 Good evening and welcome to episode 11 of the private property podcast. I'm your host Zaman Dunga Kumalu and on day 28 of the national lockdown and on this evening's episode I'm joined by Grant Gavin who's the owner of Remax Panache a speaker and a business coach And we'll be talking about you know some of the costs that goes that that are involved in Selling your home So yesterday we're speaking about how to increase the value of your property in the event where you wanted to And today we'll be discussing some of the costs and some of them aren't just financial They are various costs involved and that perhaps many people would not know of I know I certainly learned quite a few when I was Speaking to Grant a bit earlier grant. Thank you so much for joining us this evening As I went to grow and asked to be here. Hello everybody And I'll still distraction before our president addresses the nation again I know I think all of us are anticipating that address this evening And and most likely more likely than not we'll probably get another extension I mean if we've been looking at some of the figures from the health minister more likely to receive another Extension in our lockdown. So it's going to be interesting to hear what the president's update is going to be But before that, I think let's do a little bit of property grants I mean I was saying that we're going to be talking about some of the costs Of course the biggest one is very likely the the agents commission Touched on it slightly in the episode 10 of the private property podcast But I want us to actually look a little bit into the agent commission that goes into that Cost when selling of all Yeah, I mean very simplistically We always say the buyer is responsible for his transfer costs and his transfer duty costs when he purchases and the seller's main Cost is commission as agents commission, but as we were talking about offline, you know Seller has choices and has options and a seller can elect will choose to sell his or her house on their own in which case They avoid commission or they can choose to use an agency and then there is a charge for commission and somewhere in the middle Now we have these Harvard real estate agency. So, you know, I said right now today has so many different options And basically that's gonna make a decision Do I want professional assistance or do I want to do it on my own? And then, you know, the cost is relative because it's not just my price Value that you get as well And maybe let's speak a little bit about that value right because I think different as we say, I mean They're different agencies that work differently. They're now hybrid models some offer like relatively low percentage relative to others But of course there's value that you would get from for example using an agent in selling your home What's part of that value package that as a seller you'd probably get that as a seller You would not get if you don't opt to use an agent You know, look, I think you know, we sit from the agency perspective and you know People are predictable human beings are predictable and we watch people who list their homes privately and you know I'm a big believer of choice and power of choice and it's anybody's choice to sell their home and any which way they would like But we know what's gonna happen when people put their homes on the market and we know the patterns of human behavior of what happens And we can see the pain points that are gonna come in that sequence of events You know right from the beginning but having said that, you know, if you're gonna be employing an agent or an agency and you're gonna be paying them a Profession fee, I think it's advisable on every seller shoulders is to sit down and question that agent How are you gonna bring me value during this transaction? Most importantly, how are you gonna guard me on what's happening in the market right now? You know, are you a local market expert and It's the top producing agents in any area who are selling multiple properties who know the market better than anybody else But also more than that. How are you gonna bring me buyers? What is your marketing strategy? How do you market yourself? You know, what is your network of buyers who you're gonna tap into you? How are you gonna bring buyers to my property and how you're gonna assist me get the highest possible price in the shortest amount of time? So there's a whole range of questions that a seller can can ask an agent and And my advice to any seller is to question any prospective agent or agency on those points that I've mentioned there You know surprisingly grant, you know as you are mentioning some of these questions It's questions that I that would have not occurred to me. I think as people are probably sitting at home We wouldn't even know what questions to ask a potential Agent because chances are some people go with the first person that they come across As opposed to also actually shopping around and interviewing the very different agents to see if they're the right fit So when you think about it from this, I mean if you interviewed an agent and you said to the agent Where are your buyers gonna come from and they said I'm gonna list your home on private property And that was the only thing they said to you Where's the differentiation there between agent a b c d or me as a seller listing it on private property myself You know, so the question that you need to ask the agent in terms of what is your marketing strategy How are you different to any other agents in the market and how are you different to me doing this myself? And that's what every seller should be asking And and and I hope that that's actually insightful, you know information for viewers at home I I've so I've never had to sell a property. I've been buying So far and and so the selling Processes quite quite new in many ways for me I've only had conversations with different people and often a lot of people in my circles are in the property circle So they're more likely than not going to know an agent who would More likely than not also just refer them to an area specialist So they're guaranteed to be working with the right person for that particular area I'm probably understand that this is the person who understands my area who bring the report around the sales in the area So even when you're setting a price you not overpricing your property But you're also not undercutting yourself and I think as a prospective seller It's so important that we understand it and see it from the other side that this is a service where value is given And you can opt to do it for yourself But this is what you're not going to get because the reality is for the most part we we're not experts in this So getting professional help does actually come in quite handy And and every you know, not every seller is selling a home every year So, you know, typically most sellers are selling their home in any way between five to 17 years You know, who knows what it's going to be like in our new economy now after that Um, but that is the number one most important aspect of selling a home We are not going to pitch this home to the market What price am I going to put it on it and is that price going to attract buyers in in the given current market conditions? and With all due respect to any seller It's it's very very difficult to sit there and pick up the sunday paper or go on to private property And look at the prices of all the properties that are listed and think that you can compare your homes to those And then set a price that's going to attract buyers to start, you know, coming through your home and putting putting pen to paper And it's it's the quite often the buyers On the other end of the spectrum who know value before mr. And this is seller because the buyers, you know, when your home's listed on the market Those buyers have already been looking for two to three weeks. They've probably run through two to five to 10 different homes They're really getting a really good understanding of what represents value in the current market So if your home gets listed on the market above market value, those buyers are very smart They're very well educated now and they'll stay away from something that's overcast So buyers just as much as agents understand what value represents In any given market And I think, you know, if you look at shows just like this one and even when you go on private property.co.ca We have various resources that are now more than ever empowering You know buyers in helping them make the right decision on their home ownership journey So the times of you know setting a price and thinking people are just going to go for their price Are not going to negotiate it down. I essentially gone So if you're a seller, those are some of the things that you essentially need to think about Now given one of the things before we get to the stuff that costs rands in the sense One of the things that you actually mentioned When we're speaking offline was also the opportunity cost of the property being on the market for too long Can you just take us through that particular cost? You know what I was referring to there It doesn't just have Sorry, it doesn't have to just occur to somebody who is distressed or a seller is distressed Any seller that chooses to List their home by themselves and try and sell their home by themselves to save money If they don't get it right from the beginning and their home stays on the market for three to six months longer They would have taken if they used the services of a professional person There's the opportunity cost of that home being on the market And the biggest opportunity cost there is that the eventual selling price Will be lower the longer that home stays on the market Any property that stays on the market for a prolonged period of time And we've got statistics in our office to prove this that the eventual asking price as a percentage of the original listing price Is lower the longer the home stays on the market. It becomes stale And it becomes almost like a stigmatized property where people stay away from it Oh, there must be something wrong with that property. So then there's a cost of not just the reduced eventual purchase price that you achieve But there's also the cost of holding that property for a much longer period of time And I make reference to people who could be in distress You know, they might make a decision to to go for the cheapest alternative of selling their home Which is to do it themselves. But if you get it wrong You're going to be going to an agency six months down the line Who will then start the process at the correct price and with the correct marketing strategies And this prolonged period of time actually ends up costing people and it's painful for us to see because we know Particularly people in distress They're trying to hang on for a higher price because of what they need to get themselves out of trouble But what ends up happening is their price the property too high it stays on for too long And end up carrying the cost of their property for a lot longer as well And if anything, I mean, I I know with some of the properties that I've bought Is that the moment I can see that our properties being on the market for too long I already use that when I negotiate because I can say but this actually has a move for A number of months and one of the questions I'll probably ask myself is a is there something wrong with it b Is it overpriced and if it's overpriced and it's still not moving Then I know that I can go in on a law offer and if you see I mean I've seen certain properties being on the market for over a year And and by that time the the seller is willing to pretty much take any offer Because it stayed on the market for longer than what they anticipated And it's easy to even get sometimes even up to 40 50 less than what they were asking for And I think we're now getting to a point where a lot of sellers a lot of buyers We're already thinking on that level. We literally look at when did you list this and if you're interested in an error I mean I have alerts on the different areas that I'm interested in so I'm able to see that actually your property Was on you first try to sell it by yourself and now you've given it to this agent And now you've changed agents because times as I as a seller you probably didn't want to go You don't want to listen to the agent in terms of the pricing And now you go to another one and it's still priced incorrectly So by the time you go to the third person who advises you to let go Let's say it's 40,000 and less I know I can still low ball like I can still put in a law offer because it's been sitting On such a badly priced You know price point that it's easy for me to say but you've been hanging on to this for over 12 months If you're really serious here's the offer So I always I used to do seller educational workshops and I do buyers educational workshops And one of the stories I used to tell the seller because it's very hard for a real estate person to speak to us A seller about pricing because I always think we're trying to keep their price down But what we're trying to do is price it realistically to attract demand from buyers So I use a story of walking into a bakery I don't know if you've ever walked into a bakery early in the morning When I lived in London, there was an amazing bakery called Greg's Bakery We walked past and you could smell the fresh croissants in the morning So those fresh croissants come out there maybe one pound of croissants and they smell really really fresh And you just want to go in and bar that croissant because it's just smelling so good Come back at lunchtime and that smells now gone And now he's made his fresh sandwiches for lunchtime and it's the sandwiches that are smelling good So you can't continue to sell the fresh croissant for one pound now He's got to bring the price down to 50p and hope somebody marries it When they're competing now with the sandwiches We'll pass that baker in the evening When maybe they've got other sorts of things out there or the croissants are now so stale You're not going to sell them for 50p and eventually at the end of the day He's giving them away or he's throwing them out And it's the same thing as your you know, your house just goes stale if it stays on the market for longer And the consumer is very aware of it And that is very true if you've just joined in you're of course tuned into the private property podcast I'm your host is amandonga kumal and today we're talking about some of the costs involved in selling your home and joining me for our conversation Is grant Gavin who is the owner of free max panache is a speaker and also a business coach We're of course taking some of your comments or questions If you're watching us from home and if you'd like us to address some of them Do send them through and grant and I will go through them We've got a comment here coming in from Cleveland Gormo who asks We are dealing with an educated market currently in terms of buyers The fair wear and tear and condition of the property plays a very good role in getting the required value of the property Which is exactly what we're saying grant and another one here from Desiree Ranoco This one is a question and she asks can a seller still negotiate the commission fee even after signing the market agreement contract So when you say the market agreement, I'm talking you're talking about the sole mandate agreement or the right to listen The mandate agreement between the owner and the agent Strictly speaking it's a legal document and if it's agreed between a seller and an agent at the beginning of the agreement for the contract That we will sell your house for four percent or five percent. It is a contracted agreement So strictly speaking it's cost and stone Is anything allows negotiable? Absolutely And now you know granted actually like us then to go through some of the more rands in sense Issues in terms or items that a seller or prospective seller needs to be mindful of beyond the the What is this the agents commission that we're speaking about earlier? And of course one of them is the the rates and taxes clearance certificates I mean some people probably might not be aware of it. Can you just take us through that a little bit? Yeah, I think it's really pertinent. So obviously you've got to be up to date with your rates and taxes for a property to be registered or transferred So if there's unpaid rates and taxes and again, I refer specifically to people who've fallen behind Those have to be caught up to date They have to be paid up to date before you get a rates clearance certificate When it comes to buying in sectional title schemes and selling your property in sectional title schemes they're going to ask you for about three months of sectional title Ladies in the complex and they're going to take that up front Just so that there's a there's a whole timing factor and then they sort of tally it up at the end and they'll reimburse if it's been overpaid or underpaid So I think more pertinently right now is that people are falling behind on their rates and taxes They have to understand that if they want to sell their property They have to catch up with those costs because the municipality will not issue a rates clearance certificate And I think the the big thing to note with that one. I can't remember which which year Where the legislation changed where I mean, I know previously you would buy a property and the the The municipality amount would then fall on the new buyer But now of course legislation has changed where that sticks with the seller and As a buyer you essentially get it at zero and a new account has started with you because that you see quite a big pressure point Where people would buy properties and they weren't aware that all this money essentially accumulated and you buy a property only to discover that You know, they're in areas 50 80 100,000 rands. So now that's actually not possible So as a seller you essentially need to make sure and this grant is saying that not only are you paid up Or that not only do you keep up with the payments, but that you also paid up and of course then the other Costs grant and without even having to get a sense of how much it is an actual rents and cents But the other costs are some of the compliance certificates that go into When you have to sell your place Yeah, so by law you've got to get something like an electrical compliance certificate Provences you have to get planning certificates You have to get a entomologist report and those costs are all for the for the seller's account Of course, it's not just the cost of the certificate, which is in some instances mostly, you know, quite a reasonable cost But I'll never forget once I used to buy and sell and flip properties and I bought a property On the barrier in the morning. So it was a very very old property and I bought it from a Deceased estate from a lady who had literally lived there for 60 or 70 years And she had never changed the electrical wiring from the old English uk standard I got the shock of my life, you know, it wasn't just about the inspection It was the fact that the electrician went in and said we have to rewire this entire flat It was about 14 15 000 rand that I've not accounted for So wherever there's repairs that need to be done, you have to repair the electrics to put it into foot working order for the next buyer For that for that electrician to sign off that certificate. So it's not just the certificate It's the electrical repairs that might come with that as well Yeah, I would imagine it's the same for the plumbing certificate We don't have that in KZN, but I know some provinces do have plumbing certificates that are required I think I actually I haven't had to have I haven't encountered needing a plumbing certificate But I know that it's certainly in certain areas. It's certainly something that you must account for I think even a gas certificate Um, it might be one of the items. Yeah, that you essentially need to have The one of your your um Comments earlier actually made a very valid point about the wear and tear So as a seller one of the costs and of maintenance is keeping your property in good condition You know, if you haven't painted your house for years or if you've allowed your electrics to deteriorate Or you haven't kept the garden in in good neck That's all going to impact on your price and ultimately the net proceeds that you're going to get from the sale If you're not putting money into electrical repairs But if you allow your your property to deteriorate in terms of physical maintenance That's going to massively impact the price that you are are going to get from a potential purchaser And I think then that also just speaks to As a as as an owner of a property, whether it's your primary residence or you've got You know rental properties just the importance of keeping sure that the property Kept the property that you're staying in but some some owners of Especially rental properties tend to then not take care of their rental properties Sometimes don't actually go and physically see how they look like they just let the agent be the one who does it for them But understanding the state of your rental property. Yes, it might be making you money right now Perhaps some years down the line. You might want to sell it. It's so important to then understand how that place looks like um at a very like regular level because Suppose then a couple of years later You actually want to offload that particular asset and you find that it's actually been worn out quite significantly And you might possibly not even get the price that you want for it And a lot of a lot of people a lot of homeowners underestimate That that is quite a significant cost and I'll say significant in terms of the value that you're going to get when you sell it one day You know, we always think of what about costs when i'm buying a property I've got to be able to afford my bond pay my rates pay my taxes pay my levies Whatever costs are associated with that but we forget that you know every sort of three to five years You're probably going to have to paint that house You have to paint the roof you have to clean the gutters You have to maintain the garden and if you don't It's only going to deteriorate over time and it gets to a point where by the time it comes to catch up on all that It becomes quite a costly expense It's a massive repair work, you know So it's it's quite a good idea to factor in those costs When you buy a property as well. I know we're talking about sellers now, but buying a home Is also entails maintaining that property and keeping it in good condition And it's definitely an episode that will touch on I think the the costs associated with home ownership Is something that people tend to underestimate quite significantly like you're saying I think even when Somebody's doing their budget for when or how their finances are going to look like after they've bought a place They often only account for example for the bond payment Some people don't even know that they have to account for example for the levies Perhaps insurance might be in the mix and the other associated costs So I think that's certainly an episode that we we need to have because you need to be going into home ownership understanding the different layers of home ownership and the different items that you essentially be paying for as you You know own your new property We've got another question here grants that's coming in this time from Lena Davis who asks if you are restructuring Would you also need to settle rates and taxes? By restructuring getting a new bond on the property I would assume it's restructuring is probably your your assets um Yeah, so probably a new bond or maybe when you're extending your finance Um, I think Lena if you're able to just outline for us what exactly mean by restructuring because they're different Things that you can restructure so you can restructure your actual I would imagine she's referring to refinancing her home. Um, yeah That's anything I can imagine You know, I think if you if you're on It's when you come to sell you need the rates clearance certificate. I'm not familiar You don't probably ask a bond finance person if they're refinancing a property. Do they need to see that rates and taxes are up to date I'm not entirely certain. I'm not going to give an answer. I don't know Okay, so I think in the event where you do mean refinancing or restructuring the portfolio Um, we'll be sure to get in our restructuring guide did say the last time we had a conversation I think we had yaku And there was quite a lot of questions around restructuring and how do we structure our property? In order for us to be getting maximum value for it and we did promise that we'll be covering You know, we'll have an episode around restructuring and structuring our property portfolios in the most efficient way So we'll definitely add that question When we have our next expert who will help us with that particular topic We've got another question here grant from cleavon gormo who asks How long are the certificates valid for and what recourse does one have in the event of any faults during the validity of the certificates? Who takes care of those costs? So you're talking about the electrical compliance certificates now That's that can cause such an issue in a real estate transaction particularly where sellers are choosing their friends and people that they know to come in and do Electrical compliance certificates and we've you know, we've had We've had so many instances unfortunately where a buyer has moved in there's a certificate But they'll go into the roof and there'll be a problem You know, then the owners is on that person who provided that certificates to prove the work that they did was was valid And it now becomes a legal issue between the new seller And you know going off person whose certificates was placed into the file the attorney's file It's a very difficult one. Look, it doesn't happen a lot a lot We've had a fair amount of instances of that over many many years But you know, it does become a challenge and particularly I always say to sellers It's hard to recommend and refer because you don't want to recommend and refer and somebody lets down But there is a panel of electrical compliance certificates or electricians Interologists that an estate agency will use time and time again. I always say to homeowners I would go with the recommendation of an estate agent because it is somebody that they deal with And they're reputable and there's always more come back with somebody who you have a longstanding relationship with It's very very difficult if you get your friends to suddenly just come in and because he's qualified and he puts together a certificate That leads to all sorts of challenges for all parties concerned. So, you know, the recommendation there is to use a reputable and a Electrical compliance company or an entomologist company that the estate agency deals with time and time again And you know, grand surprisingly one of the things that I've also found especially when buying up Rental properties is that sometimes you're able to get creative in some of the clauses that you put in the offer to purchase So for example, I mean I've seen certain buyers say that they'd like to Choose the electrical the company that does the electrical work in order to ensure that it's done Properly because we we we know of instances where sometimes a seller will You know pay their friend to do a certificate knowing very well that their their electrical work isn't actually up to date And sometimes we've seen sellers saying that they'd like to use their preferred Transferring attorneys. So there are different ways It's particularly your property investors have been able to navigate the offer to a purchase But like you're saying, I think more often than not very reputable estate agents would typically recommend A few companies that they they're used to working with and one would trust that especially that company is also reputable themselves That the work that's been that's been done is actually up to standard Comes down to relationships. So, you know, if you have a work a good working solid relationship with a reputable company Now when something goes wrong There's a vested interest from both parties to make it right Yeah, it's a once-off operation with a once-off transaction with a once-off supplier So much more difficult, you know, trying to get to the bottom of any resolve something because the flower bar not a type personality will just Flower bar not So I agree with your comments there. It's always better to use somebody where there's a good relationship with the estate agency and that particular company So Lena did come back to us. She was she was actually talking about refinancing So, you know, we'll definitely bring in an expert who will be helping us navigate When we restructure our portfolios when we refinance our portfolios What the what the effects of that are who are the different sort of stakeholders? You need to be notifying because I know you need to be having a conversation with your bank. How do you best structure that? So we'll definitely be covering that in our future episodes Of course, another cost grant is the bond cancellation fee in the event where the property that you're selling is responded Yes, a lot of people realize this is that when you cancel the bond sometimes you have a 90 day cancellation clause So it's better to put the notice in with your bank as soon as possible. So when you It's something that should be brought up by the estate agents as well as, you know Do you have a cancellation clause on your bond? Let's put in the notice now Let's let the bank know now. So at least we don't get a surprise When we sell the property and we've now got to pay three extra monthly payments on our bond Whatever the notice period may be So that is something that a lot of homeowners don't don't understand is that they may may not be a cancellation clause on your bond Okay, then the last one grant is the capital gains tax and I and we won't get too much into this one because can be quite technical Um, and I think that also needs its own experts, you know to kind of break it down for us But if you can just briefly go through capital gains tax as something that as a seller You need to be mindful of In the event where you're selling your property No capital gains tax is just a minefield of Loopholes and and various tactics and we actually had somebody come into our office and I was speaking to you or About this the best thing you can do with regards to any strategy towards capital gains tax Is to find an accountant or somebody who knows how to how to Understands the the entirety of that law No, it's your single primary residence. It's not as serious But you know, there are ways that you can bring your capital Tax down and your capital gains tax down you need to and again, this is what we're talking about right from the beginning Pay a professional person to do a good job for you and you will save way more money in the long run Pay a professional to sit with you and work out how you can reduce your capital gains tax Because there are so many ways that you can reduce capital gains tax that I didn't realize till I said in this training session, but Not many real estate agents are going to sit with you and explain to you how to reduce capital gains tax So my advice and that is to go and find The best financial person that you can and he or she will take you through the best route and then capital gains tax and grant before I let you go any tips that you'd have for any Sellers who are looking into selling their properties in the coming weeks or coming months Yeah, we're going into very very interesting times and we were chatting earlier just about we do not know First and foremost how the market's going to react when we all get released on parole and we come back out of our houses And we all flood back into the market. We value properties professional property Practitioners we value properties based on current sales and there have been zero sales pretty much over the over the month of April So we will only know how the market has been impacted because we start running buyers through homes again and we start taking office and you know We don't even know whether there's going to be a flood of homes coming onto the market after lockdown The indications are that you know, we really were in a buyers market before we went into lockdown If more people are going to be in distress if the economy is hurting The the indications there was that more stock will come onto the market Will become into after the lockdown period and that has implications on the market But how this market reacts is from me. It's really exciting now because it's it's going to be unknown territory You've got interest rates at almost historic lows. You've got two massive decreases in the last month So there is the potential for buyers to come out there and say it's an amazing time to bar But then the reality is is that you know, so many people could have lost their jobs over the last Or had salary reductions over the last month So how the buyer is going to react and we will only know when we step foot back into the marketplace And that's why I think now more than ever It's going to be so important to have a professional On your side who knows the market can read the market and will react to it as quickly as possible Because then we can adjust things like pricing strategies. We can get the home sold in the shortest possible time But it's yeah, I'm saying it's exciting and I don't mean to sound disrespectful It's just exciting because I don't know about you. I've never lived through a global pandemic before So this is the first time for all of us But you want to just know that you've got an expert who knows the local market And who will pick up the signs pick up the changes very very quickly and will be there to guide you and advise you along the way We've got two last Questions for from our listeners at home grant that I actually want us to To address the one is from Yolande paper who asks are all the bank banks notice period 90 days or does or do bank stiffer I think you need to check with your bank Yeah, because from what I know not all of them are necessarily the same But you do need to check With your respective bank the banks that I bank with I know a lot of them you you have to put in that 90 day notice Um, but it is I think the advice here is just be aware of it And you go and look into it and get the advice from your bank and find out exactly what yours is Yeah, and this last one uh grant I don't know if you you'd be able to to assist but it's definitely something from the cell from the buyer side and we'll if we can't You know properly answer it this evening will definitely Slotted in when we speak about you know the cost associated when you're a buyer and this one says This is coming from the buyer side. What do I get the buyers? Or what what do I get the buyer's costs when I had included all my costs as a buyer In my bank loan or mortgage amount. I never got the lawyer's cost breakdown And I have tried to contact the lawyer with no avail. What resources might I have? So what I'm understanding there is he's he's had a whole lot of costs lumped up into his bond And he hasn't seen the breakdown from it So who was now I've gone found out who the convincing attorney was as my first point of call And I've asked for a breakdown of costs although it sounds like he said he's done that Which means he's not getting professional legal advice that he's asked for I'm not a lawyer. There is a law society I would just keep asking the question I've got back to those people because in every property transaction that I've ever transacted and I've had a complete breakdown In the form of an invoice from an attorney, which has shown me Step by step everything that I've paid for and everything that's gone towards the purchase of that property And and I think to add that it's actually quite I mean your credit grant with when I look at all the properties I've bought you If you and especially if they are bonded the bond registration attorney as well as the transferring attorney Send you an invoice with literally line items down to like amps. It's 20 rands and every single item So if the amount let's say comes to 20 or 30,000 rand They can account for each cent Down to the last total so in the middle you're not winning with the with the lawyer I mean you've probably if it's a bonded property, you've got the bond registration attorneys as well as the transferring attorney So it would be interesting to know which one of the two is you're not getting joy from But also then speak to the bank because if they said they've lumped it up in the with the bank Ask the bank for that breakdown because I know when when their account has just been opened You'll see what the different costs are so you'll be able to at the very least get that breakdown From the bank itself, you know, this is why I'm something like buyer education is so important And I said to you earlier I did the seller's education and I used to do the buyer's education and for me the buyer's education Sessions that I did were so much more valuable Because we have such a large majority of our population who have never bought a home before And even with the private property property shop spoken to two of them where I do my first time buyer Presentation and the questions that I get afterwards. It's amazing people come up to me and they're asking me I don't say that they're basic questions But they're asking me basic legal questions and generally coming from a place where they've been hard done by where somebody's been unscrupulous Or has misguided them in the process So I do believe if you do any shows one of the most powerful shows you can do is on educating buyers on all these types of questions so that they are prepared And grant is definitely topics that will be exploring right here on the private property Podcast and it's probably the reason why we do the show because we understand that we now more than ever We need our buyers to to be empowered to know You know what is out there and that your property journey doesn't have to be one that is difficult Where you lose out on money or where you don't where you're not able to be empowered enough to write ask the right questions When you're buying your respective properties. So grant. Thank you so much for joining me this evening I see that the presidency has Finally announced that the president is going to be speaking to us at office eight So we're all going to be waiting to hear what president Ramacosa will be saying Thank you very much at home for tuning into the property to the private property podcast I've been your host is a man. Don't I hope you're staying at home and you're staying safe until tomorrow evening Remember tomorrow evening. Well, we'll be having a representative from Apsa for our first ever ask private property So if you have any questions that you'd like answered from a bank's perspective So if you ever wanted to ask the bank a question around your home journey and your home Loan application journey do send in those questions and we'll be sure to answer them tomorrow evening. Thank you very much and good night Thank you very much grant