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But right now, if you go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and use the code spring break, you get 50% off all of them. So go check them out and enjoy the show. Awesome. Dude, I got a call from my old, my first mentor. You guys know Don, I told you guys about Don. Yeah, he met him. So did you guys meet Don? Yeah, we went over to his gym one time. Did you? Yeah, I went with you. That's right. You did. So Don Cardona, a good friend of mine was my first mentor. My first general manager. This is when I was a trainer and then I got into the management side or whatever. How many years does he have on you? He's a little bit older than you. A little bit. He was the youngest GM general manager in 24 Fitness History before I broke his record. You like that, Don? No, but he, let's see, I think he's four years or three years older than me. So not that much, right? But anyway, so he calls me the other day. So he owned a gym in San Jose for a while and Don is just, the guy is, he's one of the best sales managers you'll ever meet. He's just, he's an incredible communicator and he does a very good job. Every gym he's ever run, he crushes and sets records and does the whole thing, right? But he owned a gym for a while. It got destroyed with COVID. All the regulations killed gyms in the area, especially the smaller gyms that were, you know, owner operated because they didn't have all the financing that, you know, big chains did. So we had to shut that down. Things are kicking back into gear. He called me and he's grand opening a UFC gym actually next to where we live, where I live. Oh, really? They're opening another one around here. A big one, right? A big one in the mall next to Oak Ridge Mall or whatever. I think it's still called Oak Ridge Mall, but it's funny because I'm talking to Don and those guys, the owners know because master off owns UFC gyms. It's run by Adam Sedlak. We had him on the, on the podcast, but a lot of those other guys, they don't know who they're dealing with. Like Don is Don's a tornado dude and I'm laughing as I'm talking to him because we're talking about what their numbers are and who the people he'll be because he's very competitive who he's going against and they have no idea. He's that old school manager. He goes in and he's there at 6 a.m. and he doesn't leave until they close the doors and he just grinds and I was talking on the phone. We're just laughing. I'm like, dude, do they even know what they did by putting you at this gym? I can't wait. You know, did I ever tell you when my buddy Mark came back to 24 after he'd left after years and like, you know, the new wave or new generation of kids that it came in that we're working there and he got offered. It wasn't the Hollywood club, but it was down in LA and eventually he made his way over to the Hollywood club, but he actually so and I think this was when Dean had the area down there. Dean offers him a club. He refuses to take the club. He wants to start at the counselor position. Just a sales guy. Yes. So he turns down the opportunity to manage. He's like, nobody knows me here. I'm from Northern California. I don't have the same type of reputation down in LA. You want me to run one of your biggest boxes over here. Let me start off as the grunt. Let me start off as a counselor behind two AGMs. So this the LA clubs are so big that they'd have two AGMs plus a GM and he wanted to start as a counselor just so he could whoop the shit out everybody as a counselor because you know how it is to when you're an AGM, you get all the prime leads first. So as a counselor, you got to you got to generate your own stuff. Yeah, you have to figure it out before the gym starts hooking you up with all the like the Kush leads. And when you get to the AGM position, then you get kind of the Kush leads because you've already proven yourself to get there and now you're not in. You're the best closer in the gym as so you should get the best leads, right? So he asked to come in as a counselor. He's like the third man in line to get any sort of leads of that place and just quadruples the top guy for like the next three months before he gets promoted AGM and then eventually what is it about that generation because I can name, you know, five or six guys from that generation of club managers and we're talking late 90s, early 2000s that just just crush and I really don't know anybody else that came after that really could could hold a candle. What was the culture? The culture was crazy because you grew up in a certain culture. I mean, you grew up in a time when that was the norm that everybody will kind of it was it was I think it was there was a very small percentage of, you know, we call shit butts or losers or whatever that just could not know handouts. Yeah, that were lazy and they and they just got gobbled up by the rest of those and then that person would be out and then a new person would come in. And so there was a greater percentage of those type of people, both men and women that were just killers and sales. And so it had just created this culture and it was company-wide, you know, and then the, you know, when Mastroff was running the place, they did things that I just think were really smart. I mean, and you know this, Justin, you were you were a part of the generation where they got rid of the glass trophies. I remember how pissed you were for months. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, you were shut down for like two months after that because like bragging rights. You know, it's like, you know, I wanted some recognition for that because it's like, you work so hard to get it. And then it's like, they took away the Hawaii month and all that kind of stuff. And it's like, that's what I had left. Well, it just speaks to how we operate as humans too, right? Like you cared more about this stupid little glass trophy than, you know, what exactly dollar amount you made every single month or if you got a raise. And then they, in addition to that, they used to back when we were, Sal. Justin, I don't think this week's just that he was already, this was already gone. So not only would you get these trophies and stuff, we used to meet every month with the entire region. And then they would highlight you in front of everybody. The top and then they would also highlight the bottom five. The UDB, you get it to this meeting. There'd be hundreds and probably a thousand close to a thousand hundreds, at least at least a few hundred people, if not a thousand people in this massive like, you know, hotel or whatever we posted at. And then they'd have a projector up there and the top five producers, you know, in every category from sales counselor to trainer to fitness manager. Yeah. To every position, the top five would get highlighted on that projector. They'd walk up, they'd get their trophy handed in front of everybody and then go sit down. And then the bottom five would get highlighted. And so you never wanted to make that companies could not get away with that. Oh, dude. No, no, okay. So, so I told this story a long time on the podcast. So most people, most listeners probably never heard this, but the way that Don and I really first became close because I was a trainer, you know, 18. I walk in, become a trainer within a few months. I'm the fitness manager. Don comes in as my general manager and he's another young dude. So I'm 18. He's I think 21 at the time, 21, 22. And he was cool, but kind of like, you know, observing like you do when you're a manager, you walk into a gym, you just first couple months, you kind of observe, right? So I talked to him about, I said, look, I want to become a general manager. He's the guy that talked me into starting as a, you know, in sales or whatever. So I did that and we were still cool and you could see that I performed really well, but we didn't become super close until one thing actually happened. So I was in charge of the weekends and this what you used to do as a general manager, you would have your, your senior sales counselor or your assistant general manager run the weekends and it was their job to perform well on the weekends. Well, back in those days, 24, our fitness used to have these giveaways. We have this contest in this month. The contest was that you, you, every time you worked out, you could fill out an entry form to win this really nice, expensive barbecue set and we had it in the middle of the gym. This is like cool barbecue. It was summer, right? Cool ass barbecue set and whatever. And every time you work out, so the more workouts you do, the more to enter entries you get, right? So it's the weekend and I'm competing not against anybody in my club. I'm competing against other clubs and back in those days, we would talk shit to each other and the way we did it. This is before internet was connected or whatever. We would fax each other our numbers. So I would fax the other clubs and then they fax me and then sometimes like you're trailing off and then sometimes they would lie. They tell me that they're at less than what and we play these games with each other, right? Well, I used to call the other clubs that I compete. So I'm in Hillsdale and in those days the top clubs were like Mountain View and Sunnyvale were the big, especially Mountain View. That was a club of crush. So I'd call the front desk and I'd pretend to be calling for their district manager to get their number so I could see what they were doing. Well, anyway, it was this big contest and it was like, let's see whose club does the best over the weekend and I'm like, I'm going to win this, right? So I get in there at 5am, I blow up all the balloons, do the whole thing, whatever and I'm getting numbers from their front desk and it's like the clock is ticking, right? And it's neck and neck. I'm neck and neck with this brand new big club in Mountain View and this family walks in and I do the tour, talk about personal training and I'm like, we're talking about training, memberships. It's like $3,000 deal. That would have put me over and made me win. Last minute, the dude's like, look, we're just going to think about it. We'll come back. You know, I think we're going to do it. We'll come back tomorrow. Hold on one second. Hold on. Wait right here. You cannot leave. Bro, he's in the, I'm using the general manager's office. So he's in the front office. I go and take the barbecue down for the stand or whatever. And I wheel it into the office. If you sign up right now, you'll get this barbecue. He's like done deal. So he signs up. I went the contest. Barbecue's gone, right? Oh, he went. He left with it. Yes. Barbecue is gone, right? So the next day, Don comes in and again, we don't even know each other for like a month, right? Don comes in. He's like, fuck yeah, do good job. You crushed. I knew you would. You just, you know, this is a barbecue. Oh, no, listen, listen. It gets better. I'm here to pick up the barbecue. It gets better, right? He doesn't really notice that the barbecue is gone because, you know, it's like wallpaper. You see it all the time or whatever. So nobody really says anything and I'm kind of like, this is cool or whatever. Let's see what happens. Anyway, the guy walks in that I signed up, gave the barbecue. He walks in through the front door and I'm like, and I'm in the back and I hear him and he goes, hey, can I talk to the manager and I'm sweating. I'm like, oh, shit, like what's what's going to happen right now? So Don comes up and he's like, hey, you know, how can I help you? He goes, yeah, he goes, hey, I got the I yesterday. I, you know, I got the barbecue and I won the membership and sounds like you got the barbecue because yeah, yeah, yeah, I bought the big membership with the training and Sal hooked me up with the barbecue. He goes, but it doesn't work. So there's something wrong with it. I want to see if you guys can fix it. So Don is like display model. So I didn't know Don very well at the time. So I'm like, oh, this is I'm fired. This I'm going to be screwed. I remember I'm an 18 year old kid. I don't know what the limits and the lines are yet whatever. Yeah. So Don talking to this guy and Don has this very serious face, right? And he does whatever talks that comes back in the back office, sits down with me and just starts laughing his ass off and he goes, listen, he goes, you can't do that. He can't do that here. He goes, but I appreciate this. I go very resourceful. I goes, I would, he goes, I would much rather have to pull you back than have to kick you in the ass and push you. He goes, you're my kind of guy. That was it. After that, mean, him became real close. That that's the way that and he covered for me when you know what I found? I find so like interesting when we talk about the culture that was created back then was that you as as a manager, you had, you know, a basic shift, right? Like the nine to six or nine to five type of shift. But nobody followed that and it wasn't told that you had to stay later or you had to come in earlier. In fact, we all police start each other that way. Like if you found out, if I called the club and one of my peers left like it's seven o'clock or six o'clock, you're getting shamed. Oh, you I'm going to talk so much shit when I see you at the next meeting and then you're going to punk that person. And the and it was beautiful if you're if you're the guy running this company, right? You built this thing. How amazing is that that you have got a culture that you've built where these people are calling each other out for quitting work early every day and it became a thing on who could get there the earliest and who would stay there? The latest there was this one AGM in I think it was Protrero Hill in San Francisco and he was all he was I would hit first. I was always first and in second place was far away and then this guy comes in and he's actually starting to get a little close to me and I would do that. I would call in and they'd be like, oh, he went home, you know, eight o'clock. So I actually mailed to the gym a set of pajamas for him. I did and I said it from Sal and he called. What's this all about? Well, you leave early. You must be tired. It's nighttime. But we used to do this and we used to love it and we use your warm glass of milk. We used to say this the following saying I know Adam you remember this. They say bleep purple. Yeah. And back then the purple the purple was the color in the jerseys. Yeah, dude. So ugly. I worked with Fila. Well before feeling even it was just a it was just a polo and it was this purple with the 24 on it. Those were those were good. The Nike day. Yeah. So anyway, so I was talking to Don. I'm like, oh man, they have no idea what they unleashed like I hope all those other managers know that they're going to be chasing a new rabbit. You know, an old guy but somebody who's well it was easy for me to kind of fit in there because it was like such a sports kind of a culture and I you know and I love that night. I think that you know that that's something that I wish more companies would carry that type of a mentality and culture and and care like everybody cared about what they're doing in there. And like you said, we want to leave early. They want to be that guy that girl. They don't want to you know, leave everybody hanging. And it's just like I don't know. There's too much individualism and there's too much and you got to worry about that too. If you're running a massive company and having everybody stay at home now and like how do you how do you rally everybody together to have that kind of passion? You can't you can't have sports culture in the workforce anymore. You can't have you know what your football coach was like. Could you and that was like what it was like back then. It was just like it. Yeah. I mean, I've seen plenty of desks flipped over dudes punch holes in the walls and stuff like that. Just tobacco just flies another day at the office. We had a guy fall asleep in a meeting once and while the you know manager's giving a meeting and he falls asleep and the manager goes shh to everybody quiet and you know we were in chairs that have wheels on them and he opens the door and slowly wheels him out the door and then flings him across the workout floor rolling and the guy wakes up in his chair. I've seen a big muscle had dude that was a counselor for us who wasn't hitting his call targets. Right. So they're supposed to call at least like 70 to 100 phone calls every single day which is a pain in the right. It's a lot of calls but if you never call a hundred hundred people in a day it's a lot of people right. I think that I think they've lowered that bar dramatically today. That's in your main yeah. So I mean that was standard though back then and if you didn't hit that I'll never forget watching this dude get his fucking phone duct tape to his head. Oh yeah. He sat him down they held him down they put the phone to his ear and then they they've wrapped duct tape around his around his hazy but no but you know what though we all loved it I mean the truth is you weren't there unless you didn't be there and you know the fitness atmosphere here's a thing if you if you demand that from your people you better deliver as a manager as a leader and they did back then this is why the culture was that way when they stopped delivering the whole thing started to fall apart but fitness is prime for that because people don't work in fitness for money nobody goes and goes and work in the gym because they want to make a lot of money they go working to gym because they love fitness so the passion is already there the people really care and they want to be better that's it they want they're going in there to to become better and everybody takes that mentality in their individual job like how can I be better today in a lot of times that means working extra hours it does just how it goes this is like back to the conversation we had before the podcast started Justin you brought up like helicopter parents and they're talking about that this is something that is you know part of what's going on with our our colleges right so when the generation right came up through college it became so competitive for parents to get their kids and into school that they began helicopter parenting very early on trying to get them to do so much stuff so they could then get qualified so that's part of the reason and then when the kids get to school they say that it's turned into schooling is now turned into like consumerism where kids now look at school as like hey my parents are paying you know $50,000 a year I want this I want that they started to expect all these things because this place we're paying X amount of dollars and so the school parents just paid for them to be there right and even earn their way in well and that and now the and then the school system start Boeing to that that okay we've got all these kids that are saying that oh they don't want this speaker to come they don't want to hear this they want to hear they want only want to talk about these things and they started to flex to all of them and that's which kind of started this crazy trend that we're in you know I know that we when we look at studies or statistics we look at like things like you know if you're if this is your education then you're like you're gonna make more money than someone with this kind of education or if you go to this kind of school you're more likely to make this much more money than other people or whatever or college versus no college what I'd like to see is studies done on attitude because I bet you that trumps everything I bet you the right attitude that can do attitude the hard working attitude the attitude and the attitude of you know I'm gonna go through this and make it happen I'm a try again and try again and try again I'm gonna work my ass off that right there is will guarantee you more than anything else success more than anything else that are adversity right so adversity is what I would say because you know they talk about this is the the rise of safetyism right that that's what they're trying to coddle all the all this kid and that starts with the parents and then goes into college the double a sword right because you're the parents have have you know got to the point where they don't want their kids to fail they want their kids to be always set up for success and so you somewhat kind of like get where they're coming from when they're trying to you know get them in the best college the best situation so they can you know have whatever life better life you know and have all these opportunities that present themselves to them but they skip over all these steps of failure you can't you have to let your kids fail you have to let them earn their way in life and never own it for themselves it's as parents you don't want to see your kids in pain you don't want to see them hurt you don't want to see them you know sad so it's it's natural and instinctive to want to protect them but the reality is the more they fail when it's okay to fail the less they'll fail when the consequences are massive do you know what the number one thing they attribute this to is the lack of free play hmm the lack you learn a lot of that free play yeah absolutely you learn a lot of a little bit of danger the boundaries getting hurt making mistakes you know getting back up again the rough housing and we have the decline of free play has declined so rapidly that this is this is what they think the result of that is is parents not allowing I can totally see that not allowing their kids to do that yeah you know it's funny the the other day so you know my my baby son is just kid doesn't sleep I told you guys already the vampire or whatever but anyway we put him in the car and we figured out the vampire we figured out if he goes to sleep while we're driving then we can get him to sleep for like an hour and a half or two hours but we got to keep driving can't stop right in fact if I'm at a stoplight you guys if you ever see a car pumping its breaks little by little at the stoplight because they have a baby in the car they're trying to keep the baby asleep as soon as the car still he wakes up but anyway Jessica and I are just driving around right because she's like well we got to keep driving let's get him to sleep so I was like all right let's keep doing this so we're driving around my old neighborhood and whatever and then we go way near the foothills by where I grew up and I see like the bike trails and stuff and I'm like oh man I'm like that's where I used to go with my friends all the time we ride our bikes and I'm looking at these trails and I'm like that is not safe at all like I used to we used to go down those things flying nobody wore a helmet I didn't even own a helmet yeah we did a bunch of crazy shit but you know you're right Adam I mean you learn boundaries and risks and you know in situations where you know as an adult if you fail and as an adult the consequences could be massive failing as a kid usually results in a straight knee yeah you know her feelings her feelings yeah that kind of stuff as an adult you know failing is like oh shit I'm in massive debt my credit scores crap I got divorced or whatever you know terrible stuff so it's you know failing the little stuff is better than failing at the big no toilet you bring up sleep it were just reminding me I've been meaning to tell you because I finally did this you had brought it up before and I hadn't used this with my my chili pad the the oola right so I finally got it set up on the new bed and everything and this one now I have the actual split where Katrina has control I have control and I finally messed with the waking myself up so those of you that have these already and absolutely love love the oola I've I've like played with it enough that I've got this like down to a science for me like I take I make the best so about an hour before I turn on the oola I get it down to 60 degrees exactly I get in and then I set it for and I warm it up to like 80 degrees and it is the most amazing way isn't it weird oh yeah the house is all cold and stuff I keep the house a nice low temperature the bed's cold when I first get in and then it keeps me that way all night long and then about 45 minutes and originally I did it like I thought maybe like it would be like 10 minutes before that's not enough time like I thought 10 or 15 it's enough time for the sunrise type of you need yeah you need for about 45 minutes of the sheets heating up to get to like kind of that peak temperature and then to wake you up and you wake up naturally oh yeah the only feature it's missing is like the smell of bacon you know I mean that would be it for me you're you're waking up was ooh nice like warm coffee yeah coffee so I would breakfast breakfast bed you know by the way did you see consumer reports on the chili pad I did they crushed all beds it's a big market now yeah so now they're making beds that have systems that cool and heat in it's a big big big consumer reports did a bunch of tests on all the top producers and chilly or crushed yeah beat them all number one yeah totally that's super cool yeah the bacon smell would wake me up though you know what I mean yeah I don't know that would be kind of gross coffee dude that's that's my weekend though I guess that's why yeah coffee for sure but like bacon for me it's just it's an extra draw yeah oh you know what I got something for you guys it's weird so did you guys know okay I'm gonna I'm gonna look this up because I don't want to pronounce this wrong so I read this really weird article sometimes I look up weird news because yeah it's really really interesting stuff you and me both so there's something called Amberges I think I'm pronouncing right a m b e r g i s or Amberges I don't know do you guys know what that is I feel like I've heard this before no okay it's whale vomit yes okay so that's what they use for these perfumes and things that yeah and they harvest it dude I know it's flam it's like they hawk this stuff up that they use a whale from a whale tick that's what the whale told you out of you just carve off I thought I heard that I've never heard this one but I thought I heard how many mushrooms did you eat yeah I don't know that the whale told me to put it on his lipstick kept doing it yeah it's gonna work oh dude it'll make you pretty yeah keep rubbing it on your lips trust me it's lipstick no no there's this woman in Thailand I believe found a huge lump of whale vomit so she brought it home and dude it's like gold okay so it was it's seven kilos seven kilograms it's how much it weighed so 12 inches wide how much does she make 24 inches lot do you know much it was valued at what like 50,000 14 pounds of vomit is what 186,000 pounds of dollars dollars 186,000 what so expensive extremely extremely expensive and Justin said it they use bits of it or whatever for perfumes and for because cologne and apparently it causes the perfume to last a long time and it smells always hated the smell of perfume and cologne really yeah I don't like you like to smell of perfume and cologne not too most you know I don't at all I hate floral perfumes oh yeah I don't like perfumes at all like a scent none no perfume none a scented lotion on a on a girl is enough right that's like that they have like you know Victoria secrets lotion that have all the different smells that is a strong enough smell for me that it's like oh that smells really good perfume or cologne like my dude my brother-in-law stated our place this last week because we took off right up to truckie aftershave everywhere oh dude my whole house for two days smell like cologne some people really over do it oh and I don't think he really over does it that much at least I didn't think he did until it gives me a really strong bro get rid of that smell so you don't like any what about body sprays you know the ones that are not even worse you know I only do I only do aftershave if I do anything yeah I can't do cologne like you spray yeah it's like way too strong so Jessica's like she's a fanatic for cologne oh really oh yeah if I want to like if I want to like you know get her in a mood or what I just got sprayed on really oh yeah I feel like cologne and perfume is such a strong smell that it's like you're hiding not taking showers that's what I feel like so do you think it's the association that's the problem I don't know I don't know it's not the middle it's not the big big major well I also have the hippie shower I also think I have like a really like sensitive like I can I whenever I walk I can walk into a room and like pick up on a smell right away and I'm my allergies my nose itches all the time so I think I'm like extra sensitive I wonder do you know have you ever been tested to see if you're a super taster oh you mean like for like they do for like Somalia's or whatever like that yeah you know how much money those people yeah they make good money hella money and all they do what do you got to taste all that that's my wine oh just no I know I know I know Somalia's I'm talking we're talking about super taster yeah no that's that's all they do is that that's that's what they did it for like those guys make the most money that's what they make the most money yeah I think they make the most money you sit there and you I don't understand by the way I don't understand why you guys are you go wine tasting yeah this is oaky the fuck he's got a tan and bark it's like why like what get me drunk I'll take some water this is a bold so you don't like any any women's perfumes huh no not at all yeah yeah not at all but you know you brought the the body spray for women I feel is lighter than like the body acts so you like the you like the the lotions even back you like the stripper smells is what you like you like candy I could as long as sparkles in it like I mean that's the big joke in my house actually could you like I can always tell we could choose trying to get some because she comes out of the shower smell like cotton candy and coming to the stage is cinnamon yeah it's like cinnamon I know I'm getting so much Mercedes yeah coming to the stage smells like that I know it's going down oh my God that's yeah that's that's terrible oh baby yeah mom just died anyway speaking of of of smells and lotions and stuff like that so I am getting I didn't I never it's funny we work with sponsors sometimes we say I don't know we'll see what happens I keep getting dm's from people who use caldera a lot of guys yeah love it yeah absolutely love it no no it's I mean shit before you guys even started using it I was getting a ton of messages like people that have used it and just absolutely I didn't think I would ever use it I mean I was like almost like really like you're like what you guys are had to sell me hard on it but yeah it's at this point to I don't know why but we have places like that are really dry like like so the truckies really dry we go up there like the desert I go there every now and then it's really dry but so I'm just like I was like cracking and like really ashy and like I was just putting that stuff on like I was going to sit in a vat of that stuff it works all my hands you look you look more handsome right now and younger yeah you know yeah I didn't even know yeah there's levels Andrew put the camera on his face look at that alright take it off because it's going to get crazy we can't go too hard with all of that I wasn't ready for that hey I read a crazy article I want to hear you guys opinion so there's this this professor I can't remember where he teaches let me pull him up real quick I think they're talking about doctors who's being racist no geez can you believe me we all knew yeah okay so really Horton here's really come on actually come on have you seen some of the looking for something have you seen some of the pictures I did not I would didn't even waste my time I did not would not it was gonna rhyme keep going yeah should not red red fish blue fish I don't give a fuck fish no but anyway so there's that's racist there's this one professor from Columbia University you might have seen him before I'll show you guys a picture this is Dr. Sue stuff for you no not doctors have you seen this guy on TV before he looks familiar so super good-looking very smart yeah he's part of the secret right he might have been like black dude right he's got the he's got the long I know that dreads good-looking dude or whatever anyway you know it is Michael Beckwith right oh is that his name back words I'm not sure why don't you get so excited when you say his name Doug I know no no you said the dreads I recognize who he was well I don't know is that anyway oh so so a busted I've watched his videos so a Columbia University professor I think that's every once in a while what's to improve the quality of his life so he says wow so here's what he said that you know what we are heading this way remember we predicted this a while about the drug thing the micro dosing of heroin is now going to have positive that's here well here's what he says there it comes this is his quote right here it says there aren't many things his name is Carl Hart sorry Doug Carl Hart it pair guy it pairs with the opium receptor which is the same thing that it makes you feel good and happy I could totally see how you've heard of these cultures that like you know work really hard but they also have like little bumps of coke or you know math yeah but but I mean like it's part of a culture like it's like you know they're they're chewing coca leaves you know and they're just trying to get through their day but they're very productive and like this is something well like anything else doses yeah as I say like anything else found in nature and in small doses and and you know done infrequently is probably actually not bad at all so Jessica chewed coca leaves she went on a I don't remember where she what she's been all over the world so I think it's awesome but she she would do in one of those hikes and that's what they give you they give you coca leaves now it's not the same as like you know cocaine it's much less strong I have heard though like yeah little micro dosing heroin and like like crazy like hardcore drugs like in some cultures where they're like it just it helps them level out or something here's what it's his quote he says this is his quote because there aren't many things in life that I enjoy more than a few lines by the fireplace at the end of the day he says the experience leaves him refreshed and prepared to face another day now he's a very accomplished professor but here's what he says he says he finds it to be as rational as his alcohol use like vacation sex and the arts heroin is one of the tools I use to maintain my work life balance now here's the truth yeah what's the response to this well here's the deal let's be let's let's talk about this objectively right yeah you know drugs definitely have a different like there's a different it's almost like drugs have their own PR agencies right and some drugs like crack got really bad PR and some drugs like you know marijuana now has got seems to have really good PR and I definitely it's proven that some drugs have way more capacity for abuse than others but the reality is I mean if you're an adult first off it's your body I think you could probably I could see this because like alcohol has caused way more damage than almost any other drug because it's accepted just like caffeine right you know and that's I think that's just it I think that drugs like I'm not going to go do heroin by the way I I just think they they fall into the wrong hands typically right the the wrong person gets a hold of of all these drugs and that's where it's bad it's not it's not the drug so much it's the the the looking to escape from life yeah it's it's the behaviors that are around that but if you are somebody who's very self-aware you know the addictive properties you know if you were medicating on a on a regular basis that you're abusing it if you've got that awareness and you use it well I mean you hear all the time like Silicon Valley execs and all like they're micro dosing you know psilocybin and LSD all the time like I hear stores this all the time and athletes even and you'd be like what well it's crazy well the the understanding of addiction has changed right we thought addiction was a lot about the substance the substance was so powerful you just can't control yourself over it that it makes you it makes you become addicted and then kill yourself and the way they base it were were animal studies and what they would do is they would take a rat for example and they put the rat in a cage and then they give the rat access to water and food or water with cocaine in it for example and the rat would use the cocaine over and over again until it you know basically cocaine or whatever drug for cocaine to water yeah it's so it's it's so story it's so powerful that you just can't resist yourself you won't drink water you'll just do life but the reality is it's a it's a rat in a cage right so it's depressed exactly I could imagine if all of us were locked up in a cage rage and and you guys are on fire yeah this is good if we were locked up in a cage and given access to drugs we'd all probably you know just give us access to alcohol we'd probably drink like crazy look at what's going on with food because it's so widely accepted and we have an abundance of it and people have problems elsewhere they use the food to medicate yes right yes so what they they have other studies now where they'd give rats open you know areas they have mates to play with and to mate with and to do all this stuff and they find the use goes way the fuck down rat utopias yeah when you find an addict you almost always find underlying reasons so it's not the drug that was just their way of find that was just their yeah it's what they're bringing into a really powerful substance totally totally and this is what look I'll tell you what as a trainer how many times have you guys dealt with food addicts and and it wasn't the food it was this underlying shit that caused the problems no and that's what I mean by the the wrong person gets a hold of a lot of these drugs listen there's a lot of people that a lot and I didn't start to learn this until I got much older there's a lot of people that use a lot of these recreational drugs millions that you would not have any idea about it they don't do it ever advertise it they don't do it every night they don't do it even every week it's something that they've learned that they can dabble in and out of and they know that how strong an addictive it is and how dangerous it can be and so they've they've been able to balance that in their life that there's no one talks about is so taboo right like heaven forbid like that's what's so crazy about this article is this guys coming out being like hey you know I can be a PhD do all these things probably write some books and I could do some heroin on that well here let me give you an example what if I said you know on the days that I really need to focus and work hard you know I'll have a little bit of amphetamines just to get me going I'll have a little bit of that and people oh my God you do what but yeah it's Adderall right it's a prescription right amphetamine but if you said math they would freak everybody right right but a brand name right exactly or or what if I said I got back pain you know so I take you know Percocet to help my back or whatever it's a opiate it's like heroin just in pill form in pill form right so it's really it's the people behind it so we have to change so what is okay so I didn't know anything about this guy like are you reading what the backlash is are people freaking out yeah people are freaking out but I think that the the war on drugs has been such an absolute failure attitudes are starting to shift and change around you're starting to see and the laws that we put on on the war on drugs to curtail it's used first of all we're used this weapons politically we know this we know that the we had a crazy cultural wars in the 60s and 70s and the U.S. government saw a lot of these protesters who were against the Vietnam War and by the way you know however crazy last year was with protests of stuff it pales in comparison to what we saw in the 60s and 70s and the government actually saw this as a threat what do we do they're protesting peacefully we can't throw them in jail and they came up with the brilliant idea why don't we make the drugs that they use so illegal that we can then throw them in jail and that's where the real hard war on drugs came from and then of course behind it were people who were like yeah people shouldn't use drugs I see drug addicts do let's definitely punish people and then states started enacting these crazy laws where these minimum sentence laws where if you're found with you know anything more than a gram of whatever drug minimum five years in jail like that's not going to cause more problems than the actual drug itself well they also found too that I don't know if his FBR CIA had you know had agents that would go in provocateurs agents that would go into these peaceful protests and sell drugs no they would get violent and start violent and like yeah like that way they could shut it down old school antifa or something yeah so I mean let's just think about that like like that like this is very successful tactic to to shut down what you don't want yeah that we saw this yeah I think it's just they've reinvented it and and now we have you know all a million psychological games on everybody yeah and you we have social media now we just didn't have the access to know what's going on in every state like by the minute all the time and so like you said it was way worse back in the 60s and 70s it's just you didn't get it reported to you you know it had in order to get that it had to be so big it made it to the news where you see every incident well I was tripping out because so like I rent this place out now and I I didn't realize people still watch regular TV yeah like like like we've moved on to streaming yeah we have all these services we talk about all the time like but there's there's people that just want to turn on the TV I want to look at like NBC and I want to go this stupid sitcom and I want to go this thing and it's like they're still living in that same you know programming and it's it's it's hilarious to me that it's it's still a thing yeah it is but you know I so I watched regular TV not that long ago do you know how weird it was watching commercial laugh tracks Oh yeah in the background I want to kill myself talk about psychology though right it does make you want to laugh of course watch watch an episode of friends without the laugh in the background and it's just the shitty so phony I said it it's a shitty show without the walk in the background I didn't have our audience right that's Jessica's favorite show all time all right friends is her favorite the only good one was yeah where he like I forget was his name is Ross or whatever yeah he made a song and in a robot song is the only good episode yeah the one with the robot song the robot song I'll take that one that's right I was a Seinfeld guy yes Seinfeld yes I'll watch that all day yeah that that doesn't even need a laugh track that's just good humor there there it is that's how I feel all right before we get started with the live questions a quick message so in this next portion you're going to hear us answering questions from live people who want coaching on air now one guy we talked to Barry was talking about getting leaner he wants to get more cut if you go to minepumpfree.com we have a free guide called how to lose fat in three steps it's very valuable and it costs nothing it's totally free go to mine pump free.com go check it out download it in fact we have other guides there as well they're all totally free all right enjoy this portion all right our first caller is Anna from Wisconsin hey Anna how can we help you hi guys it's nice talking to you I've listened to your podcast for a couple of years here and I've loved everything you've been able to provide to everybody but my question is I'm 22 I've been working out consistently for about seven to eight years I work out five to seven days a week and I have been doing that for since I began working out and as of right now I've been having a plateau I've been feeling unstable with my squats and my dead lifts I do work out more for like but I was just wondering if you guys could could provide me with some assistance on maybe a program to buy of one of your guys's or anything that I could do to help assist my squats my dead lift in my overall strength okay thank you very much for a little bit of that background because I wasn't ask you those questions I do have some more questions though let's talk about your diet for a second do you know like grams of protein how many calories you're eating and are you eating in a deficit a surplus so just because I don't believe I get enough of it through whole foods I do have to do more vegan based protein when it comes to protein powders just because I can't handle dairy I would say I'm taking in about 80 to 90 grams I'm not currently tracking right now but I eat a very regular diet it's very consistent so I'm about 80 to 90 grams of protein a day I'm usually on average around 1500 calories sometimes I do go up to 18 overall I do watch what I eat because I do have celiac disease and heart disease does run in my family so I am being watched under a dietitian for that and then how about programming what is your training looks like right now do you have a program you're currently following or how do you typically train so I did see a personal trainer for a couple years so a lot of my programming is based off of what he had prescribed to me I do like legs about two to three times a week if it is three times it's more like an overall body workout and then I go on to like upper body the other days of the week and then I do do cardio on the day I'm like usually the seventh day of the week just to kind of give my body some rest how how tall are you and how much do you weigh if you don't mind me asking I'm 53 and I weigh about 127 pounds okay so you're you're probably pretty lean working out that much that body weight that I'm going to recommend when's the last time you went on like a bulk and what I mean by that is not a crazy bulk but rather you ate and trained in a way to gain as much strength as possible I guess I haven't necessarily ever gone on a major bulk or like you guys the so-called bulk I do try to increase my calories every like eight weeks I would say where I do do a couple weeks where I'm eating a little bit more I try to train a little bit heavier and then do a little less cardio that's kind of what I'm doing right now I did increase my carbs and I'm increasing my protein currently just to see if that was going to help my plateau awesome okay so here's what I'm going to recommend to you you mentioned that your calories are about 15 to 1800 and you're working out five to seven days a week so I'm going to recommend that you increase your calories again closer to 2000 in the program I think you should follow would be maps power lift now strength focused and it's going to be a good idea that to take your focus away from how you look and focus on pure strength with the bump in calories now here's what you'll probably notice by doing that especially with your history of exercise your body weight may go up a little bit but it's going to be muscle or it'll stay the same and you'll see a nice transfer of weight or changing composition I should say where you get a little bit leaner and you build a little bit more muscle a few months well I also like that recommendation because you had mentioned you had a little bit of instability as you were gradually adding load to those main lifts and I and obviously that program itself really emphasizes those lifts and teaches you the skill of those lifts and I think that would be a really helpful addition just out of curiosity and where where is your squat and dead lift how much are you squatting and dead lifting currently so I actually had a little bit of back injury and I did have a significant pelvic tilt so as of right now I'm cutting back on heavy weight just because I'm trying to get my form back to how it's supposed to be I was over compensating on my left side compared to my right so as of right now I'm only squatting about a hundred just because I do have the instability and I'm trying to get my body back to what it's supposed to be doing so it's not as high as it has been but I am solely progressing and kind of working my way up with doing more resistance bands and getting back to that those staple lifts then doing more isolation isolation that was a great question Adam I would say then in that case maps power lift plus maps prime pro for the correctional component but I really do think if you did like a three month focus on just strength you bumped your calories you worked on the correctional stuff for maps prime pro which you can do every single day and then you followed maps power lift and really in an appropriate intelligent way which I have quite a bit of confidence you'll do that just from listening to you talk for the last couple minutes I think you'll you'll be pretty smart with the weight that you use but you you get your strength up and focus just on that of course appropriately I think you'll be very very satisfied with how your body responds so what we're going to do by the way is we're going to give you those I know you said you want to buy a program but because you called in we're going to hook you up with both of those programs but I do want you to follow up let us know how it's working out for you you say you say you notice like a shift in your hips when you when you're squatting is that what you said yeah I was a competitive figure skater for about 14 years so I did have an ACL and MCL tear and also a hip injury that I've kind of struggled with doing my squats and deadlifts for a while so ever since then I do catch myself over compensating on one side than the other because of that have you have you are you familiar with Miguel Plains I don't believe so so Google that when we get off here on YouTube and watch that I would recommend before you get into your squatting that you you prime and warm up with that before you get in that'll help with the stability and and you're shifting from side to side when you squat perfect all right thank you for calling in yeah thank you guys have a great day you too yeah you know it's funny so many especially young girls her age would benefit so much the bulk from just focusing on getting stronger for a few months that's not marketed at all yeah it's in fact there that's marketed the opposite but they would every time I've ever trained a client young female like that it's always a new novel stimulus because they never trained that way and then when they introduce it they're like blown away oh my gosh I can't believe like wow I'm so strong I'm strong my body's shaping the way I've always wanted it to my metabolism is boosting my libidos going up my hormones seem to be balancing because they never really focus on you know building I mean she's very aware of everything going on with her body and she's very sure yeah I mean at that age to already know that you have like an issue with an imbalance when you're squatting to know that you have this slight interior pelvic till to be focused on strength like the skill of competitive figure skating I mean she's got like great body awareness you have to at that yeah and she's used to working with coaches one on one yeah I mean you don't get to that level unless you do so I think that's why I felt so confident giving her advice to focus on strength because it sounds like she's going to be smart about it young our next caller is cliff from georgia hey cliff how can we help you and yeah I was just a I started working out back in August 41 years old um I dropped 35 pounds and now I'm just kind of stuck and I was thinking about beginning like a cutting and bulking phase and I have no idea where to start with that which way do I go how do I know which ones the right step do I change my work out with cutting and bulking Oh good question and first off congratulations on losing 35 pounds how long did that take you to to do um I just I wait in wait in last week so I'm at a I started 246 I was at 211 0.5 last week so what how six months or so I guess okay so I'm cutting because you've lost 35 pounds in about six months which is a relatively that's a pretty good pace so I don't think you should keep cutting if you found you're at you're at a plateau I would do a slight reverse okay so I would increase your calories a little bit not a ton a little bit and then I would focus on building strength and muscle you said you just started working out in August what does your routine look like what is what do you what do you look like per week I've been doing like a a full body type deal four to five times a week you know if I I go early in the morning so if I wake up and I'm tired I just I don't have a rest day set in stone if I'm just not I just let my body tell me if if it's not feeling it then I use that as a rest day and go to the next day okay well that's actually that's actually not a bad strategy any cardio or just I've just been doing strength training oh good yeah nice that's actually really good to have dropped that kind of weight and you haven't been doing any cardio whatsoever right now yeah I would I would say Cliff I would say maps and a ball liquid is made specific I mean it's perfect for someone like you and I would start in pre phase I would do the foundational workouts three days a week since you've already been working out because you can choose between two to three days a week and then I would do the trigger sessions on the off days I think that would be the perfect workout routine for you but as far as diet is concerned I would definitely go on a bulk but I would do it very slowly so you want to take your average calories that you're consuming on a daily basis and bump them by two to three hundred calories and stay there for a few weeks see how you feel and then do it again and then continue to go up unless you see too much of a rapid weight gain in which case I would stop adding calories maybe do a little bit of a cut the bulk but you're ready to go into the into the gaining portion now of training because for six months you've already been cutting Cliff have you have you tracked calories do you have any idea where you're at No I haven't really been tracking calories I've just been trying to make better decisions and I made up my rule of two so I get two restaurants two beers and two sodas every two weeks I like that that's just it's you're on to something that worked worked for me you're on to some I think so I think you're right I should probably copyright that I was going to say I think you got I think you got a diet book waiting rule of two drop a decent yeah like I said it it wasn't nothing intentional it's just something I did so I wouldn't like force myself into a situation where I knew I would fail yet you know I mean I just didn't want to kill everything because I knew that uh smaller if I decided to have a beer I I would I would have 12 and not two you know what I mean you know that's that's that's brilliant and it just highlights that you've able you've been able to do that no cardio and you still lost a lot of weight in a short period of time which is probably why Sal's pushing you the direction of a bulk means that you probably actually just by doing that and cutting out a lot of other things you've probably reduced calories pretty significantly to what you were doing before and the body's probably ready to be fed so I would increase calories good calories right so that doesn't mean we get to have the rule of four now instead of the rule of two uh to start adding in a little bit of maybe an extra healthy meal a day in there that's a good balance of protein carbs and fat and and see where your body responds and I'd probably do that pretty consistently for about four weeks or so before I probably reduce back down a little bit and see how your body responds I have to warn you though because if you've been training four to five days a week and then you jump into the pre-phase of anabolic like Sal suggesting it will seem like very little at first and I think that's one of the hardest things for people that have already been training for a little while is they see the program and they think oh man I can do so much more than this but if you trust the process and follow the entire program through the way it's laid out I think you'll see great results yeah and I got to echo to I was going to jump in uh about like starting to kind of dial in and dial in like what you're actually consuming and start tracking a bit I know it's a bit of a pain in the ass but like what you did initially is brilliant to get you you know some progress and be really aware of your own habits but now once you hit that plateau it's like we got a sort of like peer into that a bit further and see what that actually looks like so you can just make little micro tweaks so this isn't like big adjustments out of your daily routine it's just this is what my tendencies are now I'm going to tighten it up a little bit and a great place to start because I think it's great advice from Justin the great place to start is actually if you haven't done this already is just start tracking protein just start tracking protein and make sure you hit your protein intake while you're also following the maps anabolic program that that should do you pretty well yeah and we're going to send that to you by the way so when we hang up here Doug is going to send over maps anabolic so you'll have access also I appreciate that fellas I really I really do and like like I said I this was just like my beginning phase is pretty general getting there and now I'm like well what what do I do now what direction do I go in because I'm kind of flatline not not in a cliff I'm going to say this to you okay so you know I've been training people for a long time okay and I can usually tell right out the gates of someone has the right attitude or the wrong attitude and most of my training was dedicated to getting people in the right mindset you're almost all the way there you got the right mindset in fact what you're saying right now oftentimes takes me a years to get people to to start with so everything you're saying is you're on the right track I think you're going to you have a very very good chance of long-term success well I hope so and I appreciate it y'all y'all've helped me out quite a bit just uh kind of keeping me focused and keeping me going in the right direction and being able to uh pluck things out that I can put into my own routine you know good deal man thanks for calling yeah awesome thanks I appreciate it y'all that's that's an ideal client oh yeah I know that's exactly if he's killing it right out of the I mean what he said uh about I I wanted to you know start and with something I knew I wouldn't fail so self-aware so perfect right a very simple easy rule that was realistic for him very very very some made a lot of sense and it just highlights that he can still have this balance you know of eat now having a be occasional beer so that no cardio and a drut 35 pounds in six months is almost too fact substantial in fact he probably reduced a lot of things that he was eating that was not ideal so much that he dropped more than he even needed to in that short period of time so he's on the right track his body's probably wanting more calories right now and I think that's the perfect thing for him is to increase but increase with good choices and go through like a strength phase type of programming and his body's going to respond and what he said about you know when my body's tired I take a break oh yeah I mean listening to your body you know how hard that is to get people to do you know I mean you could you could program it all day but if you're not paying attention what your body signals are like good luck yeah if you're listening right now that's the attitude you want even though he's a beginner and he doesn't probably have a lot of knowledge he's got the right attitude and that's way more important than the than the actual knowledge absolutely our next caller is Caroline from Colorado hey Caroline how can we help you hi I I recently finished running and I tried to be in a calorie deficit for the last half of the program but toward the end my nutrition fell pretty inconsistent I'm in college so it's kind of hard to stay on track all the time and right now my goals are more centered on strength and mobility as well as just like figuring out what to do with my nutrition I have a history of disordered eating so I kind of realized that the whole like cut bulk approach is probably not the best for me like I said just wanted to ask you guys what your advice is for where to go from here in my workouts as well as how to like rain in my nutrition when everything feels all over the place very very good question I'm gonna ask you a few more questions Caroline just get more information from you when you what do you notice when you put a lot of focus on your nutrition do you find yourself swinging strongly from end to end in other words you focus on it and then you go off but you go off on a bit in a big way yeah definitely okay so the advice I'm going to give you may sound counter intuitive but in my experience it with with situations like yours I think this might be the best thing I think you should not focus on your nutrition now that doesn't mean you're not gonna you know try to eat healthy and all that's kind of stuff I mean take the the magnifying glass off your nutrition stop focusing so much on it and instead I want you to train and focus on and when it comes to nutrition I want you to bring awareness to how the food makes you feel so try to eat in ways that improve your strength and your health and that's about all the focus you should place because in a situation like yours the more you focus on nutrition the more elusive it's gonna get the more you start to develop this bad relationship with food Caroline do you actually do you own our intuitive eating guide I don't okay that's that's a must so I'll have Doug ship that over to you and then my other recommendation because you did say strength and mobility you you could run anabolic again but my recommendation would be to move on to performance which is the natural progression from anabolic which is heavily mobility focused and there's a lot of unique exercises that a lot of people are not familiar with so take your mind off of the nutrition stuff focus more on strength and learning new exercises and then doing the mobile mobility days on your your off strength days and then intuitive eating as as the main focus of any sort of nutrition focus at all I think would serve you really well yeah Caroline do you do you think that you're somebody worth taking care of absolutely okay that's that's that's what I want you to focus on okay so imagine if you had a a child or a friend that you were taking care of when you're taking care of that person you're not going to be overly strict but you're you're also not going to be overly indulgent with them right so you know like I have kids and sometimes I let them have cookies but a lot of times I don't because it's not good for them sometimes it is good for them to have one other times it's not and that's because I care about them and I take care of them like I care about them that's the focus I want you to have with your nutrition I don't want you to focus on calories macros oh my gosh I eat you know I eat a cupcake yesterday oh I ate too much you know today or I didn't need enough putting too much focus on nutrition is probably not a good idea for you right now instead focus on how you feel taking care of yourself and then if you if you need to place your focus on something focus on your performance in the gym more often than not it'll point you in the right direction because it's hard to eat in a way that makes you unhealthy and improve your performance so if you need to focus on something focus on performance and that should help and then of course taking care of yourself and that should start to direct you in the right way okay awesome thank you guys so much no problem yeah that's the irony of you know having issues with food is that you think oh I have stuff I have to deal with these food issues let me focus on them even more right and it makes it way worse I kept thinking because I remember my college experience and I was going to ask her about you know be the dorm life and having to eat at the cafeteria all the time but then that's going to just reiterate you know the focus of just like trying to scramble and figure this whole nutrition thing out when it's great in terms of like relieving her of that stress well it's so nice that we we're getting questions where people are honest enough to admit this yes because honestly most of my experience with clients you don't get that the first encounter when you first meet clients and they're telling you about their goals it's very surface you know you rarely get somebody to be like oh by the way too I have a little bit of an eating disorder or a challenge there they don't even mention that normally it takes like a year of training someone before they open up yes so it helps us be able to advise better not knowing any better I would tell this person oh let's start tracking food and let's see where your calories are and start getting them to focus on that but it's important that you know for people that are listening I know we talk a lot about and I talk a lot about how much I think tracking calories and food is so important to learning but there's always an exception to rule this is an exception the rule when you have somebody that has had eating disorders in the past that could be the worst thing to actually advise them to yes and and I want to make sure I say this on the podcast very clear obviously none of us are you know therapists in in that field if you're listening and you're somebody that really has an issue with nutrition and that in that particular way the best thing you could use work with a therapist or counselor who is experienced and in qualified in that arena but again it is very interesting it's one of those things it's like you know putting hyper folk hyper focus on nutrition causes more anxiety and stress around nutrition which then causes you to do this very things that you're worried about in the first place and what it looks like is I'm obsessively strict and then I go so far off I hate myself and it's this this in and out terrible relationship that continues to spiral and get worse and it's either I become you know so ridiculously strict and anal about my nutrition that I lose my friendships and I lose myself or I go in so bad of the opposite direction that I cause myself health problems so oftentimes just taking your focus off of that placing it on something else and then just constantly thinking how can I take care of myself? A lot of people are unaware they have this issue too oh yeah because they've seen success you know just because you you track you weigh you measure do these things and you have a streak of six months of getting in great shape doesn't mean this potentially isn't a problem for you also you know so I think that's what's tough is a lot of clients you get are unaware that they even have this on or off the wagon type of issue they think that's just how that how this process goes either I'm focused on a goal and I have a wedding or I have Vegas in a in a couple of months and I'm dialed in and then and or I'm off and that's a lot of times the problem yeah our next color is Barry from Tennessee Hey Barry how can we help you? Hey guys love what y'all are doing keep doing it my question is one of my one of my goals I've got a few goals but one is to get to around for six packs I have too much fun on the weekends for that more of a a four pack type of guy yeah but if I hover around if I if I hover around 15% body fat most of the time I've never really gotten super lean so main question is should I focus heavily on gaining muscle and strength and just staying fed unless the body kind of metabolism do its thing or should I try to go on a bit of a cut that's that's a good question Barry how long have you been sitting at about 15% body fat I feel like it's my and again that's it I haven't gone somewhere to get it professionally tested I had calipers and I tested it a few probably three weeks ago really tested it after COVID kept me from going into the gym I was doing a lot of at home workout being sedentary but just from pictures of myself I think I tend to hover around that for a long time I played lacrosse in college so I was probably closer to 12 or 10% body fat back in you know 2012 but since then I've kind of gotten a little fluffy okay well if you've been at 15 for a while I'd say let's let's do a cut let's see drop down a little bit because and here's why when one of my favorite things about dropping body fat is the after when I start to bulk again so if you go down to 12 or 11 and then slowly increase the calories you're going to see this nice muscle rebound it's like the body it's almost like a sponge when you do that for a little while and it could take you you know going from 15 to 12 percent body fat if you do it at a nice even pace would take you about I don't know six to nine weeks if you do it at a nice slow pace and at the end of that increase your calories and and it's going to be real fun it's really fun at that point to feel the muscle and strength gains after a cut this is also a place where I would highly recommend starting to actually track food right to kind of see where you're at because it sounds like if you've been hovering around that 15 to 16 you've kind of found you know your your natural body fat percentage that your body likes to be at with your lifestyle meaning you enjoy the weekends every now and then you have consensus consistency probably during the week and if you're going to break that plateau you're going to to peer in a little bit more to exactly you might need to switch to white claws bro yeah so I painful but I would I would say you would you would want to peer into your nutrition a little bit to get a closer look on exactly kind of what you're doing calorie wise and protein and carbs and fats and then from there take the advice that Sal's saying go on a cut for like four to six weeks and try and lean out and then re reintroduce and I don't and what may happen during that time is up on the weekend while you're trying to lean out depending on where you're currently at so I mean I definitely because when you're around that just by the way to for the audience that's listening when you're around where you're at you sound like you're in a pretty healthy place so if you're if you were just trying to be healthy I'd say you're probably kicking ass at it I mean you work out you exercise you maintain about 15 to 16% I mean shit you're leaner than Sal and Justin right now so that's a pretty good that's it's a pretty good place to be right now so I don't think there's anything wrong with where you're at but if you want to take it to the next level lean out and see how your body responds that you're probably gonna have to take your tracking and and following your nutrition a little bit tighter and I'm 14.8% Adam I'm actually a little leaner than a few points I'm leaner than Barry Barry what does your workout look like so during December January half of February got out of the gym and was doing a lot of TRX I got y'all's TRX program and y'all's Maps Anywhere program was doing those with just body weight and stuff got finally got back in the gym about a week and a half ago and started maps anabolic felt that would be a good one so I'm on just started second week of phase one in a ball beautiful this is this is one of track yeah this is one of strength gains really start to kick in it's it's a good time phase one is my favorite cool yeah awesome full perfect thanks thanks for calling in Barry yeah thank you guys y'all going no problem yeah I mean you know when you're at something for that long and that's a good you know 15% is not it's a great place it's not overweight it's not super lean comfortable it is and if you have good muscle under it you're healthy fit you look good with your shirt off she probably does because he's he stayed consistent even during COVID he's on anabolic right now so the guy is probably pretty strong probably doing you know if the if his goal was health and I'd tell him he's right he's doing perfect right now but if you want to take your body to the next level and you and you want to lean out from there this is where this is where I think because this is what we run into with a lot of people as they get out of dabble they've got they get into this place where you know that the body just kind of finds this homeostasis for them which for him is probably this 15 which allows him to have this flexibility of kind of eating what he wants every now and then and not really having to track but then when you say have a goal like I want to lean out to a certain percentage this is where I just you got to track you got to see where you're at to get an idea because what will end up happening is you'll have one or two good weeks where maybe you start to lean out and then you'll have a high week and then when you pull back and look at it over four weeks you're kind of staying the same you're not really making any progress that's kind of weird how the body just naturally does that you know if you cut back for a couple weeks but then you're really hungry that following week and then you start to over consume a little bit and it all levels out to be that 15 16% that couldn't agree more look mine pump is recorded on video as well as audio so you can come find us on YouTube if you want to watch the podcast you can also find all of us on social media Instagram is the place to get us you can find Justin at mine pump Justin me at mine pump Sal and Adam at mine pump Adam here's what we need to worry about okay if you're going to drink have your meals planned out for yourself really screw up the most you can add up all the calories from the drinks it usually doesn't even come close to the calories that they have from the food that comes along with the drinks Oh and that was a game changer for me and well especially when you and I remember when I pieced this together