 the old clock on a wall so it's three o'clock so let's get the meeting started like to have a pledge allegiance to the flag everybody stand please you want to lead us around the right front of the flag thank you any of the members have any conflicts of interest with any participants here today I guess not we'll move on and for any additions everybody had a chance to look at the minutes from the last meeting any additions or corrections if none I'll accept the motion that we approve the minutes as submitted second all in favor say aye opposed okay our first applicant today is Jack Westfall who was with us last time Jack you want to step up to the docket if you've got anything new for us today I submitted what Pat requested a survey and a plan architectural plan to scale which is what you'd requested and like to thank you for having me back okay Steve do you have anything that you'd like to comment about this thank you so at the last meeting the board had decided to table this item until this meeting until Mr. Westfall had a plan together and a survey that kind of indicated how close the the property the deck was going to be to the property lines the survey indicates that the south side of the deck which is the front of the property facing bluff Avenue is going to be 11 feet from the property line and to the west side which is north 11th Street is 4.8 feet from the property line so we had asked Mr. Westfall some questions in terms of deck design you can see that the deck design is definitely a pretty basic design a couple questions you know that staff had as we looked at this a bit more was all along kind of and you have some pictures in your packets or whatever along kind of as you go east we'll see what we can do keely to correct that and let me know by chance if you can hear this can't hear you all right so I'm gonna continue on and I'll expect that when keely can hear me she'll say so so one of the things that we are taking a look at is there's quite a few front porches up and down bluff as well yes we can hear you so anyways the only question that staff had regarding this matter was you know we're looking at the 11th Street side we're looking at the front side and a lot of the houses in that area have a number of front porches I think the applicant indicated last time that there was some reason that the upstairs tenant couldn't get down or you'll have to explain that again but it just seems like there's an ability to to do a nice and attractive front you know porch like that matches kind of like everyone else's but that's the only common staff would have with regards to this so I can answer any questions from the board or from if you want the applicant to explain anything further yeah lattice work I don't know if that showed up on the perspective drawing I had to go to Menards to do and not all that computer literate in Menards like it would be skirting you're saying yeah I can trust you as far as the plans themselves that you have before you I think there's some information possibly on the back of that page too and I don't think they list any information about it skirting Richard you got any questions but up at the last meeting that staff didn't really want to have just regular two-by-two wood spindles we were hoping for maybe a more decorative type railing that's going on there yeah I see that the two-by-twos are already there in the drawings also show on the drawing yeah well I think a different plan of attack for the railing would be better okay any suggestion I recommended putting you know lap siding on but one of the members didn't like that and you know I shooting in the dark I I can change that readily any ideas or whatever they would like to see I just don't think the two-by-two spindles is is nice looking for a front porch that's all you're gonna see it from 11th you're gonna see it from Bluff Avenue well they they make some very nice plastic decorative type railings that aren't gonna treat out turn gray they make some nice caps that you could put on the top there's all different kinds of options that aren't just wood wood spindles would you be taking care of this as these starts to build us somebody's gonna be inspecting us that would be me now I guess I don't know you know with Steve I guess if if you guys would be comfortable with it that you know he could present something to Steve and myself for approval I'm just throwing something out there but it can't be just two-by-two spindles you gentlemen longer than a month was whether or not it would get painted and the concept of waiting a year to paint it came up and at this point we don't know whether he's gonna paint this or not or intends to paint it but I think we're fine kind of in the same position we were last month is we really don't know what he wants and therefore how do you respond without this long list of this is what we want so here we are again yeah my and my comment would be is you have what they've presented so from that perspective you know when when Pat mentions that when we I mentioned that you know there is a design element that we believe that Mr. Westfall is in meeting as part of this with its present proposal you know it's all just treated lumber whether or not something stained if there's conditions we could always put a condition that he paints or stains or something like that if if the board would choose to elect to approve this you know the other option not saying this is you know what needs to be done is it gets denied and something else is brought in but those are kind of the options you have what Mr. Westfall is presenting to you and and if anything we could always condition painting staining things of that nature if necessary could I have a motion brought forward to either approve it or just approve this application Rob I would make the motion to approve the proposed location of the deck subject to a better facade or look from the street that can be defined and presented to the building inspection department if necessary come back to us but I approve the location of it and the concept of it I would suggest that we do but with the caveat again that it's got to look better than what's proposed is there a second to the motion I'll second it Don you seconded okay thank you could we have a little anybody got discussion yeah if you remind so so maybe what we could do is approve the location like you said and just with the condition that the applicant works with staff regarding the design of the deck and if the staff has any concerns we could bring that back to the board yes there any more discussion and I'll call a question is this to approve it with the subject to the all those in favor of approving the application signify by saying aye opposed all right welcome Keely so Mr. Westfall you received the approval for the location of the deck but then you'll just need to work with Pat and I and a little bit with regards to the design so what we're saying is the deck location got approved but just the plain kind of wood deck we're gonna have to kind of if you have some ideas or concepts in us we can talk to you about that to get that going good yeah I'll just bring in sounds good yeah Pat and I can speak to you on that then okay understood there young man understood yeah I think so thank you next one up the bat is mr. Mrs. Davis you want to put an addition on the garage would you step up the podium please hello I'm Eddie Davis my wife is not here today but we recently purchased a home on here on Avenue and we're looking to make an addition to the garage I think you have drawings in front of you sure so we're looking to expand the garage of the home that we just purchased on here on Avenue currently we have a two car garage you're on a corner there on a corner are you going to go towards the east is that what you're talking about we're going towards the east correct so we've got enough room to do that do you have a survey of the property that you're going to read an awful lot of lines are going to be we do have a survey I don't have it with me today they didn't ask me to bring it but I can certainly provide it I have plans that show we're essentially doubling the size of the garage and the idea behind that is to keep all of our cars vehicles bicycles and everything out of the garage I'm sorry out of the driveway area we're also going to be on a separate permit hopefully applying and getting approved for correcting the driveway right now we have an old driveway that's just full of cracks and it's buckled and so we're looking to just improve the property and the plans show that what we're going to do is not just going to add a wooden addition to it we're going to keep it looking the same it'll be the same type brick it'll be with the same window spacing in the same ridgeline for the roof and we just think it will improve the property and keep things off the street in terms of vehicles we've got some trees that are overgrown that we would like to remove from the driveway area and just make it look a little bit better so you're not really going to tear the garage on yours going to put an addition to it to the roof right so we're gonna pour a slab behind what's existing and then continue that brickline on the north and the south side and then go to the east and then end it there so it'll be essentially doubled the size of what it is now there's some plans on the TV to Steve do you have anything yet a couple comments with this on the like you mentioned the mr. Davis I think one of the key things is going to be just the the survey to see where we're at because I think there's we have a five foot set back to the alley and I'm not sure the existing building is five feet from the alley so that survey is going to be key because we haven't addressed that particular issue okay the other the other item on this is that this total garage square footage is 1500 square feet the maximum size garage typically is a thousand square feet so 1500 square feet is you know quite a bit over almost a 500 square feet larger than what we permit often times a four car garage is 827 square feet and we allow up to a thousand square feet so it's a large building so staff does have concerns based on that of the size the the one thing the applicant is doing is trying to tie in the design with the existing you know from that perspective a design wise it's it's a nice looking structure but we would have to check that setback and we you know and like I said typically the maximum is a thousand square feet so so this is not just an easy one for staff to say hey yeah we should do this the you know hardships I'm not sure what that is in this particular instance but anyways those would be staff's comments so the survey would help tremendously I think right now what we're looking at is the survey shows that the footprint of the garage is smaller than the footprint of the house I know there was a concern about where would the water go from a roof line like that there has to be consideration for that so I can provide the survey right right because one of the things is is if by chance not saying this gonna get approved or denied but if that survey is shows that the building is closer than five feet then this matter would have to come back because we're just taking a look at square footage we don't know we don't have any idea where you know on that lot it's located so if it meets it it would be fine but if it's too close then we'd have to come back in and announce that variance as well okay I know so I can provide the survey that's easy it's already been done I didn't bring it with me today I didn't think I needed it but I know that the garage where it meets the alley there's a retaining wall it's not five feet but I'm not sure where the easement actually is I mean that'll show on the survey yeah I was over there and it looked what about three feet to that wall maybe it's close yeah it is and it's been there so we have the original blueprints from 1921 so that it's it's old yeah it's an attractive so I don't know if it would help to bring those as well but we can certainly provide the survey sounds good but do you have any questions Rob Don Richard comments so we have three cars we're about to my wife's mother's about to move in with us she has a vehicle so it'll be for we've got two motorcycles we've got four bicycles yard stuff snowblower lawn more so what we're looking to do is keep the cars out of the driveway off the street in the garage covered for a very you know number of reasons I mean it looks better there's more space on the road so it will definitely be spaces well used thank you there was one item that the board should be aware of a gentleman at 232 here on Avenue at John Farley this is not the neighbor directly to the east this is two doors down to the east indicated that they're unable to change their schedule to be at the meeting today they had a couple of comments and those are as follows first we have building code and zoning ordinances for a reason they should be enforced and followed unless the situation makes them following them unsafe or impractical ordinances should not be varied simply because property owner wants to deviate as is the present case second although I have not seen the construction or blueprints it's not difficult to envision in addition of 26 by 27 would be a complete eyesore on the property as a side note prior to building our house I reviewed our building plans and blueprints which were a hundred percent compliant with all ordinances with their neighbors across the street next door and received their approval before proceeding with the project third the only way this proposed deviation could even be considered is if the architectural structure and external building materials match the existing house house and garage unmatched roof lines and materials would be an aesthetic disaster in summary I'm against the variance and I hope the zone board enforce the existing ordinance so I can comment on the last one obviously you see the plans before you that do show that the whole that the garage is to be constructed in a similar fashion to the existing building in terms of building look materials and design they are coming here obviously because it's a little bit bigger and that's you know that's the reason why they're here today was to propose that so just wanted to make sure the board was aware of that letter from Mr. Farley so the honors correct my thinking clarify my thinking actually we're looking for a survey on this to see really it's onto the lot lines also yeah I mean what it comes down to we'll need a survey but there's the board whether we make a decision to approve or deny if it's denied it doesn't matter if it's approved then Mr. Davis would submit that survey we would verify what that setback is and if it doesn't meet the five foot then we'd have to come back to the board to have the board consider that variance as well so one of the big items yours were 500 square feet over what's existing and what's allowed 1,000 square feet is allowed and 1,512 is proposed I can't remember was it it's a two car I think right now probably about 600 it's somewhere in that range 2026 yeah I don't have it I think that was about probably about 650 somewhere maybe a little bigger I think your new ones that eight something so let's be close to that 28 by 27 yes whatever that math is yeah and I think we are going eight I think it was like a 800 square foot addition so it must be right around 800 so what we really want to see is the survey as it shows how it's laid out with the house and then going back towards the alley and then of course the setback from easement is gonna be hard to change because the original garage is there right if you have recommendations for I guess the retaining wall that needs to be short up if it needs to be redone because it's probably about as old as the garage sounds good yeah I think I think if something was approved then I would imagine the contractor will work with inspection on that aspect they would have to for sure just a quick question at all I'm there so we just moved from Houston so we just bought the home my wife is from Sheboygan she was born and raised here her mom is here her dad is here so we have got two young kids and so we were looking at as time went by the kids were getting older a better environment for for them for the family so we looked we've been looking for a year and that was the house that we found it had its quirks air condition was one of them it doesn't have it so we're working on that so we're doing a lot of other things to the house but just needing some space for the garage but it was just a move back from my wife she's really happy so welcome weather's better Rob oops how far from the east property line will the new east wall be if I had to I would have to guess because the survey shows that but we've got I would say at least 20 feet from the east property and so there is an existing fence there so there's a fence that is going between our garage now and the house to the east that we would replace of course because it's an older fence and there's no point in keeping that so as the construction will go along those are the improvements that we would make but we're not going all the way to our property line by any stretch we've got I would say a good 20 feet to the east property line when the when the new addition is done there is going to be 20 feet left you're saying I would guess that but I'd have to look at the survey so I'll have to submit the survey to the committee so they can look at it but it's it's not right on top of the fence line or the property line I could comment a little bit on that Pat what do you think we were thinking it was at least probably around 10 it was gonna be close to 10 so 10 somewhere in that area and just so everyone knows along that east property line the minimum setback is three feet so it only has to be three feet along that property line I apologize for that math that don't but there's also an old structure that's like an old playhouse that would be removed so that corner would be kind of cleaned up I mean that's where the fence goes from where the garage is now to that east side then come south to the neighbor's house yes I'll entertain a motion from somebody make a motion to deny at this point any discussion on that I'll call the question a motion to admit and seconded to deny all in favor say aye Richard okay motion is defeated you gotta ask who's so so there is a motion to deny there were two eyes so what is Ed are you for or against it the motion to deny meaning deny I'm for denying Rob I'm against denying okay Don I'm against denying it as well dick and Keeley it was for denial so that's four to two so the motion would pass to deny the request and that would then mean that you could build you could submit something to build up to 1,000 square feet but it was denied to let you build what you're after okay so come back with a survey showing something well survey number one but then plans that show up to a thousand correct okay yep okay thank you okay you got to show us the bigger picture if you show us the picture of what it's gonna look like we're more apt to say yeah but when you don't give us anything to look at there's nothing we can do okay understood thank you thank you the next applicant is Ashley Sanders just up on a podium please okay you want to put a fence up correct well build off an existing fence actually maybe what you could do is just kind of give us a little explanation of what's there now and what you're looking to do and why you're looking to do it okay so we have an existing fence that runs around the like from the side of our garage around the rear perimeter of the house and then it comes straight up along the house we live on a corner lot so then there is a very large portion of the yard that goes off by the sidewalk that is not fenced in and what we're looking to do is build off the back property where the fence was and bring it up to the front corner of the house on that sidewalk area as I understand it you also do not have a survey of any kind I can I can comment on that would it be possible to get the plans on the screen please when you have an opportunity that way it'll be easier for everyone to see there is a plan that was submitted and if you take a look you can see what where they're at on the TVs and so you can see the the garage in the house this is along 28th Street and this is along Michigan if you follow the arrow on the right hand side the yard space you also have pictures that I presented to all of you for that address so if you want to take a look at that you can see the yard as well so they're taking a look at the area along the Michigan Avenue it's a corner lot so that's why we're here again it's corner lot so that's why we're here again and so what they're taking a look at is to have the fence approximately six feet back from that property line take it to the front edge of the house and then run that fence east or north towards Michigan six feet away from the front property line and then all the way west to their rear property line along their neighbor and you can see they have a little bit of a vision triangle because there's a driveway there so they are there a corner lot and they're looking to utilize that space and we've talked about some of the fence designs and things like this and again this is one of the ones that when we as a board have looked at these have either required a shadow box style fence which I believe is what miss Sanders is proposing or other better design fences so I don't know if that explains it for everyone what is I guess what is her plan of what material she's going to be using on that fence okay so we already have the existing fences a six foot solid privacy fence so I know that that isn't allowed what we would plan on doing is using the shadow box that is the similar style to what is already there but that it's more open are you willing to use mine on if that's necessary yes okay what is the recommendation by the city thank you do you have any comments back I'm sorry what could you repeat your question Keely what what is the recommendation from the city I think from a staff perspective it's very similar to others we've looked at in the past and I think as long as we had the design and the vision triangle concerns addressed we would be acceptable and would not object to the proposal even though it goes to the front of the house it goes to the front of the house but does not go any closer than the front you know if they're still all front yard it just goes to the front most part of the house and I believe there is 33 feet from the house to the sidewalk does that make sense I'm just trying to follow the picture so the fence is the fence gonna go so when you're looking at the house from the front it are you gonna look at the front of the house and it's just gonna follow the line of the fence is what I'm wondering or is that going to be back so so what it's gonna do is when you're looking at it from 28th Street and you're staring at the front of the house to the right-hand side is the street yard that we're talking about and it will be either equal or just step back a little bit from that from that it would be the northwest corner of the home so you would see some fence in line along Michigan Avenue yeah I'm sorry along 28th Street that makes does that make sense yeah does anybody else have questions or I'd make a motion looks like you can make a motion okay so in these situations I'm just gonna explain a little bit to the owner that when you're dealing with a major road we are requiring people to put up a vinyl fence so if you're willing to do that I would make a motion that it would be approved based on you using vinyl fence material only okay then I guess my question would be is that for just this addition or are you asking me to replace my entire fence with vinyl the addition is fine okay okay as long as you see it from the front or you see it from the front or the side of your house even the portion of the back of your house if you're seeing it from the road it needs to be vinyl okay so so the the motion is made to approve provided this fence is a vinyl fence design yeah second to a motion there's no second so it doesn't there is no second so the motion failed so if someone else would like to do a motion I would make a motion to approve it as every road presented with the shadow box stipulation as is the code so the other guys we've done when it's on a major road superior geely I can name every single road that we've approved it and their vinyl you indicate that that is a policy and it is not and this is also not a major road but Michigan Avenue is so there's been a so there's been a motion and a second to approve as shadow box so I guess if you want would you like me to go through and call the roll would you like me to call the roll Ed Ed approve Rob approve Don yes and Keely no the motion passes with the condition that it can be a shadow box so thank you thank you next up the bed is Bella Cruz you want to put some cement on that alley in the back there yes I heard Marcelo de la Cruz my wife Esmeralda de la Cruz and yes we're asking for a variance going up to the property line since there is already an addition in the back alley from my neighbor I would like to just put up my concrete slab up to hers since again it's right on the property line I did get a email from her that she is not objecting to this that what I'm planning to do if you would like for me to present it this hers yeah that'd be great anything else yeah I guess you know with regards to this you know the three oftentimes the three feet is kept there from the standpoint of having place to put snow on different things like that we've tried to keep accessory buildings and pavement especially when there's an opportunity to maintain that three-foot setback so staff was objecting to the request because it doesn't appear there's a hardship to maintain it and that there's plenty of area in the yard to pave with maintaining that three-foot setback the gentleman did submit email as he said from Kathy Jung Blues I believe owner of 2326 South 9th Street and they have no objection to allowing a concrete slab to be poured next door to butt up to their existing slab so just so everyone's aware as I understand it the neighborhood of north he's got a slab off to the alley you want to extend to the south all the way from the alley how many feet into your lot of your what taking us I am depends how far I would not like the cars to be too close to the edge of the alley so I was thinking more up to where her shed ends about 20 yeah that is my backyard and 25 feet from the edge of the alley because that is my trailer so my trailer is on an existing slab that's on my property basically just cut it across and for snow removal I don't see that as an issue because I would just throw it on to my yard it won't have to go to the sides as a gentleman had indicated so snow removal is not going to be an issue for me just throw it right in back of my yard I don't have to throw it to the sides I don't know if that was something that was a concern right now you have some friendly neighbor that's plowing out the alley is that correct correct I do not know who that would be I would like to know just for really would want to know yes I would like to know just again just for appreciation and gratitude for that gentleman that cleans or whoever cleans it I again we just moved in in October it was surprising to me that somebody had clear that alley because I did not know who that would be but I would like to know that but again I mean that would be some other you know the the only other comment I would make is if the board considers approving this you know we can't just allow it to just go to that other that other line because I don't know where the property line is so so if if this is approved to the north yes if this gets approved it should be limited to this gentleman's property because I don't have any idea and like the drawing says I don't know where the property line begins so I don't know either there was a some sort of accrued line shown by satellite with green lines I understand that that is not the actual property line I understand that but right that's what I was going by and again if I then I do understand the three feet the three foot rule fine I just don't want an eyesore of like I had put in my previous statements I wouldn't want that eyesore to have a three foot grass strip section that I would have to take care of I think a lot of times that gets put in there too because when people put up fences and things like that in your passenger tries to get out of the door and they can't get out because they're open in the door against the fence that's why that three foot is in there as well so what you're suggesting Steve was that he's three feet from that north lot line I'm suggesting that variance gets denied and he maintains the three foot setback Rob sorry well as I understand it as we look at these drawings your expectation is that your neighbor's concrete goes to the property line but if it doesn't then you're still gonna end up with a sliver of grass because you can't go over hers to her concrete correct go to the con so based on that I think a three foot strip makes more sense unless I would come back with the actual survey of the property line which I did not do because I don't think it was recommended but I could do that I could get a survey and find out exactly where the property line is you know that's something that the gentleman could do I guess it all comes down to whether or not you're gonna prove three foot the setback because if you're get not if you're not gonna approve the variance it may not worth be be the worth the time and energy other than to know where that property line is I mean it's always good to know but just so everyone's aware of that have you got any comments Tom could a different material be used in that three feet section instead of grass typically typically what you're looking at is either some it either has to be a paved surface or landscaping so I guess if you wanted to do say some type of hedge or something to that effect that would be you know allowed any anything that you had in mind or were thinking was a question killing yeah I would make a motion to deny the request I think he messes up his opportunity to put a garage in in the future which I would expect he will want to if he does the concrete as requests that would be another that would be correct I would again I just moved there in October so I already got a citation for parking on my grass so that's the come I need to do this before winter comes along because I need to park my vehicles on a pavement so again I mean it's just gonna yeah I just need that slab and I would like to do it as soon as I can I could have gone just get an approved I mean just a permit and start it but again I would like to see if maybe you guys would give me the chance just to extend it but again it's up to the city whatever they want to and and there's no problem even if this was to get denied there's still no problem in terms of getting a permit you just would need to remain three feet off the property well that's the thing right I mean but again it's my eye story that I got to look at yeah I think you know with a lot of the green space and things like that like I said there's reasons for fences there's reasons for snow there's lots of reasons and so that you have a motion and you know that didn't hear a second was there a second to Rob's motion or done you second it any more discussion on it I'll call a question Ed done I'm in favor to deny tonight that's what the motion yep yep Rob yes to deny done yes to deny and keely yes sorry sorry I was denied okay so the balls in your court if you got a survey and come on back I don't know if a survey is gonna help you well I'm the one that have to live back there so yeah I'm gonna have to at least challenge yeah I mean if you want to submit a survey and come back again you certainly can do that but I don't know that the answer is gonna change but you can get a building permit and build off that you know a slab with that three-foot setback well I will still need to get a survey to know exactly where my three or my three foot again correct so regardless I'm still gonna need a survey correct that's right thank you okay thank you last but not least mr. Reinhold looking to put an addition on to my garage on the north side of my property do you have a survey mr. Reinhold I don't have a survey do we Matt Matt's my builder it's in the packet I think you'll find it in there that'll be brought up shortly so it's on the screen garage at this point is that what you're trying to do come again you want to make it a three car three car garage but it'll go back if you look at some of the photos as well on the north side of the properties where we would add the garage and would go west roof lines would maintain it'd be a little bit setback so you'd have the current garage that's there I think it's 22 by 22 and then it'd be set back just a little bit and then go down the the side of the house from there you have a picture of what it would look like when it's finished I do have some plans here Keeley we don't have anything that's small enough to get into the packets but there are some plans that are going around and I would imagine the gentleman or his contractor could speak to how this is trying to blend in into the house what they're trying to accomplish in terms of design materials things of that so I'm sure they can speak to that but there are there is a set of plans here that does show how it is blending into the home and this is attached okay and what's the address of the property where is it located 4432 idle wild lane which is kind of okay by the dog park South 18th Weeding Creek in that area the one thing I would mention you know you know similar to the last one that we spoke about is you know the maximum size again of our garages are a thousand square feet in this particular case we're looking at 1300 square feet I'm assuming based on the drawing that it says 28 feet and the garage additions 18 18 wide that it's going to be a 10 foot setback they would have to have a minimum of that on that side or no they could get that down to five couldn't they because they have enough on the other side so so from a setback perspective they should be good so it all comes down to once again how it looks and the fact that the maximum square footage is that thousand square feet which is definitely a four car garage here so I don't know sir if you have anything else you guys would like to add with regards I think in the pack you'll see the things I would be putting in there both possibly up to I always have at least two cars possibly three but there's both this trailer everything else you'd normally have in a garage even some things that aren't in there that are you know stored other places but but the main thing is that we want the home to maintain its appearance so it doesn't let's add it on I think if you look at the drawings that you have there at all blends in well and won't be nice or and the things that I've currently stored outside would be inside the garage then at that point yeah keely just so you know from a design perspective it appears that they've done a nice job the only staff isn't totally objecting to this one it just comes down to the thousand square feet they've done a nice job from a design perspective it is a little bit bigger of a lot it is meeting the setbacks so with the addition that you put on how many do you know how many feet you'd have to the north lot lane you got to have a total of 15 feet on a setbacks right you have to have a total of 15 feet so it's 10 5 what is that 20 I think it's 20 yeah 10 10 feet on the garage side and I think it's 20 something feet on the other side we got plenty of side yard setbacks that's correct and make a motion to approve I second it should we call roll call a question anybody else got any comments all in favor say aye pose hi keely you're going along with it yeah it's five months yep it's approved congratulations thank you very much appreciate it motion to adjourn are any other business nope no other business maybe a motion to adjourn we got another meeting coming up right afterwards so if we can move on out so they can get in thank you keely