 Good afternoon and welcome back to the touchline on Y25. My name is Maxwell Wasiko. We're still on until 3 o'clock. Remember later on we shall be dwelling into matters international football with regards to what happened last night and other headlines Kenan who is already here with us. Josaina will be joining us later on. But of course I'm still here with one big man Ngaro Kamuya, now a sports consultant and marketer. And now we will talk about how sports can spy economy. How can sports bring rapidly to the growth and development of economy. Something that people have never known. We just take it for granted. We think we are doing it for fun. And it's a conversation we are having often. I think the reason we are having this discussion, Max, is because in the course of the week we are talking about the fact that sports has not resumed in Kenya. And the question is why. And my answer is very simple. Sports has announced that in Kenya. We look at the NBA resumed. They are now going into the playoffs. The NFL has resumed. The NFL say they are going to resumed. They are going to start the season when it's supposed to start. English Premier League resumed. Champions League resumed. Rugby in New Zealand we have been talking about it resumed. It's been there. The reason is because these sports are a big contributor to the economy of these countries. And the reason is because they have a seat at the table when the conversation is being had about COVID response and everything. Let's start with America. The NBA, they were able to sit down in two months, come up with a supplement to how they are going to do it. And what did they decide? They've gone to Florida. They're in the Walt Disney Park. And what's called the bubble. It's a complex for Walt Disney. The games are being played there. There's no exiting from the bubble. You are tested randomly or frequently. There's a golf course there. So they play once in a while. And then even in these teams they are able to have 300 virtual funds tuned into these games. The NBA is going to be completed. The TV contracts are going to be. And especially now when guests have good stadiums, you can imagine how the ratings are going to skyrocket. We've talked about the NFL resuming in the English Premier League. Conversations were had and in two months the English Premier League had resumed so that they were able to complete. The Bundesliga was the fastest. It's because of the amount of money that these sports contribute to the economy. We were talking about perhaps maybe a wrong model that Ricardo Badoa is employing at Wasito. And if it was me, if I have that money max, today if I had half a billion shilling city, it's very easy. Just constitute a former company that is going to finance a sports club. The company issue shares to other strategic investors. But with that money you meet the expenses of the club. And you know one of the biggest things we always say is bats on the seat. We need people in the stadiums. That is the first way of making money. In Kenya we always try to jump that stage and we go to commercial sponsorships and broadcasting. But it is very systemic. You need people in the stadium first. Then after people in the stadium you need, that's when the commercial partners come. If you can guarantee someone 10,000 people a weekend, then somebody will come and say okay fine. The biggest casualty of coronavirus pandemic which is here with us to stay following the reports of numbers increasing day in day out has been the event sector. Wired rally championship was supposed to take place in the country. It was postponed to some later date I think next year. Kenya opened. They think Wired under 20 championship. You and I were together at Kasaranimu International Sports Centre in 2017 and we saw how revenue was generated. A lot of people got an opportunity to be empowered. A lot of young people coming through for you know offering a lot of services. Something that was crippled this year because of pandemic which of course we don't have control over. But now considering that all these events have been put together to take place next year. How well can these sporting administrators and managers ensure that you know the revenue that was lost this year can get generated at a surpass level come next year? Is it really possible? And even the culprits, the people who lost job opportunities following the procrastination of this event? COVID-19 and the sports economy has been a wake up call. It's been like an eyeball opener to sports stakeholders more so administrators and sports owners in the country because they have seen that the sports industry in Kenya is actually insignificant to the economy of Kenya. It adds no value to the economy of Kenya. And I can state that categorically. Is that the reason why president never thinks I can bulmach? No, no, no. But that's not the reason. That's not the reason at all. It is that you look at even our budget when our budget is being done in the country. How much money is being given to sports? In that the government, the treasury knows that this money we are giving to sports is because also sports as an entity of this economy adds value to our economy. You come to an understanding that it does not add any value. One, sports is not professional in Kenya. All year long since our first union was established, I think back in 1946, has all been sports being taken as a recreational exercise as a pastime. No one wants to go there and say this sports needs to be professional. And if we can professionalize it, then we can go under percent and see that now we have sports in the country that adds value to this economy. Now, when we talk about Magico Kenya Open, when we talk about the Safari Rally, and we talk about these big matches that come, the test matches that come into the country, the employment of these people is secondary to their main employment of all the people working in this industry of sports in Kenya. Someone who is a caddy in golf, in the Magico Open, that is not his full-time job. That's a last result. That's an alternative job to him. These event companies in Kenya don't work under percent for sports. They do other jobs when sports comes in, it is secondary to them. I'll wait to make a quick buck. You see, look, you know my stand. I'm always saying that government should not be the one funding. Government should just create an environment for the private investor to get in. Now, you see, back to our initial point. Has government done that in the first place? It hasn't. Is the environment currently conducive? It hasn't, but again, at the same time, sometimes and most times, government is part into those things. For example, a casing point, the betting industry. The betting industry has grown because of SportPesa. SportPesa was just a couple of investors who sold a loophole. So, okay, we can make money through this. And SportPesa blew up and then they were like, okay, now government comes and starts putting the policy. So, if, like, three revenue earners for sports. Number one, ticket sales. Ticket sales. But on the seat, that is what they call it. Number two is commercial partnerships. Number three is broadcasting. In Kenya, let's not even focus on broadcasting. We are far. Let's focus on the first two. Now, ticketing. Ticketing is people numbers through the gate. Numbers through the gate is creating an environment. Two-thirds of the people who go for any sporting event do not go for the game. They go for the experience. It's only a third. When you go for the Kenya Open, you do not even know what the hell goes on in a golf course. But you'll pay because of the experience. You want to say that as a Kenya Open. When 7s was a big thing in the 2000s and early 2010s, 90% of the people who were there did not know what a tri was. Okay, maybe they knew. They didn't know what the game of rugby was. But they were there because of the experience. You can attest this. I've attended a few games and you're meeting some of our friends, especially on the other agenda, attending the game in large numbers and you ask them which teams are playing. They are cruel. They are there for the experience. Once you sort out the experience, it has to be a 360 degree experience. The example I always use in Kenya is think of the Kuroga Festival. The Kuroga Festival on a bad day has 3000 people. On a good day, it has 10,000 people. You have to look at your teams as the artists. You see 3000 people go regardless of who it is. It might be a crap artist, but they don't care. It'll be all Kenyans and artists. We will go because there's a 360 degree experience on the farm. Now that's what they need to create. The artists for us in this particular case are the teams on the pitch. So create an environment where even if I'm not watching the game, I'll enjoy being there for 2 hours. If it's my beer, if it's my yama, if it's conversation. I think Josain and I will agree with Ngarwa very much because we've been putting him in the sport on why he rarely attends a KPL match and he says no value for his money. Exactly. It's about value for your money. When I'm told to pay 500 Bob, I want to pay 500 Bob. Not only for the game, but for the environment. Now, once you are able to meet that, it's a marketing cost. The marketing cost cannot be met by the sponsor. It has to be met by you. Since why I keep on talking about this privatization thing. The investor puts in the money. The money is used to market the sport or to build an environment that is attractive for the fund. The fund comes in. Now you can go to Safaricom and tell them, I'm guaranteeing you 10,000 guys a weekend. Pay me 200 million shillings. They will not even bat an eyelid. They will pay that 200 million. You remember when the owner of Lekas was buying Lekas then goes back in the 60s or the 70s? No, he actually bought it in 79. When they came with the showtime. It was not about the game of basketball. It was about the events around the game of basketball. When they came with the cheerleaders. Just to interject, Kidogo, he had a four step plan. Plan number one is what you've said. He replaced the organist with cheerleaders. He was the first person to bring in cheerleaders in professional sport. Number two, the hottest night club in Los Angeles was the forum club. The forum was their stadium. That was number two. Number three is what we normally call influencers nowadays. The Hollywood celebrities. He got the Hollywood celebrities and told them, Okay, you guys, I'll give you the best tickets. Just come for our games. I'll give you the best tickets. And then number four, and maybe the master stroke for him, was he said, now if we are making it about the event, our playing style has to be about the event. And he hired, they're just drafted Magic Johnson. And they hired Pat Riley. And they said they're going to play the run and gun basketball. Hence the term, the Showtime Lakers. Those four is what took Lakers to the next level. And actually created the blueprint for the sports economy in the States. And that's what we need. You see, everything was focused on the fun. What does the fun want to see? The fun wants to see Denzel Washington there. To date, Jack Nicholson is still a season ticket holder. The fun wants to see... He doesn't miss any Lakers game. He doesn't miss a Lakers game. The fun wants to see Jack Nicholson. Do you know how serious it is for Jack Nicholson when Kubi Bryant was retired? They did a video of celebrities, basketball players. Jack Nicholson was the only non-basketball player to comment on that video. Because he was there. He's an internet world part of the Lakers. I think even the New York Knicks played it with Spike Lee. They did it with Spike Lee. If you look at the Boston Teens, they played it with Mark Wahlberg. So it's a fun experience. I know that half time there's going to be a cheerleader or something like that. There's going to be a show or some sort. There's a performance. I know that their style of play is attractive. I know that when I'm done with a game, there's a nightclub here that's a hot nightclub, and I know number five, number four, there's a possibility of me seeing Denzel Washington. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, we're digressing a bit. But remember even the Super Bowl. I've never been to the United States. I can't lie that I've been to the United States. But I'm one of the people who watch half time Super Bowl. What's happening at the half time of Super Bowl. It's not about the game. It's a performance. You actually come to find that people have seen half time performances of Super Bowl and they don't know who the quarterback winner of that game was. Because at that half time, movies are selling their trailers. Artists are performing. Thampan is advertising. And these are what people want to see. You forgive me. Just comment on the Super Bowl. Again, for the NFL to revive, it was a Super Bowl that revived. And you know what they did in the early 90s? The biggest artist was Michael Jackson. Yes. They said okay fine, we need a big person for the half time show. And they got Michael Jackson. They did not even have the money to pay Michael Jackson. But they said whatever revenue we raise, we'll channel some to some charity that is supported by Michael Jackson. And Michael did it. And it was a ridiculous show. And it took off. Now as we speak, as we speak, my guys, a 32nd interview Super Bowl is worth $6 million. Oh my goodness. You have to pay $6 million. So where did the rain start beating us? Because yesterday was a deal of all. The good old lady did something, a fantastic venue. I think she's in Ovas. She's right now in States. And she put up, you know, Osor Robert, you might have been there. I think even Serena Williams came back to launch the facility. But right now, I think people are just going there for fun to play, you see, even in football. Professionalism and business. Professionalism and business. Because the mistake we keep on making in Kenya is you insist that the administrators must be former players. No. You are a good player. Yes. That doesn't mean you are a good manager. The NBA, Exactly. The NBA have just appointed a guy called Victor Adams as the CEO for NBA Africa. Victor Adams background is in investment banking and business development in the U.S. Yes. But he's the CEO. He's the one who's running NBA Africa. If you look at the commissioners in the States, let's use the NBA because that's the most familiar in Kenya. The NBA commissioner is Adam Silver. Prior to him was David Stern. David Stern is a lawyer or was a lawyer, God rest his soul in peace. He was a lawyer for the law firm and represented the NBA. And then he became the general counsel for the NBA. And then he became the commissioner. He had nothing to do with basketball. Adam Silver is the same thing. Yes. Let's go to Manchester United closer to home. What's his name? Ed Woodward. Ed Woodward is an investment banker. He became CEO of Man United because he was a transaction advisor for the Glaser family in their acquisition of Man United. Nothing to do with the sporting. It's all about business. It's business. And then you hire, you're a manager. When you bring people with technical know-how. Thank you. You hire the people with technical know-how. That's a mistake. Look at this. Our sports in Kenya here, I don't think there's an administrator you can talk to and ask him, can you think that your company one day will make it to the Nairobi Stock Exchange? No administrator in Kenya. No one thinks that way. Who thinks that and says that? I want my company as goldmire to make it to the Stock Exchange. No one thinks that way. And that's where money is. You need to make money. These clubs, these sports entities are lives for people. They support people's lives. So it's all about profits. And the communities around them. Can we also say that the relationship between sports and government has to be symbiotic? Because we've seen president of the Republic of Kenya, Uhuru Kenyatta attending a golf match at current country club. The last time you attended a rugby game of which has been a passionate and I had fun was I think a few years ago. He didn't even attend England? He didn't even attend a rugby game. What he did is that he went to in Pala Club when the finals of the Rugby World Cup 7s was happening. It was happening. Between Kenya and the semifinals between Kenya and England. But you see and there's something he said at the Kenya Open in 2017 or 2018. He said the only reason we're supporting golf is because they have their staff in order. It's not about elitism. It's not about elitism. These guys had government only jumps in when they see something is big. Right? The safari rally. Finiaski Matias done a lot of work and that's why these guys they might be some personal interests. Don't get me wrong. But it's because of the work Finiaski Matias done. When Muangimode was chairman of Kenya Rugby Union. That's why the president wanted to be associated. We were having four tests matches a year. That's why you wanted to be associated with rugby because Muangimode was doing work. Do you know even the funny thing is that when Muangimode was given the job for CEO of the local organizing World Under 18. He was being fought because they were saying that you don't see us going to manage safaris. You are an outsider. And in my head I'm like, are you your nuts? If you're coming up with that comment, you're nuts. This is about management. It has nothing to do with playing the sport. You see the way COVID-19 has come in it's when people now realize that sport outside there is big. You look at the Boston Marathon when it was canceled. There are hotels that's closed. The Marathon hotel. It closed down because now this event comes here and it's not happening. And we are suffering at the end of the day. Look at the PGA. They had in Parkway. They had to close because there is no PGA. And when the PGA comes it adds into that economy. Into the macro economy of that community, of that country. Look at the Land and Marathon itself. Two billion pounds. They could talk about the money that is being lost from that economy because of Land and Marathon. That's how much money the Land and Marathon generates. Two billion pounds. Let me tell you. Look, you know the Super Bowl I think is the best example of symbiotic relationship between government and private enterprises. For example, you bid to host the Super Bowl. To host the Super Bowl. The one I know, I haven't read the details about this years. This years was in Miami, Florida. But I know the one for last year. And last year what happened is that the government of Georgia, Atlanta especially put in measures that made it attractive for the private guy to get into to invest. To invest. And all they do is that the biggest attraction is tax rebates. And they tell you guys are going to get tax rebates on the money you spend for Super Bowl. So the private community or the private the corporate community puts in a lot of money to make sure that Super Bowl is coming to Atlanta. To Atlanta. They raise a ridiculous amount of money to host the Super Bowl in Atlanta. What that happens is number one, hotels. Right? Yeah. Number two, your transport because guys it's probably transport. Yeah. Number three, your hotels. Sorry, your restaurants. Yeah, restaurants are broke. Number four, the general spending that is happening in those areas is boosting the business. At that time. At that particular time. For one week you guys are generating almost two billion dollars just because of one event. In the state, in England before a stadium moves let's use the case in point before Totena moved from White Heart Lane to where they are what's the stadium now? Totena moved Yes, to where they moved right now. The city council of London to approve their move one of the main things that Totena Ahmad to prove is how they are going to substitute for the businesses that have been lost around White Heart Lane. Around White Heart Lane. Yeah. You see. So how can our experts the likes of Victor Wanyama Michael O'Lunga We've seen even in rugby our local players doing as proud on international platform Colin Sinjera one of the all time tri-score as I think standing at third position right now looking forward to surpass those ahead of him. But we've had talent getting exported to overseas and doing exceptionally well putting up a very spirited performance abroad. How are they resourceful to our bid to make sports beyond economy growth? The truth is and the worst I know it's going to sound bad but the truth is they are just athletes. Yeah. In individual capacity. They are just athletes in individual capacity we don't expect them to be managers and that is the mistake we repeatedly make in Kenya. That now that when Collins retires in the next few years he has to transition into management. You being an athlete. That's what I'm thinking the elder brother is doing is in management and we love to see the work that he's doing but what I'm saying is that you being an athlete does not guarantee that you're going to be a manager. You being a stellar athlete does not guarantee you're going to be a excellent manager. We have just talked about managers of sports in foreign countries. They have nothing to do with the sport. Their work is to manage. Actually it's good also that if you are a former player and want to transition into sport management then go to school. Don't ride on your former player Yes. I think case in point locally can be Awka Gesheo. Yes. He was a former player I think he played for Nondis played for Simba Yes. Yeah played for main machine. When he was transitioning to sports management he had to go to school. Simple as that go to school and then come back and manage the sport. Think about then of people who are in management or ownership of sports for my players. Think about Magic Johnson who was the president of basketball operations at Los Angeles Lake. Yeah. Magic got into that as a manager and not as a former player. Yeah. Right? Think about Jordan he owns the Charlotte Hornets. Yeah. He's not there as Michael Jordan the player and by the way he's very categorical even when he discusses. He says when I go for this meetings yes I'm there as an owner. At the back of my mind yes I understand I used to put there's the guy in shots but I'm an owner and owner is all about business. But I think that is a problem that has been before in football. We've seen when someone wants to contest they are told you've never been a player. We want this position to be resolved for a person who's sweating on the pitch. Kenya Kenya for us to make sports for the economy growth one thing that has to change is our culture. Our culture sports has to change completely and we have been repeating this first we need to change from being a recreational sports to professional sports later our players know that I'm finishing high school I'm playing to be a Kenya rugby player the way players in the states do it they finish high school knowing I'm going to college but at the end of the day I have to end up at the NFL or the NBA or as a bandit our culture has got to change even for the fans we have to drill to them that going to the stadium is actually helping but again as we wind up as we wind up yes they should grow up thinking that and there are very many people who grow up thinking that by the way but you have to make it attractive for them to go there and sports is top down never upside down you cannot keep on telling people to go to the stadium if there is no value for their money so we have to invest in the sport personally this thing for community ownership cannot work you have to privatize these things it cannot work you have to sit down and go in with a business model to not look at it from a governance perspective go in with a business model this is how much you put in this is how much you get back it has to be from a business perspective only then when you generate the money is it going to be attractive for the player in high school to become a rugby player or to become a football player only then will it be attractive for foreign coaches or local coaches to get into it and not look for a side hustle because they know at least here I have a salary of 200,000 bok and that is when government is going to come into policy because for government now this company that is running the sports club is giving them 4 tax lines it's a new tax base it's giving them cooperation tax it's giving them VAT on goods and services it's giving them withholding tax on dividend income and it's giving them pay of the employees that's the only way we look at it wow that has been an excellent conversation around how sports can inspire economy and indeed a detailed topic that we need to delve the entire show