 So yeah, thank you all for bearing out with us like throughout the day If you listen to the previous talk about the book commerce about the speed of station This is the logical step and this is going to be amazing talk about the SEO is a lean I'm going to try pronouncing your Muller how sir Margo. Yeah. Yeah. You know Margo. So, yeah, take it away easily. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you everyone for being here I know that you might be tired. It's been a long day, but exceptional day the Organization team here always does like a great job. So today, we're talking about SEO. I am a SEO specialist and I'm based in Los Angeles, so I speak French most of the time for my clients and with my clients I've been working in-house in an agency and four years ago. I started my own consulting agency So I'm working for myself today You might know me from one of the podcast I host also I'm the co-founder of SEO nerd Switzerland So you're very welcome to join us to we have our next in-person event in burn in May so really if you're around just come it's gonna be great to talks and Like while I am a consultant and I own my agency most of the time I don't work on my own. So I work with other people. They can be either internal like parts of the clients team or they can be Other consultants most of the time SEO will work with someone who's in charge of the development So someone from a tech team and some run from a content team. So I'm like in a the link in the middle I'm Very shy, so I'm doing my best if you come to talk to me later. I might look uncomfortable. That's because I am But I'm very friendly sir if you have a question just I'll be at the me later, you know the after thing so yeah, just come to me and also with my In the project. I'm really well known for being the one who's very precise So I'm like very rigorous, you know, so I know I'm always well-planned And my favorite part about SEO is analyzing data, so I like Google sheets I like tracking data. I like understanding what's going on and prioritizing. I am not a tech SEO, right? This is what collaboration looks like so my job is basically to analyze data a situation and provide recommendation on What are the threats to be fixed for crawling and indexing and what are the content opportunities for the content team to develop? So I suppose you are in the depth team sort of type, right? Excellent so today I'm here Although I'm shy because I think it's really important to understand what other Specialists do to be able to collaborate well in the SEO community. There are lots of lots of talks about Oh, how to collaborate with dev is just such a nightmare So maybe you have this kind of conversation sometimes. Oh how to collaborate with SEO. They search nightmares. So my idea of Efficient collaboration is really like when everyone understands a bit how the other experts approach the project This is why at the end of this talk I'm going to show you my deliverable So you understand what it is you will have to work with So here's what you learn This is as much as I would have liked to do. This is not a training. So I've added a little star So I'm not going to train you on how to implement things I'm going just to make you aware of what other things you have to think about when you are Dealing with the clients who's asking you for an SEO approach or when you're dealing with An SEO specialist. So this is really just about making you aware of the things and then you can follow up Of course with trainings just like the one we had in the other room with Remkes write about the speed and we'll touch about two Very important topic in the SEO communities, which are migrations We always talk about migrations and the specific challenge of what is it be to be e-commerce? So there are some things that always Some type of challenges that always come back Whatever the project I Hope you will understand how to add SEO in your process and how to work with the deliverable and Of course, I I hope you will be aware of the factors Despite the robots and the text and and the tech that also play a role in the SEO success of a project So that's a lot of things, but I also really love a good story and since I know this is The one before last talk My talk is like a story. So basically it's the best kind of story because it's Use case. Yeah, so it's actually a true story of a project that happened last end of last year and Still happening now So on each project, I am hired like I have a mission In an initial situation and my mission is always similar. So I'm here to get that traffic People hire me because they want traffic on their website So but that can mean different type of things for the clients the clients can be a company who's selling something but the clients can also be a project or an association and In the end this traffic must result in an action this action can vary between Filling in a contact form for lead generation like websites. It can be buying a product who commerce websites. It can be Being a new member of an association or the nation or all of this thing keep in mind that a client is not satisfied Purely with traffic. That's the difficult thing is that they think they want traffic but they want actually the results that's supposed to come with traffic and If at the end of the day, I'm like, oh, I'm so happy. We have so many impression on that word if nothing happened on the website like they are not going to care about this increasing impressions in the search in the SERP in the Another one of these words search engine results page. There we go but while Each project has sort of the similar Mission for me like each situation is unique. So as a SEO I need to evaluate There's a big job of evaluating the situation and what I can play with when I arrive on the project So let's let's deep dive in the situation. I'm talking about a B2B project So this is a company that's working with other company. This company is Active in three different type of industries because it has been expanding. So it's like lightning And lightning especially for all of this little thing for exits and stuff and the sounds, you know, when there is a fire Obviously, this is an industry that is Regulated so you can't do whatever you want to do. There are lots of norms and formations that they have to do The company is based in Romandie. It's working well for them in Romandie and of course That's why they have a little bit of money to invest in the website. They're like, oh, we want to expand now So basically they say I want new market share. So now I'm doing well in French I want to do as well and says German and Let's see what what how can this work out? So basically, this is why that's what Triggered they need for this new website Also, they are telling me We are building a group. So remember they have three domain of activity. That means they have three names Three brand names. They want to be known as a group. So they have they're going for fourth Brand name. This is important for SEO, right? And they also say we want an e-commerce But you have an e-commerce. Oh, no, you have two different e-commerce on two different domains And they all built differently Okay So for the clients, it seems pretty straightforward But let's just discuss a little bit. What's actually what what is actually the client saying? Without having the awareness to say it with the words So what is saying is I have four domain. I want now one domain I have two who commerce Differently I want one e-commerce, but I want all of these products on that e-commerce on that domain And I'm like, oh Okay The fun is starting right they also saying something without saying it they saying oh, we are rebranding Remember we want to be known as a group, but it means that the words people use to search and find them change So they want rebranding and they also want a new products because they have this Third field of activity, you know there there was one domain without a who commerce website Because it's the last field of activity that hasn't one yet. So they want new products. They want new content So I'm like, uh-huh Excellent Okay, so but in my head really what I see is just an alarm because for us SEO and who that's why when we enter the fun part It means migration migration and So if you if you're on Twitter or if you've been to SEO Conferences, you must know that migrations. We talk about this all the time It's just such a big topic and so in the SEO heads a migration is Basically any type of change that happens on the website. So this is very large, but anytime you add a layer of Change it adds a layer of complexity. So let's see what all these changes so different types of migrations different types of flags which means different types of risks I'm hired to keep the traffic So that's why I call that risk, right? But it's also opportunities when it's done, right? So I'm not saying you should not do it. I'm saying you should think about it and Let's your client know also that there will be a part of a job that is mitigating the risks Also, this is good for expectation management, you know So they know they have a good idea with lots of opportunities But they also know in advance make it written if you like in an email or something like, you know, it's going to make some risk You know just in case something happens So you can change domain. This is a migration for me as SEO for whatever Reason it is that you're changing adding a language Changing folders, whatever. This is migration. You can merge domain So this is people like lots of clients like this because it's expensive to have three websites It's less expensive to have one website, of course because you cut some costs and also you can hopefully Merge the traffic and the visibility. So this is one type of migration You can do a platform migration. So this is also something in the SEO head that is risky type of migration New design new brand image new content or beware a new content architecture Starts playing with URL moving pages around. This is migrations So we are in in this fields migration where that's your keywords to look for articles basically and tips and stuff Also new structure if you're changing HTTP from HTTPS, but that's the kind of easy one if this is all there is it's fine, but most of the time it's a combination like Why'd you one thing at a time when you can do multiple things at a time, right? Most of the client they're like, oh, we're changing and also I like this leap of faith. It's like, yeah, of course I mean go for it, but let's just think about so this is very generally speaking the higher key of the complexity so While changing from HTTP to HTTPS and keeping the structure and the technical level This is going to be easy in terms of redirect, right? you will nearly not have to write them and like map the redirect by hand you can Automatically, you know like well, you can do it fast basically, but each time you add a layer of Change you add a layer of complexity in terms of the work. There is to be done and You add a layer of risk basically and risk of what risk of losing the traffic risk of Confusing the robots because this is one thing robots hate they hate Confusion and they also hate when they go to an address they used to know Oh, there wasn't no some contents at this URL. This is where I want to go. Oh It's changed Maybe it's changed. It's still the same address, but it's completely changed not only just the content But also technically new platform or worst The address it's gone. It's somewhere else So you read it like them somewhere else and they have to crawl everything they have to get to Understand what is on your website again? And is it relevant? Are you an expert as you were before is it just like not as good as before so basically this is why? it's risk confusions and possible mistakes also so Okay, so I've already recapped why it's really risky for robots So it's risky for robots because they know what they like to know what they get into because they want to offer Good content to users who are doing a search because they want users to keep searching. That's how they make money, right? Oh Right so change to the websites means you have to go through the Pro the the the robots have to go through the fact of crawling may be rendering and indexing again and you have Multiple opportunities to make it go wrong for one reason or another So really just it's it's good for clients to know that if they have an idea too They especially like to move content around For some reason, I don't know like if you move this page in this menu to somewhere else It has an impact something as simple as that so it just you know now you know how to make your point So the more rate the more changes the more risk of course, but also the more opportunities So one of my job is to understand the level of opportunities for each project So the risks it's not only me saying it's risky So Gary is member of the search relation team at Google. So it's basically Google spokesperson for the SEO community. Here's someone you can tag him ask question. There's also John Muller and Martin split Lizzie Sassman doesn't answer as much. She's more on the content side, but Someone to follow right So search engine may go nuts That's a fact and it also means that when even if you do everything Right by the book. There is like a moment after you put you after you do your relaunch where Search engine like you might see some laws. You might see some stuff during a couple of days a couple of weeks Hopefully not But you might see some fluctuation Okay, it's not going to go like this. It might go a bit like this and then up Okay, so that's perfectly normal But hopefully you have to track that it's not a plunge because you know, we don't want to plunge obviously So there are other factors that play a role in the success of a project in terms of SEO There is the objective and the expected results of course the competition Basically a website is never all green flags perfectly constructed And that's not what we aim at because it's too expensive. It doesn't make sense Website is always a little bit messy, but hopefully a little bit less messy than the competition So that's the idea if your competition is really good It's like in any race any sports, right? If the first is really good You have to train a lot to beat him. So that's the idea other thing of course is the tech that you're using like and how You know how to use this tech. So the level of Knowledge of the people in the team for me make a real big difference if it's someone who's like Rumpus just so Perfect at performance and speed it's going to be easier easy to To say the things I want him to do and it's going to find solution but if it's if it's someone who is sort of More on the beginning site on the tech is going to be more complicated because I'm going to say that some words and Use some vocabulary and it's going to be new for that person And this is basically what's happened on that project is that the team was kind of beginner So for me, it means that I have to offer Recommendation that are on the easy side of complexity. So if something is not needed Better just not to use it, right? If something is not solving a solution like lots of people love hreflang stack For the language, but if your website has two languages and the robots understood it has two languages Don't bother with this like it's just a visable flag. You don't really need it. So that's for you to see a bit like I have to expect the people on the tech team also to do a little bit of Training I can offer Articles, but there is a step we have to do to meet in the middle for the project to be successful And of course the budgets and resources. This is a very important thing because the client is asking a Development team a content team to work on the project for like Several hundred products plus me. So that's an extra expense So he wants to be seen on these words, but does he have does he have the budget to actually write the contents? You know and some sometimes clients they have very high expectations But they just don't have the budget that go together. I mean at some points you have an e-commerce website you have to at least write a custom title on each page if you have four hundred products it means that someone has You have you need this you need a minimum Like the minimal content to survive right so sometimes it's really about telling the client all right So you have to take it easy there and maybe start with a Okay enough version with less content to go first and refine later. So that's an option and Of course here the branding and the marketing strategy is very important the clients wants to change its name but if the clients keeps the same kind of internal documentation and Sends all of the letters to the clients with the old names. There is no way the clients are going to recognize That company for its new name and search for the new name. So if you Or okay, you redirect the websites with the name that is performing well but still Like the home page You don't have a home page with the name that was the brand name that was performing well. So it's risky, right? So it has to go together. It really has to go together So now Opportunities on that website. I was really happy because there is really untapped potential the website is indexed for a series of words I can see that in the search console. I have the data of how many Impressions they have on this word and on the words I can see in Google analytics that Yes, it makes sense that they want to work on organic traffic because it is the biggest source of Traffic, but what I also see is like is that if I take This list of words the website is indexed for in href Which is one of the tool I use and I extract the search volume I can see there is a huge difference between the impression we actually get and the Possible impression we have because the search volume is actually much higher Which means that we don't get impressions as much as we could. So basically this is potential, right? And Also, what was a little bit scary on that website when I arrived is that There were no index tag on all the product page Which means that the business was Indexed for business relevant words like éclairage the security, but it was not indexed for the name of this Green thing exit controller, right? Which means that this is a huge potential I mean like none of the products were indexed like someone if you don't know how to use a no index tag don't use it like Don't use it, but also this is gold for me, right because I'm like, oh interesting so yeah product pages and Also, there was a multiplication of irrelevant URL. How do I know that? So this is what's what I call an irrelevant URL looks like In an e-commerce website, you know, you have the category pages Hopefully with pretty URL and you have the filters because the filters makes it easy for the users to actually find what they want on that Specific website you have one product, but with different types of voltage for instance because it's electricity So that means lots of URL. These URL belong to the Current websites, but also to the older version of the site like I don't know really So they are like too many of this URL I can see that because when I go in in the search console like I know how many Pages I have with actual contents because I have crawled the website with creaming frog so I know how many pages they are with content rights and When I go to the performance reports, I see that they are much much more URL index Compared to actual URL where I have content on the website, which means that the content is Diluted like robots don't know where the content is like it's it's the same basically it's You know all over the place. So this is a good in sign for me that Whoo, and now we get to the second cool part of the talk is it it's an indication for me that there was no indexation strategy because There is a huge other topic. We always discuss with e-commerce website The risk of this multiplication of URL. Maybe you've heard about crawl budget diluted like Duplicate content and all of this thing, but this is one of the reason why this happens It's called Faceted navigation so in the SEO world where we when we look for information about this Opportunity but also threats of e-commerce website. We look for the word faceted navigation So faceted navigation is great Because you can provide exactly what the user is looking for So it's better to have a new URL with Parameters indexed if there is a high search volume than no URL at all So this is good. This is an opportunity But it's also a threat because if all of these URL do not match an actual search intent It just diluting your website in lots lots of URL. So that's why it's a threat and it's an opportunity So Parameters are tricky because they cause issues such as duplicate contents lots of URL same contents or nearly same content Thin low quality pages you get tagged for that Google notices it's not good like what happens diluted link equity. This is when you have External links that show to your website, but you have multiplication of URL So it just doesn't work as well and also the wasted crawl budgets So the wasted crawl budget for B2B website It was not as important, but if you work in a B2C with lots more products That can be an issue. You don't want Google to stop crawling your websites at some points because it's too big Oh because it's too slow That can happen too. All right, so there's a whole lot of issues that that arise with e-commerce websites No, okay, let's go back to the topic. So we were saying this is a B2B There are a high number of bad URL. So which means low content and we have lots of opportunities for new keywords Excellent good good good thing. The competition is not better So this is a quick thing. I really like to do so Moclay Okay, keywords. So that's a list of keywords. I've scraped and I've taken from my client the competition Monthly search volume MSA keyword difficulty. This is extracted from href It's telling me how hard it's going to be to rank and how much opportunities do we have? I'm pressing on actual click. This is extracted from the search console from my clients websites I'm trying to see like if I have a 20 Montreys search volume for on-du-leur am I actually indexed for that word? No and a it means that my formula Velocop did not find something. So we are not indexed for that keyword, but we have like 20 Opportunity of 20 people reaching our website basically Good thing is so conversion is empty because these clients not tracking conversion So we have no idea if it's actually really making money because we don't track the clicks, you know, check out thing and Competition one two three This is also from href. It's like excellent to spy others And so you can export the data of the keywords The other companies are indexed for and you can also say how much traffic they get out of each keyword These data is less accurate than the data you can get through the Google search console But of course, I don't have access to the search console of the competition. So I do with what I have So the good thing is I Can do better. I can do so much better. I can beat them I can do also this research for French and for German because this is one thing to do it in French But it's another thing to do it in German because we go for the German market But that's good potential whoo-hoo, which means that I can actually promise something to the clients. So My plan I have a big plan. So it's not big enough here to have all of it But basically I want to clean up the mess. I want to all of this bad URL to go away I want to clean this up. I want clean structure. I want to beat the competition So I want to say to my clients after six months. Oh, we have ten percent more keywords that compared to this competitor Of course, I want to drive traffic That's and I want to keep the good thing because there are a couple of good things on that website and I need to make sure that we transfer this to the next website. So My plan is to focus on a small number of URL with very good content So I want to create strong product page and I want to create strong category pages, which means creating content also Service pages we have some of them. So we need to transfer what's existing Basically, these are the home page of the other domain. We are migrating on the number one domain So I need to select the technical requirements to make something that it's actually realistic to make for the team and That's going to do What I'm aiming for So really it's about cleaning up the mess my offer looks like this I have things for the what I call SEO optimization for the new website. I have I provide support for the migration I Provide Recommendations to track the performance and track the KPI to say oh, we did a good job. We did a bad job. It's bringing money It's not I Need also time to collaborate with the technical team now This is the very difficult part to actually give a number on because like how it's difficult for me to know How long I'm going to spend? Talking with the dev team because I need to know how much they actually know already about e-commerce And how aware they are about what I'm going to say same with the content team The less they know the more I have to train them and of course a follow-up after six months, you know just checking whatever Happened happened as intended so in the SEO optimization. There are lots of tasks Keyword research French and German the content architecture the wire frames for selection of pages Again, because the writing team is not able to provide to create the wire frames based on my keyword recommendation And they are not able to understand the search intense. So I have to do this job for them and I do also provide a product pages optimization So they are like the evergreen pages and the product who comes part of pages URL mapping with keywords and writing Basic tech SEO requirements some of them I add I have a big list and I choose what makes sense What doesn't for each client and of course an indexation strategy, especially commerce So we don't end up with lots and lots of URL Now my promise is really to support the team to create that website that will bring the traffic And when I do a contract I really need like when I sign a contract I need to make sure that I can all know my Guarantees basically I'm responsible for delivering that thing and In that specific project. I'm not a who commerce SEO specialist So I introduce Kara to the team who works like she is an SEO who commerce specialist Basically her job is when I say I want to do this that way Kara is telling me. Oh, yeah with who commerce That's going to be easy. You can do this or she's going to tell me. Oh, no with who commerce This is complicated. Let's find another way and I expect the development team to talk with her as well It's true that in this situation the clients might not pay for that time So if I think I need someone to help me I consider it's my Responsibility to make sure I deliver something that is proper and I also expect that is the responsibility of the tech team To make sure they can find the solution to what I'm recommending, right? So this is serious. This is like the contract stuff, you know So let's dig into the deliverable So this is a keyword search keyword search is a very simple document. It's a Google sheet You have basically one colon for the keywords you have one colon For the monthly search volume and one colon for the keyword difficulty You do this is French you do this in German. Is it the same? Is it different? Very often Swiss German don't really search like we do. Oh, I don't know other way around So it's really good to do both and make sure they reconcile, you know To find these keywords I talk with my clients. I listen how they speak about their job and the words they use I scrap stuff from the competition if the competition is doing that maybe I should do it too So that's crap. Lots of things. There is no wrong into copying someone who is doing well. It's called inspiration, right? then I do Competition and search intent analysis so basically once I have chosen my keywords I have to make sure that the website of my clients is going to answer Better the search intent than the competition. So on a selection of keywords I do With href and then with a manual search I look at what is on the page that is ranking well Like content-wise and also technical wise like why is it ranking? Well, there's something Google likes about that page What is it? So there's really this sort of digging and discovery to understand the search intent Because I want to beat them. So I need to do at least as well or hopefully better Right, then I do content architecture. So it looks like this again. It's a very simple document It just colors. I'm trying to think that the best perform in keywords should be high up in the hierarchy Or if something is really at the bottom in the hierarchy I need to have clever way of linking that because otherwise it's just the last page that it's not going to help so my plan is ready to organize something that That shows Google that we answer the semantic fields of these expertise we answer the semantic fields like of these products, so he has to be structured and Also identify what is the traffic page and what is the conversion conversion pages? So there are some pages. They are not going to bring traffic ever. It's not their point it they are meant to like Make the client feel secure, you know, so you need to have those as well somewhere and link them to make them accessible. I Do wireframe for a selection of pages. So this is like Again, it's not designed because as SEO I I couldn't care less about design honestly I just don't want some wiggly stuff complicated funds and I want easy and So what I plan is the content architecture. What's interesting here? Is I want to make clear both through to the writing team and to the development team Where are the important stuff on the page? Which are for example the internal linking the title and this kind of stuff? I also advise how to track the KPIs. So the idea again, it's like I In the search console in analytics we have KPIs, but you need to understand how you're going to say all this actually made money so they clicked on that button because I Want to make sure that the traffic I'm bringing is is bringing something to the clients and I want to make sure that If it's not bringing something to the clients, it's nothing to do with the page. Maybe it's the checkout process, right? So that's another question and check our process is really not this is typically a conversion pages not bringing traffic not really my thing and Of course I provide recommendation like how should look like a product page So this is like a page type and for that particular client like for lots of B2Bs if you have Just a custom title and three lines of what is it? It just goes such a long way and also be very careful about PDFs like if you have lots of PDFs just Add the technicalities on the page don't leave them in the in a PDF Especially because you don't want to have your PDF index instead of your product pages like what's happened with my clients So so that's the kind of recommendation. I provide for the product pages Bunch of basic tech SEO here It's really a selection and I tried to have basically as few Recommendation as possible for the dev team so You can hear this Okay, I don't know And then this is what the URL mapping looks like So basically I have to make sure that each page each keywords that is interesting in relevance has a page Has a page and I need to think if I can use the navigation and I do this also for The parts with the hook emers, so it's the same we have to discuss. There's a category There's a subcategory B2B clients wants to go granular They have categories for one product that does not work. Well Have at least four to six products in each categories. Otherwise you are again to this thing of Yeah And otherwise if you have too many categories and subcategories with too few products You have the same issues than with your URL with the parameters basically you have URL with nothing on your page So low content blah blah, etc And also I've writes the URL so I decide how they're going to look like once they are pretty You need to do this job in both French and German by the way So I do that for the evergreen pages and for the the catalog the e-commerce part So again, it has to do you have if you have a bilingual Websites you have to do both you can just you cannot just say I'll do the French and let's see what happens with the German Mostly the German is going to be a nightmare if you don't look at the URL because of the special characters So you have to think about this also B2B clients also sometimes have numbers In and signs in the name of the product which you might not want in the URL So really you need to check it out and the indexation strategy That's one before last delivery deliverable. I made it really simple So basically I Advide something that is not by the book you have lots of ways to tell to a robot what you should index and what you should not Since it was such a mess and I did not want to go into too much complexity My indexation strategy for the beginning was with robot txt I was like, okay We are just going to diesel low everything that's parameter because we just want to clean it up And also we don't have all of the products at the beginning So we already know there are too many categories, so we don't want to add too much So this is not by the book, but this is perfect for that client. So again it depends on Also, it was perfect for what the Technical team could do because I just provide the robot txt and say oh, this is what you should please use that Okay, but again, you should change that if you go easy at the beginning perfectly fine, but refine after a while Again, the plan is to go easy, but strong few page, but really good pages And the last deliverable I'm going to discuss here. It's um, I do I always take 12 months of Pages that have sense for SEO which are traffic pages impression pages and linked use pages so I get that from Google Analytics the search console and href and Then I merge that I clean it up. I don't want we don't need double obviously And then I send that to the client and I say alright now you have started writing We have the URL you can map them because when you have such thing as three domains going into one You have to do lots of URL mapping for the redirect manually and there's no way out of that unfortunately So yeah, that was the last and really go for 12 months Some people go for three, but this is not enough because they are business variation throughout the year So if you do your migration in September and you have the three month of summer You are not catching. What's important really not and then it gets scary, you know with the deep so go for 12 months alright choosing time right Thank you Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a link. Thank you so much So yeah as a work camp and though our community is highly opinionated and every talk about the SEO starts Like do you have like the favorite SEO plugin that you're using No, I don't have favorite SEO plugin because it really depends on the clients B2B B2C lead generation who commerce like It really depends what I have favorite things I have like favorite basic tech SEO implementation be relevant between your robot XT you sitemaps your you know index for instance like the Coherence it has to say the same things to the robots not one thing here one thing there You know You have questions from the audience. We have like limited we oh, yeah, that's There is Let's wait for you. You said you have to oh hi You said you have to deliver on every promise Which is wonderful? Has there been a situation or circumstance in which you felt no, I can't deliver and you have to tell the client no Yes with this project at some points I advised on the categories and subcategories for instance What would work well and the clients wanted to go granular and have close to nothing in these categories and and not Use the keywords and I told the client if you go this way I'm not this is not my responsibility if you do changes to My Google sheets with the URL and the categories. This is your responsibility Nice. Yeah, we have time for one more question. So please use it wisely Okay, I'll use it Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you so much