 Our final agenda item is the faculty spotlight that we instituted a few months ago and Bill Fisher has graciously agreed to be in the faculty spotlight this evening. So Bill, we're looking forward to hearing about your journey as a scholar in whatever way you would like to tell us about that. At least somebody's looking forward to it. No, I definitely wouldn't be proud of it. Do you need to share your screen? No, I don't. Okay. So, all right, let's take it away. Okay, so this is my sort of journey slash life in the academy. And to start this trip, if you will, we need to go back to September of 1968, which I realize some of you may not even have been born by then. Since September of 1968, with the exception of four months at the end of 1973. I have been in one capacity or another affiliated with one institution of higher education or another. It's, you know, to today. So that's well over 50 years. And, you know, just looking at those numbers, one might think that I was, you know, just meant to be in the academy. But in point of fact, it was anything but and in, you know, a little while you'll you'll learn how I ended up here. So, September of 1968 was when I started college, if you will, as a freshman. And I started at a small private school, not too far from home. And it was a four year school. And I was essentially using it as a community college because I lived in and grew up at that point in time in Arkansas. And the only two year schools in the late 60s in Arkansas were what Pat may be familiar with they were technical schools, not community colleges as we understand them today. And not wanting to be either an electrician or a plumber. That was not a good academic option for me. So I went to this small school to sort of learn how to be a student and figure out how a college or university works. And the idea being that I'd have more fewer students, more access to faculty and things like that. So I used it for two years. And in my start of my junior year I transferred to Georgetown University, which is located in our nation's capital in Washington DC. And I was a student in Georgetown School of Foreign Service, because my first career choice the first career choice I recall making sort of as a quasi thinking adult was to be a diplomat. I was going to, you know, eventually be Secretary of State and save the world from itself, or whatever. And so Georgetown was one of a handful of schools that actually had a program in Foreign Service at that time. And I got admitted to that program and felt great about it. Now those of us in the US may well have heard the term the Beltway, which refers to a series of roads that essentially encircle our nation's capital. And there's the idea of things inside the Beltway and things outside the Beltway. And my view was I wanted to be a diplomat from what I knew and understood from outside the Beltway. And so I get to Georgetown in and it's now September of 1970. And now I'm inside the Beltway. And it didn't take me too long to figure out that not being, you know, a fifth generation graduate of Yale, or not having someone in my immediately immediate family having donated millions of dollars to someone's Senate campaign or even better presidential campaign. The chances of me getting into a position where I can actually help make policy set policy and determine the course of our foreign relation policy were slim and none. You know, the realities of inside the Beltway. So the the decision then was do I stay at Georgetown and change majors, or do I go somewhere else and regroup and Georgetown was also a private school and at the time tuition was I thought extremely high it's probably still very high still a private school. And so I decided that change majors and stay at Georgetown wasn't worth the money. And I was on sort of, you know, my father's dime, if you will, he had told his children that he was good for four years of school. And that was pretty much it. So, trying to transfer in the middle of your junior year is not probably the smartest thing in the world you could do. And I figured the only place that I could had a had a decent shot at getting in was to go to the University of Arkansas. Since I was a resident of the state, and I had, you know, fairly decent grades, and all that other kind of good stuff so I didn't see how they could say no, even though later, I learned that they could have. But there was some information they didn't have at the time so I did get admitted. And so, midway through my junior year I'm at the University of Arkansas, and I am a history major, which I had been initially at that at that school, small school for two years. A history major as some of our previous speakers had also identified themselves. I majored in history at Arkansas but I also since I had most of my general ed requirements done. I took a lot of courses in political science so I actually had ended up with a double major of history and political science. And most of those political science courses focused on government at the state or local level. Probably, Arkansas as I recall at the time did not have a specific public administration degree or program. And so, that was my focus, you know I was disillusioned with government at the federal level, but not necessarily at the state or local level and thought that I still might be able to have an impact in that regard. I also, as a lot of history majors did as I settled in and met some people. A potential career option for me was to go to law school. I took the LSAT the law school admissions test and did okay on that. And in talking with some people from the law school and I had a good friend who was a student in the law school. I was told that I could probably get admitted to law school at the University of Arkansas, and I could become what they, what they described as quote a country club lawyer, unquote, which essentially meant that I'd be in some medium sized community in Arkansas or one of the neighboring states have a practice, make enough money that I could join the country, join a country club if there was one and that's where I would sort of mingle with my clients or find clients or what have you. But I wanted to be a country club lawyer probably about as much as I wanted to be an electrician or a plumber. So I in fact did not apply it to law school. You know, then what do I do so in thinking about what I, what exactly I wanted to do and the people that had any kind of impact or influence on my life. In first place was my father. But once, you know, we got down to the spot to three or what have you, it occurred to me that everybody else was from the Academy, and most of them were history instructors. And one of the good things about that small school was I did get to talk with and, and knew some history instructors there, and in fact wrote to one after I had gotten back from Georgetown to ask it, him what his life was like in his road to being a history professor and he was still working on his degree while he was teaching at that small school so and he God bless him he took the time to give me a very thorough and thoughtful response. There were some professors at the University of Arkansas. They were all also very helpful. So, you know that was it. You know decision made I was going to be a history professor. Almost end of story. Now to do that of course I needed to get a graduate degree or graduate degrees I should say in history so in addition to the LSAT I took the GRE and I took actually I took the advanced test in history and the advanced test in political science because it's always nice to have a backup. And applied for and got admitted to the master's program in history at the University of Arkansas. But my four years were up on on Papa Fisher's dime. So I also needed some income and you know over the years I had, you know had part time jobs here and there and had made a little money but certainly not enough to even pay tuition, let alone provide for myself so at at the time. You know, what they had at Arkansas were called graduate assistantships. And they came in a number of different versions if you will, and there were two assistantships that I applied for. One was an assistantship with the history department to be a research assistant. Arkansas actually had just started a PhD program in history so most of it was master students. And so we weren't teaching assistants, because we couldn't teach go in and have a course an entire course to ourselves for full semester. So there was an assistantship opening the history department that I was very interested in. And the other assistantship was to work in one of the residence halls, which I had actually done my senior year. So I had managed to exchange some labor for room and board, if you will. And the graduate assistantship was room and board for a year and a monthly stipend. So I did both applied for both did whatever interviews were there. And of course, because I was very interested in history assistantship. I got the one in the residence hall. So, you know, you never count on getting what you want at least initially. I was told that somebody else got the history assistantship which was all well and good and actually somebody I knew. So that was that I started graduate school in the summer. I had, you know, between the time I graduated Arkansas with a BA degree and started the master's program I had 10 days to two weeks of quote vacation I went home and did laundry and went back to Fayetteville. So I had a few courses under my belt and the fall semester starts and I'm the graduate assistant in this residence hall which essentially meant I was like the number two person in charge of a nine story building that had between six and 700 young men away from home many of them for the first time who wanted to try to push that new freedom about as far as they could push. And I was there, as well as other people to help push back, I guess. So the fall semester starts. And it's like the first or second week of school, and I'm over around the history offices. And one of one of my professors says has Dr. Chase talk to you yet and Dr. Chase being the chair of the history department. And I go no he has not. And he said well you need to go talk to him. We've been told. If we see you to send you to him, and you know that was almost like being sent to the principal's office and I'm going what, you know what the hell did I do now. And so I go and find Dr. Chase. And he tells me that the guy that got the assistantship is not going to be in school for this fall semester, he had some family issue and was taking a semester off. Did I want the history assistantship for one semester. And, you know, I told him that was a very intriguing offer. I also told him that I had the job in the dorm in that I had heard that you could only have one assistantship at a time. And he, you know, the things we learn he he didn't even bat an eye he said, you let me worry about the rules and the procedures. Do you want the assistantship or not. And I said, yes, I do. So he asked me, you know, what I was my course load because now I knew I had this other commitment. And I told him, you know, I had a full load of classes and he said well, you know, if this comes through goes goes I got to check and make sure, but I think I can make this happen. I asked you to drop a class, so you don't get overwhelmed and you have time to commit to everything including the classes that you'll still have. And I said okay that, you know, I was trying to finish the master's degree as quickly as I could because I needed to get somewhere to get a job to be able to afford to get the PhD. I don't know history, but I figured, you know, one more, you know, the first term of the summer to finish things up with one class won't be the end of the world. And the immediate thought I had was, I can be a freshman orientation counselor, which was probably the most prestigious student job on campus. They choose a, I forget now if there were 14 or 16 summer orientation counselors, half male, half female. And they did an on campus orientation throughout the summer, bringing in, you know, maybe 100 students at a time, two and a half days, you know, they showed the first group showed up Sunday evening. On Tuesday morning they were gone, or Wednesday morning they were gone and another group, we started Wednesday afternoon and they left on Friday. And so, I said okay, you know, I'll be an orientation counselor and that'll get me a little more money and this and that and the other. I did the, I did the both assistantships he did figure out how to make it happen so don't listen to rules that was something I learned. You know, at least give it a try and wait until two or maybe three people tell you it can't happen and then try a fourth. So I did that, you know, the fall semester went well. I had a good. The professor I was working with was very good he was an assistant professor had been there for a little while, and he gave me a lot of good information about getting a PhD in history. What it was like this and that and the other very interesting he was actually an Ohio State graduate. He had gotten his PhD there. And his, his best piece of his best recommendation to me was don't go to Ohio State. Because his his thinking was he said, you know, there were over 200 PhD history students when I was there. And, you know, everybody's jockeying for attention. And, you know, FaceTime with the same set of instructors and this and that and the other goes go somewhere smaller go somewhere where you'll have access to your instructor. And he did not recommend Ohio State, or he said any large he said check make sure look at the numbers don't go any place like that. So I, you know, put that in the data bank made it through that first year, did apply for to be an orientation counselor. And then realize just how competitive it was I've kind of given it away that I did in fact get that job. But when I interviewed for that job they were interviewing eight of us at one time. And that was not the only group that interviewed. So that's how much of a demand there was for these positions but of that of the eight that were in that room at that time, I was the only one that was chosen. And then, you know, met up with my other colleagues, and we started the summer. You know, almost the week after classes ended. And the reason this is important is, you know, we had our first group in so it's like Monday morning and we get through whatever our set activities were. It's lunchtime. Most people are up in the dining hall having lunch. And I've never been a big luncheater. So, while we were upstairs downstairs in the main area and they were using one big residence hall to do most of this stuff. The people were setting up because the main activity for the afternoon was representatives from the different units on campus were there. And people could if you had no idea what you wanted to do you could go and talk to people, you know, from the psychology department from the history department from the biology department, etc. If you were interested in biology then you could go and just really find out what what the course load was like and requirements and this and that and the other so it was all the academic advising. So I go down to see if I can help out any way shape or form, and somehow or another end up working with helping the one guy that was in there, who was wearing a suit and tie. And he ended up being the dean of one of the colleges at Arkansas, and I am extremely embarrassed to tell you, I don't remember the gentleman's name. Nor do I remember the academic unit, he was the dean of, although I can tell you for my San Jose colleagues it was comparable to our Casa to applied sciences and arts, because this guy had a recreation background that was his. That was his academic unit, if you will. So I'm helping him get ready to get set up, and he's chatting to me you know like any good academic does with a student what's your name, what's your major, what are you going to do with yourself. So I got the first two right. And for question number three, I looked at him and I said well you know I'm not entirely sure. And he said, so this gentleman turns to me after a couple minutes of conversation and he said, Have you considered library science. And you know part of me is thinking, you need a degree to work in a library. And I, I, you know so I look at him I go, No, I have not. And he said, Well, you know it's fairly, you know, I don't know what the right word is because a lot of people with history background. Go there because they, they have the research skills from their history degree, and they get jobs at university campuses. And they help people with their research. And I go that sounds kind of interesting. You know what else can you tell me about this new profession that I just learned about. And that was about it, but not only do this guy know about units that weren't in his college. I think knew everybody on campus because he said if you want more information. There's a woman in our College of Education that actually teaches some library science courses. And this is her name. And I'm even more embarrassed that I don't remember that woman's name. And I thanked him very much, and he continued getting set up and I went to help some other people get set up. You know, so there's this literally a chance encounter that maybe took all of 10 minutes. And now I kind of have a potential new career field. So we get through the orientate the academic advising section it's now three or 330 on a Monday or Tuesday afternoon the first week of summer. We have some free time before dinner in the evening programs that we had for our orientation students. So I decided to wander over to campus and find the education building and check out this woman's office and at least find out where it is. And so I go look at the directory see what floor she's on get up to that floor. And lo and behold, there was like one door partly open and one light on in one office. And it was her. And so I go knock on the door, and so pardon me, you know, Dr so and so, do you have a minute. My response to me was well that's about all I've got, you know I'm trying to finish putting stuff away from from the year and get out of here. My kids are out of school now, and we're leaving on vacation tomorrow morning. And so I tell her who I am I just talked to, you know, Dean so and so, and I'm interested in library science. You know, like, like a true academic, you know time slowed down for this woman right after I said that told her I was interested in library science, she sat down. I sat down, we started talking a little bit. And she told me three things. One of which may well have been true at the time, but by the time I've by the time it was going to do me any good it was not and that was that there was a shortage of people in the field. And there may have been at one time but not by the time I graduated. The other thing she did, and some of you may be old enough to remember, because before we had this internet thing, we had this stuff called paper. And she handed me this brochure, which was nothing more than a regular eight and a half by 11 piece of paper, turn sideways, trifold. And that was the list of accredited programs in the United States in Canada. So this is a big day because I just learned about a new profession, and I learned a new word accreditation. And she hands me this list and says, you know, if you're going to go to school to get a library degree, you want to go to one of these. I go okay. And then the third thing she said was, if you should consider either going north to Missouri, West Oklahoma, or south to Louisiana State, because since there is no accredited program in Arkansas if you go to one of those three programs, they will wave your out of state tuition, because you don't have an in state option. And I said, Oh, okay, that's good to know. And I thanked her and, you know, maybe I was with her all of 15 minutes and went back and did some other stuff and then started looking through this information and thinking about this. And later that evening, and later through that week. And so, you know, plan a had been to be a history professor. So now I was coming up with plan a point one, which was because the other thing she told me was most of these programs were a year long, in and out one year 12 months boom you've got a master's degree. And you can go get a job of which she thought there were plenty. So now plan a point one is go to library school for a year get a job at a university campus, work in the library, get a PhD in history at that university, because I'm still going to be a history professor. Library science or not. So, you know, new plan felt good. Learn some new words started looking at the list and ended up not going to Missouri Oklahoma or LSU. I actually ended up going to a reasonably small school part of the SUNY system State University of New York system in a very small place called Geneseo New York, which is in western upstate New York. And there were more. The campus population was bigger than the community population, but I went there, partly because their curriculum looked somewhat intriguing, and the guy that had run the dorm where I worked when I was a senior at Arkansas was now there. He was working at the warm, while his wife was getting a graduate degree at Geneseo he had been working on his degree at Arkansas. Now it was his wife's turn to get a degree in Geneseo did in fact have a couple of almost nationally recognized degrees. And I plus I had never been that part of the world and I figure you know 12 months what the heck. So I get up there, look around, see part of the country that I've never seen before. So I apply for and get admitted to SUNY Geneseo in their schools library science. I'm not even sure it was library and information science at that point. And this is January of 1974. So it was from when I left Arkansas that summer. So it was September October November December those were the four months that I was not affiliated with the university campus. Now, I worked those four months worked a couple different jobs, and in fact worked for my father, because I had worked for him off and on before in the summers and this and that and the other my father was in the apparel industry he had a factory made women's apparel. And I should say that, you know, sort of lingering there in the background, if you will, a career option had always been he owned his own company, and I was the oldest son. So, you know, option number whatever was always to learn the business and take over my father's company. But I really had no desire to do that. And I can remember, oh, at least three different conversations where, you know, the offer was made. And I told him I wasn't interested. And he still continue to be my father, which shows you, you know, just how nice a guy. He was. Anyway, I worked for him for some months and because I was also living under his rough, I put a lot of money together which was good. And so I was going to go off to Geneseo and I was do this all on my own. So I get up there and get to campus a couple days before classes began and I get registered. And when I had sent my application material in I had mentioned that I had a research assistantship with the history department at Arkansas, and was interested if there was any opportunity like that at Geneseo. So, you know, I get registered, which was a bit of a shock because the out of state tuition was a little more than I had figured. And now I really needed a job because the bank account was a little more depleted than I thought it was going to be. So I go over to the dean's office for the library school and walk in, you know, you know, mid morning and talk to a secretary and I go as the dean here. You know, because I figured he also needed to know who I was because I was obviously going to be one of his more important students. And so the secretary says, well, he's in with another student right now, you know, have a seat when he gets done. He does have a meeting at such and such a time. And, but I think he'll have time to talk to you and I go okay, thanks. 10 minutes later the door opens, student walks out, Dean comes out, I meet the dean we go into his office, tell him who I am blah blah blah. That's the possibility of getting an assistantship. And the dean looks at me and I think he finds my file and takes a look at that. And he looks at me and he said the student who just walked out of here. I go yes. She had been my research assistant. She was here to tell me she had gotten another job and was no longer my research assistant. So go out and the secretary will give you the paperwork because now you're my research assistant. So, you know, either is either being in the right place at the right time, or it was pure dumb luck. I haven't quite figured out what it was, you know, it was almost the same thing at Arkansas with the dean and the and the education woman. So I went out, you know, did the paperwork, and also found out that if you're a graduate assistant at SUNY Geneseo, they wave out of state fees. So, a lot of the money I had given them the day before they gave back to me. And now I figured I could make it, you know, get the degree without having to ask my father for any more money. And admit that defeat, if you will. And the other thing was I got to work with the dean directly. So I kind of got a sense of how an academic department runs. Certainly how a library school runs. And that program was up for accreditation the next year, I was going to be gone by then, but a lot of the paperwork and stuff that's now all automated and put together. I don't say fairly easily. But, you know, systematically was put together by going through file by file and in this and that and the other and was put together by hand. And for some of that data, it was my hands that were putting that information together so I learned about what accreditation was and I learned how serious. These programs took it, which of course became important later on. So, as the expression goes a funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Yeah, it was, you know, I went up there with the idea that, you know, I was going to get in get out learn, you know, the minimum of what I needed to learn and move on, because I was still going to be a history professor. But, you know, the funny thing that happened on the way to that forum was, I kind of enjoyed the courses, and found some of the stuff intriguing, and actually went out of my way, not to take a library history course because heck, I had a master's degree in the field and I could find that stuff out on my own. And besides if I was going to work in the field, you know, there were probably some things I needed to know. You know, then I started thinking, because half of the instructors I had were longtime librarians who had master's degrees but did not have PhDs. And the writing was on the wall that if they had to apply for their job again, they would need a PhD. So, plan, you know, a point two, or better known as plan B, you know, maybe I'll stay in the Academy, maybe I'll teach, but maybe I'll teach this library stuff, instead of history. And so I left Geneseo, and it was also important that I had a chance to work with the dean, because as I mentioned earlier, the job market was very, very tight when I got out. And I got my first job the good old fashioned American way. The library director knew the dean of the library school. And because I had been working with the dean, he was able to recommend me to go down to South Florida. And my first professional position was at Florida Atlantic University. And the problem with that was it was a small school, and they did not have a PhD program in anything, or maybe they had but I nothing I was interested in, nor was there a school with a PhD program in library science anywhere around. So, almost as soon as I got there, I started looking at other opportunities because I either needed to go work somewhere where I could commute and get a PhD in library science or work somewhere where I could make a lot of money over a short period of time and then go to school full time. But remember, this is library science so that second option wasn't going to work very well. So I ended up going from South Florida to Southern California. There was a position open at Cal State Dominguez Hills. And at that time, the P there was only one choice really a PhD program at the University of Southern California, not the current PhD program that's there. But the original LIS program that was at USC. So I get out to California. Start working at Dominguez Hills meet some people in the profession there mentioned I'm going to go to meet some mentioned I'm going to go to USC and everybody says no wait wait wait there's a PhD program UCLA starting a PhD program. You know, more academic rigor there you should you should wait and go to the PhD start your PhD program at UCLA. Well, you know patients and waiting has never been my strong suit. So I started USC. And it was part time. So it was five years, Anthony, actually it was just a little over five years to tell you the truth. But I made a big flow chart when I started in just missed that graduation deadline. But the the interesting thing no part time, let me part one one class a semester. Fall, summer and spring, because it's not like our program. We had a minimum number of courses, and then we did our qualifying and then we spent time working on our dissertation which most people figured was three to four years worth of classwork, and then a couple years for the for the dissertation. But you know long story short, I finished USC. I was on the faculty at UCLA and I was my first teaching position. And I was there as an assistant professor UCLA to shake the hand of the first PhD graduate. They came out of that program. So, you know, another either right place right time or pure dumb luck in not waiting around for UCLA, because they. I don't know enough about them currently to say this is still true but they could be a little dysfunctional every now and then. In any event so I started UCLA, I'm there for seven years. And then UCLA, being part of the UC system was very very research oriented, and not only just research oriented but very theoretical research oriented, and that was not particularly where my interests and publications lay. So, in 1988, they gave me an opportunity to look for other opportunities, which was a nice way of saying they fired my ass. I did not get tenure at UCLA and, you know, a PhD in history was starting to look a little better. Although that was not what I did you know I looked around started applying for different things. And thank goodness, was a position open for fall of 88 at a state school in the Bay Area. I was originally known as San Jose State University applied for that job got that job. September of. So we started in September of 1968 September of 1988. I hit campus at San Jose, and they haven't been able to get rid of me since. So, you know that's that's been it been some ups there's been some downs. And again I still don't know if it's, you know just pure dumb luck or being in the right place at the right time or combination of both but it's a very kind and helpful people around right when I needed them and have used those people. As the time came and have been trying to do the same with other students and faculty junior faculty. So Michelle's got a question about how I got involved with special libraries, you know, you know, how the way all this stuff fits together is is almost eerie Michelle on in with Dean Robert Hayes of the UCLA library school. He's done some of the group interviews and it was now just hazing myself in his office and he asked me point blank could I teach special libraries. And thank God I at least knew what what they were. And they did not have anybody full time on the faculty, and that had been a big wrap against that program. And so I'm sitting there looking at him, thinking to myself, the answer to this question is not. And I think what I said to him was, well probably not in the fall quarter, but if you give me a little while, I'll be able to put something together. And yeah, that was it and I taught I taught the special libraries in the spring quarter of UCLA 10 weeks. We were in the classroom. I think three weeks and did field visits, seven weeks, because I had no idea what the hell I was doing by the time I left UCLA and still teaching special libraries. We were in the classroom 10 weeks. And the students still had to do field trips but they had to like organize themselves into groups and go do the field trips on their own because I had too much to cover and not enough class time to do it. So it was, you know, just a complete turnaround. But, you know, again, so I get this job at UCLA on the special libraries guy. I'm in my office, maybe the second week of school at a guy wanders into my office. And he was the architecture and urban planning librarian and they had they had a separate library at UCLA and he introduces himself and he says my name's John Green, you know, blah, blah, blah. I'm an SLA member. I understand you're teaching the special libraries class now. The local Southern California chapter at that time had liaison positions for faculty from USC and UCLA. He said, obviously that'll be you now. The board meets next Tuesday at Cal Tech. I'll drive. And that's, you know, that's actually then how I got involved with SLA, you know, the first part of the story was how I got involved with special libraries. And I'm on the board and I think pretty much well maybe not Dara, but I think everybody else knows me well enough to know that you put me in a group of people, and I cannot keep my mouth shut. So I started going to the board is the UCLA rep, and three years later that was running for president of Southern California chapter, which, which I did not win, which I did not win. But because somebody had been around forever and was far more deserving, won that election. So next year they figured out that they ran me unopposed, and I was vice president to her president. And that's how I got involved with with SLA and stuff. So it's just been, you know, one positive experience after another, and wouldn't change any of it. And I'm, you know, one of those people that claims that I have never done a day's worth of work because I love what I'm doing too much.