 Our chat subject today is Mr. Bob Rastas. Welcome and welcome to the chats. Good day Doug. Lovely to see you. Lovely to catch up to you face to face. Thank you very much. Tell us a little bit about your early years because you were a military brat. I was indeed. In fact, I've just returned yesterday from a trip to Singapore and Malaysia, revisiting a lot of my childhood. While things have changed a lot in 45 years, I think that going back there are elements of familiarity and everything that were there, from the smells to the fruits to the food, but going back to my childhood homes and getting those real pans of memory reminded me that I was very, very fortunate to be brought up that way. One of the discussions I had with someone was that I don't actually understand racism. While I know what it is, I don't intrinsically in myself understand what it is to dislike someone or hate someone just because of their skin color, color creed or whatever, which I think is a blessing for me. My best little friend when I was seven or eight was a Chinese lad. And of course, had I known what I know now, the Chinese at that time were the lower echelon within Singapore. So I very much am fortunate to do that. I'm very much fortunate to have moved around a bit and to be exposed to different cultures. And I think it's just made me a far more open individual. And I'm grateful for it, albeit that it was very difficult at the time moving regularly. Why did you allow 45 years to go by before returning there? In the last week I've been questioning that. And I think it's just that life gets in the way. I've wanted to go back. And the main driver for that was that my wife has never traveled into Asia. We're planning to go to Morocco next year. So I wanted to introduce her into other parts, particularly some parts of a country that's not third world, but will eliminate some of the culture shock that you get from going through the likes of Turkey and Morocco and India. So that was a driver for now. But why did I take so long? I think life just gets in the way between throughout having a career. Just finding that eight hours of jump on a plane to go across there and come back was difficult. But if I'm to lament, I probably should have done it 20 or 30 years ago. How did you find your previous home places? Well, they both exist, which is unusual. One in a very, very busy part of Serangoon Gardens. While the privacy fencing is not there, the house is still, even at four years of age, I have very strong memories of that. But the other house where I was ages seven through nine, it has not changed. A thing has not changed on the house except for air conditioning units on the other side. So modernisation there. The other side of the road, however, where there were a couple of houses, used to be all rubber plantation. And down the end of the road was a kampong, which is a village, if you like. There are no kampongs left in Singapore. It's now all high, high rise accommodation. So that has changed. And the big thing for me is the old monsoon drains, which are very, very big drains to carry rainwater away. They're all pretty much covered up now. So that area, don't play in the monsoon drains because you'll die isn't a problem. But it was remarkable to go back. My biggest thing that I take as standing there to take photos of the house was the fence that I thought was 10 foot tall is only 5 foot tall. So there'd be the difference in height. Well, you were also a Navy sailor. Tell us about what the Navy taught you. I joined the Navy as a boy sailor basically as an apprentice. My life in the Navy was not good. I've since worked out that what happened to me in the Navy essentially was sexual assault. But at the time I was a willing participant in it. So I think that's one of the reasons why consent for me is such a huge thing. I wasn't actually at a time in my life where I could have given informed consent. I was actually being manipulated by older people, male and female. But at the time I was a willing participant. But that's where the difference in power comes from. That's why I have such an interest these days I think now in what power exchange really is and whether that consent can be informed and willingly given to participate. It made me grow up very, very quickly and I became far more worldly than I thought. Well, I realised I became far more worldly through that experience. I don't regret it, but it wasn't nice. And I now have a business which makes wall mounted plaques for Navy ships. And their crests and whatnot. I share that business with a very dear friend of mine and his spouse and my wife. And the thing that I love most about it is getting in touch. When older sailors get in touch we can have a talk. And the big part of what we do is not just making stuff but connecting. And helping people with honours and awards or finding advocacy for their veterans affairs claims and things like that. That's an added benefit. But I think that time in the Navy, it is troubling to think back on it. But I think back on it also with a degree of fondness. But I had no desire to ever connect back with Navy again. But my business has caused that to occur and I'm really enjoying it. Do you care to fill in the audience a little bit about what happened? You've alluded to it but haven't actually said it. I joined just after my 16th birthday. You cannot join the Navy at that age anymore. The conventions around child soldiers now prevents junior recruits and apprentices at that age. But basically offers were being made for physical relief and arousal. And you know, God I'd fuck anything that moves if it didn't move I'd kick it. But male-female it really didn't matter at that time, albeit that it was very, very hidden. And looking back it was an awful lot of manipulation. At the time it was, hey, someone likes me. So yeah, it was very much physical. It was very much getting involved in sexual contact, sexuality. Yeah, it's pretty hard to put things back into place there but it was anything went. I think it was the first time that I, in any manner, shape or form, experienced being bound. And I did enjoy that in my mind but I looked back on it and wondered what I was enjoying. So yeah, a bit wary on that. So yeah, that's what went on and there was quite an age difference and more to the point there were some rank differences too. So very much inappropriate behaviour. As I said, had I been presented with the same thing at the same age of what I knew I'd still be involved. But it's only with the benefit of hindsight to work out that it was a manipulation and that consent couldn't actually be deemed. Got it. I'd like to take a step back and explore the concept of racism with you because when we prepared for this chat that was a very strong topic for you and you've alluded to it having just revisited Singapore and Malaysia. Talk with us more about that. I genuinely do not have in me the ability to dislike someone just because of where they come from, what they believe in. It just isn't within me. And I think part of that was that this ready acceptance of everything that was going on around me. As we were driving down one of the highways there was a rather large, in one of the religions in Singapore, funnels are very bright, very colourful, very noisy. And when they're in the funeral possession there's noises and cymbals and drums and people waving flags and banners and it's to scare the evil spirits off. Oh I see. And the cast is there and they're multi-storey herces, not like we're used to of the somber dark. When you're exposed to things like that and you accept it as being, oh this is what happens, alright. Being woken in the morning for the call to prayer. Probably one of the first monogreens they ever heard was white bum, being what my ear was hearing in that particular call to prayer and all of us kids called it white bum. It's just one of those things. What does that mean? Well I don't know but the words in the language of call to prayer sounded like white bum to me and it probably was alakum or something like that. So we just accept this as what it is and accepting the fruit of the food, the food, the people, the fact that someone will at some point in time in a park lay a mat down and then bow in a direction. I've worked out where Mecca was way before anyone else did because of the orientation of where people were facing to pray, not because of their religion. Now I'm essentially not religious. I don't commit to any form of religion apart from being nice to one another or nasty when people ask for it appropriately. But it's one of those things where when you're exposed at a young age and particularly the only thing I really had an issue with were New Zealanders because of the rugby and it was a sport related thing because all the adults around me were really getting upset about what was going on at the rugby when we were playing the Kiwis and I think that was the only time I really looked at anything from a nation or a country point of view to go well there's a bit of conflict here but anything else, it just sits so well with me. So I struggle a lot. I admire people that are of a belief or have a religious belief or who have the ability to commit to an unknown so strongly that they but then I struggle in the converse with that when they then decide to make their belief and try and force it on them. So I struggle with that as well. But acceptance of people is who they are if they're an asshole I'm not going to like you. I don't care what colour creed or whatever but if you're nice, again I don't care who you are so I do enjoy that freedom of it and it applies to all aspects of life not just race, not just religion, not colour, not creed but sexuality, the lot. I judge people on what I see and what I hear and even then I try not to be judgy-wudgy about it. It's one of those things where you just go I try and understand what the motivation is for someone to behave like that but that's only coming the last 10 years really. I've grown. I often imagine what it would be like to have what's in my head now at the age of 23 or 24 and I think my head would have exploded but now I've got the life experience to carry forward here and go hmmm that's what's going on in my life maybe I shouldn't be reacting this way but if their behaviour is poor I'll call them out on it as well. It's not appropriate to treat me like shit just because you're feeling bad I'll let you know and if you like that and you're good with that then we'll become better friends. You go away. You're not going to add value to my life. That's sort of where that whole issue of racism comes from or lack thereof and bottom line don't be an arse and I won't be an arse. Sounds good to me. But taking a step even further back you had some very early BDSM exploration in your life. At one point you tied a girl to a laundry pole. Tell us about that. Cowboys and Indians. Okay. Goody good guys, bad guys, whatever but on this particular day it was actually the niece of our next door neighbours at the time and we were playing something like Cowboys and Indians and I had a couple of skipping ropes and I tied her up to the post and the whole you know the Penelope pit stop out of of wacky races. Well, this was going on and for some reason I remember that really, really clearly and I also remember that and I must have been 12 or 13 pre-pubescent thereabouts and the feeling that I got out of that. Which was? I can't tell you apart from it was a feeling and I'm not sure that I would say that it stirred my loins but it probably did if I'm remembering that but it really generated this feeling of I like this. Okay. Possibly one of my first emotional links into topping. My first emotional link into that applying control, applying and we went on to experiment with each other for a long time or a long time or that time is probably a year but truly one of those times that I I remember that feeling of oh, this is good and whatever good was at the time. Whatever good was and it was very, very powerful. I still remember the day I still remember the furniture that was there the outdoor setting where she was that it was middle of the morning and possibly even how the sun fell across her face and her body Wow. That's how powerful that moment was so I keyed into something that existed in me already I'm sure How did she take all of this? Well she didn't object she was more than happy to be tied up again in the future I've never seen her again Oh wow, okay. After that particular period of time of living there but there was never any distress on her part from a parent foe and and she would all somehow I think she manipulated the circumstances to be in that position Aha Okay. Maybe my first experience of topping from the bottom, who knows but you've said your journey into Kink was a series of happy accidents. What do you mean by that? I after I left the Navy as a result of an accident where I was struck by a car and discharged medically on the fit I then started working in sales because that's all of like getting to a young age and I had a happy coincidence where I met a lady who I think was 24 or 26 or roughly at the time who decided that I was her toy now of course I didn't mind this Okay. I didn't mind it on the basis that it was very much consensual that she was teaching me that she was being very direct in what she wanted and I was learning from it and then she started broaching a subject around some of the different things including aspects that I now recognize being very much BDSM being very much leather, being very much okay that formal submission dominance deal and then she took me to a party. Okay. I walked into this place I would never have found this without her well never have found it at the time without her because this was early 80s okay about the only way you found this world at that time was from word of mouth and I wasn't worldly enough to know what to ask for but she got it she took me there and I went into this place and it was full of people engaging in these really amazing things not sexual but there were people on crosses there were people bound and tied up a bit of human furniture in the corner which I sat there and watched with amazement as for an hour this bottom had a table top on their back and people were taking drinks from them and I could only imagine how the knees must have been killing them. Do you know I can't even remember if they were male or female but walking into this place my senses were overloaded and then she took me in there and put me on a cross and just gently played with it and said can you do that? I can do that showed me how to do some things and then we started playing in a way that became fairly intense very very quickly actually let me change it it became very intense very very quickly and opened the door to the world of BDSM more to the point it opened up that part of me that was really struggling to come out and that was Bob Dominant Bob who had a need to be a sadist and at the time here I am as a young Ambo young ambulance officer who the dichotomy of my mind you go out and help people yet in your pleasure you want to hurt people but the big difference is of course with that idea of have you ever hurt someone in play that ever wanted to be hurt and that is the difference there is only one instance where I have ever inflicted pain upon someone who didn't ask for it and it was in my work as an Ambo, someone who bullied me terribly in school and I hurt them badly I still feel guilty about that I still understand why I did it but the look on his face as I stuck my thumb into an open wound and caused him some pain I still remember the look and that look of fear that was in his face and I never ever want to visit that again and it is only in the last three or four years that I have actually put that to bed a bit so I can talk about that so there are these things that have happened in my life which have reinforced what my BDSM life is around again consent around not doing harm yes I am regarded very much as an edge player I do play on the edge I do work really out there the things that people find quite squeamish I don't play publicly anymore because of where I work and what I do but one of the big public players was a Breast Curing which was for this part of the world pretty intense sure and I'm as much a performer as I am a dominer as a sadist or whatever and I love that but I can't go back there anymore not with what I do for living not the role that I hold in my job now you mean publicly privately held but even then I went through a period of time where my play was getting more and more extreme blood it's something I love blood I had someone come up to me one day and said hey Bob I want to get castrated I really want to do that oh yeah okay and I went home and I opened the anatomy and physiology physiology books my other reference materials and as I'm doing I think what the fuck are you thinking it was at that point in time where I go I think you know about cross the line don't do this so I didn't I went back to this particular fella and said look this is not something I can do I can do it but I'm not going to do it and the reason why is but I do know a GP that I'd love to refer you to to get you to go and see and talk about this because I think that they can help you over a period of the next year or so through that GP through some psychological work and a surgeon they end up getting done what needed to be done for this guy but I was that close to crossing that line and doing this because it's not hard God I've castrated more sheep than I care to remember I've castrated more cattle than I care it's not hard except I wouldn't reach down with the teeth yeah yeah it's not a hard thing to do but it's the wrong thing to do and without knowing where this particular person was psychologically how could I do that without potentially doing harm yeah so put them on the pathway the right pathway so yeah it's you get so embedded in in what you're doing and so full of yourself at times about what you potentially can do and what you can and how far you can push this thing and I'm really really fortunate something in my mind went click no this is the point you need to stop so I backed off and stayed out of doing anything for six months to try and re to try and recalibrate okay okay and then you get to the point in time where you just gotta do it again and I'm really fortunate I've been able to do that so they've been I got into the scene by accident through the guidance of a lady I then have continued through I was out of it for a while and we got back into it again back in the late 80s early 90s and but it's always been around this core part of me that is is primarily a sadist the control sadist I've never ever let the inner being run free because I'm worried about what that could mean but I also have just recently recommenced a dominant submissive relationship with another person and I'm very very comfortable in it now we have a delightful relationship that is developing slowly I think the one thing that I've learned in the last decade is that going in boots and all is often counter-intuitive to what it means in the long run and to develop those relationships in particular making sure that my prime relationship is nurtured and cared for sure that that you get far better outcomes in the long run what is it about blood that so interests you because your your entire demeanor changes when you discuss that topic it's a visceral reaction for me I don't in my work I don't get that but in play I get it that when I'm blood bonded with someone and I can play with blood with my bare hands and there is nothing like that sensation for me that sensation of the slip in this of the blood as it starts to congeal and then how it becomes a little more sticky and how the residual stays with your fingers or on your hands or on your arm and particularly when I sign I sign my name in blood on my play partners just with my R completely serious because it's important but there is this thing about that thing that keeps you alive that I can play with when I get involved in a blood letting I can get someone to bleed which every way I want to whether it's through multiple pin whether it's from a cannulation whether it's from whatever where the blood can start to flow as soon as I watch that first trickle of blood down the skin that's when something in me just goes it is visceral and the smell of it and it is the smell that reacts somewhere within a deep part of my my million part of my brain that reacts there smell is one of those big things I don't know where it came from to start with but it just does it for me and I'm fortunate enough to have a number of regular play partners that that do a door blood play from the bottom side which where I can feed that part of me so it is very much a I don't know where it came from I don't care where it came from but I love it okay it's a bit intense I think my first lessons at ambulance school when I first started an older gentleman whose name I'll keep private he stood at the front of the classroom gentlemen it isn't that hard because there were no women in ambulance back in that day it isn't that hard blood goes round and round air goes in and out any variation on the above do something and you know what it hasn't changed it's exactly the same today except we have all these lovely toys and drugs to play with but the whole idea of blood dripping out not being controlled that's the life blood life blood there you go that is life and when I can then incision and watch that blood trickle out and I can make that happen I can make it stop there is something really deeply primal about that women and when that happens there is this this deep thing within me that I feel at my core well I gotta say giving blood can be an experience just watching this blood trickle down the tube into the bag it's really just does my head a nice little thing I don't mind sitting there watching my blood pour into a bag oh my okay you're looking a little pale let's move on to another topic before I pass out my gosh to give you some concept I can't even watch the American Soap Opera General Hospital without passing out we should stop as fascinating as is your topic I need to move on so you lived in a town called Tawamba and you told me that was the largest recipient of porno from the Eros Foundation tell us about that what is that Tawamba if there is a bible built in Australia Tawamba is its buckle there are more churches per head of population in particular more churches of a charismatic style there it is this town about 80 miles 120 kilometers to the west of us on the top of a range it's like a wagon wheel for everything else everyone goes to Tawamba in the outskirts east west north south it considers itself very much a country town trying to be a big city and has been like that ever since I was there it it speaks with purity it speaks with on the outside but we scratch the surface swinging is big but back in the 80s when videomagazine was being sent out of the Australian capital territory the Eros Foundation at the time was doing a survey on the suburbs or the post codes that were getting the most porn Tawamba topped it out why was that I think you scratch the surface under any strongly dominated I'm trying not to use the word religious but I'll use it for the moment but you're going to find there are subcultures within that and being the hub of the Darling Downs it clearly helped out with that post code but it also was one of the when you scratch the surface at Tawamba you would find swingers everywhere once I understood the BDSM scene it was pretty powerful up there at the time and a big part of that I think also is because it was a provincial town that had a lot of public sector public servants people in careers are posted in that a couple of years where there was this change of population I think that's why but also there was a high degree of sick fuckery in Tawamba some of the best parties I've been to have been up there in the woods my gosh but you also said the first time you saw a sub offer that was a lot of pollution was profound for you talk with us about that the particular couple were very much I found out afterwards were very much part of the Gorian style of BDSM and to watch this lady who I saw as a very very powerful strong woman wander up to her sir Neil placed herself in a very very clearly difficult position head down, palms open and just wait and then him actually I watched him as much I watched him glance down and saw what she was doing and deliberately not acknowledge her for a period of time and then turned and acknowledged her picked her up just gently kissed her on both cheeks and then whispered in her ear and then off she wandered and did something and came back then back on her knees and presented a glass and whatever he was drinking oh yeah oh yeah that for me that was like oh what am I missing here what am I missing here and more around rather than just the sadistic Bob to the dominant Bob to and yeah it was a change of pathway for me I still love my sadism that is part of who I am but dominance and submission is what I play with now in my mind I live with I had a long-term girl for a long time and she was looking for permanent relationship and of course if you're looking for a permanent relationship with someone and you go oh by the way I got this sir on the side who's my master and I'm his slave and you're just going to have to live with that you know that it's not going to last long but we were together for five years and hamming love extreme play through to I still love her dearly she's very much one of my best friends in my life and I hers and it was time you know when it's time it's time and part of it was she came out of a really broken really difficult relationship and but for her to be strong enough to write me the most amazing email explaining that it was time to step away and why and acknowledgement of the care and life and I felt very privileged to be in a position to be with her for that time you know that part of know broken by that not because I didn't think it would continue the way it did it had to end at some point in time when she was ready to take on another life partner but it still hurt only because morning is part of that but I'm still remarkably happy for her to take the steps and I was only talking to her just on the way here today so we're still the best of friends I still love her dearly and it's taken 18 months to get back to a point where I wanted to establish another relationship and well probably two years and that's been going on for a little while and I'm very very happy with the relationship I have now because it's actually come from a position of very close friendship already and I was a bit dumb really, I didn't realise that she was looking I didn't realise I was looking and I had to make a comment one day and she looked me in the eye and goes we need to talk so I was a bit clueless I think interesting and I think serendipity smiles upon us when we're not looking and something presents itself you've got to grab it and go yeah just one of those things that timing was right that vacillated a lot of different ways didn't it? but you said you're a service top talk with us a bit about that that was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else but the more I thought about it there are times where I play with people to facilitate their needs Bob, I need a really good beating okay alright, we set up the arrangement we do the work we need to for negotiation I someone because they want to be beaten and hey, I don't mind doing it but it's where you have that lovely connection with people and it's really I've developed with maybe three or four people this beautiful play partner relationship which is around fulfilling their needs but also scratching an itch that I might have as well so it's not purely selfless but it is part of it is fulfilling a need of someone else before what it is for me and we actually have a group of friends that get together on a regular basis now for dinner or whatever which is I need this, can you help me out sure, we have dinner and afterwards we do that, it's like a but it's for that night it will be for that person that night because very few of us are in that full time relationship and it's lovely it fills a need but part of it is I got accused of being a service top one day and I use accused, I felt really what the fuck are you on about but then I thought about it for a while some of the play is really service topping it's filling a need for someone else albeit that I wouldn't play with someone unless I've got some sort of connection with them and that I'm going to get at least something out of it sure, sure otherwise I'd expect cash I think I've got to get something out of it right do you feel that there's a huge demand for what you do oh yeah there are so many people out there that just need something my wife was telling me that at dinner that she went to one night that one of the participants said the girl started playing with him and at the end of it he goes oh god I've needed that for so long and their response is what the fuck didn't you say something oh I didn't think I could so now we've made it okay in that particular group of people to go hey I really need this can you help in very weak one of us can but that's out of a care, love and support of that particular group of people so we there's got to be that connection I very rarely would play with anyone that I didn't know it has happened and I don't feel fulfilled by unless there's a body but what does protocol mean to you oh everything everything in the relationship it is absolutely everything there are the rules that we establish the rules that we set up but I have an expectation that my submissive will where possible sit to my left my wife's position to my right or where she chooses to be if she wants to sit on the left that's cool because my wife is my prime yes and the submissive will fit into that but the very very gentle we were at a venue just recently and my girl sort of would you like some of the drink I love an iced water thank you and she wanders off and grabs it and then comes back in a very very subtle and private way and just presented it to you that means more to me than her getting down on her knees putting a big thing together this appropriateness for situation and not drawing focus away from someone else's seeing that sort of thing the the appropriate greeting the appropriate recognition of my primary prior to me so when my girl comes in my expectation is that she will greet my wife before she will greet me because we must provide that understanding that this doesn't happen without my wife's so so sure if she doesn't concur with this she's not in agreement with it it stops because of that respect we have in our role we've been married 30 years congratulations so part of those rules and the things that we established and protocol I love it I think that there is something about boots there is something about the position below me there is something about all of that which just keys into this desire of not so much wanting to be the boss because that's naturally who I end up being but about if someone is making an effort to do what I like okay and what I need sometimes and recognition that I'm afflicted by the black dog depression and anxiety is part of who I am and part of my life and the nature of work that I do we all get scarred a little bit but I also believe a lot in emotional and psychological resilience and I also believe strongly in post-traumatic growth okay when we are faced with crap and we deal with crap that what happens after us and what we take on board with that sees us develop and build our resilience and build our prophylactically protect us for the future because we've seen it which means that in the future we can handle that again better same thing applies I think in day to day life to life we are only the sum of our own experiences which means that we can handle things that happen to us and now better just the same as what may have happened with a play partner 20 years ago I'm never going to do it again, I've learnt from that right so while I might be afflicted with anxiety and depression and it affects me far more regularly than I'd like but does it outwardly affect me most people wouldn't know my wife does when I go and get a cup of ice cream and want to eat it but my girl gets it and as soon as she detects that she switches on to something and will do something that just goes switch and it might be just that she will sit at my feet it might be that she will sit to my left side and she will just do something or she might place my hand around her throat something okay she's very very intuitive this lady she's very clever very very smart and that to me is part of what protocol is part of what apart from the expected but the unexpected that you know pleases as I do things that please her but not in such an obvious way this has been an interesting chat so far I'm glad you're happy with it I'm thinking more a lot more than I thought I would fantastic I love it really really comfortable with it and no it's um yeah it's cool but switching gears slightly when we were preparing for this you mentioned the Fitzgerald inquiry what was that tell us about that firstly did you ever go searching for it I have to admit I did not and I'm guilty that I'm guilty about that I'm sorry we have a series of television shows recently called underbelly and underbelly has generally been about real life gangster types or real life drug lords of that sort of thing and there was one particular series that um that actually was based on the history around the Fitzgerald inquiry back in the late 80s in fact during the 1980s we had a premier in Queensland that was an interesting person he'd been the premier for 30 years like a state governor if you would think that way okay elected every three years or two years took the gerrymander that the opposition party put in the play and then created this amazing thing with boundaries that looked like peanuts or dumbbells to put two areas of population that would vote together for one seat and put four seats around it so you end up a voting system that is never ever going to go the way of the opposition by way of disclosure I am a member of a political party very much a left wing or used to be left wing now a far more centrist political party around labour rights and that sort of thing and the other side of it was the capital L libel not libel as you would understand it but very much a conservative side of politics and I think probably the best way to describe it is that I would have been a democrat in the U.S. and the opposition would be a republican okay yes so that is probably the only way I could describe it but during that time there apparently were no brothels in Queensland okay but you could drive down the street and see places with back doors open and very clearly massage parlours there were no illegal casinos there were no it was all very pure Queensland very much like the top of the range at Swinburne and through a process of a very very brave journalist writing a story and then in turn in Australia the ABC is the public broadcaster they had a well they have a show called Four Corners which is a current affairs investigative journalism type of deal sort of 60 minute issue without the commercialism and he did a story called The Moonlight State and it absolutely ripped apart the tenure of Queensland as far as what was being hidden and then out of that a very very brave politician by the name of Michael Hearn while the then premier was overseas or something created the Fitzgerald Inquiry which you read the first 80 pages of the Fitzgerald Inquiry it sounds like an episode of Underbelly while it was but it was true it was about brothels it was about murder it was about police taking kickbacks it was about a corrupt police force it was about corrupt politicians and that investigation was huge and it changed Queensland in fact in 1989 after the Fitzgerald Inquiry it actually became legal for blokes to fuck before that it was illegal a dear dear friend of mine touched up a lovely young thing and found out it was an undercover cop on him and it had been charged oh boy so it was a pretty difficult time before that there were no such thing as homosexuals in Queensland heaven forbid that there might be lesbians out there heaven forbid that people might actually have sex so very very different so the Fitzgerald Inquiry changed Queensland and when that is all going on in your formative years and when you go on protest and then get put in the back of a police van and taken out in our alleyway and then beaten up don't stay in town you're going to get arrested next time well I don't have a police record unfortunately the bruises fade but that's what was going on things are much better these days and of course recently in Australia we now can have same sex couples married and we had to fight long and hard for that I identify as queer there's nothing normal about me so identify as queer I actually I march in our pride marches in my uniform for work oh well we've been doing that for a while and it's really important to me to be able to be me to not just be seen as Bob who's been married for 30 years but Bob who's a bit different and just accept me for who I am and that wouldn't be happening today without Fitzgerald so big time in Queensland but it was actually the start of change the start of acceptance the start of no there were there were people from churches throwing stones on at people in parades in Brisbane it was same sex so are we still in the dark ages I think that there are large elements of Queensland that would like to think that they'd take us back but the the plebiscite into same sex marriage was really really clear that is way more people than not are accepting of live your life as you need to tell us about online BDSM yeah I think that people will denigrate 50 shades of grey now do I think it's a good piece of writing no I could write better did I write it no I didn't do I have an inkling to write anything better no I don't hang shit on someone that wrote some fanfic and got very very popular no I'm not but it's not what I read I deliberately read as much as I could stomach of it I deliberately watched the first 50 shades movie just so I could see what people were talking about but then I got it that's the end part of online isn't it we went from an underground society that I would not have found this microcosm of community that I wouldn't have found without an invitation to it or probably wouldn't have found it anywhere as quick to a point where once we start getting online we've got this anonymity around internet real achat rooms alt.com all of the stuff that went on with the keyboard channels and bulletin boards and that sort of thing through to websites and that sort of thing people found that it was acceptable I think the feeling that I got was when I first emerged into the scene was that oh there are other people like me I'm not a freak for people to discover that online meant that we became far more accessible as a microcosm to other people joining us and of course that brings with it it's dangerous as much as it's doors but the open door the way in which it opened doors hash BDSM and IRC was one of the most amazing things I enjoyed because there are people that I made friends with there that I hadn't laid eyes on in real life that I felt terribly afflicted by when they passed that you end up meeting in real life that they're still friendships that exist to this day 20 years later but accessibility it used to be that we were very fortunate in Brisbane there was a club here called Club Liberty that was established and it was a premises set up as a theatre space and it had play equipment and you were invited in there by invitation only and you were vetted by the committee and all that sort of stuff but the only way they could get people coming in was to advertise in adult contact magazines then the internet kicked off and then it became far more open and it became far more accessible so the internet has meant accessibility it's also meant a bit more threat, potential harm but as with anything how many times do you know people that went on dates in the vanilla community that went back to someone's house and the person's are bonking whereas we had systems around for safe call because I'm going to go somewhere and get tied up and I need to make sure I'm not going to get hurt in a vanilla world what didn't we do and I think back to that time we go geez I feel a bit icky about it icky technical word yes but accessibility is a big thing and also the ability to communicate and understand that within our world our microcosm there are all these subcultures of BDSM out there that people can readily find and even if they become the one that started there will always be someone else that will be able to join with that and in itself I think that is good but it also in itself becomes an issue around silos so good things and bad things but certainly that's where I'd be going with it so things that I'm grateful for it being there go on free porn what can you say what advice do you have for newbies in the community while I understand the word newbies I don't like it a lot because it defines people as being it defines people it's a label but for people who are wanting to examine what this world is my advice is to go to munchers just get there where you don't there's no expectation go and work out that but people who are addressed there maybe like you maybe like me maybe in everyday street clothes I'm not going to put the hard word on them I'm not going to you're going to be safe go to munchers talk to people get to know the people but make the contact face to face rather than online yeah too many times people come into harm's way when they there's no vetting face to face you go to a munch everyone knows everyone and they're going to make sure you're safe I think that is my best bit of advice I think also there are a number of books out there that I would suggest that people read around the general works of VDSM I still think Jay Wiseman's books carry a lot of weight as far as introduction okay ethical slut really really important thing to read if that's part of your world but spend a bit of time getting a bit of knowledge and understanding and don't be afraid to ask questions but know when to ask and then if you want to go to a party or want to go to a venue get someone to take you who can be your guide mentorship is really important in this world yes and if you can find that right person who will lead you, guide you help you make sure you don't end up looking like a knobhead and therefore carry you through that would be my advice is don't try and do it on your own get in touch with real people and eschew the bullshit that is online because how do you tell the difference when you knew you don't what's the biggest misconception about you I genuinely don't know okay I think people make an assumption that if people do not sit down and talk to me they can make an assumption that I'm a big bad sadist who just wants to hurt you in fact it's a furthest from the truth I'm not going to play with you unless I know you and to put it really really simply I think that there are people out there in the world that don't know me that think that I would never cry and you couldn't be further from the truth today I've demonstrated points in Tom where I've become very close to him become emotional tears of weld the part of that is Bob being the Bob who carries with him the life of experience of some pretty shitty things of some pretty amazing things and that it points in time when I'm discussing things that they will kind of be part of who I am right now part of that post-traumatic growth deal that we spoke about earlier but the fact that if you don't know me you might make that assumption that I am just someone who just wants to hurt you they see well Bob Ross just thank you for participating in an amazing fireside chat I have as I said before I've been truly surprised where you've taken me we did prep for this there are a number of these questions that I wasn't ready for but I appreciate that but it's given me pause for thought and I thank you for that my pleasure thank you