at ease knowing that you have those plant those things planned out in advance. So, you know, I think it depends on their skill set. I think they come in starting out. Good example. So we just had one of our interns that he did a season long intern, and then he stayed with us for another year. And then he just left us to go to the Bruins, but it was more money. But that was a great example. Or maybe I'll go back two years ago. So we had two season long interns that year. And there was one that we thought was going to be our main person. And the second person was going to be kind of more just logistical things. Well, that person kind of ended up doing so well that the persons at the Dallas Cowboys now. But we threw a lot at that, or I did, I threw a lot at that person. And every time I did it, they kept, they kept coming back with, oh, well, you said to do a, but I did a B and C. So I think that I think, you know, they, they came in and they tackled it. They were ready. They were preparing. And they, it certainly wasn't what that person was supposed to do. That wasn't what that person was hired to do, but they, they, they made that role into something that was extremely valuable. So I think it all depends. But the good part is you do have internship. Everyone does. And the good part now is they pay. So the sports PR. Well, you know, I wouldn't even, I think there was a time when you would, oh my God, did they work in the sports information office? What do they know about sport? I don't know if that says important these days because the issues that you face are in the skills that you need. All right, we play football. That's what we do. But if we were doing something else that the nuts and bolts of that are the same no matter where you go. So certainly you want somebody that probably because of the hours you need to be passionate about it. That would probably be a difficult thing if you weren't. But I mean, it's the skill set, you know, the writing, the, and those you, you probably want somebody to have that PR background. And you know, whether it's, it's our journalism background and that I think that would be important. But I don't think, I don't think it has to be all set on sports. Absolutely. If anything that could maybe maybe we could get tunnel vision and get in some of that outside thinking could help. So no, I don't think you need to just be in sports. I think there was a time when that was the case. But I don't think that's the case anymore. If you don't know like exactly what you want to do, you need to have like an internship in sports or can you just have an internship all over the books? Is there a certain amount that you think you need before the time to graduate school? Any internship advice you can offer? Yeah, you know, I would get, I don't miss, I think you need some of that only because I mean, you want to see somebody that was working in school, trying to get in the field, whether it's, you know, even if it's at your university, but just somebody that took the time to kind of learn that crap. In the same token, I think it could change, it depends on the person. I mean, it's, we've had a lot of interns and I don't know if I could say, hey, they all have skill A, B and C. Look, somebody that had worked in the corporate world adds value to us. If you have two people in your organization that have been in sports for 24 years, hey, wow, we're getting some outside thinking in here. So I don't think, you know, it's nice to see that somebody did different things and was working towards, you know, something that they're passionate about. But you know, then if you had, what if there was like a, you don't know the circumstances. I mean, you could, what if you were a student athlete? Maybe you couldn't do an internship. But that doesn't mean that you don't have the skill to be doing this. I mean, at the end of the day, the whole reason why you're having an intern is to learn that job. So I think you're going to evaluate the person and just see what happens. Yeah. No problem. That's it.