 Hello, welcome to Out of the Comfort Zone. I'm your host, Arby Kelly, and I'm really excited for our guest today. She's actually a repeat guest, and we'll get all to that, but first, our body language tip of the week. Now, our theme today is all about networking, and there's a tip that I use when I'm meeting someone new, even if they're a total stranger, to get them to walk across the room towards me and start a conversation with me. Even if they've never talked to me before. Now, usually I use a combination of tips, but one of the most important cues you can send is what's called an eyebrow flash. And the way an eyebrow flash works is as soon as you make eye contact with someone, just like that, just like I did just fairly, you send them a brief flash of your eyebrows. And this is something we normally only do to people we recognize, people we actually like. So when you do this, even to a total stranger or a new acquaintance, they can't help but feel like you really like them. And they just feel like they should come over and talk to you right then. So if you are struggling with networking, that is one tip I would advise you to practice. Now we don't have a book of the week today because our guest is an accomplished author, has multiple books, and you can find them on her website. Speaking of our guest, let's introduce Pam Chambers. Hi. Hi Pam, I'm so excited you came back. I know this is like. Thank you. Probably the billionth time you've been here on Think Tech, but it's the second time you've been my guest, and you're always fabulous. So thank you for coming. Thanks. So when I reached out to you, we were brainstorming like, what can we talk about? What should we cover? I did try to talk her into doing an etiquette session where we would bring in like tons of food and like practice and she could teach me etiquette, but that didn't work out. So we finally settled on networking. So Pam, why did you choose networking for our topic? There are so many networking events available here and people are encouraged to go to those and sometimes the company will buy a whole table for their employees to sit at that event and so now they're sitting with each other and they're happy to be in their comfort zone with each other and it ended up being kind of a waste of networking money and resources if you will. So I like to teach people tips on how to make that uncomfortable behavior easier for people. And that's something I've seen. That's something I even used to do myself. You know, we'd go to a networking event, you show up, you don't know anybody there or maybe you only know one or two people, so guess who you talk to? Those are one or two people and you never know what to say or who to talk to. Right. So what are some tips you would have or some guidelines you would give our viewers about how to handle networking? Okay, well the first thing is get there half an hour early. Some people think that 15 minutes is early enough, but it's amazing how quickly a room empties when an event is over. People just disappear. So if you want the most bang for your networking buck, you want to get there half an hour early and you want to look at the registration table, which will have all the name tags on it, and you want to set a direction for yourself. So you want to look, okay, oh, I'd love to meet him or I've heard of her or I saw her in PBN. Let's try to meet that person. So you set a direction for yourself instead of letting it just happen haphazardly. That's a good idea, because often we show up and we're like, okay, I'm here. I'm networking, now what? But if you have a strict goal, you know who to talk to, you have time to think of what to say. And this will sound a little bit odd, but I just wrote about it in my newsletter. When you get there early, go into the meeting room and own it. And walk around the meeting room, notice the art, notice the table settings, and find something that you can fix. Find a little boo-boo that you can make better. And then that gives you this feeling of that you made an improvement, you made a difference, and you own the room, and you belong there. I remember, Pam used to mentor me. She helped me figure a lot of things out. But that was one of the tips that you gave me about showing up early and maybe it's like straightening the tablecloth or maybe like fixing some chairs, but something to just feel a sense of ownership and belonging. And you don't make an announcement about it. The only people who will see you doing that might be the banquet staff members who won't care at all that you straightened the knife. But it gives you a sense of belonging. So then go back out to the registration table and choose three people that you might want to meet. And may I recommend who those might be? So the first one I like to recommend that people meet is the most important person in the room. Now, who is that? It might be you with your TV show. It might be the guest speaker. It might be you, the guest speaker. It might be the president of the organization. But if you could everywhere you went meet the most important person, imagine how your confidence would go up. Instead of avoiding them, you walk up to them. So that's person number one. Another person is someone who just sight alone you feel intimidated. Ooh, that's a good tip. Because mostly the impulse is to like run away. Right, but again, think how strong you'd get if you could walk up to somebody who secretly is a little bit daunting to you. Pretty soon, and this is happening for me, there's no one I'm afraid of now. I mean, I might be afraid of someone who looks truly dangerous. But I used to avoid beautiful women. Some men avoid bigger men. Some people avoid someone who's better, they advanced in their field. But I'll share the tip about why you are allowed to go up to these people. And then the third person is someone that you know you could learn from. Who could you, if you could befriend them and take them to coffee or lunch, who would you learn from? And that is one thing I did spot on when I met you. Because I actually showed up to the event where you were speaking just because I'd heard of you. And as you know, I approached you, walked up, and I was like, I think you're awesome, can we meet for lunch? And I can't tell you how many things I've learned from them. The rest is history. The rest is history. And history continues on. I do have one clarifying question for you, though. How do you know who is the most important person in the room? Oh, it's highly personal. So it would be for you have to answer that question yourself. Of all the people here, who's at the top in your mind? So if we were both to show up to a networking event, your most important person might not be my most important person. That's right. Or we might collide each other on the way to the same person. And then I like to tell the fact that someone I would want to meet is someone who knows how to charge billions of dollars for their speaking. But those people don't live in Hawaii, typically. They may travel through. Or they get contracted to fly in and speak here. Yeah, and then leave on their private jet. So that person is in Washington, DC, or Hollywood. So I might not find that person. So then I jokingly, but not so jokingly, say, now you get to meet the cutest person. Most important, someone who intimidates you now go up to someone cute. And you don't necessarily say that to them. I came to talk to you because you're cute. You're the cutest person in the room. Bad, bad, bad. But you've done some hard work there. And why not meet someone attractive? Or interesting, something fun. Someone who draws you. Now, it could be that while you're on your way to someone, someone else is on their way to you. So you wouldn't say, out of my way, I'm on a mission. You would say, well, this is the magic of networking. This is what networking is really about. I don't know what my fate will be at that event. So even as you're seeking out someone else, someone might be like, Pam's the most important here. I've got to talk to Pam. I've seen that happen, actually, where you're kind of like flooded with admirers. Well, thank you. You're welcome. Now, the thing about walking up to someone important, you might, I used to think, well, who the heck am I to walk up to that important personage and take up their time? And I would avoid it because I didn't think that I was, I hate to say this, but worthy. So I would avoid those people. And somehow, I realized something that changed my whole networking life. And that is, I don't have to be interesting. I need to be interested. Ah, I said that's something Dale Carnegie says. Yes, speak in terms of the other person's interest, be interested in them. So if I'm interested in you and I ask you open-ended questions that get you to talk about yourself. I'll think you're fabulous. Yeah, you'll think I'm really interesting and all I'm doing is asking you open-ended questions. And that's a really good trick because so many times people wonder what to say. Like, oh, I'm at a networking event. I need people to think I'm cool. I need people to think I'm powerful. So I'm going to brag about all of my latest accomplishments. Yeah, well, that's a turn off. I don't have to have accomplishments. I have to have interest in other people. And if I'm lucky and if they have social skills, they'll ask me something about myself. But I already know about me. I want to learn about them. That's a really powerful tip because it really makes networking easy. You don't have to remember. You don't have to have funny conversation starters. You don't have to have funny stories to tell. Those can come later. You just have to know how to ask people about themselves. Right, right, right. And I like to avoid yes and no questions because they tend to go nowhere. Are you a member of this organization? No. Yes. OK. You know, and then that's it. But if you say, how did you come to hear about this organization? Right. There's usually at least a story here. Right. There's a paragraph that you can glom onto. And then that will lead somewhere else. There's actually an interesting body language tip that helps when people give those short questions. Do you want to hear about it? Yeah. OK. So the trick is called the slow triple nod. And we found, the science of people did a study watching people in conversations. And they found that when person one asked a question and person two answered and person one nodded their head slowly three times, person two would talk three to four times longer and get more information. So if you're like me, I usually don't know what to say or I struggle finding a follow-up question. If you ask a question and they stop talking, they'll usually keep talking. And it's so convenient. That's good. I like that. Your biggest problem after all this fascination will be leaving them. Because they're now so comfortable and happy that they had someone interesting and interested to talk to. The way to leave is to ask to say it was lovely chatting with you, could we exchange business cards? And I have so many clients who struggle with getting out of the conversation. Right. Well, that's how to do it. So it might be a second handshake. But don't do it if you feel like you don't want future interaction with that person because that's just phony. It's ingenious. But if you are interested and you want to have a way to connect later, you would ask for a business card. And if we have time before the break, I can show you some ways to not receive. We have time. Let's go. So let's pretend that we're exchanging. And I'm going to do three things wrong when I receive your card. So it was lovely chatting with you. Could we exchange business cards? I love that. Here, let me dig through my purse. OK, found one. OK, good. Thank you so much. And ho-ho! Tucking it away. Tucking it away. OK, so I made three mistakes. The first one was I didn't look at your card. I didn't even look at it. That is so rude, especially when I'm the one who asked for it. So we must look at it. In Japan, they will study it, endlessly, seemingly. But here, we just need to look at it, glance to see if there's something on the back, and then we must say something about it. So I didn't look at it, and then I didn't say anything about it. So I need to say, this is a fascinating card. Look at all these expressions. So you've looked. You've commented. Right. And then I store it in a respectful place in my handbag. Or if I'm a man, I'll put it in my upper pocket. I will not store it below my waist. So, OK, if I don't carry a purse, are these like pockets here OK? Yes, because they're not below your waist. But this below the waist is truly a no-no. Like your pants pocket, where it gets crumbled up. Or back, where the big guys haul out there, George Costanza Wallet. You're too young to know who he was. But he was a guy with a thick wallet. And he would stuff things in there and then sit down. And he would actually be sideways. It was his wallet was so thick. But that's rude. And then the fourth mistake is some people will write on a person's business card in front of someone to remember something about that person. We're not supposed to write on people's business cards in front of anyone. I struggle with that. In private. Yes, loves animals. You could write something that will help you remember. But it defaces that piece of them. Interesting. That's something I actually disagree with you on. Because? Let's duke it out. Because I forget people. I forget why they gave me their card. I forget if I'm supposed to email them or call them or send them. But do that privately. But I forgot. Oh. Oh. So we're going to take some time to figure this out over the break. But we'll be right back. See you in a minute. Hi, my name is Bill Sharp, host of Asia and Review, coming to you from Honolulu, Hawaii, right here in the center of the Pacific Ocean. Asia and Review is the oldest of the 35 or so shows broadcast by Think Tech Hawaii. We've been in production since 2009. Our goal is to provide you, the viewer, with information, breaking information, about events in Asia. Asia being anything from Hawaii west of Pakistan, from the Russian Far East, South to Australia, and New Zealand. We hope to see you every Monday afternoon at 5 PM. Hey, aloha, Stan Energyman here on Think Tech Hawaii where community matters. This is a place to come to think about all things energy. We talk about energy for the grid, energy for vehicles, energy and transportation, energy and maritime, energy and aviation. We have all kinds of things on our show, but we always focus on hydrogen here in Hawaii. Because it's my favorite thing, that's what I like to do. But we talk about things that make a difference here in Hawaii, things that should be a big changer for Hawaii. And we hope that you'll join us every Friday at noon on Stan Energyman and take a look with us at new technologies and new thoughts on how we can get clean and green in Hawaii, aloha. I engage in a hearty battle of fisticuffs. Our noses were broken, like it was horrible. We haven't come to a decision. So we're just gonna move on. Okay, then. So the last thing I would do with that person with whom I would like to connect in the future is I would get them to agree that I can do something for them. So I would say, RB, you seemed interested in that article about business etiquette. May I email that to you tomorrow? And so you have an excuse to contact me and a way to help me. And a way to prove that I'm trustworthy. So the world is full of people who make promises that they don't keep. And they just are at the bottom of the barrel because of that. But if I get you to agree that I can do something and then I do it, my estimation in your eyes goes up. And it actually did. That's one of the reasons. She called me. You called me out of the blue to follow up with me on a detail. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is the first time someone who said they would call me actually called me. And I was boggled. And it actually freaked me out a little bit. And I was like, oh my gosh, what do I do now? I remember that conversation. Oh gosh. See, getting you to agree that I can do it is more powerful than me just doing it. I can be a nice person and do this because I think it would be helpful to you. But the fact that you said I could do it and then I do it makes it 10 times more powerful. Because I'm already agreeing that you can help me, that you're an expert. Right, right. And so when it comes down to it, maybe I'm looking for either a mentor or someone to come in and speak to my business, I already have acknowledged you as being able to help, as knowing more. That is a very good point. Even more important is the fact that you said I could do something and I did it because so many people don't. So that's an easy thing to do, email something. If you can remember it. If you can remember, write it on their business card. But it needs to be a promise because it's easy enough to keep so that you don't blow it. I once made too big a promise. I was going to send 10 articles and that was in the day of fax machines. You don't remember fax machines, but I said I would fax these 10 articles and it was just by the next day. It was too big a job. I just didn't want to do it. So I didn't do it. And then I saw that person again. And it's like, can't make eye contact? I couldn't approach her. I did not have the wherewithal to walk up and fess up on my sin. I just couldn't. So I had to avoid her the whole time. And I think that's something that plagues a lot of our viewers who network is, you're like, oh yeah, I'll totally follow up with you. Yeah, I'll shoot you an email and then you never do. And then the next time you see that person, it's just like shame, shame, shame. Right. And if you did that once, you've probably done it more than once. And now the room is full of people you don't want to approach. So just stay home. And what's the point of networking anyway? Right, if that's how you're gonna be. So I was telling that story once and a woman in the audience said that she had promised a bundle of travel brochures. She didn't do it. And when she saw the woman the next time, she said, how did you like those brochures I sent you? And the other person said, I love them. So now we have two liars who are pretending everything's okay. They both know that they're both lying. And that that relationship can go nowhere. So the moral of that story is make it easy, easy, easy, easy to keep, cause you only get one point. That makes sense. The universe does not care if this was hard for you to do. What they care about they is. That you did it. That you did it. That you kept your word. That makes sense. Now Pam, because I have you here, you're basically trapped with me for another like 11 minutes. Do you wanna talk about how you can remember the people you've meet and how you remember what they want or what they need? Cause I struggle with that. Okay, well, let me see. How do I do it? I may not always remember their name. That when I first meet someone, there's so much to take in that sometime their name goes right through my head. And I will say, forgive me. I was so taken by your outfit that your name went right through my head. Please remind me. That's such a nicer way of saying, I forgot who you are. What was your name again? Yeah. I'll try to make a word association now to help me remember, but mainly I wanna remember what I said I would do for them. That's for some reason not hard for me. So I'm afraid I can't really give you my secret recipe for that because I don't make that many promises. I mean, look, you're meeting three people. Three people that you had conversations with. That's three. Oh yeah, cause I'm used, the way I'm thinking of it is, okay, I go to the networking events. I collect all the business cards. I remember all the people. Well, yeah, okay, let's back up. Let's back up. If I meet three people and I have a five to seven conversation with each one of those three, I can remember. That makes sense. And if I build a strong relationship with even one of those people, that's better than having 50 cards that mean nothing to me. That makes, I've been going about this all wrong. I've been trying to meet as many people and have as many little conversations when it seems like the easiest way is just the most important, what was the most? Intimidating. Intimidating person. Someone you can learn from. Someone I can learn from. Or someone cute. Or someone cute, you know? Optional. But I mean, I've gone to events where I go back to my table and there are 50 cards in a haphazard stack at my place setting. And they mean nothing to me. And so what are you supposed to do with them? I don't know. It's not polite in Hawaii anyway to do a huge blanket email to everybody when you don't even remember who they were. Hi, so and so. I've forgotten you exist, but I've got your card. Could you remind me who you were? So we need to do something to be memorable so that when we do make that outreach for a coffee, lunch, or a conversation, that you say, Arby, this is Pam Chambers. I met you the other day at the networking event. And it was so easy to remember. I think we both do a good job of being memorable. Like you're always super stylish. You've got your hats. You are very distinctive. And most people assume I'm lesbian and I kind of stand out in the crowd with that. So that takes care of that. Well, and there's your helmet and your suits and your hair and your lipstick and your way of moving. You've branded yourself very well. Well, I think I learned from you, so. Thank you. Okay, let's see, what else? It doesn't have to be lunch. A lot of my younger clients, they say, well, I don't have a ton of money to take everyone to lunch that I wanna meet. Well, go to a coffee shop. We can all do that. And there's nothing wrong with building your meeting at, say, a 10 o'clock hour instead of noon. And saying, oh, here's a good one. I'd like to have half an hour of your time, if I may. And they'll say yes. And then at 25 minutes into that half hour, you are gonna be the one to say, I see that we have five minutes left. How should we best spend that time? And you've told me that before and I love it. I use it all the time, especially with my coaching clients because it's like, okay, it paid me for an hour. It's now been an hour and 25 minutes and they're still talking. So that is one cue that has actually saved my sanity more than once. Just, oh, I see our time is up. And integrity and your boundaries and their time. I mean, it's easy to go over time if everyone seems willing and interested, but some people don't know how to say, I'm... I've got to go. Like, there's something else. Right, so I see that we have five minutes left. How shall we best spend this time? It's flattering, it's still retaining the boundaries, but it's also kind. Yeah, and if it's meant to be that you spend more time together, you will. Some other day. Some other day, or like often if you just say, oh, I see we have five minutes left, would you like to schedule a follow up appointment? Or is there anything I can do to support you? Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good sales one. Good tip. And they might say, oh, no, no, no, no, no, I'm fine. And then if it's okay with both parties, then you might go a little more. But it's disarming to do that because most people take, take, take, take, take, they take as much as they can. As much as they think they can get away with. That makes sense, yeah. So, one of the things I also like to do, oh, I had this thought totally flood my brain. See, we were talking about networking. Okay, five minutes left, making another appointment. And, oh, let's see, it was right there. Oh, one of the ways to know if you have to leave, like if they've got something else, oh, there are a couple body language tips that go along with this. But I usually just like to say, what are you doing right after this? And that's a way for them to say, oh, I've got an urgent appointment in like two minutes. Or, oh, I'm driving all the way across town. Or, oh, I'm fighting traffic. Or, oh, nothing, I'm going all afternoon open. And so if you want to keep talking, you can say, me too. Or you can, if you don't want to keep talking, you can say, oh, well, I hope you have a great time. I'll just be on my way to this other thing to remind them that, yeah, I really do have to go. That's nice. I like that. I've noticed that women especially tend to struggle with getting out of conversations because we don't like saying no. Or we don't want to hurt someone's feelings. And so I really love your tip about saying, oh, we've just got five minutes left. Because it's not rude at all, but it's effective. Right. And then when you stand up to leave, don't look back to see, are they okay? Just stand up and go about your business because that is complete for now. And I've also found another tip that I advise my people to do is when they're ready to start packing up, maybe it's one minute left, is to actually physically grab their stuff and start to put it away. You can keep talking, but as you're putting your stuff away, pulling out your keys, whatever, that sends the message, I am about to stand up and walk out. And you can either walk out with me or stay here, but our meeting is just about over. Yes, we know what the packing up means. And how about the foot facing in the other direction? I'm so glad you read that. That was the body language tip I was gonna share. Because when you're ready to leave, your feet point away. Yes. So, all right, so viewers on camera, if I was getting ready to leave, my feet would point away in the other direction so I could get up and walk away. Hopefully they would go toward that door, not the corner. Right, because the door's over there. We're not gonna walk off the chair. We're gonna walk into the corner now. Right, watch their feet because their feet point away. Right, right, right. I've seen people point their feet away, but unless they're also hoisting their shoulder on their back, it might not mean what I'm willing to think it means. So we have to be good detectives. That makes sense. You always wanna look for the context. Right, right. But I have noticed, even if someone isn't getting ready to leave, if their feet are pointing away, usually they're thinking or wishing they could leave. The foot swivel facing the exit. Exactly. Let's see. There's also a ton of dining etiquette tips and lunch hosting tips that I would love to share at a future date, if you wish. The reason I didn't wanna have a bunch of food here is I don't know how we would do that. I don't know either, but I think we sure would have had a lot of pushback. Well, we can do place settings. That much we can do. We'll have to coordinate with the studio to see if we can make it happen, but I would love to have you. All right, and then hosting a business lunch, there are a thousand ways to make mistakes doing that. So we better have you back to talk about it. Dozens of tips on that. Okay, well. Well, we've got about 20 seconds left. Okay. How would you like to best spend our last 20 seconds? By saying that that is a lovely bracelet. Well, thank you. It was given to me by a very good friend, someone I admire very much. So thank you, Pam. It's really lovely, like super cute. I like it very much. Thank you. Thank you for coming, Pam. All right, viewers, I hope you enjoyed this presentation. Pam is fabulous, and you can find her at PamChambers.com. She has tons of books, tons of videos. She is awesome. Go check it out, and I will see you next week. Bye.