 Thank you for staying with us on Y254 Updates and if you are just joining us tonight on Health & Lifestyle Wednesday we talk about gender-based violence and with me in studio is Getshud Madimwa who is a gender-based violence program officer Swap Kenya where my center and we also have Antoni Ngangamudoni who is an advocate to help us talk about this. Thank you guys for finding the time to come and join us tonight, be part of this conversation, talk to us across our social media platforms that is at Y254 channel, across our social media platform. And also reach me at Patricia Muriuki. Let us start this with a very common question. Antoni you are an advocate and which means that you are so much aware about the law. Before you even get to talk about forms probably of gender-based violence that are so much aware by the public or by people who are watching us today. How does the law protect survivors of gender-based violence? Thank you very much for that question and to begin with is that the primary source of law in Kenya is the constitution and in particular chapter 4 of the constitution which is on the bill of rights which provides for the inherent dignity of every citizen, every person. So we have had good protection under the law however the question of whether our people are able to enjoy this protection against GBV or not is out there forever and to judge. So we have good provisions of the law but there exists some other gaps elsewhere mainly because GBV is not a legal crisis but more of a social problem because for multi agency and multi-thronged approach dealing with the issue of GBV. When we talk about GBV get should, most of the people are aware of physical violence but we know that there is economical, there is emotional. So probably for someone who is in a relationship right now or someone who is in a marriage or in whatever situation that they are in right now at the moment, how can they be able to identify that they are either going through emotional, psychological or economical because physical is so much has been talked about. So very much in various platforms. So from my perspective most people are aware of only physical violence and our country needs to work more on the other forms of violence so as to make people aware of other forms of violence. For example there is physical violence, emotional violence which is psychological and then there is economic violence and then there is sexual violence. Most of people are aware of sexual and physical. So we are really trying to do sensitizations to most people through our social media platforms and also we are really trying to go to the community through our advocacy teams which we call the paralegal officers who go to the community to basically empower people more. So there are other forms of violence which exist and we would like to make this go viral to all Kenyans to be able to know that there are about five forms of violence that people can undergo. For example the emotional for one to be able to know that they are undergoing emotional. This is something which affects you psychologically. So if you find something affecting psychologically you can seek medical help and go to a counselor or go to a medic who can be able to explain what you are going through so that they can be able to tell you if that is a form of violence or that is not. When we talk about gender based violence most of the times we talk about women and girls but not many people will have the conversation on GBV around men or young boys. I would like to bring you in on this Anthony as a male counterpart in this discussion. What do you think we can do to have men come out and speak about probably having experienced gender based violence, whatever form it is and have them have that courage to not feel biased or embarrassed talking about their experiences. Thank you once again for that question and to begin with I wish to state that GBV is not primarily against women or girls. Because when you look at the definition of the term GBV it is any form of violence which is orchestrated against a person but a person of the opposite gender. So indeed men do suffer and men suffer in silence and the time has come for us to face this issue and address the fact that what is bad for the ghost is equally bad for the gender. Men must be encouraged to come out and to know that it is not a show of weakness. It doesn't mean that you are weak when you experience this violence and when you come out. So we encourage every person especially men to be bold enough and to report these cases and take appropriate action and to the law enforcement agencies. When our young men or even old men come to report these cases they should be taken with the same seriousness that we do take. The women cases. The women cases involving our sisters and finally maybe if I may add this is that there is no shame, there is no embarrassment in reporting and taking action against a female perpetrator of this violence. I hope that people get to really take that and also for the officers or people that get to hear such stories they do not start belittling the men who come out and speak. So get ready to bring you in in the story of safe houses. We know that most countries have safe houses whereby a person who has been violated or who has gone through GBV has a place to go, has a shelter. They can go to and probably stay for some time before they now stabilize again. And I would like to refer to New Zealand which in 2018 passed a law on domestic violence leave which is a leave that allows people in New Zealand that if you have to experience GBV you have time where you have paid leave to really go and sit down and settle, probably go and if you have kids take them to a different place where you feel they are safe and all that. What do you think Kenya can do probably trying to borrow from more New Zealand as far as safe houses is concerned in terms of GBV? As a developing country for Kenya we are really trying especially the non-governmental organization they are really chipping in with the safe houses. Actually in Kenya we have safe houses where we can take especially for the ones which are existing for the young girls, the children and women. One is Kol Shofko. They are really trying their best to offer help to those who need help when it comes to gender based violence. But it is not enough for a country to have fewer safe houses. I think there is need for other organizations to chip in when it comes to safe houses and maybe offer help to those who have undergone trauma and maybe they need some little space out where they have experienced the gender based violence. As an advocate Antoni, what do you think probably the government can do more because I was looking at probably how different countries like in terms of budgets, how much money they get to invest or put into people or survivors of GBV and you can look at amounts that are very very very huge. What do you think the Kenyan government can do to support gender based violence survivors? Thank you so much for that question and I want to begin by saying that many things or many government projects do succeed because of political goodwill and we require to have adequate sources of finances. We require to have trained personnel. We also require to have an additional layer of support for victims of gender based violence and primarily the sole responsibility surely lies on the government because it is the government's duty to protect life and property. So the government must then increase the allocations that are given to gender based violence related maybe functions of the government and now that we have both the national and the county governments, we can always leverage on that. You know some of the resources that were previously being used by the defunct local government. Some of those resources can be refurbished and turned into safe houses or probably something else is that the government can support the non-government organizations that are already setting up on the ground. Gertrude and as a program as a GBV program officer under Swap Kenya that is a Wema Center. What are some of the strategies probably that you people because you see most of the times in life when you have a certain technique and you maintain it for a very long time and you notice it is not changing things, you have to adopt something new. So probably are there any new strategies or techniques that you are trying to adopt to in terms of creating awareness as far as GBV is concerned and also trying to make sure that as a country we get to see these numbers reduce with them having really increased during the COVID-19 pandemic. So what we notice is that people used to get gender-based violence and we used to refer them to either the government or the existing GBV setups which are there in the country. So what we did is we came up with a center. This center is there, it's called Wema Center under Swap. It's there to give services to the community and what basically we do is to try and make sure that the clients get a HIV test. After maybe getting a HIV test they'll be able to get the prophylaxis which will enable them not to get HIV and then maybe after that the clients who come to a place because of GBV they have under gone trauma already so we give them cancelling. After cancelling we normally form support groups for them so that they are able to be strengthened so as not to undergo any other form of violence because when gender-based violence is something cultural and it is believed to be continuous, it will be ongoing. So we try to form support groups and try to teach our clients techniques on how not to undergo GBV. So through this it will seem something small but at the end of the day what is impacting somebody psychologically it will enable this person to grow and to grow whatever they had under gone and not to undergo the same thing. So as an organization we are really trying and break the cultural norms which are existing and which are forming gender-based violence tooka so as not tooka. So at the end of the day we will be putting capacity building on the community and also we will be helping the client not to undergo psychological disorders which may also affect the person. And under GBV we always believe that 90% of the people who have undergone gender-based violence become the victims or become the perpetrators of the people who will undergo GBV. So we are trying to break the barriers and also help the community to grow at large. Okay, I like the fact that Getru brought him in the community and as we come to the end of this interview we live in a society that has given us these rules that are supposed to be followed. And you'll find a woman or a man in a situation where they're being violated but because society says that probably you're supposed to stick around or you're supposed to be there for your children, for probably that the society does not view you in a certain way, how now do we now bring in the society to understand that there are limits, there are boundaries in terms of following probably cultures that have been there probably things that we've already found and making sure that we do not put people's lives at risk, Anthony. Thank you once again for that question and I want to restate what I had said before that GBV is both a legal crisis and a social crisis. And for us to be able to adequately address the problem of GBV in this country we must use both legal and social approaches. And the society is the maker of the rules that apply in our lives. And whenever we want to change and to modify these lives to be able to resolve these current issues then we go back to the same society. One of the ways that we can do this is normalizing this conversation. It is no more for us to be able to talk about this thing in our own spheres, in our churches, in our school and everywhere else. Okay, as you wind up, Ketchu, do you give us probably online numbers that are there for people probably if you're experiencing something and you'd like to reach out? From Muema Center, that is Sob Kenya, the number that we are able to give people when you are undergoing GBV you can be able to call is 0800720633. I'll go again 0800720633. You can be able to call and if it's an emergency you can be able to be reached out. And if also you need cancelling through that number you can be given cancelling. And if maybe you need medical help you can be able to help you to get to a facility and get help at the same time. Do you have social media pages? Yes, our Facebook page is called Sob Kenya. You can be able to join in and let's talk about gender based violence. And also we are on Twitter, Sob Kenya. And then also on our website you can check our website where we have more information about sensitization and everything about gender based violence also Sob Kenya. Thank you very much guys for finding the time to be here with us tonight. We promise our viewers an interview on gender based violence, how that affects men, something more detailed. So thank you very much for finding the time to join us on Y254 Updates. This is where our broadcast come to an end tonight. But we meet again next week and talk about more. Continue enjoying our programming. My name is Patricia Murioki. To have yourselves a very good night.