 So welcome everyone, I'm James Shulman from the American Council of Learned Societies and I'm gonna get us started because we have great speakers and I want to get give them plenty of time a few thoughts on the Commission on fostering and sustaining diverse digital scholarship that Last spring if any of you are in Denver anyone Denver for okay We got a few people so we had a great session with three of the members of this Commission Mary Emma Graham Meredith Evans and Maria Cotata talking about their collection building efforts and In a lot of some of the people on the Commission have built over time, you know amazing collection digital collections and they talked about that path and the collection building and then as one aspect of What this Commission is looking at? I wanted to thank any H and Mellon who both helped support this commission and I want to also think if anyone in the room has participated in one of 23 focus groups that we conducted as part of this Commission, so 23 separate groups because when we heard about when we talked to the people who led an earlier commission in 2004-5 That ACLS the cyber infrastructure for the humanities Project they felt like they didn't have enough time with enough community So we had 23 groups so for publishers for groups of librarians and archivists department chairs in English department chairs in history Clear fellows so all different groups So we were really trying to get cover the landscape that those focus groups one of the advantages of zoom is we have transcripts for everything those focus groups will be the sort of the backbone of of the Upcoming report and it's wonderful to have all that recorded So the report itself the substance is there We've we have a draft that we've been reviewing and talking with each of the 21 commissioners about Substances there, but the rhetorical Framing is is the next job to take all this material covering Digital work in a range of fields in every aspect of digital work from from soup to nuts and Try to make sure that it's talking to the right audiences in the right way So that's that's sort of the update part of the update on the report and I'm now going to talk Just briefly on one slide before turning it over my colleagues So this is a little bit of the outline. This is the outline These are all links so if if we wanted to let you in under the hood and see all crazy draft You could follow these links, so I got fix that before we submit this to CNI But and just to give you a sense of the structure of their of the the report of the of the commission So they're really three major sections one is the top line for those who are far from the text Rebalancing the relationship between higher education and various community outside communities outside the gates So It's highlighted in green because to some degree that's what one of our presenters Gabby Ventura is going to talk about today The second category is the role of institutions in the challenge of institutional change self-explanatory, but not easy to do And then a section a large section on infrastructures of various kinds and Carol is going to talk about that And so you see under infrastructures there are Seven or eight different topics. I think eight different topics and one of them is human resources pipelines and labor and To some degree and whatever degree He is inclined Professor Ken Ramsey is going to touch on that so those the reason those two are highlighting green is because two of our commissioners are here today Let me just say a word about About our speakers so Carol Mandel many of you know Dean emerita the libraries at NYU and really Someone that I've worked with for a long time, but I can't think enough for how hard she works on this project Just unbelievable amount of so the energy that went into running a major research university library We're supposed to have like a quarter of her time or something like that and we have like 110 percent of that energy So I'm very grateful for that and then two of our 21 commissioners are here So one is Gabby Ventura from University of Houston who also has more energy than than any 27 people I know so she runs Arte Publico the the preeminent Spanish publishing and and bilingual publishing house And then she also runs the You know US Latina digital humane's project, which is not a project It's a cluster of projects based at the University of Houston and she's a full-time professor And she teaches and she writes and she does more than that And so we're just delighted that she could make time to come up here Kenton Ramsey professor camps Kenton Ramsey now at Howard University as of like three weeks ago Before that at the University of Texas in Antonio has written a book and on the geographies of African-American short fiction and I Hesitate to tell you about his book because it's sort of the most reductive Manifestation of an incredibly active mind and digital practice. He he did his PhD at University of Kansas working with Mary Emma Graham and working on the history of black writing and He lives and breathes Digital scholarship and and literary scholarship. He also teaches a course called the JZ course which Locates the the artists in the history of autobiography and semi-autobiographical work, and it's probably a lot more fun than the course I talk taught on autobiography which was like Russo and St. Augustine So so I'd rather take Kenton's class any day. Anyway thrilled to have these three speakers And I'm going to turn it over to Kenton to start us off. All right. Good morning I'm gonna share first off I'm really happy to be here today to kind of report on what's going on with the commission is very diverse And I have a few prepared notes that I want to talk about in all of this as even as James mentioned my interest in JZ I got a incredible reminder of how I started this journey around 2009 working in the actual spaces of libraries I visited the Brooklyn Museum to see the exhibit and once again. I was inspired Particularly seeing so many black faces in the Brooklyn library and how can these spaces? How is it more than just books going on? So I want to kind of report on a little bit of this as a member of a CLS is commissioned on fostering diverse scholarship I've gained valuable insight into the challenges and opportunities in digital scholarship today I'll share those some personal stories of mine to highlight our discussions and how some of these recommendations have been made I want to stress the critical role of libraries and librarians in digital humanities research specifically in data work my Experiences enriched by libraries and interactions with spaces have shaped my development as a scholar So through a brief personal timeline I aim to illustrate the depth of our discussions and kind of talk about how networks infrastructure and labor are a part of all of this so from 2009 to 2010 in my undergraduate years delving into metadata catalogs at the Schumberg and Harlem and Arben Avenue Research Library in Atlanta highlighted the pivotal role of librarians and librarians Libraries and librarians in shaping my journey as an African-American lit scholar These experiences emphasize the importance of the actual space of brick-and-mortar library as a young black 20-year-old Didn't these early encounters showcased that libraries transcend more than just book repositories? So my key takeaway from this first part was how do we expand access to spaces for students? How can we ensure successful programs continue and serve as models for others most importantly? How do we foster inclusivity to make diverse groups feel comfortable in libraries? These questions guide our path forward emphasizing the integral role of librarians and libraries in shaping the future of digital humanities research and I should also point out Excuse me that I met my undergrad I mean my graduate advisor at the Schumberg as we were talking about digital scholarship again These were a networks that weren't necessarily formal, but how have I benefited from them is what I'd like to talk about Next I want to talk about My time in graduate school and my graduate studies at the University of Kansas library and rising Brian Rosenblum's mentor mentorship in DH was pivotal Sparking a profound exploration of leveraging data for the study of black novels Teaming up with Brian we identified the scarcity of quantitative studies on black novels leading to the creation of the 100 novels project This initiative surveyed a diverse body of African-American literature emphasizing tack data significance in literary databases and addressing gaps in accounting for variations in race class and gender Again with Professor Mary McGrown, we secured a grant evolving this into the black book project That's us sought to look at over a thousand novels in essence My graduate school experience underscored the importance of collaborating with colleagues of Brian as well as Brian I had sustained consistent and supervised DH training even before this world of DH actually began Now most recently during my tenure as an assistant professor at the University of Texas at Arlington I worked closely with data librarian piece awesome Williamson to curate data sets on black literary art our collaborations extended to transforming data and to interact the visualizations contributing to publications and creating a DH training materials all aimed at empowering Students with research methods at the intersection of data-driven research and black studies When I first met piece in 2015 We shit we bonded over our shared frustration of the lack of content on black subjects and this fueled a five-year journey for us We developed courses that bridge the gaps between metadata visualizations and black studies Introducing scholars to digital research methodologies and promoting digital research formats One solution centered around data storytelling or emphasizing effective communication through narratives and visualizations The key takeaway here is that the importance of meaningful Collaborations meeting with peace a month into joining as an assault assistant professor at UTA opened the doors to crucial Collaborations, how can we encourage and facilitate such interactions and collaborations for others in? Closing I want us to back up and think about this exposure to data-driven research consistent and supervised DH training and meaningful collaborations is being somewhat of an Unofficial a network a hidden or seemingly hidden network So reflecting on my academic journey Libraries as a physical space and librarians and collaborators stand out as pivotal to my development a key recommendation for me Is that I actively advocate for bringing diverse groups into the physical spaces to showcase the possibilities of scholarship Now at Howard University as I reimagined black studies in the 21st century Involving librarians is a critical solution my focus as a professor of black literature is on Encourage is encouraging new scholars to enter this realm. How do we encourage people to do that? So drawing parallels between current digital scholarship and the 1968 San Francisco University student strike where the black student union Emphasized preparing black students for community struggles. I consider how can digital technologies enhance black literary studies in the age of big data? However, the crucial question remains where do students and scholars get trained in digital scholarship in navigating the future of digital scholarship networks Mentorship and other advantages are essential in summary this overglue view glimpses into our meaningful discussions Synthesizing the salient points for future recommendations I take pride in this work on this commission underscoring the transformative role of libraries And I hope that at least a little bit through my own personal timeline It kind of it uncovers how we talked about at least really promoting libraries at the center of this discussion of sustaining digital research Thank you Buenos dias. Buenas tardes Um So The title of my talk is archives community and digital scholarship proof of existence. I think I Thank James Shulman and Carol Mandel for the invitation to speak on this panel today and of course for their invitation to be part of this prestigious a Group of scholars who have come together to really think about the future of Digital archives and in scholarship for our future generations. I Open this talk with a call to action from Chicana scholar and activist Sherry Moraga from with who in her latest novel reminds us of the precarity of memory if we do not actively work toward Documenting our history who will how can we move forward towards the future if we do not have a past to hold on to In this sense the work that we have been doing at the University of Houston through art the public oppressed the recovering the US Hispanic literary heritage program in the US Latino Digital Humanities Center has been fundamental in the creation of spaces at center Latina's voices and lives in the present with an eye to the future Art the public oppressed is a nonprofit publishing house It was funded and directed by dr. Nicolás cannellos in an effort to create a publishing venue for Latinos in the US The press has published and to date more than 750 titles with only 10% of them going out of out of print The titles are published for children youth and adults in English Spanish and bilingualy in the 1990s cannellos and a group of scholars and specialists in various disciplines language literature history political science Sociology in the US came together to work towards the creation of a program that would document preserve and make available the written legacy of Latinos from the colonial period until 1980 because as we were working on contemporary publications We were realizing that there was so many more materials that were in existence already in the US that were not being archived Anywhere in the US so under the careful guidance and leadership of librarians, especially the work of el betia martell From the Center for Puerto Rican Studies. They developed a very sturdy Infrastructure for digitization metadata curation and post custodial praxis Today the recovery program is an alternative digital archive Who is working who has worked very closely with our colleagues at the University of Houston libraries? Special collections to hold all the physical materials that we produce so in the past 40 40 years the recovery program has recovered in microfilm thousands of original books manuscripts and archival items In ephemera in English Spanish French and Latino digitized in microfilm 1500 historical newspapers digitized of escalation of photographs created an extensive authority list of approximately 5000 writers published the first comprehensive anthologies of Latino literature build databases in bibliography held by annual conference by annual conferences which by the way We will be hosting our next conference in April and you're all welcome to to to Houston Printed over 45 volumes of recovered materials Build partnerships with national and international archives institutions and organizations so that we can return cultural National patrimonies back to the original countries right to Dominican Republic Cuba Mexico Spain we've also created an interdisciplinary board of specialists and thus established the field of US Latino studies As we know it today all these activities include working with graduate and undergraduate students in their professionalization in humanities By learning how to build these networks right in and in learning through primary resources Archival practices digital humanities from an ethical and holistic way that Centres the communities that inform the investigation the communities that are represented in in all of our work Have a their first seat at the table and they As much as possible give us the opportunity and inform what we do with those with those The visualizations or publications that we derive from there What follows are some of the examples of the work that we have created over the past Seven years through the creation of the US Latino Digital Humanities Center, which was Funded in great part by the Mellon Foundation Don waters and Patricia Shway who are our like God parents Really have ushered us and moved and allowed us to extend and leverage the work that are the public when recovery had been doing for the past 40 years into the future This center is an extension of the recovery program. So we built digital exhibits maps We do text analysis Twitter bots. We publish open source digital editions Data sets with free low bandwidth software that can be accessed through a phone, right? We work with as much as possible with software that allows us to produce materials in Spanish And so as you can see as you will see these activities are allowing us to take the archive that used to live Would often live behind institutional walls into the hands of our community who are now seeing themselves Represented in the archives and special collections. So this first example that I have is of the Alonso Perales collection This is the archive of one of the founders of the League of United Latin American citizens One of the oldest Hispanic civil rights organizations founded in 1929 the family Gave the collection to to the recovery program because they wanted it to be processed immediately and to be put into the hands of users When the collection was transferred to special collections to the University of Houston One of the boxes was returned to us because it included several envelopes that did not have a letter attached to it So the archivist the art to our team members that is a main field who was a volunteer And Lorena Gautaro who is our digital programs manager took the the items back and after carefully looking at the Envolos decided to extract the metadata from them They then proceeded to create a map that documented the important role that Alonso Perales played in the US Community from 1920 to 1960 So if you look at the map you see his the reach that this one person had before we had internet access and or anything else So you can see his his his his home was in San Antonio and his his reach is Broad and wide across the United United States Thus representing the the presence of a Latino community who was actively documented and and Documenting the cases of discrimination that were happening at all over the US in his records We find a whole set of approximately 1500 affidavits that document this the next example that I want to talk to you about really quickly is is the is our the our junior scholars program that we instituted Just recently through the digital archive in in in US leh So what we're doing is we're taking the digital archive and in digital training into the elementary schools as we know Our education in Texas is under attack There's a there's been a state takeover of the largest District in the Houston area and so with modest funding from a partnership with Lula council. We took All these materials into the archive we trained 75 students how to incorporate primary resources into Into a digital project into a digital timeline. So you see here students writing selecting researching Working together collaboratively to create a digital timeline that would allow them to showcase and see that they have a part in making history Students at the end felt that they were powerful because they now knew that history could be rewritten That history has is made up of many voices Ganadores y perdedores winners and losers that even little fourth graders with with with a minimal Knowledge of English or Spanish knew that their history and the in the input that they brought into history was very valuable And the very last example that I want to give you is we created an art community Archiving day so that we could bring in and bring The Houston community the Latino community together in a space to provide them with preservation kits Allow them to digitize their materials to talk to an archivist and it was a very productive activity As you can see the we had one of our state representatives Cristina Morales who is the the founder and director of Morales funeral home one of the first funeral homes set up to During the the Jim Crow area when there was a lot of segregation in Texas And so she brought in all of her records and she brought in her mother's Grandmothers that side Bible which included a lot of you know important documents that were saved within that within the Bible and so She she entrusted us with this with this Bible And so we're now consulting with scholars and digital humanists across the nation to see how best to you know To to to preserve this and also to make it available as a visual exhibit people documented places that no longer exist in Houston that were Latino based and The last thing that I know my time is up But I want to mention that one of the last things that we showcase is that there was brought to us it really is bringing our work really full circle Somebody brought in The their mother's apron so to me this really documents the the how our community is is seeing that their Artifacts that their personal materials belong in an archive that there's a space for them that we should safeguard them That we should when we look at that apron and we see the grease strength the grease stains We see an an active mother a woman who is not only mothering her immediate family But she's also mothering a community that is that is that is active and that has always been present in the US I'll read just the last two lines of my conclusion, which is I'm sorry for this So we know that these efforts continue all these efforts that we are putting forward throughout the public or recovery USLDH Continue to strengthen the pathways that will teach us to recover and celebrate the past now as Michelle Caswell Marica C4 Mario H. Ramirez are our colleague Librarians and archivist are reminding us that if we can preserve and document our history now we can firmly and In securely walk into our future understanding that there are generations That will not have to look back to see if they did have roots because they have always been here. Thank you So Thank You Gabby. Thank you Ken and So I am actually not going to talk about all those eight infrastructure layers. I think Gabby and Kent and I've given you a Good feel for these these kind of layers of community and layers of personal connection and networking and training Because this is C&I I'm gonna I want to I want help And I want help from all of you and and the folks in the competing Presentations, maybe they can come and help us when they see the recordings to talk about the the platforms and and technologies Aspects of of what we're doing and and So, you know this gang at C&I has for like 25 years been talking about You know the digital humanities and how to support and sustain it and how to preserve it and There's just been terrific work and And the challenges continue remain You know this I'm not gonna go all of go through This these are all Familiar to you and and I you know put the last one support support support I think you heard a lot about what support has meant To to work that's important and going on what I want to do Today is is put the lens of diverse digital scholarship the work in Digital work in racial and social justice. I want to put the that lens on these issues So we're all working on them, but I think when you put that lens on it It might change priorities or perspectives or urgencies or what we might do first. So that's what I Want to do today. So, okay, I wasn't sure how these actually worked Sorry, they didn't do that on my computer They're doing it the way I wanted it, but um, so as you heard Important work is happening outside as well as within institutions and as you can imagine And know that's really a challenge for what kind of technologies folks can have available to them What kind of platforms they can use and and even as great tools have been Developed with it still presents enormous challenges for sustainability and preservation So you you know communities have tools. They're doing things You heard from Maria Cotera and in the spring and when I asked her what keeps her up at night You know, this was her this was her answer, which won't surprise any of you, but it it really does say well Where we you know, how do we work on? We're not just here and institutions working working on this um, oh So does my next one slide into okay, so and as As you've heard important work is being done not just in our One institutions that have the resources to build repositories and create Technologies and support, but it's being done all across different kinds of Institutions by folks who have different pressures on them different kinds of support You heard I know I know you did because we shared a Platform a program platform at last this time last year with Allison leaving when she talked about the summer Institute of Brown for HBCU scholars that want to do digital work And they get great training in that three weeks at Brown and then they go back to real life and the the kinds of workloads that they have and Really they have to rely on support from other places and other institutions and other help desks If they're gonna get help because they're not getting it at home and that provide you know So we have to think about how do these infrastructures reach across? institutions Okay float And in when communities and when you're working with this kind of content the creators And I think Gabby really brought that home that communities need to have access to it and be empowered to Control and govern it and that all has implications, you know It's one thing to work within our walls are cultivated walls institutional gardens but when you open those up it creates all kinds of challenges and I think Mercutu is a you know a platform familiar to many of you and if not please look into it and him Christian one of our commissioners has Spoken a lot about why it was created and the way it enables communities to Describe things in the way they want to describe them and share them or not share them in the way they want to share them And it's a great model. It's got lots of uses And an R1 institution, you know Washington State helped create it, but it Promulgated widely, but it's a it's a it we need more of it. We need more people using it We need to make sure it thrives and survives. It has its own challenges. Also, it's a platform for Description and access. It's it's not a preservation And as we look at repository work Here's a quote from one of our 23 So we wait I was talking about how the humanities commons core is trying to look at what kinds of features are needed For community control, and it's a you know, it's a tricky concept preservation and holding it close versus letting people in say no, I want to take it out brings a whole other level of challenges to look at and And We as we talked in the focus groups It was clear that this kind of work needs very Wide audience. I mean that's always been true digital humanists. How do you create for any? Digital humanists in lots of fields. How do you create a trade book? For a digital humanities project. How do you make a bestseller out of it? and as And more and more of this kind of work needs to reach very different kinds of audiences Darcy Collin who's in charge of the Raven space project, which brings indigenous cultural content into actually a online kind of Rich publication University of British Columbia press talks about how they're discovering how wide their audience needs to be how different it is from the way They're used to doing outreach it brings all a whole variety of other kinds of outreach problems and Well outreach challenges and opportunities And I think that really overarching Issue is that because this work is reparative and And rediscovers and fills this deep gap of untold stories We can't fill that gap and then let it disappear once we've done you know So there's this just imperative for sustainability and preservation That I mean I think just listening to the folks here may make clear. I was very struck by the way John strupe at Princeton talked about it in one of our focus groups and so I'll read some of that The quote that Sustainability has to be a pillar of how we present any initiatives going forward and he was thinking about the Project they've done at Princeton and Princeton slavery. We're putting forward something that reflects not just scholarship But a different view on how I'm on values at our institution is shifting and we Risk saying well, this was important now and now we're done, you know, we can't treat this as a trend If we're going to move this front and center It's got to stay for a time that goes well past the span of any of our careers. So I think that just Really struck me and it's really hard So You know, I'm not gonna take these one at a time. I'm gonna bring them all up in the interests of time some of the things that we're Looking at as kind of objectives for recommendations or directions for recommendations It's become pretty clear to us And this was true of digital humanities in general But because there's been a lot of grant support for this kind of work that institutions really need to realize that Humanists actually work together. They don't just work alone that they actually You know need administrative support for grants and funding that they hire people and and they certainly have you know Data sets and lots of Technology and that requires a kind of rethink within their departments women their schools within the institution When we look I mean, I know that Everybody at CNI is working all the time to fill in the puzzle pieces of infrastructure that will manage data bring it forward preserve things but when we I think we just need to be bolder and Faster because this work is so important and we need to take More new approaches and give it higher priority and especially some of the repository parts of that work We need to funding we need to look at funding approaches that Don't just say oh, that's a great new project go out and do it But also help us find work on infrastructure and sustainability and on maintenance If we have to redo something and that's a change I think in funding priorities and it's been very clear talking in our focus groups that folks need help across institution and That we need third-party kinds of organizations to that can help so where are these help desks coming from and I'm just kind of describing there some of the kinds of support that we need to be giving so Our recommendations are gonna focus on how we can create more environments more programs Organizations and kind of purposeful convenings. I'm gonna look to cliff. I haven't had a chance to you know of we need a I don't know a CNI take off or ways to convene around some of these questions so that we can keep working in focused ways across all kinds of Disciplines where we can put all these different Expertises and perspective together so So we're gonna need your help is all I can say something We definitely have a few minutes for for questions or comments or suggestions So he's helpful to have a joining rooms because you hear the clapping and Carol knew it was time to stop so Welcome thoughts questions concerns of any kind Jen Stringer from Getty I'm wondering how when you were talking about you know technical support and infrastructure So my my mind is sort of spinning on there are lots of open-source platforms But many smaller cultural heritage groups don't have the technical wherewithal to actually you know get he has something called arches Welcome to use it. Good luck. You know what I mean and so I'm wondering if If you had more specific recommendations around You know ways to create collaborations or you know fund shared Infrastructure and resources, you know how anyway, I'm just interested in your thoughts on how that that that might work I should make James So I'll answer by saying that the recommendations are still in process So so that's a great feedback. It's certainly something that we all have experienced it in the in the commission We've talked a lot about how what those reciprocal relationships are with communities and including what? What a community should put in its MOU when it gets involved with the university like here's what we need from you Rather than just you know, okay. Thanks for your help and where are you now? So so I think I think Scalable and supportable Platforms and tools and usable tools. I mean Maria who spoke last year uses Clouder because she finds you know And obviously there's not gonna be one answer one platform But for for the communities that she works with they she finds for describing Objects and data. It's been very helpful and very a little training goes a long way so so I think that's that that would be the the gist of Realistic relationships so that provide the kind of support that actually help projects both go forward and also be taken care of Stewarded in the right ways ethically over the longer term But that's another example as Maria gets help from Illinois to use Clouder And so it's a cross institutional support Even though she said an R1 and and so We're not gonna have a list of and we need but but I think if we can really Articulate some of the kinds of things that we need and then create You know start knocking on doors or create convenings where people can talk about that You know so it's it's the beginning of the moving in directions So thank you for what you just said because it was perfect and I asked one more question I'm also thinking about connecting disparate archives to your point of how do you follow? Things in sort of you know that are connected. I'm thinking of that idea of link data and and And good and using vocabularies in the right way and yet not putting this tremendous burden on these smaller Institutions and organizations that are just trying to collect the stuff and preserve it You know and so I'm just anyway. It's another thought to put out there in terms of you know Encouraging whatever the right practices are that allow these things to not only live on but be discoverable Beyond just you know that small subset of scholarship and I I think that's you know, you'll see the PID suggestion there and and also You know, I think coherent digital for example if you've looked at its products It's a way is such a lightweight way of being able to pull up and link and find information. So that's the kind of Overlays and lightweight, you know, what is what are the few most important things because how much can you expect from? communities to do Can I add something? Oh, please do? Community small communities are using some of these material I mean there they are you know, they they are knowledgeable of some of these, you know The uses of metadata and in these protocols They may not have enough trained people to do it But it is happening because a lot of these community organizations do want their materials to be discoverable So I think it's also a shift from a lot of these organizations to begin to think about like James said How can we serve these communities and incorporate them because they they're existing and they're working with those but those Parameters have not thought of them, right? They're not they're not created for them And so we do a lot of a rewriting Subject headings, you know working with Library of Congress to correct and to better Describe the materials that we have because we want you know, we're part of the system, but we're not included in the I hope my question is less than a minute for response. It's for the scholars Hello, I'm Athena and I have the pleasure and honor to work with Gabby at the University of Houston And I hope we are doing the best we can for her organization because it's really important to the libraries I hope you know that So my question is to both of you You spoke in your original in your first Talk about space and the place and we're in it at an event centered on digitization and Network, but I also am from Latinx background and I do see the value of our Reclaiming space the physical space and I was curious what if you had any pondering ponderings on how we can connect space and this Work for our students and for our communities and our institutions if you have any recommendations or ideas That'd be really helpful. And if you want to connect you to see and I I know went off script But I thought this would be a good opportunity to ask that Yeah, I might start on thinking about that as one thing I should say I'm a Mellon fellow as well So every connection to the library was facilitated word of mouth wise word of mouth Oh, you should go here and check this out and while just happening to be there I would happen upon other people who would say things so even as we're thinking about even the structural things with this particularly I'm thinking about how do we even get people in a space to even have Conversations to begin with and then one of the things that I am seeing is just like again going back to my example of Visiting the Brooklyn public library having different types of exhibits that might speak to different types of audiences Is at least I think one of the first steps in inviting people into these spaces again I think so much can happen from conversations even when thinking about Infrastructure for the future, but how do we even get different voices in a single room to even start expressing those concerns freely? So again, this is just my idea about this but a lot of different types of exhibits that actually invite you into the space Gotcha I think I would just add echoing what Kenton said also I know the the physical space and as as an amazing Dean has said many times to our Constituents the library is the heart of the university we write it it pulses for the university and it shares, you know all the lifelines But even saying this are now our current library now has you know a check-in ID Where you in order for you to access the space, you know You have to you know be a student or you have to be a member or you or you have to have an ID so Maybe taking the library that opening that space to other places outside within the university campus, right? Going maybe to the dorms or having like public events events at a community center where the University of Houston libraries or any other library goes into these spaces to really Show that there is a commitment right of outreach into the into their communities because you know Our communities are now aware that they belong but there's still barriers that are there You know the infrastructure continues to put on because you know whether we like it or not They continue to tell us that we don't belong there, right? So so I think that that presence physical presence outside of those spaces goes a very long way Thank you for getting Gabby and Kent to keep helping us with recommendations That was our unofficial ending Now I'm gonna provide our official ending which is that thank you all I mean we would love to hear from you as as thoughts circulated in your echo in your ear You know again the timetable for this is in the first quarter of the year We're actually now we we have something like 80 quotes from Commissioners and or focus group participants that we're vetting with them. We're also working on Illustrations, you know strategic illustrations to sort of liven up the report and we're looking at Platforms to publish it on so that it can be both a linear report, but also can have access for different people you know if you're a vice provost for research or if you're You know a department chair in the humane's department. You might be interested in more, you know entering in non-linear ways So those are the things where we can now and and spinning out soon But I just I just want to say you know what a great honor and treat It is to work with the 21 people on these on this commission because as you've seen You know we could spend all day with each of them And so so thank you both for for joining us today and thank you all for for joining us for this discussion