 Welcome to the After Hours podcast, hosted by Harry Haas and James Friedlender, presented by My Investing Club. What's going on guys, welcome back to another episode of the After Hours podcast. Today we have a special guest, Sam, who's a member at MIC and he's argued, I think he's one of the youngest members other than his tab group. So it's cool to have him on and we've been seeing some cool consistency and growth from him. So thank you for coming on, Sam. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. Of course, man. Of course, we've had Xander's your tab, right? Yeah, Xander's the main one. So we had Xander on a previous episode. So if you haven't checked that one out, but I saw, I guess we'll get into it. So I guess, Sam, how did you kind of get into this? How did you start trading and how did you kind of get into MIC eventually? Yeah, so trading was actually, it was really random for me. I've always been like very entrepreneurial. So I've always been interested in investing in the stock market. Like as soon as I turned 18, I had opened up a Roth IRA, like all that type of stuff. But I was at my job one day and I paint houses and I was just sitting there and I got on the job and I was like, all right, I want to do something to do with my time. So I literally went on Apple Podcasts and I searched in the word stocks. That's all I searched in, just to find some podcasts. And of course, Tim Sykes pulled up, right? And that's the name that comes up with everything. So yeah, I just, I watched one video, or one podcast on just day trading penny stocks. And within two weeks, I'd never looked back. And that was in late January of 2021. So it's been almost a year. Yeah, yeah, I was 18. So I was in Tim's room for about four months, something like that. And I really respect him. I was very thankful for that time there. He's really good at keeping you motivated, keeping you kind of in the things. But after a while, I just realized that I wasn't really learning a process that I could come to the market and trade with every day. It's a really classic story. I just didn't have a process that I felt like I could repeat every single day. And that's when Xander and I, we just started hearing about MIC and the Be The Trader podcast. Do you guys know each other in real life? Or did you guys meet? No, we met each other on Twitter through some of Tim's comments. Oh, shit. Yeah, we just realized we were both young and we were both working every single day all day. And so- I love that, dude. I love that, I didn't know that. Yeah, so we just, he was the one who first reached out and then we just started talking and then we formed this Next Gen Traders group which is like seven of us now, so. Fuck you, dude, that's sick. I love it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we just heard about MIC and we decided to give it one month just to try because we were doing OTCs on the long side before MIC and they were like, we'll do it one month. We don't wanna mess up what we've done. We'll just give it one month and we'll see how it feels to watch some videos. It was about a week and we were no longer watching the OTC market. Yeah. But one week and we were nothing but MIC videos listed market and have not- Were you having success before that? Like were you finding some like short-term success with OTCs or was it just, I know that market stuff. Like I never personally got into it. I just skipped that whole phase. Like I just, I found small caps first. Yeah. And I know like Isaac Jack and like there's some amazing OTC traders out there. But were you finding success with that and like, how was that going? Yeah, not really, statistically we weren't. And to be fair, when we were really kind of getting our groove with it, the market shifted and it wasn't very good for the OTC market. So I don't want to piss on it too much, but we weren't really finding that much consistency. My first trade ever was a first green day swing and I made like, you know, 150 bucks. And then my second trade, I lost like $300 and it scared the crap out of me. And then it was just like two wins or two losses and one win and then three losses and one win. So it was definitely not consistency. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So then you found MIC, you guys were there. What did you like about it initially when you got in? Like what was like the biggest difference between that and like previous rooms you've kind of seen and like what kind of got you? Cause you're still here and it's been obviously now over a year. So what kind of switched that for you? So it's really simple. The thing that hooked us initially was the education. With other videos that we'd seen, other DVDs we'd watched, it was repeating the same thing, very basic level. Half of the video was filled with going through Twitter. The other half of the video was talking about students. And so when we came to MIC and we started going through the videos, we were like, oh, we're actually learning something. We're actually learning what does this mean and what does that mean and how to do this. And when you see this respond this way, right? So it's like, we were actually getting real education. We could watch video after video and we were learning new stuff. What's cool? So now like, cause where you're at now, like you're starting to find some pretty good consistency. Like I see you posting your charts a lot. I feel like you and Xander have really grown a lot and I see it. So what kind of made that fundamental shift for you? Like cause it's, I feel like that started, I don't want to say too recently, but it was in the past like a couple of months here. What changed for you? What brought you to this point of like going from inconsistent, like not really having your niche in process to where you're at right now. Yeah, that's a good question. There's so many factors. It's hard to say this and this. I just read a blog post and it was about exploration and then exploitation. And it's about how to find consistency in your trading. I posted the blog yesterday, but they talk about how like for a while before a big breakthrough comes, you have to be exploring. You've got to try all these different variables and whatnot before you can exploit it and actually find consistency. And so I'd say the first couple of months in MIC, that's what was happening. Like we weren't really too consistent because we were really trying like everything, you know, all day faders, trying death lines, first resistance, you walk rejections, you walk reclaims and we weren't really finding consistency with it through August and September. And then it was the 1st of October. I can remember this like without a doubt. It was the 1st of October and everything just started to click with us as far as the MIC process. And it sounds so simple, but it was just like after a while, when you've been studying enough and you've been watching enough videos, you just look at a chart and you start to go, oh wait, I heard this somewhere. Or, oh wait, I know what this means. Or, okay, this, I'm supposed to respond this way, right? And so that clicked for us about at the beginning of October and then all of a sudden we just started to figure out what our edge was, which for, we're both a little bit different, but for me, it's outer lines, first resistance or on really broken down charts when it's gotta get really extended to get up to VWAP. I love a shorty VWAP on those. Going into October, we just started to click and we narrowed down what we were focusing on. Yeah, cause like I'm obviously in weekend mentoring, so like I see a ton of your charts all the time. And I also wanted to say, I know that you've been going through a lot of stuff with your dad passing recently and there's been a ton of challenges with that. So I just wanted to say that, I'm sorry to hear that. And whatever you're going through, like I'm always here for your bro. But yeah, I'd say that you kind of brought something up recently that tweaked my interest as well. And that was more so the, just like MIC and being advanced, like you never really think about how advanced MIC is until you're in other rooms. And random people are asking like what's VWAP or what's support and resistance, right? And I think just like moving on, you kind of talked about consistency and like what kind of like took you to get over that kind of like hump. And I guess my question more so for you would be for anyone who's kind of newer or who's kind of bent in the same position as you, what are steps that you would take to kind of, get someone over the hump for consistency or kind of anyone who's like maybe questioning MIC or questioning trading in general, what are kind of tips that you would give them to kind of maybe keep going and just staying on that track and just putting in the work. Yeah, well, yeah. The first word that comes to mind for me is full immersion. You have to emerge yourself in trading and the process and what you're doing. If you are not completely dedicated to succeeding at trading, don't even mess with it. Like if you aren't 110% there, if you're not ready to put in 18 hours a day for two years, three years, never giving up until you find consistency. Like you've got to know what you're getting into. And when you have accepted that, it's just a nonstop, right? Just keep going. But for me, like as far as if you're just joining MIC or something, you have to immerse yourself in the process. And that doesn't just mean watching the videos. That doesn't just mean like, oh, this is the first resistance. This is the process, right? It's like the process is everything in MIC. It's freaking, you'll be in after hours in the evenings, right? Talk with the community. Read main chat during the market hours. Have a tab group where you're talking with people about trading the whole time. Watch videos in your free time. Like you've got to immerse yourself in every aspect of it. And it has to become your life. Like if you're trying to become successful at trading and then every evening you're hanging out with friends and the weekends, you forget that you're trying to learn how to day trade, it's gonna be very hard for you to succeed. You've got to like commit to it. But find yourself people who you can talk to. That is really important. When you feel alone, it's really hard to stay motivated. So find people who you can talk to, which the moderators in MIC are always available. There's so many people, if you send a message out in after hours, you're gonna get like 10 people at least who respond to you or DM you, you know? So find people who you can talk with, find people who keep you going because it's really difficult alone. And then just commit to it from day one. Just commit to watching them. People don't know this man, sorry to cut you off but I started to interject while you're on this subject because when MIC first started it was like guys like me, Harry, Tom, like Joe, like all the mods now. It's funny like hearing you talk about this because when MIC started, there was no video library. It was like week to week. We were like getting videos as they came out. And like we would spend like, I swear it was like 70% of our day in after hours. Like I remember like morning to night laughing my ass off because you were just surrounded by people who understood what you were going through and like what you were doing. And it was kind of like the first time in our lives. I think a lot of us, at least me, I know Harry had like some friends in training before but like for me it was like the first time in my life I met people that were on the same path as me. And I feel like that's kind of like been a massive help for you. It was like you early on met people on the same trajectory as you like with Xander and like these next gen guys and stuff like that. So how do you guys like in your tab group like how do you benefit each other? What do you guys do for each other? What has helped you guys push each other to where you're at right now? Yeah, I mean, it's relationship. It's just everything. Like we are joking with each other during the afternoons and the evenings. We're calling each other out on our shit. We are, you know, every morning pre-market we are watching the market together. We're going over plans. We're building watch lists. If one person says I'm looking at this ticker and we all pull it up and we're like, okay that's not niche. That's a big market cap or something. We'll call each other out. But it's like we go over charts together. Every Friday we just started this. Every Friday we have a call that we do. And our group is like it's Selena, AP Trades, the twins, Ponto. So like there's a lot of us in there. Jesus, that's sick. Yeah, there's like 10 or 12 of us. But yeah, it's just, it's relationship. Like we're there for each other. When one of us has a bad day and we take a loss we send our charts and we encourage each other. We talk about what we did wrong. When one of us has a really good day we congratulate each other. We are, you know, we talk about it. We go, what do we do right? How can we replicate this? And then I'm like me and Xander were, you know even on our free time, your free time needs to be disciplined. So when I have free time, I'm in our Discord group and fooling around with my friends. And we're talking trading or talking life. No jokes. Xander and I just bought oculuses and we're gonna start to watch tape. We're gonna have to do this shit together. You can watch tape and price action in your oculus. So actually tonight we're just going to get on call together, put on the oculuses and watch price action. And just mess around. So it's like- Harry and I can't do that shit. We'll be sitting there drinking and just like staring at like random tape from like 1970s. You can see three tapes by the end of that. Yeah. I love that, dude. I love that. Yeah, it's just relationship. It's like holding each other accountable. It's having fun together. It's talking, you know, the good, the bad, everything. I like, I feel like you guys are gonna be the like the poster guys for like the MIC process from like start to finish. Cause you're doing everything right. Like and you just gotta keep on that path and keep doing what you're doing. I really love it. Yeah. Oh, I just, I don't mean to cut you off. Did you ever think about taking like a vacation or like a step away from training for a little bit? Just to- Okay, so coming up this next week, we've got family coming in town. And so, you know, for my dad's memorial. So I'm forced to take a week vacation and it is killing me inside. There is nothing that I want to do more than just show up to the market every day. Now there is a balance to that. So I did not even consider taking a vacation. I'm not gonna take a vacation for a year plus if I don't have to. I'm not gonna do random crap. But there is a balance of not burning out because that is a reality. And you've got to have balance in your life but the balance needs to be controlled by discipline. So if it's like, okay, I've got an hour break. I'm not gonna go watch YouTube or go get drunk or go hang out with friends. If I've got an hour break or I need to refresh my mind, I will, you know, I'll go workout. I'll go running. I will talk to family. I'll, you know, meditate, whatever it is. So it's like, you need to have breaks so you don't burn out. But as far as vacation time or taking time away, I just can't do it. I want to succeed way too bad. And it's like I'm holding my breath until I get to that point of consistency which I'm just starting to get into. So vacations and time off is not something that I'm really, it's in the realm for me for a little while. Yeah, cause I just wanted to maybe just touch on that. Because like, you know, I'm 21 now. I got into this when I was younger, like you as well. And like you do kind of remind me of like myself a lot. And, but just know that like the burnout is real, you know, like it is real and it will come. And like, you know, you think that it won't and you're like, oh, I'm unstoppable, right? You're young. But the burnout is really real. And it can, you know, it can, you don't understand until it kind of creeps up on you. So I would really recommend that you do kind of just try a little bit. Like I know that you have the week coming up and but also that's some, some heavy stuff too. Cause like it's your dad's memorial. Like it's not really the time off. You know, you're still going to be working emotionally, you know, like you're still going to be upset. And so, you know, I would just say, just know that the burnout is real. And when you do feel it, don't keep pushing, you know, immediately take a break and say, guys, like I'm feeling burnout. Cause what I did is I just kept going through it and through it and through it and through it. And then you get out on the other side of consistency, but you have a lot of other, you know, either like personal problems or whatever that you've neglected for so long, you know, that by the time you get out on the other side, it's like where'd everyone go, you know? And, you know, you're, you won't come out the same person on the other side as you started in this journey. It's impossible. But, you know, I would really recommend that you do, you know, cause James goes to, you know, he went to New Hampshire last weekend and James is moving around too, you know, but if you can take time off in between and don't look at it as it's holding you back because my big, my biggest pivots came from time off, where I had a lot of time to think and reflect on my own trading and mistakes I've made and things I've done, that's really helped me as well. So, you know, just understand that, you know, the burnout is real, it will come. You don't think it will, but it does. And it's really what you do with it that can really turn you from a six figure trader to a seven, you know, seven figure trader, you know, that it's a big, big, big, you know, I think it's a really big deal that, you know, a lot of guys, you know, just keep working and working and working and working, but you know, when you have time to let your mind breathe and really soak in all that knowledge, you can really, really, really do really good things with it. So I just wanted to kind of point that out as well because I've been there, you know, I got into this when I was like 17, you know, I'm 21 now and it will come and you don't expect it. And then you're just, you can't do work at all. Your brain can't soak up any knowledge at all. You're like a dry sponge, you know? So I just thought that I'd kind of point that out as well because, you know, I've been there. And like I probably get burned out once every three months now, you know, just because I burned myself out so hard where I just need to take a break and, you know, sleep in a little bit and really like I'm from Canada. So I mean, up until now you couldn't really take any vacations. And even now you're not even supposed to be traveling within the fucking provinces. So it's like where the fuck am I supposed to go? You know, am I supposed to get on a plane and quarantine for two weeks without trading on the way back and pay for a fucking hotel? Like, you know? No, it's important. I think I have such a opposite view of most. Like I always see on Twitter, the people that are like, oh, I'm putting in like 200 hours a week and doing everything I can. And I always think that is really important. Like I think obviously studying it, this is so key but also like remembering like why you do it is so important. Like that's why I try to get away on the weekends. Like I try to like, and I try not to open up Slack and do any of that shit like the best I can. Or like I spend like every morning before work and go eat with my mom and my sister. And like I see my dad when I can, like it's just, you know, doing those things to remind yourself like why you're working so hard actually like propels you forward faster, I think. And it just, it just makes it easier. And I think that the fact that you have this group that you're going to be able to push each other pretty far. So I really like what you guys are doing. And I think I'm just very impressed. I don't see many young guys kind of putting in the head, the work into this that you guys are. I have friends that are in their late 20s or like 30s that some of them want to do it. And I don't see them putting in half the work or even 25%. So I really, I really commend you guys. I think it's cool. No, I appreciate that. And it's really true what you're saying, Harry. I think like the key for me with that is like acknowledging what season I'm in. So like when I first started trading or first started like educating myself, I think that for anybody who's getting into it there is a season where you need to like, you know, cut everything out, you need to like bottom down, do nothing but like trading. But then what you're saying, which is very true is like acknowledging when is the season shifting to where it's time for you to take a deep breath or it's time for you to allow your thoughts to kind of sink in. And I actually, I did push myself too far as like a couple of months ago and I felt that burnout. And that's when stuff with the family was happening. So I kind of had like a forced time off. And I came back to it like, you know, the beginning of October feeling really refreshed. So I do, yeah, it's really true what you're saying. And it's so difficult for me though, because it's like, if I take time off, I feel like I'm slacking and I feel like I'm missing opportunity. I've got like FOMO, man. No, no, there's tough. If Harry and I aren't even here, we're texting each other, like talking about like Slack, talking about what's going on, something being said or whatever. Talking to like fucking shit about someone. It's always such like, it's literally tough, but it's just, it's hard. It's hard to avoid this stuff. But I guess where you're at in your career now, like what's something you're like struggling with? Is there anything that's giving you trouble from getting to the next step? Like kind of touch on that if you can. Yeah, I mean, definitely it's psychology, my own mind. You guys talked about this with David, the last podcast was Imposter Syndrome. And that's something that's actually been a topic in our tag group since then, and we've been dwelling on it a lot. That's the most difficult thing for me. Going into October and everything, I found like a level of consistency and I feel like I can look at a chart and I know what to do. But what I'm trying to do now is size up into that. Nothing crazy. I'm not like tripling my size and stuff. I'm sizing up small, but when I go to size up, I like get like caniky and I feel like, no, like I can't size up yet. Like I haven't learned the process enough, right? I don't have enough consistency or I'm gonna take big losses. So I guess that would be the biggest thing that's stopping me from moving forward would be psychology of like trying to get past the fear of losses, get past the fear of feeling like I don't know enough. And that imposter syndrome is definitely something that I'm trying to overcome right now. Yeah, I think you're in a situation where you have a bit of the knowledge now and but like the account is kind of lagging a bit behind. And what I kind of did when I was like in that stage is like I completely stopped focusing on the P&L day today. I completely stopped focusing on those kind of fluctuations. And I really tried to make good habits in my trading every single day. And by doing that, that has kind of like snowballed and snowballed and snowballed because P&L has always been a lagging indicator, right? You get the knowledge, you get the experience, you get the whatever, P&L slowly lags behind that. And it's a slow process. And you're like, man, I know how to do this. I know how to do that. Like what is stopping me? But it's just the P&L is such a slow lagging process. And what people do is that, they think P&L should be X or P&L should be this. And they get in a situation where they start over trading and they start really trying to make that P&L catch up and catch up and catch up and catch up. And so what you can do is just focus on the process and don't focus on who you wanna be or who you wanna become more someone else or me or James or anyone else like that. Just really, really focus on your own growth and your own journey. And I know it sounds kind of dumb and kind of stupid but that is something that really, really helped me a lot. Like I'm, and I talked about this with David too. Like I have half a Twitter muted. I have half these fuckers muted because I don't fucking care about them, bro. They're not like Alex or Bao or James or people in my own circle. They're external. And so I try and keep barriers around that external life to keep these people out. Like it's like I'm a fucking guy with a spear and I'm in my circle, you know? If you try and come in and you come in too fast or too quickly or too far, I'm gonna fucking stab you. Get the fuck out, you know? And I also wanted to touch on one thing where, you know, that was fucked. I also wanted to touch on one thing where, you know, we kind of talked about earlier where we talked about, you know, overworking. You know, I asked myself all the time, you know, if I didn't put in this much work and like I took breaks and went out and partied every weekend, would I be here? And like, that's a hard question to struggle with too. Would I have made it on my own or was it that extra work and that burnout that took me to this point, you know? So I mean, you're always juggling that in your mind, you know, every single second, you know, just wondering like when people ask me like, oh, what got you here? What got you there? Like, do I say it was the burnout and the whatever? Or, you know, like, so I don't know, you know? It's a hard question to struggle with and I think everyone is different with it, you know? Yeah, yeah. So I think, I think with the imposter stuff, well, first of all, the last week I took Harry's advice and I just unfollowed on Twitter. Like, it wasn't even more so people, some people, but it was more so like, I unfollowed like any people, anyone who was arrogant, like just like talked about trading like they were like a godsend and I got rid of those people. I got rid of the negative kind of like news feeds too. Like anything that I can look at and like bother me and like give me kind of like a weird mental psychological state in the morning and even at night and I got rid of it and honestly, God, I sleep better at night. I feel better. Like I just like am generally I feel more positive. So that was a really good piece of advice and I really liked that. And then as far as the imposter syndrome thing, I think everyone has that at some point. They're like, is this real life and a good, like this might be kind of off the path so stay with me, but I was talking to one of my clients who's a heart surgeon. And I asked him this kind of question about the imposter syndrome because we were talking about trading actually and I was saying how that's what it felt like this was a while ago. And he was saying like, he's like, you know, I went through all this work at school. I studied my ass off, like I put in the hours I did this and by the time I got there, he's like, I didn't feel like an imposter. I just felt like I was getting kind of what I deserve and like what I was, what I earned because I put in so many hours and so much time that like he's like, I just didn't have that. And I kind of took that into my trading. Like I have put in the work and like I know people who have put in the work and like, so obviously it doesn't come right away sometimes but when it does, it's kind of like, fuck yeah, like I'm here, I need to accept it. And then that's like a whole new mentality of like, all right, now I know what I'm doing and how to execute it. And then it's just doing what you're doing now, just slowly sizing up, slowly growing. And yeah, I mean, I think the problem, you'll know if it's imposter syndrome, if you have those like dumb fucking, I think people go on streets of good luck where they win a couple of times and then they blow up. But if you're someone who's like actually in that winning mentality and like your washes are controlled, your emotions are controlled, then it's like that imposter syndrome, I think will slowly start to fade away naturally. And like I said, you guys are killing it now. So it's like, just eventually you'll wake up one day and you're like, it hit me like not that long ago. I was just like, this is my life, this is my job. I come, I have a fucking ATM machine in my house and like I just wake up, I roll over to my computer and like, this is what I do. It's not like a scared thing anymore. It's not like, am I gonna be successful at this? Just like, this is it. So that'll hit you at some point too. And sooner rather than you think, I think too. So like I said, man, I love what you're doing. And obviously we've hit our kind of time limit here but the last piece for you, do you have any last minute advice for any new traders coming in? I mean, don't give up, right? Like don't give up. It's gonna be a really long journey. You're gonna have days where you want nothing but to just roll your computer out the wall where it's something that's just not clicking or somebody's doing better than you. And you just got to what Bao always says, don't compare your level one to somebody's a level 100. So just stay in your lane, don't give up, keep fighting for it and keep it simple. That really screwed me over because I'm a major over thinker and specifically with the MISC process, it's so simple. Like there's so much to it, but it's so simple to learn. It's so simple to follow. You just have to get the process inside of yourself and then it becomes like second nature which is what I'm starting to feel. So keep it simple, don't overthink things, don't try to rush it, stay in your lane and just keep moving forward. Every single day just do one thing to move forward and surround yourself with people that promote that, that encourage you with that, that don't make you feel like you should be doing something you're not, that don't make you feel like you should be going all in. Surround yourself with people that encourage you in the proper way to succeed in trading and not in the wear Lambo mindset. You've got to find the right way to surround yourself. I completely agree with it. I think for you now, it's just a matter of slowly compounding those habits and slowly compounding the P&L and just everything. For you, it's just a game of time compounding and keeping your losses under control. And if you can do that, then you're going to be super successful, right? Yeah, for sure. So we cut it there, that was good, I like that ending. Awesome.