 Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. Hey, welcome back everyone. We are live here in Austin, Texas for the theCUBE exclusive coverage of the CloudNativeCon and KubeCon, KubernetesCon North America 2017. I'm John Furrier, wrapping up the show with two days of live coverage. Here with Stu Miniman and Justin Warren, analysts with theCUBE. Guys, you guys are out in the hallways. Justin, you're at all the sessions. Still, we've been doing interviews. Great show. Second year, full year, was a standalone show. It was kind of, you know, a small show last year, but really amazing size, 4500 people or so. A lot of logos, diamond sponsors, platinum sponsors, gold sponsors, silver sponsors, startup sponsors, media partners. It's a freaking commercial party, yet tons of developers, tons of action, so it's not so much a vendor show, a lot of vendor interest in what is the A-list developers in this new way to program, new way to build services from lift donating massive envoy code, Google bringing in massive code, a lot of contributions, a lot of energy, a lot of tech action. Let's wrap it up. Stu. Yeah, so John, first of all, we had covered the show last year. You had gone done it. I've seen the buzz around Kubernetes, so I had a certain expectation, and actually, I'd say the show exceeded my expectation. Dan Kona told us we're going to have over 4,000 people, so it wasn't the size of it, but just the quality of the people and the interactions here. We've been in other shows over the years with theCUBE where you've had those builders and smart people, but wow, you walk around here, people that have done some of these things many times, and as we were talking with a number of them, it's, there's some of this infrastructure and really trying to solve some of these things and make infrastructure boring, that we've been beating on for years, as well as it's really helping the applications, and I like that this really kind of bridges those environments, because infrastructure's always known. The reason we have infrastructure is to help the applications, and for too long, infrastructure's been this boat anchor, and smart people who've been through lots of battles before, and it feels a little different. It feels like we're making some progress. Justin and I were talking ahead of the show, I remember when we wrapped up Amazon last week, it was like serverless holds a lot of promise. Well, serverless does not eclipse all of the cloud native and Kubernetes stuff here. We're actually seeing some of the intersection, I know I want to hear Justin's take on some of it, but a lot of good things, let's just jump in here, Justin, 250 sessions here. They're all online, by the way, on their YouTube channel for the CNCF. You had a chance to kind of walk the hallways, go to some sessions, what did you find, what was exciting, what was the notable points? The conversations here have been spectacular, I agree with Stu, the quality of the attendees from customers, from people who are building the things, from vendors, it's really, really high quality stuff. The sessions are really technical, it depends on which part of the ecosystem you want to dive into, so there's not as much entry level and high level stuff. So people who are involved in this ecosystem know what they're doing. So it'll be interesting to see how that changes over the next couple of years. I expect that there's going to be a bit more intro level thing, although boring is the new exciting. So maybe there will be no need to do a lot of the intro stuff because it will be abstracted away. So there's a lot of projects that are basically about making everything easy. That is the goal, that's what I'm hearing around the conference today and there's lots of, we saw in the keynote yesterday, the idea of metaparticle, which is basically layering extra layers of abstraction on top of Kubernetes. We saw it again in the keynote with Chen today, where they're trying to put different services on top of Kubernetes. So essentially, Kubernetes goes away and just becomes invisible. It's like plumbing. Clayton Coleman mentioned that from Red Hat, making containers boring. I agree, boring is the new black. That means boring is working. That's foundational. To me, I think I'm excited by the fact that there's not a lot of land grabbing, so to speak, going on by the vendors. It's very foundational tech and people are focused on don't screw it up. Let's, we got a good thing going on here with Kubernetes. That's kind of the vibe I'm sensing and then the excitement of opportunity. There seems to be a lot of that. Anything jump out at you, Justin, on in terms of tech, hallway conversations, notable emerging projects? What catches your eye? As a catching up with Stu, just before the show, we were talking about what are you looking forward to? And for me, two of the big things was serverless and storage, like state management. And I agree with Stu. Those are the two things that still aren't really solved. I just came from the serverless working group just before coming on here. And there are still a whole bunch of foundational questions about what serverless actually is. Is it functions as a service? Is it more than that? Does S3 count as something which is serverless because you don't actually care about which server you're hitting. Maybe that's serverless. So there's still a lot of work to be done there about defining what that looks like and creating some standards around things. Standards is apparently a dirty word which I thought was a bit strange that this whole idea of, well, standards are great. Even it is great. It's a standard which allows you to build other things on top of that. I think we're going to see more and more of that. That's what we've seen with Kubernetes. That's one of the great benefits of having this standardized thing run by CNCF is everyone else can take that off the table as a competitive thing. So we're not trying to outdo each other and be more Kubernetes than anyone else. Instead, people are building things on top of that. So we're seeing storage providers like Diamonte. We're seeing networking providers who are doing things with Istio and Weaveworks. So that ecosystem is being deliberately created by taking some of that competitive pressure off the table. I got, that's a great point. I want to bring that up, Stu, I want to get your thoughts on this because we interviewed Ben Singleman from Lightstep. Lightstep. And he's a super smart guy, great conversation. But one of the things I asked him about is innovation around communities. And he says, look, you got to build in communities and having them run things is not as good as being forced to come together around standards. You mentioned Ethernet. A lot of the OSI model was formulated because if you didn't standardize, there was no outcome for anybody. So there's that kind of going on with Kubernetes where it's just come together. Let's, it should be a good word. And it was done deliberately. I was again talking with Chen like community is kind of a buzzword of the conference. There are specific things that have been done to build a community here. It's not just about technology, it's about the people. And we've got things like the diversity scholarships that we saw on the first day where 103 people were sponsored to come here and be at this conference. Yeah, I come into something like that a little bit skeptical and you want to poke at things. Coming off of the Amazon show, there are many people that are scared of Amazon. This show, everybody's actually really happy and they're like, great. It's no longer, Adrian made it, made a comment to us. He's like, it's not the everybody but Amazon club. They're here and everybody's actually happy they're here. Now, some of the things they're doing will still kind of play out over time, but community is real. John, the amount of smart men and women that we talked to here blew my mind. I mean, Chen, who we just had on, you mentioned some of the other guests we've had on just super high quality, you know, just density. You brought up a good point. This is something that we didn't talk about. It's good to bring it up. Amazon, yes, last week we were talking about the Amazon, how they're winning and everything else. Everyone's reacting to Amazon and this show is reacting to Amazon in a positive way because the culture here, they're from the same tech religion if you want to call it a religion. They're cloud native. They buy the Amazon value proposition. So it's not like this is an anti-Amazon crowd. If anything, they're all going, hey, thank you, Amazon. Keep validating microservices. I mean, why would you? It is very much a yes and. I was like, cloud, great. What else can we do? Let's do more of that. Let's layer things on top of this cloud thing and let's, in fact, go multi-cloud. Let's cloud all the things. Yeah, and the competition strategy is going to be interesting by the advantage and what's great is that they're enabling stuff. So to me, we're going to see where the value will be created. Obviously the software engineering piece is going to be a big definition. I think the word software engineering now means something. If you look at all the tech here, it's software engineering and then the application developers are application developers. They're not engineering plumbing, right? So you're going to start to see that kind of role so this new ecosystem might emerge. You guys' reaction to that. I mean, John, look, Kubernetes commoditized. It's no longer, you know, there's not the orchestration wars. We've talked about this coming in. One of the things that surprised me is, as Kelsey said on this keynote this morning, there actually wasn't any really big surprises. This community has a lot of transparency. So if you're plugged in, if you're talking to the people, we understand the roadmap. There's a lot of projects and nobody can keep up with all the changes, but some of the base pieces, we understand where that is. The service mesh piece, you know, huge participation. People go into the sessions. Everybody's interested in learning to it and there's so many pieces where people can contribute. Customers are getting value and it's still very, very early days. I love the line they said. It's like, hey, 4,100 people here. That's probably everyone running Kubernetes right now around the world. So, you know, John, how big is this going to get? You know, what do we say? I'd love to get Justin to take us. He was more in the hallways, but Justin kind of smelling the vibe here and kind of feeling it and reading the tea leaves. And if things, if they... I smell brisket. If the CNCF doesn't screw it up, which I don't think they will because Dan's very competent and they got a great team. I do agree with Justin. This is a community that was designed by the people first that have the right principles and know what they want and then will allow the tech to form. So I think we might see an easier decision around standards. If that all happens, things like standards and whatnot to make it grow, I think this could be a little mini reinvent going on here. So I feel a lot like reinvents do our first time there where we got all the best guests because it's such a small community. Now it's so popular we got it. They're all booked up and we're trying to grab guests. I think this could be as big as reinvent and not as now, but eventually this could be an industry event because if this all works out, you're going to see two major audiences. Those software engineering plumbers and then on the application side, that's going to be the business logic like they've been talking about. And then that's going to create value ecosystem, a third new constituency. If that happens, it's a services world and it's a 20,000 person show. Yeah, I can definitely see this growing into a big, big show. We don't have many industry independent shows anymore. Most of them are a particular vendor's ecosystem. This one is, yeah it's like Kubernetes came from Google, but the CNCF is an independent body. They're being very careful about which projects that they add in. I was speaking with a lot of the members of the founding board and they are being very careful to not make the same mistakes as happen with OpenStack. They've learned a lot of the lessons from OpenStack and other communities as well. So they're making some deliberate decisions based on experience and knowledge that they've gained from other places so that this will be sustainable and that it can grow into something really, really big. And I'll just add to your point there, Dan Cohen said on the opening keynote, they specifically designed it to be a technical event, not a business event. Yes. Stu, that takes the question. KubeCon with a C, C-U-B-E could be the business of Kubernetes. Ah, making a land grab. Putting it out there, not going to confuse you. You were predicted for 2018. KubeCon, not like that. We're bringing our best coverage. Guys, thanks for commenting. Last word, thoughts, the show. Sum it up, wrap it up. Kube, all the things. Yeah, I mean just impressive, John. After, you know, this is our last big event of the year. You know, just so, you know, humbled to be able to be, you know, in this community, meet some amazing people and you know, share it with our audience. You know, this community is something that comes out of this. We do community with the K, I guess, for Kubernetes, right? Community with the K, yeah. I think high quality, okay. Purposeful, high integrity, and smart. And I think that is a formula that will play well. Love the diversity, love all the action. Guys, great wrap up, Justin Stu. This is theCUBE here, wrapping up KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, North America 2017 in Austin, Texas. Thanks for watching, of course. Visit siliconangle.com and youtube.com, which has SiliconANGLE, thekube.net and wikibon.com. And special shout out to Red Hat for all the great support. Appreciate it and continued success to Red Hat. This is theCUBE signing off from Austin, Texas. Thanks for watching.