 This is Think Tech Hawai'i. Community matters here. Aloha and welcome to Eyes on Hawai'i on Think Tech Hawai'i. I'm your host Carol Cox. Today my guests are Dennis and Sandra Park. We will be talking about the recent renaming of a park in Hawai'i Kai in honor of Sandra's great-grandfather, Mr. Joe Lukella, Kono Hiki, caretaker of the fishing and portions of Mauna Loa Bay. And before I get started this is a very beautiful place, Mauna Loa, Mauna Loa Bay. Many fish ponds are found in that area up and down the coast there and Sandra was fortunate to be part of that system and she's told me quite a bit about it and I'm going to share with you and let her tell you in greater details what this is about. It was very moving on Saturday. The blessing for this park was done. So Sandra, thank you for joining me. Thank you Carol. Dennis, thank you for coming in. Thank you. All right. So introduce yourself if you would and then tell us about the Kono Hiki, the process, the fishing, the caretaking of the fish and and the sad part of it, the absence of the masses of millions of fish that would gather there that your grandfather managed. It's actually, it's my great grandfather. I was fortunate enough to grow up at my tutu's house right after the bridge, the second bridge of Mauna Loa Bay. As Kono Hiki, his responsibility was to take care of the fish pond and his kuleana, which is, he was in charge of all of Mauna Loa Bay all the way around to Makapul, you know, and as being Kono Hiki, you are, you are caretaker and owner from mountain to ocean, including everything in the ocean, you know. Is this what this be considered on Hupua? Yes, yes. And he was the Kono Hiki of that. How did he have that bestowed on him or granted to him? The Ali'i or the king, they actually appoint you to, they tell you this is what your responsibility is. So he, perhaps in 1966, was born in 1879? So he then at some point became appointed as Kono Hiki. Yeah, he was Kono Hiki for 50 years, over 50 years. Yeah. And where did he stay in this area? We call it Hawaii Kai now. It's gone through so many changes. But where did he stay? And we have some pictures that we're going to show if you could describe that and and tell us where his house was or his folly. Okay. It was, when I was growing up, it wasn't called Hawaii Kai. There was no such thing as Hawaii Kai. It was Kuli O'O. That's all we knew where my tutu left was Kuli O'O. And his home was right right after the bridge, you know, where it was a kuapa pond. Yeah. Was right directly in the back of his home. Yeah. And so if you go to my tutu's beach park, yeah, you're going to be able to see remnants of his pier. Yeah, fishing the boat pier that had his sandpans attached to it, you know. And you could actually, it's from the pier and you, it was like that corner of of the, we call it the river. Yeah. Right now it's called a marina. Yeah. And we have some pictures showing right now. This is, you can see the pawlings, they're a portion of them up top of the picture. Yeah. Can you explain that a little bit? It's actually right at the corner of where those pilings are, which really shouldn't be there because the erosion of that river or that marina, they're doing damage by having that pilings on the side of that marina. But his home was right in that corner all the way to the pier, whether you saw the remnants. Now there's a picture of the park at actually how it's laid out along the coast there. And what was it, or earlier named, what was the name of the park, you know? We just knew it as Kulio'o, but it was, they didn't even look like that. This was dredged because when we looked from when when we were at our tutu's house, it was just core trees, core bushes. It was just completely, like it didn't have any, it had the coastline, but it didn't have any harbor or beach park or anything. It was just flatland and core bushes and calvary trees. That was it. This, we say he took care of the fishing, but also there were other things like limo or a seaweed, as we say on the mainland. How did that go and what a number of types of ogle or seaweeds were there, found there, correct? We, right alongside of his home where the marina is, it was choked limo over there, you know. But as a young child, I wasn't allowed to pick the limo, you know? Because if you get damaged, the coral, you got to, you got to know how to pick the limo. But it was, very carefully, yes, yes, you know, but not pulling it and damaging the the coral, you know. So my parents and my older cousins was allowed to pick the limo, but I, my, growing up there, I was more like playing in the water and you know. What type of limo were found there, limo color, limo? No, it was just a regular brown limo. It wasn't the green limo, we just called it limo. You know, but it was the brown limo that you can eat raw and you put them in poke, you know. Yeah, now you're using a couple of terms there, the people on the mainland or in other places who recognize that. Oh, well, poke is raw fish, cutting cubes, yeah, with Hawaiian salt. And what's limo? Tutu. Tutu is grandmother or grandfather. Okay, and then there's that famous word chok. Chok means plentiful, yeah, you know, yeah, lots, you know. Which we don't have anymore. No, we don't have. Yeah, there's no limo in there. In fact, there's invasive seaweed, yeah, but that's not the limo that we used to pick and eat. So Dennis, now you're on this bandwagon with us and I was overjoyed because I'm seeing so much of Hawaii disappear and just, it's no big deal to some people but seeing Hawaiian being recognized for, we'll say that's a little preserving of the peace of Hawaiian culture at least to just that simple naming of that park after him and dedicating. What about you? We need to share the information and how he lived his life and how he managed the resources. I mean, he's gone. There's changes now, commercial changes, development, but what we need to do as Lavaia is pass on the knowledge to the younger generation and hopefully they can turn things around one by one and make a difference and be able to adapt and change what is happening now. To preserve it. So the word Lavaia, fishmen. It's more than a fisherman. Lavaia in general turned is a fisherman with respect for others and for the environment and its relationship to the ocean and the land. And we see some decline now. I was listening to the presentation that is being talked about at that gathering at the blessing and what I observed was it was rather sad because you're right there and you hear the thousands and thousands of mullet turning the water black or the Akule turning the water black and moving. I actually, sorry Carol, but I actually experienced that firsthand. I am not sure what age I was, but I remember being at my tutu's house right in that what we call the river. You just standing right in the water and just all this fish come right between your legs and they just you know and it's like so much movement in the water you know and and you actually you're laughing inside because they're like whacking your leg they're so so much yeah you know and they they just like rushing you know. So now they're there in these large numbers what is it that your great great grandfather would do in the effort of managing them? Well when the fish would come to the river he would actually open up the gate and allow the fish to go into the ponds yeah you know and then he would make sure that when they were finished spawning and growing of whatever size they supposed to be then he would allow the fish he would open up the gates and let the fish come out into the ocean. And some say they found their way back to this quote river because they could smell the water or taste the water similar to the salmon or any migratory fish or other species aquatic species and and standing there and looking out and it seems to be more boats more jet skis than fish. More commercial activity and and this likely to have an impact because mullet are quite active on top of the water for spawning and mating activities and then yet this increase of activity such as this. Yeah you saw Saturday how much activity there was you know we've been going there for the last three weekends trying to prepare for the blessing and everything and we had saw so much so much activity you know with jet skis and and boats coming in and out of the marina and you could actually when you go and touch the water you can feel all that that oil and pollution. And that is not good for spawning fish or no it's not good for anything it's not good for anything. We didn't even let our our grandkids in the water. I'm laughing to keep from crying because it is a painful thought. There's just still our fish you don't see them because there's activity in the areas where they want to come to you know so before they used to make certain areas close seasons because they knew when the fish would spawn and when they would come those things are still happening but there's more activity in these areas so the fish the fish now got to find somewhere else to go but we need to we need to manage like they used to manage you know and close areas to allow them to come in and spawn maybe not for the whole time but for the seasons. We're coming up on a break but we'll when we come back we'll talk about the flags and the setting the torches how if they were used or incorporated in managing and sibling to other fishermen when the fish were in and when they were not and whatever. We'll take a break this is Eyes on Hawaii, Think Tech Kauai. I'm your host Carol Cox. We'll be right back. For every game day a sign had designated driver. Welcome back to Eyes on Hawaii on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm your host Carol Cox. Today my guests are Dennis and Sandra Park. We're talking about the recent renaming of a park in Hawaii Kai in honor of Sandra's great-grandfather Mr. Joe Leukella. So thank you again for joining me. Thank you. Sandra and Dennis. Now we were talking about your great-grandfather and him serving as a konohiki and in the area of Kulio O to Makapu. There were some activities going on he incorporated torches and flags of some sort to signal to other fishermen when when the fish were in or can you explain that process or share with us. He would actually light fires in the mountain to to I guess signal when the boats could come in to to catch the fish yeah to to lay net for the fish but he would also when it wasn't time for for the fishing yeah um he would have white flags in the bay saying that this is it's closed it's closed season yeah it was his way of saying this is closed season and there are a lot of times that he would actually confront the poachers because even back then they had you know he had problems with people trying to or people not obeying what they supposed you know what they just did. Was he empowered with any law enforcement authority or was he who did he call on to punish these people that would be found to be violating. He did it himself he actually had a badge yeah we found a badge yeah he did it himself yeah when you are um you when you are the konohiki it's as if that is you own that that bay and you you own that fish and you owe that ownership or authority to the people the league that are pointing yes because you're carrying out their wishes yes perpetuating and his and Aliye's wishes was for him to take fish to the downtown market to feed the people of Hawaii and my tutu also fed a lot of families in the community of Kulio'o and Waimanalo and um I every day I'm hearing more and more stories about my tutu. Now I did hear a bit of discussion out there where uh he would give fish to some and they would in turn give him other things yeah like um bartering not bartering just yeah it was just um it was just a Hawaiian way of you know like if he wants rice then he go and give limo you know he if he gives fish then you get mano alebe you know you get uh fruits or or vegetables you know so he was actually paid by when he sold fish or bartered fish yes and and that um it wasn't a lot you know as much fish as he caught it wasn't a lot a lot of money but of course back then you really didn't need a whole lot did you ever see the drying racks or did he ever have any racks where he's drying the Kulu Kulio or Opelu no no um he actually had a fishing shack right before the pier and we weren't allowed to go in there but we used to we're we're kind of Kaluhei did you ever snatch a Opelu out no you can tell us now you're not around no um but there was there was the the shack has nothing but um fishing nets yeah drying it was just it was made out of linen you know like cord and um it wasn't suji like now you know monofilament yeah it was all uh like cord you know but it was it was a lot of net in the in the fishing shack now there's some people if they're interested if they parlor there's a um we call it marker it's a rock or a storm sitting in the water that eliminates or shows the boundary of his and what is that rock called lucala's rock um lucala's marker and that's coming in to monolua bay where it's 20 about 20 maybe yards from the shoreline and if you're looking if you're in monolua bay it's on your right right past the canoe hello yeah uh you can just you can see it sticking out of the water that's that big hollyvah that where the river runs through yes yeah so how many great grandkids or that does he have that spun from mr lucala i have no idea i did not count but um at our blessing they were there were 70 so maybe 73 of us that was actually lucala you know now we're showing a picture of some of the the gathering some of the family members there and all of these not all of them but many of them are relatives or descendants of joe lucala yes yes and and then of course um there's a lot of people from the community you know but the majority is um the lucala ohana now denis with with all the fishing and all do you think we could incorporate or implement such a practice nowadays get away from the or is it is it possible that we incorporate some practices of management like mr lucala did to try to bring back the fish yes we can um cold season we have some cold season the winter time is three months closed for the spawning of the mullet summer time is closed for moi so we we need to fishermen and the community and everybody needs to be aware of just thinking what we need and trying to perpetuate the take care of the fish when they're trying to reproduce so that we can perpetuate more and there's areas like i said maybe that we should be looking at because there were fish ponds all around but um tutu man had the one of the largest in all of polynesia and that was you know the fish travel they know where they're going we need to know where they're going and how to take care of them and protect them wherever they are where they are spawning so we need to set up protection there limit the number of take and catch limit the activities that they're exposed to motors and oils and runoff from lawns and new buildings and building construction sites and just and runoff from the streets yes that builds a very toxic environment for fish like mullet or any fish that is started with all the development the water just runs right into the ocean so it's going to take a bigger effort on everybody's part to include government private entities that would start to work together and get this but but it starts from us yeah it you know as my tutu was konihiki we also take on that responsibility of you know um being konihiki even though we're not appointed by the ali this is our responsibility to teach our children and they teach their children you know how to take care you know of the ocean and and everything around us you know before i uh get off air here with this but there were some important people that provided your assistance in getting this done and who were there i think that the city councilman and if you would yeah uh well ernie martin had helped us and city councilman yeah city councilman ernie martin and trevor ozawa he's council um for hawaii kai and uh laura thielen she's the senator for hawaii kai and waimanalo and also and marie kerr she was a big help with with um the renaming of the of my tutu man's park yeah so and and here's a shot of laura thielen senator laura thielen and and marie kerr on the left there yes and and marie kerr is with um manaloa net and there's also chris kramer that's my uncle whose name joe lukella the third that is joe lukella your great grandfather's son my grandfather's son yeah my grandfather's son well my my mom's grand my mom's wait no i'm all confused he's my mom's brother yeah yeah and and that's my auntie caroline lee and she is um my great grandfather's granddaughter that's how i should say it yeah well we're coming down to the last minute if you would tell us about the pohaku and the the monument that is going to be placed in and real quick if you would uh we are actually um in the process of um having the city well we're having the city move the we're having a volunteer move the pohaku to the park and then we need the city to place it where where we want the pohaku and we also are in the process of um putting up a plaque yeah and it will be coming in the near future yes i hope very near if people want more information of contact you could you give your email address yes contact real quick with my email address is lavaya49 at gmail.com and you actually could call me on my phone 808 220 8095 um and um i also wanted to thank chris kramer yeah yeah because chris kramer and anmarie were instrumental instrumental in getting this yeah from the beginning okay well thank you thank you for joining me today on eyes on hawaii on think tech hawaii if you're interested in getting on our mailing list go to thinktech hawaii thank you for joining me today on our eyes on hawaii on the think tech hawaii thanks to jay fidel our executive director and our technical support team robert mclean ray sangalung and nick sexton i'll see you again in two weeks i'm carol cox aloha