 to Igor Juergens, who is the president of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs. We've talked a lot about Russia, Igor, you may want to comment how you see the long-term future of Russia's relations, particularly with the West, which at the moment are politically very bad, although interestingly trade is going up. Alright, Igor. Thank you very much, Carl, and special thanks to Teri Dimobriyale, of course, for this fantastic opportunity to talk offline. I'm sorry that I couldn't get all of the speech of our Chinese colleague, because I will start with your idea of followers and hedgers. We are at the same time followers and hedgers, and believe me, inside Russia, there are followers who would definitely would like to go along the centrally planning, economic, and politically robust anti-Western policies, and there are hedgers who want to use this to restore the relationship with the West. In 2003, Mr. Putin signed strategic partnership and cooperation agreement with European Union. We started building common economic space, common security space, common everything. Okay, so now we arrive to the situation of strategic confrontation. And vice versa, with the Chinese People Republic, we were at war on the Monsky Island 50 years ago, and now we're in a strategic partnership embracing each other. This partnership is not harmonious. Many in Russia think that economic cooperation is lopsided, one-sided, and investment is not coming. But militarily and politically, at this particular period, we don't have any other place to go, and this is a marriage of convenience, which will go on for some time, no question about that. But the coupling of the United States and China, which is taking place now, is very hard to test for us too. It will bring more volatility on the financial markets, on economic markets, on the supply chain. It will bring more tension to the international system and to Russia also. And from the point of view of making an estimate whether it's a Cold War or not yet a Cold War, but something else, I would say it's very close to the Cold War with this broadening of extent of the Cold War. Because only two years ago, from the same rostrums and the same panels as today, I was hearing that there is no ideological component of the Cold War now, because we're all in the free markets and everything else. Judging by the statements from the President Xi Jinping and what is being in the make for the 20th Congress of the Communist Party of China for the next year, it is now ideological too, the same way it was between the Soviet Union and the United States. So from this point of view, I would say that hedgers in Russia would be very cautious in taking sides if the coupling takes a resolute final countdown, because I cannot imagine what will happen on the Russian stock exchange if, for example, tomorrow there is a conflict around Taiwan. And this conflict isn't the making if I hear alright, then the example of Hong Kong can show what might happen in the Chinese world, including Taiwan, if this decoupling goes all the way down. And which brings me to Ocus. Ocus is the creation of the new block. For Russia, it's very dangerous because NATO is an opponent and bordering on being an enemy, but it's an understandable enemy. It's an enemy with whom we have relations for all those 50 years. It's an enemy or opponent with whom we have diplomatic relations. We have the Russian NATO Council. It's idle at the moment, but we have this instrument. What will happen with Ocus or something else which would be created instead of unified NATO is a big question mark. If tomorrow, for example, our Polish friends and Baltic states would decide to create the same kind of a caucus on the borders of Russia because of the Ukrainian situation or something else, then it's a real danger. So this is the second danger. China, Russia, China, United States decoupling Ocus, then comes Afghanistan, which was mentioned here too. Afghanistan, I'm not talking and not commenting on how Biden decided to execute logistically this thing. But it's a smart move if you talk about Russian-American confrontation because you give all these Islamic problems to Russian border. Smart move. And you give it partly, of course, to China and Pakistan, but that's beside the point. The most serious thing is happening on the Tajik, Uzbekistan, Turkmenian border, where we have our troops and our military installations. So from this point of view, I think that we are heading into a very serious confrontation before the things will get better. Because when the United States declared that semiconductors will not be given to China at all, finished. We are building that in Wyoming and other states. When the United States said that we are blacklisting Chinese PLCs, publicly owned companies, blacklisting them. On the one hand, and then Chinese replied that no more information will be transferred from China to abroad without our full control, which is the blockade or information blockade and everything else. So it's a beginning of something which we don't know the end of. And Taiwan would be probably one of the testing grounds, but it's a very serious showdown. At the moment Russia will be with China at least verbally, but we'll be hedging its risk. No question about that. So just to end on the bright note, I would say yes, sustainable development concept, if they take it seriously in Glasgow next month. And if we really have an architecture for this sustainable development, decarbonization, green economy and all of that stuff, that gives us the platform for the green diplomacy. No question about that. But before we get that, here I'm with Greta Turnberg. It's 30 years lifespan. All of the tycoons in oil and gas say, okay, okay, 2050, but we will do our profit at the moment. And before we agree on all those transitory taxation of carbon and everything else, we'll blackmail Europe by coal, by gas, by oil, because you need that. You see what's happening with the gas price in Europe. So this is, before we get better, we will get worse. And unfortunately, the blame should be put on both sides. And I would end by saying that my colleague on the right remembers perfectly well when in Brussels we signed cooperation partnership and we thought that we're in the same family. And where we are now, we see. Thank you. Thank you very much, Iro.