 Hi, everybody. Welcome back from break. I know it's hard on the second day of the conference to pull yourself away from those critical conversations, but this is going to be, I think, a really good one. We are, I've been sitting and listening this morning, and one thing I heard from a few people next to me was on some of the panels, not all, was sort of, oh, this is very US focused, and we are pulling you out now of the US, and really talking about global energy perspectives with two people who are doing work in critical countries, China and India, but also all over the world, and really going from the macro to putting these technologies in the ground, putting these technologies into the market. So I'm very, very excited about the panel. Thank you both for being here. So to my right, I have Zhang Lei, who is the CEO of Envision Energy, and Envision Energy he describes to me as an energy technology company, so doing renewables at a very large scale, but also very focused on the internet of things, on IoT and their headquartered in Shanghai, and he will be talking about work they do all over the world, not just in China. And then next to him, Abhijit Sathe, who's the COO of SoftBank Energy, and SoftBank Energy is the global part of the SoftBank Energy world, a headquartered in Delhi, and doing large scale renewable generation as well as EV penetration, again, all over the world, mostly in Asia, I think. And expanding more. And expanding more, and with a fair amount of U.S. technology partnerships as well. So we have a great kind of perspective here going from these big questions we've been talking about for two days on global climate change, global energy, global grid, requirements down really into what does this end up looking at the local level and how do you get it done. So I'm gonna ask both of you, and Lei, I'll start with you. You know, you've been doing this work for a while. What, this panel is about global energy transformation. What do you see in your work out there that you really think is transforming global energy systems? You know, with what Arun's talked about in mind, with what others have talked about, where do you see transformation happening? So we spend recently a lot of time on the energy IOT systems. And the reason, actually since 2012, the reason why we focus so much on the energy IOT is because we, early days, we started with wind turbines. We are so convinced. So renewable energy is going to be dominating. So it's going to give us the almost close to zero cost of energy eventually. So we start to be worried. So what's the future of energy company if you actually have the almost zero cost of energy? So that's true. It's already happening. Now you see the UT scale solar is close to three cents. And if we're doing the renewable energy, wind energy in the Mongolia, so we see the cost of energy is reaching around 1.5 cents per kilowatt hour. So it's, it's just only like, renewable energy is basically like teenagers. It's starting like 2000. So teenagers are already being so dominating, invasive. So I started to worry. So when, what will be most expensive things in such a free energy system? So then I realized, okay, you could have zero cost of energy, but you are going to have a huge cost of synergy. The synergy actually somehow utility friend just mentioned. So you see the gas pump, they have a big challenge to run little time. And the great utility is worry about stability. So when the renewable energy kicking, so our energy system has become very fragmented. So more or less, if you reach 50 or 80% renewable energy, so this is going to be dominant, not about renewable energy, it's about the weather, weather system. And by billions of solar panels, charge point and wind turbines and EVs. So this is such a chaotic system. So how can you organize such chaotic system? So there's synergy. How do you synchronize your supply, your demand with the supply is a key. That's why I say, okay, we are shifting from cost of energy to cost of synergy. It's a really interesting point. We talk a lot about the shift to renewables being one where we shift from paying for energy over a long time to paying for capital costs and then free energy. But you're really making this additional point of, yes, and then when the energy is essentially free, there's all of this integration that then becomes a new challenge with new actors and new companies and new innovations. That's really a great point. Abhijit, what do you think that, where do you think the big transformations are happening? So I think, having worked in other parts of the world, the developed parts of the world, now I'm working in parts of the world and speaking of teenagers where the population of youth is at the highest India, Africa and a few other countries. And these are also underdeveloped economies. So they're growing at some of the highest rates today, seven to eight, nine percent. And so what you're seeing is, the previous infrastructure obviously can keep up with the youth and the increasing demand for energy coming from the growth. And so like a revolution that probably took place 20 years ago in these parts of the world on telecom, where instead of laying copper wires and having telephone network like we have here, I think these countries are basically hopping that entirely and going instead of investing into the traditional type of resources, which obviously some countries now are against nuclear. Others may not want coal. Some others just care about low cost. But what's happening is, there is a massive revolution going on in these countries. The demand we're talking about. So I've worked, for example, in the US for about 10 years. We've built largest plants so many times. Generally the plants were like five, 10, 20, 50, 100, 120 megawatts. Now, the territories that we are operating in, typical plant size is probably a few hundred megawatts at the lowest because the demand is such, because the projected growth and the youth demanding electricity and the lifestyle is such. So that's one aspect you see is underdeveloped economies growing substantial percentage of people under 25 in that part of the world. The second thing is, any of us can open up and look at Delhi where my office currently is and look at what the Apple thing says right under Delhi. Probably says hazardous air quality. This is all too common in the area. So for example, I was once observing the three cities that I shuttled between were pretty much three in top five, worst air quality. So whether there is the awareness that is existing in the world and where there would be value put on carbon, which I don't think it is, cost dominates, which is actually the third dynamic that goes on. I think people are realizing that whether they speak about it and put a value on it and give money for carbon or not, pollution is definitely a part that is playing on people's mind in these parts of the world. And the third one is cost. These happen to be territories where even three cents is too expensive, right? So and there is probably not enough money for carbon credits and things like that. So that naturally creates the necessity to drive the cost down. And a lot of times people approach cost down as let's cut things out but that's really not the way to look at it. It's about innovating and innovating faster. And so what you see is incredible innovation and even that innovation, the way you target it is very different. For example, a lot of innovation can be targeted at reducing labor costs because labor costs in other parts of the world are significantly higher just to give you a sense. Indian labor cost compared to US labor cost for a solar project is somewhere between five and 10 X less. So why would I put a little bit more cap X and take out labor? I might do other things. So the innovation gets targeted very differently. And then the fourth dynamic that we're seeing in terms of trends and revolution going on is what they talked about. Just like the telephone paradigm, the previous infrastructure wasn't there. So when you start talking about grids, super grids and connectivity and using these things as efficiently as you can so that you don't get into at least today storage that's far too expensive to solve some of these problems. Renewable and storage have to be paired. We all generally speaking can get behind that. But the cost of storage is too high right now. So these countries and territories that are actually going mass scale renewables and what is impressive to say for example is California obviously sitting at about 30, 35% renewables and on given days it's even 50%. But even in countries like India, that percentage at a country level is now exceeding 20%. So when you start talking about that and you say all right, it's all intermittent generation. How are you gonna fight intermittency and what are you gonna do at night? There things about storage and using all the renewable resources effectively and bringing down the need for a very expensive storage. Those types of things also start going into innovation. So those are sort of broadly the four themes along which we're seeing global innovation going and going a little bit differently compared to the western part of the world. There's a lot of food for thought there but what you were talking about was making me think just about something we've talked a lot preparing for this panel which is just the profoundly local nature of how these things play out in the different countries where you're working. And like can you talk a little bit and then Abhijit a little bit about sort of how the kind of existing, the population, the energy mix, the existing economies of the places that you're working, how does that affect what you can and can't do? So you're going into a place with a renewable project and the default question in most of the rest of the world though not as much here anymore is coal, right? As a cheap energy source and you're kind of coming in saying we have another way. How do you make that argument? Can you give some examples of places you've done that or how you think that plays out? So long term planning is very critical. So that's why I mentioned it. So when even in the early days of renewable energy we started planning the energy IoT system. So for any country or any company you should are really thinking much long ahead. So to avoid you are being trapped in such difficult situation. So that's planning is most critical thing. Well, and just to push on that a little bit, how do you make a case for, and Abhijit you can jump in on this too, how do you make a case for long term planning in a place with short term political cycles? And frankly in a situation where you're replacing in some cases a very labor intensive industry that's mining dependent, transportation dependent, continual extraction dependent with something that has a fair amount of labor at the beginning but may not have as much going forward. How do you make that long term argument in that political context? Very difficult, a great point by the way. So for example we deal with the Indian government at hundreds of gigawatt type of scale but there is a political cycle in India that's about every five years and right now the next set of elections is in next May. And as it happens here the existing government doesn't wanna take any risks and sign long term contracts. So yes, it is hampered tremendously. So I think you have to live with that reality a little bit and obviously we will have to be very smart about when the elections are over to hit people up about policy more than year three or year four of their term. But I think for example Indian electricity base load comes from coal, right? They have lots of installed gas capacity but they don't have gas. So much of the capacity is actually shuttered, right? So and then the Indian coal as a raw material going into these plants has a lot of lignite and it doesn't have as high a calorific value. So these are actually local realities but despite of that since it is base load since we are intermittent generation I think the only way we've learned to fight when you get into these conversations with the government like the department of power and things like that is basically to be better on merit without subsidy. There is no subsidy and the easiest way to fight this is that and this is where the previous point I made which is incredible cost pressure and of course we're building 25 year assets. We all wanna do a good job about building and living up to that headline. Then it all comes to innovation, technology innovation. That's a great point and Leigh, from your perspective back to your long term point do you find, I mean you do a fair amount of work in China and other places in China do you find the five year planning process to be helpful in terms of long term planning and making those arguments? Is that a helpful overlay to the politics of kind of doing this work in China or is it still basically back to Abhijit's point you just have to compete on the cost? Yeah I think China also have this kind of five years planning and I'm not sure whether it's helpful or not but at least you should really have the long term thinking. So from an envision point of view is so now what we are thinking today is not even beyond energy IOT. We are thinking beyond energy. So in the future when in a renewable energy society what is the most valuable things because cost of energy is zero, very close to zero maybe but so what is the most needed for the society? Probably it's not energy but energy become the real commodity. How do you convey this service based on energy? So something we recently we have seen we're providing the IOT operating system for Singapore's migration. So we are thinking beyond energy because we say okay now our energy IOT system is connecting 100 millions of devices. The first step is we are helping the energy efficiency produce more energy or saving more energy. And the second step because this energy IOT is the gateway to the machine network. You're now able to control the machine you can do all the kind of machine efficiency. Make a machine more reliable, more predictive maintenance. Then after that you can even achieve this operation efficiency. So then how can you create energy or not energy is a machine social network. Create a machine networking platform so to achieve this operation efficiency. So these kind of things so as a leader of energy industry we should see should really go beyond today's situation it's not backward looking. And then you see someone said okay so the utility industry is still quite is a robust model. I don't think so. It's on the biggest challenge. All in the gas companies think about hydrogen, ammonium, think about fuel cell and EV companies coming they want to be a new type of energy service provided like Tesla like Nissan. So and the community solar, community wing is find another angle and the digital company also want to play inside. So that's lots of fusion coming. So what we think energy company is you cannot be a pure energy company anymore. Or more companies will become energy companies that weren't prior utilities. So we just heard GM is becoming an energy company to some extent. So utility is becoming volatility. So it's becoming electricity company. There's a question from the audience that I think is related to this and related to what you both said about both competing on cost and some of the innovations you're talking about which is and to your point Abhijit about India not having the gas resources. Which is do you think some of these developing countries will leapfrog over gas? Will essentially go from coal to renewables without this quote unquote bridge fuel that we have here that's been such a huge part of the revolution here. Abhijit you want to go to that? A very interesting question. So I think there is no one size fit all so just give a couple of examples right. So one of the territories we are working in is in Saudi Arabia. So guess what? There is no coal and there's a lot of gas and you try to tell them alternatives to gas. It doesn't work very well. And I think you know you go to coal country and you say the opposite you know you're probably not easily gonna replace coal. So in areas like this we're being given a challenge to say my base load is coal. Can you beat my variable cost only? So it becomes and by the way you know there's a lot of talk about innovation and things like that. On the consumer on the selling side you're selling an electron. It is a commodity. People can't differentiate you know in the western world people would value if it's coming from a clean resource. In other countries you don't even have the choice to select where your energy is coming from. So eventually it will get there. It is not there today. But you know in terms of will gas replace coal I think it's a very very localized answer depending on the resources available. I do think that in countries where gas dominates it will be such as KSA, Saudi Arabia. It'll be very difficult but eventually one would. And you know in areas where coal is easily available you know I think people have realized you know especially in some parts of the world. I think it'll still be a tough conversation for us to come in and as in renewable industry to come in and beat that. But I think you're just gonna have to beat it head on and at a cost that is lower than their variable cost. I had one comment on gas. Go ahead please. Because you know so one speaker mentioned about the gas provides capacity. And what I think is not limited to the capacity. Capacity is not only about the physical capacity. Someone we should be able to providing the digital capacity. That's why IOT is so important. The digital capacity is very similar to today's Uber or Lyft model. So in a very fragmented energy world how are you able to orchestrate these devices to create a digital capacity and create these dynamic things for pricing. Well and that's related to another question from the audience but also I've been thinking as you've been talking. Leigh and your vision, sorry for the future. You know what role did these big transformations that Arun talked about play? The battery, lithium ion batteries and storage. Can you create the world you're talking about without a dependence on batteries? What does that look like? And I'm gonna just add layers on this. And what role did EVs play in that? And specifically in developing areas where EVs are a much bigger part of the market. Does that become a backup batteries thing for you? Does that get integrated into your vision? How do you see all that play out? Great question is, so I have something to add on Arun's comment. He mentioned by 2022 so we are able to reach $100 per kilo hour but I say we're going to arrive much early. By 2020 we are able to deliver the cost of about $100. So because we are recently we've just bought a Japanese battery company so we are very detailed and I analyze this trends of cost. So we are able probably by 2025 to achieve 50 US dollar per kilo hour. You know what that means? That means by 2020 when you, because think about 10 years ago you have 1,000 US dollar per kilo hour. 2020 you have 100 US dollar per kilo hour. Make your capex on the car is almost similar to the diesel car. By 2025 you only have another half. Your capex on the EV is going to be much cheaper, 20 or 30% cheaper than diesel car. So overnight people is going to change because there's a consumer market. And what I can tell you is in China every year is about 30 million cars coming to the market. So if this changed overnight, stimulating car, if assumed every car has 50 kilowatt batteries, this capacity is going to 1,500 gigawatt capacity. You know what that means for China? The historical accumulative generation capacity for China is 1,800 gigawatt. So within a year you have to double your capacity. For the last 30 years or 40 years, that's a huge impact for the energy system. That's why I say EV is going to be a fundamental challenge on today's energy system. How are you going to, if this car charging at the same time or even say charging randomly is big headache for the utility for grid. So that's why IoT and the plus AI, that's why I say AI, AIoT is very critical for the future. To help you to distributing this energy, charging, discharging, balancing grid, and also taking into account of the weather pattern and also about temperature things, then it's a very quick, it's kind of a very sophisticated system you need AI to solve that. So bringing on this huge amount of new demand but you're thinking sort of how do you make that a, how do you have that become a benefit instead of a challenge? Yeah, true. So you can turn challenge into the benefit. Right, right, right. So that's why, so I say. You have the systems that integrate. Yeah, I add on the AIoT is going to the fourth biggest trend for the energy industry because this is renewable battery is acting on this supply side or demand side. And the share gas and supply of demands but you should act on something on the system side. That's the digital IoT plus AI. Well, I want to get back to that but Abhijit, I have a question specifically for you from the audience, which is, unless you want to weigh in on this question, in which case you can. But that's. Yeah, just different aspect of it. I think, you know, every time we talk about energy storage naturally batteries come to mind but I think to answer the question, from a technology perspective, I think that's just going to be a small part of the solution. I think there may be many different ways in which energy can be stored or redistributed as is necessary at times. And I think the cost of batteries will ensure that batteries at the moment are not the only solution. So you might get all variety of solution, demand response, you might get hybrid systems where you're combining few resources such as wind and solar where they're complimentary and then pumping it into the grid that way. You know, I think all of the above is going to happen. I think liquid air, compressed air, flywheel, pumped hydro. I think they're all going to be part of the portfolio. Great, so sort of everything and answer. Yeah. You know, this is a question, switching gears a little bit toward policy. This is a question that comes from several of you out there who've asked about sort of policy environments and the role of policy. Amagita, I'm going to put this on you because you made the point that things had to compete without subsidy. How do I phrase this? So California has gotten where it is in large part because of the policy environment. It's a combination of policy innovation and market creation. They're all working sort of together with the regulatory environment. How do you think about the role of policy in moving what you're talking about, moving renewables faster? And then the particular question was, what do you think about India's potential to use the social cost of carbon? Is it starting to happen more and more to incorporate some of those air quality impacts that you were talking about and pollution impacts and actually just a speed adoption, change the cost curve a bit? Yeah. So interestingly, you know, it's a place where it should but it doesn't. There is, you don't get any, there used to be a rec system that is rec. There is no additional benefit you get. So the government, when they announced like 100 gigawatt by 2022 type of target, they really, there's zero subsidy and there is zero value being put on reducing carbon emissions and things like that. So I think in these territories, and we're seeing the same thing in other geographies that we're expanding to, some in Middle East and some in Africa. I think at the end of the day, between there being political will, political consensus, even to put maybe extra cost on gross polluters, there may be laws and they just don't get followed. So for example, Knox and Sox emissions coming from other sources, there actually is a law and we have realized that people are not actually paying that penalty. So as an industry or as a company, then you just go and decide, all right, I just have to take this head on and bring the cost where you basically just beat the alternate sources. And we are there now. I mean, we're below where cost of generation is where the issue right now is. We're not a 24-7 supply. Coal can be or gas can be or nuclear can be. You know, it's interesting you talking about the enforcement side really. I was talking to somebody recently about the Indian government structure and heard this may or may not be true, but I was struck by it, that the entire sort of EPA-like regulatory structure, the number of staff is less than in California. That's correct. For the entire country, which is amazing if you think about the enforcement issues. And in China, actually that was true till fairly recently as well, very small enforcement arm for environmental regulation. What do you think, Leigh, about this question of policy? What role do you see? And I wanna ask you specifically, it's also related to a question from the audience. You've kind of talked about blowing up the utility model and all of these companies coming in and different pieces of this being owned by different people. What does the regulatory structure look like for that? If you were to wave a wand and say, here's how I would design the policy and regulatory environment for all of these actors coming into this new kind of grade of the future, what would that look like? Yes, no, we need an imagination of that. And for me, I don't care too much about policy. Because policy is always slow. You realize I do policy for them? Yeah, policy is always slow. I won't take that personally. And take too much about the select issues, balancing. Sometimes policies tend to be balancing. So I believe in this market force and technology. The reason, so that's why I'm so keen on this EV revolution. So it's kind of fundamental bottom-up change. Totally, so then policy, what I can expect, they're going to still react, but they're going to react much faster. Today's policy is not proactive enough, but they are going to force to react much faster. Well, EVs will force the mobility side to go faster, right? I mean, EVs will change, will force the transition from combustion vehicles, but in countries like China, EVs are still running mostly on coal. So what is it that forces the renewable side to go faster while the EV side is going faster? So that's actually, is about, you see that China have every year is taking about 50% of renewable installation for globally. And still the coal is a quite dominant factor. And what we can say in China is, probably is we, again, this is kind of revolution starting to start from the edge. So starting from this distributed solar. For instance, previously no policy on distributed solar. So overnight in 2016, so distributed solar, or 2017 last year, it suddenly has 30 gigawatt installation. And then policy maker realize, this is going to big trouble on energy system. They start to make a policy to actually to continue this distributed solar. So what I want to say is, so you always have to find a way starting from the edge, starting from the grass roots, start from the different cross-function, cross-industrial revolution. That's why EV is about, again, for coal issue, I think. So once we make renewable energy, it's so cost competitive. Now government realize, okay, now renewable energy, you don't need a substice. You and the grid company also welcome to that because it gives them great incentive to build high voltage transmission line as well. So you are able to ship two cents renewable energy from Inner Mongolia to Shanghai. So that's actually everyone benefit. Right. Well, I feel, and I feel the need to defend my poor policy world here for just a second by saying the reason I would argue that solar's gotten as cheap as it is is in large part because of the German feed-in tariff and Chinese manufacturing policy, both of which were policies. So as well as US renewable energy standards and other things. So we may be able to leave it behind now but it helped us get where we are. So let's have a little moment of thanks for the policy world. Avicii, given your kind of, you guys are building very big and you're building in a lot of places. Where, can you talk about, but India and also some of the other places you're working, where do you see the biggest bottlenecks to renewable scale? I think, and I would list in order of priority. Unfortunately, I make too many slight decks. Policy, land and grid in that order. Policy is a huge problem in terms of, the PPA is essentially part of whatever the government wants to offer. A lot of times because utilities are controlled by governments in most of these countries. So that is a huge bottleneck right now for us. Acquiring land in highly populous countries makes a lot of sense and then infrastructure. We all are familiar with curtailments happening in a variety of countries. And I think the non-enforcement issue is very different from the Western world. I was in a conference on storage about three months ago in California and it was heartening for me to talk about people honoring contracts and things like that. A lot of times contracts don't even have the value of the paper they're written on in some of these other countries. So those are real problems of doing business in these countries. So rule of law as well as enforcement, right? Land, for example, I have a live project and there's a hut in the middle of a critical plot where I just suddenly can't build for six months. It's not even belonging to the person who chose to build a hut. In fact, my team sometimes jokes with me, Abhijit, we should get in the business of building these huts in the middle of solar power plants. We have such good questions. I'm trying to integrate them as much as I can but you also are sparking more. Just before I go to my next one, Leigh, do you have any kind of big challenges that you're seeing, any specific examples of where you're seeing challenges to scale? Any of the places you're working in? You do a lot of work in, I know Denmark and Europe and sort of where do you see some of the big challenges? I'm the current energy world. Scaling up renewables and to your sort of vision of the sort of integrated renewable economy. Let's put it that way. Yeah, I think, at least I can comment something is on the U.S., is also on the European utilities. I find that European utilities are quite different to the U.S. utilities. So we work a lot with Danish grid companies, Norwegian grid companies, also German, DSO, TSO and also utilities. I find the U.S. side is relatively slow on this adaptive to this renewable energies. So, and I try to figure out what's actually behind that is so I still, I'm still, and also on China side is China utility is basically controlled by the grid companies. Yeah, and the generation and so lots of the big utility generation companies say now as they're shifting a lot on the renewable productions. But the good thing is, so renewable energy got its cost advantage, so now they're mainly producing the renewable energy. So, but it's also, all the utility around the world is quite actually slow move. So that's actually, I have a big expectation on the EV. So because consumer now is the first time, billions of consumers, so they are going to overnight to challenge this energy system. And they, everyone also have a chance to change the color of electricity because in the past, consumer say okay, there's gasoline in my tank, it's just one way. So now you have become two ways for your energy and also you are able to choose what's the color of the energy in my battery side. So then this is going to create lots of new business model, create lots of new dynamics. So that's a, so then I think it's, there's some fundamental, we'll start changing. Thank you, that's a great answer. We're going down to three minutes. I'm, so many questions. One of the things that a couple of people in the audience want to talk about is nuclear. So I'm gonna go to you, because I did not know this, but one of our audience members knows that India has one of the largest abundance of thorium in the world. So now we've all learned something from one of you. Given that, and also just given the large, we haven't said the words climate change, but the overlay of this entire conversation and conference is we need to get, and we'll hear from Chris Field on this too, we need to get to a place where we are lower carbon, we're using less carbon, we're sequestering more carbon. Nuclear is a carbon free alternative. What is your thinking on nuclear's role in all of this? So, I think about two ways, right? Obviously I work for SoftBank, and SoftBank being a Japanese corporation, some of you guys might know about our CEO Masayoshi Son, how he was impacted by the nuclear accident in Japan many years ago. So nuclear is a no-no in our company, and from, I'm sure there are several people in the audience who think of it a little differently, and I think that's a good view as well. When it relates to India, I think two problems crop up. Number one is the cycle time of building a power plant, even though it might be big, could be 10, 15, and in India it could be even longer, because the earlier process, the bureaucratic process of land acquisition, environmental permitting itself can take quite some time. So, compare that with other things, such as, for example, solar, which is what we do in large scale. One amazing thing about all these large plants that we build is we built a 580 megawatt plant in four and a half months, and the cost is very, very competitive. In fact, it beats most of the other sources. So right now, I think people realize that abundant of wasteland, abundance of wasteland, 300 plus clear sunny days, et cetera, et cetera, which way would you go? So yes, I think thorium is definitely a strength from a natural resource perspective for India. I don't think there'll be zero nuclear, but I think nuclear would probably be under a percent when it's all flushed out. Do you want to add another one? I think nuclear is great technology, but the thing about the nature of energy is about great technology, is about green and cheap energy for everyone. So that's solar and the wind and the batteries. So that one fundamental nature is a kind of modular approach, simple and modular. So it's not like a nuclear or gas power plant is very sophisticated. So it's great technology, but it's difficult to duplicate and repetition. So that's why people can make a solar panel so cheap, can make a battery so cheap, because, and also making everyone to own the solar panel and the battery. So nuclear, you can own a nuclear station, but everyone now can own a solar station and own an EV or own one battery. So that's why the cost of energy for renewables is going down dramatically. But look at the nuclear, actually the cost is going up for the last 10 years. Well, and this is, we are at time, but I will say this last answer really underscored something we've been talking about throughout, which is first, that companies are profoundly local. Where companies are headquartered actually really matters. Your stance on nuclear is very specific and it influences where you do investment in what you do. And similarly, countries have their own very specific approaches to these technologies. So I think that's useful to just remember. We have a global trend, set of global trends, but all of them play out differently in different places for cultural and political and economic reasons. And then your final point, I think is a really good one, just on the distributed nature, not just of the business model, but the distributed nature of the technology. Join me in thanking our great panelists, Leigh and Abhijit, on a good conversation.