 Hello everyone, this is Ross at Teach Talk at the most influential blog on education in the UK. Today I am delighted to be joined by Rachel Higginson. Rachel, good afternoon. How are you? I'm good. It's Friday and I've got a coffee because I've allowed a coffee on Friday. So just for context-less, as Rachel and I met probably about two and a half years ago or something a gig that I was leading down in Devon. So Rachel, just introduce yourself to our listeners and tell everyone what you have done in education and what you do today. Sure. So I am a classic primary school teacher. I actually did a theatre degree, but decided to a PGCE because I wanted to stay where my boyfriend was at the time and a PGCE was an easy way of carrying on hanging out and the first time I walked into a classroom I just knew that I was one of the lucky ones that found my vocation. I absolutely love education. I love kids. So yeah, I was very happy for many years, but I had a real discord with the system. So I worked really hard, got my MPQH, was in senior leadership, really playing the game and doing the best I could to do the best job I could. But I always felt like I was a bit of an imposter because I didn't really understand the great push on English and maths in primary. The curriculum just wasn't the way I believed it should be. So I always found that really tough. So I suspect that was the motivation for moving into the work that you do today. Almost. What actually happened was somebody else motivated me. So a friend actually approached me in the playground and said I want you to be the headteacher of my new school and I was like, what? It turned out she was working in prisons at the time and she wanted to use the free school process to open a brand new school. So we spent four years together, squirreling away, emailing each other three in the morning, getting very excited about curriculum stuff. And we wrote the curriculum for Exeter Creative School. And against all the odds, we were supported by the Chagrack Trust down here in Devon and against some very competitive other applicants, we won the bid, which was just unbelievable. So it restored my faith in the DFE because it wasn't the most conventional bids but very sadly, shortly after we found out we won the bid, my friend died. It was very sudden and very, very sad. And she had taught me so much, not only about how to live life and live every day and its moments, but about if there's something you don't like in the world, there's something you believe is not the way it should be. It's your responsibility to change it. So two weeks after she sadly passed away, I handed in my notice in my day job and became fully fledged self-employed. And whatever goes through it's been ever since. So yeah, that's my story. I'm sorry to hear about that, but did the actual school start or was it all kind of put on the back foot? Well, it takes a very long time for a free school to come into fruition. We're at the early stages of building at the moment. And that's the Chagrack Trust spag as much as it is mine. I have meetings within the school and they're supporting the curriculum development. But yeah, it's not opened its doors yet. But I think it's across that would be a lovely, I guess memorial to your friend. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, totally. It's her legacy without a doubt. But I see my work that way too, you know, that every day I think of her. So will I pick your work and that school a little bit more? What I do with all my listeners is I ask them to describe their 16 year old self. So what were you like at school at 16? Oh, my gosh. That's such a good question. So I've always been a bit of a rebel, although I loved books and reading. Yeah, I guess my 16 year old self was I had long skirts. Did you hand in your homework in time or were you always late? I don't think I did it if I'm really. Well, I think we are that bad. I think you could be the first really naughty student ex teacher student we've had. Maybe that's why I'm not a teacher anymore. OK, so let's let's fast forward. What happened to kind of university age? Yeah, so I was actually supposed to be doing child psychology at Bath University. But my boyfriend at the time, my whole story is led by relationships and my boyfriend at the time he he cheated on me just before we were about to go and we were both going to Bath. So I was like, I'm definitely going. I don't want to be anywhere near you. So I ended up taking a year out. And during that year, I thought, why am I doing psychology? I'm I want to be an actress. So I turn around to my mum and dad and said, you know, this is what I want to do now. So yeah, I went and did a theatre degree. And at Bath or so or else? No, no, I can't I hadn't even done a level. So I couldn't even get into a reputable university. I ended up in Plymouth University and much just a lovely university. But, you know, my parents deviated from Bath down to Plymouth and just smiled sweetly and then off I went. Yeah. So who who raised that teacher of conversation with you? When did that first happen? Oh, do you know what happened was when I finished my degree? I knew I didn't want to be an actress, although I did very well on the theatre side of things and loved it. I didn't find it very fulfilling in terms of I didn't feel like I was doing any good. So I decided I want to be a nurse. So I phoned out my dad and said, I've got it, dad, I'm going to be a nurse. And he's like, not on your nelly. I'm not paying any more money. So, yeah, the PGC was free. So, yeah, that's what I went and did it. And but, fortuitously, I fell in love with it. Oh, my gosh, that was the best year of my education because suddenly I was doing something actually meant something. Now, you make a good point there. What if PGCs were free? You know, all the kind of difference you got in today. Yeah, yeah. Probably, you know, that recruitment retention crisis that we have, you know, although COVID, we've had a lot more teacher applications here in England actually, we still struggle to recruit teachers. And, you know, when I trained to be a teacher, you know, the free school meal kid, you know, bursaries, all those types of things were useful and helpful. But there was still, you know, part of the conversation to be in a teacher is that financial factor. So, you know, in your kind of teaching career, have you been predominantly down in Devon your whole career? Yeah, yeah. So I'm pretty much a Devon girl now. I've been here for 20 years. I just love it. I have to see 20 minutes away. I have Dartmoor 20 minutes the other way. Brilliant. And just lovely laid back people. I absolutely love it. It is a nice part of the world. Yeah. So tell us about some of the things that you do today in your kind of consultancy. What's a typical week look like? Oh, my gosh, like a particularly post-pandemic, you know, it's, there is no typical week to be honest. But my work has kind of taken two main paths. The first path has been school improvement support and curriculum development work. I'm really passionate about innovating curriculums. I mean, I've been really lucky that an Indian new framework has really reflected what I'm passionate about and has been really timely for me. So I've done lots of work with schools developing curriculums. And also I run a project called Finding My Voice because I really missed working with kids. Like, ultimately, that's where I went into education. And in all the schools I was working in, there was always a kid in the corridor screaming, you know, and also breakout rooms, timeouts. And so I really saw a need there. And also I'm really passionate about oracy. When I was doing the research effects to creative, I noticed a real discrepancy. We researched private schools and state schools in terms of how much oracy is valued within the curriculum. So I really wanted to develop something that would support disadvantaged kids particularly with being able to be more confident in their physical voices and be able to communicate more clearly. I mean, my dream, my head was two kids at an interview, Oxford University, ones from Eton, ones from, you know, really challenging backstory and they both communicate themselves really well. So what I was trying to create was a more, you know, equality in what I was doing. But also finding my voice means metaphorically, who am I and how am I going to use my skills to change the world to make it a better place? So how long have you been working for yourself? Oh, so it's been four and a half years now. It seems like a lifetime. I'm a newbie, really. I think that makes me a newbie as well because we've both been working the same time and we met probably pretty much the start of our journey, I suppose. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So my meeting with you was really, really poignant and very powerful because it's really hard when you're starting out because you've got a bucketload of passion, you know, exactly what you want to achieve. But when you haven't got that experience of doing this already behind you, you know, for people to trust you and let you come and have a go at doing your job in their school is quite a big step. And, yeah, you just filled me with buckets of confidence and gave me like, you talked really fast for about 10 minutes and just gave me a mid-year. I apologize. No, it was wonderful. And then I remember that an AD interrupted and said, Ross must have his break now. Oh, yeah, that's right. I do remember that, yeah. I haven't been letting you have your coffee. So where are you at now, you know, mentally with your work, you know, four years later, you know, pandemic's been tough for us all. I guess you've seen a lot of your work disappear like everyone. Yeah. How have you coped and where are you today? I think I've been really, I've had a real growth through the pandemic. There's been some really like dark times. I have to admit where it's just hard, you know, all of our lives and our family shoved in one house and my husband normally works abroad. So his job's really changed as well. But the thing I found during the pandemic is that I've just connected with so many more people and really grown a lot. I've been really lucky to be working alongside Mary Maya and she's likely to do a bit of interviewing and support for her wonderful Maya and co. I've just had meetings with amazing educators, Richard Gerver, Scott Bolt, Peter Hall Jones, Rachel Barrowford. People I would never have had the time to reach out and have a coffee with, you know, and it's just, and so, you know, I've just, I've learned a lot. I've listened to a lot of people and I've grown a network that, you know, I didn't, I didn't have before the pandemic. So, yeah. So let me put you in the spot. Give me your USP in 30 seconds. Oh, my USP is that, okay. And I'll cut this bit out. My USP is that I believe that education has a responsibility to create a better future and that means we need to grow and innovate in line with where society is at and that's what we need to keep doing. And why do you think that's the case? I see a very different world that my children are growing up in to the world we grew up in and I don't see much change in education much as I deeply value really strong knowledge and skills. I haven't got a problem with that at all. I also think we need to not get too scared to innovate and develop and support our young people to be able to navigate what is a very challenging environment. What do you think holds schools back from doing that? I think it's partly the system itself, but I think it's also the fact that they have grown up in the system which they are working in. So it's just like a family. Breaking little bits. You know how we parent in the way we were parented where we might try not to, but whatever it is. But it's just so intrinsic in us to educate in a certain way. And I think a lot of my work is getting people to think outside the box and think how can we innovate and do things differently. So I think you've answered the question in some shape, but could I put you in the corner and say what's the one thing you'd like to see change in education? Oh, it's really hard because I've got lots of things. You can only have one, just one. I would very much like to see a change in the disproportionate value of subjects and have a more equal approach to a more rounded curriculum including that of development of self and character and personality. And what's, you know, so I guess before the pandemic, but probably virtually as well, I suspect you've been working with lots of schools the last 12 months. What's your favorite part? What are the kind of great ideas that you see, that broader lens that other people might not benefit from? What are your best bits, your top picks? Oh, my gosh, the absolute best bit is when I explain the concept of disruptive innovation because we develop incrementally in schools and I like applying a lot of business theory to education and when you see that spark within a room thinking, wow, we can really start to think differently here. Yeah, I love that energy, but I think even more than that, when I get to, I do some deeper dive work in schools where I work alongside them for longer and seeing teachers go from feeling just fed up and tired and exhausted to really loving their work again and supporting them to really believe in themselves again. It's just like when you work with kids and you see that, you know, oh my gosh, it's just, it's really joyful to just see them happy. So going back to that, you know, you mentioned the word tired. We know teachers are exhausted. It's a stressful occupation. We've probably both suffered from it ourselves as reasons why we've worked differently. Workloads always a problem in schools. What's your best tip for everyone listening? Workload. Oh, do you know what? I echo Mary Meyer in just don't swear over the stuff that doesn't matter. I think there are characteristically, teachers are quite detailed people and I think that learning to prioritize only do the stuff that really is going to make a difference. Be confident in not doing things that don't. Yeah, that would be my absolute top. So less detail. Less detail, less stuff that doesn't really matter. I do a lot of sitting with leaders and saying, what can we get rid of here that we don't need to be doing? And what would be your advice for a school leader? Listen, absolutely listen. I think that school leaders are so used to working at such a high pace that taking time out to really look, feel, see, listen and step back is just so powerful. Yeah, some good advice. So, Rachel, I want to talk about probably just your freelance life a little bit more. I know there's lots of teachers that think what they can do next and taking that leap. You know, when I first thought, right, I'm going self-employed, it was a real scary moment, but I remember telling lots of people and they said congratulations that you're in that position where you can. And you might not feel that at the time, but it's quite a big scary leap. So what would be your first piece of advice for the teacher, school leader out there who's thinking about their next step and they think that they are ready to go freelance? What would be your pieces of advice? I think the first piece of advice is that if you feel you might be ready, you probably are. And secondly, I would say, you know, what I do is I have vision and values that I spent a long time on when I first became freelance. What is it I actually believe? And I revisit that every three to four months and it's evolved massively over that time like I've grown, I've changed my mind about things. And I think that's really important. But I use that as the gauge for what my work should be. And also I use that when I'm really not sure whether contracts what I should be doing or not. But also think about what it is you can bring that's perhaps not out there or where the need actually is and it will evolve and just ride it out and ride with it. It's a good tip. Yeah. It's a good tip I constantly have to think about the people I work with and if it, you know, the challenge of the diary versus the income versus the values is a constant dichotomy. Let's talk about some of the mechanics of being a freelancer. You know, invoicing, traveling, booking hotels, all those kind of practical things that you may or may not have to consider or factor in. Any wisdom? As soon as you can afford to get an accountant because it's a nightmare. Yeah, I have to say if there's any part of the job that, you know, is a real negative, it is having to manage your own finances. Yeah. One of my favorite things that I now do is I don't take part in any of the finance conversations. So it takes all the emotion away from the value of my work to let someone do that behind the scenes and raise the invoices. And very early on I was doing all of the, you know, we said before we came online that you're the janitor, you're the strategic manager, you're the project manager and the teacher within all your company. So yeah, some really good tips. Where do you see your work going post pandemic? Let's just assume the world is back to normal. What are your kind of immediate goals, I suppose? So I've been on a real journey in education. So I'm called Rachel Higginsen, creative consultant because I really want to take a fresh new look at things. Creative for some people means like artsy. It really doesn't mean that for me. The journey I've taken is that I don't want to be put in any field or group within education. What I really, really want to do is trying to bring the polarised debates together and let's all work towards a common goal. Because there's a lot of energy, physical mental energy wasted in education debate. And whilst there is of course some real value in that, I would just love to be able to in some way facilitate educators pushing forward towards a more collective setting. Sadly, the world, power and influence, people like a bit of polarisation or a good argument. And when there's nuance, there's a lot more deeper thinking required and a bit more common sense. And some people don't like that because it takes away their unique, maybe their unique selling point or the division that they want. And we see that in our politics as well. Rachel, we've passed the 20 minute barrier and this is where I start to there. Remember, Timmy Mallet? I'm sure you do. I do. Of course I do. So you can't pause or hesitate. So I'm going to throw loads of questions back to you. OK. Where you've got to think straight on your feet and give me the answer. And we're going to wrap up some of our conversation that we've had. And I can see if I can catch you out. That's my goal. But let's see how you do. So let's start easy. What's on your desk today? What are you working on? I'm working on a bid at the moment. Do lots of that. OK. How many pages is the bid so far? Six pages. OK. If we had 24 hours in Devon, where would you take me? What would we eat? What would we do? I'd take you to Dartmoor in the morning and the beach in the afternoon and we'd have a barbecue on the beach. Oh, fantastic. Let's get that planned. What book are you reading? Oh, I'm terrible because I read lots of books at once. Right, give us one. Give us one. One of my favourites of the moment I'm reading is called Drop the Disorder, which is about the negative impact of labelling children with special needs. It's fascinating. OK. Worst mistake you've made as a consultant for your answer? Suffering from terrible anxiety after every single conversation I have and analysing every word, which I'll probably do after this. Dream job. Now, I'm assuming you're doing your dream job, but what is that really abstract career that you never had? You know, I think Deepsea Diver or something wacky. What would it be? Prime Minister. Prime Minister, fantastic. How was homeschooling for you? Hell. What's your biggest career achievement to date? I think probably being brave enough to make me to go freelance, definitely. OK. If you wrote a book, what would the title be? Do it different. OK. Who would you recommend I interview next and why? Rachel Barrowford from Barrowford Fire Me. Yeah, she's a dear friend. Love her. Finish this sentence. The best head teachers are? Listeners. OK. Where can listeners find out next? Where can listeners find out about you, online, websites, things like that? Yeah, so I'm on Twitter, Creative Hig. And my link is there to my website, so you can find me all through there. OK. Last question. You've done very well. What would you hope to be your legacy? I really hope that young people feel more happy and fulfilled and have a clearer sense of direction through some of the work I've done somewhere along the line. There you go. So, Rachel, thank you very much. If you're ever in Devon, folks, there's the offer for a barbecue on the beach with Rachel. So I hope to be able to do that soon, Rachel. Thank you for all your amazing work that you do. Keep up the good work. You definitely, you know, you don't need me to say it, that you're doing some amazing stuff. And I know the pandemic's been tough for us all. Yeah. And thank you for your time. Thank you, Ross. OK, bye for now, everyone.