 Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in to the Straight Talk Vermont show. I'm Bruce Wilson, Executive Director of Service Render Incorporated. And Straight Talk Vermont is one of our programs for many years. And the cable show is part of it. And I want to make a couple announcements. So those of you who've been to the University Mall and noticed that we have a big red curtain in front of our so wonderful gallery is because we're renovating it. And we're very happy about that. We're going to make it look real nicer in there. And so we can, we'll take it off all these shelves in there and put some flat screens on the wall where you can, you know, we can view the art better. And then we'll have some events in it as well. So stay tuned for that opening to be, and I keep changing the date but I think it's going to be at the end of the month this time. And so I'm here with my very special guest today. And our name is Mara Collins from the Vermont Housing Finance Agency. How are you doing Mara? I'm very good. So happy to be here with you. Thank you very much. We're talking about my favorite subject. Oh, yeah. We're talking about affordable housing. And so let's talk about affordable housing. Now, this is, so you were... There is none. End of show. That's damn right. So let me, there is none for Mara. Hey, you're right. So let me ask you a question though. Affordable housing. What, what is it? First of all, I think it just felt like a good way of saying that, you know, we believe in affordable housing within our agency. Not just, not jerry to see, but everybody's, who was working on so-called using word, affordable housing. Because what is it really, how's that so? How can you come up with that? What's the ratio on, like, you know, from the, you know, trying to stay with the rich real estate to... Yeah. ...the poor. Now that's, now how, how that fit in affordable housing mixing with high-end places or housing or how, how does it work? I don't... Yeah. It, it's always the first question I'm asked, and it's such a good one because it's so fundamental. We all use the term affordable housing, but what do we mean? And really, I like to throw people off their game to say, there is every single house in Vermont is affordable. If you're a gazillionaire, you know what I mean? If Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos or whoever were to show up and want to buy something, something tells me they would not have any trouble. But for the rest of us, not all the housing's affordable. And so what we do is we use a really overly simplistic, problematic, academic standard of what's affordable. We say 30% of household's income should go to their housing plus their utilities. So we all have different incomes and so we all have different number of homes that we'd call affordable and different price points that would be affordable. And we don't just all have different incomes. We'd all have different things going on in our lives. So I have three young children. I have high childcare costs. That means maybe 30% isn't the right number for me. Maybe I need to spend a little less. Maybe I spend more on transportation or health care costs. And so what's affordable to me is going to further be lower and lower number, meaning there's less and less homes that are affordable to me. So we really look at that difference between what folks are earning and what they can afford. That's kind of tricky. It makes sense. 30% is, I think that's pretty high. It's interesting, the number used to be 20% and then the feds moved it to 25% and then they moved it to 30%. And you know why? And it's because they didn't want to pay so much in rental assistance. The Section 8 program at the time was getting too expensive and at the time renters had to pay 20% of their income toward their rent and the federal government, HUD, paid the rest in their Section 8 program and then that cost too much. They said, you can afford to pay 25% and that went on for a while and it's been many, many, many decades since it got shifted to 30%. But like I said, it's not the right number for everyone. And so what we do is we look at, all right, how much are people earning? What's the median income? If we sorted all incomes in order and picked the middle point, how much could they afford and how many homes are renting at that price point or on the market to be purchased at that price point and right now there are not many. Yeah, yeah. So we're talking about affordable housing. So once again, I got to talk about that a little bit more because when you go over people's income, that's what you do, you order income and you say, okay, here's 30% of your income and these other things you have to do to live, your systemic stuff you need. So, but there is a point where it's that your rate of pay don't go up and but the housing go up, everything goes up but you're 30%. I mean, how much, you know, I mean, you're rate of pay. So how can you afford any place, you know, seem like it, you know, because there is no place like that seem like it out. But it probably is, I don't know. Yeah, and that is what we've seen, especially in Chittenden County, where I don't have the numbers in front of me but from the 80s we've looked at, you know, how much pay has gone up on average every year and gosh, I think the number is like 2.5% a year and then rental prices have gone up 4% and home ownership prices have gone up 5%. You know, and I don't have those numbers exactly right but I do know that the housing costs are going up far bigger and so if you were to graph it out, it's like the yawning jaws of an alligator. You know, the difference between incomes and house prices are getting farther and farther apart from each other and so if you're renting, housing is becoming less and less affordable every year and your rent may go up some year and you can't afford it anymore and you need to move and where you're going to go to with the vacancy rate being what it is. There's not a lot of apartments out there. Homeowners have it a little easier in that if they get a fixed rate mortgage then their home prices largely, their mortgage stays the same for 30 years. Now their taxes go up, their utilities may go up, other things may change but that is one reason why a lot of people decide you know what, I need to hop off the roller coaster that is the rental housing market and try to move on to being a homeowner. Yeah that's very important to be a homeowner you know, I think, well, a lot of people, well it's important based on the things you just said but I think also a lot of people just don't want to be, some people just don't want to be a homeowner. So that's the choice you know. So with the Vermont Housing Finance Agency you are the executive director. How many, is it statewide? It is statewide. We were in the early 70s and late 60s there was a new investment opportunity that the federal government came up with and they said every state can use these tax-exempt bonds and finance affordable housing with them but the Save Vermont and every other state in the nation needed to pick an agency to administer that program and so in 1974 the legislature created us and so we were created by statute and the governor appoints our board and the board then hires me and I hire the rest of the staff but otherwise we really don't have a lot of connection to state government. We aren't state employees, we don't get state appropriations every year, we aren't reliant on the state budget or anything like that. We operate completely separately and all the risk of our investments are on our own. We're not under the ratings of the state fully. We instead sell these tax-exempt bonds and we live off those investment earnings as a way of supporting our work, large part. So, wow. We tell them no taxpayers don't give like a dollar or nothing. We don't get direct appropriations. Last year was one of the first times the state wanted us to start up a really innovative weatherization program for renters and owners to button up their homes and they did give us some appropriations to start up that one program but we don't get any kind of ongoing support from the state in that way. Wow. Personally, I think you should, I think you should get some type of funding from people. Well, but the system works the way we have it. I mean, there is a department of housing within the state and there's a state housing trust fund that funds housing and conservation that another organization administers that... So, the state is contributing to housing just not through VHFA directly. There are other things the state has done though. There's a state housing tax credit and we're able to sell those tax credits to fund affordable housing. It all gets really complicated really quickly which is also probably part of the problem is that a lot of this isn't really straightforward. Right. So, do you sell the tax credits to individual banks? Banks and insurance companies and they can write off, it's called the bank franchise fee, banks have to pay a tax on how much they have in deposits and they take a tax credit off that tax bill that they have, that tax liability. And so instead, they invest in affordable housing which is a great thing. So, do you guys do that? Do you invest in... Do you build homes? We have... We work on the home ownership side and the rental side. For home ownership, we're a mortgage lender. So, if you're within our income limits and you want to buy a home within our purchase price limits, then you wouldn't go to VHFA. We don't have branches across state. Instead, we work with participating lenders, credit unions, mortgage companies, banks, and you'd walk into one of those and you'd say, here's my info, here's the kind of home I want to buy, and they would say you qualify for a VHFA loan and we offer up to $15,000 in down payment assistance. So, it's a pretty good deal. And so that bank or credit union will do the mortgage with you and then after that mortgage closes, they turn around and sell that loan to us. On the rental side, we don't make loans to individuals who are trying to rent an apartment, but instead, we give giant loans and these tax credits to developers of affordable rental housing. And so, there's a whole network of affordable housing developers, the Champlain Housing Trust and the Cathedral Square Corporation locally are some nonprofits. There's also Summit Development Group and Snyder Company, some for-profit developers. We have a lot of developers and builders who come to us and get millions of dollars in loans and that helps build the building that becomes the affordable apartments. I know that affordable still kills. Get me a loan. Don't get it as well as I want to. So, weatherization. I used to sit on the board of directors for CBOEO and I had a weatherization program, but what was that about for you guys? What kind of work do you do within that? Yeah, CBOEO and statewide, we have six weatherization assistance program administrators locally and that weatherization program weatherizes homes for people who are lower income. There's an income threshold. Again, we look at, we always judge everything by where the median income is and that serves people at 80% of that median income. So, that's the bottom part of homeowners. The program we were asked to stand up goes above that and serves people who earn 80% of median up to 120% of median income. So, we're trying to hit a kind of more modest income for mantras because there's a lot of homes that need weatherizing and are poor quality and folks are not, they don't earn the kind of money that they can just go get a loan or pay for it on their own. They still need some help, but they're all paid for for free through the weatherization assistance program. So, we're working with Efficiency Vermont and they are providing grant money to help pay for, let's say, half the cost of the project and the other half these households can get a loan for, but it's not a loan to them. We wouldn't look at your income, your credit rating, your assets, anything like that. We instead look at the home and we say, is this home really need to be weatherized? And if their utility bills are really high then it qualifies for this program. And what happens is you pay that back over time on your utility bill. So, we're working with Vermont Gas and a lot of the electric companies in the state so that you pay this back over the long term makes it more affordable. So, do you, part of this, I don't know, you might know, you shouldn't know. Replace windows, you do that, or help repair a foundation. A lot of, you know, I'm just trying to say, a lot of problems occur to, like, whether problems come through the windows, foundation walls, even in tuck pointing on your house or replace sliding, that's part of the weatherization program. You're exactly right, that that's where the needs are. And weatherization often doesn't include those things. It's looking more at insulation, air sealing, things like that. So, around your windows, but not necessarily new windows. But what we often find is that a home that needs weatherization also needs those other kind of repairs you're talking about, foundation work, you know, new roof, something like that. And so, what we're trying to do is work. There are revolving loan funds in the state that are available to folks. And these loan funds are really affordable and their income targeted to folks. We're trying to figure out how to marry these weatherization funds with those programs and bring them together so that at once a home could not only get their weatherization work done, but also the health and safety, the rest of the work that may need to be done on the home. Wow, this just seemed like, I mean, you guys do a lot. How many offices do you have? Just one. And frankly, we're not using it very much right now. Right here in Burlington. Five floors in that place or something, right? No, there are three floors and a lot of people are working remotely, so it's pretty empty right now. But we have 40 employees and we've been around, well, next month we'll turn 48 years old. Check that out. That's good. So, I know you guys do a lot of things and you partner with a lot of organizations. Like, who do you partner with? Who do you partner with other? So, I guess more of agencies that do similar work or ones that that do just different types of work that need your service like community action or please people like that. Do you partner with community action? I can't think of some of the names when that comes in my head, but who do you? Well, it's easy because my answer is we'll partner with anyone. We are agnostic. Housing impacts everything. It impacts where our jobs are and how economically vibrant the state is. It impacts our health care outcomes. It impacts the wear and tear on our roads and bridges and our school systems. There's always a link back to housing. So, we partner with our congressional delegation and federal partners like HUD and Rural Development because that's where the money's coming from, frankly. So, we're always going to want to partner with them and we have just such support from all those federal partners. We partner with other statewide agencies that either have money or set policy around housing. So, the governor has a department of housing and community development we work a lot with. There's an agency very similar to us, but they do slightly different things that has a mission of both housing and conservation, the Vermont Housing Conservation Board. We partner with them a lot. There's a state housing authority that runs the Section 8 program. We partner with them a lot because we may help fund to build the building that's affordable, but then sometimes folks still need that Section 8 voucher to make it affordable. And then there's all the municipalities that we work with. There's a lot of housing commissions. We get really involved in helping to guide what planning and zoning should be because we may say we need more housing, but if the local community hasn't set up their community to be housing ready, then all the money in the world isn't going to fix it. But then there's the community organizations like you were talking about. You could focus on lots of demographics or situations that there's whole partners we work with. So, we do a lot of work to prioritize our money. So, at the apartments we finance are targeted to people experiencing homelessness. So, we do work with all the community action agencies and the homeless shelters and service agencies and designate agencies who are serving people without homes. We also work a lot with manufactured home communities. People call them mobile home parks. And so, we... 8% of the state's housing are manufactured homes. And so, it's important that we know what's happening there. Both individual developments, what's happening and sort of broader statewide policy. So, I mean... So, let's talk... I'll just make your opinion, you know. So, I live in... I have a lot of opinions. So, we're going to be here a while. They ain't going to write. I'm with the right person, too. So, I live in Winnieski, right? And so... They're doing a lot of things right there. A lot of incredible things. I work with the mayor and Christina a lot. Also, I'm on the school board for anti-racism committee. I'm the Winnieski Democratic chairman. I've just been appointed by the governor's chairman to be the human rights commissioner. One of them. What's that? And so, I'm sure there's some other things I do, but I got to look at my own damn resume. So, anyways, but there's an issue that's been around there and a person who owned his property, 300 Main Street, has got eviction notices going out to, I think it's 24 families on... You got to go. Because he want to make it... He want to make more money. That's all basically what he's saying, because he just want to make it more luxurious and charge more money. That's what he's saying. So, I guess that means he want to make more money. Here we are with families, not individuals, families, you know what I mean? And they all target our new Americans. And so, are you guys... I know the mayor and the Winnieski Housing Authority and others are working tirelessly to try to figure out what the hell they're going to do. But for me, a lot of them is going to be those families and youth are going to be displaced. Displaced meaning they're not going to be around their friends, families. They're not going to be able to go to our schools. We don't see schools. And not going to be around, you know, do the things that they... They all, normally those... Normally new Americans who lives in those together know each other. And they depend on each other for something, you know? So, what do you think about that being evicted? 24 families because... But these are my words, because they want to make more money. But that was their words too, because they want to bring it up nice and... And make more money. So, what do you think about that? But just being evicted and know where to go, all of a sudden, boom, you got to go, you know? It is absolutely heartbreaking. It is so hard to imagine, especially in this market, that these families are going to have to try to find new places to live. And, you know, we've been financing rental buildings for 40 some odd years. And I can tell you that after 25, 30 years, it's not unusual that buildings need a big renovation. I mean, housing, especially rental housing, it gets banged up, you know, you get people moving in and out every couple of years. And so, it is very fair that we need to, I would call it, recapitalize, put more money into housing and make sure it's meeting the needs of the market, you know? We all have walked through or seen pictures of homes that are quite outdated and not meeting today's needs. So, that's fair. But there are ways to do this, to invest in housing that does not evict everyone all at once, flooding the market and raising the rents by so much and all that. So, that is one reason why it's so important that the programs, that the government subsidized affordable housing programs like VHFA administers would never allow for that. You know, we have restrictions about how housing needs to remain affordable. So, it's really exciting that we have just under 14,000 apartments statewide that are, I would say are, I would use a capital A and capital H. They're affordable housing, meaning they got some kind of government subsidy. Like I said, we all have a different definition of what's affordable, but I'm saying, you know, VHFA or the state, and somehow Feds were involved in making about 14,000 apartments affordable. And for those, they cannot do what is being done in Winooski. And so, there are so many people rallying though about this. And that just speaks so much to the heart of Winooski in that there are a lot of communities across this country where when this happened a community would say, ooh, my tax rolls are gonna go up. I'm gonna, you know, the value of this property is gonna increase, meaning I can get more in tax revenues and they'd be happy to see this kind of investment. Winooski is taking a very different approach to say, we are worried about the people of Winooski who are impacted here, these 24 families. And so, there are so many people working so hard on this issue. Housing authority and the local housing providers and I know that the refugee resettlement agencies got involved and the little bit of silver lining is that there are a lot of people who are working very hard to try to help this situation. Yeah, that's kind of weird because I think a lot of tenants have you know, they could have raised your rent or even evict you like when they feel like it. I had a building in Chicago that was finally sold and this was in Chicago and like a person and we were trying to get the person out because I would never pay rent so you just can't throw them out, you can't turn off the lights, you can't change the lights, you can't do none of those things so you just have to go to court, right? And so there you go, you gotta pay the court court. So I you go to court to try to see if we can find some get that person out of there, actually evict that person and the judge told me she said, Mr. Wilson, I'm so happy you flew from Vermont to all the way to Chicago but you can't handle this, you gotta have an attorney you can't do this yourself so there's all the time that money right there was all messed up, right? And then we still have to upkeep the building and so I had to hire an attorney and I often went back up to the next time I kind of flew up there because I threw my family and friends up there that was one of the good reasons for me to go and to meet with the attorney in the court building and so when we went to the court you know the court time was one o'clock or whatever and never happens and so I'm sitting there with the attorney in the court and waiting on the attorney to come up and for like two hours and then the judge finally got to the judge and he just said well the person is not here the tenant is not here and so let's give her another chance so meanwhile this cost me $250 an hour to pay this attorney, he's sitting in the courtroom for two hours we laugh and talking and if I was him I'd be laughing and talking too and then it happened again so all the money that I was out of to get that tenant out of there $250,000 an hour for attorney and now of course I'm looking at the bargain basement for attorney and that was like one of the cheapest rates and the pay this rate while sitting there with this guy and then flying in she kind of went from Vermont and I'm like wow with tenant's rights they really have some tenant's rights here and so here these people don't get nothing, you got to go that's it every state is different and Vermont does have fairly robust landlord tenant laws that protect tenants but situations like this are possible and like I said it is heartbreaking there's a lot of resources to explain to tenants what their rights are through CVOEO they run a statewide landlord tenant program called Vermont Tenants and they have explanations of what landlords rights are and tenants rights they've even put it in like a graphic novel format they've translated it into lots of different languages so trying to get that information out to people to know what's possible but at the end of the day this is still possible I know it's like it's incredible I didn't think they could do that but obviously they can here in Vermont so it's kind of weird how things happen like in Chicago where I was born and raised like Maya was part of the civil rights movement with the CLC operation Brad Bress operation PUSH national, you know in the almost ACP you know all these people that I worked with I worked with Jesse Jackson and his wife Jackie's come out and Mary Hall Washington because my mother was like a big shot in the movie and things she did in the world and and so I always fought for civil rights I always fought for equity and inclusion and the diversity and justice so that's like been all my life you know and when I came into Vermont when 89 was the widest state in America I think it might be second or something which is alright obviously I came in 89 so I understand I got to get some white people because I would be this long so I told my mother I was coming to Vermont and she said good because I just come up there and I was a young person and I said good good you're going to make a difference and I thought she probably meant that for civil rights because I'm African-American and that I'll make a difference because there is not many who looks like me and the person who was brought up to believe in inclusion and equity and working together everybody and and so one year I said mom mom she said I was going to make a difference I said mom I'm making a difference she said what you do boy what you do and I said Vermont is the second widest state in America and she said she said you know it was funny she said boy I told you I was going to make a difference I know single-handedly double the rate of your community or your neighborhood I know I'd be someone friend I'd be like damn look what they think it's five black people in the same room at the same time but anyway so but since Floyd and Black Lives Matter and police differences with people of color people around the world they should hire people who can work in the areas of justice equity diversity inclusion and all these in everybody every company just about have hired these people to work on these issues and so couple things so how do you how do you think that's going to make a difference because like a lot of people for instance I'm going to use myself as an example I'm part of the Vermont State Police Fair and Partial Policing and that's for everybody Fair and Partial Police and I work with the community part too and they got it all in their website and everything like that like for instance they're not Vermont State Police but they're Browns Police we were talking about data collection for people who stopped right and that time it was 0.1% of African Americans live in the state but Browns had the nerves to stop 85% of people who look like me in the state 85% man and then we're only 0.1% how's that and they got this Fair and Partial Police and they don't think it's they don't have to have nothing to do with racism they don't think they have nothing to do with we count quite frankly that have a lot to do with it right and so when you talk about Fair and Partial when you talk about equity and inclusion like no more of the back rooms let's work together make sure we bring people who look like Bruce or Bipod in the back rooms or not in the back room just get rid of the back room just bring them to what do you think about this Bruce give me an idea what you think about it and so do you think that people are just like hiring all these positions just because they say they got them or you know or things going to change it depends on the day and my mood about if I think this is a wonderful investment long overdue and really impressive because you know we followed suit we've done that in the last couple of years and in doing so the idea was we didn't just want to make commitments that said we're going to do X, Y and Z and not put our money where our mouth was it was important that I pay a good amount of money to people to say this is your job this is you know what you will be held accountable to and their job is to hold the rest of the agency accountable to these commitments and if we don't have a internal accountability like that then we're never going to meet those commitments that we put down on paper and set a press release about so I do think it's an important step I also think that the proof is in the pudding and I think that this has been over 400 years in the making and it's not going to change in two years and it seems to be moving very slowly and in the internal work I've done I keep reading don't try to move too fast that it's performative or it's not real or that you haven't brought people along and engaged with people directly served so in many ways it is this constant push pull of we don't want to do too much without making sure we have that feedback loop of people who are directly impacted by these programs and these initiatives we want to make sure we're hearing their voices directly and that they have authority and agency in their voice and that just means a much more deliberative process a slower process because we have to revolutionize what we've been doing I mean the title of my agency is Vermont Housing Finance Agency and housing and finance were two key tools in this nation to systemically keep people who look like you away from communities that looked a lot more like me and so it is hard deep work that starts with the people doing the work and changing their own hearts and minds looking at the policies the programs the practices shifting the money seeding power I mean this is a revolution and so it's you're never going to have a revolution by hiring a DEI director but you're not going to have a revolution without doing some of those things either well well first and foremost too is that you know I know how to get people to understand more people who don't look like me about persons who do look like me and how to think about it it's education and understanding it's not about you need to bring Bruce up to the front table because what you need to do is like you say hire them hire people like me and get their ideas about how you think we should move forward on these issues based on for everybody and then you'll get some good answers that the rest of the people can work on because a lot of the people who don't look like me white people get their answers from Ancestral you know don't talk to him don't hang out with him don't do nothing with him and the way they will raise it's hard to teach the old dog new tricks it's as hard as hell to do and that's for anybody where you were brought up great-great-great-grandmother I'm not blaming no great-great-great-grandfather but the things that they learned from their parents or Ancestral and the things that their beliefs are just embedded in them that's them, that's how they are and how are you going to change that how are you going to really do that it's hard it's ways you got to do things you got to do the education piece if you're going to do training around diversity, equity and inclusion you got to learn about the person that's primarily what this is about who's about me a person like me you have to do role plays you got to understand why I'm doing like this why am I wearing my hat to the side coming from south side of Chicago blah blah blah why did I do the things I do why did I do the things that I did they got to learn they got to look at me objective and non-just mental first and foremost another reason why that's kind of hard because I don't live next door to white people I think I do probably I do I live next to a white person I do that's white people there most diverse community in the state I believe anyways most lot of people don't go to the next door don't go to church with them don't hang out with them don't walk down the street with them so how are you going to get to know a person like me how are you going to get to know a person like me you'll see me on tv you'll see me in a magazine newspaper you'll hear about me but you're not going to know a monster about me probably what you think about me is something that you learn from your ancestral something that you look at the black people's neighborhood look at how they raise their kids you don't see them like some really popular cool thing you might see a lot of that in Vermont because it's a good cool thing to show things about somebody doing well in Vermont as a person of color because there are numbers so that's how it's all about the education to me I think they can save their money by hiring lets you go hire a person who have life experience and I got plenty of life experience on justice equity version and inclusion plenty that's all that's my whole life and I still do it that's all I do that's all the boards and committees and commissions I sit on right today here in Vermont that's all I do and so I'm better than nobody but I can at least give you a good story and a good program I can at least come up with ways that you can understand me and maybe compete with some of your your thinking of how you are raised if I give you a stereo a week of role plays about me and the things that I've done in my life and people like me act the way we do or things that some are a lot of other people who are who will tell you about their heritage why they were determined you just learn those things you're not really changing how you're brought up but you're amending to the following you're just kind of like oh that's why they do that he does that or they do this and so that's what we want that's what I want people to understand that's the first part why people are who they are and you know how housing can help is to create those communities because if you're not invited on Bruce's cable talk show then you may not have an opportunity to meet Bruce and talk with him but another way that I see the institutions like VHFA can help is by ensuring that we have affordable housing in every part of Vermont even down by the waterfront in Burlington and in Shelburne and in you know some of these towns and making sure that we have mixed income integrated communities like Winooski I think is a prime example where you know they really are walking the walk of welcoming new Americans but also a lot of folks and it's working the school district I've heard does a wonderful job at trying to be very welcoming and so I can't single-handedly overcome all that you were just mentioning but I can say but I can say that I think it's incumbent upon all of us who especially in leadership positions to look at what our job is and to figure out so what can we do with that if I run essentially a housing bank then what can I do? I can put my money there and that's invest in things and that's important whoever run I should know this will get in trouble whoever runs the transit authority you know Green Mountain Transit or whatever I hope they're asking that question of themselves about what they can do to create that sense of community and safety and conversation and things like that I hope that all the non-profits CVOEO and the rest are asking themselves what can we do to try to create that environment for dialogue and connection I hope that the governor's office and all the different groups you know if you're working on climate change issues or economic development if you're a small business owner what are you doing it's going to need all of us we all have to band together to set this up and be successful well just so you know I am on Green Mountain Transit just the equity diversity board of course you are that shouldn't surprise me so we need everyone our next meeting is April 7th at Nuna 130 down at their main office if you want to show up and just hear what we talk about it's a lot of us and we have great ideas about how we're going to help and that's important every I say industry but every individual needs to be asking themselves what are they doing to try to create that educational opportunity that ability to connect you know we like to in housing we like to create community spaces community gardens things like that so there's an opportunity for people to cross paths and see folks who look different than from them but also then have a chance to sit and spend some time in that community space and connect so let's talk about one more thing and then you can say anything you like or you can say anything you want anyways I really am I think you know that that's good though but so let's talk about my different because I had well first of all on this show I had Taisha Green, Yasmin and I had Erin McGuire they're all equity directors and my girl Taisha Green is on because she used the word not you know this wasn't appropriate for her you know she used the words well I'm not going to I can't quote her with the words she used because I'm not going to I can't remember but I know that they she left yesterday or something the whole staff left everybody left too so you know she was very she was dedicated she was smart and she meant she was doing the work and she was getting people out there I haven't seen so many people of color since I've been in Vermont probably I've heard that from others she was very powerful she's very powerful and people who are non people which is incredible who believed in just whatever they believed in how they can make things how they can help out for themselves it's not about how I'm going to help Bruce out it was a cross-sector I know bank presidents who were there families that were there it really was very powerful so it wasn't about it was about let's support this event the meeting of what June team meant and also what did it mean to them see that's the main thing how it meant to you how can I make myself better if I was a white person talking how could I make myself better based on what I can do and we're not saying everything is rocket science but you start off at elementary we're not going to move so fast we're going to make sure that we get it right first let's listen and get the steps right and so that's all I ask people to do is believe in what you what do you want the most from to get things better how can you help so you might think that's elementary but when you do it it's rocket science that's all they had all those people there everybody was there I've seen so many people that I knew who knew me and I was hanging out with the mayor he was there and people and performances some little gangsters out there that I knew trying to work with them good food food right so the good thing about I I'm excited when I get to see all the people I work with they're up there with their goals and so it was a beautiful day I want you to S's and when you see part of those in Brunswick too so what do you think about her I don't know if you knew what her platform was what she was leaving I just know what I've read in the papers so I haven't talked to her directly I mean I messaged her best wishes and she told me what her plans were in Minnesota but I don't know the back story on that so I'd never want to speak on her behalf or anyone else who's doing this I want to know what you thought about by the person of equity she said right here say Brunswick call me diversity I'm race she'll be like straight up with you on that she ain't planned so I want you to think what do you think about that she just couldn't get along with Mayor Monroe that she couldn't get along with him and he did some things that like I know of something she should have been involved with I know this for a fact with the police negotiation or reorganization and then she took her out the picture and put somebody else in it and I don't know the whole specifics I don't know everything about it but she thought she should have been part of the negotiation team I think she should have been with the title but he didn't allow her to do that and he took some power for her to give some other white person to do that so she thought she should have been a dead person if he used her budget to do it which is I don't think that's right but I can't wait to see you Mayor Monroe we're going to top but um so I know it's sad I mean obviously no one wanted this outcome I think I can guess that by what I've read in the papers I don't this is it's hard work it's complicated I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes none of these people have me on speed dial so um I just don't know what's happening but it really does hurt the work that's going on when things like this have to happen because um there was such momentum that was happening and it did seem so exciting and so it's important that that come back and that everyone learns from whatever happened grows reflects I mean I'm a big reflective practitioner I always I'll be driving home from this and I'll be thinking about what did we talk about how did I answer what and not in a Neville gazing kind of way but more in a how can I grow from this how can I learn what and and I just think that with this racial work that's what needs to happen after all these interactions each time you know we have a conversation and you're feeling as a white person maybe I'm feeling a little uncomfortable I'm uncertain about what language I should use or was this okay to say or do or you know am I really um do I have a bias in what my gut reaction was to something that happened those are the things we all have to reflect on and learn from and grow from and then talk about and you know study and things like that so it's a journey we're all on but this it is a bumpy one it's like right now yes you know I'm not mad at nobody because um I'm trying to say as you know we we woke up this morning you know so then we still have time to get it together you know I'll get it right you know it's all we can do right um and that's also too I want to thank you very much for coming to our fundraiser at the hotel of Vermont and it was so good to see you and travel great event my husband I had a great time it was wonderful music and art and I didn't win anything but that's okay um you know it was it was a lot of fun yes so you know um Jack Hanson jazz that's what we had there Jack Hanson jazz he's a city counselor yes yeah it's a small town we have him play for all life you know he'd be gentlemen to him he'd be having a great time um and we we appreciate it we got a lot of the business coming up I was talking about April 22nd with the um CVO the art um Fair Housing Arts show at um Contour Auditorium so I will invite you to those things to come and we need to tell your team to show up and it's a free event it's all free everything let me free maybe we'll talk I think um Jess is going to talk to you about having some resources there so we can we want the community not just uh come and enjoy this art blah blah blah but here's some resources you should know about as well so yeah Fair Housing is so important I love how Jess Hyman at CVOO has always promote so strongly that April is Fair Housing Month because Fair Housing is one of these issues that does affect all of us we all whether you're applying for a loan or you're trying to rent an apartment or something in between uh we don't know enough I don't think people don't know enough about what protections are in place you know they say oh they wouldn't take me because of my section eight voucher it's like that's not legal you know they they told me that you know families don't do well here that's not legal to say you know and um so it's it's important that we all learn more about Fair Housing I know that they're always teaching me new things well you know when you're home driving home you know you be thinking what should I say what did I what did I learn just know that you you gave all the answers hahaha I don't gave no answers you gave all the answers though sometimes I had to look at the shows myself and say what the hell did I say you know sometimes they're like God I said this event is like five o'clock and I said and um I said I don't know if it's five or six I said but whatever it is if it's five or six I'm gonna change it to the time I said that's a good thing about you know about being in charge of something you can you can make it work you know but what else you got to add before we close out right now uh the last thing I'll say is that VHFA is running um a big mortgage assistance program called the homeowner assistance fund and so there's fifty million dollars available for people who have overdue mortgages utilities property taxes or homeowner association fees so if you own your home in Vermont and you're behind on any of those bills you can go to VHFA.org and um apply for that money similarly another organization has a rental assistance program that's doing the same thing if you're a renter so these kind of programs that came about since COVID and are federally funded and supported by our congressional delegation are so important because there's money available to help people so I just always want to make sure that folks know that that assistance is helpful. Well that's great, that's a lot we should be on that like nothing yeah yeah this has been fun this is great though thank you so much for having me on Bruce no doubt about it you know we finally got it right well I got it right you got one thing right you got everything else right so I want to thank everybody for tuning in to Straight Talk Vermont Show and we'll see you next time