 But now we enter the Q&A portion of the state of the word. By the way, if you want to hear more from me, photomat.tumblr, doing a podcast on distributed.blog, which is like talking about distributed work. I'm at Photomat on the Legacy Social Networks. And my blog is ma.tt. If you want to see the TS Eliot poem that I referred to earlier when I said they should have sent a poem. I just posted that, I think, last night. How the Q&A portion works of this is that there's no screening, there's no, we have no idea what's about to happen. But luckily, in this room, we have a lot of answers to things far beyond what I'm aware of. And if you have a question, I think this is the spot to go to, right? So please come on up. I guess I should have given you a little more warning that we were about to do this, but anything that's on your minds we can talk about. Michelle, yeah, do you mind grabbing the microphone for her? Yeah. Hi. Michelle for shut. I'm here with post status today. And say where you came from, just so everyone kind of around the world can hear where we're from. The other side of New York, not very far. I live in Rochester. So first, I want to thank the open source project for taking seriously my article on accessibility issues that I encountered at WordCampUS. And my suggestions, I put some suggestions in there that have been taken seriously, like creating a new section for the WordCamp organizer handbook, and creating an accessibility team for WordCampUS 2023. So kudos to you and those who are making web accessibility decisions more than just the web accessibility, but the community accessibility in all ways. So I wanted to thank you for that. But my question's unrelated to that. So last year at State of the Word, you announced the photo directory, which I was happy to give a bunch of photos to kind of seed that and get that going. We now have over 5,000, probably close to 5,500 photos in there. And we have several moderators. We're working real hard to get those published. If you've submitted, we're all here right now. You might need to wait a day or two, but we'll get to this. I'm going to call that a successful campaign in a year to have over 5,500 photos is amazing. And those are all the creative comments. So people can use them however they want. They don't have to attribute to us. It's just really wonderful. But the question is, where do we go from here? So we have a lot of people who have been putting photos in. I don't know that a lot of people know about the directory and can take photos out and use them however they'd like. So what are the steps to getting people to understand that they don't have to go to Unsplash. They don't have to go to Pexels or whatever. They can come to WordPress for those things. And then is there a way for the people who are contributing to have an idea, not necessarily like where did your picture get used because you just download them, but how many downloads for pictures and how successful are what we're doing? If I'm contributing 200 photos, are they just sitting there or are people using them? So I know that's a lot of questions. No, that's a fantastic idea. It is, right? You can credit me when you actually make that work. Definitely. Well, we just did. Yeah, it's true. One of the best things about contributing to Open Source is the idea, I still imagine this, like lines of code I've written are executing hundreds of millions of times per day across, like, millions of websites. It's one of the funnest parts. And we do have tools, for example, the plug-in theme directory that sort of say how often things are used, which is a contributor. And there's no reason we couldn't start to increment some stats, at least for how often a photo or something from the Openverse is downloaded. Yeah, absolutely. According to the API. Again, we won't know exactly how it's being used, because that's all run locally. We don't have any tracking. I think that'd be pretty exciting. Well, the other things I like about as we start to embed more of this is that we can sort of automate the giving of credit, whether that's required or not, by the license. Like if you insert a photo, it could have a little caption, like, photo by, you know, so and so, that sort of thing, which I actually think is a pretty neat also incentive. I know it's always fun. I've licensed a lot of my photography under the GPL before. And it's been built into themes and other things. And it's always kind of exciting for me to visit a website and, like, oh, there's my sheep, a famous one from the 2010 theme. So yeah, it's very satisfying as a photographer to think about my works now out there. So yeah, we should definitely do that. Thank you for the suggestion. And then how do we get people to use it and know about the director was the other question. Using the directory, I think we need a lot more stuff on there. So I think that, you know, relative to an Unsplash or Pexels or Shutterstock or something like that, our library is still relatively small. So I think combining our library with the open-verse library, like I said, has millions of things there, will make it just a lot more compelling that when you search, there's always something there for whatever you might be searching for. I think we also need to figure out how to have people in it. Right now, as you know, we don't allow faces or anything like that, because there's sort of additional laws and copyright around having a likeness of a person in a photo that isn't really well covered by, like, even creative comments licenses, like a model release or something. And we're still navigating what that would look like. When I think about what might be coming next there, I think some of the AI stuff we talked about could be really interesting. So for example, there's models that create faces that don't exist in real life, which is great, because then there's no person that's been affected by, like, the reuse of their likeness or something. So perhaps that's something we start to do is you can upload a photo of a person, and we'll be able to, like, create a fake person that gets overlaid over the face. And then there's no, you know, you don't have to license your own likeness to be used in the world. So that could be one thing. And then also just using all the library as, like, a starting point. So whether that stable diffusion or something else that we could build in, these open source models, that you can start to modify things just using commands, prompts. I think that would also get people to use a lot more. We already have some, like, built into Goodberg as, like, duotone, which changes the colors of photos. So we can do some stuff with CSS to style things, blur them, do other stuff like that. But what if, you know, you really like that photo I have of the sheep, but you wanted to be cows instead? In theory, this is something you could call one of these models, or tell one of these models, like, take this photo, replace the sheep with cows, and it does it. It's kind of wild. We should try that, actually, with that one, see if it actually works. But that is where these models are going. And like I said, they are getting quick, are better, so quickly. The models that GPT-3, chat GPTs based on 3.5, so like a middle one, the next versions of this are going from hundreds of billions of inputs to, like, a 10X on that, like, trurium plus. And that will just improve the quality that much more. So that's what I think will be next there. Thank you. I'm going to add a tag. Going to add a quick tag. Josepha, in case you forgot me, we also, when Openverse came over with us, did a little bit of research about how to do provenance with the Creative Commons folks, to see how that can work in kind of an open source CC licensing setting. We haven't done a lot with it, but we're aware. We're looking at it, so. Cool. I'll finally say, just like we want Gutenberg to be a gift to the web and used places more than WordPress, Openverse is a completely open API. And so is our directory. So if other CMSs, whether that's open source ones, like Drupal or Ghost or something, or proprietary ones, they want to build in the Openverse, that is completely open to them, too. Again, it's part of, like, as we are trying to create the web that we want to exist, it's going to be more than just WordPress, and we want to make the tools that we're creating available to others as well. All right, thank you. What's our next question? Hi, Allie Nimmins. I'm here from Austin, Texas. Woo-hoo! I think I can speak for everyone here when I just say thank you to you, to co-founder Mike Little, and to everyone else who followed for this big, beautiful, amazing thing that has changed my life and changed, I think, a lot of our lives. As a community member, I really enjoy looking at how we, all of us, everyone watching and listening, can improve, patch, grow all of these ideas and systems and practices that make up this community. And a big part of that for me is being uncomfortable and brave in addressing challenges, problems, doubts, and struggles that we might have. And as I grow as a community member into a leader in this community, I find myself inspired by people like Josepha who are able to do this elegantly and wisely and kindly. And so as our most visible leader, what do you think is the biggest challenge that WordPress is facing right now? And how can we, as a community of people, begin to or continue to lovingly address those challenges? That's a tough question. Thank you. I think what really strikes me about it, we have a lot of teams that work on different parts of WordPress. There's like an accessibility team, a security team, a translation team. And part of what I've become to appreciate is in kind of the systems thinking of addressing the problems that WordPress is trying to address. Like creating basically an operating system for the open web that you can build anything on top of. How every single part of that's important. And sometimes some of the struggles we have is one of those teams being like, hey, we're not getting enough attention. Or hey, we messed up on accessibility. Something like that. And it's true. Often maybe we didn't give enough attention to one of those areas. Or we didn't have our security program covering enough of the plugins or whatever it might be. But each one of those is almost like its own lunch pen that's supporting all the others. It's like a lattice work where they're all, actually all quite important. And part of what I think is so important about us having a broad and diverse group of contributors is that without one of those, the whole thing would collapse a little bit. And we can't pay attention to just like core and ignore the plugin infrastructures or something like that. So a little bit, we do shift attention and give more attention to some things some years and kind of move around a little bit. But as more and more people get involved, WordPress, the nice thing is that we can kind of work on them all at the same time. Divide up the problem essentially. In open source, there's a saying, with many eyes, all bugs are shallow. Basically meaning that like, yeah, any one of this would be overwhelming for any one developer, myself or whoever it is. But when you get like people specializing in lots of different areas, it's almost like an economy works, right? Where one of my favorites, I think it's Adam Smith who spoke about in the wealth of nations, the idea of a pencil and how simple a pencil is. But when you think about everything that goes into making that pencil, literally no one personal, no one company could have done it. There's the little metal thing. How is the metal found? The eraser, the lead, the shaping, the machines that shape it, the distribution, how it was distributed to stores and everything like that. When you start to think a pencil, even if it was maybe like a craft pencil, maybe a single person, the final putting together the pencil, all the things that went into that, including the feed and shelter of the person who made it, is like tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, supply chain lines that go across everything. Something we've also been on people's minds now a little bit as supply chains are getting disrupted or got disrupted this year. So I think about it like that. So, but thank you for that question. That's a tough one. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Come on up, come on up. Hi. Hi, my name's Laura Byrne. I'm just from across the river in Montclair, New Jersey. We had WordCamp Montclair last year. I think we were one of two North American WordCamps last year. We're gonna have it again. And one of my favorite things we had at that camp is we had folks from the All Women Release Squad do a panel. We had Josepho, we had Michelle, Ebony Butler, and I am forgetting someone. Courtney, thank you so much. She's in the room. She's gonna kill me. I'm sitting next to her. This is very embarrassing. So anyway, I tried to dig myself out of this hole. I think that release squad was phenomenal. Can we do it again? Sure. When? When would you like to? I don't know. I'm thinking 2023, maybe the second half of 2023. Sounds like a really good idea. What do you think? Yeah, we could totally do that. All right. We just got a plan for it, I guess. So let's start planning out what's release. It's definitely one of those things. So for those who aren't familiar, each release of WordPress has kind of a different team that comes together that is in charge of it. So essentially I'm like the lead developer of WordPress, but really it's kind of like we're passing the torch from different folks, which allows different teams to have an impact. And we did this experiment with the All Women Release Lead Squad. That was a lot of fun. And what's that? And non-binary. And non-binary, thank you. So that sort of experimentation is I think part of the beauty of it. We all get some practice like creating a WordPress release, releasing and getting it out there. And folks can bring different aspects. It's part of why we name, if you don't know, we name actually every WordPress release in honor of a jazz musician. And part of the fun thing for me is looking at the characteristics of a release and what's jazz musician kind of matches that or complements it, or whose life story might be part of that. Actually, if you go around and look in the office, the records that are in some of the conference rooms here, they're all the jazz musician releases. Thank you, Tina. Thank you, Pablo. And thank you, my friend, Marcos, who's we have a professional jazz musician here actually, Marcos Varela. So yeah, thank you for this suggestion. We'll do it. Cool, thank you. And one last plug, WordCamp Montclair is happening in June 2023. We would love it if you might come. Oh, cool. Right across the river, you said. Yes. It's so much fun. June 23. And I guess we had two WordCamps last year. The slide said one, so we must have had at least two. Yeah, cool. Well, thank you for that back check as well. Okay, great. Thank you. I love New York. It really is like one of the great cities of the world. And so whenever here, I get really inspired in the energy and everything. The shops, the small businesses, like, man. All right, thank you. Hey, good afternoon. My name is Ryan Marks, I'm with Pantheon, and I'm here from Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Cool. So two years ago with the release of WordPress 5.6, we introduced beta support for PHP. A week ago, PHP 8.2 came out, and at the end of November, PHP 7.4, end of life. We currently have only beta support for WordPress on the support grid, on the support chart. All of the yeses have asterisks with beta support. So what's the plan to get us to fully support? The request, the post from the make team two years ago said, there was a call for all plugin and theme developers to become compatible so that WordPress could be fully supported. What's the status on that? And at what level does all themes and plugins need to be fully supported, or compatible, for WordPress to be fully compatible? Cool, let me make sure I'm understanding this. So basically you're saying that the new versions of PHP 8 are sort of supports, like how WordPress Core supports them is still beta, or? So all of the PHP 8 columns, and all of... And where are these columns? They're in, they're on the make site of the supported versions of PHP and WordPress, so there's a grid, and all of the yeses for all of the PHP versions are yes, asterisks. And at the bottom it says beta support. And so it's for enterprise companies who are looking to use WordPress, today WordPress is only available in beta. Gotcha, do you know, because I know we have a lot of sites running WordPress on PHP 8 too. Do you know what this might be in reference to, or anyone have an answer? All right, right back there, let's pass the mic. And Barry, we are running WordPress on a ton of PHP 8s, our PHP 8 on a ton of WordPress sites, right? Yeah, and you have an answer, okay, well let's give both. Yeah, so Jonathan, I work a lot on Core, Core contributor. So the changes in PHP 8 are pretty foundational, there's a lot of really far reaching changes, and to properly support them is a lot of work. And so all of the unit tests for WordPress Core will pass on these, but we can't really speak for plugins and themes and how they use these features on PHP 8x. And so we can't really say yes, we fully support PHP 8.1.2 because we can't vouch for every plugin and theme. And so it's a real gray area where it's difficult to really own that and confidently say that, even though our contributor teams have put in the work and they have made Core itself running on its own, 90-ish percent compatible with these versions of PHP 8, with the exception of 8.2, which just came out, we're still working on that one. So yeah, does that answer your question? And Barry, did you want to add anything to that? Let's get the mic over to you. Yeah, so let's get the, yeah. Yeah, so I actually think that lack of PHP 8 support, whether it's like in practice or in theory, is really important for WordPress. And so I actually asked about this today because we still have all these asterisks and beta tags next to, and it's not only PHP 8.2, it's PHP 8.0, 8.1, 8.2, is all not officially supported by Core WordPress, not plugins and themes. So apparently, and I'm actually gonna talk to the PHP team, PHP Core team about this because part of the difficulty is the lack of backwards compatibility maintenance between PHP versions, but also there's not really a compelling reason for folks to upgrade to PHP 8. So those two things together make it hard to upgrade. But in Core, we do need to do a better job and of having complete PHP 8.0 support, at least in Core and also in these, what did you call them? Not community plugins, but canonical plugins. Cononical plugins. Yeah, canonical plugins. And Tanya Monk assures me today that is a top priority for her and her team in 2023. So hopefully that means in January. But yeah, we do need to, we do need to, I heard it was something with the requests library, do you know about that? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, because so people not here can hear. Yeah, so I heard there was like a kind of a second party library. So it's something that was imported into WordPress that we didn't write, but we I think are one of the few folks using it. And so we kind of maintain it. There were some issues there. And I think that's why most of those asterisks are there. But we do, like you said, have thousands and thousands of sites running successfully on PHP 8, PHP 8.1 with tons of plugins and themes. So it works in practice, but I think in theory it has these asterisks next to it, which we need to resolve as soon as possible. Could be a fun thing for Playground as well. So people could spin up like a copy of their site in the Wasm version inside the browser and then test things out, see how it works. Although there could be other problems introduced by that because it's not using MySQL, which is the standard backend of WordPress. It's using SQLite and some translation layers for that. So yeah, it's interesting. PHP, and so the good news, it sounds scary when PHP says we're end of lifeing. PHP 7.4, even that terminology, end of life. You don't want to end of life your website. But in practice what happens is every major web host essentially continues to backport security fixes and other things so that older versions of PHP, even though they're not officially supported by the PHP core anymore, effectively get their life extended by quite a bit. So it's not yet end of life. Including automatic. So we have a PHP 7.4 fork on GitHub in which we have backport to not only security fixes, but bug fixes from PHP 8 releases. And that's available so that's on GitHub. Anybody can use it, anybody can download it. And we're committed to maintaining that backport until there is significant adoption in the WordPress community and other PHP projects in order to kind of officially EOL 7.4 and move forward with the eight versions. Cool, EOL, the nice way to say end of life. So that is continuing to go on. I will say that PHP 7 was one of my favorite releases ever. Like it doubled speed a couple of times. It was really amazing. The PHP project with eight has gone a slightly different direction. And I think they're gonna have an adoption challenge just in journal, not just from WordPress, until they add some more compelling features, as you said, and maybe work on some backwards compatibility. So perhaps it could also be something that as we co-develop and contribute and give feedback that in their PHP 8.3 or 8.4, maybe they can do some things that'll make it easier, not just for us, but for the entire PHP community to upgrade. Cool, thank you for that. Okay, so 12 minutes. So we got a couple more questions. I'll try to go through these a little faster. And if you have one, do you mind going up or getting in line? Hi, Matt. I work with you on Tumblr. It's Andy Rang from Oleand, New York. And I have questions from the internet for you, from the legacy websites, legacy social. Will WordPress be a thing after the entire focus is moved in Gutenberg? That's from Arland Nushi on YouTube. Wow, so will WordPress still be a thing? Yes, more than ever. So we talk a lot about Gutenberg, because like I said, it's something that is transforming WordPress. Like I said, when we started it, it's basically the biggest change in WordPress' whole history, to go to this block paradigm. But it's enabling all the core things we do in WordPress. So we're essentially using these paradigms of Gutenberg to create the next generation that hopefully makes WordPress more radically accessible, particularly the folks who might not have as much ability to code, which is always something. Like I said, we want WordPress to be radically accessible, regardless of technical ability. So if we want to democratize publishing, which has been our mission for 20 years now, we need to make it easier to use, and that is what Gutenberg does. So, yep, more WordPress than ever. And WordPress now, I believe, on the W3 tax is over 40% of all websites, and on built with, which is what we're switching to, we're at like a 33% or something. I think I spoke last year, W3 tax is going, or the data set is changing. So a third of all websites are running it, and that's about more than 10x the number two in the marketplace, which is pretty exciting. It's power of open source. Thank you. Thank you. And I'd like to just note for everyone that the rest of these questions will be posted on a .org blog post and answered there as well. So. Oh cool, so if we don't get the questions, we'll answer them asynchronously afterwards. This line is now longer than ever. I'll try to go quickly. Hey Matt, Courtney Robertson, GoDaddy Pro Dev Advocate, and co-rep right now of the training team. Two years ago, during the Q&A for your state of the word address, we launched Learn that year. Last year we shared a lot of stats about it. We heard more today about it. I am really passionate about working with anyone that wants to learn WordPress on to getting them into the job market and help vet the things that are on our WordPress jobs board. So that question said, things like certification are starting to come up again. Our community talked about it and visited it in 2015. Myself at the time, I was opposed. And that tune has changed because I saw how hard it was as an educator to find ways to get people adequately trained for jobs and also seeing so many jobs being posted, people applying, and they don't have the skills with WordPress. They might know the other programming languages. Can you speak a little bit more about why certifications are something on the roadmap for Learn? Sure. I'll say that my thinking on this has evolved as well. Maybe it's similar direction to yours. Typically around certifications, it just felt like a lot of overhead to do. Like what does it mean to be officially certified on WordPress? And also changing every year. Like WordPress is evolving so quickly. What does it mean? How do you update that? But now, exactly like you said, I feel like as there's more demand for WordPress developers and experts ever, having some sort of standardized education that they go to. Not like many professional organizations. Like if you're a doctor or a pilot, it's kind of an ongoing training. There's something that's, be able to fly the plane in the first place and then there's like ongoing training that you go through every year. Real estate agents, every, many professional organizations have this. I guess mostly I just want to figure out how we can do it in a WordPress-y way. Like there's probably some de minimis cost because like an exam needs to be proctored or something like that. But we want to make this content, training material, everything as radically open as possible. So, but I think we can do it now. So there's some, we're in two ongoing conversations. And I think it's fine for there to be sort of for profit things doing this. And we can point to some of them, especially if they're aligned with their ESOS and philosophy. And then also hopefully there's lots of nonprofits around like retraining people and others. Maybe we can partner with some of them as well to point to. Thank you. Hi, Matt. Oops. My name is Bud Krause. I operate as Joy of WP. And first I'm up here because I want to, well I was up here last year and everybody saw me around the world and said, hey, I saw you on State of the World. So I decided I would do it. Hi mom. Exactly. But no, in all seriousness, I do have a question. And that is, what do you see it as the future of themes? Because with 2023, with all this design agnostic, it was style variations and I think you even alluded to the fact like one theme. Are we going to get to the point where there's a universal theme and that's it? And that's it. That's it. That's a great question. I think we're essentially going to have a bifurcation of themes. So they'll be essentially like for most designs and most like standard themes, I can see those being built on just maybe one or two different themes. Like maybe it's great block theme. Maybe it's like something else that comes up. But like pretty well standardized. I think there'll be some other kind of community themes that might do like either weird or stuff. Like I remember we've had like a command line theme before or something else. So there might be like sort of more radical designs that happen. And then I guess, but the real bifurcation will come is there's of course some themes, like let's say Divi or others, which are on the surface themes but are really almost like entire applications embedded. So they're using the distribution and kind of the bundling of themes to include basically a bunch of plugins as well and other stuff. These are really, really popular and actually do a lot to bring people onto WordPress because they bundle so many things that otherwise you might have to cobble together or assemble like a bunch of different plugins and things to do. So I think those are gonna be around for a long time because essentially they're almost like applications being bundled. They're using on the surface themes but they're really something else. And perhaps we need a new name for those as well. Just like we're starting to differentiate between community and commercial in the directories. Perhaps those we need a new word for because it's really kind of like a theme plus an app that's bundled as one. So a THAP, I don't know, we'll think of it. Sometimes naming is not my strong point. I come on up. Hello, I'm Nev Harris from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This might be a crazy question but the discussion about GPT earlier had me thinking about this. When I owned an agency for eight years, the biggest problem we had of our class that didn't have a big budget was content, getting the website written. We would call that the build the launch gap. Now, I'm thinking for like a mechanic who builds his website, gets it ready but doesn't know what to say about our world change. And if he goes to GPT and says, what are the benefits to getting your world changed every 90 days? Then he can get his website launched a lot quicker. Would there be any way or any thinking about implementing, integrating GPT with WordPress to get these websites launched quicker? Totally. I think so right now these models typically are, it's been like every query costs like a couple pennies. And so it might be something that sort of is more like integrating APIs with commercial services. Whether that's from WordPress companies or like more broader ones like OpenAI. And I think there's some specifically around like copywriting, like is it Jarvis is one of them? I'm forgetting some of the names, but there's already some like they have taken these large Angular models and applied them to like creating copy for marketing pages or something like that. Now, if websites were just being written by these things, I think that would be kind of boring because they have a style of writing, which is like the more you read it, you can kind of recognize it. And they're even talking about embedding some fingerprinting and things. So you could take part of text and like identify whether it was generated by GPT or some of these others. But I think if that is kind of like a creative grist that perhaps inspires you to rewrite something or something like that, that's pretty powerful. So again, I think just the AI created stuff has one level of coolness, but ultimately is not like raising the culture. And what humans do does do that, but there's sometimes that sort of blink canvas problem or the writer's block, like you're just staring at, you're not sure where to start. So if we can combine this, both for maybe giving you ideas where to start to write and edit something. And then finally on the backend, helping you edit. But there's been tools like Grammarly and other things, spell check, obviously, that have certainly improved my writing. And the next level of those where you might be able to say, hey, I wrote this essay. How could I make it a little bit shorter? Or how could I make this a little punchier or something like that? And you can get feedback where it analyzes your writing and maybe helps you iterate and improve it. I think that's actually pretty powerful. So there's these studies where they would show like just humans playing a game like chess, got to a certain level, just a computer playing it, got to a certain level, eventually the ultimate level. But for a while, the human plus the computer working together or the computer would suggest some moves and the humans would choose them, which they call centaurs. And you know, the combination human horse type thing is the most powerful. And I actually think that's the future of these creative works as sort of centaur creation. Thank you. Thank you. We'll make these the last three. Yeah, three and five minutes. We got it. Cool. Challenge accepted, Joseph. Michelle Butcher-Jones, I'm sponsored by Pageley and from Carbidella, Illinois. For the first 20 years of WordPress, it's been rather easy of getting like the older gen X generation, millennial generations, coming into WordPress and helping contribute, build and everything. And, but now in a way with the change of, for myself having a Gen Z daughter and then the Alpha generation is they're seeing more of wanting to be more of influencer when it comes to tech and different stuff like that than actually like work on code and stuff. And as one of the front people pushing for the kids camps and to bring them in to WordPress that way. And then also with our training that we're setting up. But what are we really doing and thinking of the future of keeping the in course of the younger ones and younger generations coming? Yeah. You alluded to it, but I think education is so important. And we need to get into schools at every single level, elementary, middle, high school, college. And teach these skills. Because when you learn these skills, they actually are lifelong skills. When you learn a little bit of HTML, a little bit of CSS, that this gives you much like learning an instrument or learning something else like a language you can use the rest of your life to be creative and express yourself. And sort of learning a little bit how computers work I think is in many ways like a new type of literacy that just opens up entire worlds in a really powerful way. Two, we need to make it easier to onboard and things like Gutenberg, everything we just talked about. I hope will help a lot with that. And the third thing, which is a little bit kind of a side personal project I've been working on. You might notice I've got the double verified check mark. That's a little homage to... We launched on Tumblr, this thing where for $8 instead of one check mark, you can get two. But Tumblr is something I've been working on a lot personally. And so automatic a few years ago, acquired Tumblr. I've been functioning as the CEO of that since February. Tumblr is social blogging, basically. So it's a cool thing about Tumblr is over half the user base is under 25. It's more female than male and more mobile. And it's doing 50, 100,000 sign ups depending on the day, every day. So a ton of new people are coming in and it's really fun. So we are transitioning Tumblr to be powered by WordPress. So it's not there yet, but you'll be able to use Tumblr like a social network on your phone or whatever. But the sort of what we call the web network. Where you have a subdomain or a custom domain on Tumblr, that'll all be WordPress themes. So what I'm hoping is that Tumblr can actually provide an on-ramp for an entirely new generation that has the fun blogging aspect. That's very social. So you can learn that part. But when you're ready to expand your web presence or portfolio or have a store or something like that, then when you learn that, you'll actually be learning WordPress. And that's a skill which you could take to any web host, to any part of the whole WordPress ecosystem. So I'm hoping that can be a new on-ramp as well. That's just kind of something personally I'm working on and with Automatic, so. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, Matt. Robert Jacoby from Cloudways. I did buy my two... Checkmark. Checkmark, so. You're double verified. Double verified. Inspired by the Pantheon question and PHP, will there ever be a backwards compatibility break if there is a technology sufficient enough to accelerate the WordPress ecosystem? Hmm, a backwards compatibility, so, yeah. And so Gutenberg is a backwards incompatible change. And remember in previous years, when Gutenberg was first being introduced, there was a lot of resistance to it. There's still some. It's getting better. People are really opened up to Gutenberg. It's on like majority new sites and everything. But I would talk a lot that Gutenberg was something new to learn. It was a completely different tech stack and ever all the plugins and everything are going to be updated. But I'd say it's hashtag worth it, right? Like, it's a big change, but we think that this is worth doing. And we don't do it that often. It's the biggest backwards, basically, you can run a theme written for WordPress from 2005 on WordPress 6.1 today, 17 years later, and it works. Which is why I think it's not like that kind of break. Like if you would say that WordPress 10 can't run on anything except PHP 4,000. Yeah. We'll see, you know, never say never. And we'll see what is coming in new versions of technology. This definitely features that, for example, require a newer browser in WordPress or things like this WebAssembly language that allows the playground feature. Like, that's not going to be supported in, you know, Internet Explorer 8 or anything like that. So we are definitely saying like newer technologies, but we try to make that a progressive enhancement. So saying, like for example, some of this new stuff, like the block interface is way more complex. So if you're using like a screen reader to interact with WordPress, there's a lot going on. And if you just want to do a post, maybe that's too much. So we always have like the classic editor if you want to switch back or alternative ways of posting the WordPress, whether it's the APIs and other things. So that there's more than one way to do it. And depending on what sort of like you need to do, there's many ways to post, many ways to edit, many ways to do everything, including all these APIs, both the XMLRPC and the REST API that are built in. So, but never say never. We'll see. Thank you. Last question. All right, hope it's good. We'll see, we'll see. Mike Melanson, I'm with the GitHub's the readme project. Oh, cool. When you were talking earlier about Project Gutenberg, I was remembering the beginning of this year, there was talk about the block protocol from Joel Spolsky. Yeah. And you responded that you guys were interested in helping out with that for taking somehow, I'm curious, what's happened since then, if anything? Yeah, so block protocol, and Joel Spolsky is like an incredible developer. If you're a developer, or I guess he's a leader now, but his Joel on software essays is one of these books that's like a little older, but so timeless. And New York City, I believe as well. And it was part of creating Fog Creek. What else did they do? Glitch. What's that? A stack overflow. Oh yeah. I forget the big one. So so much. Sometimes developers don't like to work together on the same thing. And so it's part of why there's like 200 CMSs and stuff like that. Like sometimes there might be a stylistic or a technical change that when you look at it, you say like, I can't use this thing that exists. I'm gonna start something that's different. And I think that's a little bit what's happening with Gutenberg and the block protocols. And so as we've gotten involved, like we're definitely communicating as the projects, but they feel like there's some things that are choices in Gutenberg or ways we develop things that just are incompatible with how they see it happening. We'll see where that goes in the future. Like I said, Gutenberg, we've tried to make CMS agnostic so it could be embedded in anything. And reskin, like you saw with the Tumblr example, that can be totally different. And everything we're doing is open. So I would hope that wherever they end up, Gutenberg blocks could maybe be embedded. Maybe there's a translation layer or something like that in their editor. And it's totally fine for there to be other editors. If we can do something for users, where if they copy and paste or just some sort of translation layer, I think that would be really ideal. And where I hope we end up. One of the cool things about that being more than one thing, like multiple editors as well, is maybe they create something really cool. That's open source. And then we're like, oh, let's bring that over to Gutenberg. So the innovation can flow both ways. And sometimes maybe that's only possible if you're starting something from scratch. So they're open source, they're doing open protocols, everything like that. So I consider them like a cousin project. And I hope that we can integrate more in the future. But if not, that's okay too. Maybe this will just be an alternative ecosystem that can experiment with new ideas or maybe things we would say no to. They can try and then we see how it's adopted by users. Cool. Well, thank you so much. We are going to end there. If you're here in New York, we'll now go. We'll have some snacks and just hanging out. We'll be pretty open if you want to stay for a while. And for those of you tuning in online, thank you so much for giving us part of your day. I'll see you next year, if not before. Thank you.