 Thanks for joining us on another episode of 420grams. We had come for the launch of the Hero I-League. 13th season of the Hero I-League is upon us. I think that's what the guy who was heading the stage said. Starting on the 30th of November, we saw members of each and every team that will be taking part in the I-League come on stage and tell us a bit about themselves and of course the campaign and what to look forward. I'm joined on 420grams by partner in crime Siddhanthani and also joined by Meheer Basabda who of course has been following Indian football very closely and we also said that we haven't done so much of homework so it doesn't feel like we're talking nonsense here. Meheer has come to do a bit of homework. He's putting too much responsibility in me. I've never done homework in my life. I'd like to tell you one more thing. If you look at the stage, our challenge is that until this stage is dismantled, hopefully we'll finish the show. So guys, I-League starting and more than who's the favourite, who's not the favourite, I think we have to start from this point of view. From a club's perspective, your approach will be based on money. Because it's a business. Money is not free. And it's a big money. It's a budget of 2 crores, 3 crores. So then how do you approach that? Do you say, I'm going to stick with my 2-3 crores budget? Or do I say, look, I'm not going anywhere? So I'll put a 1.5-1 CR type of budget and just remember when that window opens, then I'll start picking it up. I think here, logic, apart from East Bengal and Mohan Bagan, most clubs I assume would kind of take this step. We've seen in the last few years itself like clubs like Sri Long and I saw already cut budgets despite I-League being called the top tier. So now that the second division is officially being called, then what's the motivation for them to go on? We've already seen an announcement. First of all, so many clubs, right? I think Aizahul have already said that they'll be scaling down further. The question actually is, how much more do you want to bleed? I don't think it matters to them whether they're bleeding 1.5 crores or 2 crores. It's just that they want to put in more money. And for the fact that at least for the next 5 years, you're not going to be in the top division. You're not even going to get a shot at the top division. Despite knowing that, how many people do they have patience to carry on? I think that is the main thing. So I don't think they are... I mean, losing money obviously is sad. But more than that, it's just that we don't want to continue. Is there any point in continuing in this whole exercise? We'll do it for 1 or 2 years. Whether we'll see change in ownerships, whether we'll see the clubs shutting down themselves, that is the main thing for the next 5 years. For me at least. Sorry, sorry. Is the lighting going to make a difference? So you want to change some settings or keep going? Keep going. Cut. So, I mean, as per the money, I think it will also be a blessing in this, guys. Because where we're saying that we're not getting to play more than our Indian boys. If you have to cut the budget, you can sit outside and fill in your Indian boys. And feed the Indian boys. The quality of your league might go down. In the long run, is your boy becoming one or not? I suppose so, man. I mean, if... Like the second division, it happened. Like Meer was saying. So, at least everyone knows now exactly what the scene is. If you have to move forward, what do you have to do? What do you have to put in now? You have to do this in year 1, this in year 2, this in year 3. And then hope that eventually as they're saying, there will be a system of promotion, relegation and there will be inroads for some clubs to make it to the top tier. Other clubs will go down. And hopefully overall, I mean, at least that's what we are being told, that overall structure will be created where 30, 40 clubs will be playing competitive football on a Pan India level, which is a positive. The other positives, it's not to do with player creation as much, but was the coming in of a new broadcast partner, which at least opens up alternative or some source of revenue through advertising, right? Before this, because of the sort of convoluted ownership structure with star sports having a stake in the league, that channel was sort of closed. Or all the money that was coming in was coming in through the same party. Now, at least with DeSport, they will be selling ads and the clubs will get a share of whatever comes in. And going forward, if it's successful, because we know that there are fans, there is an audience for this league, right? Even other clubs have a following. The games are watched at least as much as the ISL games. So there is scope to sort of bring in and create if not sustain, football clubs don't make money anywhere in the world. So it's not going to be like people will keep bleeding or losing money, you don't get into, like we keep saying this, no one, you're not getting into football to make money. You make money and then you do football because you like to do football, I think. I would slightly differ from your point where you say that because budgets come, then maybe Indian players will get more opportunities. What we have seen generally is that budgets come, then our quality of foreigners come and they don't give Indian players a chance. For example, in Mumbai, when we used to go for matches at Cooperage, the joke was that in Air India, just to fill that foreign player quota we would go to Nala Sopar and bring Africans. So it doesn't matter if you are a footballer or not, as long as you are a foreigner that's what the perception that the teams want to create. And I'm afraid that maybe there are no teams in this trap where just to show that our team has foreigners now open up substandard players and not give the Indian players a chance. But this is another small positive change that I have seen or we have seen you might not agree but I don't think that is the attitude anymore with more and more Indian coaches getting into the system club owners also looking at it as you know what they are, what lower league clubs are trying to do is capitalise on a transfer market and hope that some of their players do well and then move on to a bigger club so that they get something out of the investment that they have put into that player. So there is some sort of a model being created to incentivise clubs to get younger players, Indian players into the scene. That's actually a very nice point. So I was talking to Ranjit Bajaj once in a while and we were talking to my friends and so then he made some good points. One I asked him from an owner's perspective who is investing his money what will you do for 3 or 4 years that you will bring the budget down that you will operate on the same budget. So he said look it depends on as a club what your ambition is once that window opens up. Is your ambition to go into the ISL? Then you can't suddenly do that let's say I am spending 4 years on a 1.5 crore budget and then I want to go to the ISL where the budget is required of 20 CR so how do I handle this money? So you have to be operating on a certain amount of money to know how to operate it how to use it, where to use it so you don't use it to bad use or whatever or you misuse it in whichever way possible The other thing he is saying, player creation he is saying now the focus should be on academies. So he said Jackson, I forgot the other 2 names Anwar Ali and a couple of more who have gone into the ISL He said I have sold them to clubs directly ISL clubs and he has made it. A crore which is not bad You are making 1 CR He said courtesy of that 1 CR My one batch in an academy can run for 2 years and that then is a self-sustainable model. I think that is the way forward If you come down in the division I think you should focus on making your talent and sell your talent ahead so that you can return the money back to your club so that you are not bleeding money then you sort of found a full circle and you know that in turn helps you move ahead That is a great point I think because we have seen we have seen that for ready-made players 1-off has been transferred but academy products as such have not come to India we obsess and we romanticize how European clubs do it We sit here and talk about Sunderland but no one wants that kind of an effort or patience and I think whatever people say about Ranjit whatever opinion they hold about him but one thing that he has done magnificently is the academy setup how many players he has taken out in the last few years so no one can take that away from him but again it all comes down to intention and patience like Ranjit's whatever you say if we talk about him it is a passion that keeps him alive Do the other people have same level of passion and patience would they want to invest that crores of rupees year on year on something that is not sexy at all youth development where you won't get media coverage where people won't talk about you on twitter So I am going to take off on a solid tangent for like 2 minutes Left Now it is the 21st of November the JNU students demonstration was based on the idea that education should not be A privatised and B commoditised Now this is something that is very relevant when it comes to football education and what we are trying to create in terms of footballers etc etc all this academy stuff right there is no argument to be made that the commodification of the sport is not complete it is all these guys who we see flaunting the jerseys and stuff for various clubs they are essentially being treated as commodities right traded in and out bought sold whatever whatever I think whatever system is created is extremely important to also remember that we are talking about like very young children that are coming into the system and we are not like why should clubs exist why should clubs continue to survive, thrive, grow whatever it is that they are doing because it is a sort of community effort to create some kind of a feel there some you know why are their fans because they support identify with something right the more you go into this unregulated academy system with no links to directly to clubs you open it up to all kinds of exploitation which and I am really not in favor of how things are done in Europe because the bigger the club the more the money the more the scope there is to exploit kids from all over like you are saying Africans from Nala Subara or Africans from or Nigerians from Nigeria or wherever kids are coming from these days right we have seen kids at various academies from all over I mean as it is within the size of this country where are you taking these kids from and what is going on with them we should focus a little on this I think if the club structure was not solid everyone started getting into the academy so this could be the problem I think and that should be avoided the second thing is since you talked about ownership and this conversation is essentially about how the money is going to go around we are talking to Sunando earlier who is the CEO of the league and he said an interesting thing that the iLeague is as much an AIFF property as the ISL now to my mind and I may be wrong here it's a question to both of you the ISL is an FSDL property now right so it's a problematic thing I mean the AIFF no longer essentially they are saying that they are no longer going to retain any control or the FSDL and AIFF will be almost synonymous with each other is that what is coming across it seems like to me I think I mean if we want to paraphrase Sunando they should have said that iLeague is as much a product of AIFF as ISL is of IMG Reliance or Indian football is of IMG Reliance right now but that whole ownership thing of Indian football has been a dicey topic for the last 10 years football has spoken about the contract and how it's basically sold Indian football to a private entity see my thing is that as long as the product delivers it shouldn't matter who is running as long as it's done in a fair transparent manner it shouldn't matter if Reliance is running or AIFF is running or some random XYZ person we've always spoken about a league being independent from a federation we've spoken about that already a lot of times and that's how it should be whether there should be a private entity that's a totally different thing but at least and for decades now we've seen that AIFF has not been able to do anything with the iLeague or ISL or whatever form of leagues we've had so to be fair to ISL if they are trying to do something let's give them 10 years let's not judge in 5 years and say if they are taking ownership of Indian football that's a problematic thing but again maybe it's not maybe it's not I'm formally of the opinion that the national team is improving whether it's because of FSDL or not it's a totally different debate but it's happening right now at a time when the ownership of Indian football is an issue so I think for a larger context this whole ownership of the league whether AIFF owns iLeague or FSDL owns iLeague that's it's just that whether it is ethically again we'll go back to the episode that you guys have had already about FSDL's involvement in Indian football it goes back to an ethical issue more than that whether you should surrender your rights whether you can sell your logo a national team logo to a private entity that's the problem but as long as I think league ownership and conduct of the league goes I don't think we can complain I mean ISL is whatever their faults are but ISL is at least done in a professional way for a reason everyone aspires to be in ISL so I guess wow let me show you it's not easy look at our dear friend he's playing music look yeah so anyway so these guys are on but we guys our discussion is on as well I just said that decision making can be a bit more collaborative or transparent the point that you made also ownership fair enough however it's done but when you're making key decisions in terms of how things are going to be structured or how things are going to move forward that process needs to be a little more inclusive is all the money you've earned you have to take your pound of flesh I'm tired of talking I mean how long we've been talking about this and that but at least the good thing is there's a little structure when the national team is getting better so yeah there are two cameras here okay national team is getting better it was getting better now that's a different debate for a different day fair enough this debate is on the iLeague guys I think we have two teams from Mfile this time the Mfile Dabi is what we're going to be seeing I think that is the one game I'm really looking forward to Bhai you were in Manipur you spent a considerable amount of time with a friend of the show Mr. Renri Singh Sir, what is the situation between Trao and Neroka Nehroka by becoming the first club managed to get a solid fan base behind themselves Trao is essentially the full form of Trao is Tidim Road Athletic Union it's one of several hundreds of local clubs in the area in Mfile it's a small club with small but passionate following like you're talking about Dhanjeet Bajaj again it's like mostly driven by a family backing it and a lot of local players so you know in fact the Trao kid who was on here talking he talked about how the club that he supports is the club that he grew up playing with so it's the same with these guys and you'll have a lot of local players coming into the scene so their families will come their villages will come I think it will be it's always great to have Dabi games man 30,000 people will come to watch it will be under lights normally at 7pm especially in winter season it's like midnight there because of also the time zone I mean not the time zone but the positioning here you'll have finally something for people to go out and do in the evening so really looking forward to it by anything you're looking forward to not from a structural system that the guys are playing that you have done any stories look forward to as far as the iLeague is concerned I'm looking forward to 2 stories actually one is how East Bengal and Mohan Bagan react now for years they've been trying desperately they have pumped in so much I'm sure they have pumped in more than 100-200 grows right now to win the iLeague title and couldn't win man till the last day and couldn't win I want to see how much they go this time to get that title and whether they will actually jump the ship to ISL before leaving the iLeague title would they want to go down in the club that never won the iLeague I'm really excited to see how East Bengal and because of that how Mohan Bagan react to this whole scenario and then of course I mean I think one story that we have all fallen in love with is very Al Kashmir story so I mean again we've seen that they've had great debut season but again how much they can repeat we've seen that clubs struggle to repeat the same performance in the second season Kashmir have had a very good pre-season they've had a troubled pre-season as well David Robertson is saying that it's a very close knit group family group but I'm waiting for December 12 when the first match will be there in Srinagar 15-20 thousand will come easily how the crowd reacts due to the political situation there how the players react I'm really looking forward to that bit as well Mahir Basabdha Siddhanthani guys thank you so much for joining us remember the iLeague we here on 420 are making a promise that we will cover the iLeague in whichever way possible and we'll likely do shows every week or every two weeks and a podcast and a podcast yeah so that's it from us on this episode follow me let me show you what's the reach of iLeague who will win this time I don't know thank you so much for watching and I'll see you next week bye