 by what they've read and seen since. He's grabbing essentially what they remember. Everybody should help. Hang on, let's see how our tinker toys are all put together here. Have we got any kind of an audio level? Yeah, if you just want to give me a little bit of... Glenn, would you just say a couple things? Okay, first of all, the phone was ringing, right? Okay, the way, really the way I became involved in this was started out in the after early afternoon around probably 1.30 in the afternoon. And I received a telephone call from the Marcher Warrie officer out at the Walker Air Force Base, Army Airfield Base. And he was requiring, inquiring about what would be the smallest possible casket that we could get that would be hermetically sealed. And at that time, I know that we had used like the fourth feet and caskets, we had used those before, but I thought they also made them in a 3-6. So he wanted to know if we had any in stock. And I said, no, but if I can make a call to Amarillo, I can have him in by 7 o'clock the next morning on the truck. So he said, I'll get back to you. And that was the first contact that I had with the base. And then what? Then he called back probably 45 minutes or so later. And he said, I need to ask you some more questions. He said, in case something like this should happen, he said, we need to know what your preparations are for the bodies that had been laying out in the elements. And he said, we need to know also what if your treatments of the bodies are the remains, what could you do to them? And if your treatments, would it change any of the chemical breakdown of the tissues, the blood? Would it make a difference? And I said, I thought probably it would. And I said, of course, he knew exactly how we would treat those bodies because we have an outline from them and what we really have to do. I think he already at that point knew exactly what we would have to do. Did he disclose to you what he had? No. I told him, I said, if you have a problem, if you have something you don't really know what to do about it, let me come out. And I'll try to help you do whatever you want to do. And he said, no. He said, let's start again with, you were saying that you told him that you can come out and take care of what he had right here. Won't you pick up from that point again? So anyway, he said, well, we don't really have anything. He said, we're sitting here thinking in case we should get involved in something like this, what would be our preparation? What should we do? Then I went through. I said, do you really want to know how we would do it? Well, yes, we would like to know. So that's when I explained to him that we would have the vats that we would fill up with formaldehyde solution with water. And we put the bodies in them, let them stay there for 24 hours and then take them out. And then we would pack the bodies in. It would be a sawdust and really a lime, what we would pack them in, then wrap them in the plastics, bodies that were badly decomposed. If there was tissue, deep tissue, we would have to do it hyperdomically with needles to get to the deep tissue. Then we would have to aspirate the cavities if the cavities hadn't already ruptured and then put some cavity fluid in those. I said that's kind of a normal procedure. Now, at one point you finally offered to take care of it for them. Well, I offered to three times, yeah. Can you review what that conversation was at that point? You mean when I offered to take care of them? Yeah. He said, well, we don't really, right at this time, we don't really need your assistance. But he said, in case something like this should happen, then he said we would be prepared and we would know what to do. Then we got back on to the subject of maybe not damaging any of the chemicals, compounds, or anything with the bodies or tissues, whatever. How would you pick bodies up like that and what would you do not to contaminate any of it? Didn't this begin to seem a little strange to you at that point? Well, I thought maybe what happened, they might have had a VIP or some officer and something that happened. They didn't want to keep it quiet and they probably wanted to do it themselves and not be involved with the civilian and the businesses or anything. So, after these conversations, you were curious and you went on out to the base as I understand it. Can you review that? No, I didn't go out to the base. Yeah, I was curious, but I didn't go out to the base probably a couple of hours later and I'd got an emergency call. There was an airman that was injured in an accident and I took the airman to the base. He rode in the ambulance with me and I took him out to the emergency room and that's the way I became really involved at the base. I didn't go out just because I was curious. What was the sequence from the time you picked up the airman and just described to me? Well, I got the call, I left the funeral home and the airman went to the scene of the accident, picked the airman up. I did not place him on a stretcher because he had an head injury in the nose. I think his nose was fractured. So, I did some minor first aid and then he sat in the front seat with me all the way to the base. Then he walked into the emergency room. I didn't have to take him in. They didn't bring out a gurney or anything. He just walked in on his own. Then I never did see him after that. Then I had this friend that I wanted to talk to and see. This is a lieutenant nurse that I knew quite well that had only been there approximately, only been commissioned and been there to sign. This was her first assignment out at the air base. I wanted to talk to her. I was going down the hall. The first thing, the lieutenant that I wanted to see was coming out of one room, going across the hall to the other. She noticed it in me. She said, how did you get in here and what are you doing in here? She said, you better get out in her. She said, would you please leave and get out of here and hurry? Then I turned around and she went on into the other room. Then at about the time I turned around, there was another officer who said, wait a minute. I said, it looks like you had a crash. He said, I see there's some, and the ambulance is out there. I see a lot of recognition. Where was the crash? He said, there wasn't any crash. Then he said, just wait a minute. He said, wait a minute. I stood there for a minute. He turned around and evidently he missed the way for somebody else to come up because there was another officer coming out. He said, this man says there was a crash out at the base. He said he was inquiring about our crash. This was when I encountered, he was a red-headed officer and very nasty, very brough. He said, you did not see any crash. There was not any crash. He said, you get the hell out of here and you didn't see anything and you don't talk to anybody. He said, you're going to get in a lot of trouble. I said, look, I'm a civilian and the damn thing you can do to me about it. He said, somebody might be picking your bones out of the sand. That's when he made the remark there. Then there was a black sergeant that was standing beside him. He said, yeah, but he would make better dog food for our dogs because I didn't understand that. My father happened to be an old trapper and for hobby and everything. I said, my father uses guys like you for bait and these cow traps. Then there was two MPs that joined me right on and took me outside and each held me by my elbows and they escorted me back to the ambulance and followed me all the way back to the funeral home. Now as you were entering the hospital you saw something in three trucks. Yeah, because usually where I parked there was three field ambulances parked in the area where I usually parked and we'll be back up to the ramps. So I just pulled up to the side in front of those and parked out in front in the air and I got out and walked in. So when I passed, when I got up and went up the steps and up the ramp and I was walking, going into the emergency room I noticed that the doors were open and what was odd about it there was an MP standing beside each one of the vehicles in the back standing there and the doors were open. Naturally I was curious and I just happened to look in and that's when I saw some debris that looked like parts of a plane or something that they hadn't had a crash because I've seen them do this a lot of times bring in pieces and the old ambulances in. Can you describe the debris? I noticed in two of the ambulances there was some debris that was probably two and a half to three feet long and probably high that was propped up on the side of the ambulance there. They were kind of in the shape of maybe like a half a canoe. They were like the front part of a canoe and it looked like it might be aluminum but it looked more like it was the metal looked more like stainless steel that had been heated. It was blue, kind of a bluish tent to it. What was odd about it it looked like around the curved part in the front of the canoe there was some designs or something that kind of reminded me of maybe some Egyptian signs or whatever and it was probably about three inches and high and probably the length of what the wreckage I saw it looked like it was the length and the same thing was in the other ambulance too. I saw practically the same thing. The pieces that were practically the same size and the insignias looked like whatever that might be was part of the wreckage. How did Nate, how did your friend feel about what she saw? Well I didn't know really until until the next day and I wanted to, I called out I kept trying to get a hold of her and eventually I was curious and I wanted to know what was going on and so I called out the next day and then probably around 11.30 and she said I know you've been trying to get a hold of me but I haven't been available and she said why don't you meet me at the officers club if you have time meet with the officers club and we'll have lunch and I want to talk to you. The funeral home we had it and at that time we had some of the businesses there had an associate membership to the officers club and our funeral home had that membership and also had a card to identify myself and what business that I was you know, associated with so I had no problem one time I'd go to the base all I had to do a lot of times it was in the evening I'd have to stop and sign the vistas and get a vistas pass and then turn it in when I left but it was no problem going out there so I went on out and met her tell me about lunch well we both ordered I'm not sure remember what we ordered but it was just a light lunch but she was so upset she looked like she was in shock was what she really talked like and looked like and she said I said well I was just curious the only reason I wanted to talk to you was curious on what happened and she said well you won't believe it and she says I don't believe it either but she said I got in a lot of trouble on this thing probably I'm not real sure about this but she said then she pulled out of a little purse or a little pocketbook whatever she had there she gave me a little diagram that she had that she had drawn some some figures of some arms and face and so on she told me that this is what was in those that it was a crash it wasn't an airplane but they didn't know what it was at that time these were bodies she said we have three bodies there was three bodies two of them were very mutilated one looked like it might have walked out that it might have lived a little while and she explained they were like three and a half feet tall two of the bodies were you couldn't identify much because they were practically destroyed and it looked like maybe that they might have been a predatory animal or something might have been doing some damage on the bodies too how does she describe your head and your hands? well she said the head the little drawings that I had the way she explained it and the way she drew it the heads were somewhat larger than a human head the hands were long no thumbs very delicate fingers at the end of the underside at the tip of each finger was a pad like maybe a little pad but it looked like the skin had maybe little suction cups on those on the no fingernails on the hands the head the lips were very just a long narrow more or less not full lips like we would have in most of our people but very fine line very fine lips there was no teeth inside of the mouth it was kind of like a real a a gums maybe it was she said explained it was almost as hard as if it was rawhide maybe at that the years there was only two small offices on each side of the head looked like a couple of small lobes that might some way that might cover both of those but there was not a protruding ear and also that the nose there was only two small offices in the nose it was there was really no nose that was the convex it was all just flush with the the face was she emotional about all this? very much so she would have to stop and drink water every once in a while and also she never touched a meal all the time we were talking in an hour and a half that we were there she never touched a meal any other demonstrations of emotion indications of how she was upset? well just you know every once in a while she'd go like this you know and ring in her hands and she said there was the most most I've never been so horrified in my life I've never seen anything so gruesome in my life I've never smelt anything that smelt worse than my life and she told me that when I saw her she was leaving the room to go to the bathroom because she was deathly ill and was going to throw up did she recognize any of the doctors by the examining the body? she told me she said I don't I asked her that question which of the doctors and she said I don't know that she said I don't know that and I knew them and that was her answer so but she said she walked in the room and they said hey we need you you need to help us and that was the way she became involved and then she got ill the doctors also became very ill they would have to do a little examination then they'd have to leave and go sit down and then they would come back and do a little bit more it was that bad after your conversation with her at lunch can you describe how you were unable to see her again and how you learned the well yeah we'd visited a while and then I had to get back to the funeral home go back to work but then I never did see her after that and I called out the next day to see how she was feeling see what and they told me that she wasn't available then I wouldn't be available that day I called the next day and they told me that she'd been transferred and it was rather odd because she'd only been at the base less than three months that was her on commission less than three months and that was her first assignment so it was rather odd that she would be transferred out you know within three months so I guess you got a letter then about two weeks probably two weeks at least two weeks could have been a little longer but I know it was at least two weeks I got a I got a letter addressed to me at Glen Dennis at the Ballard Field Home she didn't sign I didn't have any returned address or anything on it but inside of the letter there was just a note she said I don't have time to write I will write later this is my APO number and that was that was the extent of it so then I wrote back to her and asked her more or less how you know how she was feeling and why the sudden transfer and I was hoping that she wasn't in any trouble it was just a short note I really didn't go into a lot of detail or anything then probably three weeks or probably a month after that then I got the letter that I had mailed to her it was return it was return and also it's on then red printing it said deceased and that's the last time I ever heard or heard anything about it then well probably then I went out to the base few days later and I was talking to one of the nurses and I said you know whatever happened to the lieutenant and she said well the rumor is that we heard that she was killed with five other nurses in a training mission in a plane crash and that was it no indication where? well it was in London England she said in the note that she said to me that she was in London the station in London and that was it that's the last time I ever heard do you believe that she's dead? no I don't think so after all that's happening and after you know threatening me and everything I doubt very seriously that she was I would hope not what would you like to say to her if she happened to see this? well if she happened to see it it was like you know if she wants to talk if she feels like I would like to hear from her yes see what's been going on in her life and why she wasn't able to contact me if she you know feels like it it's not true for me you were in trouble okay what happened there then the next day after I was there when I had the problem with the officer and the black man I was told my father was contacted by our Sheriff George Wilcox which was a very close friend of my father they were very good friends and he called to see if my father was home because he wanted to come out and talk to my father and he did so and he told my father that there was a black sergeant from the base that came to the his office was inquiring about who my parents were my mother and my father if I had any brothers or sisters you know wanted to know what my personal family who they were and where they were George said that he didn't he knew I had some family but he didn't know where they were or anything else so anyway he told my father that he did contact my father and he told my father that he thought I might be in some trouble and but he didn't they evidently didn't explain why I was in trouble so you know the first thing my father did was get in his car and come to the funeral home he said we had to talk because he and I were very close we were real good friends best friend I ever had was my father he said I've got to talk he said if you're in trouble we've got to do something about it and I said I'm not in trouble he said well you are he said George Wilcock told me that you were in a lot of trouble and that you got involved in something that you had no business getting involved in and that you could be in a lot of trouble and I said so I told my father the story and he's the only man that I've ever told a story to until I talked to Stan Friedman and to you people and that's it and I did tell my father what the story was of course it was unbelievable for him but then he became very upset and he wanted to go shoot a few people and all that because they did threaten my life and you know and they so that was the way my father heard about it and that was the extent of my family and he never would tell him who my brother I had a brother that was a fighter pilot there at that time and I had three sisters and one of them was a nurse but I he would never tell him anything and so he didn't tell the sheriff or anybody else because the sheriff was supposed to call him back and give him the names and where they were at and he wouldn't do it Let's get back to your friend did she express an opinion as to what she thought these these things were did she think they came well she the only remark that she ever made was that they definitely weren't humans as we know humans but they could be from another planet or the doctors were explaining this that they couldn't be from our planet they had to be an alien or had to be something else but not in our planet she had a phrase to describe how they looked to her do you remember they were telling me like little black china well she said that well of course they were you know first thing she said they were black they were just as black as they could be but probably laying out in the elements in July and Roswell with 105 to 110 temperature every day and 80 degrees or so at night I mean that's not, that wouldn't be in common because we picked up a lot of cheap orders of people that have been found dead that's laying in the desert you know for days and getting marauded snakes or whatever and they do turn you know as black as they can and I know exactly what they were talking about because with the smell and the odor being so drastic because this is a very unpleasant situation you know let's talk about their eyes how did she describe their eyes of course their eyes were set back into the skull oh and it was a remarkable I thought it was interesting also that she said their skulls the doctor said their skull bone structure wasn't like ours it wasn't actually a bone it was probably a real heavy cartilage it looked more or less like a newborn baby the skull was very pliable you could mash on the skull and it would you know it would give and so that the bone structure it wasn't bones not like our bones it was our skull and everything what about the bones in the hands and arms? very fine very delicate the arm bones they liked the radial and the and in the arm that it was so fine that he doubted if they could lift you know she said they doubted if anyone in that size in the arms that that could lift 50 pounds on the earth or anywhere else you know they doubted but she said what the one that hadn't been related to a great extent it reminded them of a real small ancient Chinese person no hair at all in a very very delicate skin fact he said the skin would look like they could almost see through it almost transparent why don't you give me a paragraph on the ears and the nostrils the ears like I think I stated to you that the ears there was a couple of small orifices one on top of the other with two little lobe flaps one over the other they didn't really know how those if they had any significance how they worked or what they wasn't I mean they didn't go into that the nose was only a couple of very small offices holds right there just above the lip line but it had there wasn't anything covered in it and it was just like two small indentations there and that was it said it was very unusual does anyone else talk about the hands the hands the hands well there was one hand there was there was one hand that evidently that wasn't attached to the arm she said that where she got sick and left the room was that this doctor had the long force up and picked the hand up and turned it over and that's when they noticed that there wasn't any thumb none of them had none of the bodies had any thumbs or anything that were just long very fine very delicate fingers no fingernails but right at the tip of each finger right at the tip of each finger it looked like there was a pad and in this pad it looked like it might have had very small little they were like little suction cups but very many suction cups the doctors that's where he explained it that was looking at it let's hear the tape we need to get the arm as well okay yes we need to pull out the arm I'll see to it that we get some dubs of other people's interviews I'll just go to Kmarta where ever and buy the tape why don't we start with the well he talked about the hand so for continuity it might be good to go to the arms this will all be edited anyway but we can start wherever you want to go let's start with the arms okay forget the camera it's not there but you were asking me to describe the arms and this was another thing that the lieutenant brought out that it was very the difference between there and ours that from the wrist to the first join here that it was probably one and a half times longer than the top part up here it was very odd looking it was very odd she said and the very small very small arms very small bone structure bone structure of course I asked her about the bones because we were talking about the wrist bones and everything and she said it was very similar to ours but the bones were so small that their bones probably wasn't in the arms wasn't any larger than my finger wow okay now give me two or three sentences on how they were dressed we never mentioned it we talked about the dress did she say anything about the sex or was she able to determine she said she really never she was so sick and everything that never even entered her mind so that was it no way to determine the sex of the beings then well it wasn't discussed with her it probably was but she like she said I was so ill and so horrified that that I don't you know she set up all night and she knew I was going to be real concerned to you I was going to be on what happened you know she knew that I got in trouble probably and she would drew that you know she set up and made little notes on the back of these little prescription pads and that's what she had her notes made out and that's what we discussed particularly what she had I was very interested in that you had kept so many records of the incident and pertaining to everything that you know regarding the UFO correction and you kept them there at Ballard's and then later they disappeared well I was really in charge of all the military contracts I did all the bids and everything and really took care of all the contracts myself and that was one of my duties at the funeral I'm going to take care of the military I had a file I had a file on everything that ever happened at Walker Air Base like Bob Hope and different some of the big orchestras and everybody had come and had the big parties and everything and the hangers you know I attended but I would also have pictures and everything and I had a personal file that I kept and I kept everything in this file that pertained that I attended or whatever and this is where I put the diagrams and the notes that gave me was in my personal file well then the Ballard Funeral Home sold at a later date several years later that it sold and the people that bought the funeral home these were files that they were the old files that they kept in the basement down in the furnace room and they had all the military files together in one filing cabinet everything that happened with the base and everything we also had the contract at Fort Sumner Air Base they had a glider base there and also fighter pilot training there and the P-47 and 51's and so on and so I had all the files everything was one filing cabinet was strictly all military and that's where I had all this filed away I had all this filed away I even had the newspaper that Walter Haught the headlines and all this the next day I had all that in his file well no there were some of the other files were missing also not just my own file but my file was in the same most of all my files my file was gone but there was also some files they had really actually had destroyed most of the files that were obtaining after a certain years they'd just gotten rid of them and they told the manager of the funeral home that's the manager of their name Raymond Otero also told me that he knew my file was there Joe Lucas that was a manager at that time knew my files were there and he and I had some personal problems and he said get rid of you know get rid of his damn files we don't anything it reminds us of him that's where the files went really there was some discussion about how to preserve the bodies right dry ice and that sort of thing and you kind of would where they got the ice and things then the mortuary officer okay what would you do if you had to ship one out but you couldn't do anything to I mean that you couldn't you know do any treatment between what would you do I said the only thing you could do that I would suggest the first thing if you have a problem don't want to destroy any tissue any blood cells anything that you don't want to destroy I would suggest that you contact the pathologist and I said I'm sure the Army airfield somebody's got some pathologist around I didn't know that they had one in Roswell but I said if I were you I'd call a pathologist and take you know ask him what how he would like to have it done or whatever you're going to do or whatever it is you better do what the pathologist because he's the one that's going to do the autopsy to make the reports but I said the only thing I know you could do is just go to Clarity's dairy since at Creamery we had two at the time and buy all the dry ice you can and pack them in dry ice if that's possible and that's what I suggest that they do excuse me oh sorry about that sorry I've done that at least eight times already that's not personal like this okay what do you think I think as a suggestion you might want to do that part again if you think you'd like to use it because dry ice you probably hit it just a few times oh sorry about that isn't this a picky goodness Glendett is take two Clarity's dairy let's go back and go over the dry ice well okay what I suggested that to the mortuary I suggested this to the mortuary after we discussed this probably for 20 minutes or better on the telephone and I said I kept telling him hey if you have a problem if you've got something out there if you need our services we have the contract we'll help you take care of it and he said no this is for future he kept always referring this for future use in case we did have something but then I said well first thing you better do you better get a hold of a pathologist I don't know whether you have one at the base I don't but I know you probably have the top pathologist something similar to those words and I said that's what I'd do and you better let him give you the instructions and then you better do what he tells you to do because he's the one that's going to do the autopsy and you don't if it's this sensitive you better do what he tells you but I said the only other suggestion I can make that you go to Clarity's Dairy or you go to Sunset Creamery buy all the dry ice you can and pack whatever you have whatever the problem is you better pack it in dry ice and then do whatever you have to do with it because that's the only way they tried to put it in the morgue that's the morgue they had two refrigerated body compartments that we used to put them in and then we'd go out and get the bodies from there but they always brought the airmen to us but on the dependence and everything we went out for them but they weren't cold enough and it became so offensive they were afraid they were going to set everybody in the hospital so they later moved them over to a hangar or anything about them to the lieutenant or anything about them but she didn't know how they moved or anything about it but they were taken to a hangar because the odor was so offensive they couldn't like they said it was upsetting everything that's great tell you where she thought or where she was told the bodies went from Roswell I'm sorry where the bodies went from Roswell she shipped out where they went she never told me she never mentioned any suggestions she just said the last she heard they were in a hangar and that's all she knows we never discussed anything else I guess if that takes care of her then would you like to watch it what is the portion of just get an idea you don't need to watch the whole let's turn it around and watch it