 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. This is Friday, our ask and answer is Jarrett Ransom, my co-host always likes to call it, Friday. And today we're really excited because we have Pearl Hoagland, who is the actual director of Fundraising Academy at National University. So she's like what we like to call in my family, the Grand Caso. Welcome. I like it. Thanks for having me. Hey Pearl, this is really fun. We were saying in the green room chatter that we have your team members on. They do amazing work for us. They bring us a different vibe, different information. And so it's really cool to have you take time out of your super busy schedule to come and talk to us. And I'm really appreciative of that. I'm hoping that we get to have you on more and more as our months go forward. And I think we're going to wrangle you into more episodes. So what say you on that? I'm ready for it. Okay, again, I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined by Pearl Hoagland. We want to make sure we thank all of our presenting sponsors, Bloom Rang, American nonprofit academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit nerd, Fundraising Academy at National University, staffing boutique, and nonprofit thought leader. If you have missed any of our episodes or you want to share some of our episodes, you can always get to more than 600 episodes on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, Vimeo, and we are awesome now in podcast. So we have close to a couple hundred of our episodes now on podcast format. And every episode that we do is actually converted into a podcast now. So queue us up wherever you like to get your streaming and we'll be with you. Okay, Pearl, we're going to start with a question that came in for you and I thought this was really interesting. Now I got a man up and say that this was actually asked of me personally. I was at an event where the AFP group of my community was gathering and going over the giving USA report and somebody came up to me and said, hey, Julia, how does this happen? And I said, well, I don't know, but I know who knows. So long story, let's get to the question. How does one go about becoming a trainer for Fundraising Academy? The system is quite sound and something other development professionals need to know about. Also, could I do this and keep my current job? I love this question. I just, it's so nice to hear experts in the field want to be a part of our program because I love this program. So yes, first of all, we absolutely have instructor opportunities by doing, you just connect with me and we can absolutely share my contact information. And yes, you can keep your current job. So the way that we work with fundraising leaders is we have webinars that we offer that are free every single month. Sometimes we have workshops, trainings, and we really like to have diverse voices. So having different instructors allows us, as you were saying earlier, Julia, getting different perspectives from the field. It brings life to our curriculum and it helps our students hear from different voices, hear from different perspectives and identify with something. So connect with me. It's not full time. It's when you're available and we can talk about a webinar, whatever that looks like. So yes, we would love to work with you. So let me ask a few more questions about that. Are you now more in a digital environment versus going to actual communities and doing this, you know, IRL in real life, or how has your instructing methodology changed? That's a great question. In the last two years, yes, we have really leaned into digital. However, we still offer live. So we can offer a virtual, if we have 30 people in a certain region that want to go through our online cause selling accelerate, for example, we can make that happen. We also have affiliate partners who have programs around that will offer them to the community. So the decisions we make about in person versus virtual right now are really around protocols, safety, comfort levels, but I will share it. We do have an online cause selling accelerate that we are accepting applications for that right September. Right, which we want to get into. Let me ask you this. Are you looking for like when you work in this environment, are you looking for people that let's say are specific to a certain sector within the nonprofit, you know, we generally think there are nine sectors with, you know, you know, drill downs within the nonprofit world. I mean, are you looking for people that say that are from arts and culture versus science versus education, or what does that look like? It's a great question. We want anyone if you are a seasoned fundraiser and can really speak to individual giving, I will share some of the things that are important to us are organizational size, partially because there are different tools that you use, potentially different experiences and representation is so important to us in every single way, including geographic. So yes, yes, yes, yes. It's so interesting because this country of ours is so diverse and different and it has its own funky nuances. Yeah. So I'll tell you for me personally, that's one of the things that's interesting about the nonprofit show for me is that when we have guests on from different parts of the country and the world even, but especially in our own country, they say different things and things work a little differently in their region. And so I was kind of just, that was more my own curiosity. So name yourself from Mesa, Arizona. I know who you are. I hope that this helps you out. And then I hope we are able to connect you up with Pearl. Okay. Well, that was really cool and an unexpected question, but thank you Pearl for sharing kind of the insider track. Hey, Adam from Las Vegas writes, should we reporting be reporting our DEI diversity, equity and inclusion stats to stakeholders? We are starting a transparency tab on our website. And I think this might be good info. This is not flying with some of our leadership. They think it's too personal and identifies people. Wow. That's kind of an interesting thought. What do you, what do you say on this? I love the convert that the conversation is happening. I have lots of questions. One, I would love to know, first of all, I'm excited to hear that you want to have this transparency. I'd love to know the intention behind the transparency, just having that candid conversation of one, why does the organization want to post it? Is it because we want to ensure that transparency? Is it PR just to really know what your intention is and hold true to it so that if you are committed to DEI and you're taking those steps, you're taking those steps intentionally. As in regards to leadership, I would have a candid conversation about, are we serious about this or not? And depending on who that leadership is, if it's the board, is it still the right fit for your organization's direction? If it's your leadership, is the organization going in the direction you want to go in? I think a lot of questions have to be asked. If this is going to really help your community. Gosh, that's awesome. And I really hope that you and leadership can get on the same page and make them have that step. I can't, I don't know what the downside is of posting steps. I'll share that. I think it's wonderful. Okay, that's right there. That's an interesting comment for me. Well, when I read this question, my thought of Chris Babalock, who was a guest of ours on the nonprofit show several weeks ago with Chazen & Company. And we also did a series of instructional videos for Chazen & Company called Counting on Chazen. And one of the things that they recommended, and he was really behind, was a transparency page. But what was fascinating is, and this is because they're accountants, it was all financial transparency. Right. Which is great. But you know, I got to say, I hadn't looked at it this way. I hadn't thought about all these other things that you want to report, but that they might not have a home. Yeah. But they're calling for support. I think, you know, as we're talking about this, my other question is, it sounds like this organization is doing work in marginalized communities potentially. So if doing this is going to do good for them, or will it do, that's really, that's honestly, I think the biggest question. What is your end game in doing this? It sounds like it's a wonderful initiative. Yeah. How will it impact the communities you serve? Is leadership in the position to make that determination, or are there other people you need to speak with to understand what this impact will be? I think that's the main thing is, where is leadership coming from really? And yeah. Do you think maybe leadership's embarrassed or they don't feel like their numbers are good? And so that's why they don't want to share it. You know, it could be that. I didn't know if it was based on stakeholders. I wasn't sure if that's a good question. I mean, let's be honest. Wow. Yeah. I remember years ago, I was doing a board training and for a group and they served a Hispanic population. And the board called me in and I was at their offices and they were a pretty significant organization. And they did not have one person on their board that could speak Spanish. I was about to ask, what is the representation on the board? And that was like, don't miss that. I was like, hello. And you know what? They had never thought of it. Yeah. I mean, you know, so it wasn't malicious. It wasn't, it wasn't without intention. I think it was without attention, meaning they hadn't attended to the knowledge of us and they were doing great work, but wow. Yeah. It's such an important conversation when you're speaking and you're doing work are the people that you're working with, a part of your organization and a part of the decision making. Absolutely. Because then those, those spots, those blind spots, hopefully you don't have those, or maybe you still do, but at least you have the people in the room who may be more informed about certain things than you are. Right. Yeah. It's fascinating. Well, Adam, I really hope that this has kind of given you some help and given you some ideas. I mean, I love, as Pearl mentioned, that you're starting a transparency tab on your website. And I really encourage us as a sector to be looking at this. It can go so far and we really need to hear back from you, Adam, to see what, what has transpired because for you. Wow. Okay. Let's go to another open name withheld from St. Petersburg, Florida. Okay. I do not know this. So would you please give us a salary range for development officers? We're trying to become more competitive in our salaries and benefit packages. Well, yay team. Looking at this. Yes. Wow. Okay. Pearl, I have no idea. I got a man. I can't, I can't really participate in this other than to say, don't get caught up in the actual dollar amount of what that salary is, but really, really pay attention to the benefits. And those benefits that we're seeing that seem to spark more interest, personal development, more work from home opportunities, training, travel. I mean, things that, that make the ecosystem better. And I don't know what you're seeing, but I'd love to get your feedback on this. Yeah, exactly what I was going to say. And also do your name withheld. Thank you because clearly the culture that you're creating at your organization is one that many would want to be a part of. I agree with you, Julia. And back to the question of a salary range. It's so dependent on your location, your organizational size, cost of living. There's so many different factors that could inform that range. There are two resources that I'd like to help point you in the direction of which our AFP has a compensation report and Candid also does Candid.org. Yeah, okay, great. Yeah, but I'm talking about the benefits. I agree with you. Some of an organization may not be able to meet the salary that their candidate wants, but what other benefits could then tip the scale, like you said, flexibility, culture of the organization, opportunities for development and growth. There's so many different things that if an organization really is tied to a certain number to be open to creating an experience and a package as we say that that candidate would want. Yeah, you know, I never thought about using that word culture in this discussion. And I like that, like talking about what is it on a humanistic level that you can expect to be in what kind of environment, you know, how is it going to feed your soul and your family? Yeah, exactly. I think that's a cool thing. And wow, what an interesting thing to articulate in a narrative on a job description, you know, and a job offer. And wow, I don't even know if I really can say I've seen that very much. One thing I will share that in my role serving on our local AFP board is there's a lot of discussion about transparency with job descriptions. So one more thing to think about as you post a job description, think through transparency with your salary. Can you just put it straight into the job description and what that competitive package looks like? And think through what pools you're accessing to. What are you requiring in your job description? Are you creating an accessible job description that will really bring in a diverse strong pool? So things like that, just to consider as you're hiring, where this, who are you opening this up to? And what talent can you get with that? Right, right. Which I would imagine, Pearl, for some organizations, that's going to be a little bit of a stretch and maybe uncomfortable. Yeah, absolutely. And it's not a one-size-fits-all, of course. So when you're thinking about development officers, I mean, and this person from St. Petersburg, Florida writes specifically for a development team, what are your thoughts getting just really different people to make up that team so that you have representation or following more towards like-minded people who are kind of trained up at that same level as the rest of your team? I don't know, you know, the answer to that. I don't. Well, I have thoughts and questions. I think it does depend on mission. I think the mission alignment and soft skills are so important. Can the technical skills, can they be trained? Okay. So I personally, soft skills drive the connection between people. Can they work together and a connection to the mission? I would say for me, I look to that first. Of course, technical experience is important. But when you're looking at it all, it's not the only part of the equation. Right, yeah. You know, I like that you pointed that out. I think that's really, that's awesome. Because the other thing of it is, it's like bringing in, you know, a new sibling into your family. When you bring somebody in, it's like, you know, is this family going to be happy? I mean, don't you think? Oh, yeah. I know that, you know, development teams, they work independently a lot and all that. But man, I think those teams can be really, you know. Oh, yeah. Oh, you have to, I mean, you have to be, you have to respect each other because donors will see that, other staff will see that and that will impact the culture. And you spend a lot of time together, even if it's virtually, you spend a lot of time together. You need to enjoy working together and at least respect each other. Right. So before I go off this, I have had a couple, it seems like it had fallen out of favor and now it's back in favor. I've been hearing more and more about teams that are actually, let's say HR, if it's that big of an organization or the hiring manager gets the candidates, you know, that they narrow it down, figure out who's the best, and then they're putting those people in front of the actual team and getting them to interview, which, you know, is one, I think is great, but in the other way, those teams aren't necessarily trained or knowledgeable of how to do this process. So can you give us some feedback on what you thought about that? Yeah. So knowing that I've, so I've been a part of that. I've definitely been in both types of environments. Personally, I have, I have enjoyed the, where you do meet the team prior and you kind of get to see, of course, HR can provide very specific guidelines. You want to be sure that everyone knows what, what to do and what not to do. But you want to see if people can, can get a long because for both the candidate and the team, if it's clearly not the right fit is you're going to be spending a lot of money in hiring and then rehiring. So personally, I think it's a really great, here's my question. What are you worried about with the team and why are you worried about that? Because if you're concerned about how they're going to handle that situation, they're handling donors. So I like it. Well, and you know, it almost speaks to, you know, can you, can you do a mini train up on what that looks like and what's appropriate to ask and why are you doing this? And to your point, I love that you phrased that, you know, ask the question why and what's the, the genesis of that decision. But yeah, I think it's an interesting way to go and good for, like you said, good for them for trying to figure out what's going to make them better and stronger. And maybe that next level is to dig a little deeper and figure out what the health of the team, because shoot, that, that's a big problem in development, I think. I really, really am. I really do think that. Okay. Well, let's go on to our next question. And, and it's an interesting one. It comes to us from Lily in Rochester, New York. We're considering making a CFRE designation a requirement in development job descriptions. We're trying to expand our development staff and not sure if this should be a requirement or not. Also, we don't want to limit the market available for application. Well, CFRE is probably got pockets like where in a community it's stronger and more, you know, I don't use the word popular, but, you know, part of the journey versus other communities. Yeah. So first of all, Lily, I'm glad you're asking the question before moving forward. So we are a CFRE education provider. We, I believe in, I believe it's really wonderful for your career to get the CFRE. So just as a side note there, I really support people pursuing their CFRE. A lot of our instructors have pursued their CFRE. And when you go through our programs, you earn education points towards it. So all that to say. I'm a fan of the CFRE. I also recognize it's not the most accessible for everyone. Getting the education that you need to be really expensive, which is why we offer it for low cost. But, and on top of that, you have specific fundraising benchmarks you have to meet, and then you have to pass a test, which I've heard is very challenging. It's funny. I was talking actually, I've, our team, we talk a lot about all these questions that we've talked about. We have had these conversations. So a lot of what I've shared has actually come from the knowledge of my team. And one person recently, we were talking about the CFRE and they mentioned, not everyone's a good test taker. So if you limit, and it's expensive. So my question actually would be instead of, yes, you absolutely will limit your, your application pool and people who don't pursue the CFRE, have incredible experience that they could contribute to your organization. Besides being a wonderful test taker and having gone through that process. Right. Are you just maybe consider instead of doing this, are you making CFRE an option for your staff? Are you paying for it? Are you supporting if they want to pursue it? Wow. I could actually take a look at your, at your own educational opportunities and consider, instead of this route, maybe try to up, up skill your staff unless you're already doing it. But that would be my first question. You could say CFRE preferred. Yeah, I love that. So let's set back up certified fundraising executive. So it is a professional global organization. They're super strong in the US and Canada, but they are growing in Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. Obviously any group that speaks English, you know, but I think they also have a, a foothold. I don't know if this is right or wrong, but now like in Korea. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. You know what? I need to verify that, but I think I did hear that. But I like that you're saying that is, you know, making it accessible to that educational point of it to kind of help go back even to the previous question about what questions about benefits and opportunities that could be part of your, your package. In other words saying, look, we support this. How amazing would that be if you could offer that? Yeah. Yeah. And one quick thing before we move on. I think it's really an interesting thing to understand how you're going to, as an organization, are you going to pay for these things? Are you going to reimburse? Are you going to match? Are you going to, you know, adjust the salary? You're going to have to kind of think about some of these things because it's a pretty big discussion. It really, really is. Wow, Lily. Thank you. Um, I, I'm fascinated by those questions. And again, I think you need to know what's going on in your, your neck of the woods. I really, really do. Um, Pearl, before we let you go, I would love it if you could talk briefly. We don't have a lot of time, but about your new cohort that's coming up. Um, because I'm fascinated by this. Talk to us about what the cause selling accelerator is. Yes, absolutely. And I'll do it quickly because I know we're, we're short on time, but to share about why we even have this program, um, we've talked a little bit about organizational budgets and often professional development budgets are, uh, the most challenging for organizations to retain. Those limited funds tend in my experience to be allocated more for senior level staff. So that leaves the new generation of fundraisers who are new to this role, uh, need to want to learn and often have to learn on the job or learn from their leaders who had to learn on the job. So sometimes that habits can be formed. Um, and I kind of consider it a professional development desert for emerging fundraising leaders. There's a lot of great professional development out there, often a financial, huge financial investment and not necessarily designed for the emerging fundraiser. It's things that you, I remember walking out and saying, this would be so wonderful for me in five years when I'm leading my team or, um, but so this online cause selling accelerate is designed to give you tools right now. You can literally leave you every single session and do everything you learned in, in that session. Um, it's for emerging fundraising leaders. It's a 10 week course. There is out of session work and every session is live. It builds off of everything you learn so that you can really action out how you're going to apply it to your role. Um, I went through this program as a fundraiser seven years ago and before I joined the team and it was transformational for my career. I'll just share that I graduated from this program and made my first half million dollar. A successful ask from a donor who was not even engaged and not even at the $5,000. And it was because of this program. So I just want a test to the success of this, of this program. Um, so it's a 10 week course. We are extending the deadline. We have a few spots available and we want to fill it fully so that it's a true cohort experience. Sessions begin September 13th. I have amazing team members who are available. I can answer questions. They can answer questions. Um, but yeah, it's you basically join a cohort of 30 people who will validate the experiences you're having. We'll have new experiences and best practices they can share and our incredible instructor, Hannah Berger will be leading the full cohort. Great. And just to kind of amplify what you've said, um, you have to apply. You're not just taking any live body. So you're really building a cohort in that you're trying to figure out when you plug in the participants, that it's going to be a good fit for everyone. Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. And we definitely accept a wide variety of backgrounds and experiences. We just want to be sure it's the right fit for the cohort and that participant. Right. Now you said that the deadlines moved forward. What's that new deadline? Do you know? It is now September 6th. Okay. Awesome. We're pushing it all the way back just to. Allow every, you know, enough time. I will also say that it's all around individual giving. So how to bring more donors to your organization. Okay. Awesome. Okay. Cool. Well, you know, um, Hannah burger, I think she was just on last week, she's been great. And so yeah, I can't imagine what a great experience. That's going to be 10 weeks. Offsite work is entailed. And then you get to be with that group. I kind of imagine that maybe you build some com, camaraderie that goes beyond that 10 weeks. Right. I mean, I did, I took the program seven years ago and I'm still connected to a lot of my cohort peers. So I think that's just a strong network that forms. Surprisingly, through this virtual world, it hasn't impacted that ability to develop those relationships and the national peer set too. Yeah, I love that. I think that's super important. Well, Pearl Huggland director, fundraising academy at national university. She has been our ask and answer guru today. And it has been such a joy to have you on with us. I always love your energy and, um, the spirit with which you tackle these questions and you look at our sector, um, organically and as a whole, it's really fabulous. You know, I love every one of your team members. It's always a cool thing. Um, and what's really interesting is they're all very different. They're all very different. I love that. You know, they're not just, um, they're not just kind of saying the same thing out of the book, so to speak. And they, they have their own genuine approach, but it fits into, um, the culture of what you do. And so, wow, what an incredible, um, and rare treat that is to be a part of. Again, we want to thank all of our sponsors who are with us day in and day out, Blumerang American nonprofit academy, your part time controller, nonprofit nerd, fundraising academy at national university, staffing boutique and nonprofit thought leader. These are the folks that join us day in and day out so that we can bring you more than 600 episodes of the nonprofit show. So we are incredibly, incredibly grateful for this support. And as we march forward into another busy time of the year, it's even more important that we thank these sponsors. Hey, Pearl, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, I'm totally jazz and excited. I have, um, I have a meeting at one o'clock with a fundraising, um, executive who just called me up and said, you know, can you have lunch? And can we talk about a few things? And I'm going to use some of the things that you said today at this lunch because I think it's been really enlightening and it just kind of the stars aligned. So that'll be fun. Oh, I'm so glad. Thank you. Hey, everybody, as we like to remind everybody, and I think ourselves, stay well so you can do well. Pearl, thank you so much.