 Hello everyone, I am here with political commentator for Real Progressives, Savage Joy Marie, making her second appearance on the Humanist Report. Thank you so much for coming back, Joy. Thank you for liking me enough to have me back. It's absolutely always a joy talking to you. It's always fun to bullshit and talk 2020. And I just kind of wanted to bring you back on to get a sense of how you feel as if the 2020 primary is going. When we talked last time, I believe Beto had just jumped in the race and we were talking about who really is the biggest threat to Bernie Sanders. And now kind of stepping back, watching the primary play out for a couple of months, it seems as if this will ultimately come down to Bernie, Biden and Warren. So let me kind of pick your brain a little bit, because for me, just emotionally speaking, I've gone up and down. There are points where I lost all hope and now I'm kind of riding high on, you know, that Bernie surge after that Monmouth poll. So what is your sense currently in terms of Bernie's chances? I don't like to make predictions personally, but how do you feel in terms of how it's going? Do you think that this trend of him surging will continue? Give me give me your thoughts on this. Well, something I definitely think about is the fact that we have over one million volunteers. I mean, that's unprecedented. So I tell myself that a lot when I get discouraged. We are more we have more supporters than last time, too. We're more well known than last time. Of course, that kind of comes with the bat as well, because he's the sexist that cost Hillary, the rays and all that. But I do have my moments when I'm like, oh, this we're going to lose. They're going to steal it again. I definitely have those moments, but I'm already saving up money to go protest the convention just because I did last time. So I'm already unprepared because I feel like regardless, I'm going to want to protest for something. There's always a reason to be protesting. Yeah. Yeah, there's going to be a reason for sure. I definitely have my moments where, you know, OK, a cool poll came out good. Awesome. But then I also see, you know, there's such an extreme amount of cognitive dissonance when it comes to, you know, giving people the progressive label and they're not things like that. So it's kind of like a day to day thing, but our movements pretty incredible. And, you know, they're they're just beautiful people. And if you tell them you're pissed off, they'll they'll have your back. That's great. And I think that that really is a good focal point, the one million volunteers, because that's something that I don't really think about, that that really is that's massive. That's unprecedented. So, yeah, I kind of agree with you. Like I kind of I think psychologically speaking and protecting myself from being too hopeful, just because 2016 was such a big letdown that it was difficult to recover mentally from that. Like I've talked to people and I didn't necessarily experience this, but who felt like genuinely depressed after everything in that happened. And then you got an extra slap in the face when Trump won. So it's just, you know, it's it's difficult to be optimistic in a very cynical political environment. But another, you know, in addition to the one million volunteers, one thing that I'm seeing is so many progressives. And I know that you talk to them all the time, candidates across the country who are really involved in this movement and they really are the real deal to where before like in 2016, I felt like, well, if Bernie loses, who else? Who, you know, if not Bernie, who there's nobody who wants to fundamentally change the system like him. But now I'm seeing so many people who are eager to get involved that want to change the system like Bernie. So it, you know, there is a reason to be optimistic, but, you know, I'll be cautiously optimistic because we have we've been let down. And here's one thing that's really tricky. And I wanted to get your take on this. And you kind of alluded to this when you were talking about cognitive dissonance with regard to pseudo progressives and whatnot. So as Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren get closer and closer, that to me will be the most difficult argument to sell to just normal Americans, people who aren't savvy, people who don't follow this because you and I like we can easily see the differences between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. There's a bevy of them. But to me, what I'm realizing is just normal people who I talk to, normal in the sense that they don't follow politics as closely and perhaps they don't necessarily consume indie media is that they don't see a real difference between Bernie and Warren. Now, I'm hopeful in the sense that Bernie has gone that extra step to really differentiate himself. So rather than saying, we'll cancel 90 percent of student debt, he's saying, we'll cancel 100, you know, coming out and saying, I support canceling medical debt that's passed to. These are things that he's doing that I think definitely help. But what is your sense in terms of just talking to people? Because you have so many people on your program and you probably have a wider social circle than I do. How can we make this case? And am I correct to assume that, you know, citing differences between Bernie and Warren is going to be a tough job for us? It is. It absolutely is. Because whenever I do that, even if it's in a respectful manner or even if it's literally just providing receipts of past voting records, whereas, you know, she voted for Trump's military budget twice. Bernie voted against it all three times. She's a friend to Israel and his disrespected Palestinians. Things like this, when I when I post these things, like I'm not even like, look at this, you know, and nasty about it. Well, she has two things. A, she's less grumpy and B, she has a vagina. So right there, we have two things going against us right there. It's like if Bernie was a woman, he'd be on top, like hands down. But a lot of people see her as Bernie, but a first woman president. And that's not the case. The two things that I usually use the most are she waivers on Medicare for all all the time. And it's not on her website. And yesterday, she said access to health care on Twitter. And this is ongoing. And then also her stating numerous times that she would take dark money in the general and doing fundraisers for the DNC, all this stuff. Meeting with Neera Tandon, you know, meeting with Hillary, like these. The way I also look at it is if you are truly, truly anti establishment, you really shouldn't want someone who the establishment is propping up because when I see people like Neera Tandon and Zerlina and things like that being like, yeah, Liz, I'm like, oh, no, I know I'm with the right person because they will never praise Bernie. And I'm OK with that. Yeah, totally. It's absolutely like what types of people do you attract? That does matter. It's not everything, of course, but it is certainly a factor in terms of who is and isn't going to really take on the establishment. And if somebody can make establishment figures who are OK with the status quo feel comfortable, that makes me feel uncomfortable. And I do want to say like in the terms of like wanting a woman president, I do understand that. And I don't want to, you know, promote this idea that Elizabeth Warren has an advantage specifically because she is a woman, because I think that being a female candidate is way more difficult. I mean, the standards for women in comparison with men, they're higher. It's more difficult. But what you were speaking to and I totally agree with is that, you know, Bernie Sanders, there's no history to be made. There's not that extra layer of excitement where we if if we elect him, he's Jewish, but at the same time, he's another white man. You know what I mean? So I do understand that. And I'm trying to come from a place of understanding with Warren supporters and let them know that, you know, I get I understand you. You know, it's time it really is absurd that we've had 45 presidents and zero of them have been women, you know, 50 percent of the population. So I absolutely understand that. However, when it comes to policies that absolutely is always going to be my number one priority. And this isn't just, you know, differences that are, you know, we're not splitting hairs, essentially. When you talk about Medicare for all, that's such a huge issue. I mean, this is life and death for people. And Elizabeth Warren, she says the right things when we're all watching, like on the debate stage when she raised her hand and said, I'm going to get rid of private insurance. I was shocked by that. But now, weeks later, when she's saying access to health care, then I just have to wonder, OK, are you even going to fight for any health care reform? Because at this point, one, as you said, she doesn't have this on her website. And I checked yesterday. I keep checking because I feel like maybe I'm missing something. It's not there. And two, like, will you capitulate to the establishment? And, you know, we've seen time and again that Elizabeth Warren, I think instinctually she like she has. How do I word this? She has the right idea. She knows what will and won't work politically and from a policy standpoint. The problem is she's not going to ruffle any feathers and she'll go out of her way to make sure that people in the establishment feel comfortable when we don't want that. Like, I don't hate the establishment just because I'm trying to be this, you know, this outsider who's a contrarian. I don't like the establishment because they are fundamentally antithetical to what we're promoting. They're against, you know, policy that would actually allow us to save the planet, stop medical bankruptcies. So I don't want someone who's going to be friendly with these people. I want someone who's going to say unequivocally, I want to destroy that establishment. So, you know, it's just a matter of like breaking this down in a way that we can sell it to people who don't know what the establishment is. This is just kind of this amorphous idea. And that's where I'm kind of at a loss because it really is tricky. I can easily make the case to anyone that Bernie and Hillary, these are two different, you know, universes. But when it comes to Liz and Warren, you're right. It is more difficult because, you know, her record is not as bad as Hillary Clinton's, but still she's not, you know, anywhere near Bernie Sanders. So yeah, I'm glad that you agree with me on that sense because I feel kind of I'm struggling here. Go ahead. I think, you know, one of the ways I also approach it is she just ran for re-election of her senatorial campaign. Not one of these things was on that platform. That was like nine months ago. Why? Why all of a sudden does she have a plan for that? Did these things not matter nine months ago? Did she have some kind of epiphany? She had and this isn't about Bernie. This is about the principal. Three years ago, she had a choice. She could have stood with someone who really does take on Wall Street, who really does take on big corporations, money, who really does stand with we the people. And she chose someone who called those things ponies. Now she's copying her platform off of that exact person she dismissed. That's a problem. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Absolutely. You know, it shows a lack of political courage. And, you know, there was an article from Politico. I'm not sure if you saw that said she would have been Hillary's VP. She was being vetted. I don't think that Hillary would have ever selected her ever. But, you know, just that that possibility mean, you know, it meant that she had to not endorse Bernie Sanders and just kind of sit out the primary, which that's an issue. So, yeah, it's, you know, this is one of those things that we're going to have to put in the extra effort to really make sure that people understand this. And for people who watch this, because I already can anticipate the criticism, you know, two progressive Bernard brothers are over here criticizing and attacking Warren. This isn't about attacking Elizabeth Warren. Like Elizabeth Warren can be, I think, a crucial ally to Bernie as president. It's just a matter of when we are during the primary and we're weighing out all of these differences, like I want to make sure that people know that there is still the difference between Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. That's not to say that, you know, I would place Warren in the camp with Biden and Hillary Clinton, of course not. But I'm just saying that if you really want fundamental systemic reform, if you want to get us at least on the trajectory of social democracy, there's one candidate who's saying explicitly, I want to do that. And it's Bernie Sanders. And I think that that difference, even though it may seem insignificant to people who aren't very politically savvy, it's everything. It's absolutely everything in this day and age. So let me ask you about Biden. Wait, let me ask you something. Are you still going to vote for Bernie? Am I going to vote for Bernie? What do you mean? Of course I'm going to vote for Bernie. OK, good. Because some people are like, Joy, your husband, let me tell you, he's talking about Warren. And I was like, I'm not interpreting it like that. Oh, like I would vote for Elizabeth Warren over Bernie. It's kind of Bernie. No, absolutely, positively not. Are you serious? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that people like I'm going to divorce him. I didn't get that. No, I've people have said that I've been too soft on Warren when I do videos of her. And I've been critical of her, but, you know, I haven't been aggressive. But there's a difference between, you know, not trying to tear somebody down and being overly toxic, which I feel like I was in 2016. And I don't want to do that. And there is a time and a place where I absolutely will, you know, highlight the differences between Bernie and Warren. But for now, we have the Biden issue. I still think it is strategically savvy for Bernie and Warren to team up at this point in time to take down Biden. And if we can reduce this race down to a Bernie, Warren fight, absolutely, we're going to we're going to highlight those differences. But yeah, I'm 100 percent going to vote for Bernie Sanders. And the people who say that I support Elizabeth Warren, they haven't clearly been watching and following my content. Like I have Bernie Sanders action figures behind me, you know, and a pop vinyl and all of his books. Like I'm basically a Bernie fanboy. But of course, that's not to say that I'm I am unapologetically in favor of him. And I will never question him. You know, it's just he has the right policies. So I'm I'm on team Bernie 100 percent. Now, I will add the caveat that Warren will be someone that if she wins the primary, I hope it's Bernie, I would vote for her absolutely and, you know, not consider voting green. But it doesn't matter because I'm in a blue state. But I would vote for her because I don't think that she is, you know, she's not terrible. She is a solid candidate who I think is running a pretty good and effective campaign, but it's just a matter of, you know, this is the primary. And I'm going to make the case for Bernie. Absolutely. You heard it here, folks, so stop coming down on my man. Hey, hey, it's, you know, it's the primary did not lead to people tearing each other down and spreading rumors about people. It wouldn't be a primary. So this is just part of the course. You know, if you don't make at least 152 enemies during a primary, that is not a normal primary. So, you know, that's I would say per week, per week. Absolutely. I've made so many enemies. But, you know, we're not, you know, we're not doing YouTube videos where we talk about, you know, our purchases. We're not doing mukbangs. We're doing politics and the shit is controversial. So you're bound to make enemies. It's not for, you know, everyone. But I wanted to ask you about Biden because this is this is my read of it. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. I anticipated Biden would fall and he's falling. However, what I'm concerned about is the pace that he's falling. He's not falling fast enough and I'm getting worried. Now, I think he's going to make it to Iowa. He's going to stick around. Can he still win in your opinion? Because at first I pretty much, I said the odds of him winning, you know, irrespective, I was going to say irregardless, that's not a word, irrespective of polling data. You know, it was relatively low. Now, even though he's going down and he's making like 152 gaps per week, another number I just cited, but I like that number. We'll stick with that. Do you think he can win? Because I don't know. I feel like he's probably not going to win. But at the same time, you know, at the back of my mind, it's a possibility that I don't necessarily think we should rule out. I'm with you. I would not be shocked. I'll put it that way. I do can, it terrifies me, frankly. There are three people who just, well, there's a bunch that terrify me. But Joe Biden just, I don't want to go to war with seven more countries. And he's like, I don't feel like you should be able to have access to like the war button, you know, if you can't even remember where you were or remember the name Barack Obama, that kind of scared me. Rap Barack Obama. My boss. Like that. And I don't want to be ableist, you know. And in a way, you kind of do sound that way when you talk about him, you know, saying these things. But it's about whether or not he's competent. And he's not. It turned from, you know, keep your hands off of people. You're a warmonger to, oh my God, he literally thinks things happen that never did. And he's forgetting people's names that he's dropped 20 million times. Like it's scary. And anyone who like, you know, is apologetic for that is kind of, I don't know, maybe shouldn't be able to vote. You know, kind of daunting. It's horrifying. And I'll say this, this is the point that I made. Like it's to the point now where just on a human level, like I feel bad for Biden. Like, you know, forget the fact that he's a former vice president and he's powerful. He has money, whatever. From a human standpoint, it is difficult to see someone mentally deteriorate. Like it's sad to watch, you know, because I mean, I don't necessarily hate Joe Biden. I think he has absolutely egregious policy positions. But just, you know, from the standpoint of him being a human, it's tough to watch. I don't like to see that. Like my dad has dementia. He has early onset dementia. So to see that, you know, politically, it's like, you know, I know firsthand that this is someone who, and I'm not diagnosing Biden before people call me a conspiracy theorist. I'm just saying mental deterioration, you know, it's, we all see it. We all see it. You know what I mean? So I won't speculate and say that he has X, Y and Z conditions. I'm just saying it's tough to see him lose his ability to articulate himself. This isn't me saying Biden is stupid. It's me saying that, you know, this is a medical issue. You know, and I think that you brought up a good point about not being able is because I think that, you know, progressives have actually done a really commendable job at handling this in a way that isn't, you know, we're not just trying to shit on Biden for purposes of political expediency. We can, we don't have to criticize him for that. His policy positions are easy, you know, they're a big enough target. But to see this, first of all, it's sad. Second of all, can you imagine the field day that Republicans will have with this? And I'm not one to say, oh, we'll imagine what the Republicans will do, because technically they can make that same argument about Bernie. They can say, oh, well, they're going to call him a socialist and a communist. But I mean, Trump is already like saying, is this man fit to be president? And if Donald Trump can persuasively make that argument when we can see, you know, his brain melting out of his ears, then there's, there's going to be an issue in the general. And it's just, I see, and I've said this. I think Biden would lose, absolutely would lose to Trump. I agree. I literally bet like every penny I own, which granted is not much of anything. But if I have like a million dollars, I would bet it that Biden would lose. So when you hear people like, oh, you know, we got to get rid of Trump, we got to get rid of Trump, then why are you propping up Biden? Because you can pretty much guarantee Trump, even Biden's own wife made a video. Oh, yeah. Joe might not be the best on healthcare, but he can beat Trump. First of all, didn't you say Hillary could beat Trump? Don't. Just don't. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know. We, the people know, we see who is going to get out there and vote. And he doesn't excite people. He is not bringing people to the polls. He is a male Hillary. He does not excite people. He may be worse than her, actually. Like I think he's probably politically to the left of Hillary slightly, but like he's, there's no, like there's no reason to be excited. Even with Hillary, there was that, you know, aspect of well, this could be the first woman president that in and of itself alone, you know, in a vacuum is good. That's, that's exciting, I guess. You know, it's, it's nice to see history. There's nothing there for Joe Biden. And I love that you brought up his wife. If my wife said something like that about me, I would drop out. That is such a horrible endorsement where you essentially admit, I'm a doctor. You may not like his health care policy. It's kind of shitty. But you know, if you want to beat Trump, then you have to vote for him. Of course, that's what, that's just what you do. You vote for the person who's polling high enough. But I'm with you there in terms of him losing. I would say that he probably has the worst shot at Donald Trump, although I think that it's really too early to predict. This is my read on it. And correct me if you think I'm wrong here. I think his chances are 50-50. And the reason why I say that is because Joe Biden, and I was thinking about this because currently his strategy, as we all know, is to hide, right? Don't get in front of the cameras too much because that drives down your favorability. In the general election, the way that he could pull this off is he can hide and Barack Obama can come out. And this will be Obama 3.0, for example. So that's the only way I can see it. But even in that scenario, if Barack Obama is on the campaign trail 100% of the time, it's still not going to be a foregone conclusion. This will be a difficult race. And even if Bernie is the nominee, I'm not going to say he's guaranteed to win. It's still going to be our best chance. But what we need is for these people who are basing their entire vote on that electability argument to wake up and realize that we are on the Joe Biden Titanic that is sailing straight into an iceberg. And we're going to get former years of Donald Trump and worse 30 years of a strong solid conservative majority on the Supreme Court, which absolutely gives me nightmares. That we're looking at a reversal of LGBTQ rights deregulation to a hyper late-stage capitalist level, the repeal of Roe v. Wade. It's terrifying. This isn't a time to roll the dice. Like we are on the cusp of extinction quite literally. We're facing an apocalypse. Joe needs to drop out. And he's already lost several times. I mean, why are you letting him run again for crying out loud? At what point does his family not say, listen, we gave this a good run? Right? Because it's like you are. I don't know how old he is. He's like 70 or 80 and whatnot. And like Bernie's 10 months different than Bernie. Yeah. So when people call Bernie old, I'm like, at least he still has his faculties. And Bernie has more energy than me. So it's like if Bernie were in that position, it would be more difficult to make the case for him. But with Joe Biden, I just feel like it's almost cruel to make him do this. And I'm sure that this is his doing. It's not like his family is pushing him in front of a camera and saying, run, Joe. But at some point, you have to intervene and say, look, it's not going to happen. Let's just enjoy life. We're rich. Let's buy another mansion. Let's sail on our yacht. Let's enjoy our life and spend time with our grandchildren. I mean, I just I don't I don't get it. And I really, you know, I don't understand the people who are Democratic Party loyalists who are pushing him because if you truly hate Donald Trump, this is just idiotic to push Joe Biden at this point. Yeah. So I'm not sure if you wanted to touch on anything else. I think we covered some of the biggest things that I wanted to talk about. But I want to give you the chance to bring up something because we haven't talked in a while and we don't always get to do this. So is there anything on your heart, Joy? Well, something I did want to talk about is UBI, because I think that there's like just so many misconceptions about it. And before I forget, there's an incredible, brilliant woman named Pavlina Shershiva, I just butchered that. But I'll put a link in the comments. But she's an economic professor and she's done countless shows and, you know, speeches on UBI and FJG, Federal Job Guarantee. So I'm noticing with the Yang Gang, like there's so much misinformation. And, you know, people talking about it, I think are getting their information from Yang's website and from other people online. And a lot is just getting missed. So one of the things about UBI is it absolutely does take away from other social programs. So if you go on unemployment, that's gone, food stamps gone, things like this, all those social safety nets are gone. Furthermore, one of the things that, well, Yang himself, he was asked six questions at the last debate and every single answer, he stated freedom dividend. Every answer. He was on TV two nights ago. They asked him about Israel and Palestine. Oh, my God, it was painful, painful. I saw that. Absolutely awful. You ask him about women's pay, freedom dividend. What does that have to do with anything? Every single thing he answers is freedom dividend. What's going to happen is if you get $1,000 a month, the Republicans in establishment are going to say, you don't need Medicare for all. Just start paying out of the money you already get. And they're going to stifle any kind of progressive, you know, platform because they're going to say, you already get that money. We don't need to pass anything else. And it's going to be an excuse. Also, all that does is give a bandaid because it's not addressing any issues as far as income and wealth inequality, the same, the rich people are getting the same amount as the homeless people. It doesn't address racial disparity, women's pay decrease. It doesn't address jobs. He's very much about, you know, automation is coming yet does not support a federal job guarantee. I don't understand why you are obsessing about jobs yet. You don't support unions, a higher minimum wage. He doesn't even support a fight for 15, a grievous. That's low as it is. So you don't support higher wages, a federal job guarantee unions, you know, equality in the workforce. You're literally supporting nothing having to do with workers, even though the majority of Americans work. And you're just saying, here's $1,000 for every single answer. And that's where the problems with UBI come in. It sounds great, but how is that helping people of color or women or the disabled? It's not at all. It's literally just saying, here's a check, everything's all good. And it's actually, we'll have the reverse effect. And that's why places like Finland and things like that have actually done away with it when they tried it for two years. And they found that it was regressive. It's actually something that just sounds good, but people have to dig deeper. It's very catchy right now. It's easy to sell. It's super simple. Yeah, you know, my thing, I will say this. I'm not closed off to the idea of UBI. It totally depends on how it's implemented, but the most important thing is it's not the end all be all like it is one of a multitude of things that we can do. It's not a necessity and it's not going to solve all of these issues. I think there are some benefits to it. Like I do like the way that Yang sells it as like, you know, if you're just a stay at home parent, this is kind of rewarding you for that work. It gives you the extra cushion to be an artist. Like I think that he makes a really persuasive case for it, but I do agree with you that he loses me when he bases everything off of this. Like this doesn't solve, you know, racial disparities. This isn't going to make people more inclined to fight for climate change because they quote unquote have the boot off their neck. It just so I think that if he really diversified his platform and focused on more, it would be an easier sell. But I understand the premise and how, you know, it sounds great to have that extra thousand dollars per month. Because of course that would help out a lot of people, but it's not going to solve all of our problems, giving us a thousand bucks in the apocalypse. You know, the world's still going to end. We need more than that. And of course that's an oversimplification. I will say this though. So the Yang gang admittedly has kind of grown on me. And I say this after they recently dunked on me, but I thought that their dunking was actually warranted and pretty funny because I was talking about, you know, UBI versus a federal jobs guarantee. And I kind of just spitballed. I pulled like a number out of my ass. Like, what do you think is going to help people more? You know, and this was for argument's sake, because I think that these things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but I said something to the effect of, you know, what's better, 12,000 per year, 1000 per month, or a federal jobs guarantee with 70 to $80,000 per month. Slightly high. And I didn't like think about that. And usually if I say something that's a little bit too hyperbolic, I would catch myself in editing and just clip that out. But I wasn't thinking because I was just trying to make an argument and the overall point was just, you know, it's more money with the federal jobs guarantee. And they roasted me for that. And it was actually fucking hilarious because some of the memes and the gifs that they posted, like we will laugh at you, was actually really funny. But, you know, it got me to realize, oh, okay, I see their point. And if I'm going to argue UBI versus, you know, federal jobs guarantee, first of all, be realistic about it. And second of all, really emphasize, and I thought I made this clear, that these are not mutually exclusive, you don't have to pick either or, in fact, the federal jobs guarantee and UBI, these aren't my go-to issues. Like my number one and two priority, or maybe, you know, their tide is Medicare for All and climate change mitigation, Green New Deal, whatever, you know, saves the planet. So, yeah, they've grown on me because the response when I admitted like, okay, you kind of earned the right to make fun of me was, it's okay, you know, so it's nice to see, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, they do the, well, those aren't the kind of jobs I want. Well, those are just being used as example. I'm sorry, but a lot of them sound privileged as fuck because they're like, you know, I wouldn't work those jobs. Okay, cool, well, you know what? How are you going to save the planet in 11 years if you don't have a federal jobs guarantee? It is literally impossible. We need solar, we need, I mean, Yang literally himself was just on the climate change town hall and he stated, we need to do things across America like add solar panels. Maybe you should support a federal job guarantee because that's the only way it's going to get done. You know, they're not thinking, I've had Yang supporters say, I only pay $450 a month for my rent, so I'm going to take that $1,000 and play video games all day. $450. You know what, that's awesome, good for you, but I'm 40 years old and I have to work and so does most of America. So there, I think it's not just the fact that Yang, you know, pushes UBI 24-7 that bothers me, it's the fact that he says instead of, why can't we just like do more than just have a one-issue candidate? It's not good enough. There are too many people in specific situations. Yes, would $1,000 help, absolutely, but he's talking about the starving artists and things to appeal to people and while it does, not everybody's creative and not everybody's an artist and not everybody is going to want to sit home and paint. Like, not everybody can do that. Some people, okay, so he, people say he supports Medicare for All, he does not. Yeah, I have not seen. I asked him about that on my show, he said public option. Yeah, he's totally okay with keeping insurance companies in the mix. Okay, so we take away Medicare for All, we take away free college tuition and college debt elimination. He's against those as well. We take away the $15 minimum wage. We take away the, like really any other thing that will help people's lives be enhanced, mainly healthcare wage. I mean, is that worth $1,000? Because to me it's not. I'd much rather Medicare for All and, you know, not have like $10,000 in medical bills. And, you know, people who have like 100 grand in college debt, I think would probably get, rather get rid of that than have $1,000 a month. I have almost 100 grand and yes I would. Exactly, exactly. So you're offering breadcrumbs. It's absolute breadcrumbs compared to something like Bernie who's offering down the line. I mean, just, you know, and federal job guarantee, I don't know if you've ever been out of work, but I was recently light off for two months and trying to get a job was, I was so freaking depressed. I was working like literally 15 hours a day sending out resumes and stuff. To have that kind of backup where I wouldn't need to do that sounds utopian. Like, oh my God, like if I lost my job, they'd give me another one. Oh my God, yes. And I think a lot of people are very confused. Even Tulsi Gabbard, she said that people shouldn't have to work certain kinds of job. That's not what it is. That's essentially saying, if this job does not work out, you will be given another one. They don't tell you what job to work. It just gives you that extra safety. That look, you walk in today, you lose your job, you will get a new one. And it's peace of mind for those of us who have mortgages and things like that. I mean, that's, I mean, as someone who's actually like, you know, not living with their parents, like I prefer these things over $1,000 a month. And these things are progress. They're, you know, they're addressing the actual capitalistic parasites that actually caused this austerity to begin with. Whereas UBI is very like, here's your money, shut up, go spend it, help the economy, whatever. Yeah, to me, my priority is crushing capitalism first, you know, before, you know, UBI, where you just get that amount of money in the same capitalist system without making any changes. But like, I will say that there's a degree of respect that I have for candidates who have like one issue, one issue that they really focus on. Like I do respect Yang for, you know, talking about UBI. I respect Marianne Williamson for reparations. But at the end of the day, I want a well-rounded candidate who has a large, you know, robust platform. And we all know who that is. You know, of course, it's Kamala Harris. No, I'm just kidding, it's Bernie. Yeah. But I think that we will leave it there unless you wanted to add anything else. Oh, my debate. Oh, yes, plug your debate. Okay, so two weeks ago, I had a debate. Oh, and by the way, no Yang gangers come at me because I know I'm going to be getting like a hardcore harass because of that and I'm just trying to educate people. So anyway, so two weeks ago, I did a debate with the three Democratic candidates running against Pelosi. So it was really interesting because I got to hear all three perspectives. And for those, you know, across the country, whether you're in California or not, this is the race, besides presidential, that we need to pay attention to because that girl needs to be out. So it was Tom and Agatha and Shahid. And so I had them all on and we had a great debate. So if you want to check it out, it's Real Progressives on YouTube. If you could follow us, that'd be awesome. Yes, Real Progressives on YouTube. You also have a very large following on Facebook. So check them out there as well. And as always, Joy, it's a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for coming back on the program. Of course, we will probably touch bases before the election is over. We still, we have a long ways to go. And I'm already tired, but I mean, I'm exhausted. But of course, you know, that's what we're here for. You know, we can offer each other, you know, therapy in the form of just griping. And I'm down for that anytime. So thank you so much, Joy. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Mike. Always a pleasure. Absolutely. Same.