 What's up guys? We're back with another episode of the after hours podcast. Today we have another special guest. We have another junior moderator at MIC, two-way trader in chat and his first name is Nelly. And hey, so thank you for coming on, first off. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, traditionally we kick this off very similarly to the rest, but you know, how did you get into trading? Kind of walk us through the beginning of your journey and how you kind of found MIC and how you got there. So I got that typical sheep story, right? So I'm an old fart. I'm like 47 years old now, but I found trading because of my wife and CNN. So this was back like 2013. And there was an article that I found of like this big time multi-million dollar trader that took a student that turned $1,500 into a million bucks, right? And I was like, trading is easy, right? So I've always had a passion for like the market, but I, you know, it was more the investment side, you know, anything about day trading until this happened. So, you know, I got into into that room a few months later in, and that was immediately exposed to that jungle. It was chaotic. You don't know who to follow the people who you were trying to learn from, you know, they were just agitated that you're asking questions. So needless to say, I was there for like six months and I bounced. Were you losing money? Oh, absolutely. Because I didn't know what it was doing, right? So I was with this little small account that thought, I only need a couple hundred bucks and a few months down the road, you know, I'll be a billionaire, right? So typical, typical story. So, you know, I got into like Twitter because the person I was quote unquote learning from who was my mentor was really active in Twitter. So I started to see somebody kind of spat back at him. And it was bow modern rock at the time. And there were just going back and forth from these Twitter battles. It was really epic. The first, you know, I'm a very loyal guy. So I'm like, who's this guy talking about my mentor? Who's the jerk off, right? He doesn't. But it was really entertaining. So I'm sitting there reading to the things. And I mean, he had so many great things to release mention. And then, of course, he had the other Twitter handle, the trading fish. And I just dig went into that. So then I really just like lost focus among the mentor, because it just didn't make any sense. Anytime he reached out to them, they felt again, they were just ticked off. You were just lost. So I started following him on Twitter. And then he started posting a couple of pictures of these different chat rooms. And it was just a unique looking chat room. I didn't know who it was. And then eventually, I came across another big trader out there. And I found what room that he was in. So this is like years later, they actually found it. And this is now coming into 2017. Yeah. Now are you finding consistency in that time? Like where you make money? No. So to me, it was more like a hobby. It wasn't like a real thing. I put like, a lot of attention to it. So I was working full time. Did this one I could, you know? So there was really no consistency there. And I really didn't know how to track that, right? So once I found this other room, I only went there because I saw Bao was there. And I saw everybody, I got exposed to some other big traders, and there was a whole different language there. And it was a good room because they were teaching you how to do things the right way. However, it felt like, best way to explain, because I have a sports background, is that I came in with this high school basketball ability, trying to play the NBA level with these guys, with these big tools, bigger accounts, right? So when I look at their watch list and what they're looking for, they're like, fit the things on watch. It was ETS, big caps, small caps, you name it. And there was probably the one thing I could trade. And it was the scaling aspect didn't make sense to me. So I didn't really connect with anybody. It was with that room for like two years. And I left and I really stepped away from trading for a long time. I focused on my job, which was sales. And that's what I did for a good amount of time. And I just stepped away from trading. So it wasn't until late 2019, I decided to get back in because I saw Bao start chirping about MIC. And so I was like, oh my gosh, she's finally going to have a room. And I saw Alex was there as well. I didn't know too much about Tasha at the time. But this is the person I really wanted to learn from. So again, I didn't want to go and head first into this. So I just stayed from afar. So it wasn't until like March timeframe is really where things a lot of my personal sites are coming into play. My job, my previous company was a telemarketing company, big one was merging with another one. So my job was on the fringes of being let go. So I decided to take a leap of faith. And I just went all in and committed to MIC. And I went to a lifetime membership. I put all my money into that and basically just put in the bed of myself. Because I tell you guys, like I'm a man of faith. And I had abilities to try to get back into corporate America. And I had all these different opportunities that popped up. But they kept them closed in the doors over and over and over again. Yeah. And then my wife is like, listen, this has been your passion for so many years. And this is now the key time for you to be able to really take advantage of it. I didn't do it. Not many people's like wives and like, you know, families are that supportive, you know, especially with trading, like most people like we've talked about this in the past, but most people you tell them you're going to get the trading, they're like, you're going to gamble. You're going to lose all this money and you don't know what you're doing. And so it's really like refreshing to hear that your wife was like for it. I think that's cool. And I think that's badass. So yeah, it was it's cool. I mean, it's a blessed to have her. I'm telling right now, best to have her. I hear a lot of horror stories of people like, you know, what you're doing is ridiculous. Like you said, it's gambling. I didn't even hear it from some other podcasts you've done in the past. Some people kind of get on that. I have a very tight circle. You know, I'm very introverted, you know, so I have a very small group of friends. So I've always been mindful who I'm going to keep around with around me who support them and who's not because it's not I'm going to cut you off. And it's some of them have been my brothers. And I don't talk to them about waiting with like that. So yeah, I've been very lucky when it comes to that. And I tell you what, I mean, I come from a military background as well. And this is one of the things I love about MIC is the tab program because I had a tight knit brotherhood with my guys up in the military in the army. Yeah, I will literally lay my life in front of them because I'm not so much I love them. This is the first time since the military that my tab group, which is a Zipper gang, just want to give a shout out to my tab group within MIC Zipper gang, these were such a tight knit group. I talk to them every day. I talk to them more and I spend more time with them than I do with my wife and kids. But this I never felt that brotherhood like I've had with anybody else. So I will do anything for these guys. I will drive all over do whatever it is to help my guys. So it's all because of MIC. That's amazing. Yeah, go ahead, Harry. Oh, no, I was just going to say, you know, I love that love the kind of like that type of brotherhood and kind of, you know, just I guess just like almost like friendship every day because it's like, they're almost like your coworkers every single day that you're kind of getting off talking to and kind of like discussing plans with. I think like as far as kind of like getting into like a bit of like consistency kind of drilling down and some of the stuff like that. What would you say? Like, I don't know, like things that MIC helped you kind of get better for sure. Was it kind of like Alex's watch list? Was it kind of videos, stuff like that? What do you think like was it fantasy orders, you know, price action? What did you kind of do to kind of, you know, get you on the right path? I think for me, and my for me was more about the engagement that the moderators, the mentors have within the community, right? Because typically they most of their services, they do all type of like, they put a lot of energy to bring you into the room, but once you're in the room, they kind of forget about you. And MIC, that's the beginning of the relationship, not the end of it. So kudos to you, Harry, and you, James, and everybody else in MIC how you're constantly interpreting on a chat room, like, hey, I'm opening up, you know, my DMs are open or I'm going to have a trader call. It doesn't matter what time of the day it is, you guys are so engaged. And that's what was different, this different for me from, from any other services, because there's a lot of questions I had, there's a lot of things I didn't know. And sometimes, you know, talking to Bow or Alex can be intimidating because you know what they're at, and you're right here. And you guys are kind of like almost like the middle ground, right? So, and that's what I love. It's like, I can say I, that's what I told you, James, like, you are my favorite trader. And that's why I always, I look at your charts every single day. I told you before, in my journal, I have just charts for you and Alex alone, right? And this is, and I'll tell you what, what I did too, and it was just like, my background for my sales background really had to humble myself because I'm an older gentleman, right? And sometimes you may think, oh, you know, I know everything, I know everything, I don't need to learn anything from some 20 year old punk kid. That's I've experienced in the, that in the past, that you need to be open to people who are smarter than you in the subject. So I really had to humble myself. And it took about a year after joining MIC to really open it up. Because I went through James, I went through your charts, and I went through your Alex's charts, because I'm more of a kinesthetic learner. Yeah, I learned by, okay, cool. I learned by trading or by doing it, just like in Barbershop Barbershop School, like you learn cutting hair by actually doing it, not just by hearing it or seeing it. So I went through all your charts and actually had to do stats. I had to stay in one of your charts to really identify, like, you know, why do you get in the trade? And when did you add? Because I tell you right now, my struggle for a long time was not necessarily how to build a plan, like I was able to pick up stocks, I was able to, you know, do the diligence, I was able to do that. But executing, once the market bell opens, and I call it like an audible, if my plan A doesn't work, what happens if plan B comes out of nowhere? How are you going to change the audible audible right there in a spot? So I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to execute on my plan. So I went through it, and this is where my confidence came in, and how to enter a trade. And then not only that, but how to add to a winner work confidence and just looking at the stats. And I went through each of your trades, and I literally just sound silly, but I pulled up the chart, and I went to the chart, and I was pretending I was clicking the buttons and placing the orders. Because that was the only way I can learn, because I was doing the emotion like that. No, I mean, that's how I learned from Alex, because I got to do the same shit. I remember even before MIC, I would take his charts on Twitter, whatever, and pull it up, and almost put myself in the seat. And I'm like, okay, why did he do this? Like, give me a play by play, and I recorded my screen, and I'd try to watch it real time, and all that. And I think one of the coolest things about trading is you said you have a military background and a financial background, but it doesn't matter what kind of background you've had. We all at some point, long or short, have struggled with the same concepts, like adding to a winner, you know, actually executing the plan when it comes into like, to actually live trading. And I think that's cool. And I think it's cool that you're a part of a group like MIC, where you said you're introverted, but like, you're your own personality in MIC, like you provide so much to the community with fundamentals, all that stuff. And like, it's just cool to see that no matter what your background, you came to a group, and you found like kind of like this home within MIC, and I love to see it. Yeah. And that's the thing is like you, everybody was so inviting, like even like when the little greet bot comes up and says, hey, so-and-so has joined, I didn't know any better at the time, but just that first impression was like, whoa, like this is so different, right? Yep. And then be able to, again, ping anybody I wanted to, and not only would they respond, but they generally come from a good place of the heart to really help. And that even through text, that translates, right? For sure. So that now, that's what really made me to really say I'm in the right place. And it's now up to me to engage everything that MSC has to offer. Unfortunately, so many people who just kind of come into MIC and expect like a simple watch list of follow-alerts and don't really take the benefits of it and then they take off, right? Yeah. It's a very different community here. And this is why I'm committed to it. And I want, like I said, head first into it. That's cool. I guess for you now, because you've been at this now what, almost a little time off like seven years, right? Seems like it, but if you put screen time, it's like feels like two years, really. Yeah, exactly. And wasted time too, because I feel like I wasted so much time. But like for something for you now, like where you're at, what is something that you would tell yourself when you first started out? Like, what would you change about your career when you first started to kind of get you to where you are faster? Yeah, really, and you've mentioned this so many times, and we say it so many times at MSC, keep it simple. You know, have it just a simple approach to when it comes to trading. I can be my own worst enemy and overanalyze things and make up different things in my head that keeps me from making the trade. Prime example was on eyes yesterday, right? So I went to the fundamentals. I saw that they had a pipe around six bucks. And in my thought process, okay, cool, they're just going to freaking create a liquidity, trap a bunch of shorts, Harry's going to love it, you know, just one of them to the top, right? And then eventually we're going to get that little top and then come on the backside. Well, it didn't do what I thought I was going to do. I thought I was going to rip at the open, trap some longs and then have that deaf candle dump. It didn't. It just kind of kind of, you know, dropped there at the open. But Alex had the lines already drawn, and he put that on the watchlist. And knowing the pipe, knowing what the potential, the big picture agenda was there, kept me from taking the trade. And then I see you start hitting those same lines. Alex hit the same lines, Bao hit the same lines. I'm like, I'm a freaking idiot. I'm a freaking idiot. So I reached out to Alex that day, and I told him my situation is like, you're putting too much trust in the violence and not enough in the process. Like it's good to know that like, yeah, it's good to know the violence and what the big picture idea is. But you know, we focus really truly the first hour of the day, primarily like the first 30 minutes is usually the easier setups are at. And I just need to trust the process, trust the lines. Yes, I get it. But honestly, that that eventually did do what I thought, but it was later down in the day. And I got it later on, but there's a much difficult trade than it was at the open. Sure, Harry, how many times do we talk about this? We talk about people who are just so heavy on fundamentals or the fact that the stock needs to like fade all day or whatever. And you always tell me like, you're like, dude, it's line, it's price action and lines at the end of the day. That's all it is. Yeah. And I think for me, like I pretty much stopped reading the entire fundamentals all together because, you know, I mean, it's easy for me to just say, okay, like I'm not going to long any stuff because there's dilution or because whatever. But for me, I just take into account that, okay, I just paint them all with the same brush. I'm like, okay, they all have dilution. They all have 30, they all have whatever. But that doesn't mean that they're not going to use shorts who get in early to trap higher to dilute. And I think that once you kind of understand that type of agenda, then it really becomes a lot more clear or at least it did for me. Right. I love that. Now, no, no, for you, for someone who struggles with like battling themselves like mentally and like getting in trade and like taking the trade, like kind of what you're saying, what is something that you're working on or that you do to kind of combat that, to keep you in the driver's seat? Yeah, to me, it all stems to your learning style, you know, are you a visual, audio or kind of static learner? For me, like I said, I'm more kind of static. So I change everything how I learn into that, that really falls into how I learn as a individual. So keeping writing down, well, you know, keeping the track of all the different charts, every single charts that you post and Alex post, I go through that. I recorded a good chunk of any openers that kind of had a stuff candle at the open, I recorded those, put them into a big follow chat, not share with them, I see yet the tape replay, but I kept it there on YouTube for me. But it shows you every single stuff candles and just replaying and watching the tape over and over and over again. So it's like to me, it's like, it's almost like an athlete like we've always mentioned before going to the gym on those off times that you're not trading, you're still trading in some way or another by training. So learning really how you identify as a adult learner, then double up on that. I know Faye, she's more like a visual learner, so she can read something and get it like that. That's what she's been amazing. I'm the idiot that needs to go through all the mistakes and learn through my state by doing it. And then so that's how I've been progressing. So really identify like what kind of learner or what kind of adult learner you are. And then if you don't know what your niche is and what kind of trader you are, obviously, you know, paper trader, trade extremely small, but trade everything, trade every setup and find to see like what is your niche, where you're comfortable with. I come to find out that I'm very similar to you, James, and how I approach things and how to add things. So that's why every time your videos come out, I love it. I save it and I review it over and over time. That makes me happy, man. It's funny. Like, Harry just told me this this morning that we're on the phone, like pre-market, and he was saying like someone's asking you like about if you had a crystal ball or whatever. And like, I forget what did you, how did you even word it to me? You just, you've seen it a million times. Someone who was like, oh, Harry, like get your crystal ball out, you know, go to work today. But I mean, for me, like, I don't really picture it like that because it's like, if I have been waking up every single day, for like the past four years, I'd say now, like four years, probably every single day, I've literally just woken up and watched everything just from the start to the beginning or from the start to the end, from the start to the end, from the start to the end, like after the third or fourth year, if I'm not picking up that the same things are happening really over and over and over again, then there's probably something wrong with me, in my opinion. Like, you know, like, I literally have spent so much time just watching and watching and watching, even on the weekends, I go over the recordings, I go over the, it's not even like I'm looking for stuff where I'm trying to get better, but like, you know, if you look at, if you look at like Floyd Mayweather, like, like he got good by working hard, but he also spent a lot of time in the gym. And when you see his interviews, like the other people he boxes with call him like a gym rat, like he never leaves the gym, like he's always there. And that's kind of like me with this sort of shit is that like, I'm always here, like I'm always around, you know, I'm always working on something to get better. And it's not even because I really need it, or I'm really like, you know, knock on wood, like, I mean, I could take the next like, probably two months off, and you know, I'd probably still be okay, but I just love it. And I love always kind of working and I'm very, very competitive as to where I'm always going to be in that kind of sort of space. So I mean, for me, I guess like the crystal ball thing, it's like, I don't really think that anything like that, it's just, I've just seen the same stuff happen over and over and over again, that I know that okay, it was like on PRPO that day, where it wasn't breaking over that sixth level. And I was like, All right, boys, like this is not working, this is not working, everyone nails the PRPO short. I'm like, boys, like, this just happens over and over and over again, you just need to keep seeing it over and over and over again. And then you'll kind of see, I believe that you took that trade as well, didn't you? Because there were a lot of people who were just tagging me after that, like, hey, I got that one too, I got that one too, that's sick. There are also a bunch of long traders who are like, bro, you just saved my ass, bro, they were just messaging me like, Hey, are you bro, I would have been stopping out at five too. But I mean, that's just an example of just seeing the same stuff over and over again, and just really just getting better, you know, bro, you're just like preaching. And I got to tell like, I, I'm jealous of you two, like, I don't think you're both are either married or have kids that I know of, right? Jesus, okay, I'm gonna bring up that topic. But, but you know, I, I do, and I have, you know, a lot of commitments. And I wish like, I'm a wife is in the background, but I wish that I was single sometimes. And that's all I would do. I will literally be a hermit and be here all the weekends, every single day and just do that because it takes me twice as longer than anybody else because I have to find that time, either wake up early in the morning, like a 430 to find that study time, because once everybody's up and running, I have to be the data and I have to put the data and take care of that. But no, it's like, I'm to the point, Harry, like, I'm just like, you know, I'm starting to see those patterns over and over again. So I saw it on PRPO. I saw it today on our RELI. I took that short there. So it's like, now I'm starting to see that. It was a funny conversation I had with my tab. It was like, dude, like, we started this maybe seven months ago, where were the idiots selling like covering into that move. And now we're like, anticipating that and taking advantage, but still staying small until it confirms because we don't know if truly it's going to happen. You have that idea. But once it confirms, then you take advantage because you've seen it so many different times. Yeah. And I think also with that, that's a perfect example of today on what happened there and PRPO mirror mirror examples out on what kind of happened there. But it's insane how in like, you know, let's say go back to that seven months ago, go back to that six months ago, where you guys would be covering there, seven, six months ago, stocks wouldn't, or they would get there, but it would be okay to cover there because they would keep running, right? Right. Now we're in this sort of situation, this sort of market cycle where things are trying to break out, but they're just pulling back so much. So I think it's like, you know, you really have to say like, okay, six, seven months ago, yeah, we would have been the idiots covering there, but six, seven months ago, it would have kept fucking running. Now we're in that market condition where it's like, okay, things are kind of trying to pull up, but they're not doing what they did six, seven months ago. So I don't think you're, you know, wrong for covering there or doing whatever six, seven months ago, because things were just so fucking crazy. But now we're at that kind of market cycle, market condition, where things have been rewarding the shorts a little bit more, where people like me have been putting on their preset cells, anticipating those levels to fail and not be able to break and not go higher. But I mean, as things start kind of changing and changing again, I'm going to be like a chameleon. I'm going to adapt. And that's exactly kind of my mentality going forward, you know? No, I mean, that's a great point because I mean, like, I have not seen all those different market cycles. And last year was different with the whole Corona through everything out of whack, right? But I haven't seen that cycle like you and us and everybody else has seen that like, sometimes these setups work now, but doesn't make doesn't necessarily the next cycle, it's going to work the same. So that's something that that's for me, like next level that I'm looking to keep track of that. So next time it turns around, I can spot that earlier versus at the end of that cycle, I'm like, okay, now I'm ready. And then a new cycle comes in, you're like, oh, crap, now what? Yeah, usually by the time you think that you're ready, something around the corner, seriously, the nice thing about the nice thing about the way MIC teaches, I think, is that no matter what market cycle, the lines still work. It's just what happens from there that changes, right? And like, like, Harry is very talented at identifying that early. So like, you know, he doesn't get like, fuck, the long start kind of going underwater, he just put off the gas. And that's it. You know, but at the end of the day, he's still going to the, like today, for example, I forget whatever stock was running. Not enough. Oh, it was Pali. Yeah, Pali. He's like, I had the same line, like the whatever, something 30 cents. And he's like, yep, looking down there for like potential support, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And it's like, that's it, the lines are still going to be there. But just because the market sentiment changes doesn't mean you have to trade, change your actual trading style, it just changes the way that you actually trade during the day, which setups you take. For me, it really affects like my targets. For me, as like a long trader, it's really going to affect my targets. Like if I was a short seller, I'd definitely be taking, I wouldn't necessarily be looking for those outer outer lines. I'd be taking those like kind of like inner lines or even lines a little bit below. If I was a long trader, I'd be definitely looking for either outer lines, and I'd be looking to sell into not necessarily outer lines or inner lines, but I think definitely the inner lines, but I'd be looking to sell at that first resistance. So I'd be looking to sell at that first VWAP test, because in this market, we'll literally touch VWAP and then stuff. It doesn't even give you time to recognize it. So you have to preset, like no matter how much time you spent watching the price action, no matter how much time we're going to print like VWAP like a couple times, then we're just going lower. And so I think that is something that, you know, I've just been really implementing and applying as those presets else. Yeah. I think, I think the best thing about this episode to kind of like wrap up all of these points is that what's cool about you, like watching you grow as a trader, it's now knowing like everyone is different, right? In trading, like everyone has a different learning style, there's a different learning curve. Some people take a year, some people take six months like Faye or a week or whatever the fuck she made her money in. Some people take eight years like Nico, like who was in, he works at SMB, I know where does he work? Seven points, you know? It's just cool to see that everyone is so different and you can't beat yourself up because, oh, I see Alex is banking today and I'm not there yet or I see Harry's banking or James, whatever. And I think that's cool that we're in a community that basically fits to whatever, wherever you are in your journey, wherever you are on the trajectory to become a successful and profitable trader, it's okay wherever you're at, but you're in a good community to kind of guide you the whole way. Right. Yeah. And it's okay. It's okay to be slow learning. Like I, you know, I'm not the quickest learner, you know, like, I feel like I'm just coming into my own as a trader three years in. Yeah. And listen, I'm the same, that's a great point because, you know, unfortunately, I still have a couple of people in my tab group who see the big P&L, see the big everything that's happened in there and they're like, why can't that be me? And it's normal, right. But, you know, for me, it's I pulled away the P&L altogether, even my own P&L, I don't even look at it unrealized. And it's more about the chart. And I tell you like one quick example of how it really changed my mindset. It was, I can't remember the ticker, but this is a couple of months ago. But it was a ticker that it looked like it was bagging all the shorts. And we were all all my tabs are trading this. I started trade chasing the lows instead of waiting for the pops. And I got a little bit too heavy than I should have without confirmation. Thankfully, they came out with a midday offering. And they get I got saved. And I was pissed at myself. You go on a tab, it's like, dude, you're like the biggest sore winner that I've ever heard. Because I was so mad not because, you know, I was so mad more about how I traded when broken trust, like, man, you're green, man. You're like, green is good. That's one of my pet peeves saying green is good. No, because how did I get to that green point that I freaking fight all day, was I down and got chopped up and just worked tooth and nail to get to it, or did it take those easy line to line trade stress fee trades and got my money. So for me, it's more about the trades, not about the PNL. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, I think just to kind of end this because like we are coming up on the 30 minute mark, you know, you post a lot about kind of like, like, I guess like one big thing that you've really contributed is a lot of like kind of like the tape replays. But do you want to maybe share like what you've kind of like learn from it at all, or like how that's kind of helped you at all, or maybe it hasn't helped you that much? Maybe it's kind of hurt you because I've talked to people who say I put too much emphasis on the price action and I ended up not sticking to the fantasy orders and I got screwed. So maybe you can kind of go over how that journey's been as well. Yeah, yeah, please. I've gone through those emotions too, just like anybody else, right. But it's to me is I think you mentioned this before we had a conversation. It's the tape replay or that does we know the tape only plays important key levels, right? One, it's important. So if there's an idea that I have or a trade thesis that I have in a tape tape confirms that that's when I can use it. But if it's in a chop and I see a big, big seller here, a big seller better here, I see them soak in the bed here, but it's in a chop, like who cares? Who really cares? So there's a time and place just like anything else, just a time and place in trading. And there's a time and place when it comes to tape reading. So that's where I really focus on. I record the whole thing, but I go to those exact moments where I saw the tie turn and why did it turn? But anything beyond that before that, I just ignore. Yeah, yeah, perfect. I think that's good to kind of end it on. And yeah, we appreciate that. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Thank you for coming on. I think there's a ton that people can learn from you. And you know, if you ever want to reach out to up, he's two way trader in chat. And yeah, man, thanks for coming on. Well, appreciate it guys. Thank you.