 This week on the movement strength and play podcast. We are talking about who to trust and Timbo I can think of two people that come straight off the top of my head One is you know anyway We'll get into that is the meat of that in a second And you can set the tone in a minute as to why would we even have that as a topic of conversation for the podcast? But before we get stuck into that just tell them about the podcast sponsors And the special gift they have for you to come and join us I'm absolutely buzzing for this podcast once we've had some great podcast sponsors on in the past Jackie And these guys the Spartan race team are joining the ranks Of very kindly sponsoring the podcast and not only are they sponsoring the podcast, but they are giving away Free spots at the Spartan race. We are going to be doing the Spartan Midlands on the 16th and 17th of July and Spartan have very kindly gifted us some free places. So you have an opportunity to come and do it with us What's it? What's an opportunity to get out your comfort zone come and do something or you might be a seasoned obstacle course race And you like you know what we've done this one before right is a little story We did a tough one a few years ago and there's a couple people turned up like proper pros at it And there's a few people there that were like European Name she was like I don't know I've done like 25,000 of these I'm actually I'm doing your one and then I'm going off and like So but if you want to Excuse if you want a reason to kind of come and do something with a few other people have a bit of a laugh We've got a Spartan race for you Set yourself a little child one of the things that we do when we first I didn't cast dates It was like Strength training for this five in the urban jungle was the the notion that you came up with Tim wasn't it? But just this idea of like can you be strong outside of him like the challenge the enjoyment I'll I'll enjoy the running part of it as well but the can you Use your muscle-up skills actually or your pull-up skills or you have human flag things or whatever else that you're learning with You can't say train can you actually go and do that in? It's still not the real world is it because when some monkey bars are you throwing a spear or whatever it is that you're doing on the Obstacles of the Spartan race, but it's a bit more like Get from there over there through that thing and like you've got to use your body a little bit more Onaturel rather than gripping. Can you pass me the chalk for the Tape on them to help me with the grip says there's none of that It's raw and it's going to be it's going to be some good fun and we're going for that In that as you can imagine with the true Notion of the movement strength and play podcast there will be some fun along the way There are a level for everybody. So there's a 5k. There's a 10k There's a 21k which is like half marathon and the details will be in the show notes. The website is race.spartan.com But to get the three Free not three. There's 50 free spots available You've got to jump through a couple of little hoops because you know, you got it You got to earn it and you got to show prove your worth and that is You need to take you need to join on social media on Instagram You need to take a video or photo of you training or preparing for your Spartan race You need to tag Spartan. So at Spartan you need to use the hashtag Spartan race And then you also need to tag us school of calisthenics and then very importantly to make sure that we see it Send that to us send that post that video that picture to us in a direct message in a DM and then we will authorize the fact that you've passed all of those those criterias of the correct tags and whatnot and then give you the code You can then just go book on to the whichever race it is that you want to do on the Spartan website And that's is how you bag your one of 50 free race places with me and Timbo be quick because they're gonna go I'm glad you're here Jack because you are you are so much better than I am at Conveying the details of these things. I read the email. I read the email Right, let's get into who you should trust this isn't a self-promotion This is just generally helping you to navigate the minefield of social media and working out who actually knows the hell What the hell they're doing? I thought I thought it was just a case of that to pick between me or you Yeah, probably yeah Who's got more credibility? Well, let's dive into it. So sit back and enjoy us having a waffle about who you can trust Roll that jingle Listen players You're listening to the movement strength and play podcast by the school of calisthenics here are your hosts Tim and Jackal so Timbo the I've only just set the scene of something of The conversation I had the other day and this was just like a bit of a realization for me And then actually I've been seeing a cranial osteopath. Thanks to Cole Clayton, he said I need to have someone work on the head. It's been amazing crazy and I then had the conversation with him and he's like this old guy that's like Seeing it all right. He's like Yoda and he just like messes with your head I can trust him because he's like he's got a white coat on it's like Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's like just the way he talks. She like this guy knows it. Anyway, anyway So and he was like he was laughing along with this notion that Had a conversation with them. I mean it was it was Mrs. Jaco. I was having a conversation with the missus and she was This is gonna sound a bit too. She was talking about conversation. She had with her friend But just stay with me. But basically they had some like pain in their ankle from running, right? And I said to her I was like, you know where with all these different people that we've listened to on the podcast and how How will you start to appreciate the? What's causing the pain in that ankle? I was said to her I was like, well, I I could I said to be fair to I was being a bit hard on myself I was like I could probably have a bit of a decent like have a look at her and have a bit of a decent guess It may be some stuff that might be going on. I was like, but where I'm at with everything is I'm like There's so much that it speaks to Poe Nixon. They tell it might be something wrong with the liver Well, he speaks it's awesome. We're on the brain or eyes or this or that and I'm like the more Just the fact that I've just the more I've delved into all this stuff I'm like it could be anything could be anywhere Don't know where to start and and then and then I and then so then I go I don't know anything and then and we're not saying that we're dead But there's but I quite like that openness of just being like like I I'd prefer to feel like that Than be like, oh, I know everything and I know the answer to this because actually that's one thing I'd probably say is a starting point of if someone thinks that they know it all I wouldn't trust them Because you can't There was a great you're like this great you like an Einstein quote great Einstein quote heard the other day Um, what do you say it said the universe is under no obligation to reveal its secrets to us Good I don't know if that is that relevant. Is it relevant to the conversation? I like the quote We can well we can sort of if you know what I mean, let's shoehorn in I agree meaning basically that like no, we can't know everything is basically what that was that that sprung to mind for with well, I've During I don't know when I read it now a while ago Adam grants think again if someone tells me what books to read I tell them to rethink again because it The subtitle to that is the power of knowing what we do not know And to start with knowing what you don't know and being comfortable with that you need to be comfortable with being wrong So it's kind of like this idea of just like questioning everything taking a scientist mindset And that's what scientists would generally do is they're open to kind of testing a hypothesis to see what happens And well what we have in the current kind of let's say the fitness landscape is a lack of scientists Now some people and I'm going to pitch this as a spectrum because I think there's an important range of how we can kind of Think about where someone is that we can trust on this spectrum. So Physiotherapy you've got lots of people at the moment I'm going to take physios because they're quite vocal around exercise prescription And it's evidence-based you cannot do that unless it's in the literature And that means it can't be just 12 people from a crap university somewhere that like did this thing It's got to be a certain population size with a well-designed methodology And the results have got to be pretty like nailed on So don't do anything less in literature on the other side you've got Old like whoever Do you know what happened then there was a load of names of people that I think of running through my mind I didn't want to say any of them because I didn't want to call them out and get in trouble with people So let's call it John Smith because there's we're going to keep it steady It was well good. Whatever it is that you want to do individually But has got no real kind of like experience or expertise other than What he's done himself Now those people are good teachers right to some people but they are so for those people that aren't into academia research And this is I'm not massively in statistics, but n refers to a sample or population size So n of a thousand is like 1000 people showed these results And therefore we can have some confidence because it was a big sample size n equals 1 is means that works for you and nobody else basically So if you find that you've got and social media is an absolute minefield for this If there's loads of people who are really good at what they do in their own practice Who then Assumed that that gives them the authority and credibility to tell other people that that's what they should do And for me that and that brings a level of credibility Because you learn through experiences that you can share with the people for sure. That's part of it But there has to be There's a central point I think where you are not completely bound by the evidence And that's kind of the art and science of training and coaching And but you've also through your experiences taken what you've learned from a practice perspective, but also from a Principles perspective let's call it and you've got to try that out on other people than just yourself Or maybe a few people, but you've actually gone and tested your your hypothesis And that's where you get people that are experienced coaches like who've been in the game for a long time Like you've had time to go out and try things and see them through see the results Learn a little bit more try something a bit different and I just think that that we have to Just because someone can put together a nice reel and they've got a big following I've got a big book bear about this at the moment that social media does social media following Does not determine credibility Like in terms of actual like it's that's not the game Instagram algorithm is not going You're a really credible source. So I'm going to promote your content to the people It's going to be like your reel has got the right number of right music on it It's got this this this and certain people engage with it. So it's like I think it's becoming really difficult to seek out people who you can actually trust and I'm not talking about calisthenics Like talk about nutrition talk about Whatever but like I just yeah, sorry. I feel like I've just offloaded some stuff there. No, it's good. I've got I've got something for you in that area of the The sort of evidence-based literature stuff as well just to also consider And or two things one very small one is like if all you ever do is evidence-based stuff Like you're never going to find out anything new You're about five years behind Yeah, you've got to do some there's got to be Like well, maybe you're not the person that needs to be doing the new stuff But someone somewhere has got to be something that isn't evidence-based to like find out whether something new is going to be Better than what we used to do Everything that we do now was once an idea that somebody thought I'm going to try this and it caught on And then suddenly an academic somewhere went let's count some beans and see what happens if we actually try and Understand what's going on I've got a third thing actually and it's more it's more to do of like um I think meditation is a great example of this so monks have been meditating for x number of thousand years Now that we've managed to scan their brains and show that it's actually worth doing Then people say that we should do it and it's like But why did we need to have that because the monk said that it was good to do and he's benefited from it for thousand and because this is something around like that you have stuff you can trust if it's been there forever You can probably trust it Because stuff that you can't trust like you know if it's not the truth it it dwindles out So stuff that's been around for a long time is is one thing um But back to my back the the main point I wanted to make around the the sort of evidence-based research stuff and a good example for this I think is um Patrick McKeown for the Oxford Vantage you've ever been on the podcast a couple of times he's who taught me um To become a breathing coach myself He's gonna share a bebon soon aren't you I'm parking my camper van Patrick on your front lawn. He gave me a side window He gave me permission. He said I can park on his front lawn. I'm assuming he's got quite a big pan That's a different story. Anyway, that's a different story I'll have to do a debrief podcast of like my trip smiling buzz it That'll be the podcast of the year. Keep your eyes on my stories Around the 25th of august the absolute fanboy. We're digressing where this is um That's a total engine offline chat. I know. I know. Yeah carry on basically I'm going to visit patrick in ireland as part of an event in august and never meet heroes jacko That's what they say, you know, I'm scared for you. I know I'm scared for him meeting me I am too. He you're here. You're his hero Right, so but what he's right what what he's done is gone and looked at the 20 years of research that Researchers scientists that people have been doing on Breathing and a lot within the sporting realm and then taken all of their conclusions all their things that they say work And then formulated a framework and exercises that fit all of that research and then gone Simplified it in a way that you can coach it. There you go. There's the thing. It's it's not If which is very different to me going I've developed This mouthpiece or I've developed this training protocol And I've also paid for a research study to be done on it to prove that it works And then you should now this is evidence-based. It's like, yeah, but it's it's biased because you bloody did the thing A big gatory scandal in that wasn't that they were like paying for research It happens to turn out that ice-tongue sports drinks are good. Who would have thought it? And but there's so many people we do need to You did this in the the other podcast that we do Speaking to people out there like we need and this is to all of us line. I include myself We need to open our eyes to what is What is actually like Fair what is what is what is real? What is what is truth and not and you need we need to look someone me saying This is based on science Like that just that's just a phrase. I've said like is it actually and then what was the actual thing done? And now most I appreciate everyone listening bar probably like 0.1 percent are going to be like, yeah, I ain't got time I'm not going to sit down on google scholar and start reading Uh research papers, but it's it's just to have that appreciation that we do have to question Or at least look at if you're interested rather than just following stuff blindly of going Well, if this if we're having that evidence-based question like who funded the study No one does research for free someone has to fund it and and and it's worth knowing If it was about breakfast cereals if it was Nestle Then you got to take it with a a pinch of salt or probably a pinch of sugar But there are some people that are wise to this this game as well And they'll often quote a research paper and I can find a research paper to prove any point I want to make it's like it's called bias Right, so often what research people would do is they'll go and search all the literature Ignore the papers which don't agree with them to find the paper which does agree with them And then they'll put a paper in the journal of Finish hands and elbow signs or whatever it is like some kind of relatively obscure journal I don't even know if that one exists And and it will be one of those things about a sample of 20 people But because it say oh in research has shown that just because it's a published article There's this there's a massive kind of spectrum of like Of quality of research and of publication rankings in fact And so I just think and and that is like oh, okay. What's in the research? It depends like not all research is equal and this I appreciate you're sat there go Well, who do I trust and I'm going that is exactly the point Ask that question because if you go into social media world or whoever and just go is this person credible Should I be trusting them because What we're doing by investing our attention in people and giving them potentially financial Or that we're paying them for services or support is we are We need to be careful that those people are going to be able to give us the right support from a level of expertise Because if you buying a training program from somebody who has never programmed for anybody before apart from themselves Like that's that to me is something I should be going Okay, well, are you the right person for me? And maybe you are if you're an absolute beginner or you're doing a certain thing and this is outside of kind of sense Right, so it's not kind of pigeonhole it in I would just like to kind of like say to people do your research Around these sorts of things find out what they've done before Because there's so much stuff out there and Yes, it might take a little bit of work and but please don't pick based on social media following And we've got a relatively big social media following that but that's not Um, there's people with bigger social media followers and there's also really good people who've got less social media Followings than we have Um, I'm asking people to just do a little bit of diligence in a very tricky space of knowing who has actually got the quality qualifications experience and right Mo uh, what's the right word? Best intentions, let's say Yeah I've never just gone and pointed everyone towards what we're doing is I try to be one of those people Ross Hedgeley isn't one of those people a friend of the School of Personics like Well based in both practice and research Yeah, we've had loads of loads of amazing guests on the podcast that tick tick those boxes I think some of like for me I think of um, just a sort of final take home from me would be if I was trying to simplify it I'm thinking about like how long has that person been doing what they're doing? So how long has it stayed about for um, what experience and it goes in hand to hand with that But you're talking about what experiences is that personal that organization? Got in terms of who is it actually been working for and what sort of results are they generating from that? and then my third one is like if Is it like joined up with other people's thinking that you already trust? So it might be in a different area or different something different but you're like, okay, that's new But actually their their their principles are aligned with these other people over here That I do trust and do think that their work is good And and that for me if they're ticking those three boxes, it's like, uh, it's let's get them on the podcast Yeah, yeah Well, you said before as well like it's also you don't necessarily always have to be an expert in the thing yourself Like you said I think you said before Alex Ferguson was not an amazing footballer But he's a hell of a football club manager like Yeah, um So that's the irony. I was gonna the example I was gonna say actually was around Football managers make me it always gets me. It's like right um Multi-billion pound business Um Right, you've got no experience whatsoever other than you played football You've got no experience to be like you've never been a manager before. Um, why don't you be it because you were the best player Yeah, Martin Johnson did that for england didn't last that long No, no in no other like business world Would you just get give someone the top job? With them having zero experience of it at all because they were quite good at it Yeah Anyway, I hope that's not come across to run. It wasn't supposed to be but I just look out um onto the We like your ransom anyway. We like I don't know but these are the things that go into my mind You know the other thing just to close it goes on my mind's day I was gonna put this on instagram but it didn't Um, what is it? This is completely unrelated to who to trust apart from maybe it's about threat perception Um, what do you think about this right? What is it about the human? Behavioral system social behavior where it is impossible to walk side by side Down the street with somebody that you don't know So if you accidentally kind of come out of a shop and somebody's like at the same Like level with you there's then this kind of like strange game of either do I speed up or slow down? But I'm not staying the same pace. I'm thinking of like two magnets like It's exactly like that. It's like it's like they can't they can't But one meter in front or behind is okay like that's safe So I'm like it's my brain kind of going we don't know this person We can't possibly be all like what but I just thought that's quite that interesting sort of social dynamic It happened to me today and I put my foot down. I'm like I'm getting in front of you But I don't know whether she was also kind of put the gas on and we were then going to be in a more more complicated situation Having a walking race down the street. I get my hip waddle on and all of a sudden I think I'm going to the olympics I wonder whether when someone's side side by year and you're not talking to them So you're not turning your head and you probably can't actually see them in your peripheral that well that that that is that threat threat Perception being like because you don't know them Is it like I need to have them in my vision or anything needs to be far enough ahead of them that they're not a problem Or the only time that we ever like yeah, or we only ever because if I go forwards or behind me So that threat perception you would think would be like worse Is it that we only ever kind of walk closer to people in a social situation? So if we don't know them we feel like we should talk but we don't want to because we don't know them So we just like avoid it. It happened to me today And I just thought I was I was thinking about and I thought this is just an interesting thing of human behavior that I found quite entertaining You know, so I'll round up the podcast with that little little thought for people Well, how do you know who to trust not somebody's walking the same pace as you? Either you need to speed up or slow down because we can't carry on like this not working Next time that happens to somebody people are going to think of me and they're going to laugh Because they'll be like this is this weird thing of like do I slow down or do I speed up? I'm typically going to go faster. I don't like to walk slowly so If you come up if you don't know me and you find yourself walking alongside when you come to spartan You better slow down because I'm going to race you I'm gonna I'm going to throw the curveball in there and say like Say hello to them That's the curveball Well, yes. I mean that's that is if you want to make that situation more awkward That is definitely one thing you could try to smile at them. Do you know what's do you know like the I did a little experiment Um, you know, I made a mate of mine used to do an experiment. Um When uh, when we were in sixth form he was like he'd been keeping a log I think more mentally that whenever he went to the toilet the urinals and the men's He'd always have a little look either side of him and and he came up with a theory Where's this going? Where is this going? I know it's it's I'm coming back. I'm coming back around the size He reckoned he could make a judgment because he'd seen he'd had a sneaky look at that many people's Weenus Um, he could buy their body language the way someone would hold themselves whilst pissing in the urinal He could he could make a judgment on that whether they had a small medium or large shlong Anyway, that's not in a journal that one is it that's not been published. That was no n n was quite large on that literally my my social experiment the other day was around um It was when I was out on a big run and I was like, um I was smiling at everyone trying to like get trying to make eye contact with them and smile at them And do you know what every single person did? ignored you smile Of course they did people love to smile Yeah, but and you can't it's it's almost like you can't You can't not reciprocate it I mean I had like I had a guy it was actually it was when it was when I was when I did snowden twice actually and I'd come down There's this guy looks I love it. I love how you put it. It's when I said snowden twice not just you could just said I didn't know he's a snowden But you had to get in there twice then didn't you? That would be big dick But that would have been a lie It would have been a lie because I did it twice anyway I remember I was reminding me because as we're coming into clamburis But by the the train track where everyone takes the bleeding train off It's like what you do anyway, he was sound bench and look he was getting ready to go to work He was like rolling a fag and he looked super miserable and I didn't think I was going to get him But like I just I said I said hey And he looked up and I smiled and I thought it was just going to give me like dagger eyes, but you smile back You smile back. It's true Well think of the people that you might meet if you just if you started intentionally What people could do is actually start intentionally walking the same pace as people and say hello and see what happens You might meet some interesting people. I reckon some people will be it'll be 50 50 So if you come and join us for the Spartan race You're probably going to get in a running and a walking race with Tim And then you'll probably get a nice smile and a hello potentially from me. Give me one back Yeah, I'll be running in front for about 3k and then you'll probably overtake me because I'll be Hang in And right very very slowly We were gonna try to keep this one short. We have big that was my favorite part of the podcast Yeah, we always save the best bit for the end. Um, we get the importance. Well the Yeah, the meat out of the way and then we we can freestyle the end right Um, do that thing that jack has said about Pog about spartan and yeah come join us. Yeah, it tells you all things 50 spaces be quick tag spartan at spartan Use hashtag spartan race and then send it to the dm and send it to us We're school of calisthenics if you didn't know and make yourself look well spartan When you're doing speeders on if you want not compulsory, please Um, there's some things my eyes can't unsee Um, right until next week keep exploring your physical potential with movement strength and play class dismiss