 So I want to return to the issue of attention, the new economy, psychology in a second. But let's talk about debt. And this is something that you talk about extensively in the new book. It's beyond dispute that we have record levels of household debt, financial sector debt, banks and so on, and sovereign debt with nations. Why is that? Why is everybody in more debt more or less than ever before? I think it has to do with the need to keep the system expanding. Capital is about growth. It has to grow at 3% a year, and that's a compound rate of growth, which means that it's actually going to accelerate over time and become faster and faster. It's got to do that. And the only way it can do that is by actually discounting the future into the present. And the way you do that is you issue debt. And debt is a claim on future labor. So what it is is if you're in debt to me, then you've got to work it off. And so what we're doing to students and others, putting them in debt is putting them in situations where they have to work it off. And that means the freedom of choice disappears. And this is what I call anti-value, being mobilized by capital to make sure that value gets produced. So corporations are in debt, they've got to get paid off. And so they've got to go into production, or they've got to go into activity somehow or other to find enough money to pay off their debt. So the acceleration of debt has a lot to do with the fact that the only way in which capital can satisfy its requirement or a 3% growth rate forever is by increasing the money supply and increasing the money that's available. And one of the ways in which you do that is to issue more debt. And in effect, we've got into what's called a kind of Ponzi economy where we borrow a lot of money this year to pay off our last year's debt. And then we pay even more money next year to pay off this year's debt. So the piling up of debt right now. And I think it's very interesting that Mexico, when it got into debt in 1982, I think it got into debt with about 80 or 90% of the debt with 80 or 90% of GDP. And this was considered catastrophic. Now the whole world is in-depth to the tune of something like 225 or 240% of the world's GDP. And nobody does anything. Everybody kind of says, well, this is normal. Well, even Germany, right, has, you know, allegedly frugal Germany has 70, 80% GDP. Yeah, right. Yeah. Most people say that's perfectly good. That's fine. That's all. That's absolutely wonderful. But what's going on, for instance, in China is amazing. The amount of debt in China has accelerated hugely. And it's now up to around 250% of GDP in China. The only thing about the Chinese is that they're in debt in their own money, which means they could just print more of their own money if they want to, you know, so they're not going to get caught out like Greece got caught out. So this is, I think, a very important point to make about contemporary capitalism, that what is the driving force of contemporary capitalism is no longer the greed of the individual entrepreneur or the desire to make a buck. I mean, yeah, that's still there. And it's no longer the state sort of organizing welfare and organizing the commanding heights of the economy as they did in social democracy with nationalized industries in the 1960s. It's no longer that. The big thing since the 1970s has been the creation of this debt economy, which locks people in to a future. So, you know, we're looking at the future where everything is pretty much foreclosed around the fact that we're going into a world of debt peonage. You, I, and everybody else is debt peonage. This was a subject image that had to be really assiduously sort of cultivated from the 1950s, 1960s. People didn't want to get into debt. And there's often a moral critique of that, you know, from the right, they would say, well, if you can't afford it, don't take out the debts. But what you're saying is, well, actually, the fact that everybody's in debt is fundamental to the continued growth under capitalism. And of course, it becomes a mechanism survival. I mean, there's often this phrase about, you know, too big to fail. Well, you know, I even had a friend once who kind of said his plan was to get up so much debt that the banks couldn't possibly bankrupt him. And he did it. And it was a phenomenal kind of thing. I mean, he just borrowed millions and millions and millions. And then things were going bad and the banks were kind of going, well, we can't. We've got to keep him going somehow. There's a line on that, isn't there? Say, if you owe 100 pounds to the bank, that's your problem. If you owe them a million, that's their problem. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And so people, the psychology of this is very different. I mean, I grew up in a world where being indebted was a bad thing. I didn't even want to be indebted by a house when I first got into. And finally, I got indebted, you know, rather late in life, because everything pointed in that way. And by the way, I was being told I was being financially irrational by not going into debt. And I kind of said, well, I like not being indebted. So these things take over and we now live in a society where almost everybody in the younger generation is used to running up debt on their credit cards, running up debt to buy an automobile, running up debt to buy housing, running up debt with department stores and getting different credit cards and using one credit card to pay off another credit card. So the debt economy is kind of becoming incredibly sophisticated and it is a future foreclosed.