 What's up everybody I'm the hook and I'm the blade and I'm Nick Welcome to the the hook blade to a show about all things assassins creed to I'm your host Lawson and Joining me this week are my two very bestest friends in the whole entire wide world That's your co-host Tim and this week's guest host Nick Nick What's the most important thing that you have to know to be a good quidditch player? I Don't think there is such a thing as a good quidditch player I Mean 90% of the people on my quidditch team Not even at my school Columbia College, Chicago. No not even at your school your school Damn I mean if your school's quidditch team is anything like mine 90% of the people on the team are only on it to meet New people and get drunk Awesome. Yeah a couple notes at the top of the show for you guys We do have to mention that we interacted directly with Darby McDevitt on Twitter this past week And considering this entire show has been a scheme to get specifically his attention I'm very happy about this if you're not on Twitter. Here's the gist We uploaded a clip of our fake joke Darby interview from episode four and we tagged him in it And he said this very real interview with my very good friends first host and other host is very dear to My heart and contains some of the very best examples of my ideas about very many things I very much hope you will enjoy it as I seem to have and We told him that our our goal for the show is to have him on for an interview But then only ask him questions about Assassin's Creed bloodlines and he said and I quote bring it So we're gonna have our people call his people and perhaps you can look forward to that I guess the catch is we'd have to play Assassin's Creed bloodlines Which I am not looking forward to no offense Darby. I'm pretty sure if you do interview Darby You have to make that the last episode. I mean you can't go downhill. You have to end on a high note That's the finale of the show that is the finale of the show. We'll make it happen We'll have we'll have our people talk to his one of our people call his people Moving on from that. Let's jump into our main topic this week The game Assassin's Creed 2 often considered to be one of the very best games in the franchise if not one of the best ever question mark So Nick true or false you recently played Assassin's Creed 2 for the very first time ever in your life This is true. Yes. I can't confirm you would not describe yourself as an Assassin's Creed fan the way that Tim and I are right I mean, I'm a I'm a fan of the games But like I don't know I play him cuz it's fun to like jump off of walls Yeah, kill people what games in Assassin's Creed have you played all the way through? Oh God So I'm gonna get a lot of shit for this. No, it's okay This is I feel like this is something an important context for your thoughts in the atmosphere. Okay, fair enough So I definitely played Odyssey because I got a free copy of Odyssey. Yeah, I played Unity because I got a free copy of unity I played AC to because I got a copy of AC So Yeah, I think back in back in like middle school I definitely remember playing AC 3 right and I played that a lot So I'm pretty sure I played that all the way through and I definitely have distinct memories of playing Playing I think it was brotherhood But I don't think I played all that much of it. So I didn't know that you played unity. Yeah I mean, yeah, yeah, I played unity before I played AC to wow, you're a trash person Hey, man, I play I play games because they're free and they look did you get all the way through unity? I did That's actually really impressive. I fucking hate getting all the way through unity That's the thing is I remember you guys like shitting on it before I started playing it And you were like, yeah, the graphics are bad or not the graphics But like there's graphics are amazing. No, the graphics are the best part No, no, not the graphics the the all the glitches and well, keep in mind Nicholas the reason why I at least I Have such a big problem with unity and I can I think I can speak for loss in two is that we were so excited for it And it was such a disappointment because last year, you know with the Notre Dame fires AC Released it out for free. So I played that so I had like no inclination or anything like you guys did playing So I was like, oh cool. I've been to Paris You know, I like I like the idea of playing in Paris and running around the Eiffel Tower and shit That sounds kind of neat and I don't know. I enjoyed it But the Eiffel Tower wasn't even in that game. It was it was it was in the helix riff Well, yes, correct. That was a disappointment, but that's fine It hadn't been built yet, I guess, right? That's that's correct But we're not here to talk AC you know, we're not that's a great point AC to we'll get there eventually maybe in a few weeks But we are we are here to talk about AC to and the reason we brought you on Nick As I'm sure you know but our audience might not know is because we thought it would be interesting To include in this conversation because you know in our community When we talk about Assassin's Creed 2 it's kind of like the holy Bible of Assassin's Creed Like it's the sacred Jedi texts, you know everyone has played it 40 million times and They like Ezio is is the you know the Jesus Christ figure of the assassin's like it's just It's it's so ubiquitous So that I felt like it was it would be interesting to talk to someone who's like yeah, I played it this year You know what I mean like because you're not gonna think of it in the same way that we will that's fair I should also preface with the fact that I also played AC to partially because it was free But also because I was abroad in Florence this semester and got sent home early because of And I was like oh, I want to I want to go back to Florence Yeah, was the game to the to Florence Okay, so there's actually one I guess we can just dive into content because the the one like really really big gripe that I had with AC to Which I probably wouldn't have had if I hadn't been to Florence is In Florence, you know, there's the there's the big Duomo Santa Maria del Fiore Massive church, you know, you know the one And it was built, you know, like just like probably a century before AC to set but in front of Santa Maria, there's the Baptistry of St. John and it's this big Octagonal church where they held baptisms and that existed since like oh god I don't even know like the correct me if I'm wrong like the 7th century or some shit I will not have any knowledge with which to correct you on this Sure Long long ass time ago And the reason that they built the Duomo where it is is because of the baptistery and Be playing Assassin's Creed 2 and not have the baptistery in front of the Duomo was kind of a big chip for me because it You know, I was kind of wanting to like run around the baptistery and like have an authentic like, you know Running through Florence experience And I did a little bit of research into it and the only thing I could find was like one sentence on Like the AC wiki about the Duomo and it said some shit about how like because of the Duomo and the bell tower And all the details that went into it They like just couldn't add the baptistery or some shit. Wow. I never knew Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how any of that added up But like they just I guess they decided to add the Duomo and the bell tower, which you know, of course makes sense Yeah climbable. I can literally just picture Nick loading it up on his computer and being like, I can't wait to explore the baptistery Yeah Well, Nick is the baptistery in real life something that you could picture climbing in No, okay. Well, so that's that might be okay I could real realistically I could see like if they put the baptistery there They could make some like bullshit like mounts, you know, like some tile falling off or whatever for you to get to the top And there's like a feather, you know It's one feather another feather Yeah, but like who collected all the feathers That's right just me baby. Yeah, I can't be fucked. I went ahead. Thanks. Yeah 100% of the game on this playthrough Which I am I'm proud of because I've never done it before meant I got to do all the truth Glyphs and stuff which I never did before I Got to do all the feathers, which was a pain in the ass like if I saw a feather I would sometimes go a little bit out of my way to get it, but like I'm not spending 20 hours. Yeah, I'm not about to get the auditory cape just to wear it Yeah, thanks. Just just for my mom to go. Oh, thanks. It reminds me of your fucking Brother that was Okay, it's nice that you mentioned that yeah Because one of the strengths of the collectibles in this game compared to AC one is that they actually kind of mean something to the story No, right, right. I I I appreciated that it was like Granted maybe I didn't pay enough attention and unity or whatever, but like there were feathers and I was like, okay Cool, you can just collect the feathers just for funsies Like the cook here the feathers at least had or whatever they're called Yeah, like they at least had like some significance here where like maybe I didn't give a fuck enough about them to collect it But like they were it was there. Yeah, I mean, yeah 100% is a bit of a pain in the ass and the feathers were the worst part for sure because I did exactly what you did We're so like, oh, I see a feather I grab it and so by the end of the game. I had about 40 of the 100 right that's probably about where I was the problem was then if you want to collect the rest of them Your only option is you you like bring up a map of the feathers that you have to cross reference and like set the location on your Game and go I'm gonna go here because it says there's a feather there But then you get there and you don't see a feather and you don't know if the reason you don't see it is because You don't see it, but it is there or because you already grabbed it Which means you can get through the whole map and collect every feather you see and Then find out that you have like three missing and the only way to figure out where those three are is By going back to every location now luckily I figured out that they do show you on the DNA tracker like the feather counts for each district So then I was able to go. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm missing two in this district But then that still meant I had to check every single location again in that district Which was a pain in the ass kind of a pain in the ass definitely, but Nick. Yes, you know We're having these memories back in like 2010 and 2013 trying to play AC to being like wow, this is so good You're playing after having literally played odyssey and unity. You've seen like two very different points on the AC spectrum gameplay can be like and also Different when you started playing AC to were you like oh my god this sucks or were you like no no no not at all cuz like Well, okay, I guess when I started playing AC to it was like wow these graphics are very 2009 you know But aside from that I since I didn't play AC one. I was super confused by the opening sequence I mean like for this podcast like I've got I've got a whole page and like a little bit more of notes And I think the first half of that page. It's just me writing down notes from the opening sequence going what the fuck Well, isn't there like a little last week on Assassin's Creed like before it starts there is there is oh, no I didn't have that you you're you're a cut scene skipper is what happened you skipped all the cuts Yeah, because Desmond's like this is what happened in the last game Nick. Oh Like okay, then I guess I missed it Well, you know, it's it's funny you say that Nick because one of my notes is Complementing the opening scene and how like crazy it is. Yeah, and then oh and then plus like holy Christ I really maybe maybe this is just me. Maybe you guys don't feel the same way, but like us Lucy's fine. I guess Sean and Rebecca I Think they do suck in AC2. I do I think I think Rebecca's fine Sean's Sean's just Rebecca's fine But Rebecca just doesn't have anything to do really Sean's just a total dickhead that says nothing But like hold on one second. I want to answer the spam call. Hello What the fuck dealing with Guys do I press one I would I would get wow that that really undercuts the message. It's like press one, but also if you don't want to hear this anymore Press three That was so bizarre That's the weirdest spam call I've ever heard what happened was about a week ago They were like would you like us to pray with you press one press one and I was like, yes So I press what happens if you press to no Tim Tim Tim your only options are one or three if you press to it You don't want to press you don't press you go in a cardiac arrest You'll need someone to pray for you if you press to sorry, what were we talking about? We were talking about like Sean and yeah, Sean Sean is a dick and he's just like he's one of those I feel like Ubisoft does this a lot where they're like, oh, we need to come up with a personality for this character Let's just make them really mean for no reason and then so yeah, just go over and you're like hey Hey guy, what's up? And he's like if you'll excuse me. I'm doing important work and you can bugger off And it's like okay. Well, that was kind of called for dude Like I don't know why you needed to treat me that way Rebecca's always just like I don't know. She always just seems way too fucking bad. She seems like she's on speed I think you would need to be on speed to build an actual You know speaking of Sean Desmond's literally like suffering from the bleeding effect And is like screaming and is in the middle of the night while I'm sleeping And he wakes up late one morning and Sean is like that's very professional of you Desmond like You don't want to get in the animus you fuck I'm hallucinating because you guys are torturing me mentally on a eight hours a day basis Maybe not also be a dick about it. Please Sean Yeah, Rebecca Rebecca's always like she's very peppy. She's just always ready to go, you know, Rebecca's cool I definitely think all of them get a personality upgrade in Brotherhood for sure. They for sure do. Yeah Yeah, they fucking if they're gonna keep them around they fucking because there's I there's a reason that like our our fan community We're like we love Sean Rebecca and we want to see more of them And like they'll make an appearance every four games or something when you get a writer who like cares what The fans think about their game Yeah, we haven't seen him since syndicate I guess Yeah, yeah, you mean you're telling me you prefer Sean and Rebecca over Laila Hassan Yeah, yeah, you're kidding. Yeah, it's kind of funny though Because because Nick has this perspective of Sean Rebecca is like they suck because all I gave him He's played is where they don't exist the ones the ones that they don't exist and the one where they're introduced And they're really dumb and boring. Yeah, exactly I know I shouldn't be like that someone in the comments are gonna be like actually Sean or Rebecca and ac2 saved my dad's life. I'm gonna be like, okay I'm sorry. I didn't mean there's not there's not enough people that listen to podcasts that you're gonna get that No, we just get them in the dm. So you can't see him. Yeah, okay. That's fair All of our our hundreds of fans the only dm us they don't comment on things Don't forget the fans that you know our fake porn bots looking for like Oh, yeah, those are fun as Nick does I have notes. I took as well. I don't know if you took notes last time I've got notes. I've got seven notes. I just don't know in what order you want to like like go about the notes I think you know what I've got another note that I would like to address We can start with me Give us the note. Um, I don't know This wasn't anything that I like hated throughout the game. I just kind of Find it fucking goofy that all of the dialogue is in english But then you'll get things along the lines of I wrote one down that was like On the count of three uno du wei tre and then you like start a race Yeah, or like what's wrong with that? I don't know. There was well Oh, there was like this career mission where like we're like I'm supposed to deliver this letter to this guy in the tusking country side And like I get there and he's only speaking Italian and then he just starts fucking fighting me I'm like, why am I fighting this guy? Did you have subtitles on? Yeah, you need to have subtitles on well? Okay, I guess but yeah, because I don't know if you notice, but if you turn on subtitles It gives you the english translation of the italian Yeah, that's kind of the rule of thumb for this game is you got to turn them on immediately Because because every other word in their sentences is like some italian every time they curse it's an italian No, I know which like okay the cursing in italian. That's fine. But like Katsu But like every now and again like they just like had this random ass like italian sentence just kind of like Boarded in no, that's true. I don't know it It just kind of felt it kind of felt goofy to me. Well, here's I have a question for you Nick what was your overall impression of the story of ac2? The story was really really good. Okay. I I Cannot say I have any complaints about the story interesting. No. Yeah, it's I Like that shit a lot. I really like the idea of being able to have Leonardo da Vinci just as like a side character that Um still helps you along and whatever especially since so much of ac2 is rooted in the importance of The renaissance and you know all that jazz I felt like having Him in there was really cool. And like I said, you know, they had nicky nicole macchiavelli in there for like a short period the mette cheese were a really big part of it in um When you were in for and so I I really really liked being able to incorporate all the big characters into the storyline as well For sure. I mean, it's it's also interesting too because ac2 kind of set that precedent for having like a fun historical cast Yeah, no. Yeah, and like in the whole idea of like, you know, you're Trying to get revenge on whoever these people are. You don't know anything about this order But like, oh, I don't know my dad was one of these guys and he died and he wanted me to learn about it My uncle's telling me about it. So like I might as well do this If this is what my dad wanted me to do anyways, and it'll help me like, you know, avenge his murderers Um, and then you know going to go into montereggiori Or however the how it's montereggione. Montereggione. Montereggione. Montereggione. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, whatever that shit is Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you're not always going to venice. Oh crazy. I'm also going to venice And you know, I kicking it in venice a little bit killing some hoes there I I really loved the the the story Especially the first time I played it like it's always been kind of in in my like top Two like kind of struggling against black flag And I always kind of go back and forth between them trying to figure out like which one I think is the The better story or which one that I enjoy the most And I definitely think that ac2 is the best story when it comes to The focus on the assassins and the way that the assassins are are incorporated ac2 nailed What for me is the ideal vision of What role the assassins should play in the story? I love the scene where he Starts to realize that all of these associates and friends that he's been working with over the course of the game Are are all assassins and that they've all been kind of guiding him through this process And then yeah, that was because it's one thing to have like oh my family were assassins So now I'm an assassin too It's another thing that like oh these people that I'm friends with and these people who have helped me and who have like Supported me in this revenge quest They're all assassins and they're all following this creed and maybe I should take it seriously And something else that I like along those lines that I really appreciated was like the very first Time you play as etio You're gonna have to remind me of the name. I can't remember the kid But like you go and you fight this like veery looks like yeah Yeah, veery you go and fight the veery and like you think he's just this like You know punk-ass kid of like, oh, you know rival family or whatever and then like you go fuck your girlfriend afterwards It's like yeah, okay, you know cool teenager stuff whatever And then you find out that oh wait, he's a rival because you know His dad's part of the well, but that's well, but that well Well, yes, that is true But etio and veery like etio doesn't know that veery is a templar But veery definitely knows that etio is an assassin. So that plays a role. No, but that's exact That's exactly what i'm saying is that etio doesn't know that until right? He starts learning all this and then once he does as a viewer it was like, oh, shit This is like yeah, that's like, you know You would have beef with this dude if he knew if you know Vieira knew that he was an assassin, but even if etio didn't know he was a templar, right? It's an interesting coincidence. Yeah, honestly the whole introduction the whole like first couple sequences of the game Like there was just something the first time I played it When you you hand the the note to uberto and he's like, uh, this is just a problem I'll I'll you know, I'll see to everything will be fixed in the morning Like I had this this dread in that moment where I was like Oh, I know that I know that this isn't going to turn out the way that I uh that I think it will But like I was almost lying to myself like I was almost like oh, I kind of Like me no This they're not just gonna kill his family and like, I don't know I I was dreading it and when it happened And I couldn't stop it and uberto had betrayed me and betrayed my family like Like it's not enough and I think that all of these other assassins creed games unity is a great example of doing it wrong Where they think that they can That they can earn an emotional reaction and they can earn an empathy out of you just by like hey See this guy's dad. They're dead now like There's no there's no like moment of like actually getting to know these people Or actually getting to build an emotional connection to them yourself I mean arno loses two dads in unity and I couldn't care less about either one of them, right? But because they gave you that sequence to like Help your sister and help your little brother with his feathers and You know run to the top of the church with your older brother and talk to your dad who's being a friendly good dad Like I cared about those people and I remembered their names after playing the game Which I I could maybe summon the names of arno's dads right now But it would be more effort than I'm willing to expend But like another thing I really liked about that too was that not only did they Give you that emotional connection to make you you know feel bad for um for etzio But it was also a really really good way of saying Oh, yeah, hey, you know, this is how you climb and this is how you're gonna street race and like this is It was all well integrated sister and for your mother and it's it's a very good way of doing the introduction without just like Oh, yeah, you know just like press a to jump Yeah, it's it's certainly better than ac ones. It's very classic storytelling like It's not reinventing the wheel, but it is nailing the execution. It's doing a really good job Like yeah just roping you in and giving you those those feelings And I spent the entire game like wanting to get revenge on the people who had to do with with that You know it was it did its job I think that continued to me even into that sequence where you first go to the villa um And your uncle's telling you about shit and your uncle's like oh your dad didn't tell you anything And it's like you have to learn from your uncle and so then he trains you how to fight And then you realize oh well, there's this villa that my family's had for fucking forever We might as well hide out here so we don't die in florans And so it and for me one of my favorite parts of the game was Being able to go around and get the treasure chests and get the paintings and all that to increase money for the villa because it was like Oh, you know like this is this is I own this. Yeah, it's a thing. It's inherited. Yeah Yeah, exactly and like I was just gonna say like the more paintings and the more armor and everything you got The better ended up helping you exactly and I think the way it was a really good integration Their rationale was if you do these things and get more things It gives you more money in the long run, but not just because oh, you know magically it does It was like oh, yeah, you do these things they go to the villa it increases tourism, which will naturally Uh give you more money and then you have more money to buy more stuff to help your health along the way and shit like that And I thought that was a really really good integration Even collecting the feathers increases the the the value exactly. Yeah, so everything is integrated in that system And which does that make sense? Huh? Does that make sense though? That I found a feather and my villa started making more money. I mean does it make sense? No But but I'm just being a dick. I know but it will yeah, you're right I mean it also doesn't make sense that why would buying a sword and or a painting for your villa, but But no, I do really enjoy the villa Don't get me wrong but something that is worth mentioning too is the impact of training with mario and whatnot is um You see a two-year time jump, you know Etio is like a little bit more mature and yeah learned a lot from his uncle And so it it it makes a little bit more sense that he's not this master, you know Uh combatant over a month, you know, it's been two years So or it didn't just start out being a master combatant with no training like many of the protagonists do I I love the way that the game handles time even though it technically doesn't do a great job like like I think as far as a storytelling device the time jumps are really effective and you do get this feeling that like You're witnessing a story over this long period of time. You're witnessing, you know growth Obviously like yeah, they don't age up the characters at all other than like I mean roger craigsmith is doing a lot of legwork with his voice for etio and he does a great job but I mean This carries on like they start brotherhood and he's just got a beard and that's the only difference and he's supposed to be 40 years old like Working with the limitations of what they had at the time. I get it. I've wanted to see like ever since then an assassin's creed game that like actually Does the same thing where it's like, well, let's tell an epic story. Let's have this, you know Last over 10 years 15 years whatever but also do the legwork to like have the Protagonists and have the city change over that time would be super cool Um, I understand why they don't because it's a pain in the ass But I still think that they are missing the opportunity of telling those kinds of interesting stories that way Yeah, for sure. I mean that's the thing is I mean you and I mentioned this on on the On one of the more recent episodes. It's just like it's so effective to Have a story take place over even just a decade You know this one takes over two decades and and that's what a lot of people like etio so much Is because we see him grow and we see him grow with his family and the people that he fights with You know and something something to something to say also about Like his family and the the impact of a lot of this stuff I think has a lot to do with how ac2 embraces Actual cut scenes that have direction. Yeah, like the like being able to see etio Like like there's that opening scene with its with its games of new york inspiration You know, it's like like we know that we're going to get ready for like a different experience just by Starting the game and just to go out back to like the modern day stuff Like the game opens with like an action packed set piece with cut scenes that are actually directed and coming off of ac1 I really experienced this is like Like so like liberating because in ac1 you can just pick different camera angles There's not a single cut scene in the game and like I thought like that cut scene where it shows Um The medici's, you know being assassinated or they attempted to be assassinated outside of duomo I mean It's it's just so well done because it's like you think that you know He's probably not going to die because he's so important But like they also killed your dad so he might die and it's not until like, you know You have to fight these guys off and you help him back to his little villa or whatever that that you know You realize he's going to live and it's fine But it's just it's very well done and well executed And I think without that cut scene if you just like seen them like running up and then immediately like You can sprint up there and start attacking people and you know or whatever just it wouldn't have been as effective Yeah, well, yeah, well because you feel helpless exactly. Yeah, like oh shit Like I want to dive in and like, you know jump on the attackers, but I can't well It's also interesting too because in that scene they also introduced the enemy type that knocks your sword out of your hand So it's like right. Wow. I'm even more defenseless than I was just before No, for sure So I feel like for everything that we like about the story. I definitely like Coming back to the game now all these years later There were things that I did notice about the story that bothered me. Yes, and you had a similar experience Maybe nick you can kind of hear what we're saying and tell us if we're being overly critical or if we're on the money You guys may or may not remember I did a video on youtube three years ago about assassins creed origins And I make a particular complaint about the fact that I feel like something stories do a lot when they're a little when they're being a little bit lazy about Theme and about character arcs is if you're doing a story about a revenge quest To have your character at the very end go. I'm above this. I don't need to get revenge when Typically when that happens it's something that kind of comes out of nowhere There won't have been much about the story beforehand expressing any You know internal conflict about the idea of revenge You know, that's not true for all things that do that arc some do it really well But it does seem to be the case that like If you were to not do that and you were to just have the character get revenge and do exactly what they were Intending to do from the beginning you might look at that as a writer and be like, okay Well, there's not much of a character change. There's not like a moment or a turn That would make this ending feel more significant So they'll kind of sprinkle it in there and be like, okay. Well, you know, I'm not strong enough to I don't I don't I don't want to get this revenge after all I'm above this And while that's something that didn't bother me before it did ring especially cheap to me playing ac2 this time Just because I felt like yes, you know Yeah, you are literally killing multiple guards on the way into the church to kill rodrigo And there's also the whole element of even besides whether or not you're above revenge or you're above killing people The fact of his existence and continued breathing is going to be a problem for the world He is a powerful Templar your job as an assassin is to kill Templars You've been doing it the whole time. You never had a problem with it. So why are we letting him live now? Obviously, we know they're letting him live because he did not canonically in the real world die in that year We get that and that's fine But I think there are a number of ways they could have kept him alive Without having to make etsy would be like I am above these in the last minute for no reason Yeah, I mean just have him escape Rodrigo used some piece of Eden magic to Dip out of there Like oh, there is the third piece of it and I didn't know about and he used it to escape Anything like if anything though, but like they they could have gotten the vault open They're tussling and then Rodrigo starts to escape and etio starts to hear a voice coming through the vault and he's drawn It could have been like the vault will only open for the true prophet So why don't we find out which one of us it is and then go from there like I don't know There are a lot of interesting ways that could have done it They did it in one of the least interesting ways they possibly could have well, you know It's also not really compelling about it is because just before he's like I am above this He tries to kill him twice Like in five to ten minute intervals he tries to kill him once and he's like I thought I was beyond this And he's not and he tries to stab him and then he tries to do it again And then he's like I don't feel like it anymore. Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty weak. It's weak and it's like It's such a bad way to like cap off this Otherwise pretty great story, right? Like it's such a lame way to do it. It'd be one thing Yeah, that's fair if throughout the game every time he kills one of his targets He feels bad about it and he's like I wish I did not have to do all of this killing You know That'd be great But wait, but but especially when there's like entire Fucking plots where you just go around killing guards just because like there's there's like a there's one like robber guy connected with some Chick that you just kind of met and she says yeah, go free this dude and you go. Yeah, sure. Fuck it. Okay Who do I need to kill to do it? You don't even know that they're connected to the assassins. You just kind of fucking go It's also pretty fucking stupid too that he's the fucking pope and he knows that you He knows that you're a bad person like a bad guy to him and he wants to murder your entire family He would have murdered you if he had the chance. Yeah, why are you letting him live? Even if you are above this Why would you let such a powerful person? Live like just to come back and fuck your shit up, especially it's so stupid Especially considering a court is on can be like that guy call me a bitch and you'll just run over and stab him in the throat Dude, you can literally stab the messengers that steal your money You literally there's a guard in one of the two missions and he's like One wrong move and I won't be coming home. It's my wife and then you're like, yeah, you fuck your knot And you fucking slit his throat Like We know there are a lot of rationalizations and that you know, oh some of those guards aren't really canonically there They're like created by the animus that you have something to do in this game Like there are a lot of things but at the end of the day Even if you looked at it purely on a canon basis, you ignored the guards It's still as fucking stupid for atcio to be like I am above these right as he's about to kill Rodrigo Borgia. Yeah, but he's left a trail of templar bodies behind me exactly So, all right, we're all in agreement. Please. Tell us in the comments why we're wrong. I'm I actually really want to hear a solid argument for why this is a great ending and it makes perfect sense Uh, whoever's up to the task leave us some hate mail and we will enjoy reading and responding to that I'm sure I won't I probably won't Well, we should also consider too that aside from the ending being kind of lackluster there is An an issue when it comes to people have pointed this out before and and while I don't think it's super extreme There are definitely things that happen with atcio in this game and he doesn't so much suffer consequences He's he's kind of like with the doge He gets the doge killed and people think that he did it and he didn't But then in the very next mission, like you're like one doge was not enough and you killed the other doge in a templar one And no one seems to care. No one's like How does this guy's killing all these fucking doge's? Yeah, like that that's two doge's right after the other what just happened No one seems to care you go back to the view and you're like, yes, I just killed the doge I think with killing the doge's Um came my favorite gameplay mechanic in ac2 the head and gun It's like no, okay. Well, they're the gun the gun's a different thing, but like Um, when it's like, okay, you've killed this important guy now like, okay You're in this big, you know Area with a lot of guards. They're coming at you escape the area and in florents Like you've either got to run and you got to hide or you just got to fucking fight them off And in venice, I was like not fucking I'm just gonna go jump in a canal and hide under a bridge for 20 seconds And then everyone goes. Oh, where did he go? You know made your own They just gotta leave Yeah, because they can't go to the water the diving button in this game Is really fun like yeah, I think off a big building. Yeah, so while we're talking about things that we didn't like I want to mention something just kind of I had a really I had a really solid segue I was about to hit Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Speaking of diving and being in the water Nick Do you remember In bonfire of the vanities The the the quest that's on a boat. I've never played bonfire the vanities. I'm asking nick Oh, is this is this this is that one of those dlc Yeah, you had to get into the water. Oh my god. Yeah, you've yeah, you've got a yeah Fuck that boat man. Good christ fucking entire quest. Holy balls It's that one took me like minimum an hour like two hours to complete and the only reason I was able to fucking get it is because I noticed at one point there was a glitch Where like one of the guards like stopped moving or whatever and I was only able to get it because I took advantage of the glitch of the Guard moving because I would get to like one motherfucker left and I was about to go in And kill this guy undetected and then I I'd move like half a pixel to my left and one of these big boy motherfuckers that spot me and it's mission over and It's like well there goes 20 fucking minutes I've played this game more times than I've drawn breath and that Fucking mission still takes me. Oh my god every time. I always this time I had to remind myself like our good buddy Treviso on a stealth channel did a unity stealth run that took him 946 tries Hey, I just have to remind myself like he can do that so I can do this so I can do this I can I can take 12 or 13 tries to get onto this fucking boat Eventually I resorted to just googling like what did other people do and just following the instructions. Yeah, that's fair Because yeah, man that fucking quest sucks a car. It's the worst and I honestly I hate the dlc sequences entirely because Oh, yeah, they completely kill the pacing of the story. I understand that they're like, okay Well, we're gonna do these dlc later and they'll just slot into the story there That's fine But I think I would have preferred it if they let me finish the story and then say oh, hey You know what these are those things that he did in between and you can do them now Yeah, that would have been so much better because then you can treat it as a completely extraneous thing And it's not killing the fucking pacing because right when you get to the moment where you're there with all your assassin buddies You got the piece of Eden. You know where this motherfucker is You're going to go kill him at the Vatican. You're ready to go It's like here's three hours of dicking around and for Lee and fighting a priest And I don't give a shit about any of it It seems like at least every sequence whether minorly or majorly at least has some sort of Aspect to it in which etio is either killing or working towards killing somebody that was responsible for the murder of his family And then those two sequences are like Yeah, there's a there's a fight in four we go fight and then yeah, there's some priests go kill the priest That's a very good point Because it it not only breaks the pacing but it also breaks like the objective Exactly. It's like it's like, okay. Sure. I get like i'm a i'm a good guy vigilante motherfucker now like i'm helping people but like It it doesn't serve any real functional purpose Yeah, it's really bad. Also etio gives a very unrelated speech Like the speech is good, but it's kind of irrelevant to the rest of the story because he's like It would have consumed me and it it did consume you because you tried to kill rodrigo at the end of the game You've motherfucker Like it's a great speech and I love it, but it's it's it's it's not very compelling when you think that literally after He gives that speech about revenge not consuming you he then goes and lets revenge consume him But I mean Then he doesn't because he spares rodrigo if anything that speech is the closest we get to A character justification for why he would not kill rodrigo Yeah, but you're right to twice before he did if you're above getting revenge you could just not go to the vatican You know exactly he could just not do it I mean, I guess he's got to take the fucking piece of each or whatever He's kind of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't because he Shouldn't have gone there. Like didn't he have to go get the staff though? No, no, no No, what I'm saying is if he does kill rodrigo Yeah, then he's letting revenge consume him, which is the right decision to make But if he doesn't then he's making the stupid decision of letting a pope templar live. So yeah, yeah, exactly Yeah, like I think I think the solution that we provided earlier just have rodrigo escape solves that problem Yeah, he gets yeah, exactly But then the the writers are probably looking at that going well, what was etzio's character arc? How do we make the ending? Dramatic and that's I think a worthwhile question to ask But there's got to be something built into the story that allows him to have that moment in the end That feels like you've earned it And isn't completely out of left field at the same time if that was the justification of oh We have to have etzio have some sort of a character arc Why couldn't they have just like let him escape and then had some like, you know stupid ass playable You know epilogue at the end, right? I mean you can do the thing too where where you complete your revenge And then afterwards you're like damn revenge. It's actually doesn't fix anything right that would have been maybe equally as you know Flaccid but well, I think the thing that I'm trying to say is typically In order to express a character arc the the unit that you use to do it is with a choice is with the choices that the character makes and They're looking for a choice that etzio can make in the ending That would be Unexpected would be something that would signify that he's grown and this is like the easiest thing to do for that But if they had dug a little deeper or thought a little harder about like What is actually the story we're telling about etzio's growth? Like There there there's yeah, there's better ways to do it. That's all well You also have to consider too that like throughout the entire game etzio is Is often like not afraid To to kill anyone and he even says one time he's like joking He's like well that saves me from having to bloody my sword plus, you know, and there's One choice he makes early on to establish an arc Is that when he's killing vieiri he fucking murders the shit out of him, right? Like that's a really intense. Yeah moment. Yeah, and then mario comes in and he's like no We have to be respectful of the dead and he teaches in the rec we ask an impotry thing great moment But it is something that they resolved immediately. It's not like, you know Oh later on he realizes he has to be courteous of you know, he's learning to be you know respectful of the dead Yeah, but then he isn't though because also consider this too and i might I might consider it tim if okay. So, you know when you kill, uh, you go kills you go cause rey's dad finchesco Yeah, you know how his body is like strung up in his underwear from the rope Etzio did that then he literally did not listen to a word of that advice But it's it is shot in a way that it could have been the thieves that did it But if etzio if etzio is seeing him like seeing them unclothe him He's like yes do it. It's like you're not listening to your uncle's advice. Yeah, that's a fair See, I don't know. See i'm with you there tim like I I always Part of that we're like it definitely seemed to me more like it could have been the thieves, but You're right. It does it does seem a little sus As to how they can say i'm always surprised by that. He understood it for everything else But well, yeah, because it's like etzio is like you're right. I must respect. They did But also i'm going to nod my head at francesco de pazis naked body strung up on a rope Yeah, you know what maybe etzio just said fuck francesco de pazis But like these other guys like you know that they didn't directly kill my dad so like I guess Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That's a good point. So hey, by the way larson Yeah, what's up? No, I'm just gonna say if my etzio impression is like super embarrassing Just cut it out of punch. No, it's actually it's better than mine. I think I don't think it's pretty funny I think it's fine. Okay. Well then well then cut out me mentioning it Cut this part out. I will you know what tim? I think it's pretty cute I only have one more note. Okay. What's your note? Um when you had to go around and collect the Fucking the the glyphs the glyphs. Yeah Yeah, so when you had to go around and collect the glyphs, I thought that was fun as like a side piece I thought I don't know. Maybe I thought that there were a little too many of them, but that was fine I didn't mind them. Did you do more coding them? I think I got like the first time I played it through in like April or whatever I Don't think I did I got like I don't know maybe five shy or whatever this one. I think I was only missing one Oh, wow It I don't know like they were fun to get and all But decoding them at first was like, oh, okay, cool. There's this little turning thing. It's a puzzle. That's fun And like, oh, okay. Yeah, cool That's like there's like a code and you got to turn the thing to the right code and it's fine But then at the end it's like Okay, there's these random ass fuck ass shapes that aren't even shapes. They're just lines And you got to figure out which set of lines corresponds to which number it's so frustrating Oh my god. Yeah, I was the last like two or three I stared at them for like five minutes and then I got a headache and I was like, all right We're we're going to wiki. Well, yeah, yeah, because there there are ones where I feel like You know, if I was playing this game the air it came out and I just had to spend as much time as possible playing this game I would just sit there and try to solve it But there were some of them that were so fucking head scratching that I could literally see myself staring and work on this puzzle for an hour And is that really what I want to be doing when I'm playing Assassin's Creed game not really right after I looked it up I was like, oh, okay. That's dumb. But like at least it makes sense. There was some I looked up and I was like I'm I'm like generally I'm fairly smart and I never would have figured that out I could have figured it out I don't know maybe But like it was definitely way beyond the scope of what I was the mental energy that I was trying to put in You know the ones that pissed me off the most were the ones where you had to like line up the spherical painting See, I didn't mind that those were all piss easy But then they got really hard in the last like four or five of them and they made me want to kill myself No, see, I never I never I never minded the spherical paintings. It was always the like One equals this Spoilers for next week though, if you do them in brotherhood those spherical painting ones fucking suck in brotherhood But in ac2, well, yeah, ac2 they're fine. Yeah, but no, but in ac2 they're like this They're always this obscure ass painting and you don't know which way is upright, you know, it's it's like I had trouble with them personally. I don't know tim. Maybe you should just start going to art museum Maybe maybe you should take a mental competency test I did it's whether or not I enjoyed unity Wow Specifically unity parkour at sabash and delaria at memento underscore gallery on twitter Because he would say if you did not enjoy unity parkour you are mentally deficient Wait, so nick that was the last of your notes. Yeah, that was the last of my note Well, so I guess I could I guess I could just put in my little nitpick about gameplay Um Compared to ac1 the combat in this game is is not up the par. Um, I like it better the combat Um, the sound design is way off. It doesn't sound like you're fighting with sword It sounds like you're you're fighting with like nerf pool noodles Um, not a fan. I disagree. I don't like the little animus Uh effects on the guards. It really takes a cinematic feel off of it Knowing that every guard has a little has a little white the fucking halo around them. Yeah, but ac1 did that but worse No, ac1 ac1 does it a little bit more subtle in my in my regulation No, I disagree. Well, also every time you swing your sword or any weapon There's a little animus like outline on the sword. Did you notice that it drives me up the wall? Oh, I didn't notice that I never know. Okay, so so load up the game or just watch a video Every time you swing your sword There's a little animus flicker on the outline of your sword and it follows you the whole entire swing It looks ridiculous. Oh, here's my nitpick I 100 of the game, but and it shows that I have 100 sink But there are templar layers or something that you can only get if you like pre-ordered the game at walmart Which obviously I didn't do and while some of the things that are pre-order specific. I can activate on uplay I can't seem to activate these templar layers for whatever reason and As such there is a part of my dna tracker that is just going to be empty forever Oh, one of them came with the walmart pre-order one of them came with the gamestop pre-order And one of them came with the fucking amazon. What the fuck? I don't know pre-order So like I don't have that shit And it's been 10 it's been 11 years since this game came out Why are those not just in the game now for everybody because fuck you yeah because fuck you that's why Yeah, because fuck me something I think is is worth mentioning in terms of like the story and in why this story is more impactful To some people than they see one and whatnot. I think It's important to mention how even like very insignificant characters And this game have personality like for instance the thief and the courtesan that you deliver the letter to at the beginning He's like don't worry. I'm not contagious She might be and you see that guy once again at the execution and he tells you to run That's a run boy. That's it and fast And but they they they didn't need to provide such a character with like any form of joke or one liner or anything No, tim. I'm with you. I like I like that shit a lot. But you also have this really really nice Yeah, and I mean you also have this like lengthy database now that that that that provides you with Little videos on the targets that you're facing little like these Like even the buildings get attention and you can look in the database and see like what's the history of this building the entire world and and universe feels alive because Every little aspect has some thought put into it And I think that's something that's lacking in ac1 Because a lot of the characters you interact with outside of your targets In well, you don't you interact with your targets and you interact with the beryl leaders. That's it In this case you interact with so many different people Uh, that's not true. I also interact with the beggar lady who's like, please, uh, can I have some money? I'm poor and sick and hungry poor and sick and hungry That's why I think we think back on this one a little bit more fondly because because also I think it represents a new status quo for the assassins and that the assassins are more of the people And in ac1 they're perched up in masyaf and they kind of like tower over in this game though They're made up of of whores and thieves and mercenaries and it's all we call them sex workers tim It's all this. No, well, I only say whores because they call them whores in the game They call them courtesans in the game. They call them whores. They call them courtesans. No, they don't. Yes, they do Tim if you tim if you don't support sex work just sex work is you're such a hypocrite I'm literally subscribed to your only fans. Hey, no one's person about that. I didn't even know about that I might have to subscribe. I'm I'm the only fan That's why it's called. Ah, yes. Yes, of course So, yeah, it's made up of just courtesans and mercenaries and thieves You know, it's it's it's not it's it's not just this just like Stognatic castle up above that only you know, select people are a part of it It's it's more and obviously I appreciate that vibe from that game because a normal person like atco Is being thrust into this battle and you're learning The new status quo for the assassins through atco through his family It's a really interesting evolution of the creed and of the assassins and Templars That we see in this game and just for the second game of the series to do such a big jump. I think it's pretty cool I also think it's pretty cool. I agree with everything you just said You took the words right out of my dick as always tim as always guys There are several ways you can support this show which cost you absolutely nothing You can subscribe to our youtube channel like the episode comment on the episode telling us what you thought You can also follow us on twitter at hook played where we often tweet little clips from the show Questions and jokes and stuff Liking and retweeting those tweets can be very helpful to us too And be sure to recommend the show to anybody, you know Who likes assassins creed nick where can people find you if they want to slide into your dms? um, you can find me on twitter at ginga ninja 799 that's uh gin G a n i n j a 799 If you want to support this podcast and its friends With monetary value, you can also hit me up on venmo at nicolas collins Nick thank you for joining us and sharing your unique perspective on ac2 You know, I was really just trying to live up to the precedent set by putrid moldy man So I really appreciate you guys having me on He set the bar high we know he did he really did I hope I can live up to him. Yes Um, I've been the first host and I've been other hosts and I've been guest host We'll see you next week when we talk about assassins creed brother hood get ready for it brother Next time I call you I'm gonna be like press one press one Can you leave that in the podcast? Oh, I'm leaving it in baby I'm leaving that shit. That's so good. That was the best moment that I've experienced all week. Anyway