 Okay. Good morning. Good morning to everybody once again. Welcome to all the students here. Welcome to those who joined us on our e-platform as well. The last time we were at week four, and the last time we had kind of stopped halfway with the topic on the frame of reference. And I thought we'll just go through that once again because we hadn't yet completed that. We can go through that and just briefly give you a little bit more of a background and then we'll move into the next topic. So this is the continuation of last class which we have not completed. Just bear with me. I'll just share my screen. Is this visible? Yeah. Okay. All right. So we had started with looking at the last week. We were looking at the helping relationship and how does a councillor actually work alongside with a councillor? And one of the things that we said is, maybe I'll just move up a few slides. Okay. So what does the councillor need to do? We looked at the attitudes of the councillor last time. So what were the three attitudes we spoke about? Remember? Empathy, unconditional positive regard and genuineness. So these are the attitudes that are necessary for a councillor as they are in that relationship. So when you express that attitude, you are facilitating a learning process in the councillor for change. And we said there was EUA, right? And so we looked at exploration. So it helps the councillor understand what is going wrong, then understanding. They draw insights on what their problem is and they figure out goals. And last is action where they are moving into that change, into those strategies of change. Now how do you do that? So how do you do that? By entering into the frame of reference of the councillor. So that's where we had and we were looking at what does that frame of reference mean? The frame of reference is basically moving from your own world into the world of your councillor. And that's why we said the way in which the councillor sees their world. So that's all you are moving into. You get inside their shoes, getting into their skin, seeing life through their eyes. We had spoken about this. There are different kinds of frame of reference. One is external. So what is external? The way that I see you or you see me. That's the external view of reference. Internal view of reference is the way I see myself and you see yourself. What we are looking at is the way that when we are looking at the frame of reference in counselling, how do we respond? I can see the world the way that you are seeing it. So I understand your view of view. I remember we spoke of a house, right? If a neighbour, if you want to see the road through your neighbour's house, what should you do? You should get out from your house, go into their house and see it. Not look at it from the way that you are seeing it, right? So that's what the frame of reference means. So we also looked at how do you respond from an internal frame of reference is when your counselling makes a statement, you are responding from their side or from their end of it. Your response will lead to your counsellor's next statement. We had looked at that again. Sorry, just a minute. So when you as a counsellor respond from an internal frame of reference, you see this chain, this link. I hope you are able to see it. Those of you who don't have it, you have it. Because there is a PPT there. So you can probably log in to see the PPT. So it depends on what frame of reference you use. When you use an internal frame of reference, you will get a statement that matches the statement that you are making. So internal frame of reference, what does it need you to do? You need to understand the counselling on your terms. That's what you are doing on their terms. Sorry, more than looking at it from the way you see it. You are understanding the counselling from their terms. You are listening carefully. You are allowing the space for them to share whatever their problems or their stories is. You are also paying attention to the non-verbal language. You are responding to their feelings from their point of view. That is associated to the problem that they may be going through. We were looking at this. What actually involves a person's frame of reference? When you look at this slide, the big C is a client of the counselling and the small C is you. Either way, it doesn't matter. There is a certain background you come from, a certain culture you come from, certain experience you may have, expectations you may have. The same way, your counselling also comes from their own culture, their environment, their background, their education. Think of us all sitting over here. My experience is very different from your experience. If I need to understand your experience, I can't look at life from the way that I see it. Maybe I have grown all the way here in Bangalore always. Maybe you have come from a different state. I can't understand you if I am going to sit in this head of mine and say, okay, this is all I can see. But then I should be willing to get into your life, into your shoes. Asking those questions, feeling whatever you are saying, is what that frame of reference means. We were looking at how does our response, when does our response become irrelevant? I want to go back to that case that we started off with. Remember Mary's case? Not Mary, Susan's case. Remember Susan? They were all the same Susan only. I bought the same Susan up all the times. But remember she was saying about how she is fed up because her husband is prying on her and she has second thoughts of the marriage. So think of that case when we are looking at this. Now, when you make a statement like this, it's written down, why do you quarrel like that? You must be patient with him and love him. When you make a response like that, it becomes an irrelevant or an ineffective response. Why? So you are actually responding from your frame of reference. You are responding it from the way that you see it. So if you look at it, the circle that you see is the councillor's frame of reference and the councillor's frame of reference. So when you respond like that, it does not help. It runs parallely. You are saying something from your understanding and your councillor is saying something from their understanding. So it becomes very ineffective or it becomes irrelevant. When you say why do you quarrel like that? You must be patient with him or you are married to him. You ought to just probably be quiet or you ought to not have a divorce. So although maybe some of those statements are true, we are not reaching them from their frame of reference. So that's how it becomes an irrelevant response. Some of those responses we spoke about earlier becomes irrelevant because it's running parallel to any form of help because you are seeing it in the way that you would probably think of it or the advice that you would give but not from their frame of reference, not from the world she's seeing it. Got that? So for it to be effective, let's look at the next one. When does it become a relevant response? So what is the councillor doing over here? If you look at that, just the diagram, you see the councillor is entering into the frame of reference of your councillor and responding from there. So what are you doing? You're listening, you're guessing the feeling, you're trying to get a good guess of the feeling and you're communicating what you understand and you're probably also checking that understanding. So your response should get the feeling, pinpoint the feeling and the reason for that feeling. So you look at the statement there. You feel hurt because your husband is disappointed in you or you feel hurt because you're not able to reach your husband, whatever. You see that you have gone into the councillor's life to understand what she may be feeling when she's saying that. So that's very important. That's when you're pinpointing the feeling and you're responding from there. Right? Or you feel confused because you don't know what to do about your marriage. So there can be many responses. It's not just a single response, right? Because your councillor may be giving you many, in one sentence that she's saying, there can be many feelings that you can actually take out. So you listen, you're guessing the feeling and you're communicating that. So when you're doing that, what are you doing? You're actually helping the councillor explore what they are going through. So that's what it says. It stimulates, I said, remember, I said, when you enter into the frame of reference, it stimulates the learning process of exploration, understanding and action. So when you get into the frame of reference of your councillor, you're actually stimulating exploration. They begin to explore. Yes, I'm confused. Yes, I feel really hurt. Or I feel extremely bitter at this point of time. So they have explored and they begin to understand what they're feeling. Got that? All right? And then comes... Oh, okay. So what are some factors that you need to do in order for them to come to this exploration and understanding? You need to enter into their frame of reference. It's very, very crucial that every time you speak to a councillor, you come to this place where you're able to enter into their frame of reference. And once they have understood and once they have explored and understood, they begin to take action. And that's what you'll see in this slide. Okay? So look at the... Look at the dialogue in italics. Okay? So you, as a councillor, you've said, you feel frustrated because you can't find what it is about you that displeases your husband. So that's what maybe you as a councillor are saying. You know, you're... This is probably after a few conversations, right? You're saying you feel hurt because your husband is disappointed in you. So she says, yes, I don't know what to do to please him. I don't... I've tried so many things. I have no idea what to do. So she's saying that, right? So then you may say, you feel your frustration must be quite high because you can't find what it is that displeases you. And so she says, yes, exactly. And then it says, the councillor is saying, you want to find out what it is about you that displeases him. A helpful way may be to explore all areas of your personality in relation to him. So you see that the councillor has moved in the direction of an action now. So what is she doing? I don't know... She's saying I don't know what displeases him. But you know, you're saying maybe a good way is to understand what about your personality is that annoys him. Would you like to look into what maybe your behaviors or what you do actually contributes to the problem? So that's what you're doing. You're actually moving them from that place of exploring understanding to a place of action. She says then she may say, yeah, I really want to answer. Or she may say, no, I'm not ready for that. I'm so hurt. So then you know that you still have to keep on helping her explore those feelings more and more till she's in a place to say, okay, I'd like to find out what is it that works that will help me sort this out. Maybe I should look at myself. So you see how the focus has moved away from the husband to herself, right? Because that's what you need to do in counseling. You can't change the other people in the environment. You can't, right? What you're doing is you're getting them to think about ways they can, number one, look at their own problems or their issues, bring about the change and how they can work that change so that their environment will change. You get that? And that you can do only when you enter into their frame of reference. For example, maybe another way to say is you want to find out what is it that displeases him. What do you think are some behaviors in you that you could change to make your relationship better with your husband? So what are you doing? You're making her think about what is it that she could do to sort this out. She may say, maybe one thing I must do is really speak up. When I'm upset, I must speak up. So good. So you've got her to act upon something. She's come to a place where she's able to act. So this understanding and exploring should move into that place of action, getting them to act on whatever their concern or their issue is. All right? Did you get that? Okay. Because if you're going to say you get that, I'm going to give you certain examples and we're going to start that. Okay? All right. Before I do that, I'll just show you what are some responses that come from an external frame of reference. He's your husband. No. After all, does that come from an external frame of reference? Yes. Right? Oh, you poor thing. How are you managing? Right? Or you let yourself get upset far too easily. Now, these are things we say to our friends. No. Right? Or you could change all this by just feeling differently. Just begin to feel differently. Or I think you're doing the right thing by not letting him step on you like that. Now, this is all from the way that you may be seeing it. Right? As against internal frame of reference is you seem upset with his behavior. You feel annoyed when he doesn't give you space. You feel disappointed at the way he treats you. You're worried that if this goes on, your marriage can be in danger. So you see, there are so many feelings that you can actually get from what is happening. Right? So I want you to remember that this isn't a one-off statement. That you say this once and then ready, you're ready for action. No. It may go many times up and down and up and down and up and down till you kind of sense that, you know, they are able to explore their feelings and go through whatever has happened and then bring up the question of, you know, if you find that your marriage is in danger, if there was one thing you could do about it, what do you think you would do about yourself? Then you've moved them into action. Then they may say, no, I'm still very upset. I still am very angry. So, you know, that's not the right time you have to come back and continue to help them to express what they are feeling. What? Okay. So I said this example that I took. Okay. So I may say you're worried that if this goes on, your marriage can be in danger. I may say that. So she says, yes, I'm very, I'm concerned that, you know, if this goes on like this, we'll be separated. Right. And so then I kind of think, okay, let me try and see if she's ready to move into action. So I may say, if there's one thing that kept your marriage out of danger, what is that one thing you would relook about yourself? Right. So I've changed the entire sentence in such a way to help us see that, you know, if she could save that marriage, what would she like to do? Right. The action. So she may say, okay, I should probably speak up. I should whenever I'm hurt, I should speak up. She may say that or she may say, no, I can't think of any of that. I'm so upset. I'm so hurt. I'm very angry with him, which means I know she's not ready for action yet. So I will go back into exploring that anger. So I may ask, I can see that it's really, you know, you're filled with that anger. Could you tell me more? So then I'm helping her express a little bit more. And then I may get her to move into that action. If that anger could be resolved, what is that one thing you'd like to do? So again, I'm trying to move her into another form of action. Right. So counseling is basically not that one way you may need to explore this way, that way to get them to really deal with whatever they are going through. Maybe it's the anger she is, she needs to deal with right now more than much, because that's what I found out. So I help her to explore that. Got that? Okay. All right. Shall we go to... Oh, okay. Sorry. There's more. Now, if you needed to initiate action, right, I said the first we were talking about is just feelings. If you needed to initiate action from the internal frame of reference, you may say things like this, you seem upset with his behavior and you're hoping to discuss this with him. So what is the action here? Discussion to discuss with him. Right. Or you feel annoyed when he doesn't allow you space and you're looking at ways you can let him understand your need. So what is the action here? Right. She may tell him something so that he can understand. That becomes an action, right? Okay. Or you feel upset, disappointed at the way he treats you. Have you considered talking to him about your feelings? Okay. That's again an action point. You're worried that if this goes on, your marriage can be in danger. Help me understand what could both of you work on to save this marriage. Again, you see action points here, right? So it's what you're doing is in none of this do you see that you're giving a suggestion, right? You are getting them to think about what saves their marriage or how she can talk to him about his feelings. How can she discuss her need? All of this comes from as a question. It hasn't come as a statement. You get that? Okay. All right. So let's look at some examples. All right. Now this is even for the online students, I'd like you to also respond. Okay. So you could either unmute and speak or put in your thoughts. So I've kept the next couple of minutes just for example, so that you know, we get this thoroughly before we move on. Because if we don't get this, it's going to be hard. All right. So the person is saying, I'm worried sick. I don't sleep well and I'm afraid for the kids. We're so short of money and my husband has started to drink again. What? How will you respond? Don't tell me what you will do. I don't want to know what you will do. What is the first thing you will say? You know what? Why don't you write it down? Take some time to write it down and then say because otherwise, it gets difficult. So if you'd like to write down, please do that. Online students, you could also respond please. Not you could also, you must also respond. So first think about what should you be thinking about? Empathy. Okay. So what should you be looking for? Yeah. What is the first thing you need to know? What do you think this person's feeling? What is the significant feeling? Frustration. Yeah. Okay. Sadness. Tension. She said one. She said I'm worried sick. She's worried. Worried. Then what else? We're so short of money and my husband has started to drink again. What is that feeling? A lack or a fear. Fear that. Right. So you've identified that through this so many feelings have come out, right? Okay. Now. Attach the feeling to to the why you feel dash because so come on. Try. Francis. Want to try? Okay. Yes. I really empathize with you. Okay. So Anthony. When you say that, that becomes a very general statement. Right. So it's probably. So why is it necessary to pick up specific details is because your counseling would have learned to sorry, would know that you have paid very close attention to the details. They are saying yes, Prince, so you have to pinpoint the feeling. So write a statement for me of what you will say. Are you afraid? Where will this lead your family? Okay. So if in other ways you could say it another way. You seem to be afraid because you don't know where this will lead your family. Good. That's good. Okay. So you're putting it as a statement more than a question. Right. Unless you are unsure, if you're not sure that this is afraid, you wouldn't ask this question. Others, you can put it as a statement. You seem afraid because you don't know where this will lead your family. Excellent. Wonderful. Good. Thank you. You're writing. Nikhil. Writing. Francis. Thinking. Okay. Come on. I need a few more responses. That's sad to hear. You look very distressed. Okay. So more than. So again, but when we say things like maybe that's sad to hear or oh, you poor thing. It looks more than a question. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's more sympathetic than empathetic. Okay. So it's a good thing not to use words and not to use statements like oh, so sad or, you know, it, it's, it's, it's so terrible for you. Right. So it makes it a little bit more sympathetic than empathetic. So you, you've got one part of it. You look very distressed. That's good. So you look very distressed. You know, say why you look very distressed because it doesn't look like you've slept very well and, and you seem to be extremely afraid. Right. Or you look really distressed because you don't sleep. You can pick up any thing that you think has bought. Sometimes they emphasize on one certain thing. Jack, you've written you must be feeling really stressed and overwhelmed again. Why? Because that will help you to build your action. Right. So you, when you say you must be feeling really stressed and overwhelmed because, because your finances are short. Right. Now that becomes your action point. Something about the finances you may want to bring up as an action point. Right. So always try and bring up not always as best as possible. Maybe in your initial conversation, you may just, it's okay to just say you feel stressed and overwhelmed. But then as the conversation goes on and they're building on that stress and overwhelm, you may need to have the, a behavioral point so that you can build an action on that. Okay. Yeah. Anymore. Okay. Good. But there are too many sentences or too many questions. So what, when, when you're saying this, what should she pay attention to? Uh-huh. Okay. So there, is there any possibility to speak with your husband becomes a direct suggestion? Isn't it? So you could say something, you feel extremely stressed and disappointed. If there was one thing that you could do to sort this with your husband, what would that be? So I haven't given a suggestion. If there was one thing you could do to work this with your husband, what would you do or what would it look like? So she may say, maybe I should talk to my husband's brother or maybe I should talk to my husband itself or maybe I should, you know, not go home today. I don't know. There can be very many things. So you're not suggesting one specific thing. You're not getting her to understand how she'd like to work that out. Right? So you, you may know that something has to be done with what is happening with the husband. So you could ask something like, if there was one thing that you can do about the situation, what is that one thing you do? So I haven't said about the husband. So you're giving a direction of, of the action point. But nevertheless, we just say, if you had to pinpoint the feeling in-person students, use your mic when you share your responses so that we can hear. You want to repeat that? Repeat it so that they can hear. Okay. Next time on, we'll do that. Thanks. Thanks, Prince. Okay. So, yeah. So even here, Jack, when you've written, would you consider discussing the situation with your husband? It's again, becomes a very direct suggestion. Right? So, don't look, right now, I'm asking, please don't look at action. Let's not look at action. Just look at how you can explore, pinpoint the feeling. Just focus on that. Use the mic. I mean, how the judge inside also, like if you are telling her to discuss or to talk, it's literally mean that we are giving suggestions, right? So, so we should not do. So, we can ask what you could do to resolve the problem like that, we can. So, you can say, you seem extremely discussed in what action. Right? It appears that you feel you need to do something. So, if there was that one thing you could do to change the situation, what would it look like? What would you do? Right? The other side of the coin is, like, if you are asking like that, if she can do something and well, she might be doing by herself only, right? Why she will come to us? Like, what is the need of us to asking them? Like, what you can do? So, very often, when someone comes to you, very often, people know that there should be something they have to do. When you're coming with a problem, even if you're confused, somewhere, they may have an idea or they may have some kind of an inkling which may not have been well thought of. But in a conversation, so when I'm talking to you, a lot of things become crystal clear in my head. Right? I'm talking to you about something and as you are voicing out and as you're talking about it, you begin to say, maybe I should try this. Or you know, I've thought about it, maybe now I should do it. So a conversation really helps to build that idea. And, okay, so suppose she may know, she needs to talk to her husband. But, how is she going to do it? What is she going to say? When does she want to do it? Who should be there? All of that happens while we are conversing. So you're actually building that conversation to a point that when she leaves the session, she says, okay, I'd like to go do this today. Because she's spoken about it, she's given it that much of details. Got that? So, you just think about yourself when you have a problem. The more that you talk to somebody about it, the more ideas you get. Isn't it? Right? Or the more that you write it out, you'll say, okay, now I know what to do. So, people do, and that's why they come, to be able to get clarity about what should be done. Or a direction they should go. What they can do? Can we consider giving some suggestions like how they can do it? Again, more than giving the suggestion to elicit it from them. Like for example, she says, okay, I think I must talk to my husband about this. My question will be, when do you think would be the right time to do it? Okay, I'm not saying do it today. She'll say, maybe I will do it tomorrow because my husband is this, this, this, this. So she says, okay, all right. So, the when has come out, she said she will do it, do it tomorrow. Okay? So then I'll say, if you were to speak about this, what is the first two things that you would want to tell him? So then, she may say, okay, I want to talk about no money. I want to talk about this. I'm not giving her the suggestion because in my mind, I'm saying, okay, she needs to do money or she needs to do about kids. In my mind, but she may say, no, don't drink again or she may say something else. I don't know, right? So, when I'm saying, what are the two things that you would want to do or what are the two things you will tell him when you're discussing this? Okay? Then she's, she may say this. So then I may give a, what if, what are you expecting his response to be? I'm giving a more imaginary question for her to prepare for let's say, he doesn't listen or he goes and drinks again. I'm preparing her. So I'm saying, what if, what do you expect the response to be? So she may say, I think he will go back and drink again. Right? So I said, okay, all right. So if that happens, what would you do next? We'll give a break here. So if she tells, like, like, what you're going to do, like in, in what way you're going to speak? And then if, if she's a, if you feel, if you're a counselor, if you are a counselor, if you feel like, that's a, that's a thing that should not do. Like, she should not speak like that. So can we stop her there and that we can suggest? Maybe, maybe, you should not do. What are you saying? What is she going to go to the police? Okay. And you, you, while you're thinking, you're saying, okay, maybe that's some, I won't tell her, you know, that's not a good idea. What I will say is, okay, if that's what you want, okay, let's look at the pros and the cons. What could be the benefits of this? What could be the problems in this? Doing that. Right. So I'm making her think, okay, the benefit will be one, two, three, the problems will be 10. Maybe. So she herself is talking about it. Right. So then I say, okay. So when you evaluate that situation, do you, what do you think about that idea? Is that something you want to do? And she may say, no, looking at the many negatives, maybe I should try something else. Okay. If not for this, what else could you do? You know, so you're actually helping her to do the thinking. You're not doing the thinking for her, but you're directing the conversation in such a way that she can think about, is this the right situation or the solution to do? Right. Oh, let's suppose she says, okay, I'm going to go to the lawyer and get a divorce. What if she says that, right? So maybe that's again, another question that says, okay, if by doing that, I'm going to ask her, what's going to change for you today? Nothing's going to change today. All right. So is there something that you would want? So I'm de-focusing from that. Okay. I will have a divorce into, if there was something that can be changed today or something you can do to change this situation of the money, what's the first thing you will do? Get that? In English, we should not direct them. We should not give any suggestions, direct suggestions to them or else we should not ask questions also. But we can, we can make them think. So actually all of counseling is about questions, good questions and empathizing. These are the two main things that you will find in counseling. Good questions. Good questions. So that's why you should, the more you learn to get good questions, the better your sessions will be more enriched. Okay. Because they're doing the thinking themselves. Finally, they will say, okay, this person didn't tell me anything, but I'm very clear in my head. Why? Yeah. Exactly. But you have come to that, the counseling has come to that point that they have become, they have had clarity on what they should do. And all you did was responding to them with empathy. And also you have, you have not judged them for what they've done. I didn't say, oh, divorce is not a good thing. You can't divorce. I didn't say that. I only said, okay, what is that? How is that going to benefit you? Or what could be the problems that come from that? So I've looked at two ways. So she herself has thought about it, right? Judgment there. And then just, I'm just being very genuinely interested in what will happen to her. So these are attitudes is what really helps you to work with people rather than being judgmental or giving them suggestions, all of that. Okay. I think someone else. Yeah. You want to say something, Nina? I mean, that's like, I know, we can say like this, I know you're very, very much worried and stressed out now. Right now I'm sending you some food. Take rest. We will, we will see to this after, after later. So, so when they're coming to you, they're actually coming to talk. Right? So, so that, that again, I mean, I don't think it's not a bad thing to do. But as a conversation, you're really, what do you want is to, for them to, yeah. So you may need to, you know, you could say, you know, you seem, you seem worried, you seem distressed. It appears like you haven't eaten also. You know, have you eaten anything today? You can definitely ask that, right? And maybe after the session, would you like that I get you something or that is something that you definitely can, it doesn't become the focus, right? Because we're moving away from the focus of what she's probably trying to tell you. Okay. All right. Let's try and look at another example. Yes, Nina. I think you've raised your hand. Go ahead. Nina. Yeah. I don't know if I'm, I'm still behind. I mean, I've been listening to what has been said. Are you able to hear me? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm not sure if I'm coming back. But maybe we could say since we want her to come up with the direction as to where she would like to go. So, I would say that this must be really difficult. But what would you like to do or where do you want to start? To kind of, yeah, to take this problem, this problem thing forward. So, is that okay? I mean, I don't know if we have gone forward. We've gone ahead in the thing, but that's what I thought. Yeah. Is that okay? Yeah. Your response is excellent. That is, that's, yeah, I do agree. We may have gone a bit ahead. Yeah. And when she's probably telling you this the first time, you need to stick with it for some time till all the emotions are out. And then you could probably say, yeah, all of this sounds really difficult. It's hard for you to take. If there's one place you'd like to start, what's the first place? That's an excellent response as well. Okay. But maybe that's a little later into the, into the conversation. Okay. Okay. Let's look at one more, one more, one more example. Yeah. I hate it when the other boys tease me. Don't they realize I have feelings too? Oh my, okay. Yeah. Your responses. What would you say? Francis, what to say? Say what will you tell them? I hate it when the other boys tease me. Don't they have, don't they realize I have feelings too? I was like, I don't know is it good? It didn't be effective or not, but first question will be like, as a counselor, I last like, I understood like, what you're feeling. What's the feeling? No, no, I understood. Like, you will feel something. What are the feelings? Okay. Yeah, you will feel sad when other boys tease, like, then how do you want to overcome that? So, how do you want to be like with other boys? How are you thinking? No action. I think all of that is action, right? How do you want to be? What should you do? All of that is getting into an action to resolve this. We're not looking at that. We're just looking at, how can you figure out or pinpoint this feeling? Anybody else? Okay. Jack is written, oh, you must be feeling so hurt. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm so sorry to hear that. I feel like you are so distressed by this. Can I go to action? No, no, no, no. This is just kidding. And students, online students. Okay. Prince says, it seems you're broken because they're not realizing that you have feelings too. Very good. Very good. Good Prince. He's a counselor. Yeah, he's a counselor. Nikhil. I would like to also ask, like, what are you feeling? So that. So what do you think they're feeling? You should be able to guess the feeling. Like you're looking so sad. Okay. So I would like to ask like that. He will tell something. So you're looking sad. All right. So you can say something like, it must be so isolating for you that everyone is teasing you and you feel all alone. Right. So, you know, they would build on that. What you're saying. Why is it important to really pinpoint the feelings because you're, you're counseling. He's going to build on what you're saying. Okay. Anyone else from online students? Anyone else who'd like to. Those who haven't answered, please, please attempt because this is important. This is practical. Nobody. Okay. Let's try another one. Okay. Next one. You're able to see that, right? No. Why aren't you able to see that? I've got to take this off. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I've got to take this off. One minute. Okay. Anthony said, you must be feeling so unhappy when you're teased. Very good. That's also good. Okay. Next one. I work so hard all day and I dislike coming home to a sulking wife and demanding children. I work so hard all day and I dislike coming home to a sulking wife and demanding children. Sulking means no. Sulks, you look very annoyed and very disappointed. You don't have a happy face. Okay. What will you say? Yes. Okay. So build on that. More than when you say, I can understand pinpoint at what the feeling could be. It must be really hard of coming home and seeing the faces of your family. It may, it probably looks very unwelcoming to you that they don't, they don't look happy to see you. Yeah. What would I say? That must be tiring for you to handle things at home after a long work day. Okay. It must be a burden to handle. Very good. Good, good. I'm going to turn the floor a bit. Anymore? You know, actually we should be having more conversations on this, which we'll probably have later. I'll pick each of you and you all should be, we'll talk about a problem. I'll be the counselor. Maybe I'll talk about the problem and then we keep having the conversation. This is just one, one, one line. In some time we'll have more greater things. Okay. It's fun. All right. Let's try one more. We have two more minutes. Let's try one more. Okay. When my wife and I were together, we did a lot for others. After she died, I'm much more selfish. Okay. So Prince, I said for the earlier one, it drives you more after working for a long day. Good. Very good. Okay. This one. New one. When my wife and I were together, we did a lot for others after she died at much more selfish. So what are the different emotions you can, your wife's death has a great impact on you? Very good. Excellent. Yeah. Your wife's death was probably very impactful for you. Good. And so what do you expect when you say a sentence like this from this person? Yeah. But what do you think they may share? He may share. Yeah. So what are you doing through that? They're actually, I think in exploring what they feel and what they're going through. Right. So that's excellent. Okay. It must be a difficult thing for you to handle things alone. Okay. Good. So you can say that it really appears that you are missing your wife a lot. Right. And a lot of things that you all did together, you know more can do. That's good. You can say that. Right. Remember, there's no, when you're dealing with a feeling, there is nothing wrong, anyway. Exactly. So that's, that's what we should move away from. It's not about suggesting. It's about feeling what they feel. That's, you're entering into the frame of reference every time that you're doing that. Not the normal. Yeah. We're normally very good clue to do, to say, give a suggestion. Right. Okay. Prince said, are you feeling sad than your normal being generous like before when you're with your wife? Are you feeling sad? Then, then, can you hear me? Sorry, Prince. I'm not able to read that well. Can you unmute and say that once? Hello. Can you hear me, ma'am? Hello. Hello. Mike. Ma'am, can you hear me? Can you hear me? Good. Very good. Good. So losing, losing a spouse can be very challenging. And it, I find that it's manifesting itself in its behavior or other ways. Very good. Excellent. Good. You're like getting it. Very good. Very good. Very good. Okay. Let's have a break and we'll come back. Excellent. Good job.