 Okay, we're going to get started this evening. Welcome everybody to Virtual Playhouse. I'm Dan on the Director of Development Programming for the Bedford Playhouse. I want to thank you all for tuning in tonight for what is going to be a really fascinating conversation about a really, really great book. For those of you who have read it, I'm sure that you have a lot of questions for Sam. For those of you who haven't read it, you should definitely run out and get yourselves a copy. It's a really, really great read, very quick, very, very enjoyable book. A couple of very quick housekeeping items. For those of you who might be using Zoom for the first time or not that familiar with it in this format. You should all should have at the bottom of your screen if you're on a laptop or near the top of your screen if you're on an iPad, there's a Q&A button. Please feel free at any point to ask a question using the Q&A after they talk for a little bit. John and Sam will take your questions and you can submit them through the Q&A feature. We are at the Bedford Playhouse currently closed. We're shut due to social distancing. So we ask, as always, if you enjoy this evening and you find you'd like to see more programming like this, that you take a moment before you shut your computers down and go to our website, BedfordPlayhouse.org, and consider making a donation to help support us in this period. There's hopefully a light at the end of the tunnel coming hopefully soon. But in the meantime, we're trying to do as much as we can in a virtual format and so any amount of support is much appreciated. You might also consider becoming a member members get discounts on special invitations to all different kinds of events. We do curbside concessions every Friday. Members get discounts on that. Again, all this is on our website, which is BedfordPlayhouse.org, and we thank you very much for your support in that. All right, without any further ado, we're going to introduce our founder, Playhouse founder, John Farr, who is your moderator for this evening, and I'd like to invite John to come on now and he will get the festivities rolling. Here I am. Welcome everybody. Thank you, Dan. Really excited to be here tonight. I am thrilled to introduce Sam Wasson, a fabulous writer who writes mainly about filmmakers and filmmaking, which is our favorite topic here at Playhouse. I've always been, I've been a fan of his for quite a few years now, ever since picking up his book, Fifth Avenue 5 AM, Audrey Hepburn Breakfast at Tiffany's and the Dawn of the Modern Woman. I basically picked it up, and I never put it down. It's that good. So if you haven't read it, you should. I recommend it to you. And his new book, which of course I've also read, The Big Goodbye, Chinatown in the last years of Hollywood, is also a real tour de force, detailing a fascinating transitional period in the movie business, as well as the making of a true masterpiece. So I know you can applaud virtually wherever you are. And so please do that as we welcome Sam Wasson. Oh, hello. There he is. Hi. Yeah. Well, I'm good. You're in LA. So it's all, it's nice out there. Well, it's nice, but we're under curfew. But it's nice at my house. It's a good place to be. Better than the White House. But we won't go, we won't go there. So, I'm going to jump right in. What was the genesis of this particular project, Sam? Is this something you wanted to do for a long time? The White House actually was the genesis for this because when, when, when Trump won, I turned to my friend Graham, who I was watching the election with. And I said, what's the precedent for this? What's the myth? What's the, what story are we going to latch on to, to try to give this a frame? And, and Chinatown came to my mind pretty soon thereafter that. So I thought, wow, this is the, this is the moment for Chinatown. But I don't think Donald Trump is anywhere near as cool as Noah Cross. That's my personal feeling. He's, he's about as evil. But maybe not as snazzy. No, no, no. Not as glamorous and as evil. No, he's not as glamorous. I don't think so. So the 70s that the period that you're covering was obviously a trans transformational period in Hollywood. That's been written about before, but you wrote about it in a very personal way, really talking about four key characters, the producer Robert Evans, the director Roman Plansky, Jack Nicholson, and the writer Robert town. Very clear. Did you actually get to interview all of them? No, I interviewed Evans and, and Polansky. I did not interview town or Jack. Hmm. I'm curious as to why Jack would not want to be interviewed about about this. I don't know if Jack's doing interviews so much. So many interviews right now. I spoke to Sandy Bressler, his agent and Bressler said to me, you know, Jack just is going to, he's not doing a lot of interviews. Yeah. And I said, all right, that's okay. He's been on the record pretty voluminously about this period. So there's was, you know, more than enough, it was just disappointing that I didn't get to, you know, shake his hand. It's the same for town. You know, he's, this movie has been famous for 40 years, 45 years. Yeah, for now, 45 years. Yeah, so, so all these guys are on the record. So in fact, the only two who weren't so much on the record were the guys that I, I got. Yeah, and you got Robert Evans, obviously before he just recently passed away. Yes. And of course, I got, I spoke with many other people who've never been on the record before about this movie. Yeah. I love the Silberts were one of the Richard Silbert and Anthony Silbert. Are they both, I'm sorry, are they alive? I should know that. Yeah, is alive and in Greece, as we speak, she lives in Greece and Thea Silbert was a costume designer that yes, Mr. in law of Richard Silbert who was the great production designer and production designed the graduate and who's afraid of Virginia Wolf and carnal knowledge than Mike, Mike Nichols movies and then Rosemary for Roman and, and obviously China. What was your take on Polanski. He is he bitter about what happened with regard and not being able to return to America. He feels that in an injustice has been done him somehow. Yeah, and I understand that he is a, as he says he is a fugitive from injustice. Which isn't to say that he wasn't guilty of a crime. Yeah, he certainly was, and a terrible crime, and confess to that. And in the plea deal with the, the judge, the, the both, both Polanski team and the, the prosecution made an agreement. Everyone was agreed and then the judge reneged on that agreement. So that's pretty unjust. And there was really nothing Polanski could do. I really don't know what I would have done in that situation. Yeah, and it was, it was almost like, he didn't officially renege it just came through the pipes that he was going to renege right I mean, or the possibility. It came through the pipes that he was going to renege, and he called the lawyers into his office and, and, and both lawyers and laid out exactly how he wanted this to unfold for the benefit of the press. Yeah, he reneged in the first place because he didn't like how the press was betraying him as someone who was quote easy on a celebrity. So, there you go. Oh my God. Yeah, now the Robert Evans fascinating character. Yeah, 74 was one of the best years for paramount pictures. And yet he gets fired a studio head. Right. And so that that always I mean and you, we, you talk about it in a film it was there part of it was that he wanted to be fired me in other words he was obviously better as a producer than it was a studio and he must have enjoyed it a lot more. So was it more of a mutual thing or I mean I should have picked it up but you, I'd love you to talk about that. Yeah, no that was a great that was a great point it should be said just to clarify for people who are watching that Evans was in the nearly unique remarkable position of running a studio, and also producing movies at a studio with fabulous because he could divert the studio's resources to his own pictures. But of course not so fabulous for those who had the resources diverted away from them, like Warren Beatty for instance was not happy that the parallax view was sort of dumped, and felt it was because Evans was putting a lot of emphasis on China town, which there was validity So to answer your question john yeah I mean Evans was of course disappointed because he had reached the height of the summit, but he understood why he was being demoted and of course like you said, he's a producer in his heart anyway he never loved being the businessman. He never loved that he really wanted to be a filmmaker. And he could do that obviously as a producer more effectively than as a studio. But this really was I mean for all these four people these amazing for human beings that you focus on. It was in a sense, they're pinnacle. I mean Polanski made a couple of really really good movies since including the pianist, but Chinatown was special I don't think that Evans had really certainly Evans and town. We're not going to reach that pinnacle in terms of creative excellence again. Well town certainly wasn't Evans of course had produced Godfather one and two. So, but that was before right. Oh yeah we did. Yeah, yeah. And, and Jack would have any number of great performances before this fewer after this because the business would change I think for the worse. And that's part of why I picked this particular movie, not so much because I love the movie, but because I think this moment is the moment at which Hollywood became Chinatown so I really wanted to talk about the metaphor of Chinatown to talk about Hollywood to talk about America, and to talk about what was beautiful before Chinatown, before we became Chinatown, and then what it looked like afterwards. Yeah, wanted to take a snapshot of the last, the last good moment. You talk about Diller, the arrival of Barry Diller and Michael Eiser, the TV guys. Yeah, and then the release of Jaws and how that was distributed and how it was marketed. So that that almost blanket distribution and a tremendous amount of marketing push behind a film versus the sort of the old slow build technique. All of a sudden, they were minting money, and that changed everything forever and it hasn't changed much since has it. No, it hasn't changed much sense and and the problem with this is not the minting of money. We all want Hollywood to make money. And the problem of this is that when all of your, when so much of your budget goes into the marketing and promotion of a movie. It's taken away from the budget that would be spent on the development of the screenplay and the hiring of the various artists who would be making the movie. That affects the art form because this is let's face it a very expensive art form that's part of this beautiful about it. Yeah, that moment when Hollywood realized that it could buy a hit. It then shifted from making trying to make a hit and all into buying a hit. Yeah, and it was all about reducing risk. And you had a lot of people sitting around conferences making decisions who did not know a lot about movies necessarily did not necessarily love movies. The way whatever you may say about the founding studio heads of the old days, they all love they weren't necessarily all terribly well educated but they loved movies and they cared about making a films. They love movies, and they also had respect. They also being for the most part, you know, immigrants or the child of immigrants, really wanting to assimilate into American culture. Yes, they were doing it was by making trying to make art now that isn't to say that they knew what art was. Yeah, but they knew that they wanted to be the ones to make it. Yes, that's exactly right. Um, say done away fascinating character. I gather you didn't talk to her did you know she asked me it was a great, great moment in bad moments. She, she asked me what her participation in the book would be. She wanted a piece of the action. Yeah, she wanted a piece of the action and I had to say, you know, Fay, it's not. It's not we're not really making, you know, the Avengers six. And I don't know how ethical that is. So what could I do. Well, she got along well with Jack but everybody seemed to get along well with Jack but she didn't get along so well with her director what it what was. Can you talk a little bit about what the friction was there. Well, well, no one gets along with Fay done away it should just be that Fay done away is. Easy but I know a lot of people who aren't easy Fay done away is difficult. Yeah, yeah. And it's not her movie to make. Yeah, it's Romans movie to make and Roman has the vision. And when Fay done away doesn't like that vision. She complains. Now, the, the, the threshold, the, the, the, the, I guess the crisis point of this came when Roman reached over and plucked a hair out of Fay done away his head, which was catching the light just plucked a hair. Yeah, he went nuts and, you know, they had to shut down. You know, she called him a tyrant stuff like that. He just over a little hair plucking. Yeah, a little hair plucking. It's not that big a deal. And that was not Romans first resort to try to, you know, fix the situation. He smoothed the hair down. I realize I'm not telling the story in the right order, but he smoothed the hair down. He tried to make it better. It didn't work. And finally he just reached it and he's just plucked it. And she she lost, she lost her mind. Oh my God. You know, one of the things you, you also point out is that the effect that drugs had on both town and Evans and everybody, I mean, the cocaine, the fact, I mean, the cocaine was pretty responsible, well, was partly responsible for really hurting Robert Town's career going forward and wasn't good for his personal life either. Yeah, I, I, I, you know, there, there was a period before cocaine in Hollywood cocaine really started to come in around 70, right after Chinatown, around before 75. But before cocaine, it was a, you know, if there were drugs on set, it would be, it would be marijuana. Right. The great director Hal Ashby was stoned all the time. Yeah. So, you know, that, but it was Coke that got Ashby, you know, he's the perfect example of, while pot may be freewheeling and maybe even good for the work cocaine was definitely not. And that's a, that's not the entire reason why the story is a sad one, but it's a, it's a, it's a major one. But it's the same with town, isn't it? I mean, he got into it in a big way and so did Evans. Yeah. And everyone was sort of surprised that Evans, who was kind of persnickety that it got into it and it just, it kind of hurt him. Evans, Evans loved work and he loved sex and I should say he loves seduction. I think he loves seduction more than he loves sex. But, you know, cocaine does not go with work, with quality work, you know, it goes with panic work, quality work, and it doesn't go with seduction. So it did not suit Evans personality. But of course, by that point, you know, he already had a problem. I wanted to ask about the ending. Every great movie has a great, every truly great movie, every fantastic movie has a great ending. And certainly Chinatown has one of the great endings, in my opinion, of all films. But, but the way of reading your book was obvious that the ending that we ended that they, that they settled on was not the original ending. But they didn't know what the ending was going to be. Can you talk, can you talk about the iterations and the considerations that went into trying to figure out how to finish the picture in terms of an ending? Well, this is a, this is a major question because it gets into, it doesn't just get into storytelling and what the right ending for America was at that point. It gets into the biographies of the people who are debating over which ending is appropriate. And by that I mean town and Polanski and town being more inclined to a romantic vision of the world. And a sort of romantic, bittersweet ending. And Polanski being a survivor of the Holocaust and a survivor of the Manson murders was quite convinced that there's no way that you could tell this kind of a story and have it end all right. And so he and town fought over it. And, and I'm glad Polanski had his way because I also think the metaphor of Chinatown would have been compromised. If there was an ending in which there was some kind of hope or success, you know, Chinatown represents, as town said, the futility of good intentions. So there must be total futility. There must be total annihilation. And that's also what makes this so significant a metaphor in the history of American storytelling because our whole country, the dream is based on agency and hope. And this is futility, which is the opposite of agency and hope. So that would have been wrecked if town had his ending, I think. As I think as we discuss it also Chinatown itself was this challenge for town to figure out how do I bring in Chinatown. How does it become because when you think about it, it's really not very much a big part of the movie until the end, you know, you're not in Chinatown. And Robert Evans, and this is a great story about what Hollywood used to be. Robert Evans didn't understand why this movie was called Chinatown. And in his defense, it is confusing. The original draft of the script had no scene said in Chinatown. It's a joke. Can we at least get some Chinese food in here? So the audience knows that they at least bought a ticket to the right movie. There was no Chinatown was a state of mind in the script. And that's what that was town's point. But the reason that's a significant story is because Robert Evans said okay anyway, even though he didn't understand the script. And even though he didn't have good reason to think that the audience would, he still said okay, because he was betting on talent and his friends. Right, which is the mark of a great producer, frankly. Absolutely. It's really an easy job. It really is an easy job, because all you have to do is just have an incredible amount of courage. And if you have that, it's easy. And you're only only having courage in people who've already been, people who you believe in. So if you can place your bets, like town did, like Evans did, place your bets on the horses you think are going to win, you have a good deal. But that's not the case anymore. No, it's very different. Now it's a very hard job. A very hard job for the exact opposite reason. I did think one thing that was very touching is how Nicholson was so loyal to Evans when he was sort of down and out. Because he really was down and out for a while. Yeah, Nicholson is loyalty Nicholson, Nicholson. Nicholson is there for you. He, you know, he will, and not just as your friend, but you know, he'll, if you need help with the movie, he'll, he'll help write the movie. He'll sit in the cutting room with you. He'll get the movie made by virtue of being in it, you know, if you're his friend and he believes in you. He's kind of the, he comes out pretty, pretty clean in my mind. Oh, he does. And also great sense of humor. That line, my favorite line was when he said to Faye Donaway, I think, and he said, you know, how do you think I feel? This is my first leading man part and I got to wear a god damn bandage for like three quarters of the movie because of his nose. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty egoless gesture. I, I, you know, I think. Well, he wasn't, he didn't, he was beyond just being a leading man. He wasn't Warren Beatty, but he, my God, he was so good. I really think you captured what made him so powerful and so unique as an actor. I wish, I wish to God, we saw more of him. But I love, I love Jack. I did want to just show the audience. If you don't mind my, my, my Jack. This is my Jack. I'm sorry about the reflection, but that's my Jack Nicholson autograph. Obviously, that's Jake Gittis. And I don't know, I'm kind of glad. I know how you feel, Sam. I'm kind of glad that it wasn't a trilogy because this was originally thought of, or it's been said that it was thought of as a trilogy. There was, there was the two jakes, which is not anything that, yeah, but there wasn't the third one. There was going to be three of them, right? Right, right. The third one was going to be called Gittis versus Gittis. And it was going to be about Gittis's divorce and, and no fault divorce in California. And it was going to be, and each one of the three had an element. The first one was about water. The second one was about oil, which they did make. And this one was going to be about the air and it was going to be about smog. You know, it was going to be one of the motifs that runs through this three, three part movie about LA made, made the same number of years. Am I saying this? If Jack aged 12 years in real life, the movie would be set 12 years later. Right. So kind of real time. But there's no story after Chinatown. I mean, it's a lobotomy. There's nothing, there's nothing after annihilation. You know. Yeah. And it's very interesting about Nicholson's relationship with John Houston. And his reverence for John Houston. And then also his, the relationship with Angelica. Are they still, I might have missed this, are they still friends? Angelica and Jack, do they talk or? You know, my research ended at 1975. So we don't know. Yeah, they didn't pay me to find that out. I'm in Bucks, John. I'll make a couple calls. I don't know. We know they were together for a long time. I'm inclined to believe they are because that's the nature of Nicholson is to stay, stay close. Yeah. That's wonderful. All right. Well now I want to open it up to some other questions and I think I know what I need to do. We have a couple right here. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and read this. I bought your book and are just beginning to read it. We would love to know what you discovered during your research that you did not know about the movie and its creators before you started the book. Congratulations. That's from Sharon Swatos. Well, I discovered a lot. The astonishing thing was, was the existence of a fellow by the name of Edward Taylor, who was towns. It was a man town described as his editor, which I think is a fairly euphemistic way to characterize someone who sits in the room every day while you write. I found Edward Taylor's notes, which were pretty extensive. And I didn't know he existed, let alone that I would have the ability to speak with his widow and his daughters and his friends and read some of his own emails about working with Robert. And although he would say I work for Robert, not with Robert, which I also think is a bit of a kindness that he is paying his friend, and they were friends going all the way back to their college days, when Edward Taylor would read all of Robert's English papers. And from there they worked together on Roger Corman movies and on and on and on. So he never got he never got I'm sorry he never got credit right he never wanted credit. He never wanted credit that's that's right he never wanted credit. He never wanted credit to collect his paycheck and Mr town paid him, and, you know, not have to go home with the, the headache that comes with having your name on something. Yeah, he's actually pretty smart guy, or he knew what he wanted and what he didn't want. You got what he wanted. He got what he wanted. There's a million other things. But that was the one that was like, Oh my God. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I never heard of it. I knew Robert town but I did not know Taylor, I did I never heard of him. Okay, here's the next one Sam, please talk about the symbolism of Jack's cut nose and wearing bandage and wearing a bandage for the majority of the film protection from society mask. What are your thoughts on that that's from Lawrence Friedman. No, that's what Polanski says to him when he's when he's getting round kitty cat right you're nosy. And, and what you get for being nosy is, is in the world of Chinatown, you get hit, you know, you don't, you don't, you don't, you know, you don't heal you don't you don't solve the crime you become damaged, you know, it's bad to be nosy you don't want to look in that sense. This is a really edible story, you know, in the sense that that you know the eyes carved out when he learns the truth. Well, when Jack learns the truth, you know, he gets his nose chopped off. It's not a good thing to learn the truth because it damages you. I would just add that that there's a, and you brought this out to that his character Jake is a is a close horse, like style likes to look good. So there was a little bit of a on a more superficial level a little bit of a vanity thing there this is a man who does not like to. It wants to look as best and he does not like being deep basically deformed. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point and it's part of the story of, which is very subtly drawn in this movie of get us starting out being a guy who has got it together and thinks he knows what the world is all about. He's cool. Yeah. He really doesn't know the world, you know, just like all of us and the world we're living in we we thought Nixon was was was as bad as it got we thought that that was knowing the world we thought we had seen evil. You know, yeah, but then we then it gets darker. Yeah. Yeah, that's for something to think about. Okay. From, from Claire Clutty I know her. Sam with your skill as a writer and your knowledge of film and film history. Would you ever write your own screenplay. I have done that. I have done that and it's fun. Screenwriting is fun. Are you shopping it. I've, I've sold it. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. But I like doing books more I like doing books more. Because I'm, I'm, I'm more excited about the era when Hollywood was great, then pushing through a little movie to probably die in the era when Hollywood is not Not is not so great. That is so true. So I will just throw in another question. Not certainly not off topic but what do you think about the the future of movie theaters and watching movies communally. I'm very dubious. You are. I think we're in big trouble and I don't, I actually don't think it's about the movie theater so much as it is about film education. And, and America sense of what is a movie, which in the popular mind has been conflated with television. And, and I heartily believe that these are two totally separate, but related things. Yes, we could define what a movie is, which requires a certain amount of education. Then I think movie theaters would come back, because people would understand that a movie needs to be seen in a movie theater not just for a sentimental reason, you know, but for the same reason you need to see Guernica in in in the flesh, right, to really see it and looking at it on a postcard is not seeing it so that missing pieces education it and and how in the midst of what's happening in the world that someone is going to hold up their hand and say excuse me we need to, you know, we need to talk about David lean. I just don't we have bigger fish to fry. But also the communal experience. I always talk about this. It's one thing for me to see a great film on my own but when I'm seeing it in a room full of people, all experiencing at the same time that is magic. That is going to be lost. And I am a little more optimistic than you are Sam I think that that I think there'll be fewer movie theaters but I think they will survive. But oh my god I want to get you to Bedford to see Chinatown or the movie of your the old movie of your choice on the big screen with a crowd, because it's a it's a different experience than seeing it on your, you know, on your screen at home. And it is it is something that that makes me that makes me very sad so what's your next book Sam was what are you thinking about what are you contemplating. I'm writing a book about the history of zoetrope Francis Ford Coppola's great production company, which I think of as the greatest undertaking in in the history of American independent film. And I, I, I almost like a fairy tale that story and Francis has said yes and so I'm getting his help on it and that's so exciting and gratifying and Wow, and watching all these movies again I mean, we talk about a movie on the big screen, you cannot apocalypse now. You, if you don't feel that five channel and feel it in your body. I mean those helicopters. Yeah, you feel it in your body it is not just in your ears. That is an immersive physical experience. And you cannot, you cannot, you simply cannot have that. Yeah, at home. It's like watching watching that or Lawrence of Arabia on your iPhone. No, no, no, no, no, no, you can't do that. Right. That's wrong. Well and what makes Francis so one of the things that makes Francis so heroic is that of course he put, you know, millions of his own dollars into this and that's something that no director has ever put so much of their own money gambled their livelihood. You know, it makes me wonder, where's Lucas now that you know movies are in danger where's where Spielberg now that movies are in danger where are these. I mean Scorsese is doing his part with his film foundation but I don't know where where where are those guys. Yeah, you think about the feature film. What I say to my my young people they're not that young they're in their late 20s early 30s. But I say to them, if you watch 10 feature films you have 10 different stories 10 different experiences. If you watch a Netflix series is fantastic and I watch Netflix series to you're taking the same amount of time and it's telling you one story. It's a longer story. It's longer formats can be fantastic but love the feature film because they're contained stories and for the same amount of time, you could experience so much more variety and and walk in different shoes and all those different things. So I directed your favorite episode of Netflix television. It's very hard to know. I mean, I don't know, you know, it doesn't. In other words, it doesn't matter who the director is in television. Yeah, we can all name the directors of our favorite movies, but the directors of our favorite television is it doesn't matter and and if you believe as I do that the director makes the art form. And that tells you right there. That something is seriously wrong in in in television. I will the other thing that I lament is the sense of history. I mean, I really have worked hard with my own children, again, they're older to teach them to say listen, you don't, you know, don't say I will never watch a black and white movie. I will never watch a black and white movie. Are you kidding me? You have to watch black or a movie. There's certain black. You have kids say that young people say send them to me. I will believe sending them because it is it's an issue and you really have to push to get them to watch certain things and expose them early for them to have any sense of the history of moviemaking. I mean, it's one of the proudest achievements in America, the last 100 years of moviemaking. I agree with you. And if people if they're not even aware of it or say no, I won't, you know, I'm not going to watch anything before before 1980. You're you're you're missing a lot, particularly comedies I have to say the great comedies many of the greatest comedies were made earlier on, in my opinion, my humble opinion. So I'm going to see now whether we have some more questions. Here we go. Okay, hold on just a second. Please articulate more fully how the film is representative of complete annihilation. Is it simply that evil always wins out. Yes. I mean corruption, you can't fight city hall is what this movie is about. Yeah. Yeah, that that that makes sense to me. Okay, on the topic of zoetro. Can you discuss any relationship between Chinatown and Godfather one and two. Well, they're both made it, they're all made a paramount all under Robert Evans sound stages right across from each other. Period pictures, the period pictures. Yeah, but I mean it goes to show you, it goes to show you that this was that that we're not being sentimental, or nostalgic, or curmudgeonly, or elitist to say that there used to be a Hollywood. I was just talking about Godfather one, Godfather two and Chinatown, just three of the movies to come out of paramount in a, you know, few year period. These are not esoteric works of art these are popular works of art made in a studio in in Hollywood. So what they have in common is that they're paramount movies. Which is an important point. Yeah. The conversation was that that wasn't paramount was it. It was paramount it was part of a deal that paramount struck with what was called the director's company, which was a partnership between Coppola, Friedkin, and Bogdanovich. And they didn't really work out did it. Well, it didn't really. Well, I don't know, depends on what you mean by work out because it did give us Paper Moon. Yes, give us a conversation. Yeah. And it gave us Daisy Miller, which I don't think really works but I think the fact that it exists means that the studio was working. Yeah, yeah. It's just what I meant by that was, it was one of those lovely utopian ideas that would that you can look back and say, Oh that never could have lasted. Because it's such a lovely idea. Let's see these brilliant people were going to give you limited budgets but you have complete creative control. Well, that that that's not so that wasn't so unusual, you know, in in in a period of Hollywood. It was just it was just never. It was just never stated as such, you know, well they gave it to Orson Welles and then they said we'll never do that again. That's another time that's another time but you know in in in the you know when Arthur Fried was producing at MGM. There was no reasonable expense spared. You know, all the great producers, all the great producers know that Sam Sam Spiegel, you know they all, they all would not they all would work the way the director's company worked. Yeah. And in fact the reason it went down is because Friedkin never made his movie. And because it was a based on a profit sharing model, the two other guys said, Billy, you know, you're taking our money. So the damage wasn't between the studio and the filmmakers it was amongst the filmmakers themselves. Friedkin have a project that he wanted to make or I missed that bit. I don't know how far he got. I'm sure he did but he never. He never made a movie for the director's company. Yeah. I mean, you know, French connection I think is one of the greatest movies ever made. I mean, exorcist is pretty good too so he made some good made some good pictures. Okay, here we go from Vincent LaRusso this do you have a favorite movie Sam and if so did that help you in the writing of books. I have a lot of favorite movies. It helps me in the writing of books. Nothing helps you in the writing of books. Nothing. No, but I have a I have. I have favorite directors, you know, I have I can list favorite directors easier than I could favorite movies. Billy Wilder is a favorite director looking at my job right now. Howard Hawks, John Cassavetes. Paulansky. Bob Fosse. No love for John. Lubitsch. Lubitsch. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no John Ford I don't respond to emotionally I don't understand. I don't understand John Ford so it's hard to get that excited about. What about George Cucor. I didn't put him up there with the other with the other ones. Yeah, I'm always happy to be in his company. Yeah, Preston Sturgis. Yeah, a great time. He doesn't transcend like like the other ones. Sturgis movie, you know, I know this is sacrilege. I don't think that they are very, I think that they're fun, but you know, not so mature. Well, they're certainly not mature. Yeah, I don't think they're they're intended to be mature. When we talk about Billy Wilder, my movie is yeah, my movie is the apartment. That movie breaks my heart and I will tell you something I've always been amazed that people refer to as a comedy. I don't see the apartment as a comedy at all as comedic moments or elements, but it is a very serious drama really. It's a romance drama with with funny with funny moments. Yeah, with funny moments with a nebish. Yeah, we showed at the Bedford Playhouse in a 4k digital prints. And it looked really good. And again, and I'll tell you the, the, you know how when you see these great movies again and again and again you see new things. Yes, Robert Altman said that to me he said you always get better to see a great movie again than an average one the first time. Because even though you've seen it before you see always see something new. What I saw the last time was that Shirley McClain. Oh my, I've always been here, but that boy was she good in that movie. You want to see great Shirley McClain see some came running by Minnelli with. Oh, very good. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shot to beautifully shot and a great performance from Dean Martin. Great. Yeah. Those are the movies we got to celebrate there's no question about it. John, if you don't mind jumping in, we have a question that was submitted by email. So can I read this to you. Oh, yes, go ahead, Dan. Okay, so this person actually there's two very quick questions that were submitted by email a couple minutes ago. The first one is, is there any significance to Polanski being the one who cuts Jack's nose. And then the second question is, can you talk about the casting of John Houston. He seems so perfect in the role was anyone else ever considered for it. Yes. Now, I, I don't think seriously. I think it was pretty much Houston all the way. And the slitting of Roman slitting Jack's nose. That was just an opportunity for Roman to terrorize Jack, which they had a good time doing. Jack was a little nervous. Yes, he was very nervous because Roman had to invent that prop that that switchblade, and it was hinged on one side. And Roman went in and nicked him with the other side it wouldn't give and could therefore really cut Jack's nose and Roman would torture him. Well, that's the there's no significance no story significance. It was just two friends. You know, needling each other. Very good, Polanski really when you see me sort of Polanski is an actor Polanski isn't is an actor, you know, I mean, what an amazing you know people think, you know if he if he were just a director he'd be a giant but he was an actor and a fabulous writer. Yeah, great, great screenwriter. I didn't know until your book, Sam I didn't know how much of that script was was Roman Polanski's. He was amazing well and I always remember. Those of you out there if you want to see Roman Polanski's first feature knife in the water is still an amazing film. I saw it a couple of years ago again. It says triangle on a boat and, you know, lots of foreboding. He was a genius, without any question, it still is. Yeah, he really is he's still a genius. And I hear his new film is one of his best is one of his best movies I haven't seen it of course it doesn't have a release here but people who I know have seen it say it's one of his best movies. I was talking to people who say they're they're trying to work on it but I don't know it's about it's about the Dreyfus affair. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Well, we will hope so. I'm trying to see if there's anything else I've got here. I think we've I think we've covered everything. Now we can go back and look at real life and all the amazing things that are happening in our world right now out there in Chinatown. It's almost as dramatic as Chinatown. I was about to say that. Well, Sam, I want to thank you. It's been so delightful meeting you and and you and I are going to are going to stay in touch if you don't mind. Because we love the same things and I get out to LA and I'm sure you get to New York every now and again. I do. So it's wonderful. Thank you for this great book and ladies and gentlemen really do do do read all his stuff. I mean, they're all they're all great. They really are all great but the big goodbye is absolutely fabulous. I also really love Fifth Avenue 5am Darling Audrey Hepburn and Blake Edwards and all those. I mean that that movie which we also showed at the Playhouse and everyone's crying and the Henry Mancini score. I mean, it's all, you know, it's amazing. So thank you for celebrating it. And thank you for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it. Thank you for bringing people together. Absolutely. Okay, Sam, we'll be in touch. Hi everyone. Thanks everybody. Hi. Good night. Good night. Good night.