 Okay. Well, I'll say so, but all right. I don't think you addressed what I was saying, but that's okay. How is it a sound philosophy to say the freedom of speech doesn't include protests, which is what you said during our debate. But but you cracking down or or getting or saying that Trump is somehow tyrannical for wanting it to make to one for wanting it to make it harder for journalists to falliciously lie. Because it's not his job. It's not his job. What it's not his job It's it's not the job of government to define what the truth is and to tell us and it says nothing to do with protesting It's not the job of government to tell us what the truth is This is this is what we this is what they like what I'm arguing Well, that's what I'm arguing I'm saying if someone if you can if you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that a A journalist is knowingly lying. Yeah, so knowingly lying. Yeah, that's different Then what would you do? What should you do if you know a journalist is knowingly lying? What should you do? Not the president. What should you do? Well, no, no, I'm saying I can't do nothing as a citizen. I can say well, I'm not gonna read them anymore Yeah, there you go. That's something free market. I believe in free markets Yeah, but what I'm saying is there's a lot of people who vote who are Uh predisposed to their own opinions and they don't care if they're lying you get what I'm saying So so they so what is the wall of government here? What should the president do? It's what's the president do. Yeah I mean It's illegal to commit fraud then that's selling something you don't have Yeah, and uh, and um, that's kind of the same thing you're telling something you know You want to give the government in order I get I get what you're saying So you want to give now we have by the way, we have libel laws which you can prosecute a journalist if they commit libel Um, and yeah, so so we have the laws on the books to protect us from fraud But you want the government to get into the business of defining When a journalist lies and when he doesn't lie And going after them not on issues of libel but on anything, you know, if they lie about the earth being flat Or they lie about who? Who's responsible for 9 11? They the government should be allowed To go and then prosecute them I mean fine, but that's the end of liberty. That is the end of freedom that is given That's what the catholic church did because they perceived Galileo as lying That was the excuse they gave everybody and they put him on the house arrest and they silenced him When you give this goes back to my argument earlier. You cannot give the government authority over the realm of ideas over the realm of what is factual and what's not factual unless Unless fraud has been committed There is monetary damages somebody has suffered and then you don't need the government then that person sues the newspaper And we have plenty of laws on the books that you can go after those journalists But it is the end of freedom and liberty when the government Says nbc is a good is a good network. No, sorry nbc a liars fox, which lies every single day They're all liars and fox. Hannity is one of the biggest liars. I've ever seen in my life, right? All of them are liars So fox they're okay. Why because in this administration, we like fox and we hate the nbc the next administration This goes back loves nbc and hates fox the fox of the liars That is the end of freedom the end of liberty and that's where we're heading because that's what donald trump is Moving us towards now now now Obama started this if you remember he attacked fox for lying And he was right fox at the time was lying And he attacked them now now trump is doing the same thing But trump is doing it worse because trump is saying not only are they lying and it's bad But i'm gonna rescind or i will consider rescinding their license that is uh That is a threat of physical force from the government that is the equivalent of physical force That's interpretation and it's the end of freedom as we know it Everything you said i agree with but the reason i started up i'm look i hated when trump says fake news It's ignorant. It's just like a talking point What i'm saying is if you actually dig into what he's doing The whole reasoning behind it is because he believes they are maliciously lying and it can be proven But even that is not the libel laws are strong enough But michael even that is not true first of all libel laws are plenty strong The only reason donald trump doesn't like the libel laws is because he's lost some cases Where he's going after people for libel and he didn't win so he thinks that he's such a narcissist everything is about him But it's it's much worse than that because trump lies all the time all the time Absolutely So you want to use him as an authority to tell us who's lying and who's not him as an authority to undercut the media What's that? I want the courts to be the authority So we got libel laws If we've got libel laws Then then let's practice our libel laws if you think that somebody says something that that has caused you damages Which is what fard and libel require Then sue them and go after them and people do that all the time libel laws are used in this country All the time there was that gawker case. I don't know if you remember the gawker case Yeah, we're peter teal peter teal funded it right and they drove gawker out of business gawker went bankrupt Good, I mean gawker was filled with lies and they hurt people and people really suffered as a consequence So an entrepreneur got together and they funded it and they went and they smashed them That the system is working as far as I could so now the system is not working because Media there's no objectivity in the media now. I agree that NBC lies It's more than just bias. They lie and you you can see it in the coverage of Trump was sending this stuff on obama k. They lie about what he's doing. They lie about the consequence It's just horrible But fox does the same thing and brightbutt certainly does the same thing. They lie about immigration. They lie about a lot of other things So i'm concerned about the lack of objectivity in the culture I'm concerned about the fact that we as consumers are not sensitive enough To to to differentiate between truth and falsehood that we're not fighting for objectivity and not fighting for the truth That last thing in the world I want Is for the government to get in the middle of that Because particularly this government a government filled with liars the government of the swamp in in donald trump's terminology Because he is the swamp He is the biggest swamp than anybody else in washington dc for them to get involved in deciding what is true And what he's not what is acceptable is not acceptable is again that is the end of the end of freedom and Look if all that happened is donald trump said that and it would go away then so what it doesn't matter It's just a president talking But now what we've got is a democratic president obama Going after the media a republican president trump going after the media and Expressing the tool that he would use against them take away their licenses What's going to happen when the next president comes along and is really pissed off at the media? And what happened to the american people? Sensitivity to these issues right sensibility about these issues. They've now been primed to accept the idea That it's okay for the government to decide which media outlets are okay and which are not That scares the bejesus out of me I will walk back that point because you are absolutely right. That's a great argument My second question. Absolutely. I still think you're wrong on the first, but that's fine I encourage you to read. Let me let me encourage you to read something. Uh, iron rands, uh, objectivist epistemology Hmm, I haven't read that. Yeah, introduction to objectivist epistemology because she talks there about how we form concepts and how we get concepts like Happiness and suffering and and how we build up to them. And what's the relate? How do you think about the relationship between concepts? And and and let me just say I respect the question. I think it's a good question. And it's obviously a question intelligent people are struggling with because you're struggling with it and jordan peterson is struggling I don't think either one of you's an idiot But but I don't believe that Um Happiness that that suffering is more fundamental than happiness. I think the pain is I think the pain is But but pain is on the same level as pleasure pain and pleasure are the the other things that we experience And then we build from them abstract concepts, but okay, I need I really need to move on Thanks, Michael. I really appreciate the call I will read what you said. Thank you very much. Excellent