 All right, so today for our special topics IOT course we have a special guest Matthew Miller is here. He's one of the leaders in the Fedora open source space So he's here to tell us all about open source and you know how it works the benefits, you know what you can do to get involved hopefully and You know wherever else he wants to take it, you know, so I've told him that you guys are all very Participative and you're going to ask lots of questions. So he's anticipating that I think we've built in some time for that So I really you know encourage you to really understand it's an important area moving forward I was going to continue to have a lot of value. I mean you use it every day in your projects You know, we're using it with Fedora on the Raspberry Pi and hopefully in moving forward in the future You guys will take advantage of it as well and whatever you do whether it be professional work whether it be fun obvious stuff and hopefully you become Participants in this this open-source movement. So with that Matthew, thank you very much and welcome Hi, thank you very much. I'm glad to be here excited about this As everybody knows it's weird times right now, so I'm stuck at home my family here I've got two teenage daughters It's okay. We've got we've got enough space for everybody to be separate, but Those daughters are going a little bit crazy with everything and particularly my high school aged one we so We I was she was asking me about what I'm what I'm doing here during all this You know suddenly interested about my job all of a sudden because she's kind of you know seeing me in the house Or she's normally at school and I was talking about doing this course And she got very excited about it. My plan was to do this basically just a conversation from my notes but He got very excited and took those notes and made a whole slideshow from them So I'm going to present from the slides she made from my notes So that's going to be kind of fun because I don't actually know the exact content of all these slides because we just Finish this up a little bit before now which It's going to be exciting I think it's a good thing. She they kind of sent her home with Enrichment activities rather than actual academics because nobody expected to have a pandemic going on And so the school system is not quite ready for it. So she feels like the school work, which doesn't count is not He wants to put a lot of her time into so she's been doing a lot of Minecraft Which which is fine, but I was glad she got excited about this because it it helps us for this and It's actually kind of educational. I think maybe she learned something But we'll see what happens as they go through the slides. So I'm going to try the slide share here See what happens Do we have slide sharing at this point? I Do not see anything yet Okay, let me let me try this a different way. It's okay. Got it. Okay, cool And then we'll go to present mode Okay Is that working properly still? It is. Ooh, look at that transition. That's wonderful. Okay. Yeah, so talk by me slides by Glennevere Miller That's my daughter. I'm gonna talk a little bit about the history of open source I'm gonna talk about myself talk a little bit about the Dara project and some other open source projects Then talk a little bit about how all of this can help you personally and then we'll do some questions But please feel free to interrupt me for questions at any time I like I said was planning a conversation here and still them slides or not. So There we go. All right brief history of open source. So a long long time ago in the 80s We start out with Richard Stallman at MIT and at the time in the original early days of Software and computers there wasn't really much of an idea of who owned all the software There was just computers and hackers building things on it and so on but as you know Things got from the early hacker days into actually being you know an industry That kind of changed and things become more regulated it copyright started coming into it and personal computers and people started selling software and So a lot of the people from that early hacker collaborative culture started feeling like this idea of the software belong So some company isn't how they wanted the world to be so Richard Stallman and some other people started this idea of the GNU project, which is a terrible pond name But basically the idea of we can build up this operating system thing that you know is is out there We can build up a whole computer operating system and all the software we need in this sharing collaborative way so Kind of started this movement in the 80s, and it was kind of a quixotic thing and They but a lot of important software was built there text editors compilers all those kind of things We started the free software foundation, which is an organization basically dedicated to this idea of Sharing software and came up with this pretty clever license called the GNU GPL general public license which uses copyright to give the idea of You can take the software you can use it, but you have to but if you make any modifications share those modifications with other people So it basically is a license which says If you want to use this software The and if you want to modify the software you can have all these freedoms, but the basic rule is you want to Collaborate and share those freedoms with everybody else So this was cool and a lot of hacker people started working on this kind of thing but it was mostly constrained to the hacker world because it generally ran on Proprietary Unix systems. It wasn't necessarily something that would run on your home computer and things like that's at least not in the early days and It kind of kind of stayed in the academic and hacker culture rather than getting out into the world One of the problems with that is that it wouldn't run on, you know an individual computer that a normal human being could have at home So by the time I got to the 90s Something awesome happened and that is a student in Finland, Linus Torvalds. This is stuff I hope I'm going quickly because I think you probably know all of this stuff, but it's important background Was working on a home project using the Minix operating system Which was a little small version of Unix created for academic and learning use People used it in their courses in the university to figure out how to make an operating system he started not with with that code but with the ideas from that and started making something to run on his PC he had at home just so he would have the ability to do that and I Kind of a stroke of good luck and fortune like this was right when the internet was first starting to really take off And he took this and posted it on the internet and then was quickly convinced that this The GPL sharing license was the right way to do this and because of the the timing of all this it really took off and Other people started contributing to it and is snowballed into this thing that we know today is the Linux operating system that is The operating system that is the most common and everywhere in the world and you know this class everybody in it's hacking on it and doing things So pretty familiar with that but This this is kind of the missing piece this kernel of an operating system Plus the GNU utilities and then a bunch of other things like the X window system and other libraries BSD things from around the world kind of all came together to make a functional operating system And in a lot of ways this and but the internet kind of became the explosion of open source as a successful thing because we had a whole operating system that you could actually put on your own computer and at the same time as People were working on you know building up in the the research project internet into the big commercial everywhere utility internet we have today it turned out that Linux was the Was a great operating system for building all the servers that meet were needed to make this go and like the proprietary Unixes were too slow in moving and weren't were too expensive for their little startup companies that were making all this happen So Linux and the internet really rose together and of course the internet enables the collaboration that makes Linux happen So it was it was just really perfectly timed for all this to happen Let me let me pause there. Does anybody have any questions about all that history? Is it is it is something everybody knows? I don't have any questions. I'm good. Okay. Just just check in. I think that's basic basic knowledge So fast forward to you know kind of kind of the 90s here, so In the early 90s mid 90s Linux was starting to really take off as a server server operating system But it was still kind of kind of a fringe thing Meanwhile, there was a whole thing called the browser wars where there was Netscape navigator and then Microsoft introduced Internet Explorer and There was a whole thing with Microsoft getting sued over being monopolistic over that all sorts of stuff happened and In the midst of this a guy named Eric Raymond Wrote this essay called the Cathedral and the Bazaar which is kind of about software development models about this idea of Whether you build software, you know from an elaborate plan in a central organization Or whether it works better or if you have a bunch of people who are kind of collaborating on their own different Different interests that kind of build something together like a grand bazaar that actually can ultimately get bigger and better and so some of the people who at Mozilla at a Netscape company read this and Decided that this was the way forward to kind of the solution to the browser wars in one way and then they decided to open Open source Netscape navigator and that later became Mozilla and Firefox And that was just a huge It's a watershed moment for the idea of open source and free software and the idea that something that had been You this really popular very instrumental consumer software that open source was good for that to really kind of shifted shifted sort of the narrative of things and made It kind of set into motion how I think the world has gone from that. It's kind of a interesting thing It turns out that Eric Raymond is kind of a horrible person with some Lately racist beliefs. We didn't know that at the time. It's still a good essay, but Yeah, people are fallible. You could be careful with your heroes, I guess but This was an important essay and an important and important thing in the word. Yeah Firefox Mozilla here So this going open source Really again, this meshed well with the Internet and the idea of the Internet as a collaborative place and sharing and something that belongs to us as people back In the 90s before the Internet took off They were a bunch of different services in America online was not not an internet provider, but a thing you would dial up into and it was a walled garden of Applications that you know they you would pay America online to have your application there and you could have a forum on this thing and There were a lot of these different services and each one thought they were going to be the you know Center of the universe the arbiter of people's you know consumption of online content and None of those succeeded, but this open collaborative sharing Internet really did and took off underneath it And a lot of that kind of fits with this idea of open source and building the software in the same way There's probably another topic on that about how In the world now a Facebook and Google and all the big Internet Social media companies kind of dominating our experience of the Internet whether Who won in the end to there, but for a time at least we had this very idealistic Open Internet built on open source and running in open source infrastructure and with you know users at the end running open source so That was kind of neat time and I think that it's still it's still here It's still very important to how we as people Own our content have at you know privacy and security Because of open source as concept in the way these things are built All right. Yeah, this is who I work for a disclaimer red hat But this this is pretty interesting as well because so red hat is a company that makes a lot of software now but Linux infrastructure software and the first thing that they made was Red Hat Linux so when now now it's read at Enterprise Linux But in in the 90s they had a thing called Red Hat Linux which you could go to a big box store Microcenter wherever and you could buy a CD with Red Hat Linux on it but it turned out that that is not a very good way to make a lot of money and They were kind of you know business model They were making more money from t-shirts than from actually selling the software. I believe at least at least somewhere along those lines I don't know if that's actually true, but but it certainly felt that way and So so that wasn't wasn't working out and so they decided to make a pivot in early 2000s and decided to go completely for the enterprise and to make this as software that would replace Unix proprietary Unix Solaris IRX digital Unix AI acts those kind of things that were owned by big companies in in the data center and to really go after that market and so This has succeeded remarkably well up until Recently Red Hat was bought by IBM for 34 billion dollars right says here on the slide even And it's just an amazing Amazing success story in selling services around open source software. So this isn't meant to be a plug for my employer it's just a Great example of the idea that Open source and all this sharing and actually you know making money in a profit can can fit together actually quite successfully If you can find the right model to go around that So actually I'll talk a little bit about those models a little bit a little bit further on But obviously on this Red Hat being such a success in open source and making so much money Kind of showed people that this is something that it doesn't isn't just for hobbyists Although hobbyists are important to it and still are but this is something that people take seriously, you know for the enterprise as well And as we as we get forward today Linus Torvalds the guy who invented the Linux kernel also made a source control management system called get Which is basically Something to help It's designed in a distributed fashion to help with that collaboration for open source So there were version control software before but the previous version control software was generally aimed at models where There was one central version of that and the people who you know would control it control the central repository Which works fine for this cathedral style development, but is not so great for open source distributed model So get wasn't the first piece of software to work that way but it obviously is the most successful and became dominant and Get hub is a company that's built a and now they're owned by Microsoft a company that built new tools that Provide kind of a central repository, but also enable sharing and and forking and cloning and you can see from the graph here that has gone, you know exponential growth and is Everywhere and the the interesting thing about this is sometime between The 90s when we were hearing things like open source is cancer and its communism and whatever Open source has actually become just the default when you start with software You pretty much put it under on github and you pick an open source license So somewhere along the line without even noticing open source kind of one. It's it's the default There's not really any question should I open source this anymore? But it's how should I open source this and how should I build a model around it? and We're actually even getting to the point where You know have several new generations of people it just seems so much that it's the default that people are thinking Why do we even need these crazy open source licenses with all these rules? Isn't just sharing the thing? It turns out it's not those licenses are very important And if you I think there's going to be some interesting lessons to be learned for all the people who think that We can get away with not having a license We can talk about that some more if you like But picking a good license for your project is very important Don't write your own license because it's hard to get all the legal nuances, right? And we already have several hundred of them pick one that fits open source definition and Use that for your project basically you've got the GPL style licenses which enforce sharing and BSD MIT style licenses which are more open and don't have that you need to share back laws those tend to be preferred by companies who want to be able to Make products without having to carefully follow all these licensing terms If you do work on a project under a license like that It's still socially right to do the sharing back But in any case the license is actually very important because it is the glue under which all of this infrastructure works It's kind of the legal framework for it and without a legal framework things are going to fall apart at some point So yeah, it's still important even in these days, but it is It is the default everywhere as well All right, that that that's the end of my brief history of open source Any any questions about that? I Think just living through it gives you a much different perspective You know and I came from the proprietary world So I didn't see a lot of the open source side finally in the proprietary world Transitioned over the open source world. We weren't a very good share either. We would just take the ones with the the BSD life use Abuse never give back, you know, and I think the company that I did this with probably is doing the same thing still to this day But overall, I mean the benefits were incredible and I mean just living through it I you know the history is it's always fun to to receive this because I don't really remember it because I didn't Wasn't exposed to a lot of it. So thank you. Yeah And I think it's it's true There still are a lot of companies that you know just take things under BSD license or under GPL license and careful situations and don't contribute back but There are a lot of benefits to companies in doing that sharing back Which is the same benefits that come to individuals, which is we share the burden of all this work Where that where that software is important to you, but it's not really a differentiator for your business Then it makes so much more sense to have that as something we all work together and collaborate on Because you then don't need to have a whole project and team around it yourself You can put some amount of effort into it and then we all work together to make it better and kind of The rising tide lifts all the boats I guess and you know, we still see You know some people who are selfish and people who are bad actors, but it has really come to be you know We can expect, you know, even you know, Facebook Google Microsoft Open source is still is the default for those companies now too because these benefits are so there All right, here's the talking about myself part and we're gonna we're gonna start I won't make this make this too long But I think it's some of its relevant to IOT. So that's that's the connection here This is an Apple too. It was the computer that I first learned to do anything on I grew up fairly poor didn't have money for a computer at home but my my elementary school when I was in fourth grade every classroom had two computers that were in the hallway outside that classroom and you could sign up for time to use them and So the Apple too Was not a powerful machine. It had 48 K of Ram like K kilobytes and Yeah, as my daughter noted here on the slide It didn't have lowercase letters because it that would have been like way too sophisticated It just had uppercase letters. There were some like aftermarket hacks You could do to make it provide lowercase But there wasn't even a caps lock key because caps were all it was so this device was in the hallway there and I became intrigued with it and so This is the slides you picked here. Yeah, this is what a computer game looked like for for this computer But actually there were actually graphics as well and it had a really interesting graphics card where it was like You could either do low resolution, which was basically each each letter cell here 40 letters wide by 20 letters or less than that 20 letters down something like that And you could use those to make low resolution blocky graphics or you could do a high-resolution graphics mode and high-resolution meant I think 280 by 192 or something like that very very low and This machine was made by Steve Wozniak one of the founders of Apple Steve Jobs is the Steve that you probably know about as the Apple marketing genius, but Wozniak was the hardware genius and This is This computer was available became so widespread and so cheap because he was so good at using so few Chips to make things work with really clever hardware hacks and the high-resolution graphics in this are Incredibly like I'm trying to remember if it had six colors it had White and black and then an orange and a green and a blue and a purple But because of the way it worked The orange and the green can only be on odd numbered pixels and the blue and the red so Because of the cost-saving measures to make the hardware be very efficient and affordable the graphics were The very very strange, but to me this is actually an amazing advantage Because I as a fourth grader could look at this and I could say I could make a game like that and I This is called tranquility base. I encourage you to look up YouTube videos how this game looks You can see the the color graphics thing. I'm talking about But yeah, and so next to this computer There was a stack of books that was learned to program was like six different kind of thin books But going different levels of learning basic and another awesome thing about this machine Is that if you put a if you put a floppy disk in it and boot it up it would start running the software on that floppy disk It didn't have a hard drive of course because I think those were were things that existed But they weighed like you know 500 pounds and lived in the data center But it also had on it on its ROM it's built-in memory a version of basic built into it So if you would boot up this computer with nothing in it It would actually come to a prompt that was the basic programming language prompt It basically booted up to a tell me what to do and then these books Were instructions for how to tell the computer what to do So I actually started coming in an hour early to school The janitor would let me in and I would start you know taught myself to program with these books and and you know I was the idea of making some of these games like this and like the Oregon Trail and Things and you know I never really made any great games But I was able to make some games and press my friends and really kind of had The fun of it and and the thing was the games that I could make Were almost on the level of the professional games that people could make so I could look at this And I'd be like I can do something with computers and today When you know my daughter playing Minecraft looks at you know making a computer game I I've I've done some things where I've gone to elementary schools and taught me a scratch Got some basic programming language things and one of the universal problems I see that people have is that you kids look at this and they're like okay. That's cool How do I make fortnight and you know they or they look at you these other games that literally cost Millions of dollars of time and effort and graphics assets and you know composers and Rendering and all these things and it those things are not attainable to a kid Like maybe you could go through a career and become somebody who does one little part of making some sort of game like that But it's not a thing you could make so that's one of the reasons I am so excited about internet of things in the small hacker sense Arduino and all these kind of things and you know your raspberry pi Because you can look at these things and you can say okay. I understand how I can make this You know make a sensor that makes you know the lights go on or off. I can make a musical instrument I can make something that you know Sends messages to my sister these are things that you can look at this device and figure out how to do it so I'm very excited about internet of things as an important thing for bringing the next generation of You know human beings who are interested in controlling and making computers Do something that they want to do rather than just being Consumers of products consumers of media people who play games, but can't imagine that they can make those games So IOT I think is going to be fundamental to that I'm excited that everybody in this class is you probably think this is true as well, or you wouldn't be here So that's kind of how I got started with with computers in general All right, so another thing that that happened to me as I eventually did get a PC at home And I wanted to learn programming that was a little bit beyond you know the basic again the PC came with something called GW basic it was fine And but I wanted to learn a little bit more but the problem was a C compiler to do real programming was expensive like hundreds of dollars for a C compiler and That really that kind of put that out of reach to me. It was kind of something I would again I was a geeky kid. I'd go to the library. I'd read bite magazine. It was a very very very well done magazine for computer professionals and I would kind of imagine having access to all these things But it seemed out of reach to me until somebody at my church actually gave me of some a stack of floppy disks was something on it called DJ GPP DJ actually works at Red Hat now. It's awesome But this is a version of that GNU free software foundation compiler From back back in the first slides that was made to run on MS-DOS on the computer, you know The PC computer that I had and so this was a suite of command-line tools that would let me write programs in C For free without anybody charging and this came under that, you know new general public license So this is my first exposure to that and kind of the advantages of that the accessibility that provided computing to me and This idea of you know, but nobody's making money for this. They're making the world a better place So that was pretty cool I never became a great C programmer from this but just having that accessible of making some little utilities and toys and Some games that definitely crashed the computer because memory management turns out to be hard There's a reason people use higher level languages than C But I had a lot of fun and learned a lot from that Okay, and so that helped launch my career into free soft into software stuff I helped build an ISP with one of my friends we this is a screenshot of it I designed this web page people. So it's probably good. I didn't end up a web designer in my career The ISP is long gone But we had started doing this building out on Windows Windows NT because this was you know the That that was the thing I knew as a consumer product at the time but we were having problems with it crashing all the time it wasn't flexible and so on and I Read a little bit about Linux and then I remembered, you know this free compiler that I used earlier And I thought ah, this is kind of in the same vein of that so we rebuilt this ISP with Linux and the mid late 90s by this pint and Rebuild it all with this Linux operating system and I kind of got involved in that and Again, I learned this Through the community of you know, I didn't have any classes about this or anything nobody did at that time I learned this you know from people on the internet and kind of started getting involved talking to people and chatting got involved in the community around First Slackware Linux and then Red Hat Linux that was was the first distribution used for this ISP And then from that I ended up getting a job at Boston University and At Boston University, this is around this is down in 1999 At the time Red Hat I saw a study that showed that They did a comparison of the security of different Linux distributions And Red Hat Linux happened to be the most secure because they put it on a network and it took 15 minutes before somebody had broken into that system Which is to say they weren't very secure at all So I worked for the central IT department and I was doing systems administration for Solaris and IRX proprietary Unix systems But I noticed our security team was spending a lot of time going around telling the different the Different departments and so on that they this Linux server that they've stood up under their desk Had to be shut down because it wasn't and it wasn't secure somebody had broken into it yet again and so I was thinking about this and Thinking about you know the advantages that Linux had brought to me and I saw that these departments were really You know they're trying to solve their problems. They couldn't afford another Solaris machine They couldn't or even even in those times the things they were trying to do the people they were talking to on the internet We're using Linux to do it So I made a pitch that we could since this is open source I could take this take Red Hat Linux and I could tailor it for the university So I made it so that it was much more secure There was no Account called printer with the password of printer those kind of things that like people people hadn't thought some with the Basics about what problems might arise so we looked at all those problems and kind of tightened down the security added SSH to it for secure connection between machines and Added a connection to our central file server fensal accounts and made this version of a Linux operating system that was available to To the campus and basically told people Instead of the security team instead of telling them you can't run Linux They said hey if you want to run Linux, please run this one because this Linux distribution is made for Boston University And so this was this was fun. It was a big success and I worked on that for a couple of years And it was kind of neat to see How that again the ability to tailor the open source software to what we needed for the university made it made it possible to Do things that we certainly couldn't have done with other operating systems And we were able to do it, you know with our own resources with no cost in the university besides What turned out to be considerable time for me and five or six other people, but I think time will spend During that time. Oh, sir. Good Matthew I guess, you know, how how long to break in on your version versus the original 15 minutes. Yeah. Oh, that's an excellent question We had one incident during the eight years of running that That I am aware of of somebody breaking into a Boston University Linux system And that was due to a misconfiguration which wasn't in the original setup. So we did a good job. I Guess so yeah, no, thanks excellent question So as part of this I had said earlier that there's the big advantages in making sure that you give back so we based our thing on Red Hat Linux and later on the Fedora Linux distribution and on CentOS and We ended up to make those security changes. We changed. I think about a hundred different packages we made alterations to you and Every alteration we made was expensive for us because our small team every time there was an update to that software Or a new version came out. We needed to make sure we would you know backport and reapply that alteration so I Got involved with the Fedora project and helped try to bring some of those security changes and other just convenience things that we needed to The upstream project. I don't know if everybody's familiar with this concept of upstream and downstream. It's open source terminology That's second nature to me But you know software flows from the upstream into downstream and products and so on upstream you go to the source and so That's what I did with a lot of these changes we were making and so some of the things like The configuration where when you're using your system and you type sudo to get access to root Rather than logging into root separately all the time was one of the things we did for security and be Linux and I helped get that into Fedora And there's another another thing where if you try and remove packages that if you remove them Your system won't boot it tells you to please don't do that you are shooting yourself in the foot we got some of those changes in because as That was things we learned as trying to support this Reducing our own support costs was was not letting our users shoot themselves in the foot so easily You certainly can reconfigure it if you really really want to do that But by default it protects the system and so we got that change into Into the package management in fedora and that's in rel now as well other other things like that so Through that I got involved in the Fedora project and kind of help sort of met the community and started to get you know The changes we needed for Boston University into the upstream basically from a selfish point of view so that The next time that software was updated our changes were already there and we didn't have to do the work But also from that our changes ended up benefiting a lot of other people So somehow in between after all that I ended up becoming the Fedora project leader I got involved in in the project there I worked at Harvard for a little bit and then went to work at Red Hat on Fedora's cloud initiative and started kind of looking at the project and When the roll up and up I applied for it and got it this is a job where I kind of tried to help keep the whole project organized and I ended up doing a lot of calls like this with a lot of different people a lot of talking a lot of listening to people and a lot of writing persuasive essays about how I think things should be because This project is not structured as a top-down people do what I say project but as a community again that bizarre approach where people are doing their own things they're interested in and My role is to try and help keep everybody coordinated working nicely together and keep the strategy all aligned together Yeah, so that's the that's the end of the about me section There anybody have any questions about that? Okay, I hope that's because I provided you all the interesting information there is enough that I'm not that I'm boring So I'll talk a little bit about the Fedora project itself and how that works so Fedora I talked a little bit about upstreams Fedora serves as the upstream for the Red Hat Enterprise Linux product that Red Hat sells so Fedora is a community project Red Hat invests a lot into it, but The majority of people who are working on Fedora actually don't work for Red Hat They are working on something that they care about and are part of the community because They like the collaboration and because Fedora enables them to work together to get that collaboration and get the thing they work on to more people Our mission basically is to make our community able to make these solutions for users It's kind of a snake eating its own tail mission But we kind of as a project want to focus on our community of operating system builders So I think that's a lot of people in this class and the Raspberry Pi operating system that you're working on And I I know there's some places you're stuck with that I'm See what I can do to help you a little bit more but that thing you're doing is really right in line with our mission and We are actually we're learning some from your difficulties in doing that So I'm sorry about the difficulties But thank thank you for exposing them for us because that really is something we want to do more and more I want to see if my daughter made slides for these specific things. No, she didn't So Some of the other things we put together Fedora workstation. That's the system for laptops. That's our main You know thing that most people consume Fedora as we all have Fedora core OS, which is a operating system. That's tailored for containers and Fedora IoT probably with some interest to this class But in a lot of ways Fedora IoT is not necessarily tailored for the hacker space it's a little more aimed at the edge computing case because a lot of the People we have interested in this are some very big companies that are actually deploying millions of these devices around the world and They're so they're they're interested in this are a little bit different than somebody building a home hacker case and One of the things I'm trying to balance as a user as a Fedora product leader Those users and the hackers and the kids doing their things you know The next generation of fourth graders hacking on making something interesting I really would like them to have a welcome place in this And that kind of is hard to balance in some kinds with the you know millions of devices enterprise use case that The IoT project you know addition is going towards a little more So we're still working on figuring that out And so I think there's maybe room for something that sits next to Fedora IoT like the Raspberry Pi oriented thing You're working on That can actually be a solution that's separate from the Fedora IoT thing in Fedora So those top ones are kind of our big things, but we also have a lot of smaller things one of them The Fedora Python classroom lab, which basically is a system you boot up and it has a bunch of Python programming tools right there for you This is actually used by some other professors to teach Python programming So that that's kind of anything Fedora robotics suite. I don't think has a lot of users But those users for a couple years running actually one World Cup robot soccer running Fedora on their robots So that that's pretty awesome The final one is Fedora security lab. I see it's missing its bee here We'll have to fix that that's kind of our answer to Kali Linux for doing the security testing penetration kind of thing So kind of trying to solve all There there are people in the Fedora community who are interested in all of these different use cases and The job of the project overall is to try our best to enable the people who are working on those use cases to deliver their solutions Okay, so that's that's the district with kind of the results of the project This is some pictures of some of the people in the Fedora project community around the world from our flock to Fedora Conference and from other Fedora events. There are about 4,000 people who contribute to Fedora in some way or another Every year although a lot of those contributions are just small One-off patches here. They're a wiki edit a document improvement So there's kind of a long tail of small contributions, which are very important and then maybe two to three hundred core people who are involved every week and really are the Drivers of a lot of the a lot of the work But there's kind of an important balance because we need those small contributions and that wider community is important as well I like to talk about Fedora as the community We just say Fedora and Fedora Linux or Fedora workstation one of those things as the product rather than Fedora as an operating system. This is maybe a pet pet Project of mine to kind of get that focus changed because to me the community aspect is actually more important than the technology aspect Because the technology is going to be great when the community is great And when we can work together and do all the things that we're trying to do the community that the awesome technology will follow and all of those things that people do are actually My daughter was going through this list and she's like there's a lot of things here. Yes, that's exactly it So it's you know, a lot of people think programming hacking is mostly what's needed in Fedora It actually turns out that on websites design You know QA obviously there's a more technical thing, but you know documentation blogging about what's going on communications translating things all of this stuff is I Don't know 80% of the work is is these kind of things and so there's so much to do in an open source project with it I think probably because you're in this class everyone here is more technically oriented But there's a lot of room for people no matter what your interests are to get involved in an open source project And even within different, you know interests in a technical area There's a lot of different ways to go. It isn't just kind of what you think of as I'm hacking on an operating system work Any questions about Fedora before I go on to the next section Yeah, Matthew just one thing I guess would just is it how do you define the boundaries? You know of what Fedora is responsible for versus other open source projects Is there a crisp definition is it just the OS are there, you know utilities things that go along with it? I mean so where's the boundary I guess so compilers and they part they're part of Fedora as well I mean so how do you delineate, you know Fedora versus other open source projects? Yeah, that's a great question. Let me go back to the mission slide back here So we are definitely focused on building the platform layer and we're really ultimately an integration project So something like a compiler Getting your comp the compiler available to users through Fedora is part of Fedora's remit But making a new compiler or even, you know fixing bugs in a compiler Certainly adding new features to the compiler is something that if that's your interest We would send you to the project for that compiler itself And then Fedora helps take those things that exist in the open source world and integrate them together Into a whole that's consumable by people in a easy solution sort of way in general Things yeah, you think things that make that solution Consumable as an OS that that's what Fedora is about and things that are you know tools on top of that Might be important in Fedora, but they generally exist as their own project outside on the upstream from Fedora. Is that Covering for exactly but you look at something like say Fedora workstation But that's mostly integration a lot of other things that come along with it, right? So it's just it's a little different when you look at that one versus say core OS And right now Fedora IoT is probably It's a lot more constrained workstation right more or less and so as a result that's a little different as well Right so it's it's it's very interesting and I think you probably walk some fine lines here to figure out what goes where and What really you want to be responsible for I would think yeah, absolutely It's often often a little bit fuzzy and it comes down to who who the people are involved in the different projects So for example for on the desktop through a workstation the upstream project for the graphical environment is the GNOME project and Red Hat is separately from Fedora a big investment investor in the GNOME project And then there's a Red Hat desktop team which works on Fedora workstation and also works in the GNOME upstream So some of the lines get blurred there a little bit whether they're doing their work on Fedora or on the GNOME upstream Again, we try and do things upstream as much as possible But sometimes there are things that make sense at the integration level that are you know Things that are going to land in Fedora first and then other people may figure out how to use them and We often a lot of that stuff so some of the work that's being done around pipe wire for example, which is a video and Audio streaming solution for the desktop That stuff work is being done at Red Hat is being worked on in Fedora, but it's also going to benefit everybody else It's not really a Fedora specific thing Yeah, and in core OS in a lot of ways you know That's integrating pod man and container tools and OS tree and a bunch of things that you know Are other own little upstream projects that kind of work together and core OS is where they're all pulled together in a functional solution Probably hear more about those tools from Langdon next week as well Excellent. Thank you. Hey, I Also wanted to go over some of the other open source projects is my my daughter's selection of important ones Krita is a painting program that's open source And this is actually a really interesting one because I believe this is more popular in Windows and Mac Who then it is on the Linux desktop which makes sense because Linux desktop is a couple percent of the market and those are Much larger, but this is a really excellent completely open source painting and drawing tool that their Rivals or exceeds the commercial equivalence. It's really cool scratch is a you know open source programming language for kids and dark table is photography photo raw editing software So these things are all open source and again, you know, we have a whole ecosystem around that and again these are Yeah, these started out as a hobby kind of things or scratch start out as an academic project and they kind of grew Yeah, I think these projects are software I'm disagreeing with my daughter's title here I'll have to give her some correction there. They are software, but they're not any of there's there's the application kind of software That is fun for people and an example. I talked about making games on the Apple, too This is about 20 years old now, but my wife played a game on Windows called Jezz ball and When we switched our home systems to Linux, she was like, this is terrible We don't have this game on my on my system. So I was like, alright, you won So I made this game you can find this on my website icebreaker here And it involves, you know penguins that you're trying to trap onto icebergs And so I made this I made this basically for my wife, but I put it online I You know put it under a canoe general public license I put it there and a couple months later someone came to me and said here here are some patches I noticed your game only runs on Linux, but here are some patches that will make this run on Windows So we had it actually took those patches and this person in Italy sent me these things to make it run on Windows So I started cross-compiling it for Windows and we actually found my 20 year old executable download there And my daughter installed that and ran it on her current Windows system Which she has for games by the way, don't don't get into Whether she should be running Linux will work on her on that But anyways the Windows version ran on there and it was just really cool to me that this thing that I had Written as this project, you know basically from my own house Kind of caught on and somebody made it work on Windows and a huge amount of downloads for Windows over the years And it's been pretty popular So that's a kind of a neat example of something I did that was just gonna for my own fun that ended up You know, I don't know if benefiting is really the right word because it's a waste of time But wasting a bunch of people's time all around the world and increasing their entertainment So that's kind of neat You can still find this on my website if you're if you're so inspired And then of course, there's a lot of all the infrastructure software This kind of goes to the question about you know, what stuff is in Fedora? This is some of the software that's open source that we integrate together into Fedora And I think actually the important thing here is this middle point of Again open source being the default Back like I was saying when I was young a compiler was something that was hard to get inaccessible You pay a lot of money for it these days in these new programming languages when they come out They're open source to begin with it's just the default like if you're gonna make a programming language Of course, it's an open source programming language. Why would something be you know hidden behind a proprietary owned language? That's never gonna take off So again open source is really really one in a fundamental way for how how we do development And that's just kind of amazing to see as somebody who's lived lived through it And I guess we also have boring applications, you know office software Financial software and so on and VS code which is a programmers editor And of course the super interesting thing here is this is from Microsoft long You know seen by some people as the enemy Microsoft is now all in on open source and even dot-net programming language went open source so Open source it it won that that's really the point of the slide. I think And then this kind of goes to the product model so I talked about you know red hat being a multi-billion dollar company with the product model that they have They're kind of several different ways to organize. How are you going to make money off of open source if you can't If it is something you can get for free. How do you profit off of it? Red Hat does this by having a subscription and when you have the subscription you get a bunch of other again I'm not going to make this a red hat sales pitch But the idea is you subscribe to the software and you get security updates support documentation a whole bunch of you know and relationships with the company that Provide the value Some of the other open-source software works on a model where where they do consulting that that's Really common for I don't have the Group poll people here that should be here. There's a lot of web software that basically their model is We'll do custom consulting for getting this to work on your system. It's open source, but we'll Excuse me. We'll help make a solution for you Other other times there is a Product that's an enterprise product and then an open source community addition Which doesn't get support maybe get speeches a little bit later and doesn't if the development happens in the enterprise and the community Edition is kind of a free trial version I'm happy that red hat generally doesn't do that We use a model where we work with the up streams and the up and the development happens in the open in the upstream But that model with the community addition model is a perfectly viable open source way to do things and again It it as open sources of the default people are figuring out different ways to make this work Hey, any questions about those things? All right. That's fine. Let's go into the next section Which is the how does this help you? So yeah, the first thing is of course, you know kind of talking about you can you can hack on something That's fun and this is actually my daughter wrote this slide of kind of we're talking about this and We're talking about making games and things and one of the things that she pointed out It's kind of what I was talking about making my game work for Windows When you work in a collaborative manner like this, you don't have to do everything yourself You can if you don't have skills in a certain area You can find people who can do the graphics find people maybe who are better programmers than you are or different Things and work on this together and kind of you can make a project that you care about Come into reality in a way that otherwise, you know You might have to have VC funding and a lot of spare time or you know Be independently wealthy in order to actually get something off the ground with open source You could just start hacking on it and do what Linus Torvalds Didn't say hey, I've got this project. It's not very great, but it you know gets my system working Maybe you're interested. Maybe you can help and then you end up, you know building the whole Linux operating system around that So yeah me can make your projects come real become real that that that's important Of course if you're working on something and you come to a problem in it You can contribute that fix back and so if if you have something that is Bugging you so to speak and and you have a solution for it You can actually go to the project work with people and get that address even if you don't have the solution yourself You could make proposals or even talk about it and you can interact with the community that does that and get these problems fixed And because of the sharing model you're benefiting a lot of other people and you don't have to it's not just to fix for yourself Everybody else gets the benefit of that and in doing this when you interact with people In that way the next time somebody else has a problem you may be there likely to share you know their fixes with you and it's a nice Virtuous circle basically Yeah, and in doing this you make these community and connections and talk with people and you know Get make friends around the world Who put put it plus Lee will help you in your career because careers are made out of connections and knowing people and connections around the world And this is an easy way to get involved in things that have a huge amount of impact There are a lot of these projects that you know every company in the world uses have actually a very small contributor base and getting involved in that contributor base Will will get you involved in things that are vital to so many different companies and build up your skills and build up those connections that Will will benefit you in your life in your career. So the connections are good From the selfish career point of view and also it's awesome to make friends around the world and talk with people and chat In fact during this coronavirus lockdown times fedora tomorrow night. We're having an open hour social hour You're all invited to it follow me on Twitter and find find this Where we just kind of come and hang out and just you know be friends together because it's not just all about the business connections But it's about the friendships and things we make as well in these projects So that's a real real benefit in both in practical and Impractical but important ways And especially the skills that you learn in doing these connections are things that you can't really learn in a class You can't learn on your own the connections and skills of talking to other people in the world collaboration How to Convince other people that your idea has merit how to work with people even though they don't think your idea has merit when you really think it does how to And just some of the tools as well that are used for sharing in collaboration like experience is the only way to learn those things and Again from a very pragmatic point of view when you go to a company and they can see that you've been successful in operating in an open source project like that That is makes it so much easier to be confident in making a hire because what you've done is Visible and we can see that you're not just that your your code is good But that you can collaborate and work with other people so open source participation is Super valuable for that as well Yeah, and other things that my daughter has wisely written on this slide You can learn from seeing other people. There's a lot of mentorship opportunity, you know Opportunities to be mentored in open source and in learning learning more skills learning how to work together with the project kind of things And being part of the community also lets you if you're interested in one area A lot of like I said earlier most of these communities need help in so many different areas You can find things that are kind of adjacent to what you've been working on and learn more about those things and pick up new skills You weren't even expecting to so yeah open source. It's good for you There that's the end of my slides All right, well, thank you Matthew and this is the point where I said The students would be very interactive and ask lots of questions. So let's see. Let's see if they live up to this. So Who's gonna go first? Who's gonna break this? Let's see. So there's my Video. Yeah, sure I like to see people That sorry now my things like freezing You can see me though Yeah, yeah, it's good. Okay, but um Yeah, so I was just curious because it's like on Windows you have the they released that Windows subsystem for Linux Where it like allows you to go into like their marketplace and you can download like say like yeah, like a fedora I think it's called like fedora remix or like Ubuntu or whatever So I have that I have the Ubuntu one like it's like I was just curious like if there's like the dip between like This just having that like as like that separate little kernel within Windows versus like just having the whole operating system of fedora You know like just downloaded separately onto your computer Yeah, so especially with the first version of Windows subsystem for Linux That's actually running under the Windows kernel with the Linux emulation layer and one of the Goals team people tells me that that actually doesn't do math, right? So some of the floating point gives you the wrong answers. So There's things like that to be wary of The WSL to actually runs a proper Linux kernel. So it's closer to that But you'll still get better performance And Things like you're interacting with the graphics layer and so on if you're doing graphics programming or running graphical applications They're obviously going to work better with the native operating system I think there's also a non technical answer to this which is I also get a lot of people with their I'm running a Mac. It just works. It's got some kind of Unix like thing I've got a perfectly good command line. Why would I waste my time running, you know fedora on my system when I've got a Mac that works And to me this is about this This is an operating system that belongs to us and by us. I don't mean just you know, I don't mean red hat for sure I don't mean just fedora. This is like Linux This is the operating system of the people like this is something that we made And we could be proud of and you can be part of that and something that we really own and control And it isn't just somebody else's decisions over what can happen and where it can go So I think it is worthwhile to have for that because this is the community operating system and we are the community It is the operating system of the people and so I think there's just a lot of value in that in Kind of what that gives you as a human being and I know that sounds dramatic But I really think it's true because it's something that's ours rather than something that's belongs to distant corporations Which despite the law are not actually people No, that yeah that makes sense I So like I I don't know like I've heard like with like steam marketplace with like that the the gaming marketplace Like it's like they were trying to move everything over to more like a Linux based thing because they're like we're afraid of like the Licensing that Windows has with Windows being more so like the prominent gaming OS So yeah, I don't know that was but that it is interesting Yeah, I think As the mainstream OS is I mean they look enviously at smartphones and how locks down the app stores are in general on smartphones And how they're getting a cut of every app that sold on those and You know the support burden is lower. I think Both both Apple and Microsoft would like their consumer desktop to be more like a phone and I think that's that that's a trend and we're going to see more of and I hope that I Think that more people will be running interested in running Linux who the people who are interested in having a computer That is theirs that they have control of that they can make content on that they can make changes to And that isn't just a phone And that's a small segment of people most people don't actually want a computer like that For most people a computer is a horrible nightmare They have to put up with in order to get to Facebook and the application You know the communications and sharing applications that they want But for some of us, I think that's a good point That they want But for some of us, I think we really do want a computer and I think for for those of us, you know having a Linux operating system that is Something that belongs to us is something you can you can really hack on is always going to be important So I think I'm optimistic for our share of the desktop. I'm not going to say your Linux on the desktop quite yet But I think we'll get there Other questions Matthew I Yeah, I'm interested in the sort of release Approach for Fedora. How is it that you come to the decision that a new release has to be put out there? Yeah, so Fedora goes on a six month cadence. So which is fairly fast And part of this is to be honest, we inherited that from Red Hat Linux from the 90s That's how often they put out minor releases and we started kind of following that But it turns out to be a pretty good cadence and it kind of fits with a lot of the major software that we integrate So I talked about it being integration project So the GNOME software puts out a release twice a year And actually Python, the programming language, recently realigned their cycle So that they're aligned with the Python releases come out to align with Fedora releases on the same kind of cadence So we get a new release kind of has a new batch of upstream software every six months And we actually in the last couple of years have really solidified that we're doing basically a early May, late October release every year So that's our six month windows and we really try to hit basically the same time every year So we have a predictable cadence because that helps those projects that depend on us to get the software to users in a consistent way They know what to expect and then users know what to expect as well In doing that we actually have a pretty strict set of release criteria that our QA team puts together that says this must work, this must work And we've got a process where once we have a beta release we go through those blockers and we make sure that each one of those is resolved So if we do not have those blockers resolved by the release time we will slip But the last couple of years we haven't had to do that at all because we've had pretty good discipline in making sure that things work on the schedule I know there are some other distros arch being the trendy one that go for what's called a rolling release model That is they don't have a major version, they just put updates into the stream as the OS comes out And as somebody working on an operating system I see the appeal of that because all of this QA and formalization around making a release is a lot of work But I think that the benefits actually accrue more to the developers than to the users and I think a release-based cycle lets people digest change in a regular way So there was a thread on Reddit about, hey rolling release users has this ever been a problem for you? And everybody says no and then the caveats are I read the release notes every day before I apply updates or sometimes my system doesn't boot But for me that's not really a problem, those kind of things So with the rolling release you kind of are at the mercy of the upstreams for when you're going to get new versions of things If you basically make a bargain, if I want to get security updates I'm going to apply whatever is coming down the pipe whenever it shows up Whereas with our release model we try to make it so that big changes happen on those release boundaries While still moving fast enough that new software is available to people quickly Just sort of follow on that Matthew, I guess my question would be and again I think I understand but it would be good to hear from you I mean the transition to downstream, so downstream CentOS is the first stop I guess once we cut a Fedora release I guess at what point does CentOS get cut? I mean what's the back porting because things are going to change upstream So it would be interesting I think to hear that kind of model as well is what we do So this is very specific to the Red Hat and Fedora and CentOS relationship And actually they're making some changes to all this with the new thing called CentOS Stream So I'm going to distinguish between CentOS Linux which is the classic CentOS and CentOS Stream which is the new thing So the basic process is every few years and Red Hat is committed actually to making this every three years So we'll see if they're able to stick to this. I think so. I work with the people who are working on the schedule and making it But the idea is three years after REL8 came out, REL9 is going to come out and so on And the way it's worked historically is at some point Red Hat takes a Fedora release after it's been released And branches that internally makes an internal version of it and changes some of the build flags to some of the more enterprise friendly settings maybe targeting more server hardware than Fedora generally targets And then builds a REL candidate internal bootstrap from that And then builds that up into eventually an alpha and a beta release of REL And then sometime along there they generally rebase to an updated Fedora release So basically two Fedora releases go into feeding the beginning of a REL And then after that, so this is the problem now that CentOS Stream exists to solve Because so we've got that great collaboration and the new development for a new REL release happens It goes into Fedora until that branch off happens Then after the branch off, all the development for REL basically happens internally And so things that happen, even though REL continues to make roughly six months updates to their 0.1 releases All of that development happens internally and nobody knows what's going to happen as a REL customer until that 0.1 release comes out And if you need a fix, and of course Red Hat is very conservative about what goes into those point releases But they do get new software and new features Container technology went into a point release of REL because some of these industry technologies happen faster than even a three-year release can happen So sometimes big things go into these point releases And as it has existed, that has not really been done in a community transparent way It's basically done as an internal product way So it goes from Fedora to REL and then the traditional CentOS Linux actually happens all the way down the bottom of the waterfall Where they take the REL source packages and rebuild them into the traditional CentOS distribution So one of the problems we have with that right now are there becomes a pretty big disconnect between the open source world I mean the community, it's still open source, of course the source is available under open source licenses But the community world, and that's in Fedora, and when we get to something like Red Hat Linux, Red Hat Linux 7.6 or so There's really been six releases of this that have been developed internally that haven't really had community participation in them So CentOS Stream actually is going to happen so that we'll have in our public repositories the branches that are going to become the next REL point release REL 8.3 or whatever will actually live in a repository and that will be the CentOS Stream release And released as a project that you can consume and provide feedback on Although unlike Fedora, an important distinction is the CentOS Stream is sort of a transparent, moderated operating system where Red Hat makes the decisions about what's going in So if you have a bug fix that goes into CentOS Stream, a Red Hat engineer is going to review and decide if that is something that goes in that minor release Or if it's something they don't want or something that maybe it should go back into Fedora first and come in through that way Whereas in Fedora, anybody, you don't have to work for Red Hat, you can be the owner of a package You can be the owner of a fundamental core package and make decisions as a community member about that So that's kind of the distinction there. It's a confusing model, but it seems to work okay for us, I guess Did that answer your question? Did I confuse these even more? No, it answered my question, thank you And again, I think it shows the value of CentOS. It's just that much closer to REL. I mean a lot of people take it as still free. You can go get it. It's an open source project So CentOS versus Fedora is an interesting choice, right? I mean, I guess if you want the edge or do you want something that's more stable, I guess would be the delineation We try to stay away from bleeding edge and just stay to the leading edge. We try to make sure we do have high quality, so it is just leading and the blood ends up somewhere else So I guess several differentiators. One of them is that more frequent update cycle, which generally means newer software But another one is community involvement and ownership. So in traditional CentOS, if you find a bug and that bug also exists in REL CentOS says that's not a bug. That's not a CentOS bug. It's doing what we're bug for bug compatible with REL. So this is not a bug And then you go and try and convince Red Hat that it's important to them and they say do you have a customer support case and then so on So CentOS Stream is hopefully will smooth that interaction a little bit, but it is still not your ownership kind of thing So in Fedora, again, it's community owned. So Fedora is if you want to really participate in this thing of our operating system, Fedora is the place to be involved Thank you. Student question. Sean, usually asks a lot of stuff. Sean, any questions for you? I have a question. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Hi. My name is Ryan. So I know that you mentioned that you originally got into computers based on the at your school they had the Apple II computers and you designed a game on it. And I know you also mentioned that you created the video game for your wife because she was missing out on that game on your old computers. I was just wondering if you're still actively doing that as a hobby making video games or if that was just kind of a couple. No, I actually I actually have do have one in development that I started last Christmas and then worked on a little bit more this next Christmas. So that's about a spare time I have do on this hobby. There's a game called Oxygen Not Included, which is one of the there's a lot of these games. It's kind of in the more fortress kind of genre of things. But it's it's whole thing is you've got some little little people who are crash landed on the inside of an asteroid somehow and you've got to mine your way out and make sure you're providing the oxygen and other things they need to survive. And I was playing that and one of the things it's it's got a it's got an interesting physics simulation in it. But one of the things that kept bugging me is there's no conservation of matter like things keep getting created and destroyed all the time. So I was like, what if I make a game that's kind of like this, but everything is you tries to follow, you know, real just the best best I can, you know, the physics of if you have a chemical reaction, you're going to get the proper amount of elements back out of that chemical reaction. If there's a fire, the result will be the things that would be the result of a fire. If you breathe some oxygen, the carbon dioxide is going to come out in the way carbon dioxide does plants are going to grow by taking carbon out of the air. I don't know. So I'm working on that a little bit. I got distracted. My daughter will laugh at me a little bit because I also decided that instead of having square tiles for this, I was going to use hex tiles. And it turns out programming hex tiles is just a whole another, you know, maze of complication that I probably could have the physics part that I was really interested in actually going if I hadn't been working so much and making my hex engine work. But that's that's the fun of hobby programming. I'm not on any deadlines for this. But yeah, maybe in a couple of years, I'll have something to show off here. I don't even have anything online for this yet because it's really not at an interesting stage. Awesome. Thank you. That was an awesome question. I guess just I guess just a little follow up question on that is, would you ever want to do that game development professionally? Or would you want to just keep it as kind of like a side hobby? I think I'll keep it as a side hobby because I am too easily distracted and also, you know, like I said, the gaming industry is a harsh place to work. And I think in order to make a really there are some small indie games that are successful, but most of them, you know, require a lot of a lot of late high pressure nights working on a team that's all under pressure. And I don't I don't think I'm interested in that in this point of my life. Maybe if I were 20 years younger, I can handle it. But I think it's a hobby thing for me at this point. That makes sense. Thank you. All I can think of in game development is Kurt Schilling. That was a very disaster. Right. Yeah, exactly. That's not money, not success, you know, it's a yeah. So you talked about doing or working with IoT as your job, but have you decked out your home in like a home security system that's connected to IoT or something like that? Or is this mostly work? I've got this thing here rockbox sitting right next to me here, but I basically got it booting up and haven't had a chance to do things. Part of my problem here is my house was built in around 1890 and it has like five different generations of wiring. And I can't bring myself to do smart light bulbs that then have a switch that I have tape over on the wall or something. So I want to replace the switches. And this is one of those things where the perfect is the enemy of the good because I haven't gotten anywhere at all because I feel depressed about my wiring being bad and not being able to change the switches that I want to. So incrementally over time, I'm going to get the wiring up to modern state so I can put smart devices in there to get those things. Yeah, right. I have a question. Yeah. Although my name is a rafter. I was just wondering, right? You said that it's possible to get your projects to get like people to contribute to your project. Well, how do you go about that? Yeah, so I think first it helps to have something that you're passionate about or interested in, right? So, you know, I put this, my game that I put up and got contributions back, I made a little website for it. And so although I said I made it just for myself and my wife, you know, I did put the interest into making a little site for it and kind of make it presentable. I think that was before GitHub was a thing. I think putting on GitHub and making a nice read me, making a contributor guide, having a code of conduct, making sure your license is there, that can help. And then I think start showing it off and talking about it in places where people are interested in that kind of thing. You know, social media is huge. Depending on what your project is, there's probably some forum where there are people talking about exactly the thing you're interested in. And I think once you have the interest, the contributions will generally come to it. But also if you can kind of show off, you know, problems you are solving with your code, it's harder when it's an earlier state. So, you know, my game when I got somebody doing that major work on it was already functional. It wasn't just a here's a toy thing. So it helps that it people are going to do things that solve a problem of their own. And that's how people started getting into Linux, you know, when Linus put up his, you know, thing that worked on his computer, other people took it and made it work on their computer. And then they had, you know, somebody had a hard drive and they wanted to work on this hard drive. So they wrote the driver for that to work. And so people solve their own problems and start feeding it back. So I think that if you don't have something where people can can solve their own problems that that's going to be harder. It also helps to, you know, have some of the basic things like a well commented code, which is always hard to discipline. But make make it easy to understand what you're doing so that other people can easily look at it and say, oh, I get what's happening here. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you. It can also help if the thing you are working on, you know, is is something that fits into a wider project where if you have, you know, maybe it's a maybe it's a tool that could be useful in, you know, Fedora IoT or in useful in an IoT thing, and you can kind of get it integrated into a project that has other people working on something next to what you're doing so that there's already a community of people around the general problem set. And then this is kind of that thing on that slide my daughter made about, you know, people doing interesting things next to what you're doing. You can be one of the interesting things next to what other people care about and they think then they'll see your thing there and, you know, maybe end up helping out with that as well. All right, thank you. Last chance. I'll take that as a new number of questions. I'm going to stop the recording and just say thank you, Matthew is very enjoyable today. So appreciate it and