 And we are live welcome welcome to the fourth installment of this read-along We are at Temple of the Winds which we have low-key been hyping the whole time being like and then when we get to Temple of the Winds we have gotten to Temple of the Winds. So we now need to live up to the hype. I mean I feel like I feel like it do would be I Would I would be very surprised if someone read it and was like that was completely fine And normal and perhaps even boring. What are you taught? I'd be like, okay. I don't know your life Hello everybody We are I guess we'll do I mean it's a series and whatever so I guess we'll do non-spoiler a little bit But like I feel like you're here because either you've read it or you don't care about spoilers But like we'll do a little non-spoiler Hello everybody. Hello Hello Hello and Jessica's mom Nora is home Stay I don't want to say too much publicly, but I'm glad Nora's doing well. Yeah. Yeah, she said Nora's here to you and she says hi That's her mom Alrighty so good Hello everybody Okay, so The most non-spoiler thing we can do is what did you rate it? I gave it four stars And do you were you rating books the first time you read it? And if not, what would you have rated it? Do you think I? Also gave it four stars. I think I Was surprised at how much I liked this though You mean the second time or the first the second time Yeah, I was kind of surprised at like I would say this is among my favorites that we've read so far I Mean, okay, so I was not rating books the first when I was reading the series like I did not know that Goodreads existed Which I assume it did So I when I did join Goodreads, I went through and like rated a bunch of books that I had read That's what I yeah, I did so like it had been quite some time since I'd read Temple of the Winds But I was I just you know my trauma So I was like I I mean I I'm giving that to But it wasn't like fresh off of reading it. So the existing rating As it stood before I read it reading it now was like me hazarding a guess at a two and this time around I gave it a three not a two and but it is I Get it's not it's a pretty high three But also like I because like I did consider giving it a four But I was like no absolutely not because half the reason that I was okay with stuff this time was because I went in Already knowing what I would be facing in this book And I was like no if you read this for the first time right now And you had we're not completely ready for how ridiculous his book is you would be like what? But you were ready for it this time so you could just be like oh and then okay That's this part and we're at this part and here we go with this part. So like it's not Sam Yeah Yeah Yeah, Jessica same honestly, I gave it for the first time I read it also Although I was also probably my four at the time that I rated it was more like my three now So I think I actually technically bumped it up as well But yeah, I don't know I Think it's interesting when you think of it I don't know that I agree with that. I did feel like Blood of the Fold was a stepping stone for Temple of the Winds Yeah, but I feel less that way about Temple of the Winds to Soul of the Fire. I would agree It was a five until I read faith because you like Faith of the Fallen that's my it was my favorite the first time So I'll be very curious Those of it those are the two that I was most curious to reread during this read-along Temple of the Winds because it's bonkers and then Faith of the Fallen because at the time It was my favorite, but I knew nothing about his political leanings and was not like paying attention to stuff like that in books So I was like, I don't know maybe that'll jump out at me this time So I'm curious if I'll still like it as much as the second time Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I think What what's interesting to me that I don't think I picked up on the first time I read it is is this is sort of The first time you're at Temple is that you're talking about Temple? Yeah Temple Is I was like, oh, this is like he fantasy Jack the Ripper It's basically what it is. Yeah, which I think once I put that together to make you message me like I didn't remember I was like I remember I had forgotten that part of it I remembered like the temple part, but I had forgotten about the whole like Jack the Ripper murderer thing but I think once I Figured out that that's what he was doing I was less bothered by all of the violence of it. You know what I mean because I'm like, oh, okay This is Jack the Ripper, but in fantasy worlds plus a plague like I don't know I just like it I guess I mean we'll I guess we'll get into that when we get to spoilers But like I don't think this book is like Horrifyingly violent and nothing like that. I just think like it is intensely bizarre It is at times quite gory and whatever and the there's very sexually explicit things that happen It's more just the like the way things happen and the why of things happening is so like What? Like it's not the stab stab. It's the why the stab stab is happening. It's not the sexy times It's the why the sexy time and who the sexy times and where the sexy time is that I'm like, yeah I guess I just find it I guess I just find it more intriguing or like interesting than I do like disturbing if that makes sense You know always at the first time I read temple, I was not Plague so that was yeah a little Timely topical. Yeah Well, I guess what it is is when I was scrolling through and looking at other people's reviews of this Like there are some scathing reviews and a lot of it is about like the violence towards women And I'm like, okay, but like it's a Jack the Ripper serial killer thing like of course If that's what you're doing with this book, of course, that's what it you're gonna have I don't know like basically everything that I have to say about this book is extremely spoilery So like just like broad strokes like yeah, like it is pretty much as crazy as I remember It's more that like my experience of it wasn't as Like hair raising the second time because you know, it's like when you go on a roller coaster the second time Like you know where the loops are you know where the dips are or like the second time you watch a scary movie Like you know when the jump scares are so you're like, okay, this is okay. That's that part. Yeah I know what you know, but the first time through is your when you're like watch So I think like reading at the second time. I was like I did not Like exaggerate the bizarreness in my mind at this time. It's more just that like it feels less Intense to me just because I'm super ready for it because I remember all of this Yeah I think that's fair And I didn't remember all of it. I just remembered parts of it So you've heard that about temple of the winds or about the sort of truth series Because I feel like probably the series probably the series because that's not so much the case in this book Or like it's not more in this than any other right There are people who like hate this book with a passion. That's interesting Yeah, well, so okay That's so like I'll be I'll be vague because we're still not in spoilers But like, you know how before we've said that, you know, are we sure a guy wrote this like because that's you know It's so romantic and it's so like female-centric and there's so many like feminist soap boxing moments that feel like are you sure that This dude who's on the back of the book that guy that he wrote this And like in a very different way, but also in temple of the winds Like why could this comment was saying about how it was contrived like the the way the like There's like the mental gymnastics of like how we arrive at what's going on in the climax of the book the climax of the book Um, it's just it's so like it feels like something out of like a romance novel plot where I would be rolling my eyes at it But I'd be like well in a romance novel you expect that we're going to like orchestrate Contrived plot conveniences to arrive at they're under a tree in the garden and having sex because they had to for some reason But go with it. So like this feels like the high fantasy version of like yeah And just go with me. It's this is what has to be the thing and you're like well, they had to finally actually consummate things I guess in in real life Well, and that's the thing though is that this is not the first time we've said that the books feel in some ways Like they are drawing on the romance genre as well so but yeah But so like I mean, I guess that's where we also sort of get into like genre and like what are expectations you are What are expectations for each genre? And so like when you pick up a romance novel you expect there to be romance you will be like Disatisfied and upset if it is not there and also There are certain like plot beats and plot types and contrivances and coincidences that are like These are genre tropes. Like these are things you expect and so you wouldn't be like um I mean I probably would but you wouldn't be like how convenient this would never happen. You're like, okay But you know, you know, they're going to have like some random reason why they get thrown together And like accidentally collide and kiss or something like that That's gonna happen. That's that's what these books are literally for so like Going into a fantasy book that isn't the set of tropes and expectations that you have So when we arrive at the third act and that's what's going on and we had to like I said do like this insane enshrived Loopy looping of logic to arrive at what you clearly wanted to have happen is and it's so Like it feels like one of those like legal arguments that has clauses it within clauses within clauses and multiple asterisks of like It makes sense because you see This has to be like this except for when this but also when this but not when at the same time as and you're like I'm sorry white You know what though it made for great. It makes for great drama and I think that's what we end up getting I'm I'm I'm I'm happy to go with it. You mean when you see this picture on the back of the book is same Yeah, I mean Yeah Yeah, I mean just feel like a weird thought experiment and I mean, um, because uh, you know a while ago I did a video that was just like generally about the sort of True series and being like here's it's good. Here's what's not so good But like here's here's why I like it. Here's why a lot of people probably don't like it Here's a sort of a fair shake at the series. Um And I went in one of the like sections when I was kind of talking about how he handles Some like that there's kind of a lot of weird sex in these books and that like That's not my favorite thing about these books. Um, but that like it doesn't It doesn't cross the line of bothering me because as weird as it gets and like mainly in my mind. I was like tumbled the winds But I was like as weird as it gets. I was like most of the time When like where we did the thing. Okay. So like let's debrief What was the point of all of that? What was he trying to say with that as like as out there as it was? Yeah, and the the thing that he's trying to say with it is usually a point that like I'm okay with or that I would generally agree with which is why I'm like, did we need all of this to happen? No, it didn't what I prefer that we didn't have all this happen Probably but what you're driving at what you're trying to say with it in the most roundabout weird way Is something that I'm like, I mean I get your point and it's a point that I generally agree with So that's why I'm like I give it a pass Which is I mean certainly with this book and you know, we can talk more about this in the spoiler section of the video, but Everything that happens in the temple. Oh, see this is interesting And that makes a lot of sense honestly reading the books But the thing is is that like everything that happens in the temple Leads us to Richard having a major realization That moves forward his relationship with kaolin And it's an important one and I think it would be if we were in Romance novel land. It would be like a grovel scene at the end. We're also like almost every single one of these books Introduces a new way in which Richard is narrow minds have been blockheaded. Yeah And then by the end of the book He has to realize that he's been stupid and wrong and their own mind didn't blockhead it And I mean this book's blockheadedness had very um A physical component to it. Yeah, so that's the thing he had to get over But I like the message, you know All right, which is like I mean I feel like you could have that message in a less bizarre way like you didn't have to do all that You know why not just just have it this way That's what I mean. That's what I mean. That was just why I'm like, I think it's weird I don't not think it's weird But also I'm not like I don't it's not a book where I would say like how dare you like it's not like I'm angry with it Because I'm like, I don't get why these choices are made but the thing you're trying to say Like I I promise you could have done it a different way But the thing you're trying to say is the thing that's that I'm fine with. Yeah Uh Amanda. Yeah, I kind of like Clarissa and Nathan too. Actually It was kind of like a sweet So shall we just dive into spoilers? Yeah, okay, because I was like look at that man we sat So Clarissa and Nathan feels to me a little bit like a fantasy pretty woman story I've never seen pretty I think I generally know what you're talking about like because I mean it's so in the zeitgeist that like I know when pretty woman is brought up and for what reason so I think I know what you mean Man, it's like the tables have turned lianna But I've heard of it. It's when you you've never heard of peaky wine. It's not same No, but it it is kind of similar in this whole thing of like because then you know in the movie she's Um, you know prostitute, I don't know. Anyway, I think it's got like a similar vibe to it. Thank you, Jessica Yes, this is a good kind. Yes that one that one Um Priscilla, thank you. Priscilla was thinking pretty woman the whole time. Yeah, it totally has pretty woman vibes. Um But fantasy based on my loose knowledge of what that is about. Yes. I I know what you mean. And yeah, it is Uh, yes, I think pretty woman is based on pygmalia and actually loosely. Yeah I think that is correct um, yeah, so it's kind of interesting because we have that side plot and then we have uh You know the whole jack the ripper thing happening, which is disturbing but Okay, so take on it I like Clarissa and like I mean in general like I think terry good kind handles female representation very well like Yeah, and I'll fight anybody that says otherwise. However um We have like a pattern developing of like girls who are interested in richard end up dead Yes, this happens with pasha This happens with the like countess who has like the like charm on him in blood of the fold This happens in this book with um nady nady. I think so. Yeah Uh, yeah, well, I mean because kaylan is the only one I know but like do I need to die? I don't know I mean like and I I I understand like the rest of the plot happening but like I wish That dreffin had been a good Had been as good a brother as he seemed to be because I thought he would be a good foil for richard and a good Like addition to the cast and then have him actually end up with nadine So everyone can be hat like a true romance novel of them end up together But I was like why does dreffin have to be jack the ripper reincarnated? Because he wasn't raised by You know The people that richard was raised by I mean he was a raw Yeah, but we have other raw siblings and other raw. I mean nathan is a raw Well, right nathan is a raw like Yes, but later I mean spoilers for later in the series But it's it's already mentioned in this book So anytime you mention something you're like that's gonna happen at some point So that we already got told that there's a sister out there somewhere and you do see the sister and she's not evil incarnate It seems like a rarity. It's just like we can't have any other man around who is just as hot Just as fit just as talented and charismatic as richard. She's got to be evil Yeah, I mean although he was raised by healers too like they're just like it's clearly one of those like but the seed is evil Yeah Well, and then it turns as it turns out the healers were concerned about him And like this too like I was like, why does she have to die? You introduce a character and you're like, I only needed you for this book. Sorry. You're dead now Yeah, I mean, I think I mean, I think that's fair. I don't think you're wrong. I do think though that Then you would have needed Something else to drive the plot, you know I mean, there could be a jack the river running around. It doesn't have to be driven I guess I just like There was always something a little off about him though Well, yes because terry good kind made him jack the ripper So we wanted to plant seeds of that but like if you just took out those like instances that like You know, they make a huge deal out of the fact that like, you know, his pants are too tight and that's he's evil the fact that uh and I I mean I did kind of also Like again, like this is not a thing where I'm like I want to cancel terry good kind But like one of the things that they use or that kailyn uses in her mind and that is used to get the Readership to be like something's up is the fact that when dreffin is healing cara Oh, he examines her entire body and that kailyn is like very suddenly Puritanical about how he's doing that and he has a valid explanation Like this is not a thing to be but the entire rest of the book She's like and I don't like how he did that and I don't like how he did that And I'm like, okay, but like gynecologists like checks them out So like I don't know why you're making it out like a healer wouldn't have valid reason to be like I gotta see the whole enchilada because her whole being is like messed up from this. I'm healing her like that's valid Like why was that made into like he's clearly evil? Yeah, I mean I don't know. I mean, I guess this is another conversation but like there are also You know gynecologists who use things like that as an opportunity to do abusive things so sure, but like I don't it just feels like I don't know. I wish there would had been something else like a time when he wasn't healing somebody Then he did something like that. Yeah, because like while he's healing her and he's legitimately healing her and has a very good reason For doing what he's doing and he does help her Right, um, like for that to continue for kailyn to continue to be like I don't like that like it's it's weird if he if he had like After car was healed had sort of like had a lingering touch and been like, okay But she's fine now. So like you don't have to keep touching her then something like that But like while he's in the middle of healing her. I was like, he's fine. Like I don't know. You're eating this the second time I know he's jacked the ripper, but right now he's fine What he did is maybe he had a bad vibe. She could just sense that something was off I think that happens but I yeah Yeah priscilla. I think that is True like I think part of it was probably that it was Supposed to be is it is it not? And yeah, yeah, but when you get icky vibes, that's true I mean, honestly like there because there are people where it's like there may be a perfectly reasonable explanation for what they're doing But the vibe is icky That happens I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I'm not saying that there are no people that take advantage of the situations I just feel like I don't know to make it like Just the fact that I don't know because like it that's not really what kaylan thought She was just like, why is your hand there? It wasn't that like You know, I don't know. I just I feel like that. Why would you specifically villainize that? You know what I mean? What you tried to flirt with kaylan that's also true See, but like that's the stuff that like highlight that but the thing that keeps copping up in her mind is his hand on cara uh, and I'm like Okay, but like You know It's like one of those things that I would expect this is just not what yeah I think this is just not one of the but it also seemed out of character for kaylan Because like if richard had been all like his panties in a twist over some man's hand being where it shouldn't be even to be the healer Richard's always the one that's like, well, you can't be naked because that's wrong and like this is not what people do That's wrong and kaylan's always like no, but like in their culture. It's fine and then like they're healers That's what they do. It's fine. So for kaylan to be the one that's like but healers can't touch that part of your body Even if it might need medical attention because no Like that seems like a very richard attitude for her to have Yeah I'm like, usually I think I guess I guess my my feeling is that she was supposed to maybe just have a bad vibe about him But I don't think it was maybe effectively communicated in the text if that's what was happening Well, I mean that's how it was communicated is that like she'd be like he seems really nice except that hand on cara As opposed to like if it had been more vague, you know, and again if it had been a lingering hand after he's already done Um, you know healing her You know, there's there could have been other ways. Yeah But also I have already said that I would have rather not had dreffin be Like I mean, that's what I would have preferred is if if kaylan felt kind of icky about that But then he is actually fine about it and is he is a good healer and is a good brother to richard And in fact, it's a red herring because he's a healer This is a normal thing for a healer to do and you should check your prejudices and biases and they actually have a jackthruper Running around and it's not the healer who had a valid reason to check genitalia. It's this psycho over here who you know, like yeah I would have and again I think it would have be a good foil for richard having somebody who's like just as Physically alpha as he is to be his brother and his friend and be like non magical but like have good, you know Someone to bounce ideas off of and to be a good counterpoint to him. Like I I would have liked that for the rest of the series but now he had to be evil Yeah, I guess I don't think I mean, I think that we're intended to read it that way that kaylan's intuition is better But it just I mean the framing of it. It just bothers me vibe from her experience. Yeah Yeah, I don't know. I guess I just um Yeah, I mean it would be nice for richard but also I don't know. I think I just don't have strong feelings about it either way. I can see I can I can see what you're saying I mean, it's not the weirdest part of this book. No Anyway, um, but we the weirdness starts out pretty early We're like we're getting not weird vibes from druffin necessarily, but weird vibes from temple of the winds early on Yeah, um I mean like equally like I think that the way nadine is written is also kind of like I already said that anyone who's interested in richard ends up dead But also just throughout the is just this like Manipulative like hussy, you know who's like wearing a tighter dress and it's like richard's actually gonna want me Yeah, I didn't lie. I didn't love that It was yeah, I would agree with you Not like at first when it seems like you know when kaylan's like, oh Like I feel bad for her because like she was sent here by the witch woman. She did have a thing for richard She was told is gonna marry him. She doesn't know him from before like of course She would think this and that like she kind of has to get over it Like that would be a great arc for them to like get over their distrust of druffin For nadine to get over her crush on richard and for them to like actually end up together and like join the team But no, not ultimately a romance. It is. Nadine does not deserve to get jack the ripper No, she doesn't and yeah, I well and I think they tried to play it up with the whole thing of like Oh, well, she tried to play the brothers against each other Which was yeah, like kind of not great But again, didn't not deserving of drop the jack the river. Uh, yeah, priscilla. I'm with you. I didn't love That was that was probably among my less favorite parts of the book was the way they handled her I didn't but I know you haven't been for so yeah, I listened to it. This narrator was not great but Yeah, I mean I like the temple of the winds itself Which is because like I feel like the name temple of the winds to me is so like You know, it's this book and I'm always like temple of the winds It's weird. So then it's like weird for me to divorce the actual temple of the winds From like the name because I'm like it's weird like no, no, but the temple is fine. The temple is actually like interesting and cool um So yeah Yeah Yeah, the guy did pronounce kale. He said it. Uh, callan or callan Callan callan travaro That was annoying. Um Uh-oh Did he do like gruff awful voices for that? I don't remember. I just kind of I No Yes, they all have different narrators, which is why I don't know why it's absurd I don't know why they just kept switching the narrators callan. Yeah, it was callan I don't know why yeah It was not he was not a great, uh Yeah Well, I think too just because like I read all these books, you know, physically years ago I'm like, I have everyone's like names and voices in my head already. And like I just don't think unless you're stupid pacy I'm good like I'll just read them. I I got this. I know what I how they sound in my mind That's fair. I think I just like I haven't had time. I've just had so much going on. I've I'll just like get my entire tbr and audio except for the sort of truth book That works. Oh evil cackling. Well, I've let chipmunk. Yeah, that's true Um Well, I mean the most the most weird book part of this book is at the end So like let's move sort of like we drift and touching cars pretty early on so if we want to move sort of chronologically Through what what is I mean Nadine is like a big chunk of it. Obviously. Yeah I mean again, I don't love the way Nadine was handled because I think you're right like anybody who gets too close to richard Is kind of gonna end up dead it seems like because Richard and kaolin nothing can touch them Which I mean honestly like I don't know, you know like that their love isn't stronger because everyone around them ends up dead And it's not like richard ever actually it's not like it's it's shown that he's tempted by anything ever like No, like why do they need to be end up dead? The universe I don't really know. It's weird. Yeah, I yeah, so that was probably my biggest issue with the book. Um I think I actually think even though it is weird That the whole temple of the winds thing is interesting In what it's trying to do um Also, also, okay. I'm curious to hear what people think about this because obviously I think I think the good kind is Yes, this is true. Um, I think good kind is trying to point out the absurdity of like The legal ways that people talk about virginity like what counts and what doesn't because like the whole premise of this is that like well You count as a version because yes, you had sex but technically it wasn't in our world. So like it's it's also I mean that is now going to to the end of the book. Um, yeah, like that part but since we're talking about that anyway, um I find it interesting. This is another like if we're building a case for like terry good kind is secretly like A woman who's not terry good kind who wrote this like he's actually like it's actually his wife that wrote this He just put his name on it or something because like again the um like studies show and like we studied this in my anthropology classes and like a lot of a lot of Stuff has been published about this. Um, and obviously like this is Broad strokes. This isn't true of every individual But that like when it comes to questions of like infidelity and cheating and that kind of thing Men are a lot more upset by physical acts and women are a lot more upset by emotional acts So like if a woman finds out that her husband was sleeping with someone but it didn't mean anything She would prefer that whereas a guy would prefer her to have feelings for someone but not sleep with him um And so like it's interesting that like he's kind of making the point that like She had she physically was with somebody but didn't have feelings for them Which is more what a woman would be okay with and it's like arguing for that being fine. Yeah, which is interesting That's really interesting Yeah, well, and I think um I also just think that like the the the absurdity of like Like oh well this counts as a virginity. This doesn't count as virginity and like To me it felt like it was kind of a stand-up of how ridiculous it gets on purpose. Um But I don't know To me it didn't read like maybe it was intentional I feel like giving him slightly too much credit and it more just like was lumped in with like All of the contrived ways we're going to like make this thing happen And why it has to happen where he's like what they were together before but like but that didn't count because like It was actually in the spirit world So luckily that's how I wrote that in the previous book because I wasn't yet planning this thing So that was in the spirit world didn't count. Um, so she's still a virgin And we're still going to do this thing which we still have to do And It's it's so like I'm sorry the magic requires why Why does the magic require this how does anybody else get access to the temple the wins did they also Do this Make it make sense There had to be a sacrifice Um, yeah, no, I guess I mean then it's possible. I'm giving you Like the fact that they can't talk to each other while it's happening. You're like, I'm sorry. Why does the magic require that? Why Yeah Yeah, no, I mean that was yeah I Yeah, I did think it was it was kind of an interesting um Like an interesting lead-in to this conversation though with richard coming to realize That he doesn't and shouldn't have control of kaolin and that if they can't Like there's not a good reason for him to be angry at her for making the best of a such a bad situation Which I really appreciate it. I was like, yes, that's why I said like as weird as this is like I know that like you did all that so that you could have a moment where like your point is Just because somebody's making the best of a bad situation like well Well, I mean and which is like it's a fine point to make. I just I promise you you can make that point in less bizarre ways Which I mean also kind of like yeah talk about how like um all terry good kind books have like you know I don't know Checkoffs character trait or checkoffs weird thing that like suddenly we had introduced this idea that like like no We've had two three books before and never was did we make a big deal about the fact that like richard knows It's kaolin that comes in a room and she doesn't know that it's richard that comes in a room And you're like so clearly there's gonna be a time when they're gonna need to know who came in the room And richard will know and kaolin won't Just introduce this so it's like check off spidey sense Well come into play Similarly, did you notice the moment where it was like oh and this herb that be careful with it? Because if you blow it in someone's face, it'll like hurt them so much and I was like, oh I feel like that's less. Um I don't mean they're both the same thing but like having like a new MacGuffin which is the kind of what that is or a new plot convenience weapon That's introduced is different from like these characters have been together for like all of these books and like This wasn't a thing that came up before between them We didn't notice this until the plot needed them to notice that richard knows it's kaolin without seeing her Yeah Okay Because like there's going to be this very specific of a specific circumstance Where you're going to be in complete darkness and not allowed to talk Which you will have to sleep with each other and you're like in what world Be a thing I mean, yeah, it's it's definitely over the top and kind of ridiculous, but yeah, yep I mean like right and then kaolin has her moment of guilt where she's like he was trying to be gentle because it was richard He was trying to let me like no, it's him and I'm just like And then like he switched sores with dreffin because he's like she's gonna need it now or he's gonna need it now to protect I'm like That's what you would choose to do But you know, but he magically just gets a new one Well, I mean, but again, it was just like another way that kaolin would have she specifically notices the sword and is like and that's not richard sword because like I mean the only reason it's not is so that we can have a moment where kaolin doesn't think it's richard. Yep you hope Yes He could have sighed or a lot. Yeah Yes, I also I mean I do This isn't, you know, like, you know hard science or anything But I uh and this comes up a lot, you know, like in shakespeare and things like that And in a lot of like mistaken identity stories We're like if you know a person and you've like touched them And you've been close to them and you've seen their face up close touched their face up close Wouldn't you know you would know I feel like you would know or like how they smell Like I don't know like I just feel like you would you would know Again, it's not like they had never been into me. It was in the spirit world So it doesn't count but like she would know like what his touches like in every way So she like I mean, I get they kept making the point again Um, how much druffin is like richard how physically the same he is But there are also differences and she keeps getting put off by his differences So like honestly like the part that richard if I was richard and I was upset about this The part that I'd be upset about would not be Which I mean it had to be this so that terry goodkine could make his point about how She's making the best of bad situation But the part if I was richard I'd be like I don't care that she was trying to make the best of a bad situation I'm hurt that Like I mean I don't need her to know that it's me when I walk in a room the way that I know it's her but like really like I just I had sex with her and she didn't know that it was me like Are you like It I mean That's what I would be like hurt by not the fact that like she was trying to like make the best of it Yeah Oh, this is so funny I I mean, yeah, she betrayed him in her The amount of like Ways that this is so contrived, but I feel it But you know, he feels like it's really clever like Oh, I know prophecy I mean, I don't mind honestly like I'm also totally okay with having women have periods I mean like yes normalize it like because that's okay Yes, but like the reason it's there is because he prophecy said that to trick us into being like she's going to betray him and blood will be involved I know it's actually a period I mean, it's kind of funny, but I'm also like I'm not like particularly bothered by it because I'm just kind of like What the hell like I'm always for when fantasy novels decide to actually mention periods because they happen I mean, that's why I said like it's not like hard science So like she would have had to recognize him But also but the amount of times like the these books like that's why it feels like a romance novel The amount of times Richard and Kaylin thinks to themselves that like there will literally never be another like living entity In the universe that is for me. It is only them. It is always only them. I want them so bad Um, and it is like everything about you your touch your smell your existence your soul Like we are like cosmically faded mates um So like for her to like not realize that it's Richard is like Gabe, but are you though? Yeah, I mean, I guess it's hard too because I could see how when you're in a situation where you're really scared And there's a lot going on like maybe I mean, yeah Wizards first rule indeed Yep Yep. Yep It is Yeah Look Priscilla, he had a good grovel at the end there I was I was satisfied with the but I mean, it's also like The fact that like she didn't want it didn't want it didn't want it And then like clearly the temple wasn't coming And then as soon as she has it the temple arrived So like knowing how Kaylin is always smarter than you Richard Why wouldn't you assume she figured out? Oh, it's because I didn't orgasm. So I better figure out how to like How to do it happen. Yeah Yep Which like for magic to require you to be able to orgasm for it to like I'm sorry the magic requires I mean I mean, I like I feel like I've read stuff before where like magic tied to that is tied to that Wouldn't those be romance novels? No, like I don't know. I I can't think of anything specific right now, but I feel like I've read other things where there's like sex magic I mean, maybe but I feel like it's also usually like it has less Like pages and pages of legalese to explain why this specific circumstance with these specific like parameters Like it you know, it honestly it feels like something court ordered where it's like the parties have like negotiated for months And like originally they wanted to have it like this But then they they compromised and agreed to this and like originally was going to be blindfolded But no they just agreed to not say anything and be in the dark and like, you know, like it feels like this like what So this is interesting the idea that the requirement is actually betrayal Well, I mean like the place that he goes into is the hall of the betrayed And that's why he's able to enter which I think like, um, I'm not sure how much the book goes into this I don't remember But if it's I know that the sort of truth works this way So I think this is how terry good kind approaches all the magic in the world is that it's um, it's not like magic as a Third party non like omniscient entity has decided that you're betrayed It's that you feel betrayed because like the sort of truth works if you believe That they are guilty not if they actually are the magic the sword doesn't magically know if they're guilty So like he feels betrayed therefore he can go therefore he can know when right Yeah, I mean, so it may be that manipulated thing or at least like maximal him feeling betrayed sort of I swear there's uh There's other ways to achieve this But it was dramatic and you remembered it years later. Oh, yes It achieved the goal Oh, yeah Yeah I don't it is interesting to me that like cara could switch them and the spirits wouldn't care But I guess they didn't care because The whole point was to have Richard feel betrayed So little did cara know she was playing right into their hands But also saving katelyn's life from jack the ripper Which I mean again like all of this like contrived You know switcheroo Orgasm betrayal thing can all still happen without druffin being jag the ripper, right Yep I mean it could work out When I my version where they happily ever after the other two so that it's a consolation if she like Wakes up and realizes that cara switched them and she was the druffin and she was like, okay Well, I like you and you like me and you know We are basically married now because you know, we banged it out. Thanks to the spirits. So Let's forget Richard. Let's you and me. We're both healers. We both have that in common Let's let's let's make a thing of it Instead of Well, maybe you should go write some temple of the winds fanfic absolutely not In no universe is that happening? Get the ending you wanted Well, I mean I kind of Enjoy the fact that terry goodkind clearly had some self-awareness about how Stupidly specific this all was and so the way he was like it was dark and raw and you know how dark and raw be If he wanted that to make it like this. So you're like, I guess that makes sense I guess that like I mean I though I mean like the spirits have so far seemed like a sort of like Just generic mystical entity when you're like, it's dark and raw. You're like, I mean he would he would I guess It's okay. It doesn't all have to make sense. It's fine I mean kaolin thought Well, it's because the way kara said when she was under the influence of the spirits when she was like you have to like She tells her specifically to enjoy it or specifically to like indulge indulge. That was the word Yeah Yeah Yeah I mean, why would anything like it would be in the whole drift and taking over and and being Evil new raw like that is not necessary to the plot because nothing happens. Well, it sort of is because Otherwise, what if Richard just stayed in the temple of the winds forever? Being sad about kaolin betraying him I mean, you wouldn't have to write it like where it's dreffin that makes him You know like just the realization that he's a dumb ass per usual and it's like Oh, I need to get back to kaolin because she does love me and like i'm being stupid My people need me everyone is still in danger from jigang And I've just fucked off because I've decided that I got my panties in a twist and that's worth the world ending over Like oh, I'm being the worst. I should go back and save the world That's an option. I guess I just feel like it wouldn't be a sort of truth book if it didn't have this level of Over the top dust and drama. I mean all of that is still over the top even if dreffin is not evil incarnate It's not like the book is lacking for like spice dreffin doesn't need to be jack the ripper But then who would be jack the ripper because you'd need somebody would have to be jack the ripper I mean, you're clearly introducing new characters in these books that end up being immediately cut from the story because they were evil Nadine and dreffin immediately got cut So he could have introduced yet another like character that's around them for this book and it was him But you would have to figure out like the finale of like how you're because the whole thing is that the jack the Ripper character wants to be with kailyn And has been told that they will get kailyn And that's like tied into the whole process. I mean they already had the red herring character that was meant to draw suspicion away from dreffin So we do it the other way around where dreffin is drawing suspicion away from that dude But then that dude would have to be the one that is going to marry kailyn in the temple of the winds Because that's like how all that you know But I mean like it's written that way because of the situation that we're in like, you know It's it's very contrived So like it would be like it would be a different version of it where like the reason the ripper is going around doing things Isn't because he wants to get with kailyn necessarily You know like that doesn't have to be yeah, but then how does it become? I don't know I I don't mind the way it was done. I guess is really what I'm saying Because they I mean because of the fact that them they were married by the spirits and they like have to be together I mean that's also true. Well again, but terry goodkine wrote it that way Just like he has to be jack the ripper because terry goodkine wrote it that way But he didn't have to write that they have to be together after he did But I also would like to know that like, okay, so they say you have to be faithful to this forever for all time Um, but you already got access to the temple of the winds So like what are you gonna do spirits if we don't we already got into the temple? We don't need you anymore. Well, do you ever not need the spirits? Do you want to test them? I just I mean like the idea that like oh, but like in this universe It must be that they have I mean like terry goodkine wrote it like that. He doesn't have to be like that He could write it differently I mean people hate kaolin People hate kaolin It's like what's with everyone always wanting to brutally murder kaolin. I mean it's because she's the mother confessor Oh You know like she's a symbol of Well, and she's also like more powerful than women any other woman and And I mean people want to murder richard, dude. It's not like they don't that's true Yep, but yeah, I mean Yeah, I think Yeah, I mean, I feel like the I guess Nathan is a bit alpha, but he's older Um, I just feel like there's no one else that's as alpha is richard around and it feels like if there ever is They're merely gonna die because like he can't have anybody who's like nearing the level of richard as possible And like I think I know richard is the main character, but dreffin is non-magical And so like he wouldn't have been a threat to like the true mary sue Like niss of richard like he's still the chosen one absolutely and undeniably um and having dreffin around I think would have would have been a nice addition to the team And in fact dreffin could have been gay That would have been interesting that actually would have been really interesting. I could see that Uh I like warren too amanda Yeah, and this is another plot line that feels like a woman wrote it because warren looks a lot younger than verna because of like The her relieving so it seems like an older woman younger man romance even though like they are around the same age Um, which again It's like a woman wrote it Like nathan and clarissa. Okay. Yeah, I do to write that but warren and verna I yeah And nathan being loophole for richard opi. I like that too It is convenient, but that's it's okay. I mean when it's a profit doing stuff like that I'm like, well you planned it that way like i'm great Right, and I just generally like nathan a lot He's got a fun energy Yeah, and warren is sweet warren kind of reminds me of wilan from Oh, yeah, I can see that Um, but yeah the the plague We had an entire plague. We did And it does it does make me sad that rena dies Yeah And it's like because I mean I was thinking like how likely is it that literally nobody from our main cast got sick with The plague and died and then rena did Somebody had to I guess It is weird reading about it in covid times for sure Richard's glow-up in this Katelyn's like you have to look like dress for the role you now have Yeah Which I have to say I always hated this glow-up because I always thought like that was a ridiculous outfit Like when it was described I was like, oh no put him back in the woods guide stuff. Yeah, but like that's But I also like he's being the war wizard I've always, you know said that in my fancast, you know Mental version of this and an ideal version if they ever did, you know My vision on screen would be chris hemsworth playing richard And the way chris hemsworth looks in snow white and the huntsman is like perfect woods guide richard But then thor is basically how richard is now dressed So like every iteration of chris hemsworth is clearly richard I think he he should be richard. I think that would be perfect actually Yes The the outfit does but this doesn't look a thing like richard like the the dude Yeah, I can't see this this does not look like richard. No I look more like richard Yes chris hemsworth would be perfect And he also chris hemsworth has that like I don't know. I don't know how to explain this But that kind of like lovable huggable even though he's buff energy. Yes, you know, he totally does Yeah, which is like what richard is all the time where he's like this imposing large muscled tall man Also a teddy bear complete teddy bear and chris hemsworth is definitely that way I yeah, I agree. No, I think I think that casting would be Perfect. Let's make it happen. Who do we need to call somebody? That would be great. So that's basically who I picture all the time and none of these covers has chris hemsworth on it So they do not unacceptable Um They need to fix that but yeah, um We uh What was I gonna say the I mean, we did kind of skip over the middle The middle is all jack the ripper and plague until we figure out what the temple needs Yeah, I mean, I don't know that there's like I have a lot to say specifically about it because it is kind of all just like lead up to Yeah Huggable muscles Yeah, kind of Yep well, um actually Warren also is a little bit like Older wiser but kind of got that like tom holland spider-man energy. So for casting avengers if we got thors richard and Warren is tom holland that would be perfect Because you get that I could totally picture him, you know, like grabbing his head and like Yeah Yeah, I mean Like the part of all these books that is Is it is it good world building like probably not but like I feel it's that I think I said before In our podcast or in other discussions or wherever I've said it before and I'll say it again That like these books give me like the purist escapism And like I feel like when people talk about what people get out of harry potter like I mean, I like harry potter I obviously did as most people did um But that the success of those books is largely owed not so much to the stories because the stories are fine It's more that like people liked feeling like they were in hogwarts that they could like Envision themselves wandering the halls and being there and so like there is a lot of like the plot not moving forward at all Where we're just like in like being shown the place where we want to be And so like there's a lot of parts in these books where like I feel that much more so than I really did with harry potter harry potter did that a bit for me But like these books like when they in palace of the prophets in the second book when you like they're Being there feels that way to me where I'm like I feel like I'm transported to this place that I'm like Fantasy living and like when they go to the wizards keep in blood of the fold too and in this one Yes, the random like mcguffin filled hallways and there's like magical barriers and like it feels You know indiana jonesie mixed with like More the rings and I love those parts even though I'm like is this like actually good lore like no But I'm having but I like it. It's fun. Yeah, I agree. Um, and people are mentioning the the slip Backstory which I liked that too. I also thought it was interesting kind of keeping with the theme Yes, it was in keeping with the theme of the book in general and kind of this idea I think too that like sex workers deserve respect and To be humanized which I think is important um so Yeah, so, I mean that's why like a temple of the winds I never I never said like about it All these years I wasn't like that is a terrible atrocious book and should be burned All I said about it repeatedly was like that that book is weird Book is bananas because like again like the points he's trying to make Um about all these things about you know Relationships and and rights and physical autonomy and etc etc etc like those ultimately are all points that I'm on board with I'm just like I don't know Yeah, and I I think I like the points he's making and I don't mind the way he makes it I just kind of go with it. I feel like with with the I mean they are weird like I I completely understand it's weird and I get why people may not be fans but I I do feel like I just I'm kind of like all right. I'm just going to go with the The wild over the top mess of And I think I kind of decides to do I think I message this to you as well and like I think I probably sounded quite Snippy, um, but I did sincerely mean it that like one thing you can't say about blood of the or uh Himalawins it it's not boring Um, and I do sincerely mean that like as bonkers as it is like even the second time through Like I didn't really want to put it down like that's why I considered giving it four stars Because I was like I really wanted to keep reading this like I kept my attention the entire time even though I knew exactly where this was going and was like You know Preparing for myself for that but nevertheless like it's a very compulsory like a compulsively readable book In general to his books. I think are but this one has I mean we said blood of the fold We're like what's the plot there isn't one there are too many plots In temple of the winds so it's it's throwing a lot at you But like it is it is incredibly entertaining. It is czar and bonkers But also I love riverdale, which is also bizarre and bonkers and has like 50 different equally bonkers plot lines Um But yeah, yeah That's it temple of the winds is the riverdale of high fantasy. That's the blurb for the cover Everyone will now read it. Yes Everybody I love it Um any more thoughts about temple or about now looking ahead to soul of the fire? I Think I I don't know like I have some vague memories of things that happen at some point in the series I'm not sure if they happen in the next book or not So I don't know quite what we're in for Do you remember like soul being um or like any of them being like standouts for you? uh like I think Faith of the fall and I liked it's my favorite Very excited for faith of the fall and I remember there being some interesting things in pillars of creation I remember being very bored But I think that's the one where we see jensen, right? I'm pretty sure like pillars of creation is like You know how um in blood of the fold we were like where is kaolin for like 60 percent of this book Yeah, I feel like pillars of creation was like where is richard for like 60 percent of this book because it was like mostly jensen interesting Yeah, maybe I think like what I remember is that at some point doesn't magic start disappearing Um, isn't that a major plot point at some point in the series? Yes Yes, but like pillars of creation I mean that's spoilers for like what it's about but like Anyway Yeah, I mean that is a plot point in the series. Yeah Yeah, so I just don't remember all that much from here on out. So we'll see I remember It's because like uh, you know, we've been flipping back and forth and I feel like Because we happen to do you know you first and then me so I'm getting the even numbered ones and weirdly I feel like both my like Most distinct and also fondest memories are of the even numbered books So like stone of tears probably my favorite temple the winds bizarre But I remembered everything about it faith of the fallen was my favorite Now like doing the rereads like it's so far like it's been my favorite But I remember faith of the fallen being my favorite. That's the sixth book. Um, so Yeah, yeah, I remember soul of the fire being like fine, but being as forgettable as blood of the fold Yeah, which is which is interesting. Um I would say stone of tears at this point is my favorite That's the books we've read as well but um Well, it should be interesting. So we'll be back on my channel next month with Soul of the Fire. I don't know. I've just been like the boring one. I'm sorry I remember I mean it's the way that it so I don't know if I ever mentioned this but like I put off reading faith of the fallen for a long time because I had no interest in it And the way that soul of the fire ends I especially had no interest in it and the way that the look at the cover of faith of the fallen I was like based on I know where we left off. So what what I know still has to be resolved Yeah, and based on what I've seen on the blurb For what's going where this is gonna go and the cover of it. I was like, uh, I mean, I guess if I want to keep reading this series. I have to read that one So I guess I will so I finally did and I was like, this is my favorite one But I mean what I was gonna say was that soul of the fire No spoilers ends in a very spicy intense way, which is like why Based on that kind of being left hanging and I was like, I know we're gonna have to deal with this In faith of the fallen. I was like, I don't want to deal with this Yeah, I just don't remember much I like I feel like from this point out. I remember very little like I remember a few Plot points, but it's yeah, it's not much. So let's see I'm muted. Yeah. Um, I think it's shorter too. So the fire. Yeah, I think so So, yeah We'll see how that's that temple of the winds Did it there's been no adventure We we did. Yeah And we'll be back at the end of Of Nikki's a big part of faith of the fallen I like Nikki. I think she's interesting cool All right, we'll be back. We will eat may Well indeed and I am I'm looking forward to it despite how meh. I just sounded But thanks everybody and we'll hopefully see you next time. All right Bye