 hit the number two. This is you. So you're, you're also, and then I just put it into, um, welcome to the Durham planning commission. The members of the Durham planning commission have been appointed by the city council and county board of commissioners as an advisory board to elected officials. You should know that the elected officials have the final say on any issues before us tonight. If you wish to speak on the agenda item, please go to the table to my left and sign up to speak. For those wishing to speak in favor of an item, for those wishing to speak, please state your name and your address clearly when you come to the podium. Please speak into the microphone. Each side, those wishing to speak in favor of an item, those wishing to speak in opposition to an item will have 10 minutes to present each side. The time will be divided amongst all persons wishing to speak. If you're here opposing a rezoning tonight, you should be aware of what's called a protest petition. A protest petition can be very helpful to those, to those residents who live in a rezoning area. Please consult the planning department staff for any details on a protest petition and they will be happy to help you. You should also keep in constant touch with the planning department as to when your case will go before the elected officials for a final vote. Finally, all motions are stated in the affirmative, so if a motion fails or ties, the recommendation is for a denial. Thank you. Here we have roll call. Commissioner Bealon, Commissioner Boyd, Commissioner Davis, Commissioner Guilds, Commissioner Harris, Chair Jones, Commissioner Huff, Commissioner Padgett, Commissioner Smusky, Commissioner Whitley, Commissioner Winders, Commissioner Miller. Do we have any adjustments to the agenda? Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the board, Pat Young with the planning department. No adjustments tonight, but I can certify for the record that all items before you, all public hearing items have been advertised in accordance with law and we have affidavits to that effect on file with the planning department. All right, thank you. Can we have approval of the minutes? Mr. Chair, I move approval of the minutes. We'll get a second. It's been moved and properly seconded by Commissioner Boyd. All those in favor, let it be. No am I raising a right hand? Any opposition? The minutes has passed, 10 to 0. All right, thank you. Move down to item 5, Resolution Honoring Commissioner Barbara Reachwood. She isn't here this evening, so I'll read it into the public record. Resolution and honor, resolution and appreciation of Ms. Barbara Beechwood, whereas Ms. Barbara Beechwood was a member of the Durham Planning Commission from May 2009 through December 2013 and whereas the Durham Planning Commission and the citizens of the city and county of Durham have benefited from the dedicated effort she has displayed while serving as a member of the Durham Planning Commission and whereas the commission desires to express its appreciation for a job well done and now therefore let it be resolved by the Durham Planning Commission, Section 1. This commission does hereby express its sincere appreciation for the service rendered by Ms. Beechwood to the citizens of this community. Section 2, that the clerk of the commission is hereby directed to spread this resolution in its entirety upon the minutes of the commission and this resolution is hereby presented to Ms. Beechwood as a token of the highest esteem held for her adopted this 11th day of March 2014. Antonio Jones, Chairman. So we'll be sure she gets this. Now we move down to item 6A, open the public hearing for UDI Farm A140001 and Z140001. Good evening. My name is Carla Rosenberg and with the Planning Department and I am here to present the first Planning Amendment case of the year. UDI Farm, the applicant UDI Community Development Corporation is proposing to amend approximately 2.6 acres of the future land use map from office to low density residential. This change would allow them to operate an aquaponics farm on the site. The total site encompasses 5.9 acres and the rest of it will maintain its current designation of recreation open space. So this is a map showing the broader context in the future land use context. The east Cornwallis Road runs diagonally through the center of the screen and you can see that it borders the site to the northeast. It's just north of an industrial complex which is shown in purple and surrounding the site is mainly residential land and that is shown in oranges and yellows and then it also encompasses a stream bed which is shown in green which connects to the northeast creek and eventually to Jordan Lake to the south. So there have been few changes to the land use map, the future land use map for this parcel over time. The earlier small area plan, the 1986 south Durham plan, recommended that the site be designated office as did the 2005 comprehensive plan. In the justification statement the applicant suggests that the current land use designation of office ought to be amended because it is not supportable for this parcel based on site constraints regarding the floodplain intrusion. Essentially the area that's designated office which escapes the floodplain is not sufficiently large to allow for office development. The applicant further states that the existing low and low medium density residential designations surrounding the site are consistent with the proposed land use of low density residential. Staff has reviewed the request against the following four criteria found in the unified development ordinance which include consistency with adopted plans and policies, compatibility with existing and or future land use patterns, lack of substantial adverse impact and adequacy of shape and size of the site. Starting with consistency with adopted plans and policies we found that the proposed amendment is consistent with land use policies in the comprehensive plan including policies regarding density and continuous development. The first suburban tier density evaluation encourages lower density development outside of the downtown and compact neighborhood tiers and suburban transit support areas. The second contiguous development supports orderly development patterns that take advantage of existing urban services and avoid insofar as possible patterns of leapfrogging or non-contiguous scattered development. And the third watershed critical areas in land use encourages lower intensity land uses in watershed critical areas, the most sensitive land near water supply reservoirs. So the majority of the area surrounding the parcel is already designated low or low medium density residential and while the current designation of office does allow for a transition from industrial land uses immediately south to low density residential to the north, staff believes that the portion already designated as recreation open space would sufficiently buffer the parcel from the industrial land to the south for future residential development. Staff determined that there would be no substantial adverse impact with regard to infrastructure, environmental protection or future demand for land uses. And finally staff determined that the site is of adequate shape and size to accommodate the proposed residential land use. And therefore staff believes that the request meets all of the criteria for planned amendments and is thus recommending approval. I'll take any questions afterwards and I'd like to present also Amy Wolfe to present the zoning report. Good evening Amy Wolfe with the Planning Department. The zoning case Z1400001 for UDI Farm accompanies the plan amendment. The applicant again is UDI Development Corporation. It's in the city's jurisdiction. The present designation is office institutional and the request is for residential suburban 20. The site acreage differs from the plan amendment because only a portion of the site was being requested for future land use map change. The entire parcel is 5.897 acres and proposed uses for agriculture agriculture development on the site. The site is in the suburban tier at 4601 industry lane which also has frontage on east Cornwallis. Ms. Rosenberg gave it an excellent context of where the site is. Again it's in a non non residential node with a residential to the north and east of the site. The site is forested. There's floodway floodway fringe. There is a sewer easement running through the site and intermittent stream and there is approximately one acre that's out of these special flood areas. The request meets the criteria for or the standards for the residential suburban 20 district which is the lot lot area and for for your information maximum height would be 35 feet. Agriculture is a permitted use as a proposed use for the site is permitted use in the RS 20 district and it's also allowed in the RR district or residential rural district as a described use in those categories. Again the site is not consistent with the future land use map. Refer to the plan amendment report for details on that change and it is consistent. This should say no. It is consistent with the other applicable policies of the comprehensive plan and staff determines that should the plan amendment be approved this request is consistent with comprehensive plan and the applicable policies and ordinances and I'll be available for any questions. All right thank you. We have two people sign up to speak. Ed Stewart, Patrick Biker, both are speaking for. Thank you. Members of the commission my name is Ed Stewart. I serve as president CEO of UD, our community development corporation. I've served in that position for about 44 years and at which time the company was first started. Just one minute of some things that we might have that we have done over these 40 some years. We noted mostly for our 91 acre industrial park which was designated on the map as the site for this particular project. Other things include an elderly center for St. Joseph Church, a food line supermarket on Fayette Street, about 54 houses in northeast central Durham, 25,000 square foot office space on North Mangum Street and right now we should within the next two weeks we should finish a three-level building at the corner of North Mangum and Corporation Street that we hope will serve to revitalize that area. At any time I get a chance to say something about UDI, take advantage of it. I finish and I thank you very much. We have asked Mr. Patrick Biker, Attorney Patrick Biker to be our major speaker. Thank you. Thank you and I promise I won't take nine and a half minutes of your time this evening. Good evening Chairman Jones, members of the Planning Commission. My name is Patrick Biker. I live at 2614 Stewart Drive. I'm an attorney with Morningstar Law Group in Durham. I'm here tonight representing UDI Community Development Corporation. We are requesting your recommendation for approval of this plan amendment and zoning map change for approximately six acres along the south side of East Cornwallis Road at the intersection with Industry Lane. Also with me tonight on our team is a landscape architect with great experience in Durham, Mr. Kevin Hammack. We are requesting this plan amendment and rezoning to RS20 so that UDI can develop these six acres as an agricultural use that will create an exciting urban farming opportunity for Durham. UDI has secured a grant from the Federal Economic Development Administration to develop these six acres as a facility that can grow fish, fruit and vegetables. This is a project that will exemplify community supported agriculture and further enhance Durham's reputation as a leader in the farm to table movement. As I'm sure many of you on the Planning Commission will recall that last year Southern Living Magazine named Durham the tastiest town in the south. That was a fantastic award for our town but Durham should not rest on its laurels. Accordingly this plan amendment and rezoning will allow Durham to move forward with sustainable new jobs and efficient urban agricultural practices that will enhance Durham's leadership position as the food mecca of the south. We thought the Planning Department staff reports on the plan amendment and the zoning map changed in an excellent job of stating the issues for these agenda items. We very much appreciate the work of the Planning Department on our proposal. And so in closing we respectfully ask for your recommendation of approval. Kevin and I will be happy to try and answer any questions you may have tonight. Thank you so much for your time. All right thank you. Do we have anyone else wishing to speak? If not we'll close the public hearing and bring it back before the commissioners. Do we have anyone? Mr. Harris. Thank you Mr. Chair. First of all I want to draw your attention to page two of nine of the zoning map change that deals with agriculture development and agriculture use. And I'm looking at the, excuse me, the applicant does not have a site plan nor does it require one at this point but I'm looking at the various uses. The RS20 and the RR are the only two districts that can have agriculture use and RR is in the county and RS is in the city. But these various uses that they can do under the agriculture use and then if I can draw your attention to the page five of six of the amendment at the very bottom of the page site concludes the proposed plan amendment would create a substantial adverse impact for the adjacent areas and it very well could depend upon what agriculture use they put. So it really give me concern that I mean we don't have a site plan or we have a subverbal and it's not even a commitment as to exactly what they're going to use it. If I may address that Commissioner Harris, Erin came with the planning department. We sent out a revised version on Friday via email that corrected that error so that should have said that there would not be any substantial adverse impacts in the city or county. That was an error in our part. I understand that but even with that statement the various uses that they can use under the agricultural development could cause adverse conditions for the surrounding area and that's just my concern thank you. We'll go down to Commissioner Huff then we'll come back. I actually had a question about that staff conclusion that on page five of six and and you and you cleared it up however you know Friday a lot of us didn't have any power didn't have anything until like yesterday. Okay thank you Commissioner. It's not a key then page of the end witness. Commissioner Harris what is it the the livestock and other uses that you're concerned about causing adverse impacts what what is it specifically that you have concerns about? The various uses that you can have in the agricultural district period I mean they could have hogs out there. I guess my my my question is here is what is it in there that wouldn't would warrant any concern other than from what I understand UDI and the group with UDI has had a very positive impact in the community so I don't I don't see anything going in any direction other than what it's intended from what I'm seeing here and based on what's been presented by planning I feel confident that they've done what they're supposed to do and and that's kind of where it's set so I'll be quick to support the project. Mr. Whitley you know I'm just thinking about all the times I've cleaned my fish tank and I could have been using the water to to grow fruits and vegetables. You know this is a wonderful idea and it's happening right here in Durham it's not happening someplace else it's happening here and and I can't see how having a fish tank and selling fish and growing vegetables and and plants could have an adverse impact on property around it. I mean we have gardens throughout our community and if you go into some of the houses you're going to find a fish tank. This is something that I think Durham could be proud of and UPI really have have made his mark on Durham and and I think this this idea is just it's a step above other ideas that I've heard come forward. I just love this project and I will ask my fellow commissioners to join me in voting for it. Anyone else? Okay who do Davis? No you want to make okay hold that thought okay hold that thought for one minute. So Dr. Winder's my turn. I just I want to see if I understand things right and it's being changed to R20 which is not an agricultural district although it does allow some agricultural uses probably it wouldn't allow hogs would it and the the agriculture will only be able to happen on the residential part or will there be will they be able to put fruit trees and things in the open space part. So Commissioner Winder's with the planning department right as I think Commissioner Harris or someone on the board alluded to in the city the only allowable districts for agriculture are R and RS 20 and in city it's usually RS 20. There could certainly be trees grown on any in any district even for not for commercial purposes but for for growing fruit or other things. The agricultural activities would be only on the RS 20 portion and I would just mention again just to reiterate Mr. Cain's point the information in the original cyberport was strictly a typographical error we really believe that the existing range of uses in the OI district are potentially more impactful than any of the RS 20 uses. All right thank you anyone else. Mr. Davis wait Ms. Gibbs you have a question. Oh yes sir. No sir you are recognized. In response to well several of the comments so far Commissioner Whitley for for one this is not something that is going on that's unique to Durham it is unique to Durham and I know Mr. Hammack has sort of been our pioneer for this kind of thing in the Durham area but this is going on around the world in my research I I've seen it in Pittsburgh I've seen it in Australia and then of all places New York City and and it's not something that's just relegated as a suburban type of farming in New York City they have enough rooftop hydroponic aquaponic whichever one it may be farms that could possibly feed the inhabitants of that whole entire building that's something that we need to and I'm mentioning this because I think it's something that we that needs to be part of the conversation our we've been focusing on affordable housing and and our higher density development around the county and which I'd like to see more and more clusters of mixed use development and this is something that will fit right in if you have more people you've got to feed them and this is something that people can do on their own or it can be done on a larger scale but it's uh I've been really impressed with it and I have not been able to find any information uh that there's any environmental issues there's no smelling of the fish in fact you can grow all kinds of vegetables and they're doing that in New York City and then Australia and if I'm misquoting anything Kevin I you could address that it's a it's something that I think even the planning department at some point we may have to look at it's being used there are people that would love to use it in downtown you just ask some of them but at any rate I just wanted to mention those things as something that we that should become part of our thinking how do we feed people because it another item that I saw is at some point in the future it would take a continent-sized farmland to feed the people of the world what continent I don't remember my wife would probably say Charles get your facts together before you open your mouth but these things uh this is a good it's not the only alternative but it is one that does work thanks thank you Commissioner Davis I move approvals on in case z one four zero zero zero zero one that's correct I'm sorry I move approval plan amendment one four zero zero zero zero one now it's been moving probably second all those in favor let me know am I raising your right hand case z one four zero zero zero zero one has passed 13 to zero uh go that was the uh amendment the amendment or any opposition okay one opposed eight eight one four zero zero zero zero one has passed 12 to one I move approvals on in case z one four zero zero zero one it's been moved and probably second all those in favor let it be known by raising your right hand any opposition case number one z one four zero zero zero one has passed 12 for one against thanks for your time tonight all right thank you we'll move down to case case z one three zero zero zero one eight circle k and before we get started as a just more of a public disclosure I'm employed with Durham public schools in my homeschoolers hillside high school which is adjacent to I guess cross street from this particular property I do not stand again anything financial from this however I would like to disclose that as a matter of public record all right thank you good evening Amy will for the planning department this is zoning case z one three zero zero zero one eight circle k the applicant is circle k stores incorporated the site is within the city's jurisdiction just north of the previous site we just heard their request is from the present designation of commercial neighborhood to commercial general with a development plan the site is two point zero two acres the site is actually encumbers two parcels one is a smaller parcel that fronts on cook road and the other is a is a roughly two acre portion of a five acre parcel that at 3700 Fayetteville street proposed uses for a convenience store which is not committed excuse me convenience store with fuel sales which is not committed but a maximum of floor area of 6000 square feet is committed again here's the site it's in the suburban tier at 3700 Fayetteville street opposite hillside high school there is a small parcel along cook road that is also included but this this parcel fronting on Fayetteville street is a portion of a single parcel the the site is at an intersection cook road in Fayetteville street there is a residential neighborhood abutting this site you have various zoning designations ranging from residential urban five residential suburban eight and residential suburban 20 as you head from north to south the request does meet the standards of the commercial general district there is a development plan associated with this site that does demonstrate conformance with these standards the existing conditions of the site again to your left is north excuse me to your right is north Fayetteville street is along the south and hillside high is to the bottom of the page for orientation purposes there's an existing structure on the side that is currently vacant there's a car wash along the corner as well as it was once developed as a convenience store with fuel sales and a laundry mat Fayetteville street at this location is four lanes with a turn lane the proposed conditions meet the standards of the development plan it shows site access points it has tree coverage areas in the form of replacement and coverage and there's a number of commitments that I'll go over as well the maximum floor area for the structure is 6,000 square feet again three site access points maximum impervious surface is 85 percent and the tree preservation is 15.9 percent or that's actually tree coverage 15.9 percent there are graphic commitments which includes the location of access points and tree coverage areas the building envelope that's shown and a project boundary buffer on the north of the site that's at 0.8 opacity there's a number of text commitments as well some of these are in answer to the traffic impact analysis which was performed for the site they are committing to transit facilities dedication of right away construction of turn lanes as well as widening of the road for bike lanes along the full frontage of the site of cook road and Fayetteville street there's design commitments as well that identified commitments for the roof building materials and some visual interest along the front and rear of the building the request is consistent with the future land use map which designates this site as commercial and the site does meet all the policies that relate to this application in a comprehensive plan and staff determines this request is consistent with the comprehensive plan and the applicable policies and ordinances and I'm available for any questions thank you we have three people three people signed up to speak two four one against Evan Walton and Adam Sophia can read your writing sorry Seraphine Seraphine close okay good enough have those two come up you have 10 minutes between the two thank you much for having us today my name is Evan Walton I'm the director of real estate and development with circle K and we're based out of Charlotte just wanted to take the time to thank you you know thank the planning department and Amy for all of their help they've explained everything you know to the to the fullest extent you know we entered into an agreement about a little over a year ago to purchase this property our goal is to redevelop as we know there it's as of now it's a bit of an eyesore the way that it stands today our goal is to come in you know spend a lot of money on and revitalizing that corner we've we're okay with the recommendations for the road improvements as well as you know adding the transportation things that that Amy had said just really wanted to field any questions today and be here for an advocate of circle K we'd love to enter this market with a new store and really put a good product out for you know that not only the neighborhood but commuter is coming in and out and also hillside circle K is you know we're an advocate of the schools we sponsor a lot of schools and markets where we build new stores sports programs youth programs and those type of things and this wouldn't be any different so you know at these stores one thing I'd like to note is that everything everybody that works in our stores are company employees they pass a drug screen they pass a background test they work for circle K we hold a very high standard and we have executives visiting sites in this market and this would be one of them each and every week so we will definitely from a security standpoint we will put all of our efforts into keeping that a secure location and really just putting the best offer that we can there so you know again here to answer any questions but really appreciate you guys allowing us to to step in here and see if we can put a new circle K at this location thank you hello Adam sir from a circle K thank you again to the staff and to the commission Evan I think put the position nicely but one thing I do want to comment on is you know we're not only seeking approval from the commission we're also seeking approval from the community you're going to be our customer and the way we see it is we wouldn't be successful if we didn't have a customer base so that's the whole reason why we were doing this project is to be a part of the community we're not only trying to greatly improve the intersection greatly improve the area but we're trying to invest in the community we're not trying to do a big huge you know sheets and monstrosity of a building that's gonna shoot lights out in every direction and you know really disturb the neighborhood we're not trying to do that again we're trying to do you know a community convenience store um and you know we feel that that that it'll work for the community as well so again any opposition you know we would love to field any questions uh that you guys have all right thank you we have one person signed up against Sandra Austin good evening commissioners I'm Sandra Austin I reside at thirteen eighteen truly drive um the south part of my property is adjacent to the property in question the reason I'm here is that I'm a retired educator from Durham public schools and my thing has been students and children all of my life and I'm concerned about I want to ensure that if this property is rezoned that the hillside students will be thought of and there will be no negativeism going on no hillside students sort of like hanging out at that property um at the beginning of these negotiations I was in a conversation with mr picket and the representatives from circle k also at that time some administrators were there from hillside high school and some of my property owners form cook the cook road area um I just put down that I was against it because I want to ensure that everything circle k has promised will be adhered to and especially I'm concerned about the the runoff the water runoff from that property to the property on truly drive and especially to the property owners in the cul-de-sac on four seasons so um that's why I put down against but I'm a I'm for improvement but I just want to make sure if um this zoning is changed that circle k will do everything they have said they were going to do and I would like to have the concentration on the drainage for that to be controlled because our property is going down hill uh the drainage the hill the way it's like landscape is downhill so I want to ensure that so if they would that would be ensured and if there's not that we can have a redress a court um in order for that to make sure that these things are here too thank you so very much thank you ma'am are you do you want to speak okay if you can come up to the microphone and state your name yes my tardiness my husband was a little bit late he's actually on the way here he was trying to find a place to park we did not want to end up with a ticket we live at 109 cook road which is um adjacent to the property however we understand that um because the way um it's going to be positioned now we're gonna be kind of almost opposite of it and um for some reason our property seems to have a line going down it we live at 109 cook road and if you look at the little red section on the uh the little map they sent us uh we're right opposite of it and there is a an empty property right next door that was not touched um but our property for some reason has been rezoned and we were just wondering why why has our property been rezoned we are not part of um the property that the gas station is going to be on who should i ask that question please i'm just gonna get clarification on the question this is scott wyvern for the plant department i believe your property is not uh included in this rezoning i believe there's a zoning line that goes through the your property yes it's just a historical anomaly that you're in two different zoning districts but they're both but they both allow for a single family house okay and what are the um what the what are the implications of that please does it mean that our taxes are going to be higher than uh like the people next door to us or i'm sorry i don't understand this that's why i'm here i want to know can't say for sure about how it would affect your taxes but typically the zoning wouldn't something like this would not affect your taxes okay so is that um a new proposal though that um our property is in two zones or are you saying it's always been that way it's probably been that way for decades okay and um is there a date for when the rezoning was done please oh is this a proposal to um that is my husband christopher patron um i was just told that we are actually our property is in two different zones okay so um i don't know what the implications of that are so the only property that's being rezoned is the the property on the map that's shown in the in the red lines yeah so ours is not really yours is not changing yeah whatever that the line going through the middle of it is something that's been there for a very long time okay uh is there a way to find out when that was done yeah we if you uh if you stick around and we can give you some contact information we will thank you for one other thing sir um what about the store across the street is that going to be anything like the car wash and is that going to be affected in all that stuff rebuilding it yeah so what we're discussing now is the proposed circle k uh yeah the circle k that's right correct so the question that you have between the property line and that uh mr whiteman can answer those questions for you um but okay all right thank you very much okay it's no problem okay uh mr davis what do we have anyone else wishing to speak if not we'll close the public hearing and bring it back before the commissioners we have mr davis sign to speak first then mr fadge then mr harris thank you uh my first question is for staff and the designation intent this may be for transportation as well uh it states that businesses in this district should be cited convenient to automotive traffic which is true and development in the cg district should provide safe pedestrian access to adjacent residential areas my concern is looking at the development plan um here you have of course a tremendous large high school with the influx of not only pedestrians but students who i can guarantee you will be trying to cross the street during lunchtime um according to what i see on the development plan there is no designated crosswalks on either side of cook world or the busy fair blue street i know we cannot ask the applicant for committed elements but i think that should be something if we state that we need to have intent on safety for pedestrians that needs to be one of the committed elements my second question is the rezoning is done because they want more than eight fuel stations so my question is is a fuel station is it two on each side because that means a 16 cars or is it one pump per side or so is it four and then eight uh because if they want to do more than 16 that's pretty large to me and i don't think it's necessary to have that much right there and the for the fuel pumps the it's it's a fueling station so it i think one eight fueling stations so one pump is two stations so eight stations it was all full it'd be 16 cars correct yeah based on the traffic impact analysis the applicant would be limited to what we call 16 fueling positions which means 16 cars could fuel simultaneously um typically i think they do that with eight double sided pumps but the applicant could perhaps explain that so that better but the the current cn limits to eight fueling stations so that limits it to eight vehicles fueling simultaneously okay all right and the other question about the crosswalks yes uh yes they are the applicant is required to make a number roadway improvements including sidewalk along the site frontage on both Fayetteville and Cook Road once those are done in the handicap ramps and they'll be doing some resurfacing art apartment and do2 would would likely look at that and the installation of crosswalk would likely be part of the project okay so obviously that's not what we're seeing today but i just want to go on record to say that i think this project if it's going to be approved these to take into consideration the number of kids that will be crossing the street and the lack of crosswalks shown on the committed plan today next me uh commisioner pageant then Harris first of all i want to commend Ms. Austin for her years of service with the public schools she may not remember me but she actually taught me in one of those classes thank you you i'll tell you what you were very firm and very fair the next question or statement i'm gonna have from a law enforcement approach you know i law enforcement for over 30 years now and one of the things as a commander for the school program within the sheriff's office we saw a lot of activity from hillside to the corner stores over there and there was always a contention of a lot of problem because of the influx as i felt commisioner alluded to and that's always a concern and it's something that is unfortunate that it does drop with with circle k so my statement to you is i'm going to support the project but i hope that that you look at a way to work with the school system and communicate with the school system because it is a big a big piece of the pie for that corner and and a lot of activity does hit that corner so i'd hope that like you said that you do work with the school system to to assess that and then as far as the crosswalks i think that's a great idea i think that'd be a no-brainer for you guys anyway whether it was in in the proposal or not but again safety of the kids safety of the employees the other question that i have is you you spoke about employees how many are going to be full-time and how many of them are going to be part-time based on the the the system which circle k uses for a store of that nature of size for the per capita of that area what do we look like how many full-time employees because i know a lot of time stores will come in they'll put you extra amount of part-timers in but you really don't get a lot of benefit for a full-time employment putting people back to work full time that's a great question um a lot of our new story you know depending on the size of the store that determines the man hours on a new store that in what we propose at this location there will be a store manager there will be two assistant managers those are all full-time employees there will also be a market manager who oversees eight locations we have a few other ones down the road from there and so they'll visit stores like i said you know numerous times per week there's normally typically i want to say it's between 240 to 300 man hours per week per store and at the new ones they're usually about 280 to 350 so with with that being said i would assume you know without being able to commit because that's not my side of the business i believe that at at any given moment there will always be a full-time employee in our locations we hire first shift second shift and third shift and you typically especially during peak hours which is a good part of the day this will be this will be a very busy store as you guys stated definitely we will have two to three employees in the store at all times if not three to four with one person being in the back room from a security standpoint in the crosswalks absolutely we we would welcome that we believe that that would be okay and and we think that that would be best and to address your concern with with hillside absolutely we will work with them and to make sure that the safety at that store is is the number one concern so that's something that we will do and we can we can rest assured that thank you thank you that's all i have thank you mr chair i have two well let me let me come in first at the neighborhood meeting the community brought up three concerns one had to do with the safety of kids going across the street as a five lane highway where they have to cross because they have a turning lane in each direction of favela street uh they brought up the fact of laudering at the store and also with the storm water runoff and in landscaping but i want to ask two of the questions one of them go to mr judd and the other one would go to the applicant one question is what can the transportation to heli oh what can the transportation do with reference to having a a signal to indicate when kids can cross the street because right now i go through the every day it's no system they just go across whenever they feel like they can make it and then my second one with the applicant as far as laudering you have heard the community concern about laudering in the store what plans have you put in the place to prevent kids from from that being a hangout uh so you should have something already in in play for that thank you uh yeah bill judge of transportation um as i indicated before with the required roadway improvements particularly on cook road widening the applicant will have to make a number of signal changes to the signal heads for the additional lanes and um restriped the existing crosswalks and high end is there um so as part of that we would typically look at upgrading the signal and look at um providing pedestrian signals if if um yeah if they're not already there i'm not sure it sounds like they're not i'm not familiar um with that specific location whether or not there's pedestrian signals i know that there's crosswalks but push buttons unfortunately um abeyance of those pedestrian signals is not always the best particularly around high schools that it does require waiting on the the signal phase to change and oftentimes pedestrians choose not the weight but but we would include that as part of any any improvement project and also just to add one thing on that is that um you know we have gotten some bids 125 thousand dollars to upgrade the intersection that's what we've committed to um so that is something that we will do a lot of that comes with it also um we i don't know if it's been mentioned but we have committed to adding a um bus shelter on in front of our site um which there currently is not one there today so we have committed that we would we would add that on the property i believe it would sit in the right of way so it would not essentially be on our property but we would we would add that um as well to address the concerns of the loitering um that is definitely something that our company holds to a high standard in in our company operated stores there are some dealer locations that we don't have a direct company operated effect on across the country this would not be one of those locations matter of fact we have none in north carolina at all from a loitering standpoint we usually use the rule during our training with our store managers and our assistant managers in our in our csr's there's a two minute rule and that's just allowed customers some people take longer than others some people like to go outside um and scratch their lottery tickets um enjoy um a non-alcoholic beverage outside and we we don't want to distract from that but every scenario is different if we have a school across the street the last thing that we are going to allow to have happened is loitering inside and out on our property it's a tough job for our employee to monitor that but that's where we it's our job to employ the right person who can be um who can hold that store to that standard but i can assure you um that we definitely take that to the highest and most of most uh standard at circle cat thank you have commissioner miller board and witley thank you mr chairman i have a question for the applicant um if you come forward the current site has two accesses off fable street uh and none on cook road you propose one on fable street and one on cook road how important is that cook road access to the operation of your plan it is important um for a lot more numerous reasons than just the operations piece also um turn radiuses and ingress and egress for fueling trucks and distribution trucks um anytime you can have two access points it's going to allow for better flow um especially on a busier location like this one with the traffic demand that's there um having that ingress and egress um will only allow for better flow on our site and off of our site um with people turning left and right out of each location so cook road is very important the other thing too is um as it was mentioned that there's a larger piece of property that this two acres is a part of there i'm assuming there's going to be future development there and anytime you add more development to the site having more ingress and egress on two on two arteries is definitely important um from a site selection a real estate development standpoint if that answers your question it does thank you mr chairman i have another question for the applicant um you mentioned uh earlier in response to a question from another commission member uh alcoholic beverages um because of the proximity of the school is there any limitation that would be uh imposed on this site for beer and wine sales at the convenience store well you know from a you know from from looking at you know i can tell you one thing that our our employees not only get fines from um governments if they you know the government regulations when they go about not carding we have mystery shops happen all the time um our our rule in house is that you you must ID somebody up until the age of 45 you know that's that's kind of do you look 45 or not so really what we're saying is is that everybody that will come in that store will be id if they're not there's a lot of mystery shops and people who actually lose their positions if if um are caught without uh giving an id and with our operations demand um we are visiting these stores and like i said there's a lot of mystery shops you know we there's people that we let go numerous times each and every month um for for not carding so we will do our very best to not allow alcohol sales especially to minors anybody that is only prohibited to do it um while you're standing there uh would you you you intend to demolish the existing structures and build a new one yes sir six thousand square feet area our building would be no greater than four thousand square feet and uh the current building i believe is about uh some is less than 25 feet tall how tall would your building our building roughly is between 16 and a half and 17 feet high and i'm assuming there would be some sort of canopy over your uh gas pumps yes sir how tall would that be um i believe it's under 21 feet high but it would allow tall tall trucks to go underneath yes sir thank you thank you mr chairman commission of board whitley winers i find myself wondering given that there is a building that crosses the property line um what happens to the half of the building that's located in the other property are we just going to leave that standing there our proposal to the property owner is to demo both the car wash building and the current building in place i do understand that is on the other side of the property that's an agreement that we've worked out with him um or them and so our our position would be to demolish all existing structures that you see today and also i will note that um we would be responsible for the cleanup of any environmental issues that are currently there today as well um this is something that circle k does we deal with environmental issues both on our sites and sites that we buy and sell um so you know rest assured we we do know what we're doing when it comes to environmental issues there okay that's both demolishing and hauling away the debris yes ma'am yes ma'am it was mentioned it was mentioned about runoff a problem with runoff from that property have anybody have that conversation taken place or what's the plan of correction uh mr whetley pat young again with the planning department um the this site was developed originally prior to the time when the city or county had um stormwater management regulations so currently there's not any stormwater controls on the on the site if the site is redeveloped as been proposed by the applicant they would have to meet our current stormwater management ordinances which both controls the quality of stormwater runoff in terms of managing phosphorus phosphorus and nitrogen and and quantity so that the peak volumes were equivalent to what they are currently um at a at the base year event um not an expert on the subject matter but our ordinances are very stringent and it would be a significant improvement over the current conditions because there's not currently any treatment on the site thank you my issues have all been brought up i'll just follow up a little bit uh so we're going to demolish the uh the whole building uh i so that that means we lose the laundromat i suppose that is still functioning just uh what would like that confirmed but and also is it a committed element that the building will be demolished and cleaned up no ma'am there's no committed element to that effect at present that seems unwise to to have a zoning a line going right through a building that question i didn't hear it quite a professional opinion it's okay to have a line going a zoning line going through a building it uh and it it happens it's it's all over Durham actually we just heard from a couple who does have a split zone property i don't know where their structure is on that property it's not unusual is it ideal no but there are i don't know demolition requirements but i'm sure that they from a health and safety point of view you can't have a half demolished building on your property i can say on a somewhat related note is the owner of the property who owns the portion um it's one parcel um and the zoning is only a portion of the parcel the owner signed an owner's acknowledgement form which is a requirement of the development plan so they're aware that the proposed zoning line is through the middle of their property somewhat related anyone else no just oh sorry i'll let you go then i'll go which is really quick okay so since we have many follow-ups um and ask your question first then i'll go then we'll come back around all right sorry um since it's been pointed out that this half of building is a laundromat and you were committing well promising as i said not committing to clean up that building does that include any environmental concerns due to its use as a laundromat because a lot of laundromats do continue to have long-term issues um yes that is also part of the the agreement that we have with the seller um and rest assure you we don't demo buildings that all on a property line that that will be taken out um you know if it's a commitment that we need to make today i can do that um we are planning to knock the whole building down there are environmental issues with laundromats we are saying that that is part of it's part of the structure today it's not a split structure so they're together that is part of the convenience store that we will be demoing and we will not be leaving any um there will be nothing there again the goal is to by the time we would start construction the the seller is going to enter in agreements to develop the rest of the property so hopefully in conjunction we'll be able to do ours with other groups as well um but we're obviously committing to what the circle k will do and which is um take take demo the entire building thank you okay you gotta follow up if i might mr chair um pat young again with the planning department we really don't have a mechanism to enforce a commitment regarding demolition of buildings if this gets passed like this and the applicant for whatever reason decides to back out of the site we don't we don't have a mechanism that we can't legally require bond or anything for demolition um it's my professional opinion that there's no way they can operate a circle k on the site without demolition of it that's just my professional opinion it sounds like there was some desire for a commitment but i i don't think we are in a position right now while we can accept that because we would have a very great difficulty enforcing it legally thank you so my questions are for the applicant um so being that i see this every day five days a week 40 plus hours a week what i would suggest and recommend was number one work diligently with the administrators and the school resource officers um that's going to significantly reduce your loitering or other activities um at that store so develop definitely a personal relationship with whatever sr officer is stationed at hillside um second thing what are the hours of operation 24 hours that would be a 25 hour location 24 hour location okay game day parking okay i'm not sure you guys address this um not sure if you're familiar with hillside high school athletics some of those games they utilize that parking lot for games and that can get really crazy really really quickly so have you guys thought about that old what is your way to address that game time parking um you know unless unless otherwise we would not allow parking on that location and mainly reason is is it's for the customers that are there and paying patrons now if somebody were to come on site and leave a car there for and we noticed that it was there for a numerous amount of time um we would contact authorities and they would either come to tow it or we would you know if it was something with the school and we were notified that somebody needed a parking space would it be okay you know that's on a store by store basis but that would have to come from the administration we would not allow any parking on our location at all okay just um word to the wise i probably would not get into that um and certainly post signs stating that fact because some of those games can get yeah parking all over February understood um last thing where was the students i know we spoke about underage consumption of alcohol and tobacco products and whatnot um once again that goes back to my original point certainly develop whoever the manager is they really should get to know the administrators and the school resource officers at hillside and that will significantly reduce multiple headaches yes um but other than that anyone else has have a follow-up all right so we'll go with mr davis mr mr miller then i think we should be done with follow-ups this question is for the applicant and you don't have to answer this but i do have a lot of heartburn because there was a fueling station here before and i don't know i'm not in there financial records but i think it was of adequate size i just don't understand why do we have to have more than eight fueling stations when correct from wrong a circle k makes more than money on in-store sales versus gas sales i'm concerned because you're going to have a larger footprint of gas stations that means that's larger runoff if that's a set footprint that circle k's have to have 10 or 12 then that's the answer but i really think you guys should consider keeping it the way it is and develop your circle k and have it based on in-store sales because if i'm incorrect then i'm incorrect but convenience stores make most of their money on in-store sales but you can answer that or just leave it as a convenience stores do make a majority of their money inside however we've done our studies at this location and to answer your question our new our new construction i don't want to stick to a dollar amount but they're north of two million dollars and in order for us to get our return on our investment we have you know the fuel piece is a very very big piece so you know when we go to when we go to look at locations especially with the high amount of traffic that's there during peak hours you're going to that's the reason why we go to those eight mpds we would like to do 10 but we do think that eight is sufficient with our studies the amount of the density in the location in the surrounding area as well as the amount of traffic at you know peak peak times in the morning peak times in the evening also football games and whatnot and different events over there there will be a lot of traffic in and out of there in and out of that location and there'll be people waiting for gas and so we you know for peak times that is the adequate amount and it is a preferred layout that circle k does for all of our new locations all right i wish you the best of luck thank you thank you anyone else okay so what what i'm going to do what i'm going to do for your follow-up typically we don't do this but since you was a little bit late it's all right we'll give you two minutes all right is that okay okay that's fine okay i just want to ask to um circle k members um what's the um is it going to affect the um the land like across the street from circle k they're going to affect the um property lines and are they going to make sidewalks on the um on the side of circle k and everything else are wide in the road they're bigger on wide in the road wider or are you just going to stand on the other side on where circle k is going to be located at the plans that the the planning department has given us um the road will be widened not on your property um it is going to be on the circle k property and so um i do not believe that there's any document showing that that your property will be affected for what the circle k property does um and from an environmental standpoint your property will not be affected from what we do we're actually going to go in and clean it up if there are any issues currently there today and then we will we have monitoring systems state of the art we use state-of-the-art fiberglass tanks and then everything as we stated that you know when we talked at the meeting so um we can assure you that we'll do as bad as good of a job as any convenience store operator in the country okay another thing too we have a dish tier two in front of the house oh hold on so the dish network issues i'm going to let you guys talk about that offline okay appreciate it it's okay thank you um but just for the record uh mr judge can you certify his answer about the transportation then we'll move on yeah bill judge transportation the applicant is required to make a number of roadway improvements i have not researched whether or not they can fit that all those improvements within the right away sounds like they represent it that they can um so if they were not then they would have to negotiate with any property owners for any construction easements or right away to to acquire those okay good enough all right mr miller all right thank you both giving us the minutes and everything all right you're welcome thank you mr chairman uh i have a lot of concerns about this rezoning i really don't object to a convenience store on the site it's been the traditional use for the site it's operated inside the cn zone the cn zone is an imperfect zone but it is a better neighbor to residential properties immediately abutting it than the uh commercial general zone is and why we spent a lot of time talking about how convenience store might operate on this parcel the fact is is if we vote for this rezoning we will be allowing a whole host of uses under general commercial that we haven't talked about and when we propose a rezoning uh we have to be comfortable with the most intense use under the zoning code not merely the applicants proposed use i have a lot of misgivings here i don't like this cook road ingrid grass this essentially brings commercial traffic off of fable street around the corner onto a residential street uh the applicant said that they need this uh for trucks delivering and what have you but there are homes directly across the street from this access point it's going to change this neighborhood it's going to make those homes less desirable as homes uh and for that reason i would like to see we already have a development plan in the works i cannot believe that we cannot make a better development plan to make a better neighbor by cutting down the uses that would be allowed in gc that are not proposed that nobody says they want but if they went in here would be inappropriate neighbors for single family homes next door uh i would like to see uh cutting down uses i mean i don't see this might be a good convenience store site i don't see this as being a very good site for a nightclub but one would be allowed under the general commercial zone these things worry me the applicant mentioned lighting i have trouble with lighting with neighbors living immediately behind this place uh seems to me a the appropriate committed element could could solve some of those lighting problems i'm a little worried about buffering because i know that there is a sanitary sewer easement that cuts through the buffer which would diminish its uh effectiveness if the city went through and had to get to work and cut down a lot of trees that buffer would pretty much go away so maybe we could reorganize buffer my own feeling about this is i would like to see this development plan made better and if it took a month to make it better so that this circle k could be a good neighbor to these neighbors and have a better development plan where the neighbors have worked it out and thought through some of these issues and come up with the appropriate commitments i'd like to vote for this project a month from now rather than against it tonight thank you all right mr pageant and that for that we can get a motion if no one else just as a follow-up i'm looking out there right now see about 60 seats i see three people from from the neighborhood and i don't see 63 concerns out in the seats about what's going to do to the area right now i think anything that we do to that area now is a positive note what we have out there now seeing it from a standpoint of of what i do for a living uh is is a is a lot worse i think anytime we can improve the site whether we put an accident off of cook road or we put two off of fable street what i look at right now i don't see any concerns sitting out there for that as an issue i just think we need to move on and make this vote make a motion gonna make the motion i'll make a motion that we support the circle k the z one three zero zero zero one eight second all right moving probably second all those in favor let it be known by raising your right hand any any opposition case z one three zero zero zero one eight has passed 12 to and one against all right thank you we'll move down to item eight a downtown open space plan good evening good evening i'm tom dalson with the planning department i'll be speaking about the downtown open space plan today um first i'd like to give you a presentation outline um we uh and this follows the the construct of the book which we've the plan document which we've just uh handed you um and uh the presentation will cover our goals for the project objectives and analysis um our participatory design process uh our staff uh recommendations and our implementation strategies so our downtown open space goals were were formed uh with a lot of community collaboration um our goals became um what we desired for downtown uh to see downtown in the future we wanted a variety of open spaces opportunities for outdoor activities connection to urban neighborhoods and design that complements the urban fabrics so our objectives were to assess current open space inventories to see what we had and what was working for us to identify potential new public open spaces and then to recommend policy and ordinance changes so our public participation process was very robust um we started with a um online and in-person open space survey which covered a lot of attitudes about downtown open space um we had um several workshops um that were drawing very active design workshops with the community uh these covered open space needs teams uh got together drew master plans um for the downtown which can which proposed open space locations and connected them uh and then finally we had a open space design charrette where um staff selected certain sites we wanted the the um teams to explore and uh we had them draw concepts within this plans we took the information from the public and then applied our planning knowledge um and then continuously presented this back to the public through our websites um and word of mouth so we've had about five meetings to continuously re um gain input from this community and then um present our concepts to the community and we've also met with boards commissions stakeholders as well as our universities um and within within um the city and county governments um our final presentation um or our latest presentation was all of our concepts and we presented the draft booklet which you have in your hands on February 6th so uh to get into sort of the the scope of the project I'd like to talk about our downtown open space types the first type I'd like to discuss is um public open space um public open space has the highest degree of accessibility it's owned by the public and largely programmed by the public our second type is downtown open spaces uh of downtown open spaces our open spaces at public building uh these are open spaces that have um that are are are very meshed with the architectural program they're owned by the public and administered by the public but they have a different degree of access um such as um the uh justice center so slightly more exclusive access um a third type of downtown open space is the semi-public spaces and these are very um uh we have um have several in downtown including the american tobacco we call them semi-public spaces and they're privately owned but the public is invited to access them and then our fourth type is private um which uh private open spaces which the plan actually does not cover um to give you an idea about the downtown this is our um uh we are concentrating on a um a small geographical area of the downtown in blue are our identified semi-public open spaces and orange are our public open spaces our public open spaces and in purple are our open spaces in front of public buildings and then we also have some major landmarks of the Durham ball parks currently um this is what our public open space network like uh looks like and the um the border around it the buffer is represents about an 800 foot walking area many of our participants um and insisted that these walk walk the open spaces should be very walkable and connected um we get into uh some of the issues of character what the open spaces will look and feel like and we got into ideas about civic space that serves um has the maximum amount of accessibility to the public and has the had um is tends to take a more harder urban urban edge and then nature space spaces which can contain more environmental programming so our functions um we have uh we want our spaces to do to work very hard for us uh we want them to be able to host civic gatherings we want um them to be an environmental resource to host uh recreational facilities and also provide degrees of connection uh in transportation um another thing is we want these open spaces to announce um when you're entering into the downtown to announce that the downtown is a special place so with our recommendations uh we have uh staff um has general policy recommendations on the ways we see we can improve the downtown uh through open space renovation of existing open spaces and we've identified these we've also identified what's what's working well uh new public open space improve connectivity and then we've um the final section of the plan is about implementation and funding for our master plan uh in light green these are spaces we've identified that need a uh look at or a serious revision in dark green these are spaces that we've identified that could be new public open spaces for downtown and we've also identified connective trail corridors our open space concepts which will which will present are uh illustrative only and they're to be developed later but they reference our public participation process they explore allow us to explore open space opportunities and discuss with the other um staff they visualize the site potential and they describe the characteristics for early planning of the spaces so renovation of existing spaces we've identified three um that could use a a renovation uh rotary park 102 west main street green space and the convention center plaza relatively um simple matter and um of the 102 west main street we wanted to preserve the historic viewshed to the historic crest building um in front of the in front of the park and the park is actually functioning fairly well as a um small open space almost a park at park uh general services is currently working on um some of the improvements uh within this um park as we speak rotary park is another area that was a um byproduct of the the loop plan done um so we looked at um at possibly um a renovation uh to raise the profile on the gateway function of um rotary park um the space is a bit more complex um our main concern was to preserve a viewshed between the carolina theater and the armory um currently we felt that the open space um that's existing on the site this is the Durham convention center and there's the marriott hotel uh wasn't functioning as well as it could be um this concept looks at clearing a view um uh having a clean view through the to the carolina plaza but um it includes another more innovative feature when we presented the initial plan to general services they um were interested in um possibly having a a grass roof structure underneath um taking advantage of the grade uh change the steep grade change on foster street um and uh even having an extension of the convention center below the plaza for new public open space um we have identified several spaces church and roxboro street mangan street and the d-pack uh and this is a large uh larger scale illustrative of the the spaces where we're considering um this idea is uh proving fairly popular um one of the uh the concepts within this space is that we have several um buildings downtown including the public library the downtown library parks and recreation fire station city hall plaza the historic trinity methodist church and none of these actually really relate to to each other um it's hard to visualize the site because currently the site is um the loop site so it's this area here is just traffic islands and there's several lanes of traffic with the um the most um most preferred loops at reduced scenario this um uh this space would become a peninsula connected back down to the downtown so it's an opportunity for the down for um both um good um park planning but also good urban design to use an open space to connect and make this area make sense uh to all and relate the public buildings to one another one of the um issues that came up continuously within the uh participation section is the difficulty of getting uh to city hall as you may have witnessed today um we have an opportunity within the existing um this is an existing parking lot to create a front door for the city hall or a front lawn for the city hall uh improve connectivity um improve the american tobacco trailhead improve the crossing at pedigree and ramser street the and the railroad corridor east west greenway and then north south belt line greenway um the american tobacco trailhead was um we took a look at uh it's currently um highly utilized we saw some issues with it as we were studying it um both sides are covered in weeds and and uh invasive species down downstream and forest health park has um undergone a um stream restoration but if you do downstream and you don't do upstream then um so we proposed um an upstream renovation to um complement the trail uh the existing american tobacco trail um the Durham performing arts center um highly successful um but it has no landscape in front of it um so we have a great uh Durham amenity um and it's viewed through um through a parking lot and a grassy field so we're proposing a landscape in front of it uh one of the uh ideas about connectivity is to uh create links between um the downtown and the american tobacco campus uh with um the downtown and connecting to the belt line um uh area to the belt potential belt line trail that runs to the north and the south we wanted to do this through um uh what's termed road dieting bill judges still um a road dieting and um also a connection over the existing trail uh rail trestle and this is an example of what we'd be proposing for ram sir street where we take out a quarter mile of turn lane um and then install um bicycle and pedestrian paths uh and streetscaping so our existing uh public open spaces what we're this is um what is is currently existing and um this is more representative of whatever um what we could do um with this plan uh one other aspect is we've uh looked at um semi-public open spaces and how to increase those as they develop in large um large lot parcels of over four acres so currently we've projected um we have about 23 acres of um semi-public open space uh open space of public buildings and then public open space uh we have a population that may double in size by 2016 we're looking at a um large increase um to uh to fulfill the demand of the downtown um downtown population increase and its popularity as a tourist destination and as a gathering for all of uh Durham so with our implementation strategies we're coordinating continuously with other departments prioritize recommendations earmarking residential uh impact fees to be spent downtown um we're proposing udo requirements for semi-public open space on light uh sites larger than four acres and we're looking at open space improvements within the cip and also once we have the plan we can begin to see grants for these spaces and I'll open for I'll open for questions at the time all right thank you any so we have uh mr davis uh I haven't looked at the whole thing but with the development of areas for open space uh the initial cost and the maintenance concern me has there been any looked at zero scaping or native plants that would be advantageous for us to put here because I don't know if the city of Durham is great but the grounds will be pretty uh extensive and trying to maintain all these future open space sites as a landscape architecture speaking my language we've uh I think with um that actually has not been um been addressed because we wanted to leave a lot of this uh to the to the next phase to more of the design phase but zero scaping is part of good and low maintenance planning is is a is a uh good policy for down for downtown and urban areas yeah I just when we look at trying to get funding I mean I know the initial cost is probably higher but you know the long life cycle would be more advantageous so yeah if that's put into wording on grant funding I think it might be a good idea yeah we've also been um reminded by the parks department the maintenance is is an ongoing issue and should be included as part of this any strategy we have for open spaces okay thank you thank you commissioner Whitley um thank you for bringing this to us now I often thought that um the open space would be somewhere past Morgan to um I mean it was going north to downtown but here you're taking space you're suggesting space downtown as the focus it looks pretty but I've also thought and since I've been here on the planning commission that we haven't paid enough attention to parking you know and so my question to you is how is this going to impact parking excellent question sir we've um we've coordinated with the parking study that's ongoing for downtown of course also with transportation um one of the um the I believe trends in downtown parking is structured parking rather than surface level parking so but there are occasions within the concept of the plan where we've looked at potential areas that could serve a multimodal function such as at the train station and it there might be a seatable for parking but I think parking is one of those issues that the as we look at in the future where we're going to as a community look at should a space be continue to be surface level parking or can it serve a greater good by becoming open space so those are some of the issues that we've continuously been being weighing in the downtown this is also the plan does come from the planning department so we do deal with parking issues and development issues all the time um so it's a we have considered it sir I think I'm at the same place that um you started when you started your explanation so we really have them figured out um what we're going to do with parking is that the gist of everything you've said if I may sarah young with the planning department one of the things that we've done in this plan and I don't know how much you all know about it is downtown and Ninth Street were recently the subjects of a pretty intensive parking study by the transportation department for downtown that study identified two specific sites for new parking structures those are the two empty parking lots along morgan street right now so one of the things that we were very conscientious about was making sure to not propose anything for those two sites so in theory the issue of parking future parking demand for decades to come has already been addressed through that study and we've coordinated with that so none of our recommendations you know step on the toes of the parking study okay uh let me give this so I'm gonna have to get out of my car and walk more yes sir and I think my doctor must have called you and told you tell me that I'm sure my wife is listening she's saying you're right um but that's the plan it is to take advantage of open space and and to move traffic someplace else I believe the plan is to work with traffic but also right size I include pedestrians and bicyclists as traffic so that's the tack that we're taking we want people to be have the opportunity to walk more but we don't necessarily um walk the line walk the line thank you so much thank you anyone else miss uh huff and gibbs uh just one question the railroad trestle over Chapel Hill Street do we own that no ma'am thank you mr gibbs well I just have a brief comment on this if you look into uh in depth in this plan and by the way well I've seen it before but I'll tell you again this is this is a great plan and I commend the planning department for this but this there are a lot of things that have to be coordinated within this thing it's uh from there could be streets uh reconfigured we still don't know what's going to happen with the railroad tracks but basically this plan will coordinate well with that and that word coordinate is something you need to keep in mind I'm speaking to the to all of us to everybody I guess within earshot there there is an awful lot of things still left to be done to make all coordinated to bring all this stuff together to work uh and I do not envy the task of the planning department in doing this but I think you can count on on us and everybody else to for input and help but uh this is a great plan and I thank you thank you anyone else this doesn't require a bolder just more informational so we don't have any questions thank you yeah mr chair members of planning commission we will be coming back next month asking for recommendations this was really just an attempt to get you exposed to the issues making sure we answer any of your questions and then we will be back next month with a much briefer overview and ask for a vote all right so yeah so take the next month and kind of look through this uh nice beautiful publication and come with any recommendations next month all right thank you do we have any announcements what do we have next month scott we have the just mentioned the public hearing for the Durham open space uh downtown open space plan we have another comprehensive planning project which whose name I can't remember at the moment and one zoning case okay good any other announcements no well of all hearts and minds are clear we will adjourn