 Thank you everyone for coming today and Delta Sigma Pi for putting this on and thank you to our panelists for coming all the way down to Roger Williams to speak to us. I really appreciate it. I think it's going to be a great event. Good evening everyone. Thanks for coming. This is a great turnout. Joe, I hope you can hear me in the back. Usually the mic and I don't get along. So tonight the format is going to be very informal. I have some questions but I also asked each of you to prepare questions. This event is really for you, knowing what's coming down the pike. How many of you are seniors? Okay. So I am expecting lots of questions tonight. How many of you are juniors? Terrific because you're going to need to know the answers to those questions to be better prepared. So I thought the way we would kick it off and for those of you that don't know me, I'm Susan Casey. I'm the Associate Director of the Korea Center. So I see many familiar faces. In the audience tonight is Steve Cantine. Steve is our new Associate Dean of the Korea Center. So if you haven't had a chance to introduce yourself to Steven, you can go ahead and do that at any point. So why don't we get started. I know that we're scheduled to go until 6.30 based on the Q&A. I don't think anyone in this audience is shy so I'm expecting to hear your questions. I thought just as a way to kick off the panel, I'd have each one of the panelists. We're very lucky to have such a great panel tonight and lots of HR knowledge and industry knowledge to boot. So the questions you have I'm sure won't be the first time that our panelists are going to be hearing them. And who better than a panel of HR professionals to answer your questions? You can ask pretty much anything from our non-judgmental free panel without worrying about having a job on the line. So if there are those burning questions that you needed to know the answers to before the interview, now is the time to ask those questions. So Tony, why don't we start with you. I'll have you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and then we'll move straight down the panel. My name is Tony Pivarato. I'm senior partner at a retained executive search practices headquartered and located out of Providence, Rhode Island. I grew up in the great state of Vermont. I just say that because one of the panelists said, man, you're from Vermont, aren't you? I counted the cows and counted the people one day when I was driving back from St. Michael's College and decided it was time for me to leave the state of Vermont. So I spent 20 years and 23 days as a member of the United States Air Force the last 14 years as an Air Force recruiter. Retired at 38. I figured I was done, but my wife told me I had to get a job, a real one. So I started with MSI and have been there for about 17 years and enjoying life in the big city of Providence. Beth? So I'm totally the opposite of Tony. My name is Beth Carter. I grew up in Bronxville, New York. So I grew up a half hour outside of Manhattan, but I am a Bryant University alum. I do have my MBA from Baruch in Manhattan as well. I worked for KPMG and Ernst and Young and their executive search groups many, many years ago. And about 24 plus years ago I started Carter Consultants. So I own an international executive search firm. And then in 2008 I went back and got certified as a professional coach. So I do executive business and career coaching. And I moved to the, and I lived in Fairfield, Connecticut for many years and moved here about three years, less than three years ago to Warren Road Island. And so, and this is actually my second time speaking at Roger Williams. So I'm happy to be here and answer all your questions. My name is Bernhard Erb. Shorten it to Bern because nobody can pronounce the German pronunciation of Bernhard. I'm a Department of Defense kid who's raised all over the world, mostly in Germany. And I, my career path went through Eastchester, New York. So we were talking about Bronxville and Eastchester, which are right next to each other. And started in a company that was a distributor of hardware technology back in the 90s. It was about a $70 million company, helped grow it to a $2 billion company before I left. Now I'm a partner, business owner with Tim Carey, who is, who's spoken here before. And we have a medical device and pharmaceutical inside sales organization. We help medical device and pharmaceutical companies with their goals. We actually sell as their representatives. So Johnson & Johnson is one of our clients when our sales reps call. They don't call from Sagamore, which is our company. They call from Johnson & Johnson. And so it gives us a lot of ability to sell and be successful. Anyway, we hire mostly entry level people. And we started the company about five years ago, six years ago. And we're on a good growth path right now and we're looking to hire people over the next year. And that's it. So at the Korea Center, we spend quite a bit of time talking to students about the value of internships. Internships, co-curricular activities, leadership experience. Tony, could you speak to the value of internships and leadership experience when you look at resumes? When I'm looking at an intern, from an intern standpoint or after they graduate? Maybe after seeking that full-time position. I'm going to key on the internships. I'm going to key on the specific tasks that were accomplished at the interns program. There are many internships that are filing typing. You don't really do a lot of great stuff. But I want to talk to them about specifics. Share with me a typical day in your internship. What were some of the projects that you had to do that were outside of the internship? I'll ask if it's paid or unpaid, traditionally paid internships are really good. And those types of things. I also want to know how many interns were with you during your internship. Why? Where were you within that particular group? Were you a project lead? Did you assist and train other interns? I'm looking for leadership. I'm trying to find foundational leadership skills wherever I can in that venue. Does that answer your question? It answers my question. Thank you. And hopefully it answers your question on why you should be doing internships and multiple internships. I will share that one of our more successful hires was an intern with us. It was the first time we had ever hired this person. She's an absolute rock star. We had never ever ever hired an intern. We sent them out to other retained firms throughout the United States. And this one we kept and she is incredible. So internships do work and you can be hired after an internship. So do a good job. Terrific. So Beth, from your experience, are there certain items that you look for when you're reviewing resumes for entry level positions? Are there certain things that stand out in your mind as you're going through resumes for a particular position? I don't need to say hire a lot of interns. For entry level? Well, even that a little bit. I don't do a lot of that. But one of the things, I mean, Tony touched upon it with the leadership piece. But I'm also looking for diversity. I mean, I like the fact that if your major is one thing, maybe try something in a different area. I mean, it's been told that the millennials are going to be having probably about 30 jobs over your lifetime. Versus I had them like eight. My parents had one or two. So it's nice to be able to experience different things because no matter what you do, if you change industries and stuff, it gives you a whole different network. It gives you a whole different way of looking at things. And you bring that to the table even 20 years later. So I think that if you have opportunities to try something, don't always stick in the same industry or look outside the box a little bit. You say, well, maybe this internship's not exactly right for me, but you can get some of the soft skills like the leadership or project management or be exposed to those projects outside the box. I would take full advantage of it because to be honest with you, you know, when I'm recruiting even executives and I go through their history, it's fascinating to me how they made the moves they made. And a lot of it's got to do with also who they know and what they, you know, instead of what they know. And industries, as we know, some die and some, you know, resurrect. But the idea is if you have a diverse industry base, then you can, I just think you're more marketable down the road. So you have to think today, of course, because you all want your first job, but keep in mind that, you know, you need to think further out as well. One of the items that we spend a lot of time talking about in the career planning seminar or even at the career center in our one-on-one appointments, is really the value of networking and informational interviews. So as students are just starting out, you know, starting their careers, Bern, can you speak to the value of networking and also LinkedIn, possibly? Yeah, so, you know, here's the thing, people use LinkedIn in particular as a way of meeting every single person they can. There's the whole lying group where they've linked into every single person that they possibly can. That's not networking. What that is, is that's linking to every single person you can just because people will accept the link. Networking is actually getting to know people, getting to work with people and developing relationships. We've talked about leadership and about the value of that and the value of being diversified. It's really getting to know people and developing relationships at a long term. Tim and I came from the same company, we went different paths, we came back together and started a company together. So it's really about working those relationships, following people's careers is the point of LinkedIn. It's not necessarily simply, you know, you see the three of us today and say, well, I'm going to go link to each one of them because they came and spoke at the school. That's not the way it works. It's really about what have you done? What's the community that you're involved in and how have you built those relationships? I'd like to open the floor to questions. Is there anyone who wants to start maybe stump the panel with a question? Lindsay. He says he doesn't know anything. So I've had an internship over the summer and it progressed to the fall as well. So I'll be graduating in the spring. So I was just wondering when's a good time to start like asking them if it could like potentially be like full time. Like we talked about it a little bit, but I just don't know like when's a good time and how to ask. Which person on the panel would you like? I'll take it because we have an intern and our intern is Mayday. We have an intern and our intern is somebody that we'd really like to hire. Hopefully he's not here. He already knows that, but I don't want to call him out in front of everybody else. If you're somebody that's doing what you're supposed to do, you're shaking it up as an intern, then I think it's appropriate anytime. Our intern isn't going to be graduating until May and he's already talking pretty earnestly about it with us. So we have an opening at that time. He's likely to get it. I worked with someone from Bryant University. As I said, I do a lot of work at Bryant and he graduated in May and he had an internship kind of similar to you. Worked the summer, worked the fall and he started talking to them about it and what came out was that they weren't going to be able to hire anyone come like the summer. So the thing is if you don't mention it now, one they don't know what your interest level is, but more importantly there might be reasons why they can't. So you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket either. So I mean I would definitely have it. What's the worst that you're going to hear is maybe we can't talk about it now. We'll address it in three months and just mark it on your calendar kind of thing. So I don't think it's necessarily wrong to at least start having the conversation. And I would agree from the first interview when you're interning, ask them is this a potential for full-time employment, assuming ambition and success. And then as you're going through your weeks and months of your internship, meet with whoever your boss is or whoever your supervisor is on a weekly or twice a month to say, listen, how am I progressing as far in your eyes? Are there areas where you feel that I should improve? Are there areas when you're looking at a new employee that I can maybe be better at? Have that open dialogue in communication and don't ever let you... Please, I can't read minds. I have daughters and I still can't read minds. So I'm not going to know if you want to be here unless you tell me that you want to be here and then show me by the work that you do. Stand out into the workplace. I love when interns show up my recruiters. I love it. So that's good stuff. And thank you. That was an excellent question. Do you know Anna? This one? Yeah. Okay. Not so much. What's your advice for people planning to move after graduation? Like how early do you think that you should reach out to employers? Like friends, since I'm thinking of moving in September, I'm graduating in May. So what do you think is appropriate time to express my interest in a position or even maybe for like an informational interview? Where are you thinking of moving to? Nashville. Tennessee? Yeah. That's a lot warmer than Vermont, yes it is. You know, going back to Burns comment about building your network appropriately, I mean my feeling is you plant the seeds. I mean like I knew I was going to move to Rhode Island probably in two to three years. I actually was not going to move for three more years until my daughter graduated from high school and I accelerated it. But I started planting seeds years before and I don't think it can hurt you to, you know, start building that network and finding out who knows who and take advantage of it. I mean one good place to start is the Roger Williams alumni. See who are out there and kind of go from there. Because as I mentioned about this Brian student, he actually ended up in Indianapolis and a fellow classmate of mine lives in Indian so I connected the two of them. So it can't hurt to, you know, start and there might be things about Nashville that you think is what it is and you may find out it's not or maybe they might say hey maybe not Nashville now, look at something else but it certainly is worth, it's a great way to do your research too is just to find out if this really is truly what you want to do and I would certainly visit it if you, are you originally from Nashville? No I just visited and I know it's, I know some people who have moved down there after graduation. Okay so you already started building that network. I do have those connections but they're in a little bit of a different field than I want. Well then I would reach out, start with the Roger Williams alumni and go from there. I'm going to tell you start now. Identify a list of organizations that are in the greater Nashville, Smyrna, Tennessee or within the 50 mile geographics of the center of Nashville. You can use Glassdoor, you can use indeed.com and you can literally set up job agents based upon the zip codes. Have that sent to your email boxes. Follow those companies both on LinkedIn and on Twitter as well. Most companies don't have a Twitter account. Just be careful and please, I know you heard this on Saturday for those that were there on Saturday, clean up your Facebook. Clean up your Twitter account. Put your Facebook profiles to private. Don't be, don't be, don't be, don't be, okay? It's just the way it is. I'm telling you right now, the first, I get a call from somebody. The first thing I do is go on LinkedIn. I don't have a Facebook account. I get in trouble all by myself. I don't need Facebook to help me out, okay? But the fact of the matter is, is that you got to do it because that's what we're going to look and I'm, and I will bounce somebody who had, you know, God it was a great night last night, you know? I mean those types of things. And yes, the university colleges, you need to link in with as many Roger Williams University graduates in that area. As I said, ask them to link in. I am thinking about coming to the Nashville area in September. I wondered if I, you know, could link in with you. May I use you as a resource? I mean, whatever it is, especially if they're working for the companies that you've targeted out there. And just say, as a Roger Williams graduate, you appreciate and understand the value of great education. I'm graduating with Roger Williams. Look, I mean you can create something that's really good, but do your homework, study for the test. One last thing I'll say is, is that if you are going to go to Nashville and meet with some of these people, your greatest investment is a cup of coffee, is paying someone, you know, taking someone out for a cup of coffee. I can't reiterate that enough. And the last question, if it is an informational interview, that you should be asking of them is not, what can you do for me? Because that's all about you. You should turn around and say, you know, I really appreciate the time you've spent with me today. What can I do for you? I mean asking that person, is that makes you memorable? One, and two, you'd be surprised, I've done it, and you'd be surprised what the answers are. And you think, well, I'm only, you know, I'm graduating, I can't, what can I do? But you'd be surprised, and they will appreciate you doing that. So it's invaluable. And I think the important thing on the LinkedIn connection there is exactly what Tony said, which is that you're wanting to meet with them, you're trying to connect with them because you're from Roger Williams, they're from Roger Williams. And you want to actually connect with them when you move down there. The point isn't simply to be connected to them, it's you want to help develop the community that you're going to have down there with other Roger Williams alumni. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Very thank you. Anna Barcelona. I have a question regarding applying for jobs. What do you do in a situation that it says entry level position, but then you need three years of experience? How do you get that experience if you're just coming out of college and all you have are internships on your resume? So if I may start with that one again, because again we hire only entry level positions and we typically are asking for people that are previously graduated. It is zero to three years that we're asking for. And one of the reasons that we don't put in our ads that we're looking for somebody that's just graduating, although we will look at those resumes, is because what we've found is that people coming right out of school don't have any experience of what it's like to actually be in an office place. And so when they find out that sales is hard, they decide they don't like it. When they find out that they, whatever the quirks are of an office place and they've never been there, we find that we don't get the momentum that we need. And what we do is we train people over a two year period so they can have a successful career in the medical field. I can't do that if somebody comes in and leaves within six months. I haven't even started to earn money on them myself, let alone helping them develop at all. So part of the reason that we do that is to weed out people that, for lack of a better term, are flaking. If you have a lot of the things that we've talked about, you can demonstrate leadership. You can demonstrate that you've been involved in the Roger Williams community and other places. Then we're going to take a look at you and if you interview well and you can perform the job of the salesperson, we're going to hire you. Thank you. Can I just add to that? Sorry, I have to be a big mouth. I think you need to define what experience means within the organization. If you have an internship, you're interning a kind and this is your second time around that kind. Product management, brand management? Brand management, sorry. I've got a great memory, it's just short. All of that stuff that you're learning at kind and brand management in the food industry, I would count as relevant experience because you're actually doing that and you need to put that on your resume and be specific about it. Most companies have a position description. They throw it out there looking for X, Y and Z. Make sure your resume is tailored, not lied on but tailored to those specific requirements that the company is looking for. You want to get in there, okay? You're in the dugout now, I need you up to bat and that's how you're going to do it. I will tell you, and Beth and Byrne can agree or disagree, passion and enthusiasm wins out over anything else that you can bring to me technically. I can't teach you to be happy and passionate and enthusiastic but I certainly can teach you to stand out there in the organization, in the community. And to go back to the passion piece so I'm doing an executive level search for president and CEO right now for a not-for-profit and one of the candidates is kind of off the mark to be honest with you compared to some people that have been in the industry for a long time but his energy and his passion and this is just over the phone. He just engages people and he's going to be potentially the president and CEO. You need to have that and he's going to be considered a candidate even though he's a little off the mark but because of the soft skills that's why we're looking at him very closely and there's a good chance he actually will get the job. Hi. So when you have a company in mind that you'd like to set up an informational interview with what is the best way to plan to seed? Is it an email or like who is the best person to get into contact with? Well I guess to start let's go through LinkedIn to see if there's any way you have any kind of connections either they're Roger Williams alum or somehow through your connections that you have it that way. I mean I think that's a good starting point from what's your major or what are you looking to do? I'm a biochemistry major and there's a company in Warwick that is kind of related so I'm looking to go for that. Okay. So I mean I would try to leverage what I eventually have and if you don't then I mean I think it's flattering too for people like if you reached out to someone through LinkedIn and said you know this is what I'm looking at I've seen your profile you know I'd love to spend just five minutes learning more about you. Start small with them you know you're not sitting there saying you know maybe you can't ask them right then and there can I buy you a cup of coffee but at least you're being proactive too and you know the worst they can say to you that I once or twice more but I think that's a good starting point if you have their email then eventually of course you could email them or call them. You know I'm a boomer a very young boomer I mean incredibly young boomer but I'm still a boomer if I ever received a handwritten note from somebody talking about my passion their passion and enthusiasm for the organization asking if there's any opportunity to come in for a couple hours in an afternoon I mean anything like that because you've got coursework but I want to tell you to stand out and be unique and be different from anybody else that wants to work at that organization do your homework, know what you're looking for be able to put that in a handwritten note and get there if the person you saw on LinkedIn is the president and he likes to fish go get a note card that's blank that has a big striped bass on it in a boat or something along those lines if they like to go you can't about the person and then approach them from that perspective it will stand out and it will mean something will it work, who the heck knows but it's better than sitting there wondering we want people with biases for action show me that you have that bias for action and one thing else I can't stress enough is just because they say they're so and so on LinkedIn please phone verify before you do anything because people do not update their LinkedIn profiles so just if you find someone let's say it's the VP of something don't spend the time right in the note or contacting them and then find out that they're not there so get the phone number all you have to do is just ask just to verify they're there because I can't tell you how many times I go looking for people and their LinkedIn's are not updated that's what the website's for I have nothing to add they've done a great job on that one I have a question often times we're looking at job descriptions some of them are very very long when you're sourcing candidates what is the percentage of skills that you're looking for to match that job description is it like an 80% match does it 90% match are you looking 10 110 I mean the old days if you got 8 out of 10 that was a good thing I find that clients today I mean granted we're talking entry level so it might be a little bit different but I can tell you that clients like all of a sudden somebody might speak Spanish and that wasn't on the original job description now we're looking for somebody who speaks Spanish and it just you know and because they keep this in mind too because the economy was so bad a lot of companies still see it as a buyer's market meaning that they think that everybody wants these jobs so you know the reality is that you need to be picked these two so when you're interviewing it should be 50% that you're asking questions and 50% that you're asking questions but you really need to kind of feel it out because there might be things on the job description you don't have but then you need to figure out how to you know I don't want to say overcompensate but say hey I might not speak Spanish but I've done I've been to Spain or I've done this or I've done that so those are the ways to get around it you know a lot of times a lot of times it's about fit it's about being able to see whether the person you come into our offices it's whether to see whether you'll be able to work with the people that we have whether we'll be able to work with you so I'm going to be training you it's an entry level position I'm not expecting somebody that is able to close every deal I'm expecting somebody that's going to come in and be able to demonstrate through the interview process that they work hard that they have some commitment that they're going to stick around and those are the things that we're going to look for those are some ineffable qualities that are not necessarily in the in the job description but you certainly have to be able to speak to the ability to do the things that are in the job description through your experiences and through who you are Does that answer the question? Hi So I have an internship opportunity that could potentially lead to full-time employment after graduation and I was wondering besides the obvious of doing well at the internship what are some things that would stand out or that you would look for before you offered a job to an intern Offer full-time employment? I don't want to read this aloud and certainly I want Beth and Byrne to be able to do it but that comes up all the time it's kind of 10 ways to stand out as an intern or in the workplace first of all stand on solid principles be ethical and have integrity in everything that you say and do don't be afraid to take a stand I may disagree with your stand but I'm going to respect the hell out of you for taking that stand from there put on a cloak of humility there's things you just don't know although I value your opinion and I want to hear it because I believe in engagement and empowerment be humble always know the basic things about politics and current events I have five interns this semester if I see a cell phone during normal business hours well they just know if Tony's coming around and there's a cell phone out don't be texting if you have some extra time let's talk about current events show me that you are much stronger of a human being because you know what's going on in your outside world and not what's on that 3x5 Samsung that's in front of you look the part be on time be early I'm a boomer work to live, live to work I'm there at 7.30 I'm there at 7.30 if it's 7.35 for me I feel like I'm late so be on time and show me and do not let me stand in front of the door at 5 o'clock and have you respite me I don't want to see you at 5 o'clock I want you to be coming to my office to say I finished with my task today do you have anything else for me or do you have any extra project work that I can do to educate both upwards and downwards we talked about that a little bit early keep your commitments if you promise me that you're going to have something to me by Friday it needs to be there by Friday pick up the phone don't text me unless you're late go ahead and text me pick up the phone I like to hear your voice I want to see you, I want to hear you we're boomers, we're exes be comfortable with where you are be happy in whatever role you are and always always finish what you start and I'll turn it over to my esteemed colleagues to my right so he said to dress appropriately I'm going to take it another level when I was working at KPMG in Manhattan one of the women I worked with she said dress for the next job you want so maybe if it's business casual maybe dress a little bit nicer than business casual to show that because you may be called in to go into a meeting that you hadn't anticipated or maybe a client all of a sudden walking through the door and be careful with what especially like if it's business casual women especially because I actually was at Burlington Coat Factory meeting with the head of talent acquisition once and her outfit seemed fine but then when she crossed her arms just think about it things were showing that shouldn't have been showing so just be very very careful you can say that I can't I've seen you know guys too I said you know shirt tails are coming out or whatever so really make sure and I know probably money is tight in terms of clothing but be very careful with that the other thing that I agree with Tony about you know being early you know we'd like to see that you really want to be there and that it's important to be there there was something else you said I think I forgot but be ethical well be ethical but be true to yourself too you know disagree politely you don't know everything and ask questions but definitely take on projects like if you're working with a VP and there's not a lot of work there maybe ask if you can take on a project in another department you know again try to meet as many people and show your value because maybe the department you're interning with can't hire you come the spring but maybe this other department can and also again going back to what I was saying about diversity so the only thing I want to know Tony are you you're a boomer yes very young boomer baby boomer anyway you know the one thing it goes back to the question earlier why we don't look for people that are just that are still in school that when we put put job ads in it's very simple don't be entitled you know to what Tony said you come to work work make sure you show up we've had people I've worked with people in the corporate world and in my company where they come and they expect me to do something for them we're paying you money come do the work work hard and you'll set yourself apart I think one more thing I'll add is confidence needless say we understand that you have a job and you might you know you might be nervous so it kind of goes against what we were saying before but the phrase fake it till you make it I'm only talking about confidence I'm not talking about faking anything else but definitely you know we recognize that you're going to be nervous you might be meeting a client or whatever just because you're in that you know you're maybe going with burn to a meeting or something like that so just try as best as you can to kind of fake it because I think as you build your confidence we're all you know being Roger Williams students that you'll do very well with that very quickly hi I am a senior and I'm looking for a position in a consulting firm and I've spoken with a number of companies Deloitte McKinsey, BCG, all that kind of stuff and all of them have basically told me that because Roger Williams is not one of their target schools about 1% of their from non target schools do you have any recommendations to either become one of that 1% or other places to look for something like that because it's actually been very sort of compressing I would find a consulting firm that's not one of the top consulting firms a you know the reality is is that there are places where it's better it's easier to win the lottery than it is and J&J is one of those companies those accounting firms that you're naming is the same type of thing they want the top tier and they're going to weed out every single person they can that has any flaw that they deem a flaw and it may not be a flaw it may just simply be that they don't view it as view you as their perfect fit the other thing is is that again with the downturn and just the way the consulting firms worked with the consulting side of KPMG and Ernst & Young and they got tired of the bureaucracy it was one thing to be a partner but then when KPMG went public they became bearing point and they all lost their shirts really financially they lost their shirts so a lot of these partners actually went out and started smaller firms so you're still getting the same quality of work but they're just smaller and be honest with you you probably would get a lot more experience millions at some of these other firms so again doing your research if you find two Deloitte partners as an example have gone off and started a company I wouldn't hesitate to approach them would you say that graduate school is more beneficial to your job opportunities because I've heard that it both makes you more valuable but also makes you more specialized so would you say that overall it helps you get jobs or kind of narrows the jobs that you could potentially have I apologize I didn't hear the question would you say that graduate school improves the number of job opportunities you have or decreases them because it makes you more specialized I had this conversation this morning with Julia believe it or not because she is really struggling whether or not she should go on to graduate school upon graduation or go out there you know I'm a huge fan of life experiences so my answer is probably not going to be the right one but my thought is get your butt out there get into the work force make sure this is what the direction that you want to go experience what you can experience because the lessons you learn along the way you keep forever and then if you decide that you want to take your GMAT and get into a master's program or go into whatever it is that you want to go then do it most many companies pay for and have tuition assistance to help you with that not because the last thing you want to do after coming out of Roger Williams is have another X amount of money that you've got to pay back to the Uncle Sam and your student loans so my thought is that although I do enjoy seeing graduate degree programs I probably would be reluctant to bring you on board if you did not have some work experience before you got your master's degree and again I could be dead wrong in what I'm saying to you so please don't make it a 10 commandment or don't tell Anna she's really rough on me sometimes the other thing I'll say on that is I think that you should maybe 18 month check after you've graduated if you decide to go the work experience route is do the temperature check do you like what you're doing and what you want to do and the other reason why I say that is because for myself I was a business communications major at Bryant and then I decided I wanted to go into grad school I was working for KPMG as I said in Manhattan and the beauty of it is because I wasn't too far out one KPMG did pay for it but more importantly I got waved out of five classes because of what I had taken undergrad so if you go too far out I knocked off a year that I didn't have to do for my and I don't know if it's still the same today but I think if you go into the workforce maybe at that 18 month mark you say to yourself do I want to go into grad school do I want to go part time I did it in three and a half years and frankly I didn't have much of a life I worked and I went to school but I'm kind of glad I did it that way other people might say you know what I can afford to or whatever and I can quit so I think 18 months is a good time to start thinking you know kind of evaluating again what do you want to do if you decide to go into the workforce but I agree with Tony I think some work experiences is valuable I'd agree the work experience is more valuable than the MBA I didn't get my MBA until I moved to Pittsburgh and I went through an MBA program so it was they're great programs I was working with 15 people in the US a bunch of people in Brazil that were we're all executives we all have life experience at the time we're all working and so we were able to apply the skills right away and apply some of the problems that we had during work in the program so I think it makes most sense to wait don't get the don't get it especially if you're looking for entry level positions I'll add that a lot of the people that come with the MBAs look like their entire work history ends up being scattered they've looks like they've gone into the MBA immediately after school generally because they don't know what they want to do with their life that's again that's my experience in the years that I've been hiring I don't know I'll let you two speak to whether that's wrong or whether there's something different that you've seen unless it's like an MSW unless it's a social work you need that because your particular degree is that or you're going to law school or I mean it would be for science either biology or environmental science okay where do you want to be forgive me I was about to say what do you want to be when you grow up but I don't mean that way but and if you look at your strategic plan did you do a SWAT yet on you no okay let me just share this everyone know what SWAT is do a SWAT on yourself what are your strengths what are your weaknesses what opportunities are there and your threats okay that may help you identify those core skill sets or core strengths that you have and identify the weaknesses because it's all about emotional intelligence right now at this point but where do you need to be in five years set yourself a strategic plan what's my one year, what's my three year, what's my five year okay and then at the five year point if your goal is to be a doctor or a research scientist or something like that in the sciences field then maybe we're wrong if it's something in the business field then we're probably right so you've got to identify where you need to be and then connect the dots through your SWAT or through whatever to get there and I don't know if you guys want to I'll actually add to that I've had this discussion with my daughter who's about your age and she's she's getting a molecular biology degree and she doesn't know what she wants to do she wants to get the five year degree does she go for a a doctorate you've got to go to the people that you work with right now meaning the professors that you have relationships with talk to them, see what connections they have in the business field in the areas that you're looking at the areas you're considering in the industry that you're in just because they work in a school doesn't mean that they are disconnected from the relationships that they've had and the relationships they've developed over the years they're going to know people, they can help you with formulating that plan I can help you formulate a business plan for business to Tony's point I can't help you with anything in the sciences but having said that I mean some people maybe you want to be a doctor and run your own practice one day and where you understand how to be a doctor but you don't have any business skills I don't think it's bad no matter what your major is to take a business course or two, even if it's after you graduate and you just do a certificate program or just take a couple of classes it doesn't necessarily have to be an MBA but just to have that basic business foundation I think for almost every major it's not necessarily a bad thing because I work with a lot of small business owners and they don't have it they've never taken business 101 and I think that's invaluable to anybody thank you hi so my question is about negotiating salaries what tips would you give recent college grads Tony oh my god alright I'll do the best I can but I'm telling you it's not you've got to trust in your gut here's the dilemma that you're in you want the job but you don't want to leave any money on the table because you've got student loans you've got to pay and you want to have an apartment and boy that new car in that driveway would look really cool okay and you really want a cat too and they're expensive so because you've got to feed them and change the litter pay someone to take change what you want to try to do is find out every salary in a company is by a band or by a range so you want to find out the range of the salary that you're trying to look at what is the range for this position it's between 50 and 70 you don't want to come in at the high end because that doesn't leave you a lot of room to move beyond that because until you moved out of a band or out of a range you're kind of stuck in that little thing but you certainly don't want to come in at the low end you want to try to come in at the middle or upper middle of that like at the 50 percentile or the 75th percentile versus the 90 okay so you got to find out from that perspective good luck I always tell people don't bring up salary on the first interview it's like asking someone to marry you over salad can we wait till dessert before we get married or before we worry about the size of the engagement ring they're going to be more inclined if they love you they're going to be more inclined to give you more versus you sit right down and say okay let's talk about money what do you pay me okay so you've got to work that to your advantage out there in the world I was never good at negotiating salary because I used to feel because I'm Italian I'm really sensitive it's an Italian thing but Italians are sensitive are there any Italians here okay are you sensitive thank you okay so I would always kind of feel guilty in that perspective but you should have a number that you have in mind do the best you can to get there the worst case scenarios you can ask them for two things ask them if they if you are at the high range if they would provide you or an opportunity for a one-time sign on bonus or two ask them if they would do a salary review in six months after you've had a chance to kind of show improve your worth you know from there and see if they're open to that Beth you're probably better this way because you're Beth Carter Carter Consultants I think the other thing to take into consideration is let's say you have two offers let's say you're in that great position you have two offers you have to look at the bigger picture too so maybe let's say one job's offering 50 and the other one's offering 55 okay so of course you'd say well I want the $55,000 job but the $55,000 job comes with an hour commute or like in my case I was commuting to Manhattan so I had to buy a train pass and I have to wear suits every day and I have to work longer hours or I have to do this or I have to do that so I think you have to kind of figure out what the whole package is the $50,000 job too might be that you know in six months time they'll pay you know for an advanced degree as we discussed or you get to travel internationally and you're not going to be able to do that with the other job you know keep in mind it's not what's in it really for you it's what's in it for them I mean one woman I was working with a younger woman she's like well I can bike to work like she thought that was a great thing but think about it she doesn't have to pay for anything and if she can bike to work and she can wear you know not suits you know she is saving money so you have to kind of look at the whole picture you shouldn't just say this is my base this is my bonus and that's it so you have to think about what your expenses are for the job and I don't see any reason just because you're out of school that you can't ask for more money if you think that you're worth 52 and they're paying 50 you know what's the worst that you're going to hear is no I mean I wouldn't ask go from 50 to 100 but you know a couple thousand dollar difference might make sense and I would also ask what is the bonus based on it's not always based on personal performance you know when I interview candidates I say what you know what's your bonus well I can earn up to 20% first of all when is it paid because when is the fiscal year or calendar year depending on what it is but it could be based off company performance division performance team performance and personal performance so you if you think about it if it's the four pieces and it's a 20% bonus you're really only you personally is only 5% so these are the things you need to think about as you you know evaluate if this is the right compensation for you they did a great job I know does that help okay hello I actually have two questions the first one's in a similar vein to hers I am on a track right now where I need to go to grad school so I have a short amount of time where I'm going to be working in between that hopefully another internship I'm wondering if it's appropriate to negotiate pay in an internship for such a short amount of time or if that's kind of stepping outside of a boundary I don't know if it's a short period I think I would just take what they're I mean unless it's ridiculous what's the short period is it like 90 days or is it like 180 days it'd be a couple months like 90 days four months 120 days if that how much out of how much are they offering how far out of the range is it 20% 50% sorry are we talking about 25 cents more an hour and I don't mean that in that horrible way it just came out versus maybe $5 an hour are we looking at substantial amount of money yeah yeah if it's for an internship I would probably see if there's another internship where I would have the discussion with them that if that's really where you want to be and you think you're going to learn maybe you just have to deal with it for a couple of months I'm open to communication if you wanted to come to me and you wanted to sit down make an appointment sit down but I would have the three or four or five reasons specifically where you brought value to show that increased compensation to say look at I don't want the substantial amount can we meet in the middle or try to create a compromise or some sort of middle ground that you guys can both agree to agree on I'm okay with that I mean I don't know what bosses would be that if it's in the state of Rhode Island oh my goodness gracious they reimburse you for half anyway from a company standpoint so I mean I don't know if they're going to be losing anything by keeping you all right and then question number two is second question so I no guy friend of a friend love and I'm kind of stumped as to how to make that connection like a search firm or an architecture firm sorry what? architecture firm oh A&E have you asked your friend to introduce you? well that's the thing he's not my friend he's an alum from Roger Williams and I just know that he exists and that he went here and that he did well in the program and now he works at this place that I like second or third degree connection to him on LinkedIn have you looked at him on LinkedIn? yeah I do who do you know that could help you make that introduction that's in the middle because you're probably a second or third to him or that person so who's in the middle who's a second if you're third degree who's second that you know that you can ask to make an introduction to or if there isn't that person then you can send them a LinkedIn invite and you know the standard line is I'd like to link in with you or whatever it is you can change that and say you know I think very highly of your firm I notice you're Roger William alum again go back to the coffee cup date kind of thing but you can do that in the LinkedIn invite too I'll admit to being a boomer as well if you don't change that I delete it if I know you I don't know you it doesn't matter you send me something that says I want to link into you and that's all you send me it gets deleted it's not even a consideration he's tough does that answer does that help you at all I feel like we I think I feel like I let you down I guess I mean I was thinking more like a personal level stock the crap out of them no is there anyone who has to leave in the next like 5 minutes or 10 minutes that would like to ask a question now I know why he's the star he really takes charge of the room here I have to live up to Anna's expectation they're pretty high that's tough with alumni I mean if you're in the program or not in the program there's the Roger Williams career and alumni network and if you're part of the same group you can send that person a message and believe it or not alumni are usually very receptive so they're excited that you're reaching out but if you're concerned that you don't know this person and you're a little uncomfortable you know check with the faculty faculty do stay in touch with the alumni so it might be a way to kind of break the ice a little bit if you think that would be beneficial or tell me we vote the degree if he doesn't talk to you can I just take that a little bit further again we started with the idea that you need to build a community of people that you can work with build relationships so what you're trying to do with this person is develop a relationship you want to find out about where they work and hopefully they can help you get in there maybe they can't don't ask them to help you get in there find out about it use it as an informational interview you know ask the question whether or not you can help them as was earlier brought up this is about developing relationships relationships that you'll work with for the rest of your life whether they're alumni or they're not whether it's people that are in this room or it's people that have left the building it's about building relationships that's how you're going to develop your career through your life from now so it's while I may present that you know it's tough if you just treat the LinkedIn as a way of helping to develop that relationship people will respect that if you treat it as simply a way of having more names in a Rolodex nobody cares I think one other thing too that we haven't brought up and is you've got to be inquisitive I mean do you know what your like if you all live together do you know what your friends parents do as an example do you know what your neighbors do do you know what all your relatives do I mean I ask this question and you'd be surprised how many people don't know the answers to these questions and you'd be surprised how that these people may be able to help you again going back to the student I mentioned earlier that graduated in May he got a phenomenal job with Black and Decker in Indianapolis because of his neighbor so you know if you keep putting it out there that this is what you're looking for and talking to other people learning what your friends parents do there might be a connection that you just didn't even think about I was working with a woman at University of New Haven she's an opera singer if you can believe it and I was having lunch with another woman totally different and somehow it came out that her brother was an opera singer in Germany and I connected the two but if you don't ask the questions like Thanksgiving's coming up sit down around the table and say this is what I want to do and see if anybody somebody you didn't even think of might be able to help you out so that's another way to look at it once you guys make the hire and let's say it's a long time between you made the hire and then the start date like how much should the student or the employee that's going to be starting how much connection how much like communication should you be having before you start if it's like a long like I know I have a year until I start but communication should be having with HR I think that's up to the company you need to ask that question I make I make those that are not going to start for a while come in at least once a month I've got books I've got tapes I've got things that I can that I can train on I'll have them do sidebars things along those lines but that's left up to the company many times because of security reasons national security whatever I don't know what company it is but you may not be able to so I would check with HR what's an appropriate follow-up or where we how often would you like to hear from me and what is the preferred method voice or email hi I have a question again about negotiating salary but more the process for it so do you thank them and get back to them the next day with a counter offer or how does that work I can take it you can take it why don't you start I'll see what you say you need to make sure when they give you an offer that you do not refuse it so your your next thing to them is thank you very much I appreciate the offer I'm going to carefully consider it and those are the words that you need to use I'm going to carefully consider it and then get into what best said make sure you have identify their benefits what's the benefits going to cost you it's ever so etc typically people like people who make decisions I wouldn't sit on it but you can also ask the question of when would you expect the decision made or when would you like me to have the decision made but I would say no more than 24 hours the only obviously the difference is if it's a Friday at 430 you can't do anything until Monday but I don't think I'd want to sit on it too long Beth I was going to say up to 48 but I do agree that I mean because it puts everybody on edge and the longer you wait I think it starts to build ill will and that's not what you're after so you know 24 hours I think is fair 24 hours and one more question if you're graduating December or if you're graduating in May when's the best time to start applying for jobs if you're graduating December I'd be applying for jobs now I would have started back in April and May I'd start researching as a freshman I mean seriously I mean you can never start too soon so I've applied for a few jobs and I've heard kind of many different ways of drafting cover letters what catches your attention when you screen cover letters like in the applicant process anyone? I'm the wrong person I don't do cover letters the problem is you have to write them but I never read them I do read them but the main reason the main reason I read them is for people that do things obviously again for lack of a better term stupid present yourself well in a cover letter and I ignore it say things that show that you have a lack of understanding what you're applying for say things that don't make sense and then it helps me rule you out so for me a cover letter is simply a purpose of either ignoring essentially ignoring it but I read it to see if there's any flags in it don't do a cover letter unless it specifically asks it's just another sheet of paper that can trip you up and that's what he's looking for I mean if they don't ask for it don't do it we ask for cover letters and you'd be surprised that's the other thing if you see that they ask for a cover letter provide a cover letter the resumes that we get that they don't provide a cover letter even though we ask for it bern do you specifically say please include a cover letter with x y and z n we tell them send the resume to this email address with this in the subject and with a cover letter but you don't tell them what the body of the cover letter should be not at all so this brings up a different point so in your resume we discussed this actually before we came in here the resume that you have a career summary and if you don't seriously consider having one think about it the career summary is really the only part of your resume where your personality can come through because everything else is fact so that's a nice way to kind of showcase like maybe what you like to do or highlight that so the cover letter would be the same thing and you do not want to regurgitate your resume I mean people literally copy and paste into their cover letter so even though I don't read it I don't do novels I mean I do get cover letters occasionally and the cover letter is like this long that's a red flag too because it's kind of like in an interview if you babble after two minutes you know you're starting to raise a red flag that way so kind of going back to what Byrne says it's a way to rule people out not necessarily take you in when I look at resumes I know we're getting a little off track and I apologize when I look at resumes I do what's called what I call the thumb rule because above the thumb must compel me to read below the thumb make me excited about you I want to read great things and that's what Beth is talking about putting your name, you've got all that information but then I want you to introduce me to you I want to know what you are and that's where you get into a summary or profile or whatever the term is but this here is going to make me go here if this doesn't do it for me I ain't going down here it's like the first paragraph of a book if you read the first paragraph and it's not getting your attention you know it's just not going to work so I'm not going to read the rest of it and then with the cover letter Byrne reads them so I guess the first paragraph with the cover letter if it doesn't entice him he's not reading the rest anyways right Byrne but the reason that I read them is specifically to rule people out I'm not reading them because I want to I think you're going to sell me in your cover letter I don't I literally am looking for misspellings poor grammar all kinds of things that are very easy to fix and not to do so it doesn't have to be a long cover letter it just needs to be a cover letter and it needs to show that you have some interest tell me something about my company that you've read on my website I've had people, we're a small company I don't expect you to know anything about me except what you see on my website we're not a name brand so take the time to learn a little bit about the company to Tony's point earlier about customizing one of the places you can customize is a cover letter say something that shows that you have some interest in the company that you're interviewing or you're sending the cover letter to thank you for the question that was wonderful can you just elaborate more on the career summary so for me what I do because I'm a certified professional resident I ask people, it's the first question I ask I say if I was talking to your friends your parents, whatever I say what are three words that describe you and I try to not necessarily get those exact words in but I get what the meaning is behind it so maybe they'll say you're hard working or whatever I might put, diligent, whatever but they're descriptors and then I think back about what else I've done so maybe you've traveled abroad, you know, for a semester or whatever, you want to get that in there yes you'll run it more down further but maybe you've traveled extensively or maybe you have an expertise in something already because of the internships or something like that so it only has to be like four sentences, it doesn't have to be this huge thing and you can, if you go online you can see some other ones but the idea is that you want and downplay or don't even include things you don't like to do I always tease people when I write I said do you like to do report writing they're like no I don't like to do report then I'm like why is it all over your career summary so you can downplay certain things or as I said, eliminate it if it's really not something you're interested in in one of my classes we wrote a resume like drafted one and he said to include interests do you agree with that and if so would you put that in the career summary you think the only way I would do an interest is if let's say you're into biking with a bike company maybe that would be how I would get it in there but in general, remember the resume is only to get you the interview, the interview is to get you the job so it's just really more of an introduction and again you're only getting a six second maybe a 6.25 second read at this point and the other thing to keep in mind is especially if you're implying through Indeed or something like that the person that's reading that resume is probably a year or two older than you at best so again you just want to make sure the other thing that I will stress I can't stress enough is don't use what I call the vanilla fonts make it a little I'm not suggesting that you do these crazy types of things but make it a little bit prettier because if I get a very vanilla looking resume it just doesn't entice me to read much further too so it's the whole package and then of course you want to be the whole package does that make sense? Thank you On the summary we did agree outside, never use the word objective It's not an objective, it's a summary I don't have an issue with interest if you're putting it at the bottom like Beth said but I do want to know what you're interested in because I'm trying to establish common interest so if you like fishing you like hiking in Vermont I want to talk about that So skiing in Vermont you know at Stratton or something like that where I used to work those types of things I wanted so I'll see that but it should be at the bottom of your resume and please, one page you're not executive, one page resume, I'll make it pretty if you got it but just one page And for some reason the big thing now is lots of bullets like the actual bullets I'm not a big fan of that because all I see is a bunch of dots and I just want to take a pen and put it at the top so that's just something else We could probably have a whole seminar on resume writing but it's like LinkedIn profiles you need it 45 minutes on this If you're interested in seeing examples with career summaries the career planning seminar workbook actually has one so if you want me to send you a copy, send me an email I can email you the resume so you could see an example Can we just wait 3 seconds for them to leave Thank you very much for coming it was wonderful to see you all Lincoln with me I'm in Providence, I'm here all night Me too That's right, you're a recruiter so you want everybody to link into you They're fun though I like when they're linking because then I turn around and ask what they learn Someone's paying us, look at this She's got money Lindsay, are you paid? We're getting paid for this? If you ever go on Cape Cod, Osterville Lindsay works at Wimpy's Wimpy's is the best dinner on the Cape I mean for a reasonable price Go to Osterville My cousin lives in Osterville I'll tell her that I was like so excited I still like to sue at Harbor for breakfast but Wimpy's in Osterville is Wow I'm sorry, we just get the mic So my question is about online applications for jobs so they have a form that you fill out and they want you to put your resume into it and put your cover letter so how do you stand out when you're doing that because it takes away all the formatting from your resume and things like that and then also how do you follow up with that since you're not sending your resume to a specific person what's an appropriate way to follow up do you look someone up to follow up things like that and then I would try to go on LinkedIn or whatever and see if maybe I could kind of figure out roughly who that person is so let's say you're going for a finance job and it doesn't say it reports to the controller but that would be kind of a close person or maybe you see a VP of finance on it I would send my resume to that person as well and you can say in your cover letter the first sentence is I read with interest on Indeed.com about such and such position because again the first person who's going to screen it might have just graduated and they've got a job spec and they're literally checking the boxes and you might have something that they don't really see as a value but the hiring manager or someone in that department may see it as a value so I would as I said it can't hurt to have your resume go in twice and the other thing is with online applications you can see when it posts but let's say you don't send it in for three days they might have gotten a million so you got knocked out just because you were three days into it or whatever you know what I'm saying it's like concert tickets they go that quick you're not going to get one right so that's the way I would approach it and unfortunately because I work one of my clients I actually have to put stuff in the ATS I don't particularly like ATS as I get the value of it but yes your formatting and all that unfortunately kind of does get messed up so you do have to be careful with the fonts and stuff you may in that case actually you know an online application I despise ATS and specifically to Leia which is the biggest one out there I will very respectfully disagree a little bit with Beth although the core as I agree with her as a last resort send it in try to find somebody in that company that you can have be your champion and walk it through because most companies provide some sort of gift a gift card savings bond I mean something for what's called an internal referral or internal company referral so if you can get the resume to that person it immediately gets separated from the black hole of resumes that goes into to Leia and then that person can follow up because again it's a big company policies you're still going to have to put that into to Leia or send it through the applicant tracking system the ATS system but at least somebody has had it with the hiring manager was from there I think the only thing that I can share with you in dealing with to Leia and Beth may have more experience with that I don't need to deal with them with Honeywell is that if you it's set up by keywords or small little phrases so when somebody goes in and wants to look at a resume they'll put like three or four keywords in and it's supposed to spit out a list of resumes that match those keywords make sure that the job description that you saw on indeed or wherever you saw that your resume has specifically those keywords that they brought out okay before you send it in but if you can possibly help it stay the heck away until the last moment when you just got to take a leap of faith I don't know and again I apologize I don't necessarily agree with the other side No, no I agree I mean if you have someone that you can get to it's definitely the case but if you don't I was kind of going on the premise that you didn't know anyone then I would go that route and I don't know if Bank of America is still doing this but it dumbfounded me that they were doing it the corporate recruiters would send their job specs over to India and during the night while everyone's sleeping they would be trolling around looking at either through the ATS or even through the internet get these resumes and so when the recruiters walked in the next morning they had a stack of resumes that they could review the problem that they were having when they were doing this was that especially in financial services you have to get your series 7 license and they were getting 7 Mockingbird Lake so there was some problems with that but the point is I know some other companies probably are shipping their requirements overseas so you're not even getting the 22 year old American but you're getting someone overseas so be careful with what Tony's saying I agree with him completely make sure you have those key words that are not the same way like if it's a word that could be hyphenated or not hyphenated make sure that it's exactly the same way because your resume could be floating around India right now and I actually have a second question too really it's like 2 for 1 so once you do send in your resume cover letter whether it is to a person or through one of those systems how soon is too soon to follow up how often should you follow up if they don't get back to you right away I'll set that up on the initial email and I think I just stepped on Beth's toes and I apologize this was about to speak but I will say to this person if it's email I will follow up with you on Friday to see if my resume or unless I hear from you in the interim I will reach out to you via email or I'll reach out to you via phone call on Friday and give them 48 to 72 hours if they don't want you to it's been my experience that they'll come back and say yes I got your resume don't follow up with me on Friday it's a crapshoot it's a but it's goes back to something burn and all of us have said about establishing relationships inside these organizations people that you can have the cup of coffee with that's the best and easiest way to do that because you're fighting you're like a salmon fighting upstream in Alaska not you but I mean that's that's kind of the battle that you have to face you'll get there but man those waterfalls are really high all I'm going to say is don't sound desperate I think he covered the rest yeah don't let them see your sweat with applicant tracking systems if you need help with those types of resumes we have resources for that too so come and visit us at the career center I can help you we can all help you are there any other questions just in the interest of time my name is Tom I'm a sophomore so I'm just kind of beginning the year that you're here congratulations so I'm just beginning the whole like searching for internships and like learning how to interview and do all that stuff so I'm wondering like provided I get an interview is it appropriate and like how often should I ever reference anything that's in my resume or cover letter like is that something that I should bring to an intern an intern that can't talk sorry the interview yes because I don't want to tell them what they already know you know what I mean look at me on this one you answer you're talking about bringing a resume to an intern interview no sorry bringing up content from my resume during an interview so if the question pertains to that you can refer to your resume you know if the person asks you the question you can say as you can see by my resume or you know I mean something along those lines but you've got to answer the questions that they're bringing up and they may they should be bringing up points in your resume during the course of the during the course of the interview am I am I missing the point because you you look like oh my god he's that's where I'm about this whole process right now I'm like doing a whole deer in the headlights thing well I think the other thing too is so you can yes you can certainly say things that are on your resume but the other thing I'll say to you just this is my rule of resume again what I said before 50% you ask questions 50% they ask questions but also try to keep your answers to two minutes and I just coached a woman who's a senior at Bryant and I said to her you know if you answer the question within the two minutes and then you kind of feel like you forgot to say something and that you get asked the next question you can say well look just one more point I want to make on the last question answer it move on and answer the second question but keep it to two minutes so if you're the type that rambles you know practice that's the best advice I can give you and if you're more of a one word two word answer type person practice that way too so you just need to keep practicing that does that make sense yeah absolutely thank you and let me just add and I know this is the first time I had the honor of meeting bern but Beth and I have known each other for a number of years we're here as a resource Lincoln with us send me your resume and say Tony can you take about five minutes and take a look at this and give me some constructive criticism or Tony I would love to come in for an interview and get some interview experience I'll bring you in and I'll interview you as I would anyone else you know it is something that is important to me because I'm paying it forward Donna I want to see a picture on the cover of Time Magazine before I go and leave to my next generation of whatever so if I can we can help at this level we're here we're here as a resource don't be afraid just because we're boomers we're okay and then after you meet with him then really come to meet me because then you'll get the real answers but if you say that I'm a boomer one more time you're making me feel very you know but the beautiful thing is Beth and I are two different but we're also very similar in the sense that we have our different styles and different approaches both of them work for each other because we're both individuals so I would tell you yes just don't say well Tony told me to put that if she says no don't do that don't don't like throw me under the bus just I'm saying just you know I'll have Monica you know something okay hi hi how are you good how are you congratulations you're the last question of the night Lindsay was first at the job interview what kind of questions would you recommend that we ask to set us apart from other candidates well I'm glad you asked that oh can I answer before you start reading no this is not been working on this for days this is a big deal I'm feeling more prepared than I am but something that shows that you actually know about the industry or the company that you're talking to again there's been so many times that people come in that they have no idea what the industry is no idea what we do and this when I was in the corporate world the same thing they didn't know who we were partners with they knew nothing and all of the information is readily available and has been for years so at the very least know something about the business and the industry that you're actually talking about and know that ask things about the that are intelligent about the job so I agree with Bern on that but is this a full-time job you're talking about? one of the things I have like a little model and one of the I call it the score model so s is your skills but c is culture and I don't care how great a job is on paper if the culture doesn't fit for you you're not going to be there very long so I would ask questions what does the typical day look like and one of the more important things is when you walk into wherever you're interviewing really be very you know take a look at what you're looking at Burlington Co. Factory was a client of mine the first time I went there they all worked in cubes and there was clothes everywhere and I am not kidding these were recruiters and they still had clothes all over the place and then a venture capital firm came in and they changed everything and all of a sudden it became like this so it gave me kind of a sense of how they operate and so I ask questions like that you know go on LinkedIn and read I always suggest to read almost every bio I can especially if it's a smaller company just the whole department and ask questions like I noticed through my research that most of the people in this department or this company have been here 20 years what do you contribute that to how do you stay challenged how do you stay motivated or maybe they're new and say well you know what made you decide to join the company what have you faced since then what surprises have you seen so the soft side is you know I definitely agree with Bern on the technical side me like asking those very specific company questions Tony thank you very Beth where's your list I'm just going to touch on a couple of points out of respect for time the more I have this saying God gave us two ears in one mouth that says we should listen twice as much as we speak I typically don't adhere to that rule but I'm going to tell you that you probably need to do that I would talk to that person about themselves how did you get your start why do you like working here where you get them to talk the more you can manipulate your answers because they're going to give off clues body language and things like that that you're going to use as power statements for women think of it as a guy you guys know how to and you make them think it's like their idea which is even better from that perspective so look at this as in a normal relationship terms because really what we're talking about is starting a business relationship as opposed to what you typically do there's a line from that perspective what keeps you up at night I mean those types of questions but be personable with that human being that you're talking to there's two very powerful questions that I have not lost on in fact they're on my LinkedIn profile the first one is if we're sitting here a year from now celebrating what a great year it's been for me in this role what did we accomplish together which is a very powerful question and then the one thing that I will tell you after interviewing as a people over the few years even when I was an Air Force recruiter was you didn't close the interview you did everything you were supposed to do but you didn't close me so the actual thing is now you've had a chance to meet me and review my credentials or review my resume is there anything about my background or anything in my background that would indicate or suggest to you that I was not a fit for this role if you'd like me to repeat it I'm happy to do so but you got to close the interview you did everything else right close me now if I say no everything's perfect then your response is great what's the next step then you can do jumping jacks on the way out and see supercalifragilisticexpialidocious because you made it I told people don't worry about it I know you're supposed to ask for the job and I'm supposed to hit home runs and all that stuff look at it just get on base we'll get you home and don't pop out to the catcher you'll be fine I wrote this in 1905 and I kind of made it more in 2015 but I think it's appropriate for some of the things that you've heard with us today if you think you're beaten you are if you think you dare not you don't if you'd like to win but think you can't it's almost a sense that you won't life's battles don't always go to the stronger or faster person but sooner or later the person who wins is the one that think they can and that's the attitude that you have walk in there and win and you will and I'll see you all at the top thank you very much