 Seven o'clock. We already called the meeting to order at six. And is there any public comment for items not on the agenda or additions or changes to the agenda. All right, hearing none. Sandra, I put you on first, I think this should be pretty quick. Yep. I was looking at a meeting. And I guess they're doing this audit you think to like every town in the state. Well, what it looks like to me is the communication from the Vermont treasure state treasurer's office indicated that they have to be compliant with gas be auditing procedures. And this is an audit of the various entities in the municipal retirement system is, is compliant with those accounting best practices. So that's why they're doing it. Well, and they had the census thing that you said you already completed right. So they, we do not have find that many very many financial policies and procedures. So, in the absence of those in the to do list. They asked for the census data questionnaire to be completed. Yeah, you had a chance to look at that it's really quite simple in our case. Yeah, I did look at it. Most of the answers were basically one words. And you know how often is payroll processed is one of the first questions well it's processed weekly. Who enters the payroll data Sandra fervor, who determines eligible compensation versus ineligible comp compensation at what he how did the sand river first to the personnel policy. So, a very. It's not complicated it took me. I, you know, I'm not going to make it hard it took me about 15 minutes. Yeah. And then, of course, we use a an accounting system, Nimrick, which I am able to run reports and I was able to provide all of the quarterly reports that I rely upon and which are generated by that system so it's hard to see spit to sign the letter of engagement, which is at no cost to the town. I will ship everything out to them. And we'll have completed that part of the, that part of the audit now remember also Sullivan and powers audits us and they audit our beamers yearly. Yeah, so this is, you know, they're they're actually covering old graph. They would have done this with us. Anyway, it should be fairly, I would think it would be fairly quick for them to do this. Well, the, the most significant questions of this audit were, were there any status changes and it just so happens in FY 20, there were no retirements, no terminations, no changing from part time to full time and vice versa. So, you know, we just had a very stable workforce for that entire audited period so this this was very simple. Okay, so does anybody have any issue or questions about this audit that we don't have a choice in. Okay, so would the board authorize me to sign this letter so we can get it out. And then I think it. Yeah, I would make that motion if it takes emotion. Yeah, we need a motion. Okay, anything else on this select board. Do you want to ask Sandra or comment on Karen husky. Join the meeting. All right, so I think we're, I think we're done with this. Okay. All right, thank you Sandra. Thank you. Oh yeah, we got to take a vote. Oh, all right. All right, let's go through the screen. Hi, Sharon. Hi, John. Yes. Hi. Okay, and I'm an eye. All right. So now we can talk about. Thank you, everyone. Good night. Good night, Sandra. Thank you. Madam chair. Madam chair before we engage in this, just want to make clear the folks that are attending tonight. I did. Allow Elizabeth's. Courses to be boarded at our place. And to the extent that I did that, it may create a perception of a conflict of interest. So I will not be making any decisions as a select board member. But if I participate tonight, it may be, I may participate tonight, but it would be a size. Common citizen. Okay. Thank you for that. Yep. Now I don't see is, did you say Karen has he was on. Yes, she is. Yeah. Oh, by phone. Okay. Gotcha. Do you may, do you have a question? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, by phone. Okay. Gotcha. Do you may mega? I assume you're here for the same issue. Um, can you hear me? Yeah. Oh good. Um, actually I was here for the damn. I was asking if that was. 815. Is that accurate? Yes, right around there. It might be a little sooner and I feel a little later. Okay. But actually I am curious on this. This is just a coincidence. I don't know. I'll stay here. Okay. Yeah. Denise, the, the horse item was actually the roaming horses was scheduled to start at seven 10. Well, it's almost, it's almost seven 10. So. No, I know. I was a scanning for whether there was like a 90 second item on our agenda, but I didn't find one. So. No, and we're not. And last I knew. So. Well, maybe we can have people start introducing themselves. Yeah. I'm up that way. And nothing of substance would be covered. Right. So. Karen, you're here for. The roaming horses vehicle. Do you know of anybody else that. Is going to join you on this, just for this discussion. I. I actually don't. I was thinking Jamie was, but I haven't heard back from her. I thought those two from the emails. Well, you guys can hear me. Yeah. In the meantime, Cliff, maybe you could call up the Williamstown. Ordinance. Cause sometimes it takes a minute to. Get a document called up. So that'll buy us. Seven and nine. Denise, whether did you get confirmation, whether that's been formally adopted? No, I didn't. I'm going to have to follow up. I did ask. The Williamstown ACO, you know, sort of what prompted. Them to do this. And I couldn't find on their website. Where there was a signed ordinance and that's, so that's why I reached out to see if they had signed it. And if they didn't, why didn't they. So I'm going to have to do another follow up. With them. So this is there. It's actually, it's, it's actually. I think pretty well done. This ordinance. Yeah. And then there's the process for adoption, which I sent around to everybody. That we've all been through. You know, before there's. It becomes effective so many days after the select board adopts it. And I'm not. I'm not knowing for sure tonight whether. Tonight I wanted to see if the board wanted to go forward with an ordinance. And then we could put it on the next agenda. We would want our town attorney to review. A draft ordinance. And then put it on the next agenda. To review and then perhaps adopt. And then there's a 45 day. Waiting period before it becomes final and during that. During that window. Another group of residents could petition to not have the ordinance. I don't see that happening, but it's, it's not a good time to go forward with that. I think we'll have to follow the guidelines. But we would start. No, we wouldn't adopt this ordinance to serve without a discussion. We'd want to go through it. Right. Right. Right. So that's what I'm going to look. There was some talk about leashing your dog when you're walking a dog. I misunderstood it. We've had that conversation before. Right. We have a, well, we have a dog ordinance already. A dog in wool hybrid ordinance. Mentioned that dogs. Right. On a lead rope or leash. But that doesn't say it just says running at large means that an animal, it doesn't say dog. Okay. But the document refers to domestic animals. Right. So, so we kind of talked a little bit about this. Coming at it from a different angle. Two meetings ago, right? Was it. Or maybe a little longer. Not that long ago though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, I think we, on something of this. Of this magnitude. That we. I mean, to me, it's obvious that we need to move forward on. You know, taking a careful look at this ordinance and consider how. How we might adapt it. If at all. To, to meet our needs. And I would want to do that. In partnership with. Some of the. Folks in town who have been. The concern citizens. Yeah. The concerns. Concern. I mean. It would be great to have their expertise really. On what does this look like? How do we finalize it? The select having somebody from the select board to say, well, we already have a dog ordinance and so we need to take it out. So it doesn't, you know, could rate any conflict. And then, yeah, meet with. Meet with Jim and understand. You know, anything we might, we might need to, but I think, wasn't there something at the top. Did they cite us an authority or did I make this up? That Williamstown is doing this under the authority to do a nuisance statute. Yeah, it's a nuisance statute. Right. So. So that, you know, that may. Jim may have some. You know, helpful. Colorful, you know. To add, but as long as there's statutory authority. And there is statutory authority for a new nuisance ordinance. Then really we just, we have to. Develop something that's going to work for us address the concerns that we're hearing. Yeah. And then we can start a process. Well, it sounds to me like domestic animals are defined by statute. And there's this whole list of the domestic animals there. And it doesn't include dogs. Right. We have, we have a separate, we have a separate dog will hybrid ordinance. So. Yep. You're right. Yeah. So this is clearly just other. Domestic animals. Um, does it talk about snakes? I don't know. Doesn't. So that's great. There you go. That's the next ordinance, the reptile one. Yeah. Right. Right. So I'd like this. I don't know if there's anybody. I mean, we kind of all know. What's going on. So I don't think we need to, right, right. To rehear everything. We all know what's going on. We don't have to rehash everything. We just need to come up with a solution. Karen. I just have to. Okay. Go ahead. I want to wait. Hang on Karen. I want to see if the board has. Any other comment. And then I'll open it up to. Other folks. My only comment is to hear Karen's reaction to. And her insight from her on whether there's folks. That we could pull from to. Make a small work group. With one person. Yes. With one person from the board looking with that group. Yes, totally. I mean, you'll give me a number and I'll pull it together. Okay. So, a number of how many you're looking for. Well, let's see if anybody else on the board has another comment. Okay. Rick. John. No, I really like that idea there. They've been front and center. And. You know, we've all had this happen to us at different times, but it. This has been an extreme case. So I think. Well, and I also want, I also want to include. In the group that's working on this, our animal control. Officer and our assistant animal control officer. So it may, it may be, I mean, I'm. I'm willing to work with the group on. On this and call in. Yeah, John. Well, I think it would be good. To include folks in the group. Or representative or two on the group that has not had an affected interest in this. Otherwise it's going to look like we're. Yeah. So I think. If there could be folks. Who haven't had a direct impact from the current situation. That might be helpful toward making sure we. You have anybody in mind. As effective as possible. I don't, I don't know. I miss. It just came to mind, you know, yeah. We could try to find somebody who you're talking about somebody. Maybe it lives in another, another part of the town. It could be someone in the same part of town, but they haven't had horses run through the yard or they weren't the constable on the select board or. You know, they weren't. It may actually be good to have somebody who actually does have horses or other animals too. I mean, that's a great, they may be able to help us there because that. That they were going to be aware of the challenges as well. I like. Maybe Ruth Porter or somebody like that. She's. Yeah. She knows. Yeah, we could ask. Yeah, we could ask. Sure. Great person or Charlotte. Yeah. Yeah. Either either one, either one of them. We could put it in the minutes to. Try to get one of them to help us. Yeah. Yeah. Look at this. Yeah. Okay. And Karen, you kind of were. It's kind of as your turn. Anything else, Karen? Well, yeah, I had two things I wanted to say. Okay. And I want to say that I'm not going to rehash everything because I know you guys know it all. But in one of the emails, I just want to reiterate what Nick Ward said. Is it while he was talking to a lawyer about a civil suit. That there's better favorable possibility of an outcome when the town has an ordinance in place. Yeah. So that is going to help us move forward if we need to in another, in another direction. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I want to make sure that. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Just wanted to reiterate, you know, Janet Ansel sent in something for us and. One of the things she said was an enforcement will always be a challenge, but first the town needs something to enforce. Yeah. And then she had given you a suggestion of language that may talk about each day's violation, being a separate violation, meaning it would increase the penalty or give us more teeth in the, in the ordinance. Yep. Yeah, we should keep that. Yeah. We should keep that in mind while we're working on it. Katie, do you have that in the minutes? Perfect. All right. Meg, you had your hand up. Um, I was wondering if, um, when you were mentioning expertise, does it have to be someone in the town or can it be somebody out of town? Like any small failure. I don't know why we would want somebody from out of town. I just mean. There are other people with horse, you know, knowledge and. But this is going to be in business. The ordinance would only be for Calis. So. Yeah, I know. It's just for input, just for research. Um, all I'm trying to say is that Carolyn hurts from our group, spend a lot of time. Emailing different people and. And trying to understand the options. And there are many people that were horse borders. And I don't know. It just might be interesting to go. To other communities as well. Just. That live nearby that might have some useful information. That's all. Yeah. Well, I think as I think the, the working group would probably make. That decision on, you know, Who else to involve. Right. Yeah. I mean, I. I love that folks that have been reaching out. I wouldn't imagine bringing someone actually onto a work group, but Carolyn, who's been talking to lots of people in other places. Maybe she's a good. Yeah. Yeah. Should we also in this. I mean, they're kind of two categories here and we have. I mean, one of them. And it's mentioned as safety, but. You know, the. Large animals say in roads are real hazard. And so that's the almost, you know, a second discussion in this as well. And, you know, it should have its own imperative. I mean, just thinking, you know, one. It mentioned safety, you know, early in this. Williamstown ordinance, but. We roadway safety is a real issue with our channels. You know, so do we want to speak even more to that as well? Both are very important. But I think we should we, we, I think we would want to. You know, really. Be very clear with the, you know, with. With the safety element on that. And we should be. Maybe that should be pretty. You know, there's, there should be some pretty serious. You know, we, there's something we want to prevent. So, because that we could easily have fatalities with. Yeah. You know, it was an impact for something like a horse or. You know, it's a large animal. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've, that's been one of my greatest concerns is. You know, an animal. You know, you know, somebody hitting the horse. And, you know, who knows what could happen. So. Yeah. Well, we'll work on a draft and we can bring it back to the board. And I see that Wilson and. Janet. Have joined us. So Wilson and Janet, we're just talking about. Hi, Janet. Hi, Wilson. Okay, talking about the ordinance and we're putting together a working group. And we've noted your suggestion in our minutes so that we incorporate that into a draft. Wilson, we decided we don't need to rehash all the events leading up to this because everybody's pretty aware of them or anybody that's here. And did you have anything specific we would like to have you and our other animal control person involved in reviewing a draft. I don't have anything to add at this point. I just sent you a report from Friday. Oh, okay. Great. Janet, did you have any. No, and I'm sorry that it's late joining you but I had trouble getting the link. But I did. I did want to say that I, I think the select boards on the right path. I think doing an ordinance as tough as it is, is really, is really what you where the town needs to go this is, I mean the problem is, as we all know fairly serious. And they're, you know, without an ordinance, there's, there's nothing, nothing to enforce. So, so I think, I think you're doing, I think you're headed in the right direction. You know, just to recap really briefly on the legislation. I introduced it in 2020, a little over a year ago at the town's request it passed the house but it didn't pass the Senate. So I think it's up in the pandemic, I really can't say but it, I didn't hear from the town to reintroduce it sort of felt that if it got reintroduced reintroduced it probably should start in the Senate because that's where the hold up was. The truth is that even if it passed, it still would have required the town to adopt an ordinance so frankly, I think it's better off where you are right now, and wait for anything to happen at the state. I know when I, when I talked to the sheriff's office and I sent out an email to everybody about it. They said, you know, if we had an ordinance would make them their ability to help us would be better. Oh, absolutely. And you know, for Wilson, he has something to show when he gets called so I think it clearly would make a difference. Yeah, horsements hard, but you have to start somewhere. You were backed into the corner where, you know, with some individuals just cross the line of responsibility and then it, I mean, obviously it's hard to keep animals all the times we all know that we, you know, and, and this, it complicates life for a lot of people who are otherwise kind of innocent victims, I feel bad about that. Definitely. I don't have a choice. Yeah, I think this is more of the habitual. Yeah, yeah. Who is who is JLH. Julia Haynes 237 Collard Hill Road. Okay. Hi Julia, did you have any comment you would like to make. I just really like to see the animals in a safe place where they're well cared for and not destroying my property I mean if my dog goes on somebody's property and bikes them kicks them destroys property, I'm liable for that. I will have to be told to put my animal down or somebody will shoot it and that's within acceptable boundaries, but we can't do anything about these horses I just I think it's unfathomable. Well I don't know if you missed the discussion we're going to put a group together to work on an ordinance. Great. Yeah. Yeah, I know we were late my daughter had a softball game. Oh that's perfect night for a softball game. Yeah. Okay so it sounds like we have a plan. And the vehicle issue in the town right away. The sheriff's department or the state trooper has the authority to call and have the vehicle towed. So if the town has it towed, then it becomes an expense town has to pay if the sheriff or the state trooper has it towed. Then it ends up in their lot or whatever they call it and it stays there until she can have it gets the money to get it out of poker. Or if it stays there too long then they get rid of them. And did you have something on that. Yeah, I went by her house today. And the van is back. It's back it's not parked in the road she moved it off the road, but the front end of the van is clearly in the right of way and it's got a couple of red traffic cones. But it's in the road again. She won't respond to knocking on the door. Well, then we get the sheriff back out. I called the sheriff. Did you? Yeah, I did I called him. It's, it's there and it's in the right of way. It needs to be towed. We'll see where he takes it. So to be to be clear, I think Wilson you mean the truck, it's projecting out into the travel portion of the road right away actually extends onto the shoulders and you can park on the shoulders. Do you remember where she had wood stacked in the road. Yeah. Did she have a road. I don't remember that. It wasn't stacked though. Now the van is right on the shoulder it's right. It's nose into the road. Right. Travel way of the road is new traveling Alfred Larry. That's what's important to join the meeting. Yeah. Before we leave this topic, which I suspect we will be really soon. I, so Denise, I wanted to crystallize what, what I'm hearing. We're there, there will be, I guess, convened officially outside of this meeting a small work group of people. We don't have to decide the size here because it's really, you know, that's, I think it's small enough to be manageable and large enough for people to have the input they want to have obviously Denise Denise is going to be the, the sole point person for the select board. So along with that, I want to say a couple of things as a select board member one, Denise, I, I, I think we should authorize Denise to reach out and have whatever conversations with Jim on our behalf that she needs to. And then secondly, I don't, I don't feel the need to be included on all of the communication there will be a lot. So I would actually really appreciate, I appreciate Denise being our representative in this work group. And then I would, I would really appreciate it. Not to be included on all of the email because then not having all the email will let me know we know Denise will send it to send us emails that we really need to see when things are starting to gel and and that'll allow for my part and feel would make me feel like I know where I need to really focus when there's communication going forward. Yeah, and I, I'm almost always do all of my communication with Jim. I like to have the have an email so that I can refer back to it later or forward it on to a board member who might have additional questions that I didn't think of it need be. That's fine. I just I don't I that's that's important to you. That's not important to me and when I'm being authorized to do something I want to be able to have a phone call and crystallize it in my mind and prepare it for the rest of the board. So you do what you need to do and what I'm at what I'm saying is you do what you need to do because you're our point person on this project. So any what I'll do is I have the emails of all the people that have sent raise concerns about this so I'll come up with a date a couple of dates that I'm available to meet and we can do it on zoom see who might maybe we can make it into everybody has a chance to speak but then we put it into a working group so that we can get something done quickly. Okay, sounds good. Okay, so I'll be in touch. I can't hear you. I can't be involved. I'm glad to be. I will call on you know I'll call on people as I think if I need help. Katie. I heard Sharon know that she'd like the board to authorize the chair to reach out is that an informal thing or should I be asking about emotion. I don't think we need emotion. No, I do think it's a minute. Yeah, as long as it's in the minutes. Got it. Okay, so thank you everyone I'll be in touch. And we'll get right at this rolling. Okay, well thanks a lot guys. Thank you. Thank you for participating. Yeah, we really appreciate it. All right. Is it Alfred. Oh, there's. Yeah, I'm here on phone. I, my computer is updating. Oh, well nice of it right. Yeah. Yeah, I shut it. I shut it off to bring it home and when I turn it on it's updating. Okay. So I have one question first before we do anything else I, you were going to put something on front porch for about the mowing position and I haven't seen anything yet. Right. Yeah, I haven't got to that I guess. Okay, so this is a reminder. Okay. All right. Do we have the curve application in there? I can. I don't see it in the folder. It might have been in, might be in the folder from last week, but Alfred while clip is looking, you've been out there to read to you this. Yes, I have. Okay, and I know Stephanie's here. She lives on Jack Hill. What can you tell us about the curb, but he says it's for, um, it's residential, but it's a shed. There are three curb cuts in the previous folder, Denise. Okay, so this is the Victor and Tracy Sherbrooke. Okay. Got it. Thank you. So yes, he's got it as residential and it's to access a shed. But he's still accessing our town road. So we have to treat it the same. Okay. So I, I looked at it, I measured site distance. It's a little bit under the site distance on the, if you're sitting at the driveway and you're looking towards North callous. And it's because of that little hill. There's a little knob hill, but it's, go ahead. If he moves it a little bit, would it be better? Well, because of the lay of the land, I don't think he can move it because, you know, then his driveway would be right straight up the hill. So it'd be difficult to change it. I mean, he's so close. It was like 260 feet that I felt comfortable with. And we all are required 300 feet. So I, I mean, I think that it's, I think it's okay. He definitely needs, definitely needs a culvert. 15 inch. 15 inch up and there's not, there's not a ditch there now, but once he puts a driveway in there will have to be responsible for making the ditch. No, usually use their contractor will make the ditch a short ways away from their culvert. And then we'll pick up from there. So we want the contractor to install a, install a ditch. Do we know, do you know how many feet on either side of the culvert? We could say 10 feet is fair. I mean, they just, just to catch the water until we can get there. I mean, it's, it's working fine now without the, without the driveway, but if you put a driveway in, it's going to, it's going to create problems. So we'll just put a ditch in after he gets his work done. Alfred, can we, when you, when, before we move past or when your guys are done with Culver, I want to go back to the line of sight and make sure I understand what you said. Yeah, go ahead. Sure. So, I was just going to pull up the policy and I didn't get that done, but Alfred, are you saying that the line of sight does not meet our curb cut policy and whatever the state standard is that we've incorporated into it? Right. It's, it's 40 feet short. I mean, it's, it's really hard to judge because it's sort of a knoll and kind of standing in the location of where he's got his dry his curb cut marked out. I kind of look back and then I measure it, you know, I pick a, like a tree or something when I could see and then I, then I measure to it. And our standard says 300 feet. And he's in the site distance is about 260. So it's really close and I believe that's a 35 mile an hour road. Well, that's, yeah, so, so what I'm looking for is if we're going to deviate from what is the town's policy. And if I'm remembering right when I dug in deeper and looked at this a while ago, we are directly incorporating a state standard into our policy. If we are going to deviate, then what is the stand the objective standard you know I'm saying so it must meet the standard but if it doesn't meet this standard that you know the two times we might approve if it doesn't meet the standard are this and this, because I don't want us to be vulnerable to you know we do it when we feel like it. No, I think I think we don't normally deviate from the standard. So I have, I mean, even though I was asking all the questions my concerns to remain is the site isn't distance. Right. Well, if I mean if I could look at it again, I did it by myself. So I just parked the truck and then I looked and then I measured it. If I had two people, I could probably get a more accurate measurement. And also if they were to cut some brush that would help also. So we might be within the standard is just that you know when I measured it, I, I could only comfortably come up with 260 feet. I think, I think we're not ready to approve this then tonight. I love this. Alfred's going to go back. Yeah, we won't approve it until you. Yeah, cut some brush, get a measuring. Is he are they around. Did you meet with them Alfred. I did not know I just I just got the application and I went and looked at it so that I would be prepared for to discuss it with you with this with the board. They're, they're from Lindenville. So if they want their curve cut, they should make a time. They should make an effort to come up and meet with you on site. So that, um, yeah, I mean I find, I find that that works a lot better. And, you know, a lot of the more recent newer curve cut applications they're calling me first. And so we can go look at it and work out some of these details before we get to the board. Yeah. So I can, there's a phone number on this application, I can give them a call and set up a time for them to come and have a look. Yeah, great. Stephanie, Stephanie wants to say something before we're done with this. But no, I don't, I'm not going to approve this curve cut until we look at it again. I do have a couple of questions too when she's done. I like to let the board go first. So go ahead, Rick. One of them being, you know, what's, what's the frequency of use on this. The, they do deviate from this sometimes at the state level, one being, if there isn't an alternative, and it doesn't sound like there is. And number two is, you know, what's that frequency of use if it's a win shed, very, very occasional your risk is low, as long as that's clear that it's not a, you know, and then the number two that would be that vertical alignment usually that's taken from a distance of like, I think it's four feet off the ground to the brow of that hill. So if it's basically from a driver's eye. And I think you, you already know that I'm sure, but so it's. Well, my, you know, part of my concern is, right now they might say that they're not going to use it that often. But then later on, if they build up, then it would get used a lot, a lot more. I think that has to be clear in the permit that it's, it's more like a, at that point, it's more like a farm drive farm access. That's not a residential. This is her cut. We either determine access and egress from that point is safe or it is not. And we should anticipate that's going to be a house there. That's what it should be anticipated. Well, he does say resident, he says residential. And it says development. I mean, you put your shed in, you do your clearing, you lock up your chainsaws and you put the foundation in. That's how it works in Vermont. All right, so I'll, I'll reach out to these guys and I want to let, I want to let Stephanie ask, I want to let Stephanie ask her question. I want to make a comment. Yeah. The road is used by a lot of pedestrians and bicyclists, including a recumbent tricycle that's used by my husband. And it's low. I just want to make sure that the site distance is at least what the standard is because we don't want any accidents there and people are not always looking out for low recumbents, even though it's got a flag on it. I just went out that that's what this, this road is heavily used by bicyclists, including a very low on tricycle. And it's used frequently. And so the minimum site distance is absolutely a minimum. I distance is based on the speed limit of the road. So if the bicyclists are going say 35 miles an hour. I don't think so. So a distance can be a lot shorter, you know, that's, but you're right. I mean, if it's low, that's your basic sight line. The sight line issue that's a little different. You want to make sure that there's good visibility on the road. Yeah, I hear you. Okay, so we know we're not approving it tonight. And Alfred, I'm going to put it on you to get back to me to let me know if it's right for June 14. Okay, okay. I accept that responsibility. Thank you. All right. Rick, John Alfred, a quick. Two minute update on the Western star. I know Rick sent an email, but I want to put it on the, I want it in the minutes of what was decided and so forth. So Rick, did you want to kind of recap? Yeah, I think we. Sure, we could do that. I believe we thought the deal, we thought that was, we authorized Alfred to go ahead and, you know, sign that agreement. We thought that was a very fair price. They limited the mileage that could additionally be put on the truck based on their typical mileage over that period of time. I would be before we took. I think it was 84,000 miles, I believe. But John looked at the undercarriage on it and he and Alfred, they said it looked really good. You know, so the price was certainly fair on it. So that, yeah, basically we authorized him to move forward on that. The question, the bigger question for us, you know, we'll be, well, I haven't opened the discussion that's intended as a replacement for that for a backup truck because our, our spare is so old it's getting very expensive to maintain. So if we, if we are going to be increasing our, our, or decreasing our rodeo times by increasing our frontline truck presence by one, you know, we, we may need to be buying another truck at some point. So that. We have a fit. Well, we have a fifth person that. That's right. That's true of effective July 1st, so. But we don't really want to be using a spare truck, a high mileage spare truck as a frontline truck because you're probably talking at least two to three times the mileage per year and wear and tear on that. So this is a, you know, so that if we are intending to have that fifth person plowing to reduce rodeo time, then we'll look at that. I'm, as, as you know, I'm calculating, I'm working on calculating kind of the overtime rates and things like that on. That'll look like budget wise for us with a first person, a fifth person, but. Yeah. Anyway, John, John, did you have anything you wanted to say about the truck? No, no, Rick covered it well. Just that I want to underscore that while the chassis, the frame of the truck is in really good shape. That should get repainted, or at very least have a good undercoating put on it and the, the dump body definitely needs sandblasting, priming, painting, and undercoating where it's not going to last long. It's really starting to show. Yeah, I think that's in the minutes from. Yeah, no, it is. Yeah. So I think we're, yeah, Alfred said he'd get on that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So when, when are we looking for this to be delivered or ready to pick up or whatever? December. December. Okay. All right. Um, all right. I guess that takes care of the road commissioners portion of the meeting. Well, well, I just want to just hold on Alfred just want to note for I forget the chervil is in bloom. I think that mower needs to be out now. Okay. Alfred, you had a right on schedule. You said you had a couple other things, but you didn't send me an email about putting stuff on the agenda. Well, it's something that that's fairly brand new and I just want to make the board aware of it. It's not something you need to make a decision on. It's just you need to be aware. Okay. There's a landowner on lightning Ridge Road that has got a lot of big stones and telephone poles in our right away. And I know in the past that when that has happened, we have asked the landowner to move them out of the right away. Um, so it's just creating a dangerous situation and I think the board wants to be aware of it. Okay. Okay. Let us know if we need to take some kind of action on that. Okay, well, I'm hoping everybody knows what I'm talking about without saying his name, but I think we've got a good idea. I think it's brewing and it's, and it's just not, it's not a safe thing. I mean, particularly in the wintertime when those stones freeze down. And I mean, they're big stones there. Some of them are 560 diameter. So, if a car leaves the road and hits them, it's the town's responsibility or reliability, because it's in the right away. So if you're out passing by just have a look, it's on lightning Ridge Road. You won't miss them. Okay. Well, so what I'm hearing now is that is is not just a suggestion, but an affirmative request that we ask said landowner to move. Right. I mean, is that what we're hearing. I don't know Alfred started out by saying there was no no action for us to take so I'm assuming. I mean, I'm just making you guys aware, you guys can decide what you want to do to protect the town's interests. Yep. I guess I know I know that it's a hazard and I want to make you guys aware so that I'm not, you know, look that as just dropping the ball, because it's definitely a hazard. I mean, the board this Rick or John, would you be willing to go and look and document it. Maybe take some pictures. I'd like clarification, you know now for its opinion, I understand in the winter. Do you see it as a hazard all around the year out for like right now. Yes. Okay. It's almost in the travel portion, a couple of them are like a foot or so from the travel portion of the road. The concern is clear. A car varied from the road and hit it. It would be right. Yeah, it's a problem. Yeah. Those are clear zone rules. Those are in statute. So, yeah, you have right away and then you've got clear zone so Clear zone is a function of speed on a road. How many feet off. So yeah, that if it's within a foot or something like that, it's in the course. We have an ordinance for putting things in the right of way. Yeah. Stone walls, anything like that. You need to permit. So can we so Rick or John or both. Take a look. I can't be responsive this week. I'm I'm booked. I can't. We wouldn't be doing anything. Rick, if you're willing to do it, that'd be great. Otherwise. Gladly do it to give me just tell me where it is on Lightning Ridge. Give me a rough idea. I'll send you a message Rick. On the. Message board here. Yeah, that's fine. That'll, or yeah, just try me and drop me an email. I'm sending you a message right now in the chat section, Rick. If we need to take some sort of action by the board, then I need you to let me know. About putting it on the agenda for the 14. And I think Sharon wanted to say something else. Yeah, I want to go back to the turbo. So. The turbo is in bloom. And did I hear a minute ago that we haven't hired or even posted for a mower? Did I understand your. Did I. Is that right? Or did I? We haven't, we haven't posted. And we, we have guys that can run it. We have four guys that can run it. So the tractor can, can be operating. Okay. Okay. I mean that. Yeah. My gosh, we've been talking about this every year since I've been on the board. So. Right. Well, it's, it's a, first of all, it's a hard position to fill. Hey, I'm, you know what I mean? We need to, we need to move, move along here. Yeah. I'm done. I'm done. Perfect retiree position, man. I tell you if I were retired right around the tractor. With the radio going in the air conditioning. Better, man. Yeah, there you go. That's the life. All right. So, um, moving on. Um, I put. Peter Harvey's request for no mowing signs. Back on, and I sent him the blurb from. Um, the minutes that talked about him presenting, um, to the board. That he's talked to the neighbors. That was the condition in the minutes. Um, that he's talked to the neighbors. And I think we were looking for Peter to report back to the board with documentation. The property owners on those roads have been in communication and agreement about continuing the experiment. So, um, you know, I don't know what you were going out to meet. You and Peter were going out to, to walk. So do you want to give us an update of your. Little site visit. Sure. I mean, Peter and I met. Uh, and the, the. I'll be, I got to step away for a second. I'll be right back. Okay. The two, the two places where I thought there might be some. Uh, some impacts on site distance. You know, we're basically at the two. Triangles, the triangle intersections. And Peter and I walked those. And he offered to hand side those every month. Or the, you know, the spot where we thought that would be an issue. And then. We would, uh, uh, And I would, I'm willing to go out and verify it, you know, so that that's done. You know, so that, that really, for me, my only concern was the site line for intersections at roads, you know, where people couldn't see. Uh, is that pull up to an intersection? We also, there was, we also need. If, if, if. The select board agrees to this to have him just hand side that the. The intersections every month. We'll have to have Alfred come in and just clear some, some, it's a very small amount of links. Of, uh, saplings that are in the, just in the ditch lines. So it, and it should only be a few minutes worth of work. They're small, but, um, Peter was hesitant to do that in the town right of way and on somebody else's property, but, uh, so, but Peter can talk in detail to what that is. I think he's about to speak as well. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah. Um, just for the minutes, uh, my name says Lucy Waller. My wife's name on there. And it's Peter Harvey speaking. And that's because I, this is a borrowed computer from a third party. Look like Lucy to me. So, um, yeah. And there are also some branches, um, that are in the, in the right of, in the right of way that, uh, block vision, uh, on that, uh, triangle. Um, but, um, yeah, if I sigh that then we won't be bringing in any seeds. And it's really a very easy thing to do. Um, it's just down on my corner and, uh, I can just walk around it with a side and half an hour once a month. And, uh, which will be twice as often or three times as often as the road crew will be able to, uh, go in with a brush on. So I'd like to do that. Okay. My, my concern is that the minutes stated that we wanted documentation that the property owners have all been. I, I, um, I've got, uh, I've contacted. Um, out of 30. Um, I've got 27, 36 households, including my own. I've contacted, um, 27 said yes. No said no to have said no. And five I have yet to receive answers from. Uh, and I just got two more answers this afternoon. Uh, about five o'clock. So I can email this to you. Um, I can email. Now or right after we get done talking, if you'd like. I can email this to you. With the name. The addresses, their phone numbers, their emails. And the answer. I got John. John asked, John asked who the two knows where. Uh, oh, the two knows are, uh, Sterilino. And, um, uh, Kent Morris. And they were, they've been knows right along. Uh, we had one no change to a yes. Uh, and two people. Uh, and one of those being the one who changed to a yes. Um, said that they really, uh, liked the road. Uh, roadside being mowed last fall. When, uh, the road crew did it last after they power washed. Uh, the equipment. And, uh, and so that's their, uh, their yeses were based on that. Okay. So let me ask, so let me ask the board a question then. Um, we asked for specific documentation. And Peter has it, but hasn't sent it to us yet. How do you feel about proceeding. With. Making a decision tonight. I could send it all to you in five minutes or let me know, let me, let me hear from the board. Well, so for clarification purposes with the nose. Those are going to get mowed. Um, You know, for better or worse, Kent and scenarios, road frontage. Right. They would get mowed. Um, You mean you come in and spot mow those two places? Yeah. Well, uh, they, I think at no means we want ours mowed. And so I think that's, we have to, otherwise what's the purpose of the survey. Okay. Sterile no doesn't have, it's all parking, parallel parking. But across the road, he owns land across the road along the pond. Yeah. So that would get mowed. So alpha. So. Other select board members. I would tend to agree with Sean on that. If it, if. The property owner doesn't, as much as I don't like to do that, I think that we, you know, we would have to spot mode that place probably. And I know that's defeats the purpose a little bit, but. Well, actually it adds to the study, because then it would show that it while terrible was being brought in. By the mower. It would add wild chervil to that area. You know, where it hasn't. Hasn't gotten. Well, Steri's side on the line, hasn't got any right now. It's all. It's all something else though. Peter Peter. Yeah. Educate me again or re-educate me. What. Your review of the chervil. How the chervil spreads. Is it also beyond seed? We're cutting it early. Before it goes to see, does it still spread by little pieces like not weed or is that not an issue? No, that's as far as I understand, that's not an issue at all. I mean, you know, the seed. So we, well, it may not help you on your. It's, it's going to be going to seed steadily. From about two weeks from now through into August. Remember, I brought two years ago, I brought plants in in August. We're going to seed to show you that after it had been mowed. And that was up from lightning Ridge road. So it is going to continue to be there. Mowing it twice isn't going to prevent the seeds. It's going to slow it down a bit, but it's, it's the plants that you mow off are going to grow up again and try to go to seed again. Yeah. So it, and I, and you, and I understand that you can't mow. Every, you know, what is it? 170 or 80 miles of roadside. Every week in town, like you can do the triangle. a dozen plants that are foot high and going to flower again. So you're kind of, it's something that the roadside, we won't be able to prevent it from being on the roadside. I'm hoping that my end goal is to get people to manage the road road sides and not have it keep on coming in a lot. And then to get the farmers, the several farmers in town we've got to keep it out of their fields. Okay, so it's eight o'clock. Looking for the select board to see if you're ready to make a decision tonight. I appreciate Peter's input that it actually helps his study. I'm wondering if anybody can remember what's our approach been other years? I know we've asked Peter to seek input or approval from his neighbors in other years. And I think I'm a little surprised that no means that you get your property mode. If I had been asked to say, what does it mean? I would have said, well, I think it means, no means we're gauging kind of where the community is on it. And we've heard two no's and 27 yeses, but I could be wrong. Maybe we have historically. I think just homeowners on those four roads though. Right. No, I think a survey of the whole town, you're gonna get a total different outcome. Well, I think other years, we just haven't mowed. Even if somebody was a no, we just haven't mowed. Right, we did treat it as a sort of taking a pulse. Right. How was the question presented to these people? Was it presented as these four roads? Don't mow these four roads? Or was it don't mow in front of my house? That's a good question, Alfred. I presented it the same way I always have, which is that I put up the signs at the end of the roads for no moment. Yeah, so neither specifically not either way that Alfred trained it. So what I'm a little worried about is the precedent of, oh, if I say no, then I get mind mowed. I got it. And maybe we are able to walk the line right now and say, well, we've got two people willing to contribute to the study and we'll accept no and mow them because it helps us learn. But I think that I would want that caveat, at least for now, because we don't want to have the whole, how many years that Peter's been doing this and now he's gonna do more by hand lost to, I mean, eventually we're gonna have to work. Well, I think it sets up a precedent, too, that if somebody doesn't, what if somebody in another part of town says, well, I don't want mind mowed either because of this. And then you gotta keep track of who wants their side mowed and who doesn't want it mowed. It could become a real challenge. At the last meeting you requested, Stephanie requested that you not mow a little over a mile of her road. How did you deal with the neighbors on that one? We didn't. Jack Hill Road. Yeah, no, I remember that. So that was a little over a mile. We haven't had an issue on Jack Hill road. That was particularly her property also. Peter, you're asking to cover four roads. She started with her property and went all the way to the dump road, which is an, I don't know how many houses that is, but it's not just her property. It's over a mile. He doesn't have a mile of road. That's not the way I took it. I was more just in front of her property as a way I understood what she was going to do. But I was not supposed to mow. So let me, I'm going to... The position I stated was based on our repeatedly, at least twice, being told that Kent and Sterry didn't like the fact that their road frontage wasn't being mowed. It wasn't just because they said no, it was because they repeatedly made clear or said, well, they want a mowed. They've been consistent. Yes. So that was my position. It's not that they said, no, we still want to participate in this thing. They've done it. They've watched it. They witnessed it and, you know. Mm-hmm. So I don't know. I'm okay either way, but I just wanted to also acknowledge that however we do that that we've heard from them, maybe we send them a letter saying, well, we're doing a study. Please bear with us. But that's it. Okay. So specific question we have to decide tonight or decide to not decide. We need to decide or not to decide to let Peter post the signs. Yeah. We need to decide tonight. It's time. Yeah. The mower's going out. I hope tomorrow. I dug up 122 plants in Kent Corner. I couldn't tell how many. Peter, I'm sorry. Peter, I don't mean to be rude, but we have a time crunch. So I need the board to weigh in on a decision here, Sharon. I'll make a motion that we authorize Peter to put up the signs. I second that. Okay, wait a minute. And what about the two people that said no? Is that in your motion at all? Okay. I make a motion that we authorize Peter to put up his two signs and that Alfred's crew mow the property of the two landowners who asked, who said no, noting that in part we are approving or we are taking that step because it's consistent with Peter's study of how to reduce the spread of terrible. Okay. Okay. It's 12 signs. Yeah. So I'm going to say it's. 12 signs, not two. Okay. I don't think I said two, but. Yeah. You said two. So. Yeah. Denise, can I just add something before you vote? Let me see if there's a second first. Rick, do you have a second? Yeah, I'll second it. Okay. Alfred, what's your question? It's more of a comment. Going back to workman's comp. We have to, we had to do special arrangements for mowing the lawn at the town office. How, how is it? How is the town protected from liability if Peter's out there working in our right away? He's not being paid. He's not an employee. That's the difference. He's a volunteer. Yeah. It's like, I hope you're, I just hope you're covered for that. That's how the, that's how the league explained it to us the moment we start providing compensation for work rendered is when we get in trouble. Okay. Select board. Are you ready to vote? Rick. Yeah, I, I'm an eye Sharon. Hi. John. Yes. And Chris stepped away for a minute. So we've got a, we've got a majority. All right. Thank you, Peter. Thank you so much for all your work on this project. We really appreciate it. What was your final decision then on the two that didn't want it mode? They're getting the road. The road crew will mow it. Because it's because it's consistent with your study. Okay. Thank you. That way it's not precedent sending. Yeah, that way it's. Okay. So North Callas Memorial Hall Association. I see Rowan's here and Stephanie's here from conservation commission. Don't see anybody else that, anybody can obviously ask a question, but thank you Rowan and all for your work. I see the building standing up on stilts. It's pretty amazing. It is. And I did, I read the, everybody's been sent the agreement at least twice. I did appreciate reading the conservation commissions minutes and they asked a lot of good questions which I see that you incorporated into the agreement, the management agreement. And I think I had a question but I just have to find it. So anyways, would you like to speak Rowan and then Stephanie about the agreement? Sure. And I'll keep this pretty brief because I think you guys are all fairly familiar with what's going on. And I'm one of the seven board members of the North Callas Memorial Hall Association and we're in the process of restoring the hall. If you haven't seen it, go take a look. The whole thing is up in the air and for the first time in 130 years and it's crazy and impressive. And also it gives you a good chance to see just how terrifying the basement is. So it's a really good thing we're doing this now. The building could not have probably withstood too many more years of being ignored before we would have been in real trouble. So it's all really good that this is happening. So work is underway and will be underway throughout the next few months to restore it and get it firmed up basically. And we have an agreement with Vermont Housing and Conservation Board who has provided grants and in exchange for that, they have conservation easements and historical preservation easements on the hall, which means that in perpetuity, it will always be a building with a public service aspect to it and that can never change. So we're kind of in a great place where basically all the things that the hall has always been are now sort of codified and real and permanent. Also we're still raising funds because as I'm sure you all know, the cost of doing any restoration project in the COVID era has exploded where like plywood is three to four times what it was a year and a half ago, et cetera, et cetera. So we're still raising funds but we definitely have enough for this phase one that's underway and phase two is looking pretty good. So congratulations. Thank you, fingers crossed. But yeah, it looks like if all goes well, we'll be able to open the building in 2022 next year at some point. And part of the funds is $50,000 coming from the town conservation and so we've been working on that, working with the Conservation Commission on that and the select board wanted a chance to be able to review the easement and the management plan and so I've had that and so I'm looking forward to any input or thoughts that you have. I'd be excited to incorporate that into the... Well, I sent you a question earlier today was this who signs this agreement and you said it's you guys, BHCB and I forget the other person who said, oh. The agreement is just for BHCB's benefit. So it's between us and them in terms of the official management plan but the idea of the management plan is it's basically a constantly evolving document. It's basically like if all seven members of the Memorial Hall Board died in a plane crash together, we'd have something, a booklet that could be handed over to the next people to take it over. So that's what the management plan should eventually be is like how to run the hall. So that will take a while. So Stephanie, on behalf of the Conservation Commission you all reviewed it. You did early third job reviewing it which we really appreciate and asked some really good questions. I thought it was well done. And I guess we would select board would be looking for this conservation commission's recommendation to release the first allotment of funds which is $20,000. Stephanie are you still there? I'm here. Yeah, I mean, we, as you saw from the minutes we had a detailed discussion with Rowan about both the interim management plan and also the VHCB conservation easement. There were some ambiguous things in that. I just wanted to mention too that one of the main issues we had was that the original, I think the original proposal was to have a future parking area expansion. And so when we talk with Rowan about it, Rowan just correct me if I'm wrong but I remember we talked to you about it and you said, yeah, yeah, we're going to get rid of that. Because it was of concern because it was sort of, we remembered that there was a proposed parking. There was an area in the woods across from the hall that at one time was proposed for parking and there was a huge outcry. Yes. Yeah. So anyway, that was taken out and a few other things just clarifying that the shoreline would always be accessible for swimming to the public was an important clarification too, just to make sure. I think their intent was, but there were things, a few, just a few things in there with language that we felt needed to be clarified and so they clarified it and it looked good to us. And so we recommend moving forward with the money. Okay. Select board members, any questions of Stephanie or Rowan? I can't see everybody. So I can't tell. Rick should get the check. No, I don't have. Sharon, John? I don't have questions. I think it would be great to just have the motion and then any questions that come out of a specific motion would be good. I want to, Cliff, do you have any questions? He stepped away, I think, Denise. Yeah, well, he called the document up. So he's... No, that was me. Oh, that was you. Can I have one more question? Yeah, go ahead, Rowan. So the way you guys set up the disbursement was the first 20,000 on commencement of phase one, which is already under way. And then the second 20,000 when phase one construction is 50% complete, that'll actually probably be in like two weeks. So I don't know if you guys want to vote on both of those now or if you'd rather we came back for your next meeting. What does 50% complete mean? If it's still standing in the air. So phase one is all the foundational work. So it's all the basement and the supports. And so that will be, that basically that will go, that will be done some point in July. So we're pretty much, and they've been working on it since early April. That's not a couple of weeks, July is a month away. July will be 100% done with phase one. Oh, okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, so 50% will basically be depending on how you want to find it in the next couple. It's just a question of whether you want to save yourself having another meeting. Select board, what are your thoughts? I think that we make the motion to include both disbursements, but the second one is dispersed by the treasure upon receipt of, I don't know, a letter documenting that they're at what 50% Rowan? Yeah, that's what our letter says, 50%. Yeah, so I would make that motion. I would second that. Okay, select board, any further comments or questions? I would actually really love to hear from Katie exactly what the, is it 50% of phase one? Let, can we hear the motion? 50% of phase one is the second disbursement. Go ahead, Ray. I wrote, John Brabant made a motion to include, so there needs to be something out of here, made a motion to include both disbursements. The second amount dispersed by the town treasurer upon receipt of documentation that phase one is 50% complete. The first installment is issued immediately after the vote, well, by the treasurer. Right, and the motion should include what the actual figure is for each disbursement. Right, the letter that we sent out said that we would disburse $20,000 from the commencement of phase one construction act, with the commencement of phase one activities, and 20,001 phase one construction is 50% complete. So maybe that should be part of the motion with the motion stating that once the treasurer receives confirmation that the 50% construction is complete that the treasurer will disperse the additional $20,000. And that can be an email or something, it's not to be, Rowan's got a life too, I think. He trips wood for a living, I think. Yeah, and it's, and just to keep saying it, 50% of phase one is complete. Correct, that's the second installment. Yeah, yeah. Ron, could you please repeat the part that you added last where you said the first installment in the amount of $20,000 is dispersed, immediately on the vote, and the second installment is dispersed by the treasurer, both are by the treasurer, by the way, upon receipt of documentation that the project has reached the 50%. They state the second installment amount too. Yes. I'm sure you can write it better than I can say, Katie. I'm gonna ask Denise to copy and paste the contract information also so that that's added in their rate. Yeah, yeah, I'll do that, Katie. All right, anything else is the board ready to vote? All right, Rick. Do we have a second? Yeah, I thought Rick seconded it. I thought Rick seconded it. I, aye. Okay, Sharon? Aye. Don? Yes. And I'm an aye, and I don't think Cliff is back, yes. So we've got four, so that's good. You know, that. Thank you, North House. Thank you, Ron. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, everyone. And so what will happen is the treasurer will, I'll alert the treasurer to read the minutes. Katie's usually really good about getting them out like within the next day or so. So she knows, so the treasurer knows what to do. Okay, great, and we'll let you guys know when we hit that 50% mark. But as I mentioned, when I was talking with Stephanie in the conservation commission, this town money is ending up being just incredibly key to this project staying on track. So it could not be a better example of the importance of the conservation fund. Yeah, thank you. Great, thanks for the work. Thank you. It's very exciting. Yeah. Excitement in North Calis. It's gonna be a good party. Okay. Next up is Curtis Torn Dam Exploratory Group. I see that it looks like there's Mark Mahalli and Meg. Are you here for Dan? Mark Sweeney and Colleen Bloomer. Yeah, I was kind of going through the screen and seeing who was here. So it looks like Marge and Colleen and Mark, I didn't hear from Meg whether she was... I am, but I haven't done any work. I'm just curious. Okay. All right, so the dam, dam. The dam, dam. Can you guys hear me? Take it away, dam group. Okay, this is Mark Mahalli. Can you guys hear me okay? Yep. Great, thank you. Hi everyone, thanks for taking time for this. So the Curtis Pond Dam Exploratory Group formed in July of last year and we gave you a first kind of quick overview in February. And Colleen Bloom is our convener and she's attending along with Marge Sweeney, who's our finance, brilliant finance expert and has done with really great help. I mean, not that he's a supporter or anything, but he's been very helpful. John McCullis helped us with our projections. We kind of overlap with the Curtis Pond Association, which is a voluntary association, but we're not the same thing. We're owners of land on the pond and near the pond within walking distance, who are really concerned about the dam and the future of the pond. We've spent these months, almost 11 months now investigating title issues, insurance, finance runs. We've talked to the general council and met with the general council of the agency of natural resources and the dam safety people and lakes and streams people, et cetera. And Denise, could I ask you to put up the PowerPoint that we provided just a very few? Yeah, you can start there. We really, I'll just summarize quickly before we get into it. The dam is fragile, it could go anytime, it could be overtapped. If it does, the lake will disappear. Doing nothing is gonna, would cost the town more in lost taxes than it would cost to fix the dam. And we're gonna ask if you might consider going forward to join us in some way either through appointment of a joint committee or appointing a liaison so that as we move forward and talk to various state officials and start looking at this more carefully, the town is involved. And also as we educate the citizenry of the town through meetings, it's some sort of a joint effort. But in some, we're really ready to do the work and help you in any way we can. Could you look at, yeah, the first one there, Denise, this one, yeah. So the dam, it's old, it's over a hundred years old. It was raided poor by the state. Climate change increases the risk because what would really destroy the dam, as you can see in the picture, I don't know. Denise, can you make it full screen or is that it? Let me see. I don't know. Yeah, that's good. Is that better? Yeah, it leaks like crazy. But in addition, the big risk is if we had another Irene, the dam would be overtopped and probably disappear. And if that happens, we really don't know if the state would allow us to rebuild. And that's not just caution. There are A&R, the Agency of Natural Resources divided on that issue. There are the wetland people would rather see if it's returned to its natural state. I just think it'd be very difficult. We wouldn't necessarily at all be allowed to rebuild. And without the dam, there's no pond. So we'd lose the town beach and the island and the state access. I think people from out of state would stop coming there and the community store would die from lack of business. So can we go to slide two, the next slide here? This is really interesting. And I'm gonna let Marge take this over. Marge has done an enormous amount of work looking at the grand list, working with John McCulloch. And basically there's $3 million minimum. I think that's a very low number. It's probably double that, that the town would lose in assessed value if the dam went. Marge, are you able to pick this up? Can you hear me? Okay, yeah, so just a quick overview of what you're saying and then I'll tell you, give you a quick idea of how I came to these numbers. So it's a bar graph with what we've got are seven different scenarios of funding options. And there's a bar for each, like for town-wide, what do we cost for town-wide? That's the green, the blue is the shoreline and the yellow is people within walking distance. And what I, and so if this is all based on how much the property taxes would increase per $100,000 of real value. And we, I did this particular bar graph using a 500, half a million town bond at 3% annual payment, which would end up with costing $33,300 per year. Now, so the first one is a little different because what that shows is if the dam breaks or is removed, we're estimating a loss of over 3 million from the grand list, which accounts to everyone in the town who would pay $42 more in taxes to cover that loss of income for 100,000 real value. So whatever, you know, if you're 200, then it would be $84 a year that your taxes would increase. And we projected out that over the next 20 years if the town broke and we lost that grand list value that the town would lose 2.3 million in tax revenue. Now, for each one of the scenarios I show you, I show how much each group with their taxes would increase. So on the last set of bars, if the town paid 80% of the costs and the blockers, people within walking distance paid 5% and the shoreline 15%, the town wide would be $13 per 100,000. The shoreline people would be $53 per 100,000. And excuse me, the walking folks would pay $33,000. Now, where did I come up with these numbers? What I, the most, everything pretty much is based on the town's grand list, which I use the online webpage to gather the numbers. I've been using for the projections, I had 30 years worth of what the property taxes, the rates were for the last 30 years, I had my own copies of my bills from the last 30 years. And I use the last 30 years to project out what the next 20 years would cost using a formula and net present value formula. And I use, I picked, and I have all the supporting documents. I didn't, we have, there's spreadsheets for the current tax rates for those on the shoreline, those on the walking distance and the town overall. And I have all the supporting documents for these numbers out on, we have the Curtis Pine Association has a website and out there's an exploratory webpage. And I have all the spreadsheets that I use to calculate all this. And I can, if anybody has questions, I'm not gonna go into it today, but if any, I can spend a lot of time with someone if they wanna see how I came up with the numbers. But after getting all these numbers, I sat down with John McCulloch and asked him if I wanted him to kind of verify my methodology and the reasonableness of what I had done. And he sat down and was very helpful with that. I also, well, I lost my train of thought here. I did, we, I picked 500,000 as a starting number to put on these screens. But we have, I have worked out 31, I've got another paper that has 31 different funding scenarios. These are just a sample. We have 31. Now that I have the methodology, I can do any kind of scenario and that people would like to see. The thing is is that we are not trying at this point to recommend any of these scenarios. They're just samples. And because it's a town decision on whether to go forward or not to go forward. And which one we will choose. Are you ready for the next slide? Yeah, I know we got to move along here, but I just want to add that I want to emphasize Marge has done many runs. We've looked at them. This is just the sort of beginning the process for you. I do think just I'm going to add my personal opinion. I think that losing $3 million in assessed value is highly conservative. It assumes that we only lose 25% of the property value of the shoreline out properties and no loss in value of those adjacent to the shoreline. And I just think that's very low. It's probably in my view, well in excess of $5 million lost. And to make up the lost assessed value would I think be well more than $42 per 100,000. But this really is a good time to fix the dam because interest rates are low and we've heard nothing but support from the key state agencies. And we're just worried, frankly, all it's going to take is a really big storm to do this. We really can't get this done at a certain point. I mean, we really want to help the town. We will participate. We'll do the bulk of the work. We'll do anything we can to help you. We are willing to fundraise and raise a minimum of $100,000 in grants or donations towards the dam's repair. And as Marge said, we're not wedded to any particular formula at this point, but it's clear that we really feel that when we're talking to state officials, et cetera, right now it would be really great if the select board could appoint someone who would be there with us so that everybody's hearing the same thing so that we're not just some group of citizens out there completely on our own. And during the summer, the association has held informational sessions in the past and had really good attendance in the summer. And so we were thinking this summer, we would, it would really be good to begin an education program, not just for the landowners around the pond, but also for the citizenry, for people in general in the town and to advertise those sessions and have them in a convenient place and have them sponsored, just as information sessions to talk, have them sponsored by the town and by us. And so we really think it's time to sort of begin to work together. And we don't have any particular idea as to how to work together, whether you want to form a joint committee or whether you want to appoint a liaison to our committee, however you want to do it is fine with us. But we think now's the time and stand ready to answer any questions and would ask that you join with us in further exploration of this issue. So let me ask the select board. I'll go in order on the screen. Oh, John's got his hand up, yep. I just want to clarify and kind of looking down the list of next steps of what needs to be done for this to move forward. And Mark and I have spoken about this on the phone and I think I brought it up at the run on one of our last meetings that the town is and was willing to take ownership of the dam. We just needed to figure out how to finance this and the idea would be the bond and how that the responsibility for payment would be allocated, which was that was a great presentation. Thank you. But in terms of the timing of the ownership that cannot happen according to passive when we had a last conversation until the new dam was built. And we had already had a conversation with the current owner of the dam about how we would structure that handoff and that current owner would allow us to do the necessary construction and pre-construction work. The engineer design is all done. We got the 100% plans submitted by Duboy and King. They've been approved by the state. I mean, if their money was there, they could start right now. We could start putting an RFP up for engineering services. It's, we're right down to the bonding thing. And, but in terms of the ownership that would not happen until the new dam is in place. Final as built plans are engineer stamp as meeting standards. And then we could take ownership and passive wood as the VLCT insurance arm would then cover us. But until such times a new dam is constructed that does not have all the risks that Mark just explained to us. We could not take ownership, but that's not a hurdle we can overcome. Thank you, John. I agree with most of what you said. The only thing I'd say is that part of what we all have to do is update all of this. I mean, this is 15 years old and we got to make sure that there's new people. A lot of the new people are really supportive actually, but I think John's got the general idea. Okay. Sharon, Rick, Cliff, questions? I have a couple of questions. So I appreciate all of the work that you guys have done and the documents were really, really clear. One of the questions that occurred to me as you were, not earlier, but when you were going through the slides is just confirm that how you envision the costs being born across town in some formulaic fashion, regardless of which model, one of those or something else, is through property taxes. Plus, Mark, you just mentioned some fundraising by the private group, I assume. Correct, Sharon. Three sources. Four, fundraising locally, we think we could raise funds, grants and I would add to that something new, earmarks. I mean, we do have just about the most important man in the Senate with us right now and that's not something to disregard, but assuming that's not a major source, then the rest would be done by an assessment district and we've identified three sources, which would be townwide, you know, it could be sort of concentric rains, the property owners, those within a thousand feet and by the way, a number of our most active members are in that second group and then the third would be the town as a whole. I appreciate that approach and that recognition that there's tears of impact. I think just to skip ahead, knowing that Denise is gonna wrap us up really quickly, I am not in favor right now of a shared committee because I think that kind of jumps ahead of where we are as representatives of the town. I certainly would support one of us. Maybe John is the right one to join your group as a liaison from the select board so that there's, you know, select board voice, town perspective and certainly liaison bringing things back to us. That's where I come down right now. Something else to consider when you're looking at funding, you know, there's gonna be this ARPA money and there's gonna be this long list of things that ARPA money can be used for. So I'll just throw that out there as maybe something that the town could look at from our perspective. We would certainly look into that for you if you would like. Rick, do you have any comments or questions? Yeah, I would. I am gonna get things wrapped up here. Yeah, I'll make it quick. I think I spoke in favor of the dam many, many years ago in the first round of town meetings just as a citizen, but I mean, like Sharon, I too have concern, you know, I think that, I mean, I'd be nice to really see you know, how, you know, the kind of a diminishing role of an impact on taxes for people as they move away from it. And this is an important town resource. I have no, I don't argue that at all. It's like number 10 pond and it's part of what Calis is. And I think it would be nice to see this move forward and we support this, but doing it in a way that's also fair. I wanna make sure that happens as well. And you were right in this day and age, I'd be very, I'm very concerned with the climate change, the amount of rainfall, these be large rainfall events we're getting, the unpredictability. And it's not just the idea that we lose those ponds, but there's a lot of huge public safety issue downstream on this thing, you know, the potential damage gone. But, you know, I wanna be very, very careful. As John said, as you know, we're elected by the town to protect the interests of the town too and the liability and everything else on this. So gotta be, whatever path forward we choose, we've gotta be very careful that this is consistent with what our insurers will agree to and so on. Is that it, Rick? Yeah, I'm good. Okay, Cliff? Yeah, I just wanted to thank everyone for the dedication and putting together these excellent presentations. It convinces me that we have some concerned citizen re here that are in a position to help us make this happen. I echo Rick's sentiments and support the project. And I think we have the right group of people to help us get there. So thank you. So John and I served on the committee back in what was it, John 2004 or something. So we do have some historical knowledge. So it might make sense. I know John's really busy in the summertime with paying and all those things. So we could maybe share the role of liaison if that works for everybody. If that would work for me. Yeah, that would be great. All right, so. So that's, yeah, so that's great. Thank you. And I wanted to say what I said before, Denise. I am happy to delegate on behalf of the board, the participation in this group and trust you to bring us in when we need to. And in the meantime, spare us. I don't spare you all the emails. Yeah, I can't, I can't, I can't process all that email coming back at me and all the conversation. And I really rely on you to just, you know, crystallize and digest it for us. So thank you. Okay. We can do that. All right, does that work for the damn group? Perfectly. The damn, damn. All right. Thank you everybody for that. Thank you so much for all your work on this. Thank you for your time, guys, and for your consideration. And Sharon, we will not darken your door until we have something very concrete. Okay. Many others, many others will. So not to worry. Yeah, well, we'll make sure we flutter with something else on email. Definitely. All right. Thank you so much. We'll be in touch. All right. Next up, your appointments. We, town meeting was back in March and we've been trying to make some appointments periodically as we can find room on the agenda. But anybody who hadn't been reappointed, you continue to serve until such time that you're reappointed or you reside. So we've done our best to try to keep some getting some appointments going. So first up, we have DRB. I don't know if Barbara's joining us tonight or not, but we have Peg, I see is here. And, oh, there's Dot Helling. Hi, Dot. And Stephanie and Anne Winchester all need to be, Dot Helling is a new member. So the others are just reappointments. And then we can do that and then maybe meet, or we can meet Dot now. Hi, Dot. Hi. How are you? Good. Welcome to Calis. Thank you. Yeah, great. So tell us a little bit quickly. Like in 60 seconds, your background, did you work with or have you worked with other quasi-judicial boards in that capacity at all? Well, I'm a retired attorney from Opelier and I was on a lot of boards and committees, did a lot of real estate. Yeah, I mean, it's been 15 years, 50 years of service to the community. So did you work with any other quasi, did you work in a quasi-judicial capacity? No. In any of your other board work? Okay. No, no, no. It's all been through the courts. I was an acting judge and... I saw that. Yeah. Okay, great. We do have a requirement in the select board as a whole, had made a decision that anybody that was serving and wanting that was serving needed to attend a specific training that we had by the town's attorney. I think I mentioned to you that before you can sit on any case, you would have to, and this is just honor system, that you have attended the training and I can send you the training video. So, and I think we just need confirmation from Barbara that she, I know she, I sent her the link several times last summer and I think she was taking the training but we just need to confirm that she's completed that as well. There's a couple other documents that we can share about DRBs and so forth. Other select board members have questions for Dot or any of the slate up for reappointment? Oh, Dot, your reputation speaks for itself, Mike. Well, thanks. I did get Barbara's promise that she would be my mentor before I did this. Yeah. Sharon, John, Cliff, any questions, comments? Thank you, Dot, for being willing to serve. It's really great. Oh, well, thanks, John. Thanks to all for being willing to serve, much appreciated. Yeah, and to reserving. And I, go ahead, Sharon. I agree, I agree. I do wanna note that I suggested that because Denise participates as an alternate on the DRB that she consider her recusing herself. And I feel it's important as a member of the board to be public about that is, of course, her right to decide whether she does or doesn't. But I wanna say for my part, where I'm coming from. But I'm pleased and delighted that you stepped forward. And I guess Barbara's, I don't see Barbara here, but that she's re-upping or offering to re-up and peg as well. Thank you all. So would somebody like to make a motion to reappoint? Peg, Barbara, Stephanie, and Anne. And to appoint Dot as a new member. And I'm just gonna say for the record, I'm not gonna vote. I'm gonna abstain from voting. I will make that motion if that's, or so moved. If you can, yeah, wordsmith that exactly right. I think, I think Katie can probably, Katie, do you have a motion in mind for the minutes that you'd like to read? Yes. Did someone make the motion? Should I put someone's name in yet? I did. Okay, so Rick Keen made a motion and somebody seconded to reappoint the following members to the Development Review Board for terms of three years. Peg Bowen, term expiring 2024. Barbara Whedon, term expiring 2024. Stephanie Kaplan, term expiring 2024. And Anne Winchester as alternate member, term expiring 2024. Also, I had as a separate motion, but I can incorporate it to appoint Dot Howling as a member to the Development Review Board to fill the remainder of the vacant position expiring in 2022. The motion was voted and passed unanimously. Okay, so we need a, who seconded Rick's motion? I'll second. Okay. Select board members, are you ready to vote? Rick? Aye. And let the record reflect that I'm abstaining from voting. Sharon? Aye. John? Yes. And Cliff? Aye. And thank you again, everyone, for your continued commitment and Dot to your new commitment to serving a town. We really appreciate it. Well, thanks. Nice meeting all of you who I didn't know before. Okay, good night. Thanks everyone. Next up is John McCullough would like to be back as a member of the DAB Design Advisory Board. I think everybody knows John, so I'm sure that's why, Alfred, are you still here? Yes. Is there something more that you want? Are you just listening in on your own time? I was wondering about the reopening town buildings. We're not going to make any decision, a real decision tonight. I'm just kind of getting it on everybody's radar. So there's no decision that's going to happen tonight. Like, you can- Okay, well, if I don't need to- You're welcome to listen though. Okay. Yeah, yeah, well, if I just, if you wanted my comments on that, then I would be, that's what I was waiting for, but if you don't, I would- Yeah, well, I think we'll probably have it on the agenda again on the 14th. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Very good. Have a good night. Thanks, Alfred. Good night everybody. Thanks, Alfred. Bye, Alfred. Bye, Alfred. Bye now. Anyways, is there a motion to appoint John McCullough as a member of the DAB? What's the term? What's the term? He would fill the vacant position expiring in 2023. Who vacated? Well, it was his, I think it was his position that was vacant. Okay, yeah, I thought he was, yeah, right. Okay. Right, yeah. I'll make that motion. Yeah. I'll second it. I'll second it. Okay, are you ready to vote? Rick? Aye. I'm an aye. Sharon? Aye. John? Yes. And Cliff? Aye. Okay, next up, planning commission. This would be to reappoint Melanie Keen and Gary Roots. I will make that motion. Well, actually it's conflict of interest for me, isn't it? It's my wife. Yeah, I don't know that it's a conflict of interest. I think it's a conflict of interest. You're not serving on the same capacity, but I can make the motion if that works better. That would be good. Can you reappoint Melanie Keen and Gary Roots as members of the planning commission? I'll second it. I'll second it, okay. Rick, are you voting or are you doing like I did in that stage? I will abstain just out of... Okay, thank you. I'm an aye. Sharon? Aye. John? Yes. And Cliff? I'm an aye. Can we state the term for the record? Yeah, Katie, do you have the term? Yes, Melanie Keen term beginning in 2020 and expiring in 2024 and Gary Root term expiring in 2025. They're for your terms. Thank you. Okay, so I would add that as part of my motion. All right, next up, swim committee. Yee-ha, there's gonna be swimming this year. Hey, Daniel, you're on mute. Oh, I see, sorry about that. Yeah, with a little luck. Yeah. We're having a little bit of difficulty getting interested instructors who are also in a position to get certified. So I place our odds at about even at the moment that we'll still be able to move forward. Okay, but in the meantime, we can appoint the committee. And these are one-year terms. Does somebody else wanna make the motion or I can do it? I'll make the motion. Okay, so would you like to make the motion to include the names that are on the agenda? Yeah, do you have those handy, Katie? Yes, it's Daniel Keeney, Pam Kentish and Jess, well, to reappoint Daniel Keeney and then to appoint Pam Kentish and Jess Rich to the swim committee for a term of one year, all terms expiring 2022. That's my motion. Okay, I will second. Okay, any further questions or comments? All right, Rick? Rick? Hi. I'm an I, Sharon? Hi. John? Yes. And I'm, and Cliff? Hi. Okay, there we go. You're good to go. Good luck getting the instructor and getting one that's certified. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Thank you. I think Barbara's on too. I just wanted to put this on the agenda so that it's on our horizon of coming up with a plan to start looking at reopening of the town-owned buildings we have. We've had one request for a wedding in August, another request for as soon as possible to have some kind of a music performance. It is, his name is, help me, Barbara. It's Otto's somebody. I can't remember his last name. Barbara, are you there? Barbara? Yeah, sorry about that. Otto Mahler. And what is it? I forget what it is. He's some kind of a brand. He composed a piece of music that reflects the history of Calis and he was wanting to do it at the Kent Museum because I think some of the recording or it has something to do with the old Robinson Sawmill but the Kent Museum is under construction. So he's looking to do a concert to premiere his original composition that reflects the history of Calis. Sounds pretty cool. Yeah, sounds very cool. Yeah. So we've got things coming up. I know different various boards and commissions are anxious to start using the downstairs for meetings. So we need to come up with a plan of when we plan to reopen for the public use of the building and for boards and commissions. So I didn't expect that we would make a decision tonight but we need to probably, if we could possibly make a decision on the 14th, that would be great. What are your thoughts, board members? Rick? I just would, would we tie it to, I mean, we're definitely getting to the point where they're pretty soon we'll be opening things up generally. So do we tie it to the governor? Yeah, we would have to follow. Yeah, we've been right along. We've been following the governor's executive order and following CDC guidelines. So I think we're almost there with what the governor's expecting for vaccinations and CDC has already said, if you're vaccinated, you don't have to have a mask. But I think as a town, we need to decide, oh, Barbara's better than that. But so anyways, I wanted to get input from board members. I see Cliff had his hand up. Yeah. So I was not at the meeting, but I know at the last meeting, the select board approved having a special meeting with the friends of the Callis Town Hall. At that meeting, the friends were planning on presenting three documents. One would be the usage, revised usage policy for the town hall. The second would be the revised management agreement. And the third, which wouldn't necessarily require the select board's approval, but just for the select board's information, the rental agreement that the manage the friends of town hall would be using within anyone who wanted to rent the hall, making sure that there weren't any concerns or areas that weren't covered in the rental agreement, allowing the select board to weigh in accordingly. For reopening the hall, I think the most important... Cliff disappeared. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I don't even know. Barbara, do you know what he was gonna say? I do not know what he was going to say. Oh dear. But you wanted to say something, so why don't you go ahead while Cliff's talking back. Oh, okay, all right. So also, I would like to just have the select board thinking about what we're going to do in celebration of several different things. And this is related to the town hall one. And I understand we're following the governor's guidelines and the health officers recommendations and so forth, but one, we have several things to celebrate. One is Judy Robert's retirement, as well as the election of a new town clerk, as well as two recent select board departures, Rose and Cliff. And then just the end of, kind of the end of COVID, the beginning of our new reality. And so we were, I was wondering if we could maybe have a townwide celebration at the town hall that would not represent a grand reopening of the town hall. The friends would do that at a later date, but it could be kind of the summer, end of COVID, Judy Robert, Cliff, Rose, the new town clerk, a lot of things together. Yeah, okay. So we, Barbara was just telling us about an idea that she had been where you were signing back in Cliff. Yeah, sorry about that. My computer crashed. Oh dear. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that something we need to keep in mind is reopening the town hall. We should definitely have our policy for usage of the town hall in place. Given that we need to alter the timeframe of how these documents are going to be presented and discussed by the select board, it's conceivable that what we want to do is review the proposed revised usage policy, get the select board approval on that and then that will segue as planned into the appointed date for the discussion with the friends of town hall. And are you saying that that document should be in place before we reopen it? I'm not sure I'm following. It's my opinion that it should be in place before we reopen the hall. Right, because we have that. It is a document that would be owned by the select board and controlled by the select board and it really sets the guidelines for what can happen at the hall and what the expectations are for anyone using the hall regardless of whether they're renting it or a member of one of the town commissions. It dots the eyes and crosses the T's and protects our investment that we made in rebuilding the town hall. Yeah, I see what you're saying because we need somebody. I don't want to have to schedule weddings and concerts. So we need it. That's a separate issue, the management agreement and the rental stuff. That is what we work out in the management agreement with the friends of, but the usage policy is a town policy that is set by the select board and it controls everything else that happens there has to fall in line with the policy that I will be presenting to the select board. Okay, I see what you're saying. And we also need to check in when we have further discussions on when I get the town health officer at least to be part of the discussion and so forth. Sharon? I was just pulling it open. I don't remember what's in it, but we do have guidelines for use of the town hall and I don't know their sparse, but we did them in 2017 whether they serve adequately in an interim window. No, no, no, no. There are requirements that were made as a result of the revised use permit that was granted and we have to acknowledge those. And yeah, it's that document that you're looking at, Sharon, was based upon a very different town hall. No, that was the old one. No, no, no, I'm Cliff, 150% will defer to your judgment on that, but it makes me think then that we should actually rescind this document and get it off our website. It should have, if it's the correct document on the website, it should say that the town hall is closed right now. No, I'm looking for guidelines for use of the Cowist Town Hall from June, 2017. Right, and if the correct version of that document, it should say that the hall is closed. If you're looking on the website, Sharon. It's... If she is looking on the website, what I'm understanding is the document that's on the website is not the correct document. Sounds what it sounds like. That's then, then we, then, yeah. And it needs to, that's the second incorrect document I found on our list today. Yeah, well... I'll coordinate that with Judy. Okay, so do we... I mean, they're working on trying to get the website cleaned up. Yeah, but if this is such an issue right now, right? With all these requests, then do we have to formally rescind and can we do that without that being an agenda item? It was already formally rescinded. It's just, we've got the incorrect document on the website. Okay. All right, so really tonight was all about getting everybody thinking about reopening the hall. So Cliff, we, at your request, we agreed to meet with the friends on the 21st. It sounds like maybe the policy piece of it that's owned by the select board we could maybe look at on the 14th. The plan was to present the documents on the 14th to the select board, let the select board have a week to live with them and then have the meeting with the friends group. I think the only thing that changes now is we get the usage, revised usage policy in front of the select board a little sooner so that we can approve that document at the meeting on the 14th. Yeah, that would make sense to me, timing-wise. And just reminder, guys, I'm away on the 14th. Oh, that's right. Okay. All right, so Cliff. Sharon, excuse me, Denise, Sharon, when, how soon do you leave before the 14th? Cause maybe, you know, if I get the document to the select board in advance of the 14th you would at least have a chance to review it and weigh in with anything you might wanna have to say. Yeah, that would be good. Yep, no, I'm happy to. Anya graduates on the 7th and after that I'm out of pocket for about 10, okay. So starting like from the 6th on. Okay, so we need to get the usage policy in front of you the first week of next month. Yeah, first week of June. Okay, I think that's doable. All right, thank you, Cliff. Thank you, Barbara. I don't know, oh, Barbara, you're still here, okay. Thank you guys for being the friends of the town hall. Yeah. We're friendly people. Huh? We're friendly people. Well, of course you are. Everybody in Calis is friendly, aren't they? Yes. The most part is what I thought. All right, so any other quick update or would the board like to go back into executive session for about 20 minutes, I hope? So move. And this is discussed for now matters. Second. Okay, vote, Rick. Hi. I'm an eye, Sharon. Hi, John. Yes. And Cliff. Hi. Okay, thank you, Katie. Good night, everybody. Good night. Have a good one. Thanks, Orca. Are you, did you shut Orca off? Working on it.