 And we are live on the 91st edition of the red man group. I'm your host and moderator Donovan sharp We are brought to you by I'm sorry. We are brought to you by I had my notes up here But for whatever reason they are gone. Well, we are brought to you by the 21 convention What goes down on April 30th through May the 3rd? We're also brought to you by the 22 convention which goes down May the 1st through May the 3rd So the 21 or 22 convention are going to be going down Simultaneously, they're gonna be running concurrent with one another and of course We are also brought to you by the fraternity of excellence that is run by Hunter Drew One of the 21 convention. I think he's going to be the vice patriarch this time with Connor Guzzi being the Head patriarch gentlemen. How are you doing this morning? Good good. Yeah Good stuff and we're gonna hold we're gonna go ahead and open up the phone lines if you guys want to call into the show The number is 914 205 356 again That's 914 205 356 the number is rolling at the bottom of the screen if you're calling from outside of the US It is 0 0 1 9 1 4 2 0 5 5 3 5 6 before you started Let us introduce today's panel first up is Steve the Dean Williams who runs the website the man mindset calm Be sure to check out his weekly show right here on the red man group channel called the red man mindset That goes down every Monday evening at 7 Eastern Also on the panel today is none other than the CEO and founder of 21 studios and the 21 convention Anthony dream Johnson His websites are 21 studios comm of the 21 convention dot org where Your 21 convention ticket guys be sure to subscribe to this channel Which is the red man group as well as this channel 21 studios for exclusive content video and to sign up for 21 University Next up on the panel is Ken Curry. He runs the website. What is it solid man? Yes, sir Those who are unfamiliar with you because I don't I think this is probably maybe your first or second appearance on On the show today to talk to the audience about who you are what you do. Sure. Sure. I'm a I'm in Colorado I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and so that's my regular practice is Working with men I do men's groups and and then working with couples. So that's a big thing that I do Also, I'm starting to expand a little bit on my website. I'm also This next year. I'm learning how to I'm learning all this stuff. You guys are all on this I'm just trying to learn how to how to do some online stuff and I'm gonna try to build a community of men like Hunter has and Be able to have something Because we need as much support as we can and so that's a big part of what I'm doing And it's an honor to be part of this group and to be able to speak at the Patriarch convention coming up In the 22 convention looking at that as a really big honor I got some good stuff brewing about what I'm what I'm gonna be speaking on. So Yeah, that's good. All right, good stuff Steve. What have you been up to? So you're out in Las Vegas today, man What are you doing out in the 702? Man, I was out here just laid back chilling man. That's all it's just laid back in the cut I got to get back home tomorrow morning. So I catch the football game. But yeah, we see it Relaxing man. Good good stuff. All right Well, we're gonna talk about the the myth of unconditional love at least as far as I'm concerned I'll start it off with this and we can all sort of add Our two cents one way the other here So we've all heard the term unconditional love right like we hear and we see people who want Unconditional love from their significant others. We see it on movies and television We see it and hear it from our families our friends co-workers anybody we interact with on a daily basis Well, obviously most of us here at least as far as I'm concerned we know that That we know that that unconditional love is a misnomer because we know that love As both an action and a feeling is extremely conditional in and of itself now on the other side of the coin Some of us may not fully admit to ourselves that unconditional love is a myth Some of us may know it's a myth, but don't exactly know why or how to put into words or thoughts Or really put our finger on it But most men do not understand that unconditional love isn't reserved for us Unconditional love is not for men unconditional love is for the weak The defenseless females children and animals unconditional love exists for them Because they need it right now a lot of people might be thinking well donovan There's no way that's true There are men the world over who get unconditional love from women all the time Their wives and girlfriends and all that you'd be dead wrong and I'm telling you this right now And I'm going to get your opinion here. I'm going to get your opinion here on this kin As far as I'm concerned females are utterly incapable of loving anyone or anything Unconditionally except for their children and their pets. That's it as a man If you think for one second that a female a single female on this planet loves any man Unconditionally you're an idiot because that's just not possible. It's just not in them. They cannot do it. What are your thoughts? Well, that's a pretty good Set up as far as the whole thing of I think You know, you're saying that they can only love children which I think or unconditional love children or pets Man, I don't have quite as bleak of a view of women as you might the whole thing I I think it's hard for any human to actually be able to love unconditionally So the whole idea of the myth of that I think even for men to love women or even men to love their children I think uh, it's something to attain. I mean, we're in the world even talking about unconditional man We're talking about this is this is a god thing. This is deity thing You know that can humans actually do this? That's a pretty profound question. You're asking I don't think it's to be honest with you. I don't think it's I don't think it's profound at all And I don't think it requires I don't I don't think that understanding that love is conditional I don't think that requires a a completely bleak Outlook on love and relationships and I guess when I say love is conditional. There's no such thing as unconditional love I'm specifically talking about Romantic love between a man and oh dude, dude. I'm totally with you. I'm not saying Maybe I said that wrong or something but the the idea that I'm I'm with you that love is conditional. It's something that we would seek and attain to as a human It's a high calling. It's a pretty brilliant thing to pursue absolutely But can we do it? It's uh, man, I don't think it's possible Yeah, I don't think it is. Listen. That's a good question. I don't think we can't either steve. What are your thoughts? Me I don't I don't believe in that love stuff. You know when it comes to unconditional love I'm all about unconditional respect There it is. Yeah, I don't I'd rather have her unconditional respect again. I don't want her love. That's a I mean, listen, we can fall in love later on but she's got to be able to climb the mountain and grab the ring like Lord of the ring I don't I don't I don't believe in that fairy tale stuff that they spew on tv and all that stuff And again, that's for me. I say I think that's for women It's um for women to buy products and buy things and make them feel good, you know, because women are always Pushing their love or unconditional love on feelings and emotions And as men, I don't I don't think we unconditional love anything I can see ourselves But no, I'm about unconditional respect brother. Good answer. Uh, anthony. Is there any such a thing as unconditional love? I mean, does there's a yeah, so you're asking it to even exist Uh, I suppose it could exist, but I don't think you'd want to practice it So I might have a different take on this than the rest of the panel Let's hear it So first of all one of the best books or the book that first introduced me to this was the psychology of romantic love by dr. Nathaniel brandon He died a couple years ago, but I got to meet him as well and spent about four or five hours at his house back in 2012 After the convention we held in australia And this is the first book where I saw it. Uh, hang on. Let me meet steve real quick so I can see back So that was the first book I'd ever seen that was very critical the idea of unconditional love And kind of like you're saying donovan, although not quite as bleak as ken put it It's very critical the concept in that it's not healthy And I stand by that and I so when I found the red pill community in 2016 The the criticism I saw there of unconditional love was very reminiscent of what I saw In the philosophy of objectivism, uh, which he was a big part of back in the 1960s and stuff like that This is actually iron rand's like alpha This guy was banging iron ran back in the day and all kinds of shenanigans way back in the you know earlier america Anyway, yeah, I don't think like you you talked about in your speech dawn of into the 21 convention And we put out a preview clip of it and people like were really triggered by that and polarized panel Yeah, I thought it was good too. That's why oh my god I was like, yeah But no, it's not I don't it's especially in a romantic context. I don't see it as healthy Like why would you even you know, we talk about women loving men unconditionally Why would you even want to love a woman unconditionally? I don't know why you'd want to do that The conditions that she sets for her life the standard she holds for herself for her behavior for her appearance for her beauty For her character qualities. These are things she has to work on maintain even build a little bit Although mostly as a woman maintain it as we discussed in the past episodes as differences between men and women So and then from the you know woman to man like why would you want her to love you unconditionally? Would you not want her to love you for what and who you are? Uh, you know being fit being in shape right being masculine becoming more masculine over time succeeding in life Uh surviving through trauma and all kinds of things are going to go obstacles in life as a man These are reasons why I mean we say that women love winners. Well, okay, great. No shit when you win That means you've succeeded in life. That means you've navigated realities some ways successfully And women are drawn to that they're drawn to power. They're drawn to masculinity They're drawn to all these different characteristics that we need to discuss So yeah, I'm not I'm not a fan of my conditional love and I don't think it's a good thing between a man and a woman I don't think it's healthy and a lot of blue pill dudes Especially will be super into this because it's like you talked about Donovan too like the male burden of performance Yeah, no guys today and beta guys. I've seen guys, but they're not interested in it Dude, I've seen guys married for like, you know, maybe two years into their marriage talk about this stuff You know old friends that I used to work with when I was in college and shit And you hear it and it's just like gross, man It's like, yeah, if a good fact you'll still love me and blah blah blah and it's like, dude, that's why She's gonna love you a lot less like if you're getting fat and lazy like hello Why why is this okay for you to like to even think that but that's what guys are fed and it's fucking gross Hey, Donovan, can we take a second with uh, even defining the terms? Yeah, what is what is this that we're talking about? Yeah, so what we're talking about is we're we're asking the question and sort of making a statement Is there such a thing as unconditional love romantically between a man and a woman? I think that's what we're talking about. Let's actually talk about some of the conditions to love now I think that there are conditions to love Um, I think we all have different definitions and i'm gonna i'm i'll go ahead and give you mine first for me For a female of potential quality and by female of potential quality I'm talking about a female who's physically attractive. She doesn't have to be hot She doesn't have to be a smoke show. She doesn't have to be this She didn't have to have this ravenously beautiful face She simply needs to be fit and have a decent looking face But a female of potential quality is a female who is physically attractive a female who understands and abides Abides by and truly believes in traditional Sex and gender roles and conducts herself at such as such in order for those females The females of potential quality to truly fall in love with you You as a man you have to have a few basic things in place to lay the groundwork and guys listen I've talked about these things ad nauseam got to be in above average shape got to be financially responsible Got to know Have some pushback on this it sounds to me that you're talking about attraction and arousal and things like that Which I would see is distinct from love romantic love or otherwise So I'm talking about the same things there. I think well that that's actually that's actually a really good That's a good comment. Here's the thing And I don't know. I guess this is I guess this I'll put this question to the panel As far as I'm concerned a woman has to be sexually attracted to a man in order to Love him in the physical romantic set Like a woman like if a woman doesn't want to have sex with listen I'm sure that there are so many women out here that they have guys in the friend zone They love them unconditionally doesn't matter how fatty gets of course. They love my condition. They're not gonna fuck the guy They're never gonna depend on him, right? But for a woman to love a man Romantically and fall in love romantic love with that man It is my assertion that a man has to have a few things in place physical fitness financial shrewdness. What say you guys? What do you guys think? Oh, let me get steven. Sorry. Uh, yeah, steve steve. Yeah, I know, you know me dumb I don't I don't you know from you know my side of the street because I keep telling you guys Yeah, I if you're building your body for a woman If you're doing anything for a woman, you're doing the wrong way If you want to work out because you want to work out, that's fine But for a lot of guys they keep forgetting this Working out having a nice car and all these other stuff is not going to cover up the fact that you're not assertive That you you're not clear and concise that you're not That you don't have any laws rules and codes that you can't stand up for your principles and narratives and all those other things So and one thing yes, if you want to get your body right for you, that's fine But uh, she's not going to fall in love with the outer you it's what you what you bring to the table that she's going to invest in So again from my side of the street, I don't ever want to tell guys not to work out We'll do what you want to do for yourself. That's what I tell anybody But you've got to understand this this she's she's making an investment. It's either you versus brand x She wants to make sure that the guy that she Quote on quote falls in love with are our guys that can can make her feel remember their emotions So we're looking at romantic smooth seductive sweet guys Um sexual and things like that, you know, it's the little things for women sometimes So not necessarily the body and all the other stuff which you can't have But sometimes people cover up the fact they hide behind the body and all that other stuff Then they wonder why someone's knocking on Anthony's door at like 2 30 in the morning and not being with them Listen, I I totally agree and I guess like can I guess I should have explained myself a little bit further Guys like us men who follow the type of work that we do I guess I guess I should have explained that because and steve you're so much better at this than I am because You don't assume that anybody knows anything like you don't take you don't take anybody's ignorance or lack They're up or granted you say look here's what's necessary I guess I'm I guess and I I try not to revert back to sort of the red pill one-on-one thing But assuming of course that a man is assertive. He has his life together He has everything in place and I'll I'll even tell you this I'll even I'll even piggyback off of what steve said the more the more things that you have the more Intangibles you have the better a shot Not really the better shot the more likely it is for a woman to fall in love with you But I will tell you this All things being equal let's say that two men have the exact same intangibles They have the same assertiveness. They know how to handle women. They don't feed into their shenanigans They they know how to be romantic etc etc etc Let's not pretend that the guy who's in a little better shape who has a little better financial outlook Is not going to have more opportunities, but just like steve said on the other side of the street Opportunities doesn't equal success Hold on you can put yourself you can put yourself in position to be Uh sexually attractive, but if you're not ready for that success then you're not going to be any more or less successful than the fact Guy living at his mom's house Okay, this is the only thing I want to say real quick um What what guys have to understand when it comes to women because a lot of guys don't understand women Women are different some women think skinny guys are too fragile some women like guys with guts Some women like tall it then if it comes to two different guys It then will fall on the preference of the woman and what she sees as what she wants because Some women don't like muscles some women do you know all women are not the same? So I would just say in that case It's the woman making that final choice when you have two guys the exact same sir I Go ahead I want to hop in here and go back to ken's question a little bit about defining terms So philosophically I view and this is what I got from uh, Nathaniel brandon years ago And I still agree with it to this day and the most basic sense to love is to value And that is that could be between family that could be between lovers that can see you know all kinds of things even between friends If you love someone or you love something that means you value it in some way in a very generalized sense Uh, what we're talking about though with like, you know romance intimacy, you know long-term relationships That's like a deeper level of it or you're triggering like Maybe even in the brain you're hitting more parts of the brain, uh, you know with women, you know alpha That's what we're discussing though, right? I mean we're talking about romantic love between men and women Yeah, sure, but I think it has other like you even mentioned that the woman can love children and you know pets supposedly unconditionally Um, and I think in most cases, well, I don't even know if they should they're like, you know Should ate off Hitler's parents still love him Of course not what they do because they're his parents and again I don't know if they do and I don't I don't I don't know if that's an extreme example But you see all the time son or daughter commits crime mom and dad No, like dude the anthony family casey anthony, right? Yeah, he's the anthony's mother and father They knew she they knew that she allegedly killed her daughter kailey But they were ride or die for her should they have been of course not but they're her parents and and i'm not a parent So I I could I couldn't possibly understand The the love that a parent could have for their child But I think I think in that particular now it also depends on the people There's some people who are just uh, they're just they're just not really built the same way as most people They love their children, but they wouldn't they wouldn't love them unconditionally So I think that's very important for us to differentiate the difference between and the love I talk about is the only kind of love I'm experienced with that's romantic love between a man and a woman I can't speak to Unconditional love for your kids because I don't have any but does that back again sibling you have siblings and parents I mean, do you love them? Yeah? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true I'm not I'm not saying obviously they're not the exact same thing not even close sure But I understand what you mean the foundation is what I'm saying is uh, there's a there's a foundational similarity But romantic love is different in a big way because you have to build it from scratch Right, you're obviously you better not be blood related to that person. So Yeah, I know you know one of our old speakers, uh, dr. Yaron brook He was actually the president of the iran institute. He's still the chairman to this day He spoke at our convention a couple times back in 2012. He was 2012 And he talked about how children should not love their parents unconditionally Um Parents should love their condition their children for the most part of conditionally, but from the other way around now What do you think again? Yeah, it's controversial on the channel Say it again, Anthony He said that he says that that this dude says children should not love their parents unconditionally But parents should love their kids unconditionally. Oh, what do you think? Yeah, that's that I'm thinking because donovan you were kind of pushing on this. What if my kids did something really horrible Yeah, you know the whole thing is it possible? Is it even possible or should it happen? I think the parents it does come down to that whole idea of value And is this person incredibly valuable because what you're actually doing is your your Your children are your legacy and they're the ones that are going to carry on your name You're they're going to carry on your values into the world long after you're gone And it's like is this something that's valuable to me And I want my kids to to do that. And so I definitely love my children. Um, the whole idea of how kid I think we had something on twitter gosh a month ago or so the whole thing about how too many families are kid-centric And um, there's too much Where the uh, the family orbits around the kids too much. Anyway, wow Yeah, tanner goes he was talking about that in his patriarch speech It just came out how the kids become gods and they like Steve listen, steve has how many children do you have steve? Last I checked Yeah, last I checked. Uh, yeah, I think it was like six Right, but if you follow steve on social media steve loves his kids He loves his children you can see that but steve's life doesn't revolve around his children certainly factor into his life But his life doesn't revolve around his children, right? Like how do you strike that balance steve because we do see helicopter parents and this whole god complex You see these these single moms. Oh my son is my king. He's my prince. He's my everything that to me is unhealthy How do you keep away from that? Well, I do it like nature. I just like I train them to be super independent And I train them to be super responsible and super accountable and things like that. I'm there to support them Uh, we you know, again This is part of the stuff that you got to talk about before you even have kids with a woman or a wife But you know, these are things like college and things, uh, you know, they're gonna everybody's gonna get a car Everybody's gonna get their college paid for but they're gonna have to maintain their grades As soon as they stop maintaining their grades and they want to do whatever they want to do you go right ahead Then you're good, but uh, it's just For for me. It's uploading Respect and honor and integrity and all those things and those kids early on Uh, they you know, there's no timeouts or anything like that. I'm a little bit I'm in from the old school, but um, but you know, they're honorable students and you know, they're they're doing their thing but Yeah, it's just it's just it's easy. It's an easy balance again I don't want to say when you're a man, but when you know yourself well enough You because as a man, you've got to handle different pots I mean all of y'all are doing that right now Even if even if you have kids you don't have kids you're maintaining your lives because you have different lives that you Have to have to look over as a king. So it's just the same thing. It's just it's just that they just your kids That's all them. Well, let's seamlessly segue into what steve and anthony we're talking about a little bit earlier And this is a woman loving you for who you are versus what you are now I've always been of the mind until about 15 minutes ago And maybe I need to add a little bit more dimension To my own opinion here, but a woman doesn't love you for who you are. She loves you for what you are But if who you are is assertive dominant, uh, well respected steadfast in your belief That's really more of a who rather than a what So I guess what I mean to say is so long as you remain steadfastly these things that That you are a woman is always going to love you but the minute you cease To be those things the minute you cease to be who you are demanding commanding Dominant assertive steadfast etc etc a woman will absolutely fall out of love with you The minute you stop becoming who and what you are that drew her to you in the first place A woman will dude she'll fall out of love with you as quickly as the day as quickly as the day is long Steve what are your thoughts on that? Well, real quick. It's just like a football team falling out of love with the coach You know the coach or you know, sometimes the coach is inspiring the team Sure, and there's always the honeymoon period when they first hire him, right? Yeah. Yeah, they're all excited But when you lose the team when the team doesn't believe in the coach That's when you lose the team, right? Because they don't believe in that the leader of the team and that's why Where the 21 is important for all these young men because we're pushing these young men to be great leaders And a woman does not I keep telling you a woman does not want to be with a man Whose pussy is tighter than hers? That's the truth Yeah, I want to yeah, sorry. Go ahead. Anthony. Go ahead. Good. I wanted to comment here that I mentioned earlier in the show My opinion and this is what nathana brandon advocates to and many objectivists in their philosophy of objectivism That unconditional love in a romantic sense, especially is unhealthy and maybe in a familial sense It's not like parent to children. I think there's a lot of debate there Of course, but between an adult man and a woman. I don't see how it's healthy I think it's dysfunctional and in particular. I think what it means is that you want something for nothing Yes, you want to get something for free no matter what you do No matter if like in case that you mentioned casey anthony right here in ralanda, right? All that shit went down years ago I mean think about her parents if casey anthony killed their grandchild should they continue to love their child I mean how fucking far down the road of boundary violations. Do you have to go? That's what is that infanticide like killing your own fantasy idea Yeah, that wasn't just her child that she killed that was their grandchild Yes, I mean that she did it right, you know knock on wood dude. Listen. Listen. OJ. Did it casey anthony did it end of discussion I'm not I'm not debating and that and that's just like and that's just a not a micro case But that's like a special a very specific case of a boundary violation Of committing a serious crime and then obviously you have even more extreme examples like genocidal maniacs that commit You know kill thousands and millions of people. Yeah, those are slightly much really disturbed Yeah, dude, they had they had parents though. I mean, you know Adolf Hitler was a fucking what a painter when he was like, you know Something that yeah painter. Yeah, right, right Like I'm sure at some point in his life his parents loved him and at some point I don't know what the fucking history of it is but at some point they probably should have stopped And uh, well, here's the thing but in a romantic sense Hang on my final point though the most important point is that you know women and men both that want this I think it's a form of like intellectual or even like soul laziness Like why do you want someone to love you for for doing no matter what you do? Even if you become a huge piece of shit Whether that's um, you know a murderer a murdering your own child or you know, you're just become a lazy ass So that you can become a huge piece of shit and a lazy ass and continue to get see and I said this at my 21 convention speech you want to put it in cruise control You want to get fit and get all this money and then as soon as you have her unconditional love All right, that's it. I'm done and that's what we call the continuing burden of masculine performance But anthony mentioned something very important that I want to get ken's take on The difference between Feeling love and showing love to me are two different things. Let's just take the extreme example Um, the anthony family and the hitler family Okay, i'm sure mr. And mrs. Hitler probably still loved atol because that is their offspring That's their child doesn't necessarily mean that they have to show it. Hey listen atol. We love you But i'm not gonna support you you're trying to take over germany or over there killing the jews Listen, we still love you and all but like we can't swim with you Is there a difference ken between feeling love and showing love as an action? Okay, so this is uh, what you guys are talking about is a really powerful significant part of anything that happens in marriage therapy It's like any couple that comes into my office is dealing with exactly what we're talking about and it's the transition from The whole feeling love to the moving toward committed love And if committed love is similar to what we're talking about the unconditional love Maybe we're we're talking about that but the whole idea of feeling love. That's what you're talking Right the what what's gonna happen in this moment? Um every every relationship starts with uh, this whole thing of external validation I feel I feel good with you when i'm with you and you feel good about yourself when you're with me And it goes back to the whole idea of frame like steve's talking about Because what's happening what happens is the honeymoon gets is over all of a sudden shit hits the fan And and then and then all of a sudden I don't have that external validation anymore And the statement that I hear every single time is I love you but i'm not in love with you Oh, that's a cop out. All right. Oh, but that's the line. That's the line because but it is here It's the transition. It's a wait a second anthony. It's a transition from romantic love to committed love Boom. Oh wow, that's and it's it's at that it's at that. There's a point It's the the honeymoon's over shit hits the fan But now a couple has the The choice to be able to choose if we're going to continue this relationship It's got to be built on a totally different platform Other than external validation and that's where what steve's talking about with having frame Being the man that you know you are and and this is where and it doesn't really have to do with now You choose to be with me. I love what steve's talking about because it's at that moment a man chooses I'm going to be the man. I need to be I'm going to be healthy. I'm going to be strong I'm going to be physically healthy and I'm going to move forward because I'm not doing it to save my marriage I'm doing it because I'm saving me And in that then that's the platform in which to have a good relationship Because the equation is is I don't need you I want you I want you I don't need you and that's the whole thing is the the whole thing of the The romantic relationship is all about I need you I have to have you in my life And and and it has to shift. Well, it's not have to it's going to every single relationship hits the honeymoon over Is over period and then has a choice. Do we move forward and build something strong on a strong foundation? Or do we just blow it up and we're done? Anthony you had you had some thoughts on what ken was saying. Yeah, just um just from perusing, you know Thousands of posts on reddit and this is not a secret in the manisphere, but separate from what ken has experienced without I don't have the full detail on obviously But I would view, you know, I love you, but I'm not in love with you. That's like That would be like the marriage Now I'm not I don't so I'm not I don't know if I grasp the full context of what ken's saying with this But that to me is like marriage level friend zone and we see that in dead bedroom communities on reddit and other places too I mean, that's like that's like that's something specific the women say too. I don't Yeah, it is really very specific to women. Anthony. Yeah, and that that to me too. I mean my theory on that would be that's like the The alpha view her alpha view of you has been broken down or obliterated And there's nothing left but the beta element of you which she needs too She needs to be provided for and protected and things like that But she's lost the she's lost completely the feels for you the tingles the danger of the romance It's the I've lost the loving feeling Yeah, the mystery of it. Yeah, there you go all of it. Yeah Let me go back to what anthony said a little bit earlier and this goes back to what I talked about briefly my 21 convention speech Unconditional love is within the constructive of a romantic Sexual love between a man and a woman presumably unrelated It's not good for either sex and I'll tell you why here females shouldn't want to stay with men who let themselves go Females shouldn't want to be with a man who who doesn't hold her accountable a man who isn't driven a man who isn't goal-oriented We damn sure don't want to be with women who have let themselves go, right? Like we don't want our women getting fat complacent So what makes us think that she wouldn't go anywhere if we did the same thing, right? I mean, how would lose how would our race have lived this long and evolved this long if women wanted If women were you go maybe okay with like fat and lazy or if we were okay with it too Women it's like that's bad for your children. It's if your woman gets fat and lazy your children are gonna be fat epigenetically There's like science behind this conditional love is it is evolutionarily essential. I guess that's a long way of putting it But that But here's the thing here's the thing just talking strictly from the from from an emotional perspective, right? If you lose your physical edge, you don't deserve her Okay, she should leave you if you lose the ability to physically protect her She shouldn't stay with you. She should get with someone who can What's dense? What sense does it make to stay with a man who can't protect his own family and who isn't strong mentally who doesn't keep her And her children in check if you develop a gambling problem or a drug addiction You don't deserve her love guys You don't deserve her to stick around because if your money is being spent on gambling or drugs It won't be long before your finances are not conducive to financial stability Which is necessary to take care of your family. Of course. She has the right to jump to a ship To another ship the one she's on is thinking is is sinking Like I said earlier a female's love for a man has to be Has to be conditional it is a survival mechanism for females It has to be conditional because if it's not everybody loses a female Listen a female loses protection and provision and a man ends up losing the female now steve You are clearly the patriarch of your family In terms of the masculine burden of performance Do you feel the pressure and do you embrace the fact that hey, you know what? I like that my family relies on me. I like that if Uh, I like that my children and my wife. I like that they lean on me I like that they rely on me for their very survival and well-being Oh, yeah, but Well real quick on what y'all saying y'all gotta understand guys. You're all gonna get old one day, you know Everybody gets old Just slowing down, you know things gonna start creaking on you and things like that She right like so is she and and again, this is the value. This is the value and value out thing. Yeah, right, right, right But uh, I think to um to you new question is asking is uh, how do how do I handle? Is there pressure of them leaning on me and everything? Um, there's no pressure because this is what I accepted as a man I I again at the end of the day It's a I always push my name my legacy in my bloodline. So this is what I wanted to do That's why I got out the game of being a whore and a jiggaloo Because I wanted to settle down and I wanted a carbon copy me because i'm an arrogant asshole that's Really conceded cocky in there. I'm just all those things. So I wanted to duplicate me and any As many as I can I posted about eddie murphy having 10 kids. I'm jealous. I wish I had I wish I could have 10 or 15 kids because Does he really have 10 kids? Damn. Yeah, I think yeah. Yeah, he's got 10 kids. Yeah, look at him on your Yeah, I'm jealous of eddie murphy, man But um, but because I know what I am and I know what I bring to the table and I know what I expect I mean, but the but before you have these things You've got to know you you just can't jump into relationships with women without knowing you first and that's why We push this so much on people that you the world is going to lean on you Everybody's going to look to you for answers and if you don't have the answers That's when you start to lose your respect Okay, so That that that's a lot to unpack. Can you have children? Right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I got I got three adult children Okay. Oh wow, okay So expound on what steve said a little bit earlier because what he just said makes perfect sense This is what he accepted. What say you? Yeah, so I think the gosh I'm not sure my brain was going somewhere else than I wasn't following steve exactly Because I still I was still thinking about this conversation We were having the where it was going a little bit ago with the whole idea of of the transition because You know both donovan you and anthony are it's funny how you and anthony are one place steve and i are in one place And and the whole idea steve stinking doing his 20th anniversary this weekend I'm the only guy here that's single man. All you guys are taken man. I'm only bachelor on the panel But the whole idea of uh, man the longevity of a relationship It requires a level of commitment and and so what steve was talking about, you know, you're going to get old your bones are going to creak your Your uh, you know, you're going to get wrinkles your hair is going to turn gray There's going to be a pretty significant level of Of uh your things falling apart and limitations and all that and you're not going she's not going to be as beautiful As she was you're not going to be as strong physically as you were And and so the the I I do agree We want to do everything we can to maintain frame and build our internal frame as much as we possibly can But when it really comes down to it the thing that holds the relationship together is the commitment I'm committed to my kids. I'm committed to my family. I'm kid committed to my wife But primarily the the level the the priority goes i'm committed to myself Making sure i'm the best damn strong man. I can be i'm then committed to my relationship as a couple and next I'm committed to my kids It's got to be in that order and if you miss that and so many guys do where they put the wife on the pedestal Put like I said putting the kids on the pedestal. We can't do it It's got to be the order where I have to be committed to myself I think that's really interesting too Ken because most people don't would not agree with you And that they would prioritize their relationship or their kids over their relationship with their wife Oh, man, that is like that is like one of the biggest pitfalls ever I agree. It's so big. It's such a pitfall because what the kids need is mom and dad who are tight Mom and dad who love mom and dad who are having sex mom and dad who are just really loving each other Well, I see it as they need an example of what a healthy functional relationship is between a man and a woman And that's what people people just are completely oblivious to that and I think they use the kids as an excuse Yeah, yeah, do you think let me ask you this Ken because this this is a very good This is a good Sort of segue here. I want to get your I want to get your thoughts and Steve thoughts because you guys have kids Do you think That prioritizing your relationship and I guess I'm asking this in the same way But do you think that people in general prioritizing their relationships with their kids? Rather than their significant other the the person they have the kids with do you think that's damaging to the family? And why is that? So it's damaging to the family because the well because what the kids need is security And and and they need to like you said the modeling of a really healthy good relationship And when when parents have a united front with discipline when when there is obvious PDA public display of affection you want your kids to say you All the time you just want that to happen all the freaking time The the kids the level of security that a that a baby that a that a child's gonna have In their life when they know that mom and dad are are loving each other is just Extraordinary and this is what so many kids are missing you we were talking about dead bed and we're talking about Trust me. There's tons of guys that don't have any affection They don't have any love and that's the thing that completely destroys A family and and it gives the kids where they they don't know what to expect And so here's jimmy in third grade his best friend his parents having a divorce He's sitting there as my parents gonna do that No, when he when he gets home and mom and dad are kissing and loving and and playing a little bit of you know slap ass and stuff like It's like the kids not gonna feel it. They're gonna my mom and dad totally different exactly Mom and dad are wrestling again. What the hell? You know Well, hey, we got we got Phil guys. I want to bring them in Um, here we go. Phil welcome to the show. Hey, what's going on, man? Phil good morning gentlemen and wait before we let phil go. No that is not richard cooper on the screen We had so many people saying dude. Is that rich cooper? No, it's listen. No, we understand that you guys look almost identical But no, this is phil phil. You're in a long-term relationship Um, and I think that's 80 of us on this panel are in some sort of long-term relationships Do you and you have children so 60 of us have children so we all fall into different demographics as far as relationships are concerned What are your thoughts just in general on unconditional love in a Romantic love between a man and a woman presumably non related. I had to put it all had to put all those disclaimers there All right, phil do your best. All right, so let's see here. Let's see what I can do for you so That kind of situation for me is The unconditional love part. Okay. Do I love my wife? Absolutely. I love her. Are we a team? Absolutely Does that you know mean that um tomorrow some something better might not come along? Possibly, you know, but that goes both directions You see so you can go we both need to work at this situation in my opinion And she shares that same opinion, you know, I have a certain set of standards and guidelines that I choose to run my home by and she chooses to Agree to that set of standards and somewhat guidelines, I guess she would call them and Live up to them And when she doesn't live up to them, I call her out on it and this is so likewise, you know You know a lot of guys they say oh well, you know You're tricking because you're married or whatever and I have to say this I want to be honest with you You know marriage to me is transactional. It's very transactional. Absolutely. You know, you got to be able to To go out and swing the sword and the woman is her job for me in my home is to nurture and to Embodied the home as far as Taking care of the family taking care of the house Any kind of delegated tasks that I give her she takes care of as well and the rest of it The rest of it it falls on my shoulders and unless I delegate other things, but I think Unconditional love You know, I've been married once before So to say that that's such a thing I would have to disagree for the simple fact is if I've been married before and I professed in front of My family and peers and in the church that oh, I love you till death do us part Well, that's not the case. So obviously I've I've proven that theory wrong. I think that People that believe and oh, there's just true love and true destiny and you know, you're the one for me You know, I'm the one for you right now And that's a that's a reality basis the way I feel of it now if I'm not handling my business Then someone else might be that one hand for you. Yeah Yeah, exactly, you know, and that's and that's how I feel about that, you know And obviously I've missed a little bit of the show. So I'm kind of You're you're you're on it. You're on it, man. You're right where we are I'll put it to you then I want to I want to add real quick. This is I think this will really uh This would be kind of mind-blowing for some guys or they'll It'll it'll affect real lives. I think and philip and philip just made me think of this So when I got married to Whoa, was an audio come from yeah when I had the marriage in vegas actually where uh, you know steves at I didn't get legally married, but we had a private marriage. We had a wedding both families came out We traded rings vows all these things Which even took my last name One of the things I put in my vows that really upset both families and of course, I didn't give a flying fuck I went ahead with it. I'm glad I did and I'd do it again someday and I will I said until life or until life or death do us part And this this really raised some eyebrows And it was very yeah, this is I have this on video if you guys want to see it I like to see it. I gotta see it. Yeah, it's it's epic, dude So I don't know if I could pull I could maybe pull it up right now. Fuck I don't know where the fuck it's at the video, but Anyway, I have it somewhere But yeah, that really raised some eyebrows because everyone's like till death do us part till death do us part till death do us part And I actually read it from nathania brand and not in that book But he did an interview about romantic love in the 80s or 90s or something And I saw him discuss that and for me that meant You know, I was marrying this woman on the condition that you know a couple conditions such as that she was not a prostitute That wasn't really explicit. That was that was more of implied But specific to things like any kind of domestic violence Series abuse like that infidelity. I had zero tolerance for that shit Which is why two years later the minute I discovered the adultery and then prostitution I left immediately that ring came off in 15 minutes flat But that's that's what I met my life for death do us part and I think most people In practice, most people live like that. Anyway, look at the fucking divorce rates They get divorced for all kinds of frivolous crap. Yeah. Yeah, but never mind serious stuff That's a serious boundary violation and that is life Doing us part. Goodbye And I think most men should maintain boundaries like that with the tyrant Anthony you're doing a great job talking about boundaries boundaries are absolutely and essential in a relationship And boundaries are conditions Absolutely, and so that therefore it's conditional And so philly you were kind of pushing them on this the whole thing of a man who has frame has non-negotiables And and that's a boundary and so and usually there's just a few there's you know, if you uh, you know If you have sex with another man, if uh, you know, there's there's only a couple things These are the boundaries non-negotiables that if this happens, we're done or or the thing about this relationship We're seriously going to take a hit And that's being able to say no and that's the condition that we're talking about What I was really pushing in on because you're talking about the frivolous crap And that's that's where if it's not part of my non-negotiables Um, then That's where I have to be able to stay with my commitment. It's my vow It's the thing especially if you have kids to be able to go man I'm not going to break this shit up just because of you know, something happened or or some You know, you made a mistake or whatever if it goes against the non-negotiables Obviously, yeah, then we're going to talk about this or or it may break the relationship I mean, that's even setting an example for your children as a son or your Absolutely, they should not tolerate that in their future. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely Children do look to you as the example. This is why this is why we've discussed. Hey, it's very important for the husband and the wife to have a To interact with each other so that children can see what a what a healthy functioning Uh marriage or relationship looks like I'll put it to you this way women love to say they love unconditionally and I think they say this because If women women are a lot of things But they want to be they want to think of themselves as morally superior They don't they would they don't like to think of themselves as quote shallow as as far as they're concerned If there are conditions to loving a man if you don't love a man unconditional unconditionally you are shallow This is why they call them in shallow when we say listen if you get fat, you're gone I'll put it to you this way regardless of what these what these women say or do if I stop being what I was Devon with vanish no doubt and she should if I can't keep her in line if I can't demand her best If I lose my ability to physically protect her if I don't take pride in my in my personal appearance If I don't if I become lazy and unmotivated she check out These are all things that I had before I found her that doesn't make her a bad person gentlemen This makes her a woman and I'll put it to you like this. I don't want to get your opinion on this phil In my mind expecting a woman to love you unconditionally It's kind of like putting your trust in your climbing gear regardless of the condition it's in What sense would it make to put your life at the mercy of faulty climbing gear your ropes and hooks are frayed They're all rusty. They're falling apart But because when you got them they were in perfect condition and never let you down You're supposed to risk your life based on what they were as opposed to what they are now That's what you're asking a female to do when you expect her to love you unconditionally When you've let yourself go in so many ways But then you expect her to feel exactly the same as she did back when you met her when you were dominating life to me That's unrealistic. So what are your thoughts on? The and I guess we'll call again the masculine burden of performance Why why is it that you and steve and everybody on this panel embrace this and why most men Want to put it in cruise control. She should love me for me if she wants me to love her for her You know, you know my thoughts on that it's plain and simple, you know men men like to be comfortable, you know So, yes, you know, it's it's hard to take care of yourself, you know It's tough. Oh, I gotta go lift weights and watch what I eat and do the right thing 80 of the time and You know, everybody's always looking for a freaking cheat code guys. I work with they're always trying to look for the work around on the diet Hey, I need to lose this weight to get to this body fat, but I can't I can't give up the booze. I'm a drinker. Oh, I gotta have that alcohol You know, well, then you don't want it. You don't want it bad enough You know to to expect your woman to Just lay down when you become A fatty, you know unmotivated If you don't have your financial house in order, but when you guys met you were in shape You were Financially stable, you know, you were a pillar that she could actually Grab on to that's the whole point of this whole thing. You're the rock, you know, and they kind of cleaved to that rock You know rock. You know, so the way I look at it is if you can't do that Hell, yeah, she's gonna look somewhere else. Right. Hell, yeah You know and on Go ahead No, go ahead and on the inverse of that. It's the same way for me You know, you have to make weight in my house, you know, camp was talking about the non-negotiables You know, the big thing for me. There's there's non-negotiables and and my non-negotiables My list is pretty serious. You know what? I mean, you know, I have a I have a weight limit You know that I like my wife to be, you know, I have a certain expectation on the way she looks and dresses out in public Is that weight limit to literally numerical? Yeah, oh, yeah, that's amazing. That's awesome. It gets bigger tips though. Does it get changed? Yeah, it's well, we factor that in but she's already got bigger boobs. So it's all good. We live in Texas, you know The land of double d's and suv so Okay, all right, great. So it's everything's bigger in Texas, right? That's right, brother It's set for her waistline That's for her waistline. Okay So here's the deal, you know, my wife my wife will actually go out and she's you know, she's like god I need to go talk to that woman. She needs some friggin help You know, literally, you know, the way I look at it and the way she looks at it is she has an expectation to meet as well so you know I think that where was I going with this? You kind of distract me with the tits The non-negotiables. Yeah, so can can brought that up You know, my biggest thing is not having the same conversation twice Once we talk about it once it should be a done deal That's it forever That's my non-negotiable right there if we have a scrape over something we get through that scrape and that's it That's the end of it. We don't need to deal with that ever again because it won't happen Right, right, right? And if we have to have that second if we if we do have to have that second conversation not a conversation It's going to be something much more boisterous Erie code 469 keeps jumping in and out of the queue. Steve go ahead Again, I don't I don't you know me. I always like to go on this other side of the street I don't want to give these guys a false sense of reality They got to understand something in life women's metabolism slows down Baby weight comes into the equation. Yeah, you can get your woman to work out and all this other stuff But i'ma tell y'all from my ex gigolo Most of the women I used to smash you had whose husbands were fit and I've had all this stuff going for them You know, they had the perfect job the nice house on the hill in a nice car I was smashing at women on the side and their greatest complaint was that these men didn't know how to be They didn't know how to hold their wives. See we with a lot of guys gonna stand. Yes Women like we all as men. We can't expect women to look at At us the way we look at them women. Yes women do love sexy things But when women when when women falls in love with you, they don't fall in love They understand that we all go get old There's gonna get a little uh fad on you and again, you can't work out and cut that off No one's saying you can't but at the end of the day She's gonna love you for what you are and what you bring to her emotionally. They're not they're not a logic here They're running on emotion. So and again, um, you all are right at what y'all saying But I don't want these guys to get us a wrong sense of reality that uh, that just because they still fit At 40 or 50 that their wives are happy because no, no, no, that is not what we're saying and and this is I'm glad that you said this being fit doesn't guarantee you a goddamn thing As a man any more than they guarantee you anything for a woman. However However, it does again and steve you and I we have to tell our guys this all the time Guys say well, it's just money and looks and being rich and ripped that get no, no No, they get two opportunities with women There are many rich good-looking ripped men who are terrible with women because they don't have that inner game They don't have grassland that self-confidence is based on external things my body my dick my money Yeah, okay girls will give you a look but when they get with you and they see that you don't You're not really much of anything except for what you have on the outside That's when they check out But by the same token these things are important these things can be important to women Obviously the guy who's who's much stronger on the inside is gonna have It's gonna have more success in terms of keeping his woman in line than the guy who does not But as far as i'm concerned i'm not gonna Yeah, I agree the older woman gets the the tougher it is for her to keep in shape You want to know something? I just built the gym in my In my in my garage So I need so and the way I see it is this and i'll get your opinion on this Ken and anthony because i'm interested to hear what you had at what you guys have to say I can't ask my woman to do anything that i'm not willing to do myself if i'm gonna tell debon Hey, you better keep in shape that guess what I got to keep my ass in shape too That's a condition that i'm putting on myself and her What are your thoughts on sort of double On tondra type conditions ken Double on tondra. Give me tell me more about what you mean by that Well, in other words, there are a lot of and women who expect things from their partner their husbands their wives their girlfriends that they Right, right, right or double standard double standard is what you're going after Yeah, they're yeah, sorry the the idea of double standard and everything Yeah, of course of course and this is part of the whole thing I think it pushes into the idea of of how do we how do we empower each other And and and I love what steve's talking about because the woman's empowered by emotional connection And and that that's a deep deep thing and and also So me being the strongest man I can be is not just strength by lifting I'm also have and and this is a really gosh This will take us the totally different thing Place is the whole idea of being a being emotionally open or vulnerable with my woman I mean that's that's something that is an incredibly profound thing and I believe it's a very masculine thing And it's I only I only do that with one person pretty much in my life Is be open and vulnerable with one person and that's being able to provide her that my emotional open My space that heart space within me That's me giving that and I think the non negotiable is how do you handle that if you handle that with respect back to steve's word And I want to hear more about respect as well But this is me. This is who I am here. I am open and this is my my being This is these are the things that that I love these are the things that I'm passionate about These are the things that are important to me This is who I am and if you respect that and care for that well I'm gonna I'm going to continue my openness with you and I'm going to continue providing you with that emotional connection But if you break that I'm gonna close it off and that's kind of what phil is talking about. Boom. There's the wall There's that's the non negotiable. Is that voluntary? Do you think say that again? Is that voluntary or is that involuntary? Oh, this is this is are you talking about for her? It's involuntary Well, both both if oh no, no, so this is this is absolutely voluntary. This is me choosing I have to choose. I'm gonna choose to be open. I'm choosing to give I'm choosing to provide for her what she needs And she's providing for me with what I need, but it's on a different level than needing you to validate me I mean that that's a cheap ass piece. That's nothing that whole the whole infatuation thing But this is us moving to a completely different level in our relationship where this is about commitment It's about choice. It's about providing it is it is I am choosing to provide my openness to you You choose to provide respect for me and we're good Okay, very good. Um, let's go to the phone lines here area code area code four six nine You're on live at the red man group. Go ahead Hey, you guys so, uh, I want to apologize because I know you uh, so like I was telling myself on the Live but I I'm following you guys I've been following the 21 group for a minute and I got to say you guys are really life changing out here And you guys were talking about, you know working out and stuff in the patriarch holding the women accountable So I wanted to um, you know, you guys perspective on Should the women hold themselves accountable for the things that they do and the contribution in their relationship? Or is that mainly the man's duty to Like hold them accountable If that makes sense, I think I'll go first. I think it can be a little bit of both and I'll tell you why Women are capable of holding themselves accountable, but they don't In my opinion a woman's default Mechanism her default setting is self-destruct And this is why when you give women any kind of control any kind of soul independent control over anything They destroy it if they're single until they're 30 they destroy themselves with alcohol dick and chocolate cake If a single mother raises her children and if she raises her children by herself She destroys her children her daughters become sluts her son either becomes gay or a criminal or a gay criminal Like it's it's like women are self-destructive now under the guidance and tutelage of a man To be clear and backed on of and up the stats on single motherhood are that bad I mean I talk to the best and I say a lot of things tongue-in-cheek, but they're rooted in truth So in terms of a woman holding herself accountable A woman is more likely to hold herself accountable if she knows that if she does not the man will hold Her accountable, but expecting a woman to independently hold herself accountable to me. That's wishful thinking you have to She has to know that you're going to hold her accountable before she holds herself accountable and nine times out of 10 You're going to have to be the one to call her out. What are you guys's thoughts? dude man, you're uh, this is one of the things that uh That probably the most important of veta woman when you when you start a relationship I think the number one thing is is she a woman that can be held accountable does she hold herself accountable? I think that easily easily me that's like that shows more character about that woman than anything and to Donovan to your point as far as self-destruct I think if women listen to and and live by the narrative that's being taught to women Kind of the feminist agenda They will fall apart it is self-destructive, but that's not the only narrative out there And there are women who actually can be held accountable and actually do hold themselves accountable And those are women of character and there are some women out there like that And so being able to find a woman like that and be able to then be a man who has boundaries That's the accountability and being able to say no you can't treat me this way or no That's not right to be able to talk this way or or whatever And I think and if they if she respects that and she listens to it and she is is teeming with you on that Okay, let's do this right. Um I think the best illustration of this has been the whole idea that The feminine is fluid and the masculine is solid and the feminine flows like a river And the masculine is the river bank saying we're going this way or this is the way we're going That's the accountability. We're talking about the leadership. We're talking about The frame we're talking about being able to say this is where the family's going. This is where the relationship's going This is behavior. That's good or bad. I'm yeah direction. Absolutely. This is where we're going letting her flow. She's she's a female She's flowing. It's beautiful. It's awesome But but here's a little bit of direction that i'm giving in my life in our in our relationship And being able to say this is where we're going or this is where we're going or this is good or this is not right Uh to back up I want to hit on a point ken just made um So my view my theory I've thought about this for a little while now Probably about a year and a half or something like that is that For women to take accountability for themselves to become self-responsible the character trait that ken's talking about I think that's very difficult for them, but it is possible I think it's the equivalent in men of not thinking with your dick and thinking with your head Which is very hard for young men to overcome. This is why we have the saying young dumb and full of cum And as I met in their 20s get into a lot of it's one of the reasons men can get into toxic relationships Personality disorders involved or not just unhealthy dysfunctional things So I think for women to do that they can do it and it's hard It's difficult and a lot of them don't do it until later after they've been run at least today through the feminist meat grinder of Tinder and you know the cock carousel getting fat drinking like crazy All kinds of shenanigans they get into STD is abortions all kinds of crap But it can be done and I think that the ones especially that come from better households with better fathers and mothers that parent them right They tend to adopt this better and you see this I think in non-western nations Like I've seen in poland and stuff like that and even I think in parts of south america where family culture is a lot more intact Unlike in the west where the nuclear family and extended family has been viciously attacked by feminists and otherwise For a long long time So yeah, I think it can be done. I think it's it is super attractive to see that but it's due to my experience in america today It's really rare and millennials and younger. Maybe in the older generations. It was more common. You'd find that but today It's just a shit show and around Okay Go ahead. Well, yeah, I was saying this is why I always push um When I meet when I tell my clients about women, it's not about sex. It's about your time You know, I don't want to waste my time. I know what I want from a woman I'm already vetting her from jump street and as far as accountability wise. I expect now if we get in a relationship I expect to be able to pay her bills Her credit score has got to be decent and she's got to be able to handle herself without without asking me for money And things like that But these are some of the things that young men need to look at Before they even try to push a woman through a threshold or move her into her house And it's not just about her her body Remember guys when she's with you, she should be a representation of your laws rules codes and standards So that's important darling, but I'm sorry. I didn't want to interrupt you I was actually going to come to you because this actually uh goes to another question that That a tatter put in there He wanted you to explain why you believe respect you want a woman's respect Before you want her love because in my opinion, I think you share this opinion A woman cannot love you if she does not respect you so explain to the end what you were saying there Yeah, I'm not I'm not in the love game now. I could fall in love with you later But respect is is like again, you got to understand that I'm a kind of man that I expect certain things from certain people, especially women in myself. I listen. I'm a drama-free man I if you bring any drama in my life, you're you'll get your papers and you're gone and that's just how I am I'm more old school with this. I don't have time There's too many women out there for me to sit around and then go to marriage counseling No, frisky. No physical again. Go to marriage counseling. Go to marriage counseling. You know what I mean? Not I just say it's not a bad thing. I'm just saying It's too many women out there to sit there and have to try to work on something You know, if you're fighting me on everything if you're if you're going against my principles and me trying to lead us Then we you can either be a booty call or I'm a move on I'm not doing that Into the tape man I always I say F love I want you to fall into respect and falling in respect is is not raising your voice Is not throwing things at me not telling what I can and can't do like you're my mother That's the first hurdle we got to get passed up until you get my love because my love is is is very precious to me You've got to remember you've got to kill the militar and break his hand to the top of my killer major Just to get my attention. So it's a it's time Attention respect then we can discuss love later on but you just don't give love away like that Phil Interjects some quick christmas spirit here. This is a book. I thought would be pretty funny I'm not advocating violence against ken or any other marriage counselors. Just a book first kill all the marriage counselors I haven't read it about I bought it a while ago. I think I said you sound you sound like iven I haven't thrown. Oh jesus. He was fault on the marriage counselors I think the book as I understood it when I bought it. It's about Marriage counselors who are not like ken curry and other ones like dr. Glover and stuff The more run-of-the-mill ones that will tell men, you know, happy wife happy life things like this Things that are much more blue pill and unhealthy and they're not promascule and then they're not I think they're very different from what ken operates and in my understanding ken, you're not, you know What you believe and what you preach in your practice is not standard for your industry because I understand it No, it's not No, our our industry is uh has taken a big shift in the last 20 years It's it's crazy because uh in my field the Marriage and family therapy gosh 30 years ago is it was a really strong masculine male, um I mean the people most of the guys that created marriage and family therapy were men And there are a few women in there But uh now. Oh my gosh. It's our field of therapy Man, it's like 80 percent women Well and most of the women What what's that donovan you're talking about most when you're talking about women running anything whatever it is They're running put it in air quotes. Yeah. Yeah, it's well. It's it's just like that's uh Most therapists are women and most of those therapists even a lot of the male therapists have been uh given um, their their training is through a uh the the feminist uh Um imperative so that's that's kind of how it is. So yeah, this is a uh, yes Phil So on respect and and I think this is I mean, I don't know This is kind of a a home run question. I can't imagine just on the panel Whatever say well, listen a woman doesn't have to respect you to love you But there are people who would quite possibly be listening to this that say wait a minute Why is respect intrinsic to love? Well, I will tell you this if my wife Begins to disrespect me and not follow as steve would say code codes rules and ethics She's got to go You know, because I respect myself first You know, she's probably listening right now and it's the truth And she knows it, you know The the way I look at it is, you know, if you put a woman in control, it's kind of like a racket Ralph Y'all remember that video game? Yes, let me say I'm gonna wreck it They have no control at all. They they they do that and that's because that's that's putting them in an element to Uh putting them in an element. They aren't designed for they are designed to nurture and raise children And and care for the home and whatnot And we are designed To lead And direct and that's it, you know, and that's how I feel about it You know, I think that respect goes a long ways, you know In in designing how a relationship will work, you know, I think that Unfortunately ken you're you're probably gonna be upset about this What i'm about to say is please, you know when it comes to marriage counseling This is how good I've my experience has been my ex-wife and I went to marriage counseling and I'm here to tell you when I sat down. It was nothing but a negotiation Oh, Jesus Christ, you know, and so, you know, and it was her idea She's like, look, I can get these 10 sessions for free and we're gonna go and work this out and it's all gonna be good Look, I'm not gonna negotiate for for behavior that I desire and make that makes me happy and respect in my home and to me So we got through a couple sessions and the counselor looked at me and he goes, mr. Foster Uh, you can go ahead and step out and he looked at my ex-wife and he has said you just need to stay And so it was like it was clear as plain as day that you know, hey, I'm I'm not interested in negotiating anything here I'm interested in what I need To be my needs to be met. I don't I don't care about the rest of it. She had zero respect You can't go to respect What's that? This is what it comes down to. Yeah, absolutely And if you're being disrespected and this goes for anybody man or woman if you're being disrespected or if you feel like you know, uh Your boundaries are constantly being crossed and you just need to put the other person on notice straight up and say Hey, this this isn't working for me. You know, I gotta go. I can't do this You know and uh, you know, I've had some you know in in my marriage with my wife now I mean we've been together 10 years And uh, we've had scrapes. I mean because we're freaking married. You know what I mean Of course, but you know, I let her know real quick. Hey, this this can't continue on like this We got a you know, and and so it's kind of like going back to the river And in the short uh analogy, you know, it's it's like course correction, you know I see that drift And it's like, you know sailing a ship. I just kind of put her up. Absolutely. Absolutely. Nope And uh, and that goes to say that, you know, the example set to my daughter You know, my wife sets an excellent example You know hair makeup clothes on point before she even leaves the house Hell when she goes to work out, she looks right Now I'm not saying she's some cardio bunny up there and you got her ass all hanging out, but you know what I'm saying You know, but the moral of the story is is you know You have to find and and it's tough these days. You have to find a woman that can be Uh that respects herself and you know, unfortunately, it's a dumpster fire for any woman that's under 35 You know what? I mean in my personal opinion, a lot of these women, they just don't care anymore because The social media they're being fed. Oh, it's cool to get out and get drunk and have 50 cocks run through you You know and uh do a bunch of drugs and drop out of school. I mean, it's just it is just what it is You know, I'm in the middle of all that shit and it is a shit show man Like going to poem this year was the best thing I've done in years for my my Mental health with regards to women Yeah, it's it's a shit show man. It's not every all these girls are sugar babies They're they're they're all engaging the soft prostitution the rampant drugs It's like these music festivals and shit single single motherhood in Orlando's rampant or the surrounding areas We even have nicknames for the cities around here like altamont is altamont springs Uh wonder mom gardens like all these winter because it's like winter garden. It's fucking ridiculous I didn't even make these up. This is the shit I hear. It's like it's so prevalent and it's not just Orlando It's like any I think, you know, meaningfully sized American city that's going on and sats back it up Like single motherhoods have been on the rise. I think it's harder than it's ever been right now Approximately easily easily America that found the other day is the high has the highest rate of single motherhood on the planet Literally out of every fucking country on the planet Russia actually or no Russian Some countries are surprisingly high, but America is the highest and I think the uk is like second or third behind that So yeah, it's like what the fuck is going on they can win the friggin divorce lottery You know the kid lot have any motivation keep it's crazy. It's crazy. It's a piggyback off of what anthony just said Um, there is what I believe to be an ignorant comment in the chat And I would like for you guys to disagree with me if you think this So vivian venetia says there are many men who do not recognize or respect submission when it is given It is rejected or blows up the ego to the point where the man destroys the respect 100% bullshit This kind of narrative this kind of bullshit that women like to spew That is their excuse not to submit to a man. That's it Well, I don't submit because when it's given men don't respect submission. No men do respect submission I've never met him. I've never met a woman who says, you know what? The reason why he dumped me is because i'm just because i'm just too feminine The reason he dumped me is because i'm too submissive to me that false narrative Bullshit statements like that. These are the things that women cling to to avoid doing the hard thing That comes with that comes with with getting with a man of high quality and a man of high value I'm not going to be I'm not going to be submissive because there are a lot of men who don't respect submission That's bullshit. So let me put the question to the panel one word answer anthony. Do you respect us? Do you respect submission by a woman? Yes Okay, ken. Yes, Steve. I have some more to add to it. But yeah, I'll come back around for the additions here Steve I know C senior And phil do you respect submission in a woman? Yes, sir. Okay. So anthony Explain what you mean when you say yes I'm not going to do to destroy a woman who is being submissive to me. No, yeah, of course So I why my additional commentary on the yes is an 80 20 So 80 yes 20 no, and I don't I'm not referring to myself referring the stats on that demographics. Okay There are plenty of men that I might even have this the well I'm just saying 80 20 kind of lucy goosey on it But there's plenty of men who have been blue cool conditioned by rampant disney feminist bullshit their whole lives And when they see submission in a woman and things like that, they don't even know what the fuck you're looking at There are plenty of beta schmucks out there not to beat on them too much But they don't know what they're looking at. They don't know how to respond to it Think about the male feminists. You think they're going to respond well to The man that vivian is talking about that no she's not talking Mamby Pamby soy boys like let's not pretend that that's who vivian's talking about because she knows she's not Yeah, most likely. I mean she I agree with you most someone will So I've seen this so you see this on instagram all the time even on tinder and shit these women it is bullshit They're it's a game they're playing in public and it's fucking stupid So yeah, I'd agree with you on that there's there's a lot of you know stupid bullshit going on there But there's also a genuine component where men Dude probably by the millions that this shit happens in their real instant sort of relationship Whether it's young or older and they don't know how to handle it. They don't know what to do with it They don't know how to have a healthy mask in response to it They don't know how to fucking you know when she submits grab her by the throat and fuck the shit out of her Like what she wants, right? I'm assuming this is like in the moment, you know, whatever the fuck's going on To me that is a far cry from it being rejected there Listen men don't reject submissive women. There are a lot of men out there that don't know how to act Like they're like, oh, wait a minute. She's being submissive. She's asking me permission To do equine z. What do I do to me? That is a far cry from rejection. Steve. What are your thoughts on this? So you said yes, I do respect submission in a woman. I do not destroy her via submission Well, yeah, but this is a statement from a grassy line who hasn't had a piece of ass since he came out of one And this is probably a lot of guys Yeah, they sit around and make all these these goofy ass statements and everything and you could tell that They don't even have women even say that listen the woman submits to you. She's supposed to submit to you That's that's how they are. You know what? Why would you cool? Why would you feel some kind of way because she's looking and seeking for your approval? She wants you to lead her through the tunnel What is the problem? I mean when you when you when you say those asinine statements It shows why the women that are listening to this show right now Why they run guys like or excuse me grassy lines like you because they smell weakness in the water By your statements, man. So I don't want to say man phil Yes, sir What are your thoughts on see obviously you're you're married. You're in a relationship Would you ever destroy a woman using her submissiveness? I completely Let that submissiveness flourish There you know the the more she submits The more she is able to do her feminine things, you know, she's happy Yes, you know when you start giving When you start giving her control It starts diving man to the ground, you know, it's basically, you know, I think that She's happiest when she's got her apron on and she's baking for the neighbors And you know, she's she's killing it on her schedule for the for our daughter at school And everything is done in her home and it's clean and it's when those things fall out of line That I see that she struggles, you know, so I think a woman that is submissive to her man is a beautiful thing Now there are some ding dongs out there that will take That submissiveness for granted and abuse them, you know, it doesn't have to be like that. It really doesn't I mean we live a pretty We live a some we live a similar lifestyle to some other guys that live that are on this show occasionally and and You know the the the whole submissive thing is pretty much I would say a contract between the two of us to where, you know, hey, this this is the expectations that I expect from you And to for me to receive those expectations fulfilled I need to make sure that my part is being done as well If if you're if you're destroying a woman for being submissive to you You're an idiot, you know, absolutely And I think you guys are right a lot of the soy boys out there and a lot of this younger like generation You know, they're they're they're pretty feminized You know the Yep, and the male feminists, you know as well, you know, it's like, oh, well, it's all girl power And and that's the real big problem right there is, you know feminism has taken that that submissiveness out of women unfortunately and Just wiped it away really I would add to feel that the the women have had to beaten out of them the submission that they're My feminism, but they're not supposed to submit that it's bad that it's submitting to the patriarchy and your oppressors And I was a bullshit on top of that what I was saying with the guy It's not just soy boys. Like it's not just that there's plenty of guys even like You could say like a blue pill alpha or like a masculinized beta They don't know when a woman submits to you genuinely she's looking for a positive alpha response Like that part of your brain and if you don't give that to her and she is genuinely giving it to you That creates conflict. They don't like that and they have a right not to like that They should be expecting like if they want to get fucking a belt around the neck and get fucked savagely And that's what they were pushing for and submit or whatever the case is right I'm using sex in this case But they're expecting like the feedback from that to be positive and feminism is throwing a wrench into that At a deep level in culture because this is how people are raised This is you grew up watching this disney bullshit like these kids are now like frozen and all this crap Everybody's a fucking princess and all this no consequence bullshit. Whatever else is in there It's a shit show and that gets ingrained into your head man over You know when you're a kid when you're when you're a sponge and getting that out is tough Here's a disconnect An area code 443 I see you in the queue. I'm gonna get to you in just one second Women don't see submission is voluntary A woman you cannot make a woman submit to you You can't make her do it just to want to because submission is simply the act of relinquishing control Okay, and a woman's not going to relinquish control a man who can't who is not in control women don't like controlling men They don't love controlling men They love men who are in control and I think a lot of women And women know this they know the difference a lot of guys don't women know the difference But but again to give themselves permission not to submit they use bullshit Well, if a man's gonna destroy me, you know destroys the respect get the hell out of here I'll tell you a quick story and then we'll go to ericoad 443 last night This is this is actually respect and submission last night for yesterday afternoon I I I met a reservation for an expensive restaurant wanted to take devin out for dinner Have a nice time blah blah blah blah blah Well about a half an hour before we before our our reservation was supposed to take place She wakes up. She's all groggy eyed I'm and I told her I was like, look, I'm canceling the I'm canceling the reservation I'd already done she's like what I can be ready in five minutes. I said, oh no No, no, no, no I didn't make a reservation at this restaurant for you to be ready in five minutes Okay If you want to listen if you want to be ready in five minutes I can take you to tji fridays. I can take you to chilies I can take it apple bees But if we're going to go to the place that I want us to go to Being ready in five minutes or less ain't gonna cut it and I listen I was getting ready for for for some queso dip and the the chocolate lava cake So I came in here and I just tilled out and got to work Devin went to the bathroom and probably in about 45 minutes She showered did her hair curled her hair came back out and as soon as I smelled that perfume I said, okay now she's doing what she's supposed to do. That's the masculine response She's looking for she doesn't want me to Get in the shower. I know uh-uh If you don't want to take the time to look the part for this restaurant Then I'm simply going to remove the reservation when she upheld her end of the bargain I upheld mine that is submission and respect You're not going to disrespect where I'm taking you by putting your hair in a ponytail and no no no no You need to get your ass in the shower. You need to shave everything from the eyebrows down Put on a skirt and heels and we're gonna have Ended up being a great night ended up being an unbelievable night Donovan donovan let before you go to the call Let me yeah, let me because I this whole thing of submission everything I'm a I'm a really strong advocate for our masculinity being a um, uh, a natural thing It's in a dna, right? It's a and and when I experience submission when I experience Vulnerability from my my wife. It's like man. It activates something completely deep and powerful within me I want to rise up and be strong. I want to be a man of fortitude. I want to protect I want to provide it's like it it activates something within me that just is like damn. I'm your man And and so the opposite of of rejecting a woman or controlling a woman It's like she through being a submissive woman activates something so deep and strong within me That's really powerful and it's and this is the thing It's it's a really significant The how the masculine feminine and the polarity and how it all flows together and it is incredibly beautiful Well to play devil's advocate, uh, this is also reason why feign submission fake submission is a powerful Manipulation tool that women want to manipulate you. Yes And it takes time to develop the experience and the wisdom to see through that Yeah, I mean, it's not personality detours chicks chicks will definitely do that But even ones even ones who just want to get their way in some other mechanism because of whatever fucking reason Uh, yeah, you got to watch out for that and that's talking about the manuscript to a good degree But maybe not enough. Well, this is exactly why I tell my guys You got to put a woman through her paces any woman can act submissive for a month and a half Right any woman can fake the funk for six months You have to put her through her paces for at least a year year and a half You need to put her through four seasons twice to know who she really is Well, what if she fakes the funk for two years donovan then what well at two years She's not really faking anymore because that now becomes who she really is I disagree. I mean, you're talking about levels of dedication that are going to be statistically spread through the population And chicks who are more dedicated to this like do madusa was people don't understand this to my ex-wife She was like this perfect trad con wife as far as everyone who met her from friend consistently You know friends coming by on the weekend speakers Family like absolutely played this for years I did a good did a good job by the way that's an extreme example though. What's up? Okay? That makes sense and so I would I and you're right, anthony I would qualify this statement and I think madusa's probably dark triad, right? Absolutely. Yeah, d and I'm not a I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist Most women can't pull off what madusa did Here that do this if you run a box one god help you I got I got no answers for you I mean in her case I think you know Whatever was going on in her brain and her past and her trauma and whatever the all that the combination of that That caused the kind of behavior not just with me, but everyone in her life ever That's that's what you're seeing is an expression and motivation and behavior in real life And other women are going to have very variations of that. You're saying four seasons twice Other guys would say one set of four seasons. Dude, some guys get married in six months. That should last 40 years So it's that's a hard way. That doesn't happen today. Maybe back in the 19 Oh, I met I met melvin and he swept me off my feet and in one month We got married and here we are 58. There's amish people today floating around getting married I'm sure that they have a still with one of the three percent divorce rate or something. Amish people Yeah, that's that's that's that's an outlier example, but Yes, I'm just saying that yeah, it's your it's a continuum of motive of behavior and how dedicated They are going to be to their cause And for most of them, yeah, they're not going to make a past two years I agree with that that to keep a fake mask up that long is fucking hard But someone will be able to do that disordered or not in the personality section Only is genuine as her mission dictates that's that's all there is to it If her mission is to lock you down then she will be genuinely feminine If her mission is to take advantage of you, she will be genuinely feminine Until she gets her command. I mean her mission is probably to survive and reproduce like every other human being So you got to keep an eye out for that shit mystery, right? Survival reproduction. Uh, let's go to airy code 443 airy code 443. You're on live with the red man group. Go ahead Good afternoon gentlemen Uh, yeah, what's your question? Yeah, good afternoon How are you all? Good, what's your question? I appreciate this panel that you have on today because I was raised by a man single-handedly in a culture that did not accept that And I truly Truly agree the fact that respect is very important towards a man Uh, he'll not be able to carry on responsibility if he has a woman who's gonna be weighing down sudden Waits on him based on disrespecting what he plans to do now, uh hindsight women don't think In the futuristic sense sometimes they always think about themselves and only now what satisfies them because of their highly Run emotional life. You don't say and that's what they're losing things So when I look at females and we are here trying to give a man a hard time It's better off not to because if you're not aligned with respecting him, you're not going to get anywhere I'm picking up an accent Caller i'm picking up an accent. Where are you from and what country were you raised in? I was raised by a Kenyan dad single-handedly that's in Africa and it was back in the 70s where Even a divorce was not Allow Jesus What happened is when you they had to do a dark thing exchange you pay for your bride Unfortunately, my mother did not meet the standard of being a good bride as much as she was a mother He then went back and asked the whole Family you're gonna have to give me a refund which is really unheard of because why Refund Yeah, he said y'all want my money back man bring back the dairy talk dairy man Wow Wow You can keep the children as well I'm his firstborn and when he raised me trusted Barbie dolls were thrown out because he said this is where the game starts You buy Barbie dolls the next thing you know Ken and Barbie are playing Ken is the one who's coming to bring things to barbie. She's building a home and ken is not a happy man He's just been riding in a car So you do that out You want to see problems you're gonna have to respect what goes through the process of solving problems I think for a call area code 443 So she's raised in Kenya and obviously there are some different elements In the country of Kenya that obviously don't apply in the west But the general principle was is if a woman does not uphold her end of the see What they'll said earlier 100 spot on all relationships from romantic relationships business relationships They're all transactional A woman is exchanging her sexual exclusivity for a man's resources. This is this is conditional up If you don't give me exclusivity, I'm not gonna give you resources That's really what it boils down to and this woman was raised in a culture that was like, hey Listen, what you can't cook. Nope. I want my money back probably got the receipt took her back and and hopefully took uh Took uh took another one home. Um, I'm gonna pose one more question to the panel and hopefully whatever airy code 402 Has to say about this. I'm gonna pose the questions at the panel first then I'm gonna get to airy code 402 male love versus female love um A lot of people seem to think that men love exactly the same as women do some people say that men love Sacrificially women love opportunistically. I'm not listen. I'm not smart enough to do that level of mental gymnastics So I'll start with ken. I think you're probably the one most qualified in terms of uh of the head doctor stuff What in your opinion is the difference between the way a man loves and the way a woman loves in both the romantic relationship and paternity Donovan you're cutting up. Yeah, I didn't get the last part of that. You completely froze Donovan Man down man overboard Didn't get the last part of what you said Donovan Okay, can you can you hear me now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe just kind of rephrase the whole thing and try to sort of We lost a lot of it. No, no, absolutely What's the difference between male love and female love in a romantic sense and a parental sense Men love differently from women obviously romantically, but do they love differently as far as their children are concerned So I think one of the best things that the man is fear and the red pill community in particular has ever done I've never seen anyone else do it is distinguish between male and female love Because there's a focus on the idea and the fact that men and women are different Uh biologically physically psychologically all these things So I saw that at first in 2016 when I found the red pill community and I was fascinated by it and I still am And even philosophically I've never seen anyone else outside of this community Do that distinguish between the two and I do think that men and women love differently And that's where a lot of the confusion and the disagreement comes from It's a man of like expectations about how women are going to love them like unconditionally and all this crap And a lot of it's fed by feminism and bloopal stuff a lot of it's not And I do think that we we love women differently And we value different things we we value we love differently because we value differently and we value Differently because we're physically fundamentally different. I like that Our whole life experience is different as children It's different puberty is different as adults. It's different as a wife versus a husband, you know being that it's different I mean, they're a whole what arouses them turns them on and drives them to be passionate and to live life is different from us We admire for example beauty in women and I don't think that it's the same way in reverse You know women do admire the way we appear in things like that, but it's different I mean think about artists throughout history and what they painted as inspired by women or of women Versus other way around and things like that And you know women, you know even phil look at his relationship with his wife He talks about her being nurturing and these how he values his things and his boundaries He has he leads he commands things and she fucking loves that. I can guarantee you I have no doubt about what he's saying That to me is actually very that should be pretty normal The fact the fact that today that it's not is pretty strange Like n talks about this is natural your masculinity is natural It's encoded in your dna and when a woman submits it should arouse that and you'd inspire that in you Especially if it's genuine. It's not being a ploy for something else So and ram would you want to get parental stuff? I want to let the rest of the town talk. I don't want to keep you happen Yeah, what do you think is the difference between male and female love as far as their children are concerned? Well, the children so the whole thing of the the father's posture the mother's posture is totally different um A father's posture is I want my kids to grow up as a confident strong people Who can handle just about anything that life handles or throws at them? And so it's about confidence I'm I want my kids to be strong And so that's why a dad has no problem throwing his kids into the void or throwing them into the difficult situation Or or creating more strong a discipline or even initiation possibly Um, uh, a mother's energy is about well-being safety security making sure everybody's okay making sure everybody's fed making sure everybody's nurtured It's a totally different energy and and oftentimes it it collides big time Um, I remember when my my oldest my daughter, uh, she did a gap year between high school and college and and what she did she did A really cool thing a mission in uh, and where she first went to amsterdam And this is back when we didn't have cell phones like we do is 2004 I think and um, so we didn't have all this Real-time connection and so she so she flew out and we're all watching her go You know into the secure through security and everything and my wife man It was the worst agony she ever experienced because it's like what's going to happen with my daughter And and she was just agon. I mean true agony Because she had no idea about her well-being me on the other hand I'm like go kill it go do it completely different energy And that and that's the difference between how men and women fathers and mothers Um, love their children and we're talking to ken about how it can collide But to me it sounds like and i'm assuming you would agree with this just based on what I know of your work But it's also very complimentary or that it can be and it should be most of the time Absolutely, and so and this goes back to respect me respecting that that's my wife's passion And and that well-being and and safety is a really big deal. I need to respect it. I need to understand my woman I need to understand your children your children need that from absolutely Absolutely, absolutely And she needs my wife needs respect that this is my passion I want our and because she understands that that's a powerful thing as well And so I think loving our kids as parents it comes out in a different form It's a different energy but respecting each other man So much what we're talking about today is respect And and respecting what she brings to the table What she respecting what I bring to the table and working together as a really powerful team Man, I'm telling you it's it's a really significant thing If there's one thing that I think feminism is fundamentally Almost destroyed at this point completely its respect between the genders And I think at every level not just in a marriage or a specific relationship But the whole culture we see that and you don't you don't feel that when I went to poland for example again Like that's completely non-existent there men and women get along. There's a fundamental respect Uh in both directions like you expect and you expect these women to be feminine and they act feminine And they expect men to be masculine and act like men in everyday life just walk around fucking starbucks or something It's amazing. Yeah, and in america. Yeah, that's been really really damaged at this point. I think and it sucks And that's why it's we have all this tension. I think too. Yeah Steve what are your thoughts your children versus The way you love your wife versus the way you love your children as opposed to the way your wife loves you And the way she loves your children Well, um The way I love my children is I always my sons in the chest see that there we go I always but I always always show my daughters that there's only one man that loves you and has daddy so Um, I'm always harder. I I I separate them I mean, I love them all the same. Yes, but My boys don't get the kind of love that I give my daughters because I I nurture my daughters more And I make sure my boys understand that life is not Sunshine and rainbows and they've got to be stronger and tougher Yes, my girl's got to be stronger and tougher But they've got to know what a man is and they're lucky enough to see one every day So I'm not worried about them in relationships and all the other stuff But the thing about all my kids is at the end of the day is they don't want to disappoint mom and dad That's the most important thing their their world is crushed when we're disappointed in them And that's that that's our greatest power that we have over them Is that we don't have to tell them twice to do things? But we rarely are disappointed but when we are disappointed it crushes them because How much they look how much they care about us and what we think about them number one But as far as my woman When it comes to that and that's what I always tell guys it's It's the little things a lot of people don't know about the the little things it's it's uh You've got to listen with your eyes and listen with your ears and you've got to know Little things that your woman likes I mean how many men when you're driving in a car with your woman just kiss her hand just to kiss her hand You know just because you know my woman can't She can't walk through the door bend over take a shower without me jumping in the shower We pillow water fight We tickle There was one time she painted my nails pink and when I was sleeping It made me go to war market. You know, I was walking around in flip-flops. I mean she's I mean she jokes I mean that was a joke. It wasn't I wasn't doing it. I mean, that's how we are with each other I mean we play games with each other and stuff like that, but um, but I can say a purple pill I mean, how do you get along with the woman like that? This is ridiculous How do I get along with purple pill sham? Right But as I'm saying, well, how do I get along because I'm the rock of the house. I'm a Williams All I can say to that a one is I'm a Williams at the end of the day and everything falls under the umbrella Of my standard. I mean again, like say if you don't want a wife You don't have to have one if you don't want kids, you don't have to have one But if you do is why it's important to know what you want out of the gate What you expect in these relationships because that's why they always fail, but I don't want to run or get on the soapbox But I'm just saying at the end of the day is that I I I've always I have no women well well enough to read with my eyes No facial expressions Knowing not knowing how she feels without her having to tell me how she feels I know when she's having a good day. I know when she's having a bad day No, she's happy or she wants to talk those are things that you have to recognize in women But I don't want to go in it. But yeah, but yes I guess that's people purple people Gentlemen gentlemen, I got to leave I got a date with my daughter. So uh speaking of talking about being a parent So guys, it's been a great conversation and I'll talk to you guys soon. All right. Thanks for stopping in man Yeah, you bet. Take care. Thanks, man Uh, Ken Curry of the solid man dot com be sure to check him out Got a comment in the chat here. Then we're going to hit the phone line So unique 79 says men need to be wise on how to use red pill knowledge red pill knowledge wakes you up But if you are not careful, you can get sucked into not loving a woman and becoming bitter towards women I think there's definitely a danger in that but in order to truly love a woman you have to know a woman And knowing women after being blue pill condition all these years Yeah, it does require you to have a level of and see I think that bitterness should be a phase But it shouldn't be static, right? We all I don't know most people at least as far as I'm concerned when I found the red pill There was a period there's two or three months stretch where I was very bitter towards women But when I learned that yes women are responsible and accountable. Yes, they are culpable in their decisions But when you begin to learn who and what women really are and understand that they're doing a lot of the things They do because it's it's their biological imperative You have much less disdain for them So I agree with that you don't want to be bitter towards women But by the same token you don't want to be looking at them through rose colored glasses Because only the men who look at women through rose colored glasses Those are the ones who become super bitter when they find out the truth about women Yeah, don't have and I backed that up 100 man In fact, I would say that like a bitter fate these phases that we go through with you know The red pill rabbit hole and understanding woman the truth, right that we're not supposed to know today I think these things are therapeutic actually I wish chemists are here to kind of talk on that too as a therapist, but Anger is a therapeutic process if it's temporary and not permanent Bitterness is a therapeutic process because you're being disillusioned from bullshit And I think you have a right to be pissed off if you've been lied to And you you know, you're responsible for accepting those lies like eating bad food You swallowed the fucking food, you know the spoon didn't put the food in your mouth. You put the fucking food in your mouth but Yeah, I mean in the west today in america and canada and stuff. We are surrounded by this crap And uh, yeah, there's there's different process. I don't even think too that it's a I mean It should be temporary thing at a time But I also think that a lot of these can be cyclical at least that that's been my experience The bitterness the bitterness phase of the women and angry these these different phases that we go through even positive ones too Uh, this is a cycle of life and being a man and going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole and understanding woman better over time That's my experience, you know, 31 now and after finding the manosphere at 17 and the red pill at 27 you go through phases with stuff and a lot of that will relate to specific Events in your life But some of it's just kind of like I think generalized too as culture keeps moving forward Some of it gets better. Some of it gets more fucked up. You travel you experience the world to become more of a man So a hundred percent that's been my experience and I think that a lot of it's actually therapeutic to the extent you don't get stuck in it in which case you're stuck in You're stuck in dysfunction is what that is. Yeah, you don't want that All right, let's go to our last caller of the day area code 402 you're alive at the red man group. Go ahead Hey guys, can you hear me? Yes, what's your question? awesome Yeah, uh, this is viz. I just wanted to clarify before you guys under your talk I think there was a little bit of misinterpretation of what it was that I said I said there are many men who do not respect recognize respect or Submission I wasn't saying that men do not respect submission. Indeed. There are a lot of men who do However, um, I probably should have said blue pilled or simpish So that was my mistake But I'm speaking from experience not indoctrination I was raised by a lot of really Wonderful masculine men my grandfather was polish You know my dad was a southern man I was taught a lot of these values that you guys are talking about But then when you go into the real world, yeah, we are inundated with a bunch of indoctrinated people Men and women who are who have been mentally dignified Yeah It's very heartbreaking It it's literally it breaks my heart. It breaks up families too. We could have wonderful Yeah, we could have wonderful relationships with one another if we were actually raised to recognize What respect looks like What submission looks like and how to interact with each other on that level and it's it's Painful to not have men In my everyday life that I can encounter just you know walking down the street who Intrinsically and innately know this because they were raised in it. That's all I wanted to say guys. This is great. Bravo. It's just awesome Well, thanks for clarifying. Uh, oh, that's vivian the one that uh, yeah, yeah on the aren't cool That's what I was expecting too with the question that she left out some context like that and out of datum And it you know tanner guzzy calls the rest of america outside of where he lives like the ruins culturally And that's what she's talking about it goes both ways men because women are all you know Fucked up and feminist and single mothers and all this crap Dude is the same way in reverse for them a lot of these dudes, even if they're not, you know, viscy male You know aggressive or retarded feminist or male feminists like it is those are just the extreme ones, right? Like whatever five percent of the population or some sure sure a lot of dudes are just you know Simpen with blue pill bullshit and they don't know any better They don't fucking know and then the minute they hear something different, you know They're conditioned and brainwashed to reject it and get aggressive with you or not even aggressive But they uh, they want to viciously reject it and they'll attack you and you know You'll be socially ostracized talking about red bull crap in public I mean what I've done in my life. I'm very public with my views on my own facebook Oh, you know it there's over a thousand women on there and then I get you know A lot of them have been banned. I've had to block them or ban them Sometimes they block me and shit. They get so aggravated by what I write They can't even they have to unfriend me and shit it drives them fucking nuts Just dropping these videos and shit. They just go bananas. I'm like, yeah. Well get the fuck out of here Just get out of here man that the I'm not trying to hear. I'm not trying to hear anything else, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, take it or leave it get the fuck out of my face so All right guys with that, uh, that's gonna draw. We've actually been uh on the air for uh, almost two hours We're gonna go ahead and uh, and end it right here. Let's go around the panel and uh, get our last thoughts Phil your uh, your final thoughts here Yeah, I just wanted to go ahead and circle back on that bitterness thing, you know When when the guys do find that the red pill or whatever and they start working through their shit and, um They get hung up in that I think a lot of that has to do with what You're absorbing and from the people who you have around you You know, it's okay to be angry as anthony was saying it's a little bit healthy. It's therapeutic or whatever, you know, but Then again, you know, if you don't if you don't move past that anger and that bitterness then How how will you ever enjoy a woman? Yeah, you see what I mean? Yeah And and and if I send something between my my my wife and myself, you know, I just I just do a check in and I'm just like Hey, you know Are am I not meeting something? Am I not meeting the need you're supposed to be meet me? Are you missing something here? What's going on? Yeah, you know Am I not handling something right and if she says no and I say well you are You need to fix that shit correct it dude It's savage this is great. That's I mean that's what you have to do. This is what we call calling your Look at Steve's face. He's like I approve this message You know, and if you do that with your girl, there's no reason to be angry If you just check in and say hey, babe What's up? What what's going on? What's good? Why is this happening because if you can't get to the point to where you have that in a relationship with a woman You're gonna be bitter. You're gonna stay angry And you're they torment bitterness, right? Yeah. Yeah, and you hold yourself accountable because hey, listen Your woman is going to be upset with you. We as men. We're not perfect. Maybe maybe we are falling short So if you're in philps said this perfectly if your woman has an attitude problem, okay All right. Is there something that I'm not doing? I mean, is there a disconnect here? If there's something there she has enough respect for you She will tell you but if there's not well, no, there's not okay Well, then you need to explain to me why you're acting like x y z because there's obviously a problem here And a lot of and a lot of times it's it's right here with her. She'll say, you know, I'm in my own head or I'm worried. I'm not going to meet that expectation that you want And you know, that's when I need to step back and it's a learning process You know, you need to step back and say, whoa, okay. Well, well, you're doing it. You can do anything You know, you got this, you know, and then throw a little encouragement out there You know, does that make me blue pill or whatever? Fuck? I don't care. You know, it doesn't bother me You know, the thing is is I think guys get stuck in that bitterness because of what they're absorbing from everybody around them You know, when everybody starts net hugging then that's what happens You know, I'm just gonna be I'm gonna be real with it, you know, and uh, Yes, great talk Excellent. Steve final thoughts my man No, I mean he nailed everything on the head. I don't know what to say after that I just hey just at the end of the day Stop lining yourselves guys and realize a problem is a meteor the size of jupiter heading towards earth Your woman getting out of line is not a problem But you've got to be more honest with yourself at the end of the day and realize that the anger that you're having Is something that you you know, you're growing from From taking one step to the next. I mean, I saw someone saying Oh, I need to take a pill to do something with a woman But that's a problem a lot of guys you got to release You got to you got to break free for a lot of you guys is going to be an uncomfortable feeling Of seeing the real world for what it's like and it's going to be an upsetting thing But you just got to navigate through it. But it's all I'm going to say on that brother Anthony your final thoughts Not too much dad, man. This has been a great show. I'm really glad I hopped on I almost didn't come on today. I was just like fucking exhausted yesterday But I'm glad I came on really great discussion from everybody including ken who's had to hop off early And uh, fuck. Yeah, this is great I think this is a really important discussion from the manager to have and to keep having We had this in Poland too at the 21 convention. Steve was the host of that one It was the whole red man group on love and we'll get that out eventually published Like, you know, one of the live ones But it reminds me a lot of that episode that we filmed there back in july So yeah, great discussion and glad to be on it. Thanks for hosting Donovan Yeah, absolutely That's going to do it for the 91st edition of the red man group. Um, are we going to have a show next week? Uh, yeah, let's let's do it man. If you're down. Yeah That's the last of the year Or oh, yeah, that's exactly right. All right. Yeah, we'll have our we'll have our uh, our I guess our annual red pill or red man group wrap up. Hopefully we can get most if not all the guys on Uh, at least for a short period of time and uh, we'll see how that goes Let's do it All right, that's gonna do it for this edition of the red man group We will see you guys the same time next week and we're out