 your host and moderator for the session. The ongoing crisis due to the COVID-19 outbreak is beyond out going to affect all economy and no one is spared across the globe. The magnitude of the crisis has humbled even the most powerful nation and businesses. Well, the world will find a solution to fight the coronavirus and businesses will be back on track. But for that to happen, startups will need to utilize this downtime to rethink and probably re-strategize to hit the ground running for the crisis. In this series, we'll talk to entrepreneurs who are adapting and staying above the water. First of all, let me lay the house tools for the day for our attendees. The panel discussion will go on for 30 minutes. This will be followed by a Q&A session for the next 15 minutes. If you have any questions during the course of the discussion, you can post them to the Q&A option. We'll take up the questions post the panel discussion. We would also request attendees to keep the questions within the scope of the discussion here today. Let me now introduce and welcome a very special guest for the day, Mr. Arvind Sanka, co-founder Rapido. Welcome, Arvind. Thanks, Arvind. Thanks for having me. Thank you for agreeing to be a part of our series. I hope the attendees who are here will benefit. So just to introduce Rapido to our attendees, Rapido is a bike taxi aggregator and was founded in 2015. It's headquartered in Bengaluru and Rapido offers its services in around 95 cities at the moment. So, Arvind, just to start with what you would want to know from you that when the crisis started, when it hit the first, what was the biggest worry that you had, the biggest challenge that you saw coming to you at that point in time? Yeah, I think, so did we anticipate this to come? I don't think anyone has anticipated in terms of how to plan for this or what is going to get impact because of this, but I think when we heard that this lockdown is a kind of that's going to happen maybe in the next two days or within a week, we sense this is coming because right from before the lockdown has announced around a week or 10 days before, we are present in various tier one and tier two cities. We haven't seen a lot of impact in smaller cities, but people in tier one cities as the companies have given work from home or people started traveling less, we started seeing the impact on the business coming down in a lot of tier one cities on week before the lockdown, but we didn't see anything in tier two, tier three. So we thought maybe there might be some city-specific lockdown that might happen so we are okay, we can be prepared, et cetera, but all of a sudden, Pan India are going into lockdown. Definitely it has impacted, but a bigger worry for us is more about maybe a people like our tech team or an operations team maybe can work from home, but what is it for our captains or our driver partners? What is it for them or how can they even make money because there are a lot of people who are dependent on us, there are a lot of people who make extra money with Rapido, so how will that change to them? I think that is our major worry and all the initiatives that we took is majorly to address those and that is the primary thing that we had on board compared to anything else. Okay, so what was the first thing that you did? I mean, why ask this is that we have a lot of aspiring startup owners and founders here, so they would want to know that when this kind of something as I was mentioning to you that in no kind of business modeling, would you have foreseen such a situation where your revenue goes completely to maybe near zero? So what was the first thing that you did? You bought your team, what did you decide? Hey, this is what we are going to do from here now. Yeah, I think so first thing that we have done is we kind of, we started, see there are the uncertainties definitely to the employees and also to the captains on what's going to happen or how are we well-produced or well-planned for it. So one thing that we started, so there are a lot of products that were in pipeline, there were a lot of planning that was there but never implemented before. For example, the first thing that we have done post the lockdown is we started a weekly, all hands meeting for our employees. So earlier we used to meet once in a month or once in a quarter to update on what's happening, et cetera, et cetera. But the first thing that we have done is I think we have to over communicate to our employees in terms of what's happening in our mind or what are the initiatives that we are taking to make sure that we are well-produced, both from the employee safety perspective and also on the company financial perspective. So that is one thing that we implemented right from the next for the first week after lockdown. And the other thing that we have also done is we started the captain fund. So we said, okay, the contribution from the founders, employees and also the friends and families for our customers majorly. We started a fund and we started distributing daily essential to few of our captains. I mean, the challenges we have more than 300,000 captains who are dependent on rapido. But we have taken on the priority basis who are in the well-need of money, well-need of daily essentials who are most impacted. We started prioritizing for those captains and we started distributing daily essentials or distributing some amount of money on a weekly basis to these captains. That is the first thing that we have done. And the second thing is we know the recovery is going to happen maybe within a month or two months. I mean, when it started, we were planning for, okay, a month later when the recovery is going to come, how can we build the trust for our customers? How can we build the trust to our captains in terms of the safety measures that we are taking? So there are more than six to seven safety measures that we started taking and started communicating to both our customers and captain community in terms of having mask as mandatory thing. So if the customers are captains, if any one of them doesn't have a mask post this lockdown, then both of them have a right to cancel the ride. And also we are educating both the side of stakeholders or customers and captains to ensure the safety is taken care of by themselves. And if you see, the reality is not, everyone can work from home. So the commute has to happen for the lockdown because there are a lot of sales executives who work, who use rapid or the lot of say, beauticians, electricians, plumbers, who use rapid or for the daily commute. Because the reality is majority of Indians doesn't own the vehicle yet. They have to use something or the other and we are much safer than any other ride sharing option compared to public transportation, which is again a closed environment, compared to a shared auto, compared to and shared rickshaw, anything. We are much more, because it's an open environment and you are closer to the captain but you're not facing the captain and you're not touching the captain, you're sitting on a bike. So there are some measures that we are taking to ensure right from sanitizing the bike to hand sanitizer to wearing the mask as mandatory, having our OQC2 app as mandatory thing for all the captains before they're going online. So there are few, these are few things that we are doing to ensure there is a trust that builds to our customers and captains. I think that is those are few things that we are doing. The other major thing that we have done is how can we, during this lockdown, how can we still ensure few of our captains will meet the likelihood? And the first major thing that we have done is entering into logistics. So earlier also we used to do logistics and we used to work with various aggregators but this just got enhanced apart from going to just food. We went into grocery also and now we are going to work with not only a bigger aggregators, but also going to a smaller direct to consumer brands or Kirana stores who want to deliver to their end user. So these are few things which where we have done, we have done initiatives to ensure there is an additional demand for our captains to make additional income. So just in last three months, three weeks, our food delivery or grocery as a category, we scale it more than three times just in three weeks because there's definitely a huge demand and I will definitely say that there are very few companies who are solving an on-demand logistics problem because we have huge feet on street or huge captains on ground. The liquidity is the key and we were able to fulfill those demands. So I think these are some ways where we are still doing essential deliveries and making at least meet few of the livelihoods for our captains during these tough times. So you have moved away from your core business that was and adapted to the situation definitely, but there are smaller players also which we've come across a lot of people who are also kind of doing this. But if not the same thing, similar sort of thing. So that is only that much of space for everyone. So how do you see and also how do you see that getting shared by different players first? And second is that, is this just a temporary adaptation or is this something which we're going to see which is going to stay with you for a longer period of time? You found an opportunity here right now. Yeah. So I'll treat this in two different ways. One, I think whenever, so there is some kind this is something which we haven't imagined that this kind of thing is going to come. I mean, whenever we do some kind of scenario planning or business planning, you will say, okay, instead of 5% growth, well, we go to 3% growth or maybe minus 5% degrowth, but you'll never plan for zero revenue kind of scenario for sure. But I think what happened for us is we have seen what are our strengths and how can we leverage this opportunity? I mean, whenever we are looking at, this is your core business, but there are some strengths to us. So for example, if you see our strengths is our dispatch in terms of the way our operations work. So we are definitely asset-lite. So 100%, we don't own any of the vehicle. We don't, even though we are, we are present in hundreds of cities, we have around 350 to 400 people strength. So we are definitely a lot of slight and the impact on our financials are a lot different compared to maybe some other companies. But the strength for us is the dispatch and the captain network and also a geographical presence. So we are not present in one city or two cities. We are present in hundreds of cities. So that gave us an opportunity to solve something big throughout the country and which aligns to our vision, which is we look at our customers. We have two customers, not only our customers, but our captains are also a major part of our business. So we thought this is solving our captain's earning opportunity. This is solving our captain utilization. Earlier, we were doing logistics quite from more than a year back. We started delivering food for more than a year back, but what happened right now is now this opportunity is just not, we used to have logistics as nine to 10% of the business, but post this COVID we see the logistics being more than 25% of all business. I think definitely that kind of opportunity is something which we were not seeing it earlier, but now it has just scaled it because of this opportunity in that way, but still this aligns to our vision, which is to solve your earning opportunity for your captains. And hence you can reduce the customer pricing or it can help you to, so the even more number of customers because you can reduce the price and then it can be attracted to a lot of mass audience. So it aligns to our vision and definitely a great opportunity which we were maybe under playing earlier, but now we are planning to maybe go for it at a full on. So kind of this situation has given you the opportunity to do something which you were not sure of doing till now, but now kind of the necessity has for that before. Yeah, for sure. I think maybe this is something where I use in view of the discussions. So Rapido has in, it's not a one year company. So we have been in the market for more than four to five years and Rapido is our second startup where we pivoted from a previous earlier company called the Carrier to Rapido. So if you see our first three years of Rapido, we play the game to not to lose. We, a lot of people ask what is the differentiation for Rapido compared to, there are more than 30 different companies who started by taxi in 2015 when we started, but because of the market situation because of maybe the market at the time, we played the game just to not to lose and we just, existence is a differentiation at the time. We don't want to die. That's how we played for the first three years. And if you see the last one year, we played to win. We were like, we have all the power and the market has changed and let's go all in. And now if you ask me, how are we going to play now? I think we are going to see the market on how it reacts to it, but definitely now we are in a position to play either ways. Either we can, so either we can play offense or we can play defense, but being a founder, we are wearing both the hats in the same day. And we are looking at opportunities and we are going to a lot of opportunities. We are going at much more faster pace. I'll give you a lot of examples that made this situation where the team has came in together and shipped a lot of products. If you see, we recently launched something called Rapido Local, which is peer-to-peer logistics. So if you want to send anything, you're sitting at home, you want to send something to your friend or you need to get something from a grocery shop, you can use our logistics, which earlier was not available. And this has been shipped between 10 days, right from the day we started, we thought of developing it. And these are some things where earlier, we thought this will take a month or so to come range from do the product thinking and then finally ship the product. But these kinds of things has definitely enhanced. I mean, team understands these things for sure. I mean, earlier, to a very early stage startups, a lot of burden goes to only founders. Okay, you think that, okay, we need to, how do you come back? How do you think, et cetera? But once you are a bit more than mature stage of more than a series here, a series where you have hundreds of employees, unless you get a buy-in from your employees, you can't do a lot of things. You can't ship a lot of products because they have to understand the market. They also have to buy-in in terms of why are we doing it? Unless they are used to them, consult your users of investors. So I think that is a great sign for us, especially where a lot of teams have taken, have contributed to it. I will tell you in last five weekends, I don't think we have any weekend as a concept, especially for our teams. So it's both good and bad, but it's a need of an hour and people understand that. And I think these are definitely few positives we see. A lot of assumptions we are making, but I will see, for us, at least post-lockdown, we are seeing a huge opportunity that is there. If you play it right, we are going to be a fast test. We will have definitely a fast test recovery compared to any other right sharing, but we can actually make it counted. So you just mentioned about saying above the water. So is that something that you would also want to tell other who have the resources that right now, you have to stay above the water and come what may. So would that mean that you take decisions which you would not have taken otherwise, but the need might be there that you need to take some decision. Would that be something that you would say to? Oh, I think now I think it applies not only for early stage companies. A lot of series B, C, D of any kind of companies. A lot of companies, I think the first thing that they are taking care is how long, how can you increase your runway? Because of this uncertainty, you never know how long you can, maybe you can last, irrespective of whether you raised billions of dollars or you raised hardly close of rupees, right? I think that is the primary thing. So whatever we do, whatever initiative that you take, definitely you can go offence compared to a defense, but if that changes your equation of your runway and you are in that uncertainty for long, I think the first underlying thing is if you have plans in a way that you have enough runway or you exist in the market, for example, there are a lot of companies who are just starting it up or who want to just raise capital. I mean, definitely they have to think that it will take some more time than what you plan for. So maybe instead of fighting for growth, instead of fighting for how to change the business model, I think focusing on product building capabilities. I mean, that's what exactly what we are doing internally. We are building a lot of capabilities which are going to be benefited once a lockdown ends. It might be two months from now or six months from now or a year from now, but these capabilities are long term capabilities, especially for a companies like us, but a lot of early stage companies who haven't raised money or who are raising for the first time, definitely a good thing is they don't have a lot of overhead from the cost. So I personally suggest them saying that, I mean, just stay, don't give it up. I think the only thing that, I mean, the startups are known for is you definitely need to see the end. I don't think giving it up at least at this kind of thing because it's not in your control. There's no point of giving it up right now. I think you need to stretch to an extended, I think you tried for long. I think that's what Rapido is. When Rapido has started, we hardly had money for two months. We had to start something. We had to do something in a market which is highly uncertain, highly competitive, but we just stayed there. We just tried to solve problems. We just tried to build capabilities and then slowly it paid for us. Can you also have to take part with people during the period what was the toughest part, the decision that you have to take with the entire group? I think, see, if you see the last one year has been very great for us. We scale more than 10 times in the last 18 months. So definitely there are a lot of, a lot of employees who has given their more than 100%. But I mean, so we haven't taken a lot of a lot of tough calls because one thing with Rapido, because I think you're talking about the first time, one thing about Rapido is we were always, always, respectively whether we had money or we don't have money, we never spent lavishly. So we always have two years of runway respect you of when you raise money. So that gave us leverage and that gave the conference to the team that I don't think we are running out of money anytime soon. But what made them think is we don't want to come to the situation where we are taking a tough calls. So that is what, I mean, we have not taken a tough calls yet and we don't want to take because if we have invested on people and I think the opportunity is wide open. So the only thing that we could prepare is what if we take instead of six months of recovery what it takes if it takes one year, are we well agile enough to do something even more faster? Because I remember three years back, the way that we used to ship products versus maybe a year back, we used to ship products were different as we scale. But if you see in the last two months, the way that we started shipping products, like I could see what we used to do four years back when we just started. I think that is what a great sign. And I think, so the major worry for us is we were not able to help a lot of captains. We were able to help maybe 10% or 15% of the captain, but there are still a lot of captains whom we are not able to help. So the reason we are like going aggressive on scaling logistics and because that is the other way of making money for these captains. So what's your question that I mentioned to you and I would want to know from you that some other people that we have spoken to during this period, a lot of newer models are evolving where people are collaborating. Like I'll give you an example of that. So do you also think that under shared mobility also, I mean, of course, there already has been as you said that you were doing so much over delivery for a bit. But would there be more collaborations that would be going forward for them? I think this is something where fundamentally Rapido believes in, where if you have to scale, you have to take help of someone or you have to help someone. That's the reason from last, more than a year, we started working very closely with the leading food delivery companies, et cetera. Even though a lot of people might see it's a direct competition where our captains are their drivers, their drivers are our captains. But if you see fundamentally, there is a benefit for people to partner with us because for the kind of scale that we have and the kind of optimization that we have, no one else can provide at the price point that we deliver a good from one place to other. I think anyone can leverage that strength. Why should I restrict to myself? Or why should I restrict to one or two companies that they are? So that's the reason I think collaboration is going to be a way. It's not only for us right now, but I see because post-COVID, one thing that is going to happen is a lot of marketing spending is going to go down for every company, every established company or very early stage companies. So especially when your marketing dollars are less, how can you reduce your cap is by piggybacking on someone. So maybe someone has that distribution power, uses distribution power. Someone has that CapEx who has already invested in, go and leverage that CapEx that he has built in. So I think in that way, we see, I mean, we are also working with a lot of other, maybe a bike rental companies who has a lot of vehicles that are sitting idle. Maybe some of our captains want the vehicle, they can just rent it out from them. In that way too, the other way, as I said, is delivery companies. So we are working very closely with every grocery or food delivery company and helping them to deliver to the end user. So I see at least in our sector for sure, and I see that going to represent in every other industry, not only with our industry. Also, I was just to connect. So we're also seeing a lot of development happening in the hyper-local space in delivery in terms of, you know, for three beings. So you think that that's also one space that's going to help your kind of business. You mean hyper-local? Hyper-local deliveries, you know, where people would want their groceries because now people would not want to move out of their houses. They would want things to come rather to their places from our trusted brand, from our trusted, the thing. So do you think this also opens up a lot of opportunity for this kind of, you know, to ask my, you know... Yeah, Saurav, I think one thing that, again, as we have seen, as I said earlier, hyper-local was restricted to few categories, like food, maybe, or something else which has good margins, but it was not extended to other categories. But I definitely see, as more number of people sitting at home, the hyper-local need for, apart from food as a category, is going to increase. And definitely it's going to, because we're talking about layoffs, we're talking about salary cuts, we're talking about recession, et cetera. So now the power of people paying for high delivery price, again, that is the only other variable because definitely safety is a factor, but people also have a constraint on how much can they pay. So the major thing is, there should, hyper-local is going to be, is going to take off, but if it comes at a cost of very high delivery price, then again, it restricts the demand. So that's the reason, if anyone can figure out the delivery fee being less, then I definitely see hyper-local growing at much more faster pace than it is growing, it was growing in the last two, three years. So moving to something else, so overall, overall, how do you see the mobility space, post the shared mobility space, post the COVID era? How, what new things are we going to see? How it's going to change from what it is right now and how it's going to be? Yeah, so I think like any other industry, one commonality is the safety, taking extra measures for safety and gaining the trust from the users is going to be a key. So one thing in, again, even in transport or shared mobility, there are two transport needs. For example, people going to airport, people going for a business travel or people going to leisure travel for outstation, et cetera, that's going to take a hit for sure. I think people are, what people are going to do post COVID is definitely reduce the unnecessary commute, but only travel the necessity commutes, et cetera. So a good thing is we are in a necessity commute kind of use case where you are going to an office every day or a college every day and you have to have to travel and because it's a daily need, you look for an option which is cheaper and which is also faster and that's where a rapido comes face. So we see that's as a positive sign, but definitely people going in public transportation, people going in shared commute, like you're traveling with someone whom you don't know, et cetera, that's going to take a hit. So that's the reason if you can build additional safety measures and gain the trust, and especially for us people who are going on public transportation or shared mobility, other shared mobility along with other users, this is the right time for us to definitely attract those users and provide a safer option compared to other options. Now the only thing is because 80% of Indians doesn't own the vehicle, will people go and buy the vehicle just within a month or two months post lockdown? It's going to take time. People are going to save money, people don't know the uncertainty is going to come so they don't want to invest a lot of money upfront. So that is going to happen. So but still they will look for some other safer commute option. So if you were able to be a safer to any other compared to any other ride sharing, then I think then you will have an edge. So I think that is how it's going to change. It comes with additional safety as an options. So you have to take care of safety and build a trust for both the captains and the customers especially. So does that drive the cost of your operations? And you know, will that mean? And I'm talking about a cross board. I mean, even for a company which provides services in home or even any kind of these services. So there's going to be an additional cost of all these safety measures, yeah, visors or anything. So does that mean that, you know, the unit charge to customers is going to get a thing upwards? Yeah, I think definitely yes. And I don't think it's, it's to our category. But for all the other categories, they have to take a retail industry, right? If you are an offline merchant, right now every grocery shop has one guy outside who is just giving his hand sanitizer to the users, right? And who will pay the salary of him? Who will pay the salary of sanitizer? I mean, the price of sanitizer. So definitely it comes with additional cost. But I think what we understand from the users from our service, et cetera, is definitely people are okay to pay a bit extra to the additional features that you are going to take. But again, as I said, once, if you don't factor in that, if that cost shoots up massively, then again, you are not going to attract, you're not solving for a mass audience. So it's always, again, a trade-off. But I think it will be additional cost, but again, the beauty of market places like us is how can you ensure that it will be minimal and you will not just be a directly proportional to your scale. Okay, all right. So I'll just have one more question before we move to a question to the audience, is that how do you see the investments and the cycle of the investor change now? Will it like earlier, I'm sure, things which were easy to be said will not be now because you have to change them all. So a lot of people, as I mentioned, would have been ready with their business models, but they'll have to go back and maybe rethink before they go to the investor. So what would be your advice for people who plan to go to investors right now? Yeah, I think just to wait, to wait it out and start their businesses maybe once, in a slightly better position. Yeah, I think so generally, do and again, if you're talking about early-stage companies who have interest capital, so at least this is what works for us. Or again, there is no one recipe of how can you borrow your investors. But I think if your business model makes sense on Excel and if you're able to answer at least on Excel on your assumptions, I think that is enough for me at least. So if you're able to convince the investor saying that why there are some assumptions that you have taken or how can you see the signs of it happening, then at least you can talk to investors, but you yourself can't answer to a lot of your assumptions. Then I don't see any point you going and brainstorming with your investors on whether you can raise money or not. And one definitely a thumb rule is it's going to take more time than what you thought of. Earlier you might have thought I can raise money within two, three months, then maybe it might take some more time. And at least for very early stage startups, now they have to be prepared in terms of questions key. What is your customer behavior post COVID and whether the need that you are solving will that exist at least for the next one year? If that doesn't exist, then definitely yes. Your investment is going to be delayed more than earlier. So I think that is the additional preparation that is required for startup founders. But someone who has already raised money, I think they already know the changes. So yeah, they know how tough it is to raise money. I'm sure that they're going to be a sweet spot between both the investors and the company for startups or founders to get that right kind of funding at the right time maybe. So we'll just move on to questions. So this was one question that we got from Ratshik Sonsalya, it was made to us. So it says given where the market is at the moment and Rappido's user base expecting a transportation solution from them, would Rappido open other avenues of serving their user base? They buy credentials where the customer is independent. They can take the buy, maybe even go maybe something like that. Yeah, again, so if you see our vision is more about how can you be accessible, unaffordable to users? And our philosophy is asset-lite. So we believe in that in terms of how can you build a business model where you are asset-lite but still your stakeholders get maximum out of it. That is for example, our captains in this case. So I don't want to specifically comment about our thought process on rental or any other sector. But if our customers need any other way of commute and if they see that we are not solving the need right now but you will see us solving for their fundamental need, right now it might look for a bike maybe if you're asking maybe a year from now if it changes, whether it will be adopt, it will definitely adopt. But right now, again, we are sticking to what we are doing and we want to master in what we are doing. That is something which helped us till now in terms of being laser-focused on what we are doing and solving that. And if it falls under that, why not? So right now, again, the focus is to solve the transportation need on a bike, what are the additional measures that you have to take and build a class? And the other thing is, how can your captains make additional income? So we are only looking at these two things and whatever initiative that we take will fall under these two solving these two needs. But I think, you know, every business would be open to a lot of things and adaptation and that's one of the what you can do with this as well. So I think that would be a new normal, I would say. Yeah, definitely. Again, as I said, whether we'll adopt is definitely yes. We will adopt new business models. But good thing is now we have a team who can also contribute into a lot of our thinking. It's not about what I think versus what the other founder think. It's more about if it makes sense as a leadership, if it makes sense as a team to do something new, then we'll definitely adopt the new needs. One question that we've got here is that how are you going to get your captains to need not be so that they are not so fearful to service what would be the high boost that would be safe to save that boat driver and that was of course to some part of your board. Yeah, so I think especially I want to talk a little bit about captains. So here definitely captains are also or maybe once after this lockdown, one captain will be traveling with more than can do 15 different customers. So captain being more impacted is higher than the customer. So what we want, at least from the captain's side is we are taking every measure where the captain is protected. I mean, right from providing insurance to our captain, say even in case something happens where we don't want him to be financially troubled from this COVID situation. So we are going to offer him both insurance on the health side and also possibly cash kind of a product. That is one thing that we are doing it. But the other thing is also again, as I said, distributing hand sanitizer, distributing mask to our captains and ensuring they are. So we are going to take feedback both from the customers and also captains whether the other guy is wearing the mask or not. And we are going to be, we are going to take very stringent steps on ensuring that people do it because definitely we don't want both side of our stakeholders, both the customers and captains getting impacted. So I think those are again, as I said, apart from safety measures that we are taking, insurance is one other thing to be at least on the captains to make sure that they are well-producted both financially also. So now we have a question we'll give the, if we can give the audio to Mr. Aditya Vikram Kapoor. Hi Erwin, thank you so much for the fantastic insights on how RAPIDO is planning on ensuring the safety. Just wanted to understand that now that you've entered, as you mentioned that you were also looking at that earlier, the last mile delivery space, do you see an increase in adoption of electric cycles and how is RAPIDO opening themselves to alliance, getting into an alliances in this segment? Thank you. Yeah, sure. So again, maybe see right now, if you see the way that RAPIDO works, we work with captains who has their own vehicles already and who want additional income from their existing asset that they already own. So that is one of the things where we think we need to empower people who are already invested. But if you've seen the last six months, definitely there are definitely new things that we are exploring in terms of how can we open up a platform beyond people who haven't given vehicle to, people who don't even have the vehicle, but who wants to make money. And that's where our partnership with a few of the bike rental companies has been played a role where you don't have a bike, you can rent a bike and then start making money. So definitely if you're asking me that are we aligned to partner with anyone, definitely yes. Again, whether it is electric or petrol, again, we don't have that kind of priorities, but I strongly believe electric vehicles, especially electric two-wheelers in India can only scale with either last-man delivery or with people transportation because there are more savings if you travel more and more travel can only happen for delivery or for a taxi. But for your daily commute, you hardly travel 10, 15 kilometers, you can't get your benefit of spending extra on the Capex. So definitely if there is any player who are ready to rent out or lease their electric vehicles to our captains, the only thing is we need to have enough takers for that product, but definitely we are more aligned for collaborate and then doing it. We already did a lot of pilots. Definitely we have very strong belief that electric vehicles in India will take off only with two-wheelers and that will be taxi or bill. And we are better positioned because we do cross utilization, our drivers travel more than 100 to 120 kilometers per day, so which your savings are a lot more compared to a petrol vehicle and electric vehicle. All right, Arvind, thank you so much. Next question will take from Praveen Prakash. Can we have the audio of Praveen please? Okay, I think we are moving. I'll just read out the question to you, Arvind. How do you foresee about the future of ride-sharing business as people are quite sceptic about ride-sharing due to COVID-19? What measures need to be taken for betterment of ride-sharing business? I think he wants to have an overall view of that. How do they feel safe about the future of ride-sharing? Yeah, I think maybe kind of where I answered it earlier in terms of how do you build a trust of your users from the safety measures? Again, I've said, if you see globally, again, apart from India, other countries where they have gone through lockdown and post-lockdown, what are the measures that they have taken? I think there's a lot of learnings that they can take from China, a lot of learnings that they can take from maybe Australia or New Zealand, which where they are in the phase of post-lockdown and where they started seeing a three-recovery. So there are definitely some of the measures in terms of ensuring safety, whether you're traveling on a cab, whether you're traveling on a bus, whether you're traveling on a bike, what are the additional measures that you can take? Again, a few of the things which I talked earlier, but a few of the things is more about communicating to your users, both your customers and captains, in terms of what are the measures that you are taking? Because a lot of people don't know what are the measures that you are taking, so making them transparent in terms of what you are doing. Again, in our case, again, I talked about ensuring from the captain side, ensuring other people say to app or having masks as mandatory or hand sanitizing a bike before and after every ride. So these are some things on a bike, at least for us perspective, but maybe the similar solution might be there for an auto or a cab. But it's more about build additional trust. And I think all the necessity commute will happen. So you write sharing is the way to go, because I don't think people can buy vehicles any time soon in the next six to eight months for sure. Okay, all right. Next, we'll take a question from Abhishek Singh. Hey, Saurabh, thank you. Yes, sir. Am I audible? Yes, Saurabh, please go ahead. Thank you, Saurabh. Thank you, Saurabh. Arvind, this is great to know the efforts Rapido is taking for the well-being of the captains and giving a runway to them as well. Who goes to that, Arvind? So my question is around, during the situation, a lot of captains would have shifted base from one city to another, or would have found another way, another means of livelihood. So my question is, how are you taking care of the availability of captains to your B2C customers? Also because a lot of captains would have now been stable and been accustomed to the B2B segment of the Rapido business. Yeah, Abhishek, I think it might be a bit controversial that I am what I'm going to talk. But trust me, I don't see people have got any other opportunities to make money. People are losing jobs. People are not having enough ways to make money. I mean, we have enough stories. I mean, that's the reason we feel really bad where whenever we get some comments on Facebook where we are helping, but still there are a lot of people still looking out for jobs, right? So that's the reason I see if we are able to take enough safety measures, I think I am seeing, see during COVID, during lockdown in red zones, we are doing deliveries. I mean, people are risking their lives just because they don't have any other way to make money. And that is the kind of reality. And we really feel bad when we ask them to go to red zone and deliver. But people are sitting at home and you also need to serve your users who are not able to come out. And that is you can at least control the safety measures of the captains because they are coming through our market places. So that's where the technology plays a role at least on the, especially on the B2C side also ensuring that people are not getting dropped at the red zone areas or people are not getting picked up from red zone areas. So there are additional measures that we can take to ensure they're not going to very high contentment areas. But trust me, I don't see people got an opportunity to make money elsewhere. So if we can ensure the safety of our captains, we see captains believing on the platform and coming back and making their livelihood earlier as how they used to do. So I think that's the reason we are more focused on make them feel safer and we see people coming in. All right. Thank you so much. I have a very interesting question from an attendee. I hope you would want to answer that one. What are your plans for employer fees? What are your plans? Appraisals. I think that's what I covered when you said what are the tough calls that we have taken. One of the tough calls is to the majority of our employees who has really performed well in the last one year, even though we are not able to give them cash appraisals, we are giving them equity appraisals to all our employees who has given their best efforts. I think being invested through equity through our employees earlier, because as we crossed over series B to a lot of our employees, only to certain scale of employees we used to give us ops, but now post is COVID where we were not able to give cash hikes because again, every month of additional runway is good for us and good for well-being of the company than an individual. So that's the reason we took a call. Again, we talk to every employee, we talk to all the leadership and we took a buy-in saying that we are going to give equity-based appraisals than cash-based appraisals, at least for this cycle. And when a lot of companies are doing huge mass layoffs, I think we are the only travel company, at least I'm proud to say that we didn't do any mass layoffs. That's very good news from you and Arjun because a lot of people, we have heard about layoffs and that's it. I mean, of course, businesses are under pressure so they don't have to think of the same that we're going to give them. I hope that things can very soon change. Any last thoughts from you before we say goodbye to everyone? Yeah, I think so to a lot of entrepreneurs who are just starting or who are going through a tough phase, I think COVID might be the first thing that, I mean, a lot of investors, a lot of people who has gone through 2001, 2008 crisis told that they have never seen things like this earlier, even though there are financial crisis that happened, it's the first of its kind. So it's definitely not in our control but I will definitely say COVID is not the only thing that at least as a founder that we face. At every phase, there are difficulties. I mean, at least when Rapido has started four years back, a lot of investors didn't believe that we can actually go through it. A lot of investors haven't, no one thought that people will sit behind a stranger. No one thought that along with a competition we can actually try through. So there will be uncertainties. COVID is only one among those uncertainties but this is something which might take much more time than what you expected. But as a founder, again, as I said, being exist in the market, that is going to be your differentiation and I am pretty sure that if you pass through it, a lot of people say, again, I'm not the only one but if you can have a base that you can pass through it, I think you can get best out of it. I think that's what happened for us. We have gone through our own personal crisis in 2016 when a lot of companies are not getting funded or 2017, first three years where we were not able to raise a lot of money when a lot of players were able to raise a lot of capital. But what we only focused on is if we are adding additional value to the users, if we are able to solve a very big need, especially in our case, we were very confident that things will change but we just need to wait till the time. Sometimes it might come at much, much more faster pace but I don't think any company get successful just like that. People will go through this crisis. COVID is one among that. So I don't want people to give it up for sure. I think that's what an entrepreneurship means. We never came with a mindset of I will give up if things are bad. So I think stay there. Definitely it's going to take some more time. People understand. So it's not a failure from your side. I think there is a personal advice that I wish I wanted you to founders who are just starting, who are just raising money and who are getting, or who are getting demotivated when investors are saying no. I went to more than 100 investors personally and only one investor said yes. So I think I have enough experience to say that yeah, there will be a lot of rejections and then yeah, it's okay. Thank you so much. I mean, I think that, you know, like someone who's, someone told me that there's a worry about that we go to 100 people back then, you know, you just need one person to say yes to, you know, to believe in you with that. And of course, this culture when, you know, everything, everyone's worried about what's going to happen in the next two, three months. Great encouragement from you for the coming times. And we can see that, you know, hopefully for COVID we will find ways to, you know, overcome the situation and everything will be, you know, if not normal immediately, but we'll find ways to make ourselves safe and start this wheel of the economy start again. So thank you so much for being with us today here on our Rebellion series. And thank you to our attendees as well for coming in. And I hope to see you on again during the series and have at least once a week and stay safe, stay strong and hopefully we'll all try it together. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you very much. So it's a pleasure. Thanks very much for having me here, but happy to learn from your rest of the series also. Sure, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks guys, bye.