 Good evening and welcome to Montpelier Civic Forum, and we're on the road to town meeting day 2020 and This is an unusual year because we have a district district 3 where we have two seats up when Ashley Hale resigned We have a one-year term That has a candidate and we have three candidates for the two-year term of replacing Glenn Hutchinson Who decided that he wasn't going to run again? In district 2 we have Connor Casey running unopposed in district 1 We have Donna Bate running unopposed and we actually have a great show Or we put the two of them together and that's a two-parter that's about a half an hour a piece well worth watching and We also have Anne Watson Explaining why we should reelect her mayor again running against no one you can see a trend going and And that's a good show too And we have our school board candidates Who are all going to be elected in the same trend you can see and then we have an excellent show With Bill Fraser talking about the city budget and Libby is going to discuss the school budget Both of those are excellent shows as well and tonight We are in the school district in one of the three-year terms with Jill Remick who's come to visit us Jill, thank you for coming. Thank you for having me Why in the world are you running for the board? So I am a very proud resident of Montpelier. I have been for 15 years. I grew up in St. John'sbury. I do have a daughter in the system, but I I'm actually running Despite that not because of it because I mean well I would still like to be able to participate as a parent And so that's why I've been hesitant to step up and run for the board in the past but she's getting older and She's getting older. What grade is she in? She's in sixth grade. Trust me. That's not old And so I have several years of experience I worked for a long time as the policy and legislative affairs director at the agency of education And then most recently now I'm at the tax department in the property tax division So I kind of have a unique perspective in that I can actually Understand how the very complex Machinations that take you from when you vote on a school budget to what your tax rate ends up being what shows up on your property tax bill And also a pretty good handle on education policy and the things that Montpelier is doing well and the things that we want to work on And so I was encouraged to run by a few folks and I thought I'm running out of reasons to say no And I would I would like to offer you were the time commitment Yes, that's why I was a little hesitant definitely depending on which board member you talked to it's a pretty major time commitment. It's true I I like to read a lot and I know that it's gonna cut back on the number of books I'm gonna get to read this year But I I do think the more that I've now that I've put myself out there and I've been talking to folks about it I'm actually pretty excited about it because I do think I have Something of value to offer at the board and the community. When did you move to Montpelier? in three I Graduated from Lyndon State College And then I worked at the Times Argus for a few years and lived in Northfield and then my husband and I bought our house And we've been there ever since so you were working on Main Street in the time in the Times Argus. Yes. Yes. Yep Yep, so we're now we have shipy. Yeah What was Montpelier like growing up in St. John's Berry did you go to the Academy? I went to St. John's Bray Academy. Yep, which was outstanding Montpelier was the place that you'd come to get your driver's test and it felt very big and Funky and fun. I remember there was a burrito cart when I got my driver's permit And that was like a really exciting day for me that I actually parallel parked in the big city of Montpelier and got a Burrito from a cart So it was always, you know, did you try and become a page? No, I had two friends that that were though. They were pretty excited about that We'd like to host somebody someday Yeah, so raising a child in Montpelier versus how I grew up in rural St. Jay is very different Well, I'm taking you to what was the perception of Montpelier High School from the Academy or didn't you even think of it? Didn't even think about it. Honestly. There was no sports interaction St. John's Bray was a pretty big high school and had pretty big rivalry obviously with the Linden Institute and so And I was not I Didn't play sports in high school So I wasn't quite as you know, we'd go and cheer them on but we were always playing bigger schools than Montpelier Now if I'm doing my math correctly in 2003 when you moved here, you did not have a child correct What was school? What was your perception of the school not having a child in it? So if you could remember back to you and your husband Jesse When you didn't have a child in the school. What your perception of the Montpelier school district was? I think definitely parents to be yes, and we We you know, we ended up in our house in downtown Montpelier Which was not necessarily what we originally, you know working towards and it's been an absolute Surprise blessing in every way to raise a kid here. I think honestly coming in from the outside as someone who was just a property owner I I was and continued to some extent to wonder about You know the U32 Montpelier merger and why that wasn't happening and and you know I would go to like my Brother-in-law's games at U32 and saw this big school and couldn't figure out why Montpelier and U32 weren't one Now that I'm here and I have a child going through the system and she can walk easily to all three schools It's pretty great but I still want to make sure that there's a great deal of rigor especially at the high school level because What we got at St. John'sbury Academy was such a unique experience, you know We had students from all over the world. We had every possible AP course every possible sport Music art drama. Let me walk you through the merger if we were to do extensive repairs to Main Street Middle School We'd essentially be closing the door forever to the notion of merging with U32 And picking up a critical mass of students at one of the two High school or one of the two schools in order to offer more AP classes more art classes Do you think that it's inevitable that the merger will never happen? Gosh, I would not even dare to estimate I Have to do a lot more research about what the plan is for the middle school. The building is definitely Older and it's tight. They don't have a room to do the things that they need to do there and And that's such a tough age. That's such a critical age for students That it would be great if there was you know more outdoor space and if the busing could be easier You know, there's definitely factors to that but But there's more than one way to figure it out and I don't know that you could ever say never say never about merging or Closing buildings or thinking about using the space differently I think there's lots of options on the table, but that's a that's a good point that if we really invest in it Then that's a commitment for the immediate future. We've been on a very slow growth curve In the schools on the margin. We're picking up students But we never projected to have the kinds of student body that we had when you came here, you know or The decade before right Is the high school sustainable? I think it is but we definitely lose a Significant number of families and students as kids get older because as families want to buy a home or move into a bigger apartment Or something like that. They do not have those options in Montpelier if we were coming to Montpelier now I don't think there'd be a house we could afford to buy in Montpelier So we have to actually think about they're not they're not in Isolation those two problems So, you know when my daughter was in kindergarten those classes were Overflowing with kids of all different backgrounds and kids from all different socioeconomic status and as they get older The families that are choosing to buy a home or want to you know, move into commit somewhere Cannot afford to stay in Montpelier and they're moving out So I feel like I want to be a part of kind of continuing that conversation About how to support more housing for families and everybody So that we can keep those kids for the long term because it the numbers dwindle at high school pretty significantly Then you have the people my age and my wife's age and who's going to replace us, you know, will we be replaced? By young families, right? Right now what I see in the real estate market in Montpelier is Is it's really really hard for? To working parents with kids or not with kids, but to working individuals to be able to afford There's there's very few houses that are within the price range of what a Vermont salary or two Vermont salaries are So we really need to broaden our tax base a little bit. What happens to our subsidized lunch people were renters, right? Right then well the more people we get in here the broader the base, you know, we have more we'll have more Taxpayers will have a little bit more of a property tax base. You know Montpelier is so for the number of actual residents like you and I who live in a home and we pay our property taxes versus the amount of services and Supports that a city this size needs. It's not equitable. We have so many state buildings Could you explain what the pilot is about? Sure. So pilot is the payment. What does it stand for? Yeah, it's the payment in lieu of taxes That the state makes to towns for state-owned buildings and federally there's federal pilot dollars as well So there's the you know the federal forest But basically the city of Montpelier is filled with a lot of state office buildings I work in one of them and it's a beautiful building and I'm so glad to work in downtown Montpelier So it's certainly not a complaint But it is not taxable. It's tax exempt because it's it's a state-owned building. So the state We work with the buildings in general services to calculate a payment in lieu of taxes that the state makes to each of the cities That have those it's sort of a way to say well We're not paying taxes But here's a payment in lieu of taxes because there are services that the city is providing by hosting these places But if you think about the concentration of state office buildings and other tax exempt Businesses and not nonprofits and Which are all what make Montpelier great? It also means there's the tax burden falls on those of us who own property and are not tax exempt so It's it's a really tough Balance because it part of what makes Montpelier great Is that my kid can walk to the library and walk to the church and walk to school and walk to my office and We have this great downtown But the reality is you're dividing up that tax burden of like a city of 20,000 people among 8,000 of us and so it's expensive. We need more houses and businesses here. I think In terms of of our schools Again, I'm going to walk you to you didn't have a child in the school What was the perception of the strength of the Montpelier school that you thought you would put a child in? Well, I had the advantage of working at the agency of education and part of my job You were looking at the staff was eight was analyzing data all the time about different schools and you know For better or for worse. There are rankings that come out about where schools place and Montpelier always did very well on on all the standardized tests AP and It was the kneecap and now he being Advanced placement course kneecap being kneecap being the New England Common Assessment Program, which is now I think kids now know it. It's the s back this standardized Boy, we've done how many acronyms with a matter of a minute assessment consortium so they're the they're the they're the federally required standardized tests and What we do in Vermont because we're small is we partner up with neighboring states and other states to share in that test development So we're not paying quite as much, you know, so we share I don't know who we're partnering with s back anymore because I haven't been following that as closely But there's other states that use s back So I always would do, you know, we we would do press releases annually about How Vermont students did and how Vermont schools did and Montpelier was always always did very well The thing is that if you start to look into the data deeper about Vermont And then Montpelier as a subset of Vermont if you compare Vermont to like Iowa or another state that is homogeneous that is not particularly diverse and and Does not have any kind of urban hub or extreme rural to the state, you know, to way that like Wyoming or Alaska does We weren't we're not as great as we always think we are Vermont always says, you know, we've got the best whatever But part of that is a result of our our demographics So we can't just sort of rest on our laurels and feel like we're doing well for large part We're a well educated community and a well educated community that really prides itself I think our our gather our civic gathering point is a library as a public library You know where people take pride people use that public library more I suppose than in many other communities across the country Are we testing as well as we should given the? Education of the parents and the like I Don't know that I can ever say where we are or not meeting a certain bar I you would be on the board on the school board establishing expectations well Right the superintendent and the principals of the schools are definitely more tightly aligned to the instructional leadership aspect But no, we would definitely be looking at data about how we're doing. I guess I guess what I meant to say is more While there's always room for improvement, I'm not I'm not either I'm not either satisfied nor dissatisfied with our results there Where is the room for improvement in your mind? Well, I think because we are small and Limited in what we can offer In our space and in our budget. I think we do not have as many AP or other track advance placement courses I think part of what made you know the federal no child left behind which is definitely You know had some very admirable points to it about making sure that we're we're meeting all students wherever they are Means that we're also not able to challenge some students as much as we would like or challenge them as individuals as much as we would like We're all you know, they're all still ushering through the same classroom You know the classroom arrangement and the time of day and all that is just like it was a hundred years ago You know school bell rings at 3 p.m. And instead of taking that extra time to You know offer some gifted and talented courses or offer a different whatever, you know a lot of kids are Wandering around to the library Don't know that side. Don't we recognize that in our flexible pathways? ideally It's really hard to You know, I was at the agency of education when we implemented the education quality standards that allowed for flexible pathways And that is absolutely the goal it is very time intensive to do that and Could you explain what flexible pathways are sure so so essentially? You know students can You know within a reason be demonstrating their progress at certain subjects in their own time whether it's they're doing a You know an independent learning project or selecting a particular subject that they want to dig deeper into The idea being that they're building sort of their own portfolio and working at their own pace and studying things They're engaged in and so they're demonstrating those proficiencies in You know research writing exposition Presenting that are sort of those cross skills that are those the proficiencies necessary for proficiency based graduation Yes Yes, and I'm happy to say it seems like nationally that the the proficiency based graduation has not Hindered kids ability to get into college as much as there was there was definitely that worry. Okay. Now. Let's back up ten seconds What is proficiency based? Graduation and what is that requirement right so so essentially there's standards that all students have to meet But then you basically are demonstrating how far along on the this the way to proficiency that you are So if you can demonstrate your proficiency in these certain content areas and these certain skill sets then you graduate with You know Basically a transcript that shows your proficiency based performance for school so that then you can take that on to college and or beyond The reality is it's it's hard to do something like that when you're still using the same You know we're not getting more teachers, which would be great for exactly the sort of reason you know the students are Still learning how to Drive their own learning to that way. I think depending on what school and what classroom you're in It's more or less successful. We definitely here in some schools in other parts of the state It's it's not working very well or the students aren't getting what they need But mom Hillary seems to be doing pretty well in that regard There are some community who would say that our our student-teacher ratio is really low and that compared to other states and That we should be producing more given that ratio is so low Excuse me I Think there's more to that data point than people might realize Frankly, there's a lot of social and emotional behaviors that are in the classroom There are That take a lot of students time and Take a lot of the core teacher classroom time that is not able to be spent on instructional learning. Is that behavioral? Concerns absolutely and it can be for lots of reasons You know maybe the students hungry or they're tired, you know There's lots of things that happen outside of the classroom that the school has no no You know no oversight over that impact a student's ability to learn and and cooperate and participate in a traditional classroom So what schools have to do a lot of times is have instructional aides to come in and kind of help Referee but also help guide, you know individual learning and help students get where they need to go And so that takes staff So I have not once in my time with my daughter in a Montpelier school felt like she had a small Staff student ratio. She was always in a large classroom with one key instructional leader, and I wouldn't want less So I think the student staff ratio is taking into account a lot of staff members that are not the same as a Core instructional educator, so it's not really telling the whole story It's not like we have a classroom at the elementary middle school with ten kids for one teacher That's not that's not what actually is happening in the room Now the unspoken thing that you were looking at when you were looking at educational data is the achievement gap between the children who are unsubsidized and Freelunches and the rest of the class and that's not something that started in 2019-2018 2017 but I believe that the board has said We want to look at this and we want to address this and we want to close that gap and Libby and her team have been charged with putting together a plan that would accomplish that You were looking at that data when you were working at the Department of Education and you said well Montpelier comes out looking really good, but there's that other side where probably there are very few Vermont school districts that look very good in in those terms when you're casting light on that that doesn't make the press releases, right What's the feeling that when you were there in the state? What was the feeling on the gap on the achievement gap? Yeah, it's it's certainly not unique to Montpelier or Vermont. I mean this is a national issue Well, it's no child left behind, right? And and so I think what was great about no child left behind is that it forced us to talk about it and say it and Record that and publicize that in a way that could have been easily brushed under the rug in past years It you you have to look at your free reduced lunch student performance your overall student performance your male versus female performance and how many ethnic minorities we have for the towns in Vermont that have ethnic, you know have have the breakdown of You know by ethnicity like all those breakdowns. You can't ignore what those statistics are telling you and so what are those statistics telling us? There are advantages that are so Subtle or taken for granted. We don't even realize so here's those be so here's a great example So the other night we had a group of parents who went to meet the two finalists for the middle school principal and And I was one of those parents and it was the same parents We all have the ability the time The resources to take a time an hour out of our evening to weigh in on something like this but if you're a family that you're working two jobs or You have you aren't able to find child care for your kids. You can go and do that or you're you know, you're Working as a single parent trying to feed your there's lots of those Things that I think a lot of us take for granted in Montpelier. I was able to do that. I had my child was home She was fed she had another adult in the house who could help her with her homework And I didn't have anything to lose by going and participating But when you go to an event like that it really sort of highlights the people who are not able to participate that way And so the same thing happens with the students so You know if a student is in the classroom and they have not There's not someone who is able to be at home focused because they're working two or three jobs with a lot of Vermonters are doing Or they they're hungry or they're tired or they're cold Because you know, there's lots of those things that play out and how a student can learn and be ready to learn we also, you know, we pay for our child's athletic equipment and Registration for camps all of those things that enrich her experience and position her well to perform That a lot of us have in Montpelier a lot of people don't and the kids just continue to get Left behind boy doesn't that sound hopeless to you that we're not gonna be able to change The condition of how much they have of you know, it just sounds like those those kinds of barriers are Beyond the ability of the school to change, right? Well, so I think I think there are things that the school does do I think it was great when Vermont decided that there wasn't going to be a reduced lunch price that they were gonna provide free lunch for students I think that so the pejorative is taken away. Yes. Yes, it's not there's not a ticket that you have to take that says you're Reduced versus free or whatever I think our schools do a phenomenal job of trying not to have kids have to pay for any of their supplies There always seem to be at least a lot of the camps and trainings around here There always seem to be scholarships available and I think also Especially at the middle school. Obviously, I'm focused on that because I have a child there but they have a lot of really good enrichment for after school and That's really key because that window of time between three and five p.m When kids are unsupervised or they're not, you know, they may not be eating a very healthy snack Or they may not have anyone helping them with their homework or they may be you know out and about and catching a cold That period of time just nationally is not just Vermont But like that period of time is a really dangerous time for kids that age And it's where they can lose a lot of important growth And so I think the middle school has done a really good job of of having lots of opportunities Including just having the library open for that period of time no cost You don't have to sign up or commit you can go and do your homework or read a book or get some help And it's just it's it's a resource to the kids those little things do help and Those do matter and they do make a difference. I think well something else that makes a difference our parents volunteering in the schools and the community stepping up for the schools and I'm thinking particularly of Matt McClain's Community-based learning and the number of sites Around the city that do step forward to take high school students in that strength Absolutely, and that's those connections will help those students forever They will have that experience. They will have that connection They may use that as a reference for a job down the road I mean those that that connection and that experience opens doors in a way that It's it's such a smart. It's such a smart solution. It really is We're a white middle-class community Do you feel that the children who are ethnically different have a challenge blending in to this community I'm not one so I don't know but I have to believe that That this is Vermont in general, especially like I said growing up in the Northeast Kingdom That there are things that a lot of us just assume and assume that we're doing right or assume that we're being sensitive about that We are not And so I can imagine that that would be really challenging I think Montpelier overall is a really good community and I feel like even just since when I was in high school Versus now that my daughter is getting into that age the acceptance and the support of Marginalized groups that was non-existent when when I was even in high school, which was you know 25 years ago What would a marginalized group be so here's an example so We have we have gender-neutral bathrooms all over Vermont now not a thing my it's just a normal part of their school day when I was in high school Two girls were not allowed to dance together. It was considered completely inappropriate and This this was really sort of highlighted for me when I was watching a movie with my daughter And they said the first rule of this dance no same-sex couples And that was sort of how it was when we were kids and she was like wait that was That was actually a thing because to her they've grown up with a much better perspective on all aspects of just Individuality that that we were just we just took for granted. We didn't know any different where I grew up the the the real Disparities were with folks who were in poverty versus not, you know There's a huge amount of poverty in the kingdom and so there was definitely stigmas attached to that. It's a stigma attached. Do you think? Coming in from Roxbury to Montpelier. Oh, I don't know about that. There's so few kids I agree You know, I didn't really think of it that way I I remember when we were first early on having those conversations and and You know, I just was again counting my stars that the house we happened to buy is above the middle school Which was not our intention when we bought the house That that's a long way to to drive to go to school But the folks in Roxbury were saying well we we choose to live here We know that it's a haul and that's part of why we choose to live here We're okay with that and so that would just became sort of a non-issue And no, I think it's I think it's been a great arrangement I think it's always good to boost our enrollment and I think it's always good for those kids to be able to be in a bigger group where they can have more art after-school sports, you know all any time you have a Consolidation of students you get more opportunities We also get inefficiency. I mean that that school is extremely small as 30 or 40 students in it and it has to be staffed It will exist for a certain period of time that was written into the contract But after that its fate is open Which you'd find on that. I Would definitely like to hear more from the other Roxbury board members to hear how they're experiencing it I think the idea that those young grades really should be Local especially pre-k kindergarten 1-2 I think there's definitely value in continuing to have some sort of a community school of for that age group absolutely So I'm not I'm not able to really say that I have a position one way the other about it right now but I think it was a smart move to To move our middle and high school kids here, and I think it was a smart move to To beef up the early early grades there because pre-k is so incredibly important to set them on the right path And if they have that opportunity then let's do that, but there definitely could be ways we could use the buildings differently But that's part of why I want to get on the board and hear what what the plans are and hear what Roxbury folks have to say about it in terms of inclusivity What do you say to the religious conservatives who feel like the schools are moving more and more away from their core values? I Don't think a religious constituency has a say in how a public school should be No, but they do have a say in terms of how their child You know views the world how the world inside that school views their child I As as someone who grew up here and now has a child in the system I am so proud of how far we have come as a society and I I don't see the harm in Being airing on the side of inclusive and I'm I'm really like I said, I'm impressed that that's just sort of part of Our kids lexicon now. They don't even they don't think anything of saying what pronoun they are or that's just part of how they and it's really It really makes me proud to be in a community that that that values that and it's so much a part of Who we are and school is where you know school is still really tough for a lot of kids And nobody is ever going to be happy with everything that happens in what way for a lot of kids On a daily basis they're dealing with hormones friendship issues Sounds like you're describing the middle school. Yeah You know, there's a great deal on on high school students that you're supposed to somehow figure out what you're gonna Do with the rest of your life by the time you're applying to college when you're 17 18 years old That's a huge amount of pressure You know in elementary school. There's so many things that kids are dealing with there's there's health. There's family. There's You know, there's how you feel about how you're doing on your standardized test, you know, there's there's lots of Now that's in real world. That's not the cyber world pressures. No, right not even taking into account, you know, I I do think there's a sort of a malaise in general in our society dealing with You know social media and the news these days that is definitely impacting our kids, too It's just it's it's I don't think middle school or high school is ever gonna be easy for anybody Maybe for a few but how do you see the role of the board evolving? So I think it's really important that a board know what is and is not their purview So when I was at agency of education, you know, we worked with school board superintendents principles on a daily basis I think it's really important that our role is to to model the best practices and to support the administration and the schools in carrying out their long-term plans And also being a sounding board and a way to connect with the community but it is not appropriate for a school board member to to micromanage in any way the instructional practices at a particular school or to Or to you know go over the superintendents head when advocating for something I mean the whole idea is that we are a board of community members who are a sounding board and also Responsible for balancing the needs of every taxpayer in Vermont with the needs of the school and articulating that in both directions But you're also informal ombudsman Yeah Yes, I've been told that I need to plan on getting a lot of emails and stopped on the street You know questions and opinions and I was one of those people who did that as a parent So I I get it and I do think that our board has been pretty good about Hearing folks out. Sometimes you just need to have somebody hear you out so that the administration or the principal or the school board can hear what The what's happening at the school how that's actually you know impacting Jill I want to thank you so very much for being with me tonight Thank you, so I want to thank you guys for watching this show and as I said at the beginning and I'll say at the end Watch the other shows there. They're all really really good all of the candidates are good watch Libby's show on the school budget and Watch the show the bill has on the city budget One more thing Make sure that you get out and vote on town meeting day, and I know you're thinking well all these people are running unimposed But get out there and vote on these budgets Because voting on town meeting day is our collective responsibility and our collective democracy Thank you very much for your time