 Os ydych chi'n gweithio'r cwestiynau o'r panlyniad? First of all, thank you very much for coming here. In 2019 I was invited as a keynote speaker to a major science conference on climate change in Prague, and I got to be able to challenge the UN modelling system. For my question is this. Why are you saying follow the science? As if the science is not corrupt. As if the UN is a source of truth and wisdom. We know from Covid that it's very far from that. And yet that is what's happening. There are lots of sciences plural, and lots of scientists plural. And what we have seen is that the intergovernmental panel on climate change has created an establishment view of climatology. So I mentioned in my talk that that has been somewhat carbon reductionist. It's therefore downplayed the role of deforestation in nucleating cooling clouds and how that's a global phenomenon. I would add there's something else. And you probably know this then because you've worked on this. To try and create a simple narrative with the idea that the politicians and the world needed a simple narrative. We've been encouraged to think of carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere like a thermostat. If you turn them down you'll turn down the temperature. That's not true. Carbon dioxide warms the atmosphere but so do many other factors. And the crucial thing that has been overlooked by establishment climatology is what I call, and I think a few other people call, the carbon lag. So prior to humans screwing with the atmosphere the last 200 years and putting 50% as much CO2 in the atmosphere, world temperatures changed. And when temperatures went up the carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere typically rose two to 300 years later. Different theories on that. One idea is that a warming ocean would release more carbon dioxide. Where I depart fundamentally from the climate hoaxes and the stories in light newspaper is to say that that is somehow good news. It's not. It's terrible news. It means that not only might we have some committed warming from existing CO2 in the atmosphere that hasn't fed through in its total warming effect, we also might have some committed carbon from existing levels warming. So we're not in control. There's been this narrative from establishment climatology that we're in control and therefore you often hear people say every little bit of carbon dioxide kept from the atmosphere is a good thing. It would be lovely if that was the case but it's not true. We don't know. So we should really try and we should try and get as much carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere as possible. We should look at what to do with methane. We should reforest. We should do agroforestry. We should even have an open-minded conversation about certain types of geoengineering in case what we've seen in the last two months with world temperatures and sea ice loss which is quite scary. For me I'd like us to be more curious and less tribal and I've been on the receiving end of very tribal behaviours from establishment climatologists who thought how dare you. I'm a professor of sociology. What on earth are you doing? Talking about, about five years ago, talking about climate change and critiquing the models and so on. So I am many other people are not seeing there's a monolithic science from established institutions. I am not seeing there is a lack of politicking and self-interest of institutions. No, there is. But where I end up is that actually it's actually potentially more scary than what we're being told. But that's my view, that's my interpretation and I understand if other people come to other conclusions. I want to just check if anyone else wants to say anything in response to your question about why we sort of upholding science as one monolithic thing. Thank you. So I don't want to say anything about the science. I'll leave that to you. No, thank you for speaking up. I just wanted to say something about our wonderful community and our healing spaces and our shamanic teachings and offerings. Yes, we've been doing all that and it's a great place for it. What I'd like to see is it offered further to other communities in our community that don't usually get to have those very needed therapies and also a lot of it is done for tourists, a lot of it is done for a lot of money. It would be nice if that was the norm because part of the system that is breaking is a health service, is our mental health service. I mean, say what you will about it and how it actually was in the first place. But these things are really needed right now more so than ever. So it will be wonderful if these things were made more freely. I just want to say I'm slightly surprised by the question because unless I'm mistaken nobody said follow the science and nobody used the term net zero today. And what I've heard from my panellists and from myself is a lot of story about community and a lot of story about breaking out of paradigms and a lot of story about understanding that the things that we have to do are going to have to be plural and diverse. So I'm almost surprised that that question came up at all. I feel like we've been almost at a different conference because that wasn't what I heard. Let's chat after and understand how we came to sort of very different understandings of that. Extinction Rebellion came from a prayer, from my point of view, like as a co-founder source person for the movement it came from praying with the medicines and being in that way, you know, that's been part of the foundation, something that gets rejected in the movement as being to woo woo is the thing that gets said, you know. It's part of the soullessness, I think, but also we do, that's why I enter the shamanic through the science. I think it's a thing. I have a PhD in molecular biophysics so I can get away with doing a bit of science to look like I know what I'm on about. Anyway, the other thing is, I appreciate Dougal Hine's new book. I've forgotten the title of it, but he talks very much about scientism as a phenomena within the climate movements. I think if you haven't read it, it'd be music to your ears. I think it might feel like a repair. I really sort of think of that phrase, listen to the science as being a Greta Dunberg phrase. But I would also say that part of what Extinction Rebellion has done and what I was alluding to today is to use some simple language and some simple demands at times to try and cut through something. What I hear in that is saying to the system, can you stop lying to yourself? That's what I hear in that. It's not a sort of celebration. As a person who's been a scientist, I know what goes all the silo in, all the bullshit. It's a working-class woman science. I've got scars, right? I don't hear it being a full-on celebration of science. I hear it saying, you're just on a basic level, the story of modernity and progress and all the rest of it is based on this idea that we're rationally thinking about everything. I just hear Greta Dunberg saying, you're just a bunch of fucking bullshitters. Just even listen to the science, would you? That's how I take it. One of things Extinction Rebellion did and it used to make me cringe, but it was saying with this movement they were doing this for the first time, they were on the shoulders of the anti-road protests and the anti-wracking. There's arrogance that comes with success and there's hubris. I think people were on the receiving end of that who've been, you know, our movement was grown from the tireless work or probably tireful work of many people over many years in the Green Movement in the UK. It was birthed from that and it can be quite extractive that as well. So anybody who's felt harm from that and sidelined and XR sucked up all the oxygen, well get over it XR because that's happening with JSO now anyways. Anyway, it really is about coming back together, breaking together, isn't it? So lots of blessings on your life. And I just want to welcome what you said about non-hierarchical ways of gathering and of course this, you know, you're all seated there and apart from the session we just had, it's been quite traditional mode of gathering and yeah, I fully support you mentioned sitting in circle. So initially when I came to the conclusion I had five years ago, for me it was all about that and I haven't mentioned the deep adaptation forum but that kind of philosophy non-hierarchical, open-hearted, open-minded connection with other people is central to the forum and the modalities it's developed and so if you're interested in that would you put your hand up? So Kim does quite a bit of work with the deep adaptation forum and so sitting in the front here if you're interested then please talk to Kim. What would each of the panonists reclaim to embellish their joy of living? I did it actually, yeah. I am in a place in my life where I feel like there actually is nothing left to reclaim in quite literally carving out a job, a work, a role single-handedly that only grew because of community support which was just this wonderful dynamic and by doing that I reclaimed my freedom I reclaimed a sense of purpose I reclaimed a community I reclaimed a great joy in my work, in my speech, in my writing by putting all of me forward into this, I used to use the word fight but that doesn't really seem right anymore into this way this way of being and this way of being together it is profoundly joyful even though I spend all day thinking about the world ending, you know? So I can only say if any of you feel in your heart that there is something to reclaim do it, it's real good. Thank you for reminding me actually I reclaimed my town I reclaimed my town and from the jaws of some tiled old thinking to be able to hold it and to help be the Ellen of the Ways and to find a way out and I get to sit in meetings that I chair so I get this control no more living in fields in wet tents being shouted at now I have access all areas past in this town and I get to choose it I get to choose the plan Thank you, I'm living my thank you Thank you so much for letting us have already reclaimed it cos it's like, I'm trying to think of something and it's so distracting as my dog's crying he wants to be on stage so if you let him go he'll just run there we go he's reclaiming his freedom someone's going to have to pass him up there we go, Shambo, well done so funny story, I didn't actually like dogs before I got one but they're pretty amazing and people in England don't know about Chihuahuas I always wondered why Hollywood stars that could have everything have them but it's because they're super intelligent and sweet and I'm really quite amazing so a little shout out for Chihuahuas there cos when you walk Chihuahuas around the south west of England people do say things like oh look she's walking her rabbit so for me I'm going to say that the thing that I've reclaimed is beauty and beauty is a value and I really feel that beauty is it's really the highest of the spiritual values and ways of being that we have and we all know what that real experience of beauty is when we see a sunrise or a sunset when we look into the eyes of someone that we love when we have those moments that are just so transcendental that you feel all of that aliveness in you and when I called my podcast the future is beautiful that's what I was speaking to that it doesn't really matter the what it doesn't matter what happens the stories it's are you able to experience the beauty in that moment and there is so much beauty in grief there is so much beauty in death there is so much beauty in these moments of transition and for me that's been the biggest reclamation if I was to give you a list of all of the things that have happened in my life especially in the last three years you'd just be like how is this woman smiling and it's because of that it's because of that reverence for beauty it's because of that deep respect for being alive and what a gift that is and then with that being able to really experience something beautiful and powerful in all of the moments and in all of the shadows and so yes let's reclaim beauty my partner's going to cringe has anybody heard me call myself Gail Oversharing Bradbrook God for short it turns out it turns out it's a trait turns out it's a trait so did I mention the menopause already one of the things in my life there was a lot of unkindness and it's taken me a long time to actually really know what I like because there was so much wanting to seek approval and to feel safe in the world so it makes you do a lot of strange things I was like a real proper girly swat I missed a Nirvana concert to revise once when there weren't even exams happening anyway as part of this transition process that I'm in I thought I'd quite like to understand my own neurodivergence so I'm about to come out as somebody who's probably autistic not very who knows right I don't know how that stuff works but it was just like dull when you start watching the videos and tick tick tick and one of the things with autistic people is that we have our special interests and don't get in the way of our special interests I think like mine just happens to me be with the work that I do and like if I want to talk about something I fucking want to talk about you can't shut me up and that's an issue actually and if I don't want to talk about it in that moment I don't and so it's been really helpful to understand that it's apparently a lot of things that middle-aged women because we do this thing called masking we've sort of learned how to hide these traits so I am reclaiming this I don't really know what the thing is whether it's ADHD or black who knows it's just another label isn't it but I'm neurodivergent I fucking love my brain actually and when I meet up with people you can just boom boom boom with stuff it's great and you just tell me to shut up when it's gone over the top and it's a bit too much over sharing my partner's really great in bed I think I want to reclaim the idea that I can be small like I've grown up in a culture where success, impact, scale and wow it's led to an interesting life bold decisions maybe courageous decisions crazy work hours no work-life balance at times but yeah I think that's been the enemy of me just enjoying being alive so when I talked about the identity issue and relinquishing these scholar and stuff and being a crap musician and a crap farmer it's reclaiming that it's okay just to do something which might seem not particularly that consequential but that's okay so yeah that's what I'm left with and not being sat in front of a laptop for a year might mean that everything changes in my life who knows my neighbour was collapsing I had to cancel my day and spend a day with her and I was so angry I was so angry and I spent the whole time trying to stay calm and kind and thoughtful with this person who was falling apart because she'd been lost a carer she had no carer at the weekends she couldn't get a carer and she just sits in her house she used to be an artist and she can't do it anymore it's just like this is what it means to me collapse is happening everywhere there are so many people that need help so if there are any advice it's just such a challenge I don't know what you want to say thank you so much for bringing care into the space isn't it funny how we have to have private industry for this thing that just is so human and really needs just to be part of life so I've been caring for my mum for the last three years and we have some resources so we're able to have support and yet it's still a lot especially when you're dealing with some of the really horrific illnesses that are becoming more prevalent now such as Parkinson's and dementia and to me it really points out I love these moments with my mum it's quite a it's a really special thing to be with someone in that level of vulnerability and watching someone's ego and body dissolve in different ways and their brain it's an experience it's moved me more than most things than anything else really in my life to be part of this experience and it's really hard to find people to talk to about it and all of the services are so overrun and in my own life it's also I want to have a child but I'm looking after my mum who's only 76 and 940 and I haven't had a child yet and I'm just finding myself completely caught in all of these timelines being wrong because we have stopped doing things how humans always did them in certain timelines and also because so many of us move from place to place and so we don't have the ancestral support systems that may have been in place because my parents were immigrants it means that there are no aunties and uncles and all of that kind of thing and so I share all of that just to say it's really broken and I feel like this is one of the I've done things in my life and been on stages and TEDx talks and been part of glamorous things and this is quite honestly the most profound experience that I've ever had and a lot of my friends they'll be like why are you doing this to yourself and I feel like it's so innate for us to want to love each other and care for each other and to be with each other and we are at a time where we're so under resourced and also as you were saying Indra where there's money it's not necessarily to the right kind of treatments or things that might actually help people and you were saying about Vanessa saying that it will show up in our mental health and our physical health and one of the things I had last year was in Somerset because I was living in a farmhouse and they sprayed glyphosates on the fields I call around the house and the house was mouldy and maybe because I was run down from caring for my mum blah blah blah blah blah it just affected me and so we are really living in a time where it's coming from so many different angles and I don't really have the answer to this one except Jeremy Corbyn says we need a national care service like we really do but how is that possible when our health service is cumberling and so I don't really know how we do it on a level that isn't kind people doing what they can for their neighbours and knowing that that's not really ever going to be enough so yeah that's so I just want to say just like a bit of solidarity to everyone that is that is caring for someone or that will one day find themselves in that situation because it's not always something that you plan for and that yeah this is one of the ways we create a more beautiful world Can I just jump in quickly thank you for reminding us about things being connected so the housing system so we don't have the space to care for our elderly and equally and I grew up in this town and when I got to a certain age after school I couldn't afford to live here so I had to move away and this is what happening so it's that I'm not saying we can't all be community without our children and our parents but it is a huge part of it not actually having that connection I will just say also another one's shut down it wasn't a great shakes my daughter worked there and yeah there were various things that were exposed as not being great you know people are overworked doing night shifts and there is the capacity these things are done for profit there will be a huge need very soon it's coming and I think finding out what we actually do have is a good step let's find out the provisions that we do have and the services we do have and it's also about networking these together and so yeah just find out the stats if you like what we have what we need what is missing I think would be a great start and it's a system that's very financialised Nick Shaxons book the finance course uses the care system as an example of what Jen's talking about in his book about the money power and how it's destroying the planet that's one of the ways Charles Eisenstein tells this story of the guy I can't remember his name who started Adbusters and was involved in starting the Occupy movement seeding the Occupy movement so I've done all this amazing stuff great things in the world I met him and said what are you doing and he said I'm caring for my Diane Antey and he didn't know how long that was going to take years I think and it was that in the way Charles Eisenstein talks beautifully about I think he's really speaking to morphic resonance if people know Rupert Sheldrake's work that we can think we're doing these grand things that are indicating especially about profile and you've got to really mind the addiction to that stuff by the way it is a force and it's when we're in love when we're acting on love and what that does in the world and how we don't even really understand that now what does that do in the world when you act genuinely on love with nothing, it's not with a reason and I said this, Guy's Antey was going to die that was the deal and I think we because the world at large does not honour our caring work I'm among two boys and we have to find that for ourselves and honour that for ourselves first main point and each other that being led by love is what we've been talking about today and then the second thing because I related to your story our colleague, Skeena Rathaws, not here today and I worked very closely with her and she made a choice to take some time out lots had happened in her family not to speak about her, not here too much so it was already a thing I wasn't going to get to work with her for a while and I'm very very blessed to be in the women's networks in Stroud we have this thing in Stroud sisterhood on Facebook, it's got 3,000 women in it and the women's networks are very powerful in Stroud in terms of people taking care of each other reaching out for each other and I don't quite know if there's a model but it's really just about the intention and what's happened around my friend Skeena she's just taken care of her and it's been a really thing to watch and participating because Parmi just went perhaps like you did that day when your neighbour had a collapse like nothing I need type of thing part about what happened for me and it's been a joy to give in to that it's been a joy because it's been shared and that's going to be the way any villages of, interconnected villages of sharing and support I think that's what's going to emerge through the intention of love, through connection through what we know with our female bodies and I'm not sidelining the men here I'm just saying that that's the rising feminine in all of us I just want to say quickly that the one resource we all have all the time is the power of story and how we choose to see events as they unfold and by reframing them how we then choose to engage with them so my mum and I historically had a pray back in tough time and when I was a teenager and a young woman in my early 20s I decided that I would never take time out of my life to help her when she needed me because she was never there for me when I needed her about three months ago she broke both her wrists and her shoulder and luckily for her I've done a lot of therapy and an ayahuasca trip so there I was and I found myself it was only six weeks that I was there for her while a cast were on and I was working full time and looking after her and actually doing Jim's course at the same time and it wasn't always easy but I was so damn happy to be doing it like wow cool, look how far we've come look at how far I've come look at what we can do together how lucky am I that I have the kind of work that means I can run up to Scotland and just do that for six weeks or work odd hours to fit stuff in how lucky am I that I have a parent who's willing to accept help when she needs it how lucky am I to be the kind of person that is willing to try and re-narrate her life in order to do these things because the word that stood out to me was angry and I'm no anger I've been very very very angry and we always have to ask ourselves why and that's maybe the one question that can set us free because we always have a choice even when it feels like we don't because if we go into a situation and we feel like we don't have choice we will do it but we will feel resistance and that creates anger but when something happens in front of us and we kind of have no choice but to engage but you still choose to with all of you with every single part of you then that can release anger then that creates a sense of self empowerment and I think that's a resource we all have all the time through the power of how we choose to see ourselves and the world and if there's one thing we need right now at stories of how we all have the capacity to love each other and how wonderful it is to love each other today OK, we've only got half an hour left and we've got some questions to go through here it may be that these are a little bit quicker because people just have things they want to say so, Kimberly When I walked into that room with the flipcharts and I wrote it on the flipchart and it's already been mentioned quite a lot but I wanted us to really focus on reclaiming our joy my two favourite quotes I have them on my wall at home one is the Be White one which you probably all know these every morning I awake torn between the desire to save the world and the desire to savor it and then I realise that if I don't ever savor it there's kind of nothing worth saving and my second quote is Wendell Berry Be joyful though you have considered all the facts and the reason I think it's so important I spend a lot of time working with burned out activists who have forgotten their joy and I think when we reclaim that for ourselves we don't burn out or we burn out less and this is not to say grief isn't important as well because it really is but so is joy, thank you Do you have any suggestions about how we can avoid the growing grassroots radicalisation being hijacked by the institutions like the government but what institutions do you prefer? Just quickly you're just going to keep moving every time because this is what's so great about the movement because the movement pushes and then government and institutions go oh shit, that's what people want we'll move a little bit towards it it's like a dance, every time institutions move we've got to move further further to the left, further to radical further to everything so it's recognising that dynamic and using it almost in a way to help shape part of the direction that we go in because there's no way to actually impinge them from doing that the only choice that we have is how you respond Follow the money just educate people to follow the money if there is money behind it it doesn't come from a good place so I kept talking about the social economics that this is social economics nobody here is being everyone is giving their time voluntary this is how we bring it together so if it's got that in its base then yeah, it's help people thank you for bringing the question I over the last few years became more and more concerned at what some people call techno-authoritarianism techno feudalism global American big tech corporations controlling our lives we've all sort of just gone along with it with convenience, with mobile phones and electronic payments and so on and on so yeah, that was as you say Gail, was a big motivation for me to write everything that's in the second half of my book and to actually talk about a freedom-loving environmentalism people's environmentalism, not a corporate one not an elitist one and in saying that I worked for 23 years thinking that what we needed to do to achieve sustainability was to engage business and banks and get people to do the right thing for the wrong reasons and and I talk about it in the book what I've discovered is the one thing worse than the elites at Davos not taking climate change seriously is the elites at Davos taking climate change seriously so I've had to so my journey has got me to the point of saying let's not end up just squabbling about what I call the fake green globalists and let's just get on with building our own people's led environmentalism and so yeah, that's now where I'm at and that's why I'm so pleased to hear today about all the different local initiatives that are happening in Glastonbury I'm welcoming of the the skeptical view of authority and corporations and how they might be using a sense of climate crisis for their own ends I welcome that, yeah absolutely but I've won that to lead somewhere our own agenda not just complaining about yeah and not getting anything done I have a question about what else fits alongside what you've had to say today so the question was does the futures that you are envisaging does it include washing machines does it include tractors does it include email because I have the perception that one of the biggest features in women's liberation in the last 60 years was the invention of the washing machine so I'm wondering where the future of all of that systemically fits into how many people will be left supported on this planet as we go through the transition can I ask you back to the microphone the reason, thank you the reason I'm asking you back is I want to explore why we want answers to that question is it because we feel we get a sense of almost like safety from having a rough idea of what's going to come or is it because we've got a sense of that what you've just described that can inform what we do now for me I've decided not to care about the question you raised I don't know and I can still find things to prioritise and work on now I am changing my own life with the idea that global supply chains will break down and all the things you mentioned will not be available anymore within I don't know how long but if I'm around in 10, 20 years then I guess they're not around then but I don't need to be right on that and I don't need to be confident about my vision on that for me to choose to do the things I'm doing so I'm interested in when you ask that question why because I love all the bottom up sense that exists in everything that's been shared today but I'm concerned that when we have whatever it is 25 million people living in London when we have people all over the world in large cities when we have whatever it is, 8, 9 billion people on the planet who are supported by agricultural systems which are broken in all sorts of ways but which they nevertheless depend on there's an implication in ok, not caring and accepting that people will die that's kind of where we are but I also feel there's something that we need to hold in a not either or space around how we are with technology and even how we are with corporations that may make a huge difference to whether we end up with 3 billion, 2 billion or 1 billion I am not positing the idea of us turning towards the local and self-sufficiency as meaning that we completely neglect global policy for example I think we do need a conversation involving the bottom up about possible future geoengineering to try and repair the Arctic in order to stabilise the jet stream in order not to have a multi bread basket failure which suddenly means we've got a billion starving, billion more hungry people yes, so I'm open to that absolutely and I encourage that we talk about that as well I am a bit jaded from that because I realise such conversations are hijacked by establishment interests however, I appreciate people who've got the stomach for that fight and they'll try and advance non-compromise non-bort-off contributions to working out what to do at an international intergovernmental policy level on things like the Arctic I think it's not going to work and I think we are going to have a population collapse that doesn't mean I don't care Thank you, can I jump in a brilliant question and yes, basically when we lived on camps we had bicycle powered washing machines there are ways of doing it and I love that you framed it in the way that because women do mostly the washing so yes, in that way I can't see that really changing that's my pessimism so even if we're talking about it theoretically, yes so global south so in the time that we do have possibly not enough electric however much electric is used in washing machines because it's about heating the water so different ways of heating the water different ways of spinning the machine there are hand-held ones as well personally I'd still like dishwashers because it actually uses less water than a whole household and yes, it does free up so there are ways round and there will be because I have lived on camps where if you don't do the washing up with a very high temperature even if you keep your own cup, your own spoon it's amazing actually how difficult that is yeah, the tummy bugs just go round so it's a thing of planningness so I would like to say yes, if that's okay but in the future yes, we will just be a little bit more creative with it let's hear it for pedal powered dishwashers it's a bit phallic, isn't it? it wasn't intended that way and it was given to me by my ex-wife it's a penis, come on it's got a little bit of hair don't just make it's mane come on it's been my brain on my eye yeah, 3D printers it's the least phallic t-shirt in the room it's got a penis in the middle of it anyway okay, we'll talk about it later not mixed curse by Amitav Ghosh it's I think a brilliant book and one of the things he's talking about in there is we sort of have this sense that the collapse will ease more readily here than has happened though it's already happened in other places other places have worked it out we're a lot more dependent on yeah, many of us I'm sure not in Glastonbury but don't know how to eat from nature and to get herbs from there and so on but Ben T from Ben's activists know how to eat because I had 28,500 pounds and that's all it was I had a 10 acre field and I turned it into a wildlife sanctuary and I lived on it and I lived there for 20 years off grid and what difficult choice are you going to make to change the situation to the benefit of you and your community around you what difficult choice are you going to make well that's a question for everyone in the audience isn't it really because it's a good question to take with us so I'm going to write it down thank you to finish up by telling us all what the money that's going to the Glastonbury mental health network that's going to be spent on thank you I've been trying to get the whole of the high street trained in mental health first aid and sign posting because there's a lot of people who are working in shops, cafes, pubs who are doing front line work and I know as well as you do that mental health is not real it's health, it's community and we set up as a mental health charity but essentially we've been creating community with events and we're training so your pounds have meant that we can now do the high street and that's going to make Glastonbury a completely different place so thank you it's 20 past panel we said we'd finish at half past you know that we're going to go up to the white spring for 6 o'clock any concluding remarks thank you for approaching me to do this here and thank you for pulling this off it's been a wonderful pleasure I couldn't have gone better I've learned a lot and I feel great gratitude it was my intention at the start of the day to feel gratitude and so I do so thank you and to thank everyone else who made this happen and what about my fellow speakers eh can I say what an incredible privilege it has been to have shared a stage I was just stepping in or lovely rattling who couldn't make it today but it's been such an honour I feel I am in such good friendship and to everybody here thank you so much I feel a real friendship a kindredness and a kind of resilient future it gives me hope thank you so much I've had a really good day, thank you I just can't let your questions go because it's like you know anyway do people know that you can buy a land with pensions by the way because pensions are as our Andrew Medhers points out an act of fraud in the modern day that's one of the things that I've made a choice to do and it probably means that I've got no financial backing really anyway that thing and then the other thing that I wanted to share I suppose is a closing thing is this next month I mean caught finally for taking a hammer and braddle to the department for transport and the way the sorry it's not really one of those closing remarks is it but I just want to say it because I can't help myself anyway it is a bit of a moment of making a decision and it will be made in the moment how it goes but what's happening to climate activists who are in court at the minute is that for some of us they're saying well first of all you can't protest they've sown up all the laws there and then when you get into court you don't have any defences people may know that the simple act of holding up a sign reminding jurors that they have a right to act on their conscience a sign that's on the wall of the old Bailey was referred by the old Bailey to the Attorney General for review to see if it's perverting the course of justice there are legal systems under real threats at the minute and if Jim does a lot in his book on critical theory sorry everybody's knackered again they just want to go home or the whitewell and you sown one again what can we do to help you basically what I'm trying to say is as part of my submissions in this particular case we've drafted the law of conscientious protection people know Polly Higgins she drafted the law of ecocide but the other thing she brought forward she was a friend of mine blessed to have her in my life was the more of conscientious protection or the idea of conscientious that's what we are we all say we're serving a higher law this whole thing about coming from our communities is a practicality for me this next month the same to this judge and the prosecution we've drafted it that's the more that I'm serving it's just like an obvious power game and you listen to African jurors consoles saying when everybody says follow the law you say who's law is it where did it come from so it probably is going to get me in jail this thing it might not and it would just be it's like a part of the purpose what I'm hearing is it's a way to say we don't have a functional democracy so I've got like a little telegram chat that's on my Twitter I am in that thing if anybody wants to know what's going on follow that there's a moment it's not all about being out there and being visible but that probably is a moment where that might help thank you I'm not going to jail but I have a little thing to ask of you I'm going to do some self promo promo of Amisha as well because she hasn't grabbed the mic we both have podcasts all that you are and Planet Critical all that we are and Planet Critical please sign up go and listen enjoy them, learn, reach out to us and let us know what you think and how you feel it's been a pleasure to be here with you all today thank you very much for your time and I'm going to pass the mic I have to say when I woke up this morning I was like God I've got to spend the whole day in doors with a bunch of doomsters I don't know what that would be but I've thoroughly enjoyed it and I've really enjoyed meeting all of you and all of the little one to one moments we've had as well so thank you for inviting me and for sharing this day together just real gratitude for each of you for your courage and for what it is that you're bringing to the world I haven't had that space for you all to share and I also know that everyone in this room has something profound to offer and could be sitting here when we are different of any sort often when we just share we trigger so much and then it gets taken in all kinds of other ways because we're all traumatised beings living in this system and so yeah I just wanted to say that that's I think part of what we all need to to recognise somehow that yeah like where can we find those points where we come together and one of the places that we come together is that we are all imperfect human beings amazing thank you so much for having me in Shambu