 So the question is what actually and I guess really that's really the heart of the question. What is Healing, what is biblical healing and I ended up coming across I saw this video probably about a week or so ago, I think it's about two weeks old and The guys that are over at remnant radio were critiquing a Video by John McCarthy's older video. I'm not exactly sure how old the video is as a matter of fact It's not on video. It's on audio and so therefore I'm not sure if even some of the things that MacArthur said he still holds so I would imagine that he does MacArthur is a cessationist The people over at remnant radio. They are Continuationists for those of you who don't know a continuationist is someone that believes that the gifts in particular Matter of fact, let's back it up. Let's talk about a cessationist first A cessationist is a person that believes that some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased They would categorize them not all but some would categorize The gifts that have ceased as the either apostolic gifts or the sign gifts and then the continuationist They would believe that they stand by that all of the gifts have continued Where do I stand? Well before I tell you where I stand. Let's first go to a Passes that is brought up often to discuss this and that is 1st Corinthians 13 8 Going further it says that Paul says this love never fails. But if there are gifts or or prophecies They will be done away with if there are tongues They will cease if there is knowledge it will be done away with for we know in part and we prophesied in part But when the perfect comes the partial will be done away with So the question is two things one what is a perfect but two is this always saying that is this to say that These gifts will be done away with well Here's my stance my stance is This passage whether gifts are have ceased or certain gifts have ceased Or they've continued This passage doesn't say so and I know that bothers. Maybe some of my continuations friends But this passage doesn't say that this passage states that let's put it back on the screen again says where love never fails But if there are gifts of prophecy and notice the three gifts that that are highlighted here gifts of prophecy Gifts of tongues and then also knowledge Prophecy will be done away with tongues will cease knowledge will be done away Well, if you're going to say that Prophecy and tongues will have ceased Then you also have to include knowledge And then when will they cease when will they be done away with well when the perfect comes? Well, what is the perfect? Well the perfect I would say would be christ Not the close of the canon because again if it is the close of the canon Which by the way, no one knew when exactly the close of canon was if you're writing this and at the time That he states this the canon wasn't closed But even then once the close once the canon was closed once there was no more Apostolic authority to write passages to write scripture Everyone didn't have the scriptures And so what what what we would need would be those three gifts Prophecy because I think the problem is we tend to lump prophecy in with what we see today We give the definition of prophecy what people today give the definition of prophecy as that being someone giving a foretelling Uh revelation But most prophecy in the bible that we see is not foretelling most prophecy is Forth telling and so I don't think that's been done away with As a matter of fact a cessations would agree with that A cessations would also agree that if tongues mean languages Then that hadn't been done away with also because there are people on the planet At least a small group maybe that have not heard the gospel whose language we don't know I'm thinking of that one specific little group in some island out East or west of much where it is But then also lumped in there is knowledge certainly knowledge has not ceased But all these are for a particular Thing which is to promote and push the gospel That's what I think those are for and so for me. What am I? I am just holding tight to the bible. I am a biblical Continuationist continuous to my thing. Hey, he's on our side not necessarily No, and the reason why I say I'm a biblical continuationist is this way I don't have to I don't have to push back against Some of the foolishness that we've seen we've seen people that will just say and do anything and say it's the holy spirit and so forth The gifts are the spirits all over me and just do all sorts of wild crazy things And that's not and so what would happen is there would be a natural pushback and what would happen is we would overcompensate So much so to say that these things Don't exist. Well, we don't have a scripture to state that we we just simply don't but guess what? We don't need a scripture to state that gifts have ceased All we need to do is use the scripture to determine if a person has a particular Gifting or if the spirit is moving upon them Well, then we judge it how by the scriptures And so if someone says that they can heal on command, okay fine I don't have a problem with you saying that at all But when you heal it needs to be biblical which Obviously we're going to talk about that the same thing with prophecy Same thing with tongues if it doesn't look like what the bible has it looking like And that's going to be key for what we're talking about today But if it doesn't resemble this Well, then we got a problem and you don't get to tell me how I that I have to take what you throw at me You can't tell people that listen what I did was just prophesy and it doesn't look like prophecy And again, one of the things that macArthur says it's not in this particular Clip but one of the things that he said in the past is that why is that so many people who are Exhibiting Exhibiting these gifts of the spirit. Why do so many of them have bad? Doctrine we don't see that in the bottom now you have to have perfect doctrine to be used by the spirit No, now that being the case. I want to make sure that we understand something when it comes to The move of the spirit Even when it was Paul Even when it was Peter when it was james or john Notice an ax 19 Look how luke writes as he says god was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of paul Yep, it happened by the hands of paul But ultimately who did it? God did it's just like someone say well that gun killed someone That that bullet that bullet went through that person. No someone someone behind it did it and so in this case It's god. It's always god. And so god ultimately is the one that will do the healing So for me and by the way, I believe that most Most cessationists also would agree with this as well That god still heals People aren't saying that healings don't take place. No one is I don't think very many people are saying that It's just this guy is saying that he's healing and wait a second that just doesn't look right And it took a long time. It didn't seem like it's right a matter of fact not even totally What we don't ever see is someone saying someone is healed and then not being healed that we never seen them I don't but anyway that being the case. Let's go and listen to a little bit of this clip We'll start and stop but they'll their act of the video clip is them Listening to john mccarthy and then they're going to rebut and so we're going to kind of give response and see Who is sticking to the scripture? I don't have a dog in the fight. I really don't I think that I think that's what What's what's a good? I think it's a good thing for for myself and you guys that we don't have a dog in the fight that I am not Uh, uh cessationists. I'm not this I'm not that nor am I in the continuations cap Whatever the scriptures say however it leads us Then let's go with that and I'll just say this Both make good points now their point is that john mccarthy is just totally wrong You know, he's not as a matter of fact one guy as well I take it back even in watching the video even in the chats that people some of people were complaining About maybe they were kind of disrespectful to mccarthy or mocking him and then they came one said well No, we're not or whatever. Well, we should be passionate, which is fine, which is fine But there's some things that you said that were said that was a little too overconfident on their part Where they're just wrong as well But let's go ahead and look at or listen to this particular clip First jesus healed with a word or a touch. It's all it took he touched he spoke they were healed Secondly jesus healed instantaneously never in all his healings does the bible say he healed somebody and they started getting better No, there was never a process because if there was a process the point wasn't made right Because if there was a process then it could be explained another way. It was instantaneous The centurion's servant was healed. I love it. Matthew 8 13 that very hour The woman with the bleeding problem. It went away Immediately jesus healed 10 lepers Instantaneously the crippled man at the pool of Bethesda immediately became well Thirdly jesus healed totally totally When someone was healed they were totally and completely healed the only kind of healing jesus ever did he didn't partially heal He healed totally fourthly. He healed anybody He healed anybody He didn't have to have a long line of people filling out cards And he certainly didn't have a whole group of people who came into the meeting in wheelchairs and left in wheelchairs If they had wheelchairs or crutches or whatever Luke 440 says while the sun was setting all he had any sick With various diseases brought them to him and laying his hands on every one of them He was healing them. It's an incredible thing. He healed everybody. He healed everybody instantaneously He healed everybody totally and he healed everybody with a word There wasn't some fault or all it's just a word Fifthly he healed organic disease. He didn't just go around palestine healing lower back pain heart palpitations headaches and other things like that He healed the most obvious organic disease crippled bent legs withered hands blind eyes paralysis Sixthly he raised the dead He raised the dead he came up on a funeral and he raised the dead remember that now before we go back to it What do you all think what what say you let me just read these things that he says that this was the pattern of jesus And I think he I think in this he makes a an error not necessarily with his list It will deal with his list, but just in how he how he's framing this but John macArthur says that that this is the pattern of jesus. This is how he did it And so we should compare those that are healing today with this pattern. He says number one Jesus healed by a word or touch What do you all do you all agree jesus healed instantaneously? Do you all agree jesus healed totally? Do you all agree jesus healed anyone not just specific ones in other words that he didn't have a Line anyone getting this line someone or how we see today $1,000 500 line would have you pay for this or that no anyone that's his point Five he healed the most obvious disease in infirmities in other words someone with a headache Someone with a toothache that wasn't who he was healing He was healing someone with a with a deformed arm someone who was blind someone who was paralyzed someone who was dead Which is the next thing that he said on number six. He raised the death So what do you all think about that that list do you agree that that is how jesus did it? so while you are Giving your answers. I'll play some more of it so you can hear A little bit more remember that here comes a funeral procession The widow's going to bury your son and jesus stops the profession the procession touches the casket and says young man Arise and the dead man sat up began to speak. I'll tell you something people who tout the gift of healing today Don't spend a lot of time in funeral processions The reason is obvious and you need to note by the way that jesus did virtually all his healing and raising the dead in public Before vast crowds of people Why because the gift of healing was real and it was an authenticating gift He used it to confirm the claim that he was the son of god in a way that displayed his power and Now that was something that i've always brought up and so i'm going to go ahead and tip my hat on one thing In that when we see healing there's i think two maybe three times probably two times That it just wasn't done in public. It was i mean that it was done in private other times all the other times It was done in public Why is that? Well, there's a reason why because when god wants to show his power There's a reason why he wants to show his power Are you with me? Randall brings the point that they're going to bring up. He says Not everyone was healed right away. Sometimes they had to go To get a bath in the river or to get up and start walking We're going to deal with that as a matter of fact they make a They make that assessment in one of theirs and we're going to ask we're going to look at the scripture and see Is that true? For example, we're on top of the 10 lepers. Were the 10 lepers healed 10 lepers the 10 lepers Healed immediately or was it a process? What about the man who was blind? And the first time he saw people walking around looking like trees But then the second time he could see what what about that or when jesus is talking to legion It seems to indicate that he's talking to them and just commanding legion over and over and over come out come out Come out come out come out. You know how you see some of the deliver deliverance ministry We're going to find out that that might not actually be the case But again, let's go back to this and compassion Then we asked the question. How did the the disciples or apostles heal? How did they heal? How did the 12 and the 70 and others who worked with them like barnabas and philip and steven? And those are the only ones it didn't just run rampant through everybody in the church But those people who had that gift. How did they heal? How did they do it? Well, same way they healed with a word or a touch. We see that in the book of acts They healed instantaneously Immediately remember the temple gate peter and john the man immediately went to his feet started leaping walking praising god They healed totally not partial total They healed everybody In fact people who got under peter shadow got healed. They healed organic disease not just functional psychosomatic Symptomatic problems and the apostles even raised the dead now nobody is exhibiting those six traits In a healing ministry today. So if this is supposed to be the recapturing of the apostolic era, it's really out of sync with that And a final note according to scripture those who possessed those Abilities to heal could use their gift at will well So what do you all think now? I want to go ahead and play the reaction and I think macarthur makes some good points But also when we listen to these to these three men They bring up some good points as well And there's some points where we can agree and some points that we we should discreet There's a point where I think that either or might be wrong. So Uh that being the case, let's go ahead and listen to that point one was that that god Jesus was used Jesus was used to heal the sick only by touch or when he spoke to them But then later on he goes and the apostle paul shadow healed people So like one of the requirements for it to be considered the gift of healing is that it be done by speech or touch And then he goes on to close with a thought that did not include either of those things John macarthur it says uh jesus's healing Healing is the is the pattern and the apostles is the past pattern. How did they heal? Now one thing that I will disagree with john macarthur on is that I would not have said that jesus the way he did it was the pattern He's the perfect example But also we have to remember that when jesus healed whenever jesus did something jesus would do it On his own terms it was his desire to do what it whatever was The reason why I say that now is because you'll see jesus will go through a crowd And there will be a lot of people that needed healing or needed something and jesus did not tend to every one One person got healed a person over there did not get healed There were times where people were uh were wanting to get healed and jesus moved away So that means there had to be a reason of purpose for so well since he's god he can determine Us or the apostles they don't have that luxury they can't determine Who gets healed and who not they could not heal on command that part is incorrect because we know There were people who they wanted to heal and couldn't get his a matter of fact paul himself Wanted to be healed whatever it was. He couldn't heal himself timothy trophemous There were people who could not be healed by the way It's also clear there were certain people all all believers at the time could not heal They called for peter to come to heal dorcas To heal her well peter could have just said Why don't you guys heal don't does anyone there have faith does anyone there have the holy spirit? No, and so we'll see that it seems to be that the power of god was moving obviously in a more mildly form In the holy i mean in the apostles and other people if you're one of those that think that the holy spirit The power and the presence of the holy spirit in you is at the same level that it is that or that it was in the apostles You're fooling yourself You don't have that ability your shadow has never healed anyone. So let's Understand there is a differentiation Jesus who was god Then the apostles and then us Was what were men used to also heal In the old testament as well. Yeah now are we to use and this is where I think that that macarthur might it might be mistaken on We cannot use jesus as the pattern As a matter of fact, we might not even want to use the apostles totally as a pattern totally We certainly don't want to use the old testament prophets as a pattern for example If we come across a dead body And we want to heal that dead body. Are we going to be like elijah and climb on top of this dead body Face to face hand to hand body to body No, if we see that we're probably going to think that something's wrong as a matter of fact We're going to tackle the person get off that dead body So Is that the pattern? Well, no Jesus is jesus's way of doing things a pattern. No We got grossed out when mike todd spit on his brother's face We would certainly get grossed out when jesus puts spit in someone's eyes or or puts his own spit on someone else's tongue So is that the pattern? Well jesus is doing some things a certain way as a matter of fact when we get to this issue of jesus and the man who Who is blind? He puts the the spit on his face And then he doesn't see immediately and then he sees later. We'll see why that happens There's a reason it's not like that that that god is just doing things Just because no there there are reasons to it And so I would agree with them to some degree that I well first of all I would not say that jesus has to be the pattern Now are the apostles the pattern as well? well Maybe maybe not let's let's see and i'll simply remind you of it We'll make a comparison and see if today it works like that So he's saying it does does today's miracles reflect the kind of miracles We see in the life of jesus and the apostles kind of want to turn it over to you guys Do you think that that is a good way to frame at this discussion? Well, it's it's not the best way I mean it's certainly relevant to look at the narratives of scripture See how they did it and try to apply it to us But if you take his same criteria and you apply it to other spiritual gifts Like let's say you take the gift of teaching you say well Jesus taught with authority not like the scribes of Pharisees and jesus drew multitudes of people to his teaching and Jesus always perfectly communicated the truth in love and jesus Always spoken with the fullness of the spirit and he never had any doctrinal error Which of us can say that in our teaching we've never ever ever ever had any doctrinal error What do you think about that? He says that if if macArthur is going to use Jesus as the guide That in his teachings, he was never wrong. There was never any error So we should use that also same thing with our if if if if jesus is the pattern for the for healing Then then his teaching is also a pattern for our teaching and since his teaching was without error Then our teaching for person has if a person has the gift of teaching They should never have any error Well, does that float? I'm going to say yes and no I see I see their point But in what you're teaching Uh, there are times I think that there could be times where on some things there there There is a gifting to where there is no error in it. For example on salvation Not the extent of salvation. I think some somebody can be off in terms of This whole issue of one saved always saved. I personally, I think that anyone's that teaches you lose your salvation They're often a lot of other areas as well That doesn't mean they're not saved they're not saved at all. They're not a christian By the way, I would also say that even though I tend to a lot of times disagree with cessationists I'm not going to say that cessations are not christian. I think that's wrong I think it's wrong for uh continuations to say the cessationists They don't really say that that cessationists aren't christians But they will say they don't have the holy spirit, which is the same thing And so and I deacon as a matter of fact, you're gonna hear you're gonna hear some more straw man Arguments, I think I think though truth be told a lot of times we'll hear straw man arguments on on both sides Now the guys make a a pretty good point Coming up here. So let's listen to this if you're gonna say that um continuationist use descriptive text I would say yes, but we also have we also have prescriptive text We have this text that says right do not forbid the speaking of tongues. We have a text that says earnestly desire prophecy We have a verse that says don't despise prophecy But to test everything we have all of these descriptive these prescriptive texts telling us what to do And then we have the book of acts showing us how it's done that this is taking It's not it's not an appropriate way of looking at a text He is taking a Uh descriptive text that describes the acts of the apostles in jesus and then is pulling out principles and prescriptively applying them to our Life and practice in fact the one is pentecostals will do this when it comes to Salvation in the book of acts will say look at all these people who spoke in tongues when they got saved Therefore salvation and tongues are inherently tied together. So they take so to hear his point. His point is basically that People on his side the sessionist will say we shouldn't take a descriptive text and make it prescriptive But is that what macArthur is doing where he's taking some texts that are descriptive And making them prescriptive well to a degree He is he's saying that since jesus did it this way then everyone else has to do it that way Well, he could be right Is it is it there where we see that? Jesus or the apostles say heal this way There are some gifts that we're told to do this way do it that way understand this way But when it comes to healing Can I just say something might blow your mind? You might think that I wouldn't think this or say this But if a person Says the lord told me to throw my shoe at that person over there and to hit him and that person will be healed You know what i'm gonna say, okay You want my shoe or I tell you what use your shoe because that guy if it doesn't work He's gonna beat you with that shoe. I would say this I don't care I really don't care what your methodology what your methodology is. You know why? Because that was not the standard for healing how you did the healing Wasn't the issue how it was brought about was never the issue the issue was the result That's all I think anyone really cares about if you're going to say You have that you've got the ability to heal or God is working you to heal somebody We don't care how you do it Whether you pray over them whether you touch them whether you do it at a distance whether you wave a handkerchief over them Whether you put arms around whether the entire church comes and touches them. What have you If healing if the result of it wasn't a healing Well, then guess who lied guess who's wrong So if you threw the shoe at that guy it hit him and instantly he was healed Hey, man. Wow. Guess what we got we've got a story to tell about we've got some shouting to do all that So no one is really bothered at the fact that you say you heal this way People are bothered the fact that you say you heal and no one gets healed That is the issue now We're going to deal with this issue of who was getting healed because again We don't believe that people aren't getting healed by God. God does heal He does it for his benefit for his glory when he wants to But then necessarily we also have to have to talk about Who God heals? Can I ask you guys a question just while we're thinking? Who are the ones that tend to get healed? in the bible Just think for a second. Just just take your time and just think for a second When we look at the bible and we start looking at the people that got healed Really you talk matter of fact. We didn't see any healings. Um prior to um After Abraham so we didn't see any healings But think about the people who got healed You know what? Let me just put some of your answers on the on the screen I see one one answer. I think is is true David says those with faith prime time says the jews Maddie says the poor Jeff said those who trust in him prime But I see Cindy she says unbelievers Uh Sheila says the unsaved Katrina says those who had faith Now I want you guys to do me a favor Whatever you said now again, this is the pattern of this channel. This is what we try to try to push So every time that we listen to it That we come together on this channel now I know it's being it's being Simultaneously streamed on the other channel But there's a reason for both of them because I am remember I said before that With the two channels there are going to be times where the two the two discussions or topic might kind of cross So if we're giving a response Uh to what someone says But there's a a greater biblical teaching. That's where the two can come Okay By the way, if you haven't subscribed to the other channel, please do so. I would appreciate that But We are to when we make a statement just like what I've been trying to emphasize this and push this in the bible study Earn the statement Don't just say it earn the statement So when we look at the scriptures, can anyone give me one scripture? Where or multiple scriptures if there are Where a follower of christ Was healed I want you to think about for a second Because don't we typically see and there might be some but don't we typically see the person that is being healed as an unbeliever Isn't that who we typically see healed the one example? We're not sure how much a follower she was But we see peter's mother-in-law Being healed We don't know anything about her so we can we can speculate But we keep seeing jesus going to these people who are not followers of him Who are being healed Whereas his followers I'm pretty sure they need healing think about a trove from us timothy paul They needed some healing. They didn't get it. Paul have a holy spirit paul is healing people couldn't heal himself It's like a dentist with bad teeth. You got the ability to help someone else's teeth, but yours are crooked Paul you couldn't do it So the point the point was i'm saying you're right. You're right. Dorcas was a believer Dorcas was and so one They're calling and they call for peter. I think which makes a bigger point, but we don't see the pattern of Jesus or the apostles going to heal other people Yeah, peter's mother-in-law, but again, we don't know what she was. I'll I'll assume that she is a healer I'll assume that she is a believer But the point is the overwhelming majority of people in the bible that were healed were not followers of christ But they got healed And then whenever jesus did something or even the apostles did something what happened to the size of the crowd The crowd kept following remember the reason why jesus had to feed four thousand and feed five thousand people Why because he was healing people and folks came out no jesus didn't go to the hospital and Turned the hospital out folks in the hospital started following him Same thing with the apostles. Well, we don't see that today We see people signing up and spending money to go to a crusader go to some sort of Convention or have you to be healed and there is the reason for the big pushback That's the reason for it. And so I do think though that we should avoid try to make something that is Descriptive into being prescriptive so to say that jesus had to do it this way Now does that mean that that believers can't get healed sure they can get healed Interestingly enough though, there is a passage That is brought up often And it's just wrong It's wrong as a matter of fact they brought it up as well But it's just wrong how they do it You've heard this passage before by his stripes. We are healed I want to go to this passage. This is an old testament passage. Then we're going to see it in the new testament We'll make a statement And then Some folks are going to be aghast and say no core. You're wrong And then I'll go through the passage that they're thinking about and then come back and explain it So in Isaiah 53 Let's go to verse four It's verse four Yeah Surely our griefs he himself bore And our sorrow sorrows he carried we yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken smitten of god and afflicted But he was pierced Through four hour transgression. He was crushed for our iniquities the chastising of a four hour well-being fell upon him And by his scourging we are healed or by his stripes. We are healed People are going to say that That's how we know his his death made it possible for us to be healed Well, a couple things first of all, or what about the folks that were healed before him his death? Well, how are they healed? They weren't healed by his stripes is even having stripes at that time. He wasn't punished and beaten at that time But where people want to go to is so well, no this clearly demonstrates that this shows that we were that Physical healing comes about as a result of this passage And so wherever they go, they will go to Matthew chapter 8 guys. This does not this passage Let me say this again. You're gonna fight me, but we've covered this before Hear me out This passage in Isaiah 53 is not saying that because of this we can be healed now we can be healed but not because of this passage Let me continue In Matthew 8 let's start in verse 14 when Jesus came to Peter's home. He saw his mother-in-law Lying sick in a bed with a fever. He touched her hand and the fever left her and she got up and waited on him Sounds like a physical healing to me Okay, verse 16 when even came they brought to him many who were demon possessed He cast out spirits with the word and healed all who were ill So he's healing some people This was uh, this was to fulfill what was spoken through isaia the prophet He himself took our our infirmities and carried away our disease So it seems like Cory you're wrong because you just said This passage is fulfilling that isaia passage where they were healed No, it's not. What do you mean Cory? We just read this. Let's go back to isaia 53 Some of y'all know where I'm where I'm going with this. Let's start in matter of fact. Let's start in verse one Let's start in verse one Who has believed our message? By the way, this very same passage is brought up by paul in romans This passage means something different than people are don't pay attention to And to whom has the arm of the lord been revealed? I want you to notice the tense of the verbs being used here in isaia 53 their past tense For he grew up Before him like a tender shoot And like a root cut out of parched ground He has no stately form or majesty that we should look upon him No appearance that we should be attracted to him He was notice the tense he was despised and forsaken past tense of men a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief And like one from whom men hid there or hide their face He was despised past tense and we did not esteem him again past tense verse four Surely our griefs he himself bore he bore our griefs past tense and our sorrows he carried past tense Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken past tense Smitten of god and afflicted by the way Why are the past tense being used in isaia when jesus had not yet there had not been any any incarnation He was not born yet. He had not lived a perfect life in this incarnation. He was not crucified He was not resurrected. He had not ascended to the side of the father yet here in isaia isaia Is speaking past tense none of this has happened Verse five, but he was pierced through past tense for our transgression had that happened yet in in 53 No, he was crushed for our iniquities that hadn't happened yet The chastising of our peace well being failed past tense upon him by his by his scourging We are healed or by his stripes Why is this passage being brought up in matthew eight and what's the point of it in isaia 53? We've covered this before so I won't I won't belabor this point Isaia is prophesying To the jews about what is going to happen after um or in the tribulation The jews who god is then going to deal with these jews is going to cause them with their hearts pricked and turned They will look back And all the things that is being stated here in isaia They will remember Why is that important going back to matthew eight seventeen says this was to fulfill what was spoken So they'll look back and say yeah, jesus did go through and heal The reason why I was looking past tense and they'll say this in the past tense because Because of this prophecy for them and they'll be able to point back to these different healings So the passage here is not saying that because he died We can all be physically healed We can all be physically healed But not because of this passage We can all be physically healed if god desires for us to be physically healed Whether it's at the hand of a man whether it's at the hand of a doctor whether it's through prayer whether it's supernatural However, god desires to heal. We will be healed if god says nope You ain't getting healed. Guess what you ain't getting? I don't care how the doctor if I've got a Need of surgery. I don't care how he does it as long as as long as it is effective I don't care if I went to this clinic or that hospital. What have you or this doctor that doctor As long as the doctor graduated with honors I don't need the doctor graduating from junior college With a C average and now they run they're in need of help and he's operating on me. No, I need somebody with some skill so Let's just be clear Healing is his priority Not ours in this regard. John mccarthur would be wrong when he says that they that they would heal on command They did not heal on command. They could not heal on command. Number one. You could not command god to do anything Number two, we see examples of them wanting to heal and not healing Are you with me? So now When we get sick, there's another passage that's brought up as well as a matter of fact I had a person kind of say this to me kind of in a snarky fashion Doing a doing a recent debate. He says anyone among you suffering Well, this the question is this word suffering or sick is this physical sick or is this of a spiritual nature? Is this of a spiritual nature or physical? The problem is if this what I'm getting ready to say is physical Houston we got a problem. Here's why If you're suffering then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises if is any among you sick This word sick that he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him Anointing him with oil in the name of the lord and the prayer offered in faith So the prayer of them not the prayer of us or the person that's sick So you can't come back and say well, you don't have enough faith. Well, no, you got faith pray over me This is what I asked the person who So voluntarily wanted to tell me that he wrote his doctor dissertation on this and so I I wouldn't be able to stand a chance in arguing him on this point, buddy Is how we phrased it that's fine. That's fine So my point to him and anyone else is if you are you wrote your doctor dissertation over this and you've got all this faith How come you aren't healing people? Because that's not what this pointed that's not the point of james What was james? What the whole point of james is dealing with salvation It's not dealing with and even in chapter five as well as a matter of fact We use this point we flesh this point out when we got to verses 19 and 20 I won't go there though. But anyway, he says The prayer offered in faith will restore And the greek word is so say which means this is future it will happen That means that means yes dr. Brown that means That this would be if it's for a physical healing If this is for physical healing Then this is a guaranteed promise. They will be restored. I mean they they're they're i'm sorry The faith the prayer offered in faith will restore or bring them and actually the word restore is the word for save is so say Will save them The one who is sick and the lord will raise him up and if he has committed sin So now what does it sound like he's talking about? It sounds just like he's talking about a spiritual illness The prayer that's offered in faith. Well, you pray in faith Regarding salvation you will definitely be saved But you pray in faith to be healed ask paul Paul wasn't definitely healed So that being the case guys That's the issue Now again, let's be clear God heals he healed then he healed then and he heals today and he'll heal in the future God will always heal Who he will heal and how he will heal It varies It varies I'll never forget this And I I've seen something like this happen to me where I had a pain And then I got kicked real hard In the leg where the pain was And after that I had no more pain. Yeah the part where he kicked me hurt a little bit but after that I had no more pain. Well, maybe the kicking jarred something back in the socket or something. I don't know I I don't know unconventional as it will But still I was healed Do I think that god had something to do with that? I I think that god has something to do with just about everything So therefore, yes Yes Could there be an unconventional way of healing? Well, absolutely again, you tell somebody to go dip themselves in the river A dirty river at that That's unconventional most of what god does oftentimes. Hey god is unconventional So that being the case I do I do agree with them that being making a descriptive tech prescriptive even if you are Reformed or even if you're a Calvinist or even your southern Baptist Even if even if you got what we would consider to have sound doc Not that I'm a Calvinist or southern Baptist would have your mouth not reform But if there's someone that you think has sound doctrine, they can be wrong They can be wrong All right, so uh, they bring up something else. So though remember MacArthur brought up that the person is healed by word or touch. Well, they're not always necessarily healed by word of touch because Paul's I mean Peter's shadow does heal some people and so and then other folks by handkerchief So not always not always so on that most cases though They're healed by word of touch But again, I don't know why that's even an important point to harp on Whether someone is healed by a word or by touch or any other method The issue is saying that you heal someone and then are they actually healed Because what we're going to what we're going to have to start doing and I would pray that even the guys over at remit rate Who I think are more thoughtful care at their charismatic I think they're more thoughtful, but at the same time they have a lot of error I'm just I'm sorry to say I think they have a lot of error But one of my biggest issues with them people like them is is their Inability or their desire not to hold people's feet to the fire. They say they do they'll have them on But at some point in time you need to call for example the isaias how those bars of the world you are wrong and or a liar So we need to treat him such Instead of taking some of his clips and playing his clips on your on your channel as shorts Don't do that. This person Does things in an unbiblical fashion Whether it's intentional or unintentional the effect is the same Same thing with the begon is you you even call the guy out for his false for his false prophecies But you wouldn't label him as a false prophet. Why not? Why not that's the point so the person's walking around by the way I believe this you don't have the gift of anything It is the Holy Spirit working in you who will do will it will gift you to do certain things And it's not a uh, well Once the gift of healing always get the healing I heal a person this day and so the It's gonna always be there dog going. This is my healing hand. I can look at this bad boy. I can heal whomever Come here boy. Let me know that that's not how that works That is not how that works Again, we see examples of them not healing or being able to heal people in the bottom. Hey, I tell you what timothy I know you got this bad stomach ache and I healed some people in the past but I was going in my healer ain't working my healer ain't working. So In the meantime until I get it worked up. I don't know. I might need a new battery in it I need to recharge or something rest it a little bit in the meantime Take a little wine for your stomach So what do you tell me timothy? I mean paul go go to the grocery store and get some some no No, so again, it's always got up to god to do the healing Now that being the case they also deal with this issue the second point that Okay, let me let me ask this question. I just happened to see something says quarry. I think I think quarry you are getting things mixed up There's a difference between what charlatans believe as the gift of healing and what truly pertains No, I might get anything mixed up. I'm not listen. I've I've I've been I've been in this for a long time I've seen the charlatans by the way Oftentimes the so-called legitimate people don't call them out Or distance themselves But it's not it's not the obvious charlatans It's not the obvious charlatans that we have a problem with It's the subtle charlatans. What's the difference for them between an obvious charlatan and a subtle charlatan? nothing Just how they how they move the clothes they wear their mannerisms And they'll bring up people like the sam storms the word who's wrong We cover something that he said remember sam storm Was the person that that brought up this whole issue with the holy spirit and folks Not having that, you know, I won't even bring that up But you'll you'll tout him There's a whole league of people Who have refuted them Refuted the the sam storms of the world now What about this guy, uh, who's got who uh, oh lord my mind just went blank Uh, caneer with his book of miracles again. No one is no one is denying these miracles Now there's a part about the miracles that I'm sorry. We we we want something because Is it true? Do you think it's do you think it's necessary for us to see the gifts? That it's necessary for us to see the healings I want you all to think about this for a second No, bro. I wouldn't I would not say that sickness comes from the devil No, I wouldn't I wouldn't say that remember Jesus healed a blind man and they asked him Lord Who sinned who why is he why is he blinding? Jesus said it wasn't his sin and wouldn't know But that my glory so God had this man to be to be blind Why so that he Could get glory So remember Sometimes we we give too much credit to the devil And by the way, whatever the devil can do he can only do so because of the allowance of the lord And in some cases by being sent by the lord, that's just how it is. That's biblical So sickness is going to come from somebody. We are all going to die. It's appointed unto man wants to die So most people are not going to die by Getting shot falling off a ladder. Most folks are not going to die in a traffic accident Most of us are going to die because of some health related issues Heart might stop blood might not pump kidneys might not work Don't know Even me My goal my plan I've been praying on this y'all help me out y'all pray me pray me in the spirit on this But I want to my goal is to 128 why 128 course? So that could say that I lived in the the the 20th century the 21st century and and made to the 22nd century So I'll say that 1900s to the 2000 20 thousands and 2100 You know how You know how I'm gonna look at age 128 Just like I look now. Yeah Anyway But um I don't care if a person is a charlatan or not I don't care if a person means well or they have bad motives If a person claims to have this gift of healing and they don't heal well, guess what they are false or a liar There's just no way around that friend and A person's reluctance to call that out Makes us say I've got to call your discerning or your heart in question Not in a bad way But that you've got a dog in the fight and you won't listen to anything. That's actually true Because you want this to be true Let me just say this. I don't care um How healthy I am obviously I want to be healthy. I want my family to be healthy But ultimately The word of God and being with him is the most important thing So if I die Guess what I get I get rewarded If I keep living If I keep living Then do you know how many cults superbows I want to see A bunch. You know what I mean? Cowboys superbows I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I live to be 128 So let me all good one way or the other one way or the other I'm gonna be fine Whether I live or die like Paul said for me to live as Christ and die is game to live That's Christ. I can serve the Lord if I die. That's a game. That is a game I would thank you all I have been paying attention Um to the super chats. Thank you all so much you've been giving. I'm sorry I was on a spiritual role I'm sorry and uh the angelo sanders is the angelo sanders. I'm sorry is Haiti, but it's okay though. It's okay. It's okay But they have a disagreement with mccarthur on it being instantaneous I would also say there's a number of other ways that he healed and one of the other examples He gave was the 10 lepers and what he fails to do is recognize that they weren't healed instantly He's he takes that as the example of people that were healed instantly, but it didn't say that As they went I mean like I know like how I just the irony there is he's he's literally the opposite point lying like he's just just wrong He doesn't know what he's talking about Um, yeah, it proves just the opposite of his of the point he's making Okay, so the john mccarthur lies he wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about I mean, okay, you can just read john mccarthur, but it's not like for me that nobody's talking about Now he might know what he's talking about, but but have a wrong conclusion about it But let's go look at the 10 lepers. Let's just see Were they healed? Instantaneously now you all know the story before we go there before we go there. Do you all don't turn to your bibles? Just yet. I want let's just use the honor program the honor system How many of you all think that the lepers Were not healed instantaneously But then they were healed over a period of time in other words as they were walking That's how they got healed so the more the more they walk the more they got healed. How many you all believe that? I just want to I just want to see in the chats How many you all believe that as they said on the radio that the healing took place as a process not not instantaneously, but progressively Most people say well no as as they were going because that's that seems to be what the passage says Well, let's let's go. Let's let's go to it and let's see and you know, we don't have to do We don't have to even look at the greek Matthew 17 12 as the enter the village 10 lepers men Who stood at a distance met him? And they raised their voices saying jesus master have mercy on us by the way Did you want to know why they stood at a distance? Well, they had to they were not allowed to be up on anybody These are lepers people Okay, they're they're jews and they have rules and regulations unless they get beaten stone So they're at a distance So jesus he could as a matter of fact, there's one leper's person that he does lay his hands on but these guys Amongst his crowd they they are at distance and they said have mercy on us Verse 14 when when he saw them he said to them Go and show yourselves as a priest. Why would he do that? Well, because you have to show yourself to the priest To show that you are healed And as they were going they were cleansed Now it does say as they were going It and and the word let me just bring up to greek anyway. The word is uh hypo game This is a present active infinitive So He says social distancing. You're right. That was social distancing back down there and caught that that's pretty good Here's my question When did jesus heal them? That's my question When did jesus actually heal the lepers? In other words what i'm saying is this When did you say all right be healed? When did you say you know what? All right, you're healed Think about it. He never did did he he never did say You're healed bam right here Katie says go show yourself to the to the to the priest Now second thing When were they actually healed? We don't know that either We know two things. He says go show yourself and they went walking. When do they notice it? We don't know We don't know because the way this is by the way, this is just grammatical fraying of it. However it is how It could have been that to state that I turn and my first step. I'm healed That's still in keeping with as they were going how many feet how many steps did they take before they were healed? Could have been one could have been a half a step Which would be instantaneous the point is we don't know exactly when jesus healed them He could have said now all right y'all get go on get get to walking and as they started walking then jesus says all right You're healed bam We don't know so you can't make the point You can't make the point from the time that they turned to the time that they noticed it Sometime in between there and we don't even know how long a time that was that could have been five seconds Remember where they were they were not right beside jesus not like okay here They are right here the same distance between me and this microphone turn around I started walking got out of sight No, they were already over there. Anyway, they were already there So we don't know so you can't make this point to say it wasn't done instantly Are you with me? So and it seemed to be pretty quick because Now one of them when he saw that he had been healed turned back glorifying god with a loud voice. I don't know that that he made it too far But again Thank you. Lovely for the super sticker. But again, here's the point And this is the main point I don't think that anyone cares now macArthur might care. I don't care if it's instantaneous or if it's in five minutes Who cares? What we do know It was complete. It was thorough Which gets to his third point that he says that it's that it was total Now there is another point that I need to go ahead and bring up. I'll go ahead and bring it up now because For for lack of time. I'll go ahead and do it right now. Y'all recall the story of the blind man Who it seems like he got healed in phases two phases, right? Did it take two phases? What was going on? Why why why was that going on because now remember Jesus the one that determines sickness come out When jesus says come out when it's when he says it it's done now. So I'm gonna say wait a second. Wait a second Wait a second. Cory. What about those? What about legion? It seemed like he kept saying to the demon come out come out come out come out come out And they did Oh contraire will come to that in just a second But again guys remember We do not want to act like What's happening in the bible is just happening It's not like some hollywood writer who just wrote this in not a real reason It's just kind of just to add to it. No, there's a reason for these things happening. So let's go to mark chapter 8 and let's look at verse 14 And they had forgotten to take bread and did not have these disciples and did not have more than one loaf in the boat with them And he was giving orders to them saying watch out beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of herod They confused they began to discuss with one another the fact that they had no bread And jesus aware of this said to them notice what he says Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? What do y'all back here talk about? Do you not yet see or understand? This is important. Listen to what jesus is saying. Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? Having eyes. Look what he says. Do you not see and having ears? Do you not hear what's getting ready to happen next? Oh a guy who has eyes and doesn't quite see well Look what he's going to say though and look what happens though And do you not remember when I broke the five loaves or the five thousand? How many baskets full of pieces you picked up? They said to him 12 when I broke the seven for the four thousand How many large baskets of broken pieces you picked up and they said to him seven? And he was saying to them. Do you not yet understand? Y'all don't get it. It don't get it And they came to Bethsada. This is why this is next and they brought a blind man to Jesus and implored him to touch him Taking the blind man by the hand. He brought him out of the village Now we don't know if there was a crowd following We don't know he just says that he took him out of the out of the village After spitting on his eyes and laying his hands on him He asked him do you see anything and he looked up and said I see men for I see them like trees walking around Then he said then he laid his hands on his eyes and he looked intently and was restored and began seeing everything clearly And he sent to his home saying do not even enter the village. So the question is the question has to be Was this an instantaneous healing Well, he said this and then he did that and then that So I guess depending on what your definition of instantaneous is Fine. No, it's the moment that he put the ladies hands on the first time with the spit and mud and so forth No, that was an instant Again, I don't care if it's instant or in five minutes. I don't and I'm pretty sure the blind guy didn't either But was there a purpose for this? Because his disciples are seeing this there's a purpose the first time having eyes you don't see And then so what happens after that he touches him and now he can see He's trying to make a point With that by the way, I see I see a video coming soon. I see a video coming soon with this So he's trying to make a point That the disciples just aren't getting because remember what is Jesus also doing while he's dealing with them And he's showing sign to unbelievers. What does he also do? He's also training These 12 or really 11 men who are going to as their enemies say Turn the world upside down. He's trying to get them to see and it took up to and after his death to get the point It took them up to and after Jesus death to get what Jesus was saying Which sometimes that that's the way with us and someone's going to say what about what about legion What about do I have where is where's legion at? Uh, yeah, here it is No, I'm sorry. What one more passage Actually, I'll hold it. I'll hold that I'll hold that Uh, where is the one about legion? Do I have it? I don't have it marked up here. Do I? Well dog going Uh, and do I even have it? Uh I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll I'll come back to legion. I'll come back to legion because they're going to bring it up anyway. So um, I think that they that Yeah, if you want to bring up this issue about it being instantaneous I don't think that's a big issue either because again the issue with The false fake healers isn't that they're healing isn't instantaneous. It's that it's nonexistent That's the bigger problem I would also say there's a number of other ways that he healed and one of the other examples That he gave was the 10 lepers and what he fails to do is recognize that they weren't healed instantly He takes that as an example of people that that's the same one now He's going to mention this other this other passage that I just brought up about the mud He says something that's weird and I've been searching. I just don't see it. Maybe maybe I got to get a new bible I got this guy got to be better at at studying. Thank you, Michael. I appreciate that I thank you for super chat But listen to what one of the guys I think his name is josh. I think it's his name He makes tabing them. Where'd you get this from? Jesus didn't heal only by speech and touch And that there was right Yeah, in order the apostles and I made this point earlier, right? So jesus threw mud in some guys eyes and john nine verse six shadow literally baseball chunked it like probably 95 97 miles per hour I mean, if you had a clogged picture, I would imagine if he's jesus He's never thrown an imperfect pitch. But but you know what now my question is I don't Jesus threw the mud. I looked at the examples. I don't see him from I don't know what version you're looking at But if the versions I have that he's he's anointing He's placing the mud on the hands on the person and so I don't see that being the case I don't I don't That part I'm not that important But anyway, but he talks about it. It needed to be a process There was never a process because if there was a process the point wasn't made, right? Because if there was a process then it could be explained another way It was instantaneous the centurion servant was healed. I love it. Matthew 8 13 that very hour the woman with the bleeding problem It went away instantly. Jesus healed the 10 lepers instantly. I don't know why he used that one I was such a bad example now in luke 17 11 through 19 You have the story of the 10 lepers that john mccarthur quotes here and in that story It says they went away and as they were going away They realized that they'd been healed and one comes back to worship, right? So it's his process of healing and in mark chapter 8 22 through 26 Jesus brings this guy outside the city lays hands on him, right? It's the mud throwing story that I brought up earlier He pitches mud into this guy's eyes and then you know, he's like, hey, what do you see? He's like men as trees walking and then he prays a second time, right? And then he receives his sight fully. So in both of these accounts You have a progressive and non instantaneous healing. So Jesus doesn't even fit the description of healing that mccarthur once Okay, so now I want to bring up this this passage. This is in What I wanted Let me use one of the passages I've already used. Let's go to mark. I'm sorry that mark luke luke Was it 8 8 26? I believe? Yeah There's something they bring up about that Jesus has to keep saying over and over and over and over again So let's go to this passage luke 8. Uh, let's drop down Okay, verse 28 seeing Jesus that's lesion these demons because The demons have a the demons have a specific relationship with um Jesus Jesus created He's got they recognize it. So they say Jesus verse 28 Um, what business do you have with each of us? Jesus son of the most high god? I beg you do not torment me. That's the he's the demons For he had commanded the unclean spirits to come out Some versions might say he had been commanding I'm gonna get to that in a second for it had seized him many times And he was bound with chains and shackles and kept under guard and yet Uh, he would break his bonds and be driven by the demons into the desert and he's asked him. What is your name? legion For many had entered him Now this question, um Okay, I just want to make sure I didn't I didn't not read anything that I should have read So here's this point right here in Jesus Uh, okay, here it is. He had commanded Now Okay, this is giving me the heiress tense. So Jesus had commanded the unclean spirits to come out of the man Now another version might say I think it's mark say mark five. Let's look at mark five There's a reason why I'm going to both of these mark five. Here it is as well Mark five There's a tense of a verb that they they that they park on And I they do so incorrectly. So in mark five The same story Is brought up and then when he meets Jesus again, he says what business do you have with with each other? Jesus son of the most high god, I implore you by God do not torment me for he had been here It is for he had been saying Now this one is not in the heiress tense. This is in the uh, the uh imperfect active indicative The imperfect tense is is kind of it it would be used to kind of harken back. This is what I was doing Now it doesn't tell you how long The imperfect active indicative does not tell you how long just that I did this And it was in a as a it was an active tense So it could be to convey that he had told him this and so you would use this this to kind of say This is what he was doing Doesn't mean this is you cannot take this to mean You possibly could but but this you don't have the license considering the other passage to say that He was constantly begging him Commanding him to come out. Yeah, he began to say he could be taken that way. So that's how this is taken What they do is they say well, no, see he was he was constantly saying come out come out come out come out come out That is not what was going on Oh, just like you see with some of these uh, the demon slayer folks that come out come out come out and then ask him his name No, that is not what's happening here And so they are wrong. As a matter of fact, they also go to another passage We might not get to it. So I'll go ahead and jump to it When I saw one of the guys bring this up one of the demon slayer guys brings up about how Sometimes you call something out and happen instantaneously Just like when jesus healed the centurions Serving and they point to matthew 8 13 Jesus said hint to yeah your your servant is going to be healed and jesus said in verse 13 To the centurion go it shall be done For you as you have believed And the servant was healed from that very moment now some say one of the guys said that It was within the hour that is not how that's taken. This is this this means Um at that moment he was healed. That's just how that's just live. That's literally what it means It's kind of how it it's the way of that's their way of saying at that moment He was healed, which is why why this translation has like that. It says ain't a aura a cane a cane, which is In or at the hour that That's not to say well sometime after within 60 minutes it happened. That is not what that means Anyone that takes it that way, uh go grab you a greek book and start reading some more That's not what that means That is not what that means At that time and oh by the way when the when the guy goes back like hey, what what when was he healed? That's when he was oh wow Jesus is awesome Because again, he's doing with these with these people who he's establishing Something that he is that he asks authority because remember Jesus makes a statement. He says Um, they got mad at him for healing someone on the on the Sabbath. He says Um, and he's comparing it whether it be the son of man or that I have authority So that you know that the son of man has authority to heal Check me out so to speak so That being the case. I want to play this. He says That not all were healed. Well I'm not sure what point the remnant radio guys are making off of this I would say not only did Jesus not heal everyone completely and totally gosh josh He gave some great examples of him healing some people Gradually and uh, not totally at first Okay, but in addition there are times when he heals not at all Okay, matthew 13 he did not do many miracles in his hometown because of their unbelief even jesus was In his humanity limited by the faith or lack thereof in his hometown This is where they're just missing the point They're missed the point is not that he healed everybody on the plan or everyone he's ever come in contact John mccarthy's not making that point. You guys go too far with it Everyone that he meant to heal He healed That's the point that now listen last point that he makes about it John doesn't mention those people and so to say that every single person was healed totally and immediately. What about not at all? Yeah That that's a problem That is a problem because he makes a statement. I don't know if he says it on the next clip or not that He he kind of impunes Uh, maybe because in his limited because he was limited In his human form that he that he could not at that time. Well, no man This is where he makes mention about legion and then there is the garrison demoniac and it's told in Matthew mark and luke and in uh, at least in mark's version Uh, it's garrison or gatorain depending on which gospel you're in But uh, anyway, it it says that he this was the legion story where he cast like the 2000 demons into the pigs Or well, it's really 2000 pigs and I assume that many demons anyway a legion and uh, its name is legion And it says that he was commanding the demons to leave when he said what is your name? The implication is that jesus was in an on and it's not just an implication. It's just what it means It's what it the verb tense that's used there doesn't it doesn't say jesus commanded but was commanding this So so over a period of time Jesus is saying come out of this person or something like that And then he says after it doesn't succeed at first Then he says what is your name and that's where they're wrong This is why I say guys, it's it's just really helpful If when people are within make-up stores now, he's the one that brings up the Uh, the verb tense and so forth like no, that's not what it's saying at all, brother That's not what it's saying at all. Thank you ricky people. So I appreciate that It's not what he's saying at all and this is where it would be it'd be beneficial And so keeping in track with what he said He uh, that jesus healed by word of touch. Well not always and so I guess point to the to the permanent radio guys on that one instantaneous Yeah, it yeah, it was instantaneous. I would say it was instantaneous But it doesn't really matter. So I don't think anyone necessarily gets a point for that Healed totally. Yeah, he did he healed totally all the time when jesus when god says you're healed You are healed. It's not that you know, I still have a My my my bone was sticking out. I still have my bone sticking Well, you healed that but I said no, I don't have a pain anymore There's no residual after when god heals. He heals totally and then healed anyone not this was that's just that's not even a good argument To bring up that god didn't heal everybody Everyone that he meant to heal everybody meant to heal He healed um And then this one that he brings about this most the most obvious infirmities I'll give them The remnant radio guys a point for that They I would say they were right on that because with that There were people who were healed Who did not have the most obvious in other words. He didn't only heal people Who who were blind or heal people who were paralyzed He also healed people who in peters mother-in-law's case She's had a fever So it's not just that only but also um Raising the dead will come to the raising the dead part but I want to let them tell you tell us about some of their I guess you would call these anecdotal stories about their healings One of the stories was I was in an airport with him and there was a blind man And whimper extended his hand toward the blind man without even touching him and said See and the man immediately saw and started freaking out That's what dear told me. Did you ever tell you that story miller? I remember Michael Do you remember we were in fargo north dakota doing a conference and I remember calling a woman out and saying I feel like you have issues with your eyes and that god wants to heal you and the next day This other woman came up not the woman. I was talking to a different one Say when you said I feel like god wants to heal you It was like somebody took a bucket of hot liquid and poured it over my head She said I had been in a car accident and got a concussion And for two years I've been seeing double But when you said those words this liquid just fell into my face and all of a sudden I could see clearly and have and it was completely healed Now notice this first of all he talks about the woman Who um is praying for praying for this woman though this problem praying for this woman You're not you're not even totally sure but you're praying for this woman But this other one gets healed Well that person got healed as a result of god you have no gift of healing That's the point That's that's really the point now. I want to I want to show someone pull up something that he talks about This is what all healings should do about the apostles is their healing We don't have any statement that says and cessationists love to say that the uh, that they quote sign gifts Not used in the bible that language, but the quote sign gifts were to authenticate the apostles as trustworthy teachers of doctrine Give me a verse that says that not one verse in the bible says that the signs and wonders were given To authenticate the apostles themselves They say rather that they were given to point to jesus and so jesus did signs to point to his identity as the son of god The apostles did signs to point not to their identity But to jesus's identity as the son of god so both perform miracles for the same reason They were signs to point to jesus's identity Is it not still relevant that jesus is the son of god? Do we not still want to point people to that reality? Now his point is that these sign gifts that we're seeing all over the world. That's pointing people to jesus Others point would be that no the word is pointing people to jesus Which is greater Now they make the argument that there are less and less cessationists and there are more and more Continuations or more and more charismatic As though that's a feather in their cat. That's a check on their side. No, it's not No, it's not How do I know so because paul, you know paul with more holy spirit power than the one we've met Tells us the time will come when people not endure sound doctrine So if we see more and more people that are adhering to A doctrine and make no mistake about it the charismatic movement is the largest and fastest growing movement within the the christian community And it's fraught with bad teaching with frauds I tell you what you do you go and find 10 of the greatest biblical frauds on the planet Or you pick a city you pick a state you pick a country. I mean someone that's lying to people With the scripture that's twisting the scriptures That are claiming false whatever that god has done for them If not all the overwhelming majority are going to be charismatic now I'm not impugnant because I've got a lot of charismatic friends who I love. I know they love the lord and so forth But we're talking about the the group that has the biggest amount of problems I don't think that we should do that. We should see that then just give an automatic pushback to where we say that god Didn't move at all. I think that's wrong to say that god is not moving at all because we're looking at this person Well, okay fine that that'd be like saying well because A man did something wrong. We're gonna just Not deal with any man all men are bad, which by the way seems like some folks are doing nowadays, but If we look at that particular movement You start seeing the things that we talk about and complain about the things that we're saying you guys ought to be policing even more so instead of giving them a platform instead of Coddling them instead of promoting them Those very same people the various, you know, the folks that are paint that are charging folks to become prophets It's charismatic the one that the ones that are giving these fake tongues Charismatic the ones that are giving these fake healings and people fake folks being raised from the dead Charismatics Yeah, those folks Now does that mean that they're the only ones that that have sin? No people who are not charismatic Sessions also have problems. There are sensations that have that have had affairs or sensations that have um Killed somebody problem. There are sensations that have done the same sort of sins that you might find In sensations camps, you'll find in continuations camps and those in between But when we talk about doctrine bad doctrine and and doing things to Pervert the gospel and pervert the church What kind of church are they? What are the churches that we see the most egregious examples of unbiblical behavior when we think about a Transformation church charismatic TD jakeson's daughter charismatic I mean come on. Let's let's let's just let's just be honest guys and so If that's what we need to promote the gospel, we're not promoting the gospel No wonder then while though, it's the fastest growing segment in the christian community No wonder then the church is shrinking No wonder less and less people are showing up at church. Maybe that's the point Because you're gonna tell me that all of this stuff trumps the word of god is is is that what someone is really gonna tell me I have to beg to differ and I would have to listen. Let's have a conversation because that's wrong That is wrong. And if when someone wants to say, hey, the reason why we're not standing over here because here's a question I have asked you guys are giving these stories about people being healed and so forth Question is why aren't we singing? Well, you're gonna say well, you don't have faith Make a differ, sir because let again, I don't have a problem with this. Let's take your life and my life Let's take your life and some of the folks live and let's just see who's had faith Let's just see who's exhibited. I'm not a Faith contest, but don't come in impugna and I'm not that well actually you guys have done so in the past So I can't say this But to say that the reason why folks aren't seeing stuff over here is because of a lack of faith But don't you guys have faith? That's the problem See the ignorant argument I'll just say it this way the ignorant argument not that you guys are ignorant or anything like that But when someone makes an argument to say that the reason why we aren't seeing these things in this country is because Sensationists don't have faith now. I'm not a cessationist, but or people like myself don't have enough faith Well, what does that have to do with you healing that person over there? What does it have to do with you raising folks from a dead? Tell me I would like to know what does that have anything to do with them? Yeah, I might not raise the dead. I might not heal someone because I don't have any faith But what about you? Remember all the folks that were that we see in the bible Being healed not all but but the overwhelming majority Didn't that have faith the overwhelming majority of people that were healed were not believers These signs were given for these unbelievers to then believe These different signs. So remember remember the bible tells us this though if we go to ax Chapter 416 says what shall we do with these men for the fact that a noteworthy miracle has taken place Through them is apparent when when god moved in the bible When god moved in the bible It was apparent You say the american church the american church are weak spiritually and strong corner. That could be true But guess what that's everywhere Probably not in war torn countries countries where they are oppressed for example I would listen the the north Korean church They get a thumbs up The church in china More so than here in america The places where you have the persecuted church where they don't have time For this stuff now ask yourself this question Charismatic people Why is it that we don't see we see more of the charismatic movement in places In and places in africa where it's safer to do so But we don't see this play. We don't see The charismatic movement like we see in those places in north korea We don't see it like that in indonesia We don't see it like that in syria in places where you will die For being a christian Can can you help me out Help us the the reason why The reason why is because and you can tell me that these folks don't have faith These people have faith To smuggle a bible in and to read it and try to memorize as quickly as you possibly can So that you don't get caught with it That's faith You're willing to die for it. I don't mean not you you're not willing to miss an honorarium for it You're not willing to miss a an offering plate for it. No You're willing to die for it That's faith That kind of faith where people are willing to die for it to be martyred for it And we don't see these gifts like like you see in other places Because let's look at the places where we see the majority of these so-called gifts that you guys tell And i'm not doubting that that miracles aren't happening that god didn't do anything i'm saying they are i'm saying they are Because god can god has got wherever But some of the greatest miracles or some of the greatest move of the spirit Is it something that's visible for everyone to see it's what's happening here because what is god as you said correctly so What god is trying to do is point people to jesus because the most important thing is to bring them to christ That's why we don't see a lot of miracles amongst or a lot of healings Amongst the church because guess where the church is going guess where the true believers are going the true believers have no need of these signs of miracles They have no need your buddy Isiah says that the gospel isn't the gospel if it's not accompanied by signs and wonders Well, that is not that is patently false You guys ought to call i don't know if you have on heaven, but that's something where he needs to be called out on But we go to these places where they we know their faith is Wow We beg not to live in those places or to have a place like that We're fighting for like heck for our country not to look like north korea Or china that's what we're begging for that They have faith But then so you guys make these statements. I was like, I don't believe I can't believe you made this state This is this is a bad statement You know what it shows me guys and this is so true so commonly of cessationists Is they're so confident in their position? They don't think they have to research the other position. They're so confident in their position They don't think they have to Read critically their own positions That is listen that You mean tell me you don't think that cessationist now i'm not a cessationist, but you mean tell me that these people that they don't read Or is that is that what we're saying? Yeah that And then this statement I think is a bad statement right here Cessationists, why are you so eager to not praise god for answers to prayer? Like help me understand Let me play it again. Let me play it again Cessationists Why are you so eager to not praise god for answers to prayer? Like help me understand Who's not praising god for answers to prayer? You can't don't don't do that Brother, let me just say this. I don't know how old you are What you do, but that's just wrong and you should be ashamed even say that Cessations don't praise god That's that's not that's not it's not a good look brother Charismatic they praise god continuations. They praise god sensations. They praise god for let's play it again Cessationists, why are you so eager to not praise god for answers to prayer? Like help me understand So you mean tell me that People who believe like jama carter or any other cessationists they don't praise god They you would have you don't you have to be not to praise god You would have to be an unbeliever You would have to be a non christian to not praise to answer prayers What it is is you guys Believe that other folks should take your Understanding and praise god for that again. We don't know. I don't think anyone has a problem with praising god for Miracles and for things like that. No one has a problem with that But you just can't say it is and then and then we're supposed to believe it Yeah, I guess I'm just wondering if I had proof of actual healings that took place instantly Would that sudden somehow convince him and I think the problem is is nothing would ever convince him And the fact is I have proof So you mean tell me now you think that if a person Saw some proof That wouldn't convince him well my friend That's kind of the problem See you gave a story about a person in an airport Who was healed of blindness instantaneously? Yet that story didn't make the news because guess what the secular media would love to see that too No one had a no one had a phone No, no one see that that's the problem now. We know god heals. I know for a fact god heals again The very first time that I had a chance an encounter with possibly a healing In my own life I told you sort of about the guy that collapsed Um, he had no history prior or after of any sort of episodes Um, all I'm gonna do was pray lord. Would you just heal him? Immediately he just he just set up what happened Man, you fell out. He was out for a minute really They they checked him out everything was fine now Was that me having to get the healing? I wouldn't I don't know. I don't think so. I don't know. I just prayed I just prayed. Uh, so do I believe that god can heal? Sure. Do I have to get the healing? I don't think so If I if I've got to get the healing man, I've been I'm pretty poor at it I'm pretty poor at it But is that a lack of faith? No If you've been through what I've been through and seen what I've seen you know, you know my level of faith Is it the best faith on the planet? Probably not but it's adequate enough for me It's work. It's got me through I trust god implicitly so much so I don't need proof of anything because what what would a miracle What would a sign? What would a wonder? What would a healing? What would a tongue? What would a demon being cast out? What would someone being slain do to me? What would you do for me? What would that do for an actual believer? What would the greatest believers, the people that have faith, the people who love the Lord Here's the question continuation is cares matter What would doing any of the or seeing any of those things do for me? Would it make me more safe? No, would it get me to have them quicker? No What it would do for you is if you saw something if you thought you saw something it would make you more reliant You know what I'm relying on his word Good enough for me. Let's see how many syllables good enough for me five syllables Good enough for me God said it That's good enough for me God whether you show me something or not I'm fine. I would love to see I can't I can't tell you how many miracles I would love to see Prayed for them prayed for them I've had folks in my family that were sick That needed healing. You don't think I prayed for them. You don't think sensations don't pray for healing for their fat They do they don't they don't believe in healing They just don't believe in Marcus Rogers healing They don't believe in Sid Roth healing. They don't believe in Pagani or Vlad sub-check healing. That's it You you want us to believe in the healing of people who have no good gospel whatsoever? And we're wrong Why don't when they do wrong best not proof enough for you to leave them alone? The reason why you've got this problem in your charismatic community because you don't call out enough Matter of fact, you kind of you kind of say hey, we shouldn't do that but then keep pushing it It's really what you do And so what proof do I need? What what what proof do I need do you know people in in even in prison who were They had the Lord is this and all these signs and one is this and that or whatever and got out no sooner than they were supposed to Why don't you why don't you cast these these prison? Doors open Why don't you call those things that are not as though they were? Even though it's not biblical Why don't you lay hands on the warden? Why don't you lay hands on the judge? My point is now are there miracles? Sure Now what we haven't seen Because even Nicodemus said hey Jesus, we know that you are from God because no one He he even admitted that the that the other Pharisees knew which is why Jesus that's his whole this brings to this whole issue of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit But even the Pharisees knew that Jesus was of God because he says that we know that a man from God can only do the thing Only a man from God can do what you do Only a man from God can do what you do Amen Katrina. So we don't need now. I'd love to see a miracle. I have man. Listen give me some popcorn I will watch a miracle all day because guess what I can go to this little goofy phone It might isn't so good because it's got the you know the little little coaster right there Yes, it's got the little coast so mine's probably better phone you guys's phone But because it's a coast phone, but you know I can go here I you can go to wherever you pick the platform It can be youtube it can be facebook. I guess I guess instagram I guess twitter tiktok anywhere anywhere you want to go and you know what they're going to show you They're going to show you a guy lighting a fireworks off in his truck They're going to show you Cats and dogs doing all kind of stuff They're going to you're going to catch all sorts of things on ring videos on people's phones on on security cameras On whatever all these videos all these people, but why is it That god Wants to hide these miracles Even if they're done in plain sight When he did not hide them then Why So when someone says hey what gifts and then we ask you guys and you say well because you don't have faith That's why you haven't seen that. All right Start charging your battery phone up your phone battery up so we can start seeing the miracles that you said are happening They might be happy and again. I believe in healing. I believe I believe in healing. Let's get that straight Let's let's be clear. I believe in healing I believe them in moving god I don't believe that we have what you guys say we had every day Now there are eight billion people on the planet. So I guess maybe we'll spread out who knows But we didn't have to go look for a proof Proof was in our faith or in their faces at the time But more than that I have faith in Christ. I have the Holy Spirit in me You know what I don't need I don't need any more proof. I don't need any more convincing I am secure in what I know And the fact of the matter is That when you make a statement that and I'm now I'm defending the cessation is I'm not again I'm not a cessationist guys. I'm not a continuations either. I'm a biblical contiguary So I'm gonna compare what you say and do according to the bible But when you tell a group of people that they don't have faith or why don't they believe Or what was what was the word you said? Um, they don't have proof or why won't they praise god for answered prayers? That's pretty arrogant That's pretty arrogant. Now again, I don't I didn't agree with everything that that uh, macArthur said but I think if we just look at his word And have some sound doctrine because you know what sound sound doctrine produces sound living Yeah sound doctrine produces sound living and we have a pattern Of living that's given to us by jesus last scripture In first peter 2 21 he says for you have been called for this purpose since christ also suffered for you Leaving you an example for you to follow in his steps. Paul makes a statement He says be imitators of christ. Follow me as I follow christ. Let's be imitators of christ Not in what he's doing perfectly now you guys are the ones cares max everyone that says that Whatever jesus did we can do more we'll do greater things than he did because he goes so we'll do greater things That's not what he's saying either But the point is if I never see another miracle I've witnessed one enough that is my faith in christ and him saving me. Amen