 Hello, my name is Rosa Maria Costich-Disneros and I am collaborating with the Independent Theatre Hungary. I'm here today with Richard O'Neill and Tamás Segedi. We're all in different locations, but because of the beauty of technology, we're able to connect and sit here today to talk about European family. I love both. I hope you're well. Welcome to the conversation. Thank you. Yes. If you could both start by introducing yourselves, your practice, where you are, I think that'd be helpful as well. Thank you. Hi, I'm Richard O'Neill. I'm from a nomadic Romani family in the north of England. That's where I'm speaking to you from now. And I'm a writer. I write all kinds of things. I write everything from children's books to plays, but I particularly love plays. It's such a wonderful thrill to sit down there and watch your words being spoken by somebody else and whether that's in English or a different language. It's a particular thrill to see these ideas come to life. Yes, thank you. And Tamás? Hi, I'm Tamás Segedi from Hungary. I'm living in Budapest. I work as an actor and a director in theatres. And I work as a teacher in a primary school. I teach in Romani language and I work as a drama teacher. And in the last few months, I started to work as a writer, too. I started to write some plays for children, specifically for children. And in the future, I would like to write more plays just for children, for every person. So here we are with two writers. It's lovely. Yes, it's lovely. And so speaking of writing, Ken, we're here talking about European family. Can you tell me a little bit about the work and your role within that work, if you were an actor or a writer? And yeah, a little bit more about that. Whoever wants to go first? Yeah, I'll go. It was interesting for me, the European family, because we were actually in lockdown. So we couldn't do anything else apart from do this, what we're doing now, which is online. And just as a storyteller and a writer, naturally being collecting stories. And there were so many beautiful stories that came out of the lockdown, particularly in England with people who, because I work with a lot of Roma people who are from Eastern Europe, who currently live in England. And a lot of them were unable to move, of course, because of the lockdown. Some of them needed to get back home. And some of them need to get back to England fairly quickly. And there were so many stories around that about, you know, how to get from one place to the other. And then when you're a fairly close family as part of a close community, that feeling of being split up, of being disconnected, and talking with the independent theatre. And they were talking about wanting to do a play. And I ended up doing some acting in that play, which is not my first choice, really. But I enjoyed it. I think I was okay in it. I'll let other people judge that. But it was such a lovely experience, I had all of these stories, and I came up with all of these ideas, and then talking to the actors, the cast, if you will, then we were able to work round, and they were able to do some of the writing themselves for the things they wanted to say. So it's very much a collective piece, even though I'd had most of the ideas. So that was really interesting to me, because it was like a family. And even though we were connecting on the internet, and we became kind of like a family, and we had all these rehearsals, we had some recordings. And yeah, we actually went into those roles, and I did feel like I was Thomas' dad for quite a while, which was quite good. So I really enjoyed that. Thank you. Thank you. I really enjoyed it too, because that was my first time when I play in a movie or in a theater. It was between these two parts of this artistic way. And it was the first time when I worked as an actor in English. So it was a good experience to me, how to play it, how to do it in another language, not my native language. So it was a good experience. And that was the second nice thing in this way. As Richard said, we were all around the world. And someone was Italy, someone was in Spain. Richard was in Britain. I was in Hungary. And my other colleague, Lucy, was in Hungary too, but we are not in the... We are in personality contact. So it was another specialty thing in this movie, in this way. And that was nice when we started to work, started to write our stories, which will be in the play. And how we are thinking on the lockdown, in personality or from the other people, the stories from the news, which will be in the story. And the third thing, not just actors and writers, maybe, the story. We were cameramen, we were the lighting man, we were the... We make our background. Yes. And everything's happened. And yes. And the show must go on. Yes. Yes. And I really enjoyed it because when I make theater, I love to make the furniture, the props in the theater, directing theater performance. I love to make the props too. So if I play in the show, I build the theater before this art at the moment before the show starts, I bake down and start the show with an actor. Sure. And so it sounds like Tamás, you've said that there are lots of different people from a number of places. And Richard, you said that there were many stories, all of you brought stories with you. Can you tell me a little bit, Richard, about those stories? I don't know, Tamás, if you want to get your earpiece so we can hear you a little better. I know I think it fell off, yeah. Richard, if you can tell us a little bit about some of the stories. Yeah, I think it was really interesting what Tamás said there and it was just adding on to what I was saying. We really had an ownership of what we would do it. And even though we had people, other people from the theater who were the independent theater watching us and asking us to move things around. And again, I'm used to live performance as a performer. And you just keep going. And once you've done it, you've done it, you think I can do better next time. But when you're doing that, it's very easy for somebody who's watching you, our director here to say, let's do that again. Let's do that again. So there's quite a few things that we did it again and again. And I'm just like, I'm not used to this. But what also was important for me was it was very organic in many ways because we did become like a family. And we are different, Tamás and I had different generations. And for me, there was that nice intergenerational because I think sometimes in theater, sometimes, you know, TV or film, then we very much separate the generations. This is an older person, this is a younger person. And it was actually very inclusive, I found. And that was important to me because the stories that we had running through the European family were things that were happening to people outside in the real world. People were dying and people could not go to their funeral. And, you know, that's hard for anybody. But for people in the Romani community, it's doubly hard because there's like an obligation to go to, you know, if that person is a respected person, if you're connected in any way, there's an obligation, you know, even extended family or just somebody fairly well known. So there was that was in the play about this fact that, you know, somebody had died, but the rituals that we usually have, we couldn't do. You know, there's a lot of rituals within the Romani communities that we follow. And I realized that that was happening to people that they weren't able to do it. So the grief that they were having was becoming what we might call complicated grief. So we were, and then there's this difference between the generations. There are differences, obviously, and there are similarities, too. But we were playing around with all of those things. Yes. And it seems like, you know, this idea of a European family is quite beautiful, particularly because, you know, politically, there's so many kind of complications around Europe, you know, Brexit, all of that. But there's also something quite lovely that this is happening online in a digital way, where people can watch the work and see someone maybe from their country and, and also at the same time see a story from somewhere else that's through theater, not through the news, not through media, not through that political lens. So it's quite, I think, a really beautiful way to reflect on something that, you know, the world was going through, but through this very kind of specific context. Thomas, did you want to add anything about the stories that were coming up for you or that were part of, ended up being part of European family? Yes, that was so important and that was so interesting, as Richard said. The lockdown, there was families break down from each other. And there was another way in this story, because there's some situation when some piece, some part of the family, the boy, the children, who didn't want to go home. And it was a good chance to say, sorry, there is a lockdown, I couldn't go home, sorry, I had to stay here. And that was another interesting way. And that was a good chance to make some secret in the story, which came up during the story at the last part of the movie of the show. So there are some secrets, which is many thematic of the story. Yes. There are refugees in the camp who had to stay on that place, because there are the virus is locked down all the people, the refugees too. And there are some social worker who had to go to help them, had to go to care them during the virus. And they had to take their job harder than in normal way, in this situation. And there was a secret in this story, in that family. There was a guy who is a gay, who have a boyfriend. And this is the big secret, which came up in the story in the out. And this idea of grief, or of stories, of secrets is quite, I think, you know, an international, we all have, you know, a secret, we all have grief, we all have something that's very private. And so it's lovely that you, you know, the work was kind of looking at that and how to share that, because I think it's a, you know, that's one of the beauties of art and that we can create a space to look at maybe some things that might be taboo or difficult to talk about. And so do you have any feedback of how maybe people who watch the work, or even amongst, you know, you the actors in the group, how it was like to deal with these topics around grief and secrets, and to make sure that you present it in a way that's respectful, but still true to that, you know, to the story, was that something that came up for you guys? It was for me, I mean, for me, as a writer of my own community, as a writer about my community, then I feel a responsibility that I don't feel if I write about something else. So there is a responsibility because, you know, because of the space we exist in, in terms of racism, and all of the other things and lack of opportunities and so on and so forth for Romanian people around the world. We know that we're not in a, you know, a very strong position. So we have to be really, really careful as a writer that we take that responsibility. We don't want to do anything that's actually going to cause more damage. But on the other hand, we don't want to do something that's all sweetness and light and pretend that there aren't, that we're not real people. So that is a very fine balance which we're always considering all the time. So there's a responsibility and a very fine balance. And we thought about that and we talked about that. And I think we did, we did pretty well with that. One of the things we also wanted to reflect was the, the European family, you know, the stories that are in this, this play, this film, what everyone would call it, are universal. As you said, you know, families have this. And I think the particular character that Thomas played, he's away from home. He's living somewhere else. Now, when you come from a particular community, whatever that is, there is a certain freedom when you move away and people can't see what you do. So even if you're having Zoom calls and you're writing letters as people used to do or phone calls, you say, yeah, I'm fine. Because I'm still, you know, because I'm still practicing the community things. And of course, I'm still going to church, mother, and because I'm still doing this, whatever community is. But what happened, I think with the lockdown was that for some people that actually gave them more freedom, because they didn't have to interact. They didn't have to travel from wherever they'd gone to to come back home. They could just keep this facade going via the internet. But then of course, like everything else, most secrets and families come out. And when they do come out, you know, it causes shockwaves. So, and then, and then of course, in most families, as we find, there's a big secret, but actually, it's not a secret to everybody. People go, you know, we are new. Oh, yeah, I knew about that. In the universal themes, but we wanted to make sure that it reflected. And then in terms of feedback, there were lots of people I've spoken to since, who said everything from, oh, man, this is just like the best soap opera ever. Because, you know, when's the next one? You know, they wanted to see this family carry on. They actually had invested in it. And then of course, there are some people from the community who say, well, well, he wouldn't wear that shirt. But overall, enjoyed it. People enjoyed it. And I think they valued it. So yeah, so I was very, very pleased with the feedback I had. And Thomas, yes. Yes. As the same, many of the person who looked this video, they asked, okay, when is the next, when is the next step of this family? Because they started to love this family and this story. So it was so nice to thinking on and get this feedback. So it was a lovely family. And another way, I got some feedback from this whole symbolic this story. Because the center of the family, the mother and the mother is in Britain. Or somewhere in Europe, you know, because there was not concrete in the story, but where. But many of them thinking, okay, they are in Britain. And the others from the family go across in Europe, in other countries in Europe. And they broken. They couldn't get in conversation as the family. That was the sad way of the story. And the happiest way in the story, how they fight against the the far, how they fight against the problems and how they get the contact together. And it was the symbolic of the Romani people. Because if we are think us as a big family, there are no orders. There are no far. We can, we can fight against the far. We can, we can get in touch across the internet. We can get to work together. If we are one, we can do this. So that was the message for many, many people. You guys did that. You know, you did that. And what a beautiful, you know, I'm assuming you almost feel very proud that people want to know more that they were so invested in the work and that you could do that through this theater, film, play, you know, that was online. And so that's also, you know, it's, I know it's not easy to communicate feelings and to really engage people through this medium. And so the fact that you guys could, through the acting, through the editing, through the, the stories, you know, it's, it's a, you know, I would, I'm assuming you should be very proud and happy that you were able to do that. And also, you know, it's, it's not easy. I think some of, as you said, Richard, some of the topics you're talking about, and it's a fine line. And so I thinking about that, is there something that you want the audience to know about the work after seeing it? Is there a kind of key message? I think, Thomas, you started to talk about that, that if you want to do something, you, we can do it and that that's something true to the Romani community. Is there anything else that you'd like to, you hope the audience walks away with after seeing this work? I mean, for me, I would just, I would just like anybody to enjoy it, first of all, you know, just enjoy it. That's, that's what it's about. It's stories are there to be enjoyed, they're there to move us, they're there to remind us about ourselves. You know, if it, if it, if it makes somebody think and act slightly differently, maybe a bit more positively or something or provides a bit of comfort to their family, that would be great. I think the other thing professionally I would like it to do is to say, look, this was done during lockdown in our front rooms, with our families, we had to keep our families out of the way and the dogs out of the way and, you know, all this stuff going on, to make this little tunnel in our front rooms or wherever we were, you know, in my caravan sometimes, trying to get that business quiet and then the internet's not working properly because everybody's on the internet. So, you know, we did it, we did it in real life and we, and I think, you know, we're, I want people to see that we tried our best, you know, and we can write and we can produce things and this is probably a starting point. We can get better but we've got to start somewhere and I'd say to anybody, whatever community you're from, you know, don't be put off by Hollywood blockbusters and people telling you can't do, just tell your stories, you've got to start somewhere and someone somewhere will like it and then some more people might like it and then you get better and, you know, so that is for me is we've got to start somewhere. We've got to start to create this Romani, you know, this Romani stories and the independent theatre company in Hungary, just since they did the Roma Heroes in 2017, just worked tirelessly, non-stop, made an impact around the world and people are watching this around the world now and that gives me so much pleasure, I can't tell you. Yes, and I think, you know, that's such a, that came through to me in watching the work that it's about, you know, I could see values, you know, that there were decisions that were made and it was, there was something about holding on to some values, whether those were personal or made through the team, there was something quite beautiful about, you know, this is, as a unit, we want to share this work in this way, these stories, even though we're in different places. And so my last question is, where did the title come from, European family? Was that just that organically come up or was that proposed by someone? Richard laughing. I am laughing because I had a title in mind. It somehow got lost in translation, it got lost in internet, it got lost in, so it's somehow got confused. I was going to call it woke, mainly because it was a play on, on the word wake, which is, you know, when somebody dies, we have this and a lot of people, you know, use the word differently. So for us in our community in England, particularly, this thing is called wake because you sit all night with the deceased, you don't leave them on their own, you stay awake with them all night and you tell stories about them and you stay there all through the night until they're buried, whether it's the next day or the day after. So you sit up, you stay awake. And of course the word woke, very important that, you know, the father in this play gets a little bit more woke. So, but it has somehow that got lost. It sounds good, doesn't it? It sounds really, really good. But it somehow got lost in the email, I think. And so I don't know who it was, who just said European family. But yeah, we are, you know, we're a European family, we're a European family of artists. So yeah, I'm quite happy with that. So we'll save the woke one for another time. Yes, I mean, and, you know, that's a play on words there. Now it's used all the time. And so it would have been interesting to see if that was the title, what that would have, how that would have evolved. But there's something also quite lovely about European family. And I, you know, I think it's also quite fitting. So, you know, maybe the next play Richard or a book might use woke. Yes, is there anything else? Yes, Thomas, did you want to say something? Yes, that was the work title of this story, as Richard said, woke. And that was another title. During we are thinking on the titles of the story of this play, that was the European Roma family. And at the last editing, we are talking about this, because, okay, this is a story about Roma family. But all the stories, all the human stories and the heart in this story can be universal, not just for Roma people. It's enough to know they are Roma family. But in the title, it's enough, as we say, European family. Because if we are thinking in Europe as a big family, and if our countries wanted to work together and share the values in Europe and share everything, sharing the culture in Europe, we must think in this big place as a union. Yes, yes. And you know, there's that point about kind of the human, that the human is at the core of this. And the stories are all kind of, I think that's what makes them universal. And you guys did that so well, that while there were cultural elements in there, and cultural and also kind of country, those elements specific to various characters, there's also, but at the core, I think it's about the human and that human spirit. And I feel that's perhaps what comes through the most, why people really were able to find something in it, as both of you have said. And it's also, at the time of lockdown, the world was kind of coming together in a number of ways, and not coming together as well. And I think that that came in a bit with the story as well. So it feels quite reflecting the times, but also a hope for the future of, let's look at the human and let's see, you know, that that core of the person is really what matters, not the labels or the secrets or, you know, but it's about the person. Well, thank you so much both for sitting down and sharing your memories about creating the work, the title, acting in the work, and yes, and just making this work that is accessible and inclusive and so important and timely. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.