 Okay. Okay. Well, welcome everyone. This is the first lecture of the, of the semester, and actually the first lecture for me as a dean. So I'm incredibly excited that this first lecture is Iyalis Weisman's lecture. And actually, I think the last time we saw each other, we were acting as orangutans for an experiment that you were doing in Istanbul with Metid and Marx, Marx, Viania. And it's a, it's also been, it's a very important moment after two years and a half, two years of Iyalis not being allowed to come to the U.S. and we're incredibly happy of the work that Tunkina did with Senator, mobilizing senators and many other people to make this happen. And we're incredibly honored that you're coming here in this first return to the U.S. This session has been possible and facilitated by Laura Corgan and the program in computational design practices that was launched earlier this year incredibly successfully and I'm very happy. And this speaks a lot of the way this program is operating as a network of alliances and conversations with others. Iyalis' work is incredibly important for architecture and not only for architecture, it's brought a materialist perspective and aesthetic sensitivity to the political arenas in which truth is produced socially. And I think this is not only redefining architecture, not necessarily as buildings, but as networks of connections and alliances and conflicts and disputes between people, other forms of life, objects. And for me this perspective is incredibly important and not only for me, obviously, not only for our fields, but also for the way that we understand politics as societies now across the world. And for this I'm incredibly honored that Iyalis' opening this semester and this new age for GESAP and I will pass it to Laura that will do a formal introduction of this session. Thanks so much. So Iyal, I can't think of a better person to be hosting as our first speaker both for the program that I've just launched and for Andres as well. So really happy that this happy coincidence happened. So this is the formal introduction. Iyal founded and runs what is by now quite a large and influential practice, forensic architecture. His awards and books are way too numerous to listen and introduction like this one and you can easily find them online anyway. So what is distinct of forensic architecture's work is that like Andres just said, they use the tools of architecture to intervene in very specific events related to violations of human rights and spatial politics, but they don't just take these concepts for granted. They ask things like what is human, what are rights, and what constitutes space in the first place. Forensic architecture does very patient work. They make architectural models, digital, sometimes physical, synchronize events and correlate those events with others. They work as recently taken on the police in Chicago for the murder of the 37-year-old Harith Augustus, the Israeli occupation forces for the murder of Ahmed Erekat, a 26-year-old Palestinian at a checkpoint between Jerusalem and Bethlehem, illegal gold mining in the Amazon which is destroying the territory and habitat of the indigenous Yananami people, and environments of orangutans in the rainforest of Indonesia which are being destroyed by palm oil production, and tons and tons of more projects you can view on their amazing website. So they use architecture to comment politically on the world. But forensics itself implies working in court where evidence is produced by way of reconstructing the memory of the witness as well as the scene of the crime. They've done this over and over in minute detail in multiple scenarios. Even in the court though they offer account of forensics or account of mapping. They use the tools of power, of the police, of the army, of the secret service, and more to expose those methods of violence and of surveillance in order to undo those very same infrastructures and violences. Sometimes they succeed in court and sometimes they fail in the court of law. But in the court of artistic and aesthetic discourse narratives and journalism, the influence is without comparison. Their methods have been replicated in the New York Times, The Guardian, and The Washington Post, and I'm showing my own bias here for sure. And what doesn't work in courts works in other ways super successfully. They also have a massively expansive artistic practice and display they work in museums around the world. The Venice Biennale, the ICA in London, the Whitney Biennale here in New York City and many, many more. They often address local situations within the structure and funding of museums like the Whitney Project which led to the resignation of the board member Warren Canders or a documenter where they highlighted the murder of Halit Yazgat in a family run internet cafe in Kassel, Germany where documenter takes place every five years. Or in Bogota, Colombia where they were commissioned to exhibit work as part of the clarification of truth coexistence and non-repetition commission. So sometimes forensic architecture is commissioned and sometimes they choose their own topics for activist reasons and really an amazing body of work. Personally, Elielle is a friend and an interlocutor. We became friends through our work and we debate many things. It is a rare person to whom I can say finally they have allowed pixels to be displayed at 31 centimeters rather than re-sampled to 50 centimeters and he would know exactly what I mean and what I'm referring to. We have a common language of pixels and the limits and discontents amongst other space-time artifacts. Elielle operates in worlds that require esoteric and hard to understand methods and techniques but his expertise is to make that knowledge understandable and sensible to many with very high ethical standards. The impact of the work unfolds in time and space for countless people that the works represents politically and aesthetically. He's also very brave in his work and ideals. So welcome Elielle. I'm so happy that you're back. Thank you so much. Such an absolutely beautiful welcome and I feel very much at home here. I want to start by saying to you all or to congratulate you all on your new dean. Not so much to congratulate the dean but the school and I think that you have the right person in the right time. Is that off? You have the... Is that better? Hello? Yeah, better now. I think you have the right person in the right time and also I think to congratulate Laura on the integration of your program, the computational design program that I hope will keep on kind of breaking new grounds in architectural education. Thank you for the way that you've opened for many of us Laura in your work to date and in what will continue I think as path breaking practice. I'm very happy to be here. I'm happy to be here but I'm ambivalent about being in the US I guess after a few years of gap that kind of were pretty comfortable not to come here. A lot of it was consumed by Covid but otherwise was nice and kind of difficult to remember what it is to deliver a lecture on jet lag. So if you start hearing my speech kind of my speed and energy decreasing that's the explanation. But the pandemic was also a process of evaluation I think for everybody and we came back to a world that is very different from the one that we closed ourselves in a house from and we returned to a different place on many many level and I think that new questions have arise and new agencies need to make themselves manifest in a world and also that has been our experience in forensic architecture when we opened the door of our houses again and gathered again for the first time in the office that was abandoned for a bit. We realized that many things have changed but like Laura said our techniques have become a little bit more mainstream like we can see them around in media we can see other groups doing that we can see them being employed in by human rights organizations within their stuff. It's actually was really nice to be on kind of advising the hiring committee sometimes when they were seeking to hire architects and usually they would hire architects either to do some kind of renovation or to write maybe about architecture but they were hiring architects in order to become journalists so there's a kind of transformation no architecture became an optical device became a tool to see other things from not that the study of architects kind of crashed onto the architectural object so it's really wonderful to see both Washington Post and the New York Times hiring architects now but then where does it leave us as a practice and how to operate in a field that has become a bit more multipolar in this way and one of the things that happened for us during COVID is that we came back into not one organization but into a splinter of several so we have now a little office in Berlin called Forensis named after the first exhibition that we had there at the Hakawe the House of World Cultures we've opened offices in Bogota kind of the wake of the inauguration of our work for the Colombian Truth Commission and recognition of that effort we are working now on opening an office in Mexico City but the one that actually was very close to me and the one I would like to start with is a little office we've opened in Ramallah it is very close to me because I think you know that I come from Israel and that a lot of the practice that later became forensic architecture started within what is now called the anti-colonial movement in Israel-Palestine movement that includes of course and led by Palestinians but include also Israeli Jews like myself and I think it was when Mark when he was the dean invited Rafi Segal and I which was I think our first public lecture to present work on the architecture of Israeli occupation in the West Bank and I think that that preoccupation with architecture, human rights and seeing how as architects we could see perhaps political realities that maybe obscure or not fully understandable to other frames of analysis and documentation has begun so in that sense it's a good return to that but our opening up into a kind of a constellation of organization was also an attempt to bridge a big distance a gap between our office in London so of course if you come to the office you would see that it includes people from not only many you know journalists and coders and architects and filmmakers etc. lawyers and in London about almost 30 of us in a kind of a space that feels something between an architectural studio and a newsroom it has the kind of the intensity of a newsroom and the focus of an architectural office but still in London and how to bridge that gap we've learned over the years actually to be a little bit more like architects and actually work to commissions so we don't anymore do what we're interested in because we understand that entering the space of trauma entering an event that is difficult for family, for community, for friends cannot be done because we think it's interesting because we know that something is in the news or important so we work only when we are invited and also to be invited to do things we recognize a kind of the difficulty that this sort of commissioning culture operates because who are the people that know of us, who are the people that feel secured enough or confident enough to send us an email or an invitation to work and so we needed to kind of break our kind of like communication and unitary structure and use the sort of like how we learn to work together during the pandemic in order to open all these offices in a way of work that we call very much open verification kind of big collaborative investigation not based on expertise but in as much as it's based on expertise based on the people that experience conflict and at the forefront of struggle and their kind of embodied and local knowledge of the situation so weird constellation of practitioners that would include those at the forefront the lawyers maybe that were by their side curators that enabled that work to be presented in different places but when you do that when you place the office at the site of conflict these things could happen and some of you I could see a smiling and know what that is last month in the middle of last month on the night between the 17th and 18th of August one of our practices in Al-Haq a collaboration with the biggest Palestinian human right group has been raided by the Israeli military Al-Haq was raided we are a kind of a unit within that and the door they brought a sheet and they welded it onto the door of Al-Haq so I'm going to tell you a little bit about it so in the spring of 2021 we established the first satellite office of those that I talked about partnership with Al-Haq which is the largest NGO in Palestine it's a human right group founded in 1979 a group of lawyers mainly but also researchers that work and the decade-long Israeli apartheid in fact they are the organization that termed that started that campaign that ended with Human Rights Watch accepting and acknowledging the fact that Israeli ongoing domination Palestine constitute the crime of apartheid but Al-Haq also work in documenting human rights by their own government by the Palestinian authority that sometimes with its corruption and also collaboration with the Israeli occupation forces participate in the domination of their own people what happened in October 2021 is that this organization was declared a terrorist organization I think many of you have read it in the news it was not only them it was a network of organizations that was declared terrorists beside Al-Haq it was Adamir dedicated to Palestinian prisoners the organization Defense for Children International Palestine the Union of Palestinian Women's Committee the Union of Agricultural Work Committee as well as a research center six organizations were declared terrorist organization and these organizations are the backbone of Palestinian civil society in the Israeli imagination they were accused to be the front for the largest left-wing party in Palestine a splinter group from FATA called the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine or PFLP which is a Marxist Leninist at least in its origins political party that has a power military branch known for plain hijacking in the 70s nobody accepted that connection it's not right perhaps only in as much as these organizations belong generally speaking to the left and the PFLP is a left-wing organization in this imagination of the occupiers one universalist project kind of international solidarity between left-wing sometimes guerrilla movement along the world has morphed into a series and a network of human rights groups in there and a lot has been discussed about that morphine that has taken place so what is criminalized is the act of solidarity and civil society here every case produced by these organizations is based on a big network of activists that exist and work on the ground within those communities that they represent when Israel sent the evidence for them being a terrorist group to the radical left-wing organization the CIA it obviously echoed the fact that these people are not terrorists so why have they been declared as terrorists? Palestinians say that the reason is that these organizations that I mentioned six groups are promoting the investigation against Israel that is presented and culminating in the case being investigated now in the International Criminal Court in Hague a case that we in forensic architecture also have contributed to and I'll show you work that we've done on that so problem is evidence, the collection of evidence and the work of evidence collection have been declared a terrorist act with serious consequences most of the people we work with in Al Haq have found malware on their phones, the officers are being raided, attempts to cut their funding and now funding is taking place currently as we speak and every day that's what we have to spend our time mitigating finding new avenues to find evidence to what and I think that sometimes and for my Palestinian friends it sounds weird, what do we need to evidence more? What do we need to show that we haven't showed yet about the nature of the Israeli occupation in general, its regime of domination why is evidence so scary and how in a way in which civil society produces it there is other potentials for resilience and work that do not only validate themselves and this is something that we've learned ourselves in forensic architecture the validation of truth production whether it's evidence or history it could be a history of a millisecond or history of decades telling history is not validated by the way it is received or by the work it only does in court it's the way it is produced these organizations working together collaboratively with international actors that produces resilience and produces and becomes the evidence itself if it is evidence becomes evidence of the social relations that went into the production of this work and this is the raid over those so in the early morning of the 17th of August as I said entering, breaking like thieves in the night documents and then having the kind of audacity and arrogance to sit and kind of chill out in front of what is obviously on the CCTV cameras before they've cut them off so I think we need to maybe dedicate this lecture into those locked doors in Palestine those welded shut doors with those warrants kind of stuck on them this is the Bisan, the research center and the agricultural worker center and the health work committee and the door for the mayor and the order itself reads in my power as commander of the military and by power invested in me from the emergency regulation continuously with my declaration that al-Haq is an illegal association and given I determined the necessity for security reasons for the safety of the area of the army of orderly government good order and as I determined to be necessary for the prevention of terror activity I ordered the immediate closure of this place as soon as this order has been delivered and it's keeping shut by the way nobody in the world accepted that but condemnation did not arrive and in fact if there's any consequences to these organizations and to the people that also we in those areas only that it took few minutes and the main entrance was opened and the organization staff and our kind of the forensic architecture unit there I was back at work on the same day producing work that is going to go to the Hague if that is what is is being chosen and the first investigation has already been published and added to the submission and this first investigation was really about clouds so this is why the kind of the cloud study theme of this work it was an attack it was a missile attack on a chemical storehouse targeting that chemical storehouse and producing kind of like a chemical bomb simply without throwing chemicals but simply by mobilizing combination of wind and whatever was stored in this place cloud studies so I thought to speak about clouds and to actually kind of choose a number of projects that we've done over the years in order not so much to show you the work that we are most known for kinetic violence police murders and brutality and other such things but to look at the limit of forensics and through that also to the limit of the perhaps architectural imagination so clouds is thought about the atmosphere what is a limit of an object and how to represent objects what is the limit of violence how to understand violence not as a relation as a line that connect only two points and this thing came the idea really goes back to one very early memory that I had in one of the early Israeli attacks on Gaza in 2008 it was before forensic architecture was established and I was helping an organization based in Palestine but not in Gaza to monitor and call people in Gaza to see how they were during the war and I remember calling a person on the ground and asking them how are you and they said something that I can never forget they said my neighborhood is turning from solid to dust and the dust of homes is filling the air and he was coughing and saying I'm breathing in my home right so the home turned from solid to gas I'm breathing in my streets and indeed one can think about clouds as architecture in a gaseous form changing from columns to mushrooms before dissipating into the atmosphere bomb clouds contain everything that the building once was cement, plaster, plastic glass, timber, fabric, paperwork, medicine sometimes even parts of human remain mixed together with the vapor and hot air and create that moving object so when there are human remnants in those bomb clouds you need to see them as kind of airborne cemeteries of sort kind of soft architecture lasting for 8 minutes now usually and the first time that we use that and I go now to a project that I think some of you or many of you have seen but I want to kind of think about it in these terms was when we needed to when we did one of our first investigations on the Israeli bombing of Gaza over 7,000 videos and we were working with Amnesty International, Al-Mezan, Palestinian Human Rights Group and they asked us to reconstruct one day, 7 o'clock in the morning August 1st, 7 o'clock in the morning August 2nd from those 7,000 images and you know that in our work it begins by locating things in time and space but of course there was no metadata and there is no metadata on videos and images that you find online and we didn't know how to locate them in time we were looking for clues, we were looking at shadows, we were looking at all sort of things trying to find any traces of physical clocks within the image itself and this is just the kind of you know sort of a typical sort of like evidence that we have until we realized we were looking in the wrong part of the image, the ground we were looking at the ground but actually we needed to look up at the air because in the sky the bomb clouds and some also meteorological clouds were floating and they were a kind of a giant physical clock over the city that allowed us to understand where images were taken so in one way you find three images coming from three different corners of the internet and you understand this is the same cloud, this is the same time so you synchronize them to each other and then we started to build what we call the cloud atlas kind of a documentation of each and every cloud shape that we could get giving each one a kind of a name, a shape, a catalogue number so then when we see it again we can actually build the sort of the architecture of the skies there but somehow also when you find a video with clouds it gives you more information than that so this is the videos that we got directly from the medical emergency services they were driving on ambulances which are actually like tuk-tuk so kind of scooters with a little contraption at the back, they were driving because communication was cut, they were driving just directly towards the clouds so that was the best and most useful kind of videos we had to work with because they always had the clouds in front of them and then when you find the same in another place you see that the distance between those two clouds is bigger on the left that it is on the right that you can start locating them, you can start seeing on which angle and trajectory they are located so there is also three dimensionally there is a value in this form of reconstruction then you had there was one satellite image of that city during that day at 11 39 and so the satellite just goes over when it went over it caught one bomb cloud as it exploded so we had the time for one cloud and when we find that cloud on the ground whatever we see in plan, if we find it in some kind of elevation if you like or perspective we could actually sync up the whole thing so we went through and then found the one here on the left, we knew that's the same time and then we could actually build what has become shape in relation to digital time that allowed us to move further and then when we synced up the sky three dimensionally we could actually build the events on the ground, construct a timeline and understand what happened I'm not going to, you know, the material is in my book if you're interested and you could see why, you could see what exactly happened during that time this is really one of the very early investigations, you know, you could see already like we're not yet within the kind of graphics capability that you've seen in more recent work and then actually understood that building an architectural model and this is really where it emerged in this sort of by cloud constellation is what allows us to locate each image now in space because here is an image of a hospital or kind of medical center and we can see a bomb right behind it matching the image into the model is what allows the location and sometimes you need to understand the fluid dynamics of those and to understand that the same cloud that you see from this perspective you later see it from another one so when you look very carefully and slowly at clouds you start noticing other things in the sky and in this particular clip we were shocked to see the bombs several microseconds before it hits the ground and blow up, we wish we could have frozen it these bombs killed 16 civilians, one entire family there and we were showing those bombs to the lawyers we were working with, they said could you let us know which bomb it is and actually having the model and having it in relation allow you to place because when you know where they hit the ground we were able to put an image and a grid behind them measure them and compare them to a catalogue and then we see this is the bomb, these are the people that manufactured it and a certain other line of legal activism kind of is opening up because it's now based on work with supply chains if you like, I think that the idea of cloud studies and working with clouds was very interesting for us because we understood going back to the history of cloud studies it was a very interesting moment historically where artists and scientists were working together to effectively build at the end of the 19th century the science of meteorology, not that artists were coming later to amplify to a steady size but effectively the kind of sensibility to form and shape allow the kind of a system of classification to emerge from the stimulus stratus almost as if there were plants or frogs or as if there were like objects that could be grasped whereas there were actually the epitome of transformation but the idea of cloud studies and the attempt to capture clouds in the sky creates threads and forms on them through also, you know, this is drawings from John Ruskin in Modern Painters kind of an attempt to capture the sort of that is always transformed and the amorphous clouds of course change faster than the hand that drove them could capture them they had to be not always represented and you know work like that theory of clouds and other capturing that moment of the fact that one part of the painting, the ground, could be captured by the rules of perspective, ownership object base kind of understanding but the air above it was still so if the ground was in modernity the air was still somewhere in the middle ages somewhere about divinity and mood etc so but these ideas and those early attempts to kind of to capture clouds were interesting for us because we needed to update them to our own, with our own techniques another thing that we learned about working with clouds is that they are also a condition of vision, an atmospheric condition an optical condition if you look at them from within when you're situated within a cloud it's very different than what I showed you, you know, looking at a photograph from a cloud from the outside where you could say here are the objects and here it is transformed and this image is part of an ongoing work that we right now undertake for a huge community in London, the communities of survivors and the bereaved related to the Grenfell Tower Fire of June 2017 where huge housing in the centre of the city burned with 72 people died in front of the entire city the entire city and I think anyone that drives from Heathrow to London passes through it, it could be seen for miles in every direction, everybody got up that night with the news looking at the tower being burnt but there were people inside people that were inside, those that survived were those that did not obey to the fire authorities instruction of staying put everyone that called the emergency services was told up until 2 o'clock, 2 am to stay in their house and those that actually managed to escape went, had to go through the thickest of fogs, the experience that they had the kind of the contemporary hell was the stairwell the windows were breaking one after the other from the temperature and every time a window breaks especially in higher altitude of the building in higher floors the air sucks inside the smoke and the smoke because the fire doors, the front doors of the building were not closed secure enough into the stairwell, so the stairwell was this kind of column of smoke in which people were moving through hardly seeing anything working with the community on the civil claim in fact one of the biggest sort of class acts in actions in British history had to reconstruct the pathways of dozens of those people that survived their experience of walking through and very often the testimony in this most horrible situation moving through this fog is obscured by the obstruction to hold on to, you know you just walk through that kind of fog but things happen within there, people moving up, people moving down you encounter people in there, you've seen people that later have passed within that event and this is the reason that we were asked to use one of the techniques that we have developed that we call situated testimony in which we reconstruct with victims the experience that they encountered in front of models, very technical process just building, choosing the thickness of the smoke or the object at any given moment in the hope that doing that would allow memories that are unavailable to people to erupt and emerge and this is just one image in which the kind of the fog the modelling of fog became a kind of mnemonic technique within that process everyone's around here then I kind of close the door and I kind of stuck my head out hello hello, nobody was like really there and then the smoke comes into the corridor and everything after I close the door there's much more on the haze so again these are not representations these are not like post-production these are being made in order for people to view and enter into the logic of the event and then I remember coming down one part first of all I thought there must be a hose pipe a water hose pipe because I stepped on something please take your time but I thought I stepped on hose pipes in the stairwell but you can't see anybody you can't hear anybody else but you stepped on somebody else I'm going to stop that but I think you understand that Nicholas Burton in this moment is reconnected with something he experienced and have not fully understood what it was what he stepped on through the haze as going down and it was a moment that also for him at that moment has been incredibly gratifying later because he has kind of uncovered that root of the thing that bothered him about the way down which he did not fully acknowledge he couldn't word it and that came out in that process another work that I want to show you is a work that has been led by one of our members Imani Jacqueline Brown who comes from Louisiana grew up in what is called New Orleans but between Baton Rouge and New Orleans is the site with the highest density of gas pollution factories, refineries, petrochemical factories over there and stopping actively any research being done and lobbying continuously against science of the direct and quite obvious connection between the massive pollution of these areas and the level of cancer there so this is the area and we have been able to simulate the dispersion of different chemicals within that on the majority black communities along Cancer Alley. These people are also descendants of enslaved people that lived in these plantations and Imani in her work was trying to mobilize the history of the history of those plantations in this area in order to be able to stop that and to put different difficulties in front of new at least planning requests for new factories there and the way it was done is through mapping out cemeteries of enslaved people that remained within the area by identifying here the kind of what is called cartographic regression knowing where they are in order to stop those planning applications and actually creating a certain predictive model that allowed to identify at least 150 sites in which there is a high probability of a cemetery within this zone and that actually was presented in court earlier this year and we're going to see how it's going to affect the attempt to stop these processes. Back in Palestine this is a typical day in the West Bank so to say a demonstration not too big going towards Israeli soldiers that are lined up next to the wall beautiful landscape, beautiful day and that little bit of cloud here on the right-hand side of the image is tear gas and in fact the rules of the game are written activists are trying to get to the line of soldiers in order to push them away and the occupation soldiers are firing this kind of wall of tear gas that in order to get there you need to cross that tear gas on the way there I'm standing, I'm not particularly hot headed in these demonstrations but there was a young person next to me who I felt was a bit motivated to do that and I was trying to stop her running and she started to run, I ran with her, I could see that soldier as filming as we went on identifying us telling this guy to shoot and he fires a canister the canister of tear gas directly in her head so we're just next to each other I don't know if it hits her head then she shows the finger to them etc and that tear gas canister only later, only years later I realized is the same one that was sold here or the company was based here and that kind of connected to the Whitney story so that was a canister of a triple chaser produced by Safari Land and the work that the work and thinking we've done on tear gas also started with another project to do with roundabouts with the way in which the countering of bodies in protest, in space coming in the sort of series of revolution that spread throughout the Arab speaking world within the early years of the second decade of the 21st century creating a series of traffic jams echo punctures, putting the cities on the siege by pressing one point taking over roundabouts, this was the roundabout revolution in that way, bodies in that space in those nodes of traffic were dispersed with enormous quantities of roundabouts, this is actually the taxing square that is no longer a roundabout but still a hub and the roundabout in Manama, in the Pearl roundabout and then the work that we were asked to do in Chile during the protests of the end of 2019 where again enormous amount of tear gas was fired and we had to produce a kind of sort of predictive methods to understand the way that cloud that is only visible, you can only see it in the seconds after it's emanating from the canister, but it actually exists in the air and on the ground for months thereafter, making it toxic in this case into the river, etc. so giving that shape in which cloud had to be mathematically produced, so another way of kind of understanding them and then into that world, this is the world that we faced when we were invited to show at the Wittin Biennale here what year was that, that was 2020 or 2019 18 already, oh my god wow, wow, wow, wow and it started well before well before us and continued well after us with a group of activists actually occupying the Whitney when they realized that the vice chair of the Whitney board was actually making his money from selling tear gas internationally in different places to the time where the US was using enormous quantities of tear gas on the border to Tijuana the so called caravan that was coming and again you could see the sort of amorphous cloud breaking through and not really accepting this sort of Cartesian delineation of state boundaries having its own kind of territoriality in that way that became understood and we were thinking that if we are to show there and we were actually asked to show there our work on police brutality, we wanted actually to turn the museum itself into a kind of a site of accountability so I'll explain to this, it's an opportunity for me to discuss a few facts about the way that forensic architecture operates. Because we consider ourselves to be a counter forensic practice meaning we produce evidence against state violence, corporate violence, the courtroom is only one of the sites of action, of activism of accountability that we work within whenever we get commissioned to do a case we sit with the people that commission us and we build a strategy that involves both sometimes, not always presentation in legal processes and then perhaps advocacy through human right channels perhaps a truth commission or people's tribunal then we build a media strategy around it media is another forum, the kind of the forensics in forensic architecture refers to the different forums that we will present our work and somehow the art and cultural spaces started becoming important, maybe too important in our practice recently it's kind of a reality that we were facing rather than anything that was designed, we started receiving enormous amount of invitation, we always thought okay the art the forum of the cultural forums are great because they allow us to offset the problems that we saw in the court which kind of shrinks into its absolute technicality the evidence that is necessary so lawyers hate what they call dirty evidence dirty evidence is the excess beyond the legal apparatus that is presented with an evidence file think of it like the shard of clay or something and the earth the dirt that is kind of stuck to it is unnecessary, you need to clean it up in order to present it, in fact the dirt on the evidence the political or any theoretical or commentary big historical or locating things within history is exactly what makes the evidence fail in court, so there was this problem of dirty evidence within our work all the time and things that we were not willing to clean up from the work but what is dirt in one form becomes the decisive apparatus in another, so when you take a piece of work from a courtroom and place it in an art space exactly the historical, the political theoretical if you like, aesthetic is what becomes operative and perhaps the mechanical the scientific is there but shifts slightly to the background and so for us it was always a way like that of offsetting the problem of the limitation that we were facing as political activists by presenting technical evidence in court, sometimes some of it you can say in the media but some things you cannot say in the media, it's an impatient medium also, so taking a same piece of it, it's actually an interesting exercise, so take the same piece of evidence across five or six different forms and see how it operates differently in each one and what becomes the operative element within it, but then you have to keep the dirt on the evidence with the risk that the dirt brings with it if you like and this is kind of like a equivalent to the way in which contemporary archaeology, I just, we had a I'm not going to speak about that today but maybe in the future I think I'll present that work I'm working now with a great political David Wengrow who's written with David Graber this really interesting book on the sort of change from paleolithic to neolithic, the emergence of cities 7000 years ago and understanding that in that period of time archaeology is something completely different that what we use to think in archaeology, what is the most common word for archaeology, unearthing, and what unearthing means, it's like you take an object and you clean the earth from it you unearth it or you take it from the earth, but in fact the earth itself is so informationally enriched that the signal is in the earth rather than necessarily only in the object and the signal in the earth, it's magnetism, it's kind of density, other kind of like components of its soil, I think this is something that Roche knows very well because he works with this sort of like reading, turning this sort of signal noise ratio in relation to dust and many other things, etc. So this is something that kind of like explained to me that problem of dirty evidence, in fact the earth is a signal itself, just like what I was speaking about in the clouds before and in this period when you dig for the early city, not the great Mesopotamian palaces, but the very gentle city, gentle light touch cities that were built in places like where the war now happens in Ukraine and in other places you dig into it and it evaporates, there's no materiality to it, it's just matters of densities clouds in the earth, if you like, no? In them you start seeing forms, you can start seeing anthropogenic uses, etc. Why am I talking about that? I'm talking about that because I wanted to speak about the court and how each bit of evidence operates so for us the cultural space was like a safe space this was where after the battles after having all the schmutz in our face and scratching and all this kind of like things that go with, you know, you publish anything on anywhere, but especially in Palestine you get the whole Twitter on you and we thought, okay, now it's like open an exhibition having fun, drinking something it's kind of like our safe space and also a place to make the comments in a way that was, we felt a bit more well received, but we never understood the fact previously that just like any other space it operate to constrain and it itself could be in this particular case the instrument of oppression because that exhibition founded by that on that board member on that money is more destructive and in fact what there is to do, it's not about it's not really also about people think that this is about you know, kind of like making sure that the funding is sort of like ethical or something like that. No, it's about creating sites of struggle, it's about identifying vulnerabilities to people who violate human rights to people that profit from weapons, etc. It's not really about, you know, that even based on any imagination that there could be, you know, that we need to have something like an ethical investment fund or something like that. It's ridiculous, no? Somebody enters the space that you can act, you act is where, this is the way we were thinking about it and what we wanted to do was to understand in an immediate way, we needed to do a fast project, we wanted to know where this guy sells tear gas to. Now unlike weapons, so if you make missiles, you need like Pentagon and all these approvals, you know, you need all this signature and that appears on a public register and you sell what is called less lethal means, which is what gas is what, you know, rubber coated steel bullets are and things like that, it doesn't. You don't know where it is. In order to know, we need to search the Internet. In order to search the Internet, you need a lot of people. So how to do that? So where, so okay, we can hear David Byron actually explaining that. We took as our test case the triple chaser tear gas grenade manufactured by Defense Technology a subsidiary of Safari Land. Computer vision using machine learning begins by training a classifier to recognize objects in images. Bounding boxes and masks tell the classifier where in the image the tear gas grenade exists. This process usually requires a training set of thousands of images but we were only able to identify fewer than a hundred images of the triple chaser online. So we set out to create a synthetic training set. We reached out to activists to find and photograph triple chaser grenades. An insurance claims adjuster named Mikol sent us this video from Tijuana an artist Emily Jassir sent us this from her Bethlehem Art and Research Center. Probably the most tear gas artist in the world. From these we created a digital model according to the specification. I think you can see just by two examples. Somebody in Tijuana, somebody in Palestine. Even to produce things that are very technical you need network of collaborators in front lines. So the idea was because we couldn't find a training set to produce architectural models that will build us the training set will produce all the possible variation would show those tear gas canisters from all directions and then we use these patterns in order because that's our kind of like a developer is telling us place an object in order to realize the distinction between figure and ground you need to locate it in that way. I'm going to show a sequence with a bit of strobing if anyone has photosensitivity which is also a good term for a classifier because a classifier is kind of photosensitive it's a way of reading photographs. Please don't look at the next session although it's beyond the thread it's within the threshold, the legal threshold, etc. Sorry. The work itself contained a training set that would allow to identify triple chasers in the wild meaning in the internet. A classifier to create a classifier is like teaching how to see and those of you that have children know that to understand the nature of an object to understand that this is a microphone but this is also a microphone and even if it's dirty it's still a microphone and even if it's broken, it's a microphone, it's a broken microphone needs a certain obstruction and so you see through those obstructions so you kind of understand how it is that we need to get classifiers and today when we do open source investigation we cannot do it no more like we did in Palestine in 2015 with the clouds that we've collected each one and tailored kind of like a model around it. We need a kind of a combination of sort of machine learning and human research the first step of research is by those things and in order to do that we create what we call model zoo a model zoo is a number of objects different kind of objects that we look for and then each one would kind of catch it, would dirt it show it from all direction, would create a classifier and then we'll send it out on the wild to do that and those colors that are behind are randomly produced colors that are there in order to distinct figure from ground. So this film became at the same time a film for a machine because it's the training set with which you can identify triple chaser canisters and it's an art piece let's say at the Whitney but also a claim of activist sort of claim within that and then you run that classifier through on different you run it and then it's sort of like it starts scanning the internet according to all sort of like hashtags and then it brings things in different probabilities that are the object that one is looking for and this is the future of open source investigation I'm convinced that because the volumes that we're seeing when we started forensic architecture shooting incidents somewhere there were maybe four videos around it now in events like the protest in Hong Kong when we were working with a social movement there you have within one hour several thousand videos each one live like you know being put on Facebook live or something like that hours long you cannot watch those and definitely not all of those and that also led to obviously to the resignation I think did you say that Laura thank you for mentioning that but more importantly later through the disinvestment disinvested from Tiga so in a sense for us that was important because the art and cultural space was not a site to seek for accountability somewhere else but you know kind of out of the black box or white cube of that we wanted to kind of direct it directly into the my power point is tell me I'm speaking for 84 minutes is that possible okay I have to skip so should I I should stop right soon okay alright I don't know what what it is if I have one more 10 more minutes okay I'll show them two projects one that we've done on Pegasus a collaboration with the citizen lab and Amnesty International on digital violence but maybe before that I'll show a work that we have just finished and I mentioned the the the other kind of constellation of forensic architecture units when the war in Ukraine began when the invasion began there was a group that we really admired really loved in Ukraine called the center for spatial technologies I want to show some of their work I don't know who of you know them absolutely brilliant group of people and I knew them at the time because they were working with our techniques and also seeking our advice on and it was before the war on a Babiniar massacre site Babiniar is a site that in September 1941 30,000 members of the Jewish community of Kiev were murdered in and were covered within this Yaryar Yaryar is a ravine within the city and it became very well known that in the first days of the war there was a TV tower that was actually built on that site was flattened and people didn't know exactly what was hidden and we were working with them so I'll show you know it's kind of start from the the clouds that allowed us to actually understand the relation between the images and somehow navigate the space and understand what was struck and now I will show you the work that we have done together based on their work on their previous work now that group from Kiev is we've been able to help them leave Kiev of course women can leave very easily but men cannot and it took a couple of months when you know they were encrypted working from from Kiev and later from the mountains and then in spring they managed to cross the border and now they're based in our Berlin office so and and the idea of that which is the idea of all the work that we do on Ukraine now is not so much only to we feel and they feel that in relation to the theater in Mariupol in relation to Babiniar and other places people don't know anything of Ukraine except of the images that we see now people did not even know a Kiev was maybe the architectural historians knew Kharkiv but so we use those strikes like needle probes they kind of like enter the ground and become like you know sort of like needle probes that allow us to see something of the history particularly with Babiniar it was important to understand exactly what was struck and what wasn't but also to expose that bit of history in a professional way using a kind of techniques that we shared with them so I'll show the video together with topographic maps sorry Maxim I'll narrate it the entire issue and the entire logic of the genocide that happened in Babiniar had to do with the topography of the site first it was a deep kind of ravine within the center of Kiev and this is why it became a shooting ground but because it was later filled the topography itself was the only lock the only anchor with which you could actually understand where the photographs that were taken of this massacre were because today the entire topography transformed that doesn't exist so initially we needed to reconstruct that exact topography as it was and as it evolved during that time and then only when you have this topography a precise way you can actually start locating the images the historical images within it and understand what was the where was the holding ground where people were asked to undress and where they were later taken and shot after they were shot after people were shot here the entire topography was collapsed on them so again the topography has changed the topographical changes are very much the logic so here everybody 30,000 people exist here in this ravine under that layer the entire topography is different and we needed to understand those transformation in order to locate the other images that were there and then of course the this is how the entire ravine after that at the time of the Soviet control of Ukraine was filled with earth and flattened so nothing of that topography remain and this is the reason people do not know what happened where I think Andrei you were working on that project it's a good do you know the center for spatial technology and Maxim and others they are all safe in office in Berlin now you'll be happy to learn this is a bit you know what maybe I should stop with this and so we have some time for conversation sorry for taking longer thank you very much for sharing all this body of work but also sharing where you are now and where your team is basically and I have a first question that is really about the limits of perception and what that is operating as a site for politics and this comes actually there's two works that you were discussing at different moments one is the clouds as very fast let's say realities that are difficult to perceive and then the very slow time of the earth in that archaeology fell off in a way in the process you presented both as a way to question the object or realities that somehow are in themselves difficult to characterize through the perspective of the object and those are the two sites where somehow politics are becoming quite invisible or violence is becoming very invisible and the work that you're presenting it's sort of trying to bring those if I'm not wrong those sites for politics accountable somehow or operating them so that those realities can be scrutinized and I wonder what is that that we that is behind these two moments of time that are exactly the scales of time where architecture tends not to work or not to operate or not to enable to basically find a way to operate as a discipline so I guess that that has to do with the attachment of architecture to structures of power in the way that your practice is short of questioning that or undoing that and I wonder what it means when you were bringing these images of the ground as the site of perspective and the earth as something that escaped the control perspective and well this is kind of the question the two times that the earth and the re as sites that escape the control of architecture and somehow aside for other forms of politics yeah I think this is great one has to think through this I want to start by saying that we have a certain kind of like diagram, temporal diagram that allows us to do this kind of navigation across time scales and we call it the long duration of a split second so whereas a lot of the cases of kinetic violence that we do like uncovering police murders or shooting, sniping, bombing etc there are split second moments and sometimes we would spend a year or two years on a second right so this you have this kind of like incredible sort of like condensation of time but then you ask yourself why does it matter to unpack to unravel the in such detail these moments and I think that for us okay so let me start again differently and then I'll connect there was this debate like 30 years ago maybe more between the sort of the historians of the long duration the sort of Marxist analysis school history beyond the human scale beyond the decisions of people in power princes and queens and whatever history of landscapes, history of vegetation migration of winds and water etc and then came you know as a critique of that sort of micro historians of Italian schools and now we're going to tell the stories of micro history not the story of people but not of the important people but the small people that are kind of being bulldozed by history how to find that faint voice of what records they live behind that was kind of if you like a certain variation of a post-modern critique of the modernism of the and for us it's the way into that debate between you know long-duration history and micro history is to say we do actually our entry point is always different molecular history it's not even micro it's not even the life of a person it's like a split second but you enter into that micro physics into the molecular level of time you find within it it's like a bundle of threads it's like a bundle of threads and then you take those threads and you start pulling them out and you start locating an incident in a world of which it is part and of course the incident has got all sort of things that play within it there's the city and it has its own temporality there's the temporality of course of a bullet shot of a sniper we work now on the Israeli sniper that killed the Shirena Bouakle in Janine you have the trees there you have you know sometimes you have the sky you have different things of different temporalities within that moment and that kind of idea of extending of placing an incident of understanding how the shadow of history how the long thread of history are kind of like really tightly bundled within it and opening it up is something that is very important but that needs labor it doesn't happen automatically not every incident is one you can navigate across scale of time and space and moving across those decisions and moving and navigating outward of the incident requires you know its own skill and own interpretive skill and then connecting it also to the scale of the earth or to the scale of the environment we do now work I cannot show because it's not finished but in November we would launch it and it's an investigation that we do with the Namibian foundation for the commemoration of the genocide the German genocide in Namibia something that happened in 1904 start in 1904 to 1908 it's the first not the first colonial genocide by no means but it's the first time that terms like systematic annihilation of course concentration camp comes from South Africa and from Cuba just before but the vocabulary of the holocaust like of the German holocaust is already written there and we've entered into this analysis working with Namibian partners on it and we realize that one of the most interesting transformation because we work you know what we do we take those late 19th century early 20th century photographs we locate them in space of different elements different stages of this destruction we see very clearly that what has been transformed we can only barely locate them by the ridge by the topography of that and what has been transformed is the environment the kind of trees that grow the kind of plants the desertification you know the distribution of different species within that so you know you take those photographs of a moment of destruction but there are also meteorological sensors those photographs because in each cone of vision you can map the distribution of plants and that contain information about the environment like the weather or the climate it was and it's no longer there so here you have a kind of like two temporalities that are opening now you see something happen to somebody in the foreground but in the background this is like the earth around the shard no it's the background and the traces of the colonial genocide in Namibia are written still in the landscape and in slow kind of transformation without the genocide that landscape transformation would not have been without explaining exactly how it went you have two or maybe more temporalities that are captured within the instance and what is important is to navigate continuously across these scales I want to ask a question but then I want to open it up because people have been I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of questions but just listening to your answer over here and thinking just about the incredible transformation in your practice it's so much bigger there's so many more cases you do so many I was just kind of overwhelmed by the all the different things you do so there's this human rights and forensics and then there's methods and accountability and you often say you're doing something for a court but it doesn't quite go to the court it doesn't seem and then when you as you describe a lot of the projects it's working on the project is so much a part of the work as you're working on it to discover what the project is as you do it which is very unusual it's not only it's not so much about the outcomes so I'm just curious where you and then your work is funded in so many different ways so I think maybe what you would call a commission somebody else would call a grant or that the work is funded and through the funding it's commissioned because people know of your organization right so I'm just curious what you where you see your most successful outcomes because it's not often you know the guilty innocent of the court and you know as your work has evolved and come so much bigger and done so many things where do you put yourself in that terrain yeah I don't know but I think that one of the aspects that we're learning is and it's again like let's go to the beginning of the talk I was showing organization declared terrorist group raided stuff is stolen from the computers Pegasus you know this malware is installed on people phone and all those people are doing is collecting evidence and that becomes a terrorist action in the kind of epistemological wars that we are finding ourselves within so it's not really like post truth this post truth that you know and this is a real kind of it's an understanding that you know when you know because from the point of view of Israeli occupation those groups should not do Palestinians should not work on these things you know and sometimes they would even allow human rights organization from somewhere else but it does not allow it's does not evolve into agency and I think that you know if you say that truth whatever it's kind of like the production truth practices let's say is producing a commons right like water like air I don't know like forest the way we think about commons that commons is a kind of a metapolitical condition that is held in place because there is a variety a very wide coalition operating from a multi-perspectival and weave together a certain fabric not fabric can change but these people produce information about a particular aspect of Palestinian reality you know to do this tradition of women, farmers, prisoners children etc no I mean those groups that were declared and there is a fabric woven because there is a project of describing reality and the very description of reality becomes all of a sudden you start understanding because it's a subversive thing because it's an imminent project and this is something that actually really empowers me to understand that the production of the reality of our world no like the huge endless project that is we all participating in describing the world in which we live simply describing it and combining one description with another is effectively a work that produced that commons and that whatever this dark epistemology that we are facing the dark epistemology of colonialism of you know Trumpism whatever fascism that we are facing it's trying to cut it apart try to isolate that it works on the interlinking between that that builds that so for me what is interesting right now is to think about the building of that description of the world whether it is colonialism or shooting in the street corner of a cloud here or there or how you produce that as community buildings as a way in which you know just like when you build a building there's a certain communities from around the people that actually constructed you know a building construct the community that constructed in a good saying hopefully but that is the act of building you know that is what is important rather than you know whether you know we've convicted some you know also of course that cannot work if you don't have the desire to for accountability is kind of giving you the trajectory the direction but the validation is in the way in which this sort of idea of open verification operates and open verification is something that is that emerges now no because otherwise you have either media is you know the mainstream media they have they work their kind of house one of the houses that tell the truth the university that this did that and now you know look at the war in Ukraine right I mean where do we you know if you if you want to know what happened in the counter offensive or in that in the you know like Twitter people are working like those kind of communities of builders are weaving together one sound file with one picture they geolocate they compose you know they do work of building from testimony and evidence and photo and you know good answer should we do the journal let's open it up any questions I forgot something to show I want to show something for Reinhard so there's one question there one here thank you Professor Wisman for your lecture your mic is not working right is it? yeah it's working now thank you Professor Wisman for your remarkable lecture I'm an urban planning student and I'm finishing my thesis based on your book Hololand thank you again for the lecture for even more clear and my personal question is not very directly related to the lecture however after I see you use machine learning and computer vision to recognize the tear gas cans and the tear gas grenades this question occurred to me like during the past years do you think the video games that related to the urban warfare have enhanced people's recognition or knowledge on urban warfare or does it romanticize the urban warfare and let people less like recognize it for example I know you have a close relationship like working with IDF officers IDF do you think like the current video games related to urban warfare have better soldiers or worse soldiers I don't know I know that they're using computer games to train people I was you know in one of our cases I think also many people here may know it was a neo-nazi murder in an internet café so a Nazi perpetrator enters and murder the German from migrant background owner of that internet café shoots him anyway there was a secret service agent there but while the murder took place there were two people playing call of duty where they were shooting Nazis now they were shooting Nazis on a computer game so intensely that they didn't hear the gunshots where a Nazi was killing one of their a friend of theirs at this moment maybe that is okay who was next yeah Steve everything that you've been doing for 20 years or so and like why is impressed by this expansion of your work but I want to sort of ask some sort of underlying questions about how you think about the institutions that you're operating in relation to and the sort of I guess this sort of underlying intellectual argument that you're making in relation to them premised on a notion of human rights is sort of an overarching sort of underlying theory that there's such a thing as human rights that institutions should enforce or that somehow politics should somehow result in human rights being you know maintained around the world and then you're sort of inserting yourself into these kind of mechanisms to try to hold them accountable to that claim and yeah there's something sort of despairing to me about the sort of narrowness in which your approach can act within this context especially if you think about the Israeli context of you know major work that you've done over the years to expose the degree of injustice and you know systemic nature of it and yet you see sort of you know these sort of marginal you know sort of exposure of information sometimes large exposure of information having you know no effect whatsoever because of the fragility of the institutions that deal with human rights I just want you to comment on those sort of methodological and outcome absolutely I completely recognize the limitations and problems in human rights discourse for us human rights when you are like in the site of conflict and you know you reach for what it is that you find on the ground right next to you near a stone so that's the human rights is like the kind of the stone we pick to throw at the state but of course it has it's not in itself if you'd say the value is liberation in a particular context and definitely in a context of Palestine liberation and equality human rights and human rights organizations are you know some of the most effective right now within this context and the kind of last line of defense against like well should I say outright fashion when actually it is already there so I don't know if it's a line of defense but the kind of like savior of some sort of dignity but not exclusively alongside social movement alongside other forms of struggle and resistance within that in terms of the limitations of law we at least feel that any forum that we present any medium we present whether it's university whether it's a court whether it's human rights whether it's journalism whether it's art is fucked up in a different way massively fucked up and you know in our attempt is to offset some of those you know inherent defects in each one and what defect limitations, constraints, different way in which power operates for them and produce within them is by not being in each any one particular hand and kind of navigating between those so the idea is not okay you know a sort of rejection of the world and institutions in it and kind of trying to find or even imagine that in critical academia we have a pure space to stand from but to understand that each one constrain you each one is a different formation of power knowledge and you need to struggle with them and against them at the same time if you show within the arts you know you need to help fight those mechanisms and you know whether it is in relation to documenta or in relation to our exhibition on that work cloud studies in Manchester where we were trying to bring in things led to the closure of our exhibition and through it's reopening etc. Each site is a site of struggle it's not a site that you can take for granted so you but I would you know if you would say as I would say sometimes we're too comfortable you know sometimes I go to cities I don't even know I'm going to see an exclusive like a forensic architecture piece and this and that you know like group show and I think it's crap I think it's not you know it's not always doing that work sometimes it's too complacent with it and you know we cannot you know sometimes we make mistakes we don't catch it on time and sometimes we just become addicted to like any organization we become addicted to the funding and we want to keep our labor no so we cannot like fluctuate so in a sense you become addicted to a level like any organization to a level of funding and start making compromises so sometimes you need to wake yourself up and say hold on what's going on here and with the art world right now is our main problem not the human rights world that you know those human rights organizations are considered terrorists etc but just the complacency that with political act slash activist art and the weight is consumed and the weight is used now I don't feel is where it needs to be and I think that we as an organization will have to evaluate our presence within it because I think it's gone you know out of control at this moment any other question yeah hi first of all thanks for the lecture wonderful I just can't stop to think about like you know the media and the use and the manipulation that goes all around we're living a very polarized world and each side to manipulate the media in their own way so I guess it's just how do you navigate that line right where now anyone can just manipulate data and change it very fast and the natural and the data kind of getting married together and I love how you mentioned unearthed in but how do you unearthed data I guess in the work right and you hold accountable accountability not only to those kind of committed physical crime but perhaps kind of like the digital crime which kind of takes me to like Facebook right and the whistleblowers and I don't know if anybody watch yeah the Twitter right what happened it is not as much traceable but yet I think it has the same effect both you know socially and politically surely you know there's two things I'm kind of now kind of like eating myself that I didn't show one is the work that I said I'll show on NSO and Pegasus and kind of showing how architect you know like something that is so non-architectural right maybe you could say everything is architectural but like you know hacking of phones understanding like spatial temporal patterns in it what it revealed and how it helped Amnesty and the Pegasus project and Citizen Lab actually you know bring down this company so I invite you to look on our website sorry or you know you'll let me name back what you want but second thing I'm eating myself because I put a clip for Reinhold I just it's kind of like something I wanted to show it's something about football and I should I should show it to him how it's completely not related to your question but I just have to say that I have one thing to say that I've said it to Al before he never uses the word data ever ever ever in any of his talks it's absent yeah why is it really interesting thing yeah it's really interesting it's true so that is this is true and then but I actually love this field of manipulation and fake and all this kind of like chaotic way in which truth is being produced now the kind of the open way in which of truth production I don't think that the way to confront that's like dark epistemology is to buttress the old institutions you know like to kind of like donate to the New York Times and make sure that those like pillars of our society are standing I think it's great that they're collapsing and they're in crisis and something else much more imminent is emerging and I love that field of conflict and I think that this is you know has its own problems and its own chaos and its own manipulation but it's really an exhilarating field in which you know people do not consume but continuously fight over facts and if you understand it's unparalleled the kind of involvement of people in factual research in acts of reification in that kind of description of the world around them etc and fighting with others is something that I you know probably there's some historical precedent but I don't know about it and the thing with Reinhold that I wanted to show I kind of said okay I'll put this clip in can I show it to finish just short or is that is a more question yeah go ahead if someone has another question while he's pulling it up so the context is investigation we've just finished another horrible racist murder that took place in Germany in a series of cafes where another Nazi once again next to Castle in the same state in Germany has entered into that cafe and a series of cafes in fact one next to the other and murdered nine people and the thing was how those cafes were overpoliced now Germany and the killing took place on the 19th of February 2020 how the police fucked up the rescue operation okay so fucked up the rescue operation so badly after knowing every gram of hash this is changing hand within this cafe they completely lose the perpetrator they don't know where they go they have all the gear in the air including a helicopter and the helicopter footage became one of the most important thing in their case or explanation why they didn't find it and we figured out something very simple that the helicopter timecode was manipulated was wrong it wasn't the right time in the helicopter footage and the problem was to find when the helicopter was flying and now I wouldn't go into the case but imagine a case depends on the a lot depends on when the helicopter is flying in the air okay you don't know when the helicopter is flying in the air this is for Reinhardt this is for Reinhardt so okay here it goes where is my cursor is it no I cannot get my how to get ah here it is okay so here we go okay it's not that great but it's for Reinhardt so this is this is the footage of the helicopter and the time is wrong and then what we do is like we realize we have a CCTV from the bar and we see that there are two people in the helicopter footage you see the two people in the CCTV so is it no so the time in the helicopter footage is the time in a CCTV camera in the bar where the killing took place but it's not wrong the CCTV and only thing that happened we could see at the background a football game and very faint in the background and then we figure out what football game it was and then we find the goal in the CCTV and in in there and the goal actually synchronized because we had the Facebook live of that synchronize the CCTV bar which synchronized the helicopter and imagine going to the German police and say here's the right time you liars about the things here is how we did it so you know I just thought that kind of maybe it's a good time