 So very good afternoon to all the people who have joined us here for the entrepreneur power talk on planning the future for prop tech 2020. It is indeed very different times than what we have known in 2020 started. And to the point where six months down the line, we are very thinking very differently about all the businesses and about all the ventures that we have been running so far. Now real estate if you look at it as an industry has always been very resilient. So no matter what financial depressions what stock market depressions have happened, real estate industry has always bounced back. Indeed, it is also one of the highest employment generators across the world, both from a construction point of view as well as from real estate selling point of view. So, but I think now COVID-19 has been a very different experience for the industry as a whole, because it talks about lack of human contact, which is very important, which puts sort of different dynamics to the entire real estate industry. And in one sense, I think it has also related the changes that were anyway happening in the real estate industry because of technology, which were related to the digitization of the industry. I would say that the digital genie of the real estate industry is now really out of the bottle. And therefore it's only going to create the COVID is only going to create a tailwind for the property sector. From a trans point of view, I would say that the commercial real estate, let's wait for five years. And I think commercial real estate history is going to be rewritten for it in terms of how commercial real estate buying or selling is going to happen. How people would now invest in commercial real estate, I think particularly from retail stores perspective, a lot is going to change. I don't know if brands would want to really be opening as many retail touch points as they used to. And at the same time, I think corporations, they've always looked at big, large hefty corporate offices, more as a strategic asset rather than only as a workplace for the people that might also take a large shift. On the hindsight, if you look at it, people are now going to look at their homes very differently. Homes are going to be bigger, larger, with spaces actually cut down for offices within these homes itself. And more importantly, I think there was a big trend that was happening, which was around renting of homes. It's now probably going to shift to buying of homes and buying of bigger homes than people were used to previously because remote working is now really truly entrenched between us. So I think given some of these trends we've joined by Mr. Dhruva Garwal who of Ilara Technologies, he's here and we caught him here in Delhi this time. And we wanted to speak to him about what he feels about the prop tech sector, you know, with such under his leadership prop tiger has grown exponentially. And also, of course, they made acquisitions of Macan.com very recently along with a lot of other housing.com as well. But what is important is how they're looking at technology today, you know, to make sure that the real estate business continues to grow and thrive. So welcome, Dhruva. And thank you very much for joining us here today. Thanks for having me on the show. Really appreciate it. So you know, I mean, particularly let's start, let me start by asking you this, that how do you see the COVID has brought different opportunities for the real estate sector, particularly from the technology standpoint. How do you see the real estate sector changing and adoption of digitization changing amidst and post COVID. One of the things that we've noticed, you know, which was a very pleasant surprise, we did a consumer survey recently, it was jointly commissioned by housing.com and Redco, which showed that real estate has once again, you know, emerged as a preferred asset class for investors and people in general, you know, over gold, over fixed deposits and, you know, over the stock market. I think that's to be expected just given what we've seen, you know, in terms of the stock market being highly volatile post COVID. I think that's, that's, you know, I think one positive aspect of COVID. I think, you know, the challenges which obviously the industry is facing is in terms of, you know, by demand, I think at a latent level is still very strong. I think people have put a hold on their buying decisions for the next, you know, six to 12 months, just to kind of see how the situation evolves with regard to COVID. I think, you know, in India, as you yourself pointed out, the sector has been very resilient because there is a very strong latent demand because of the structural, you know, urbanization that we see, you know, in the country. I think in terms of, you know, how things have changed, you know, from a technology perspective to all of us, all of us know that, you know, for the last sort of 90 days, you know, majority of us have been, you know, working, you know, from home and have, you know, quote unquote become digital animals, right, all the way from, you know, our kids, you know, studying online to even, you know, health consultations taking place online. All of us professionals leading our lives, you know, pretty much on zoom and other similar platforms, and not to mention, you know, grocery and, and you know, other essential items. So we, I think, are witnessing a digital adoption, you know, or a pace of digital adoption which you've never seen before. And that applies across categories and I think real estate is no different. You know, what what we found that there is a clear opportunity for real estate companies now to market their products online. You know, we as an organization, along with many others have have instituted end to end processes for people to actually buy online. So you can you can, you know, do your search on a website. There are webinars being conducted along with developers where you know questions are being answered. You know, we've done live drone shoots of the site of the sample apartment. We pretty much answered whatever questions you would ask during a site visit. We've done 3D walkthroughs enabled enabled you to shortlist the property online and also make a payment in case you know, you made a decision to buy. So I think that acceleration, you know, where people thought that buying real estate online end to end, you know, it's still some years away. I think now is is a very, you know, near term reality and we are seeing it happen. Even on the rental side, I think all the way from signing a rental agreement online to doing the walkthroughs online, but then ultimately signing up for packers and moving services, etc. And payment of rent is all happening online. So I think you've got to start seeing many, many processes which I think were happening online in bits and pieces start to happen online. You know, across across the value chain. Having said that, what I wanted to also add is that at the end of the day, you know, real estate is the single most, you know, important purchase decision of any families, you know, in their lifetime. It happens at best once or twice and it is always the most expensive purchase decision they'll ever make. So I still believe that people would want to, if circumstances allow, would want to go and visit the site at least once before they make that decision. So I think what online is going to do dramatically different is that, that, you know, previously you may have gone and visited five properties and, you know, made your decision. Now I think you'll shortlist to maximum one or two using all the online tools available, you know, pay a quick visit and then transact and close the transaction online. But again, you don't need, you know, human interaction to do that. I think that's, that's, you know, going to be a fundamental shift, you know, as far as technology is concerned, especially on the sales and marketing side. Sure. You know, I was trying to sort of figure out yesterday that if from a consumer's perspective or purchase decision of real estate has to be made. There are many factors that I would, I mean, if I were to think of myself as a buyer of real estate, particularly let's say a home, I would have many questions in my head to look at. I mean, I thought that three were very important to me, besides many other. I mean, I would love to know what is more, what is the community around me where I'm going to buy a home or a place to live. So I mean, my question to you is, and you know, there are several factors within it, which we discussed, but I mean, how does, you know, Ilara technologies prop tiger help in consumer making these decisions. So one thing was of course find the property itself. But more importantly, it's about understanding, you know, what is there in that community, whether there's a hospital, what school, you know, what kind of people am I going to be living with, which is where I think going there and actually meeting and sort of greeting people was always more important. So you know, what, what does prop tiger do to make that experience possible to know and help the customer know online or through digitally about what kind of community are they going to move into. So look, you know, I think, you know, what, what happens, is that, especially for new homes, you know, you can categorize, you know, new homes, you know, into sort of two buckets, one which happened, you know, in areas where there is already existing social infrastructure, and there's a full ecosystem with schools, hospitals, everything sort of there. But a large number of new launches are happening in areas where social infrastructure is sort of slowly and, you know, gradually building up. So typically what happens is, you know, whether you come to, you know, prop tiger, whether you go to housing.com or any of our properties, there are many others out there as well. Well, I think you get a good perspective in terms of, you know, what's out there and, you know, in the neighborhood, you know, you can do searches on housing.com, for example, around, you know, whether schools are nearby or not, you can put in your place of work and see how far the properties from your, you know, place of work. Plus, there's lots and lots of information around the neighborhood, the locality, what social infrastructure is available. And I think the digital medium naturally lends itself to making it easy for consumers to access this kind of information. Even if you go to the site, you will not be able to get a perspective of all of these things unless, you know, you kind of take a 60,000 foot view, and I'm looking at it holistically. I mean, what the visit allows you to do is to get a feel for the place, access, and whether you just sort of, you know, it's an emotional decision at the end of the day, do you feel good or not, when you go there. But in terms of information, you know, price trends in the neighborhood, what infrastructure is about to come up, which today may not physically be visible, etc., etc. All that is very easily accessible on the digital media and is available now as a basic hygiene factor, not only on PropTiger as I said, but on pretty much all technology platforms. And which is why digital is so powerful, you know, as a medium for people to buy real estate. I mean, recent research shows that almost 70% of all real estate transactions actually get initiated online. Even if the consummation happens offline, but the initiation happens, you know, online, 70% is a large number, and it's only going to go up, you know, post-COVID in the coming few years. And I mean, you know, how do you sort of educate the customer about the construction quality out there? I mean, how do you tell them about it? One of those things is obviously, you know, it becomes a lot easier when the builder whose, you know, property is under discussion, that builder has a track record. So it becomes much easier where you can, you know, demonstrate to them what, you know, previous, you know, buildings have been made, you know, what consumers are talking about that building on the various fora which are there on our platforms. And stuff like that, right? Also track record in terms of completion, how long builders typically take to complete a project, that is a big concern consumers have. Even if the quality is good, they want it in a timely fashion. So all that I think is something which, you know, builders obviously, you know, with a track record, it becomes easier for us, you know, as channel partners to kind of demonstrate. Because proof of the pudding isn't eating it, right? I mean, irrespective if it's a completely new builder, even despite all the diligence we do on the developer, it's hard to predict which way it goes. But at our level, what we do is, we do a lot of diligence upfront, before we actually market something on behalf of a developer. We are not convinced about a particular property's quality, the track record of the developer, the ability for the developer to complete a project, we seldom take it on. And, you know, we've learned the hard way, you know, in the early days of PropTiger eight or nine years ago, you know, we made our mistakes in terms of, you know, working with certain developers who did not keep up with their commitment. And of course, there was a situation then when even some very well known developers couldn't, you know, keep their commitments, because of, you know, a huge sort of financial challenge in the industry overall. But now we become a lot more careful. And, you know, we try, you know, everything we can upfront to ensure that the developers we work with, you know, are credible, have a good track record, and ultimately will not let consumers down. Absolutely. And how do you, I mean, so having said that, do you think it's easier today on a digital platform to be able to, to be able to sort of showcase properties which are by more trusted builders than to show off, I would say more stand and own properties or, you know, single one of properties in that kind of thing. So look, you know, at the end of the day, I think that is part of the responsibility of every platform, you know, is to showcase whatever is out there, and be as comprehensive as possible. So I think from a portal perspective like on housing.com, it's important that, you know, consumers get a perspective of whatever else is out there, and then, you know, make a judgment for themselves in terms of, you know, what they like. I think, you know, when you when you talk about, you know, channel partners such as PropTiger, then, then I think, you know, what happens is that the curation takes place in terms of nobody just said that, you know, you showcase projects only of you know, known developers, they're the curation takes place in terms of which projects PropTiger actually selects to market, right. So a consumer may come to PropTiger that look, hey, we want this particular project. But we may or may not be able to help the consumer with that particular one, and actually educate the consumer that look what you're looking for may have these shortcomings. But, you know, there is something else, you know, meeting exactly the same, you know, parameters that you have in mind with a much better developer with a better track record. So that is the help we provide. But at the same time, you know, it's important for us as an organization to showcase everything which is out there and give all developers an equal chance to kind of demonstrate their credibility. Because, you know, at the end of the day, my belief is that, you know, consumer is king, and ultimately consumers, you know, discerning consumers drive everyone to a higher standard. You know, if you as a consumer do not select a certain developer for a reason, the developer wants to stay in business, they will raise the bar for themselves. So it's our fundamental duty to kind of, you know, improve the industry overall. So I think it's only fair to showcase everyone, but then, you know, do some curation and guide the consumer as well. Absolutely. And I mean, how do you, I mean, if as a consumer, if I want to, because, you know, whenever you buy at home, you also think of it as an asset or an office, whatever. So how do you help a consumer project capital gains that are likely to come out of that particular property? So look, that is something, that is something which, you know, we try and stay away from, you know, there are a lot of, you know, advertisements out there, you know, a lot of people claiming that, you know, get X percent return over a certain period of time, and so on and so forth. I think that's a very dangerous, you know, way to sell property. Because at the end of the day, we all know in the stock markets as well, everyone talks about that, you know, the past is no indication of the future. Right. So again, you know, what we can do at best in terms of pricing and capital gains is we can share trends, or what's happened in the past. You know, we can talk about what the economic situation is. And, you know, in a way say that look, the economic environment is such where real estate overall as an asset class, you know, should do well or not do well. But it's hard to kind of, you know, put a, you know, finger on a number and say this is the capital gains to be expected. I mean, that's a very dangerous way to kind of, you know, lead consumers to buy something. Sure. I would also request our attendees who have questions kindly please post them in the Q&A section and not in the chat group so that we can ask those questions and in fact give you the mic at some point of time in this conversation. So going forward, you know, I was talking recently to a very notable real estate figure and I asked him, you know, how is the industry going to be impacted in terms of, you know, because it's such a human industry, there is so much construction which is done by labor and then more importantly, the whole real estate sector. I mean, I say that, you know, in India, everybody is a real estate broker because if you know that there is a property and you know that there is a buyer somewhere, they just would, nobody needs a certificate to become one as a real estate broker. But you know, the point he made was that today it is not about, you know, it's not about technology replacing the broker or the real estate agent, but the real estate agent who does not digitize himself or does not adopt technology would get replaced. So I thought that was a very profound statement. But now given that, how do you see that adaptability happening? Because most real estate people are not that savvy with technology, they don't know how to adapt technology that often. So you know, how do you see, do you see that happening first of all? And I mean, if it does happen, do you see more competition coming in Proctec as a sector? See, look, you know, I think there were two points you made. One is, you know, whether the broker himself or herself gets replaced. And second, if not, you know, do they, do they, you know, need to become more digital savvy, you know, in order to avoid getting replaced, right? So look, I feel once again that, you know, real estate, again, as I keep mentioning, you know, the single most expensive purchase decision of your life, right? It is the, you know, it is a once or twice decision of your life, highly emotionally charged. All family members get involved. And people are pretty nervous about it, especially first time home buyers. So having an intermediary sometimes who kind of walks through the process, you know, answers questions for you. If not anything, you know, acts as a sounding board is very important. I think, you know, for, for, you know, for the sector. So which means that brokers will be required. We've seen this happen globally, that, you know, brokers continue to play a very, very important role, you know, in intermediating real estate transaction. That I think is something which I don't see imminent in terms of changing, right? However, I think what, what, what you kind of said is a very important point. At the end of the day, the entire world is becoming more digital. Now it's not about whether you want to use digital or not, you have to be digital. Across industries, and if you're not, you're simply going to get, you know, eliminated, because you just won't be competitive. So I think that's going to be, that's going to be a survival of the fittest amongst brokers. So they're more digitally savvy brokers will, you know, take, you know, higher market share and become stronger and the people who fail to adapt, right, you know, will, will sort of move out of the industry. And I think the good news is the good news is many of the naysayers, even amongst, you know, in the real estate industry, I think now have realized, when I say naysayers in terms of technology adoption have themselves firsthand experienced the power of technology, you know, in these, you know, close to 90 days, you know, since the first lockdown happened. And the reliance on technology has gone up so much that I think everybody has become a believer in my opinion. So I think you're going to start seeing that this resistance to technology adoption amongst, you know, in amongst channel partners, brokers, others, I think now we'll get swept away and you'll find a much more digitally savvy, you know, broker community going forward. And you know, don't underestimate the broker community. I think the, you know, the community has survived and thrived through all the ups and downs, and has only grown stronger. And I think, and I think that this is a next big opportunity for real estate brokers to become even more relevant going forward by adopting technology, you know, they can use, they can use the power of technology to look a lot smarter. In terms of, you know, how they come across to the to the clients, they can showcase data, they can show information, whatever portal showcase, they can use the same technology to showcase that to their clients. And you know, win, win their trust, they can increase their efficiency, so that they become more productive and actually become more profitable. So I think real estate brokers should look at technology, not as a threat, but as an enabler for them to become more efficient, more smarter and more relevant to the clients. Absolutely. And I mean, so some basic functions that they have to sort of do immediately, what would you suggest to them? Look, I think one of the things, you know, in my opinion is that we still find a lot of resistance, you know, among some brokers to market online, right. And you know, one is trying to, you know, optimize budgets and things like that. I think the most important thing is, you know, trust the online channel, market yourself on the online channel. When the leads come in, I think that's where, you know, starts to break down, where sometimes people just take a long time to connect with the clients which come in, you know, you get flooded with 100 leads. And, you know, what you end up doing is you end up calling a couple. So it's important to, you know, have a CRM system, you know, which is digital, which helps you manage your leads carefully. You can ensure that, you know, in a systematic fashion, you can reach out to people because, you know, data is shown to us at PropTiger that there's an exponential decay and conversion rates which happen, you know, as time goes along for the first contact, right. So time to first contact is crucial in closing. And I think many of the channel partners miss out on that. So without a proper digital tool to help you with that, it's very difficult. So AVE, you know, one, as I said, is online marketing. Second is, you know, CRM. Third important thing is showcasing property. I think a lot of brokers still hesitate in terms of going to the apartments they have, which they are representing and taking good pictures, you know, taking videos and putting them on either, you know, their own, you know, platforms or sharing it with their clients or putting it on portals. I think, you know, this is something which is an asset for them, because if they once taken the picture and a good video, they can use it across multiple channels. That would really urge people to do that, improve the quality of your listing because, you know, as a portal, we've clearly seen that, that the conversion rate, you know, for your particular listing as a channel partner becomes way higher. If the quality of the information, if the quality of the pictures, if you have a video, all that is there. So that is very, very important terms of becoming more digitally savvy, right? And then, as I said, you know, just showcasing, showcasing information and data, which again, I think is best shared, you know, using the digital media. But do you feel that, I mean, considering so much digitization happening in PropTech, is the market going to get more competitive? And of course, since everybody is selling digitally, the leads are going to be divided among so many players and we have seen it in other industries too. Look at e-commerce, there's a flipkart and then there are so many, there's a big basket and then there are also so many small, small e-commerce players, hyper-local e-commerce players who come out regionally. So given the fact that the market is looking to become more competitive, what kind of deep tech tools are you going to use at PropTiger and Housing to, you know, be ahead of the game? So, you know, I think one of the things to keep in mind is that, you know, we sometimes, you know, overemphasize, you know, competition. You know, if I look at the US real estate market, you know, PropTech is one of the hottest sectors there. And the number of new startups in PropTech, you know, doing, you know, various different things is very, very high. And it's a very active sector, very vibrant sector. In India, I can, you know, count on my fingertips the number of, you know, meaningful digital players we have. So markets very, very large. And I think that there is so much of opportunity that not only, you know, will the existing players do well, there is tremendous opportunity for new players to come into the PropTech space, because the market is very large. I think what we've seen, Ritu, is the last, I would say six or seven years, you know, for real estate and industry has been very tough, you know, for various reasons. I think first there was this, you know, big correction in demand which took place, you know, in 2013. And that was largely driven by, I think, a boom which sort of, you know, ran out for too long and went far ahead of itself, right, both in terms of pricing, supply and all of that. But that I think had to kind of correct itself. Then of course there was structural things, you know, which happened in the industry, you know, right from demonetization to the industry needing to adjust to the new GST regime, RERA regime, then of course the crisis, you know, in terms of liquidity, you know, because of NBFC and so on and so forth. So, you know, the underlying industry has gone through a very tough time, which has made the ability for some of the PropTech players also to do well. It has undermined that because, you know, the underlying industry is not doing well. How do you grow? Because the customers are not doing well. So I think that has been, I would say, one big factor in preventing, you know, the vibrancy in PropTech that we've seen in other sectors and also the kind of capital flows we've seen from tech investors into PropTech. And I think that's going to change. You know, real estate tends to be a long cycle industry, you know, because just the sheer nature of the industry because it takes long to respond to demand because construction has a certain finite lifetime and so on and so forth. And it's very capital intensive. So which is why it's a long cycle industry. So we tend to see long cycles on the way down and long cycles on the way up, right? I think that, you know, once the momentum comes back into real estate, you know, once, of course, the COVID scare is over. And of course, you know, how the industry emerges will be very different because there will be some shake out especially, you know, for financially weaker players both on the PropTech side as well as, you know, on the real estate developer side. I think once the tailwind comes, you'll see you'll see a lot of opportunity for PropTech players, you know, over the next, you know, five to 10 years. So I don't frankly see this as a very competitive industry at this point and there's room for many, many players. Sure. In the light of what you just mentioned, I know that recently the union minister, Mr. Piyush Goyal mentioned that developers should actually cut prices and make them more realistic way for developers. So developers can survive so they should basically cut down their prices. So do you think that is viable or do you think that it's better to hold on to the inventory and wait for the market to have a correction? Look, you know, this is a question which, you know, I think every developer has to answer independently and individually, right? This is a balance sheet issue, frankly. If you have a strong balance sheet, you have strong cash flows, you have access to cheap capital, and you can afford to hold on, you'll hold on. That's the business decision, right? If you're a weak developer, right, and, you know, you don't have a strong balance sheet, you're heavily indebted, your cost of servicing, you know, your debt is going out of hand, then I think it might be a smarter move to give some discounts and sell. So it's an individual decision. I don't think it's a sector-wide problem where everybody's going to drop their prices and start selling, right? And there are enough strong developers out there who don't need to do that. But on the other hand, there are enough developers as well who might be better served by just, you know, giving discounts and tearing inventory so they can actually survive this downturn and then come back strongly at a later time. Sure. So we've just got questions also coming in. So there is one question which has come through Facebook by Nishi Chaudhary who says that when one visits a property website, she starts getting calls from associated services such as packers, movers and so on. So what are the data protection practices which are today existing on digital platforms? Look, I think it's a question of what you've signed up for. I think all platforms are very, very careful about sharing your data and sharing your information. If you have indicated on the platform that you don't mind your information being shared with other agencies, whether it's mortgage providers, whether it's packers and movers or other service providers, that data is not shared. So it's only if you've opted in does the data get shared. At least I can speak, you know, for our platforms, but that's my sense for all other platforms out there as well. Okay. So I think we've got another question here who's actually been sending us quite a few questions is Mr. Manjeet Singh. If we can pass on the mic to him please. Mr. Singh, please unmute before you ask the question. Yeah, good afternoon. How are you, sir? Very good. How are you? Okay, doing well. Yes, sir. Sir, I wanted to check on two things like now this new, I mean, the new life trend, I mean, which has emerged. Will this trend towards making an integrated township so that in the event any pandemic situation or any war like situation happens. So that people are inside their campus and self-sufficient and they should not come on the road. Will that happen now? Will that trend emerge? Including in rulers. Sorry, including in? Ruler, in villages. Okay, got it, got it. Look, I think it's a great, great question, Manjeet. I think, you know, what the pandemic has definitely done has that it has re-emphasized the importance of your home, you know, as a safe haven. And, you know, people's perspective towards owning a home versus renting a home, you know, will change considerably. So younger people who are just starting off, you know, in their, in their sort of professional journeys, they ideally would start by renting a home. And many, many young people, you know, given the nature of the gig economy that we have, would also consider saying, look, you know, why do we need to invest in a big asset? We'll just continue renting, you know, all our lives and, you know, preserve our capital to enjoy, you know, life experiences. I think that, you know, you might see a change as people will realize that, look, homes, you know, are a safe haven, and you need to ultimately own your home. So if somebody was thinking of never buying a property, they might say, look, we'll do it after five, six, seven years. I think home ownership as a result of the pandemic, I think will ultimately go up. Second is the nature of the home will change. I think, you know, people will want bigger homes, you know, with like a study area where, you know, they have to work from home, balcony spaces so they can get fresh air, you know, now and then. Again, spaces in the, in the development where they can go out and, you know, have play areas, walking areas, you know, workout areas so on and so forth. Which again, you know, in a situation like the pandemic gives them that ability, you know, to kind of access those without the risk of having to go out. To answer your question, I think people will, you know, look at, you know, when they're looking at making the purchase decisions, will look for many of these facilities which an integrated township would provide. Be it a small sort of grocery store, play area, you know, health facility, large open spaces, you know, for children to play for you to work out, walk, etc. So yes, you know, self-sufficient communities will, I think, find favor with consumers going forward. And that's going to be the same in big cities, you know, or in, you know, small towns. Of course, just given, you know, availability of space in big cities, you're going to see those happen in the periphery of big cities. And then smaller towns as well, you know, where space availability is higher. And I think this will also get facilitated by, you know, another shift we are seeing, which is, you know, work from home, where people would not necessarily need to travel to the center of the city for a job, or to big, or even go from small city to a big city, you know, for a job, because they could accomplish what they need to do, you know, remotely. Sure. Thanks, Minjit. We have the next question coming from Neeraj. Thank you so much. Please unmute Neeraj and ask your question. Hi, Neeraj, how are you? I'm good, how are you? My question is gaining this is the most important thing when you buy the flat or property. Could you just repeat that, please? Gaining trust, buyer trust. Okay. It's the most important thing for us broker, but when I'm not meeting to any broker personally and not, not visiting any, any property as well, then how, how, you know, how it is possible that the property will be real or not? No, so look, you know, Neeraj, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think, you know, I am advocating at all that, you know, you shouldn't visit a property before, you know, making a purchase decision. You know, as I've constantly maintained that it is the biggest purchase decision, you know, of an individual's life, the most expensive and maybe one or two time purchase decision. I mean, why would I not make the effort of going and visiting a site, you know, when I'm, when I'm spending anywhere from 25 lakhs to 2 crores, right? And depending on, you know, what, what property value I'm looking at, it's all expensive and, you know, pretty large ticket sizes. So I wouldn't advocate not visiting. I think what, when we talk about the process moving online is concerned, I think one, especially, especially for, you know, new homes, where, where, you know, the property, it's a new launch, right? You may be familiar with the area, you may drive through the area, you might, you know, you might get a good sense of the developer's reputation. I think you could conduct that entire, you know, sale online. And even then, you know, at your leisure, if you have time, you can go visit and, you know, make that, make that decision. But, you know, as I said that if, if, you know, you are making such an expensive purchase decision, do, do make time to go visit one before you pull the trigger. But you don't need to go visit 10 properties now, because you can do very effective shortlisting online. And then, you know, you are very efficiently managing your time on one weekend, you can go visit these two properties and take, take a purchase, make the purchase decision. So, so I think that it's, it's, it's not difficult, you know, to execute a purchase transaction in this fashion. And secondly, for building trust, I think as I said earlier again, it's very, very important to research on the reputation of the developer, see the developer's track record, and then make the purchase decision. And today that information is widely available on, on multiple platforms, you know, for, for real estate. Sure. Our next question is coming from Hussain. Is Hussain online? Please unmute Hussain before you ask. Yes. Go on, please. Hello. Yeah, go on. Good afternoon, sir. How are you? Good. Thank you. So I want to know if people are having in these days, it's a very tough time. If people have properties to sell their bank loan is not available. How do they move on? Because I myself am having a property right now and I'm urgently in need of money. I'm trying to sell the property for quite a long time. But since bank loan is not available on that property, how, how do people go on to buy it also for the buyers as well as for the sellers? Sure. So look, I don't know exactly, you know, what, what, what the property under, under consideration is, you know, there are certain properties which are not approved by banks. You know, depending on, you know, whether it's authorized, unauthorized, you know, what, whether they are necessarily, you know, signed up for financing a particular developer and so on and so forth. So I don't, I don't know that. But in general today, you know, home loans are available. Home loan rates are at a all time, I would say if not an all time, but at a significant multi-year low. So clearly, clearly, I think, you know, availability of home loans should not be ideally a deterrent, you know, in, in somebody buying a home, as long as the property is credit worthy, as well as the buyer who wants to take the home loan. They have the adequate credit track record to be able to access home finance. But for people, you know, who have the right credit track record, the right credit history, it's one of the best times to take a home loan because interest rates as I said are at a multi-year low. So just to ask what Hussain asked, Dhruv, do you see this as an opportunity for a prop tech companies to be partnering with FinTech lending companies to make this financing easier, particularly in smaller cities? My question is, my question is different. Actually, I don't think my question has been understood very clearly. There are certain properties, a lot of people are holding properties which they want to sell, but which are not approved for bank loan. Like maybe their assessment has not been done. So since assessment is not done, it is a government's problem, not the property holder's problem. There is some dispute going on between the corporation because they are not doing assessment for those properties. Because the assessment is not done, the tax is not collected for the property, they are not getting a bank loan. What do those people do? Because that is a problem for both the buyer as well as for the seller. The seller is holding the property, he wants to sell it, the buyer wants to buy the property, but he cannot get a bank loan. So what is the solution for this problem? You get my problem, sir. Which is what I said, there are properties where there are various reasons for why banks don't approve those properties as being eligible for loans. That is a challenge. I think on the buyer side, the buyer really wants the property and that particular property sometimes is unfortunate. The buyer wants to buy the property, he is ready, but he doesn't have the funds to do it. Agreed. The only advice I can give is to look for another property where a bank loan is actually available. That is the only solution because there are lots and lots of properties available out there today on which you can get a bank loan. So to the buyer, I would advise, look for those properties which are available within the budgetary requirement you have and get the bank loan for that. Unfortunately, sometimes we just cannot get everything we want and we have to be practical about what is available and on which bank loan is available. I can understand for a seller it's a challenge because you are stuck with the property because you're not being able to find somebody who can avail of that loan. I think that's an unfortunate situation to be in and I sort of commiserate with you. But again, it's something where I think once the dispute is settled, I think things will start moving. Okay, but do you see this as an opportunity for financing group between a PropTech platform and a FinTech platform coming together? So I think, you know, Ritu, that this already happening, most of the PropTech platforms out there have relationships with banks and financial institutions, which allows consumers coming onto these PropTech platforms to get access to these financiers for home loans. So it happens on housing.com, it happens on PropTiger, it happens on Macan, consumers who opt in for a home loan have the ability to work with banks, multiple banks and NBFCs to avail of loans. And there also, I think there is a bit of curation which happens where we are very careful about who we partner with in terms of what their interest rates are, what the credibility is, what their other loan, upfront loan fees are. And general reputation before we get them onto a platform. But I think most platforms today have relationships with FinTech companies to provide financing to buyers. Yeah, but I mean, such odd situations like the gentleman just mentioned, do you think that is something these relationships can manage? So look, this is a very odd situation where obviously every financial institution has an underwriting criteria, as long as a particular case meets the underwriting criteria, there is the job of a bank and a financial institution is to lend. But they do have to lend within certain underwriting constraints. So if that is met, I'm sure, and we've seen it across the board whether it's in terms of personal loans, whether it's in terms of home loans, you've seen it in the past in the US as well, where in 2008 we actually had an entire crisis driven by subprime loans. This is an example of a subprime loan where there is an issue with the property and there might be a financier who's willing to finance it. But there could be a challenge later on, because if there is a default, then you can't really do much with the property because of the dispute. Absolutely. So the next question comes from Manvendra Jha from PTI. So you're actually talking to the press now. I wasn't sure that the press is going to be there, but happy to answer. Is Manvendra online? Please unmute, Manvendra. Please unmute. Go on, please. Hello. Yes, we hear you. Hello. We hear you, Manvendra. My question is, you said PropTech has not, PropTech companies have not received much investment in last, I will say in the last 10 years. So do you have any figure how much they have received so far in the last 9 or 10 years? You started your company in 2011, I think. And what is the outlook for the next five years? How much they have received so far and what is the outlook for the next five years? So look, my sense is that in terms of, I don't have an exact number on what's being received, but I can tell you very safely that all PropTech companies put together have received less capital than let's say whether it's e-commerce, whether it's food tech, whether it's online groceries and many other sectors. However, I can share my thoughts on what lies ahead for the next five years. I think that real estate, as we all know, is 6 to 7% of the GDP of India and for most countries it's a similar number, anywhere between 6% to 8 or 9%, depending on which stage of growth you are in terms of development. It is the second largest employer in India, so it's a massive sector. So ultimately, with the adoption of technology in every single space, including real estate, I think that it's just a matter of time before we start seeing a lot of inflow of risk capital into PropTech. So I believe that the next five years, as I mentioned earlier in the show, we can expect large sums of capital to flow into this space. Again, I don't want to put a number because it's hard to pinpoint an exact number, but I just feel that the perception which investors have about PropTech, having not scaled, having not kind of delivered on the promise it had, I think will significantly change. And as I mentioned to you earlier, there's a reason why this perception is there. I think the biggest reason has been the challenges the sector has faced, the underlying sector has faced in the last six or seven years. I mean, you look at the state of the industry since 2013 and you just sort of draw a line and you'll see it's a downward line in terms of sales with a few sort of bump ups which happened once in a while in a quarter. And then every time the sector has looked to come back, I think in the last three years we've had to adjust to multiple events. And as I mentioned earlier, demonetization, the adjustment to RERA, GST, the NBFC crisis and now COVID. But I think that the most important thing to keep in mind is underlying demand for real estate is very strong in India because of the average age of the population, because of urbanization. And because of that, real estate has a very, very bright future going forward. You know, post COVID, you know, we will see an industry shake out where in some of the weak players will either integrate with the stronger players or go out of business. I think what will emerge will be a very strong industry, a very transparent industry, a very well regarded industry, which I think will be the right foundation for prop tech companies to do very well and then raise far higher amounts of risk capital going forward. Sorry for the long answer, but I hope I have answered it. Thanks, but you know, just to add to what Manavendra asked, I mean, where do you think if the capital were to be raised today and if funds were to come forward, where would you want to deploy this capital currently? So look, you know, there are, so prop tech again, as I would like to say is not simply about sales and marketing of real estate. You know, prop tech is applicable across the value chain. So all the way from, you know, technology adoption in design to, you know, construction, to construction monitoring, to sales and marketing, to property management, to portfolio management and financing of properties. Across the board, there is the application of prop tech and we've seen that with, you know, global companies. So, as I said that, you know, moment you start, including the adoption of technology into the planning design, construction and construction monitoring stage and property management, the size of the pie becomes, becomes massive. So, so every piece of the value chain today has an opportunity to observe to absorb further capital. Okay, so the next question is coming from Mr. Sushil, Sushil Chavanikar. Can we please have him on the mic? Okay, I don't see him coming online, but I can maybe look at his question right now and read it out for you. Okay, Abhishek Anand is next. In the meantime, we'll find his question. Can we give the mic to Abhishek? Please unmute Abhishek. Go on, please. Drupal, good afternoon. I just wanted to understand what is the consumer sentiment like at the moment? Are people willing to buy properties at this juncture or are they waiting, willing to wait for some six to eight months to take a buying decision? So look, you know, Abhishek, good afternoon. Thanks for the question. No, we recently did a survey, Housing.com, along with Naredko released actually a report coincidentally yesterday. You know, where we spoke about, you know, where we had basically done a survey of, you know, over 3,000, you know, potential home buyers in terms of how they were thinking about, you know, their home buying decision over the next few months. We found that there were only about 19% of the respondents who felt that they were going to put on hold their buying decision, you know, indefinitely, where they had no visibility on when they would want to buy. But a good 81% said that between, you know, now to the next 12 months, they would hold off on their decision, but would then ultimately ultimately buy. So just given the nature of the pandemic, the disruption which it has caused, both in terms of, you know, the humanitarian crisis which it has unleashed, the supply chain disruption, the demand destruction in many, many sectors. And the fact that, you know, despite, you know, the lockdown, the virus continues to sort of grow at a pretty brisk rate, or the number of infections, you know, continue to grow at a brisk rate. I think people want to wait and watch. They want to see how this thing pans out. Is there going to be a vaccine around the corner or not? Are the infections going to start coming down? So what's going to happen? You know, is the overall economy going to come back on its feet? Will people retain their jobs? Will they experience salary cuts? I think there's a lot of uncertainty at this stage, you know, which is sort of holding some people back from immediately pulling the trigger. So my view is, as I again mentioned earlier, the latent demand is extremely strong for various structural reasons, you know, in our country. So it is only normal to expect that, you know, people will, you know, still buy, but not buy immediately. And depending on how the situation emerges, which is, you know, I would say evolving on a daily basis, people could very easily change their minds and start buying sooner. If we start seeing, you know, positive news on the horizon. And on the flip side, if we see that, you know, there's a second wave of the virus in other countries, lockdown start to happen all over again. Then, you know, people could even push out their decision from, you know, zero to 12 months to even maybe, you know, 18 months. Who knows? Hard to say. But at this point in time, I think I take solace in the fact that, you know, latent demand is strong and very few, whatever the small minority have said, that, you know, at the moment they're just not considering buying anything. Thanks for your feedback, sir. Given that, how do you seek the industry consolidating? I mean, what kind of changes do you see in the structure of the industry as a whole? So look, one of the things where, you know, again, I think you kind of nicely asked a question earlier. I think the fact is that there are developers of all types, you know, in the industry, and with, you know, balance sheets of differing, you know, strength. So as I said, strong developers with strong balance sheets who can withstand a slowdown in demand, you know, the customer is holding back, you know, you're going to see a hit to your cash flow. These developers who can sustain this, you know, cash flow disruption will come out stronger, you know, post the crisis. The weaker developers, unless they are able to reduce prices and sell the inventory and manage the cash flow in the short term, if they don't do that, they run the risk of either defaulting and, you know, filing for bankruptcy or merging with larger developers. So I think there will be a wave of consolidation where some people will just not be able to withstand this demand slowdown and will be forced to merge or, you know, might just unfortunately, you know, go under. But what I always believe is that this sort of consolidation, shake out process as I call it, you know, results in a much more healthier industry. And, you know, once we are on the other side of the crisis, I think real estate will emerge as a strong sector with strong players, transparent players, resilient players, you know, with strong balance sheets, who then I think will I think drive the next wave of growth, you know, in the industry. Sure. Thanks very much for talking to us through nearly out of time. We cannot take more questions, though they keep pouring in, but any final word from your side, I mean, about the sector or about things that you see or forecast. Look, you know, I think I think my view is that as I think you kind of nicely said it, you know, during our discussion that real estate has proven to be a resilient sector, despite, you know, all the events we've gone through in the last several years. You know, every time things something has happened, we've tried to bounce back, but something else has happened. I fundamentally believe that the overall, you know, structural dynamics of the of the economy, a young population, an urbanizing population, a country where I think we're going to see huge amounts of growth going forward, given that I think China will be seen very differently by the world in terms of, you know, investing, and we might see the benefits of that happening in India. I think long term, the Indian economy is on a very good footing. While on the short term, I think we are in the midst of, you know, a crisis, which we have to get out of, I think the long term prospects are very strong. And for any growth economy, real estate, as I said, is a key part of that economy, as I said, anywhere between 6 to 10% of GDP. So we have a very bright future ahead. We just need to keep our heads down and make make sure that we kind of make it through the crisis and come out on the other side, you know, with a business that survives, which we can then build on as as as the economy grows. Sure. Thanks. And I think it will be indeed be a balancing act for the property sector as well as the real estate industry as a whole to sort of balance their immediate needs of revenue and also maximize the long term opportunities that continue to exist in the sector. I mean, eventually, people will always look for home, people will always look for a place to work, and that is never going to go out of fashion pandemic or not. So eventually, there is no death of opportunity for the sector, but the opportunities will evolve. So thank you very much for joining us today. And I think that was a great talk. We kept you busy with myself as well as a lot of questions that boarded. But thank you for being so patient and answering them and taking them all one by one. We really appreciate your being here. If our attendees have more questions, please put them on our Facebook live link. We'll try to get through or one of his team members to answer more questions for you. But thank you for joining us. Do like our social pages and we'll keep you informed about more and more power talks and other talks that we keep on doing for the industry and entrepreneurs to help them be better. Thank you once again. Thank you to all the members who joined us today. Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on the platform. Enjoy the discussion very much. Thank you. Hopefully we actually meet in some real estate and have this discussion. Absolutely. It would be a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining.