 And it's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa. Now we're costing this conversation, you know, to the other side of the divide. Hopefully we'll join the newsroom at nine o'clock for the new spree. We'll be joined by, I guess this morning to talk about the issue of gender inequality. Well, the argument for or against gender inequality is a conversation that has remand in the corridor of global debate. And so it's not limited, you know, to Nigeria. However, studies have revealed that gender inequality negatively impacts the economy. As inequality is a problematic issue it lowers the well-being and as it's regard that as a form of injustice in every conception of equity or equality. Now that's been a lot of advocacy by both government and civil society making a case for gender equality and providing equal opportunities over the years. Recently, government at all levels have been urged to work vigorously towards achieving gender equality in all sectors of the country. We talk about Nigeria now. The president and founder of Women in Mining in Nigeria engineer Janet Adeyemi has said that gender inequality particularly violence against women and children remains a source of concern in Nigeria. Now the question is what factors are contributing to gender inequality? Now joining us to make a sense of this conversation is Honourable Engineer Janet Adeyemi who's the president and founder of Women in Mining in Nigeria, right in Ligas. It's good to have you join us, Janet Adeyemi. Right in me and I'm excited that this is a front baller debate. All right then. So whenever we talk about, you know, gender inequality what exactly are we talking about? Gender inequality simply means that two different sexes, men and women or boys or girls, and girls don't have equal access to opportunities. The opportunities can be in terms of economic opportunities, material opportunities, any form of opportunities or even behavioural opportunities where one does a thing, you condemn it, and the other one does the same thing and he escapes. So inequality is just about that. So when people are equal, you understand, you treat them equally because they are both human beings. But over time, I mean there's been a lot of emphasis on women whenever we talk about gender inequality. Why is that the case? Several factors are responsible for it but most of it is culture and tradition. You and I, we agreed as even till now when a girl when a woman gives birth to a male child, the excitement is there in the air. These days when you do gender revelation, that is the Gen C age, when you do gender revelation you can see excitement all over the place when it pops out blue. Oh, they say we have a male child. The female child is inferior. So that is one of the major factors. Workplace culture, leadership, you don't have role models, lack of education. These are major things that have played parts over time that has caused this suppression, stereotyping to make you believe that girl child is not so important, it's not significant to understand and so that has created a lot of things from political discourse, economic power. My question is why is it that the emphasis is always on, I mean gender equality, whenever we say gender equality is not restricted to a certain gender, that's the female gender but I'm asking why the emphasis over time has always been on the female gender. It looks like the man has been excluded from it. So when we talk about gender equality, it looks like it's only the women that are always excluded or the victims. You see, it's a misconception. Why it seems as if it's the women that I defend if I understand your question is that right now if you look at the balance, it's tilted towards the women. You understand the women are quite marginalized, they are not on the same. Whereas when you look at the population of Nigeria as we speak today, I try to go even through the statistics. You find that men are more than women but when it comes to the issue of sharing resources or anything, you find that the women have the lowest number. Go to global index, you look at the numbers, the numbers are embarrassed and Nigerians are sliding down. So you find that when you talk of inequality in whichever way you want to look at it, it affects the women more. When you talk about equality, so normally in equality, both boys and men and women boys and girls must be treated but right now as of this age, as of this time, women are more marginalized than men. Over time, because like I keep on saying, give it another 20, 30 years, you will be amazed because most men are now dropping out of school, they are hustling and they are being distracted by lots of things, drugs and food. You find that more women might even be in positions where we start talking about boy child. In fact, Legos started addressing the issue of boy child. Why do we have, I mean, this situation persisting because we hear that it might get worse. You know, there was a gender bill that was introduced at the National Assembly some time ago. It failed to see the light of day. It failed to be passed. There were protests all over the place and there was some sort of compromise. On the ground, we are not seeing a significant improvement, some will say, in bringing the gender gap. But some will argue that that is not the case, that women have the same rights in Nigeria as men do. So where do you stand on this? And then if you disagree with those who say women have the same rights and opportunities and that it's getting better, why is it not getting better? It's not getting better because you see some things that are deep rooted. And culture and norms are the most difficult things to change. If you look at it as we speak, I'll give you a typical example. Let me go back to women in mining, for instance. Some women went to site and they had accidents because they were being abused by the men. You understand that is the form of transportation they use. When you allow women to sit on a truck, you see the sacks of minerals. And unfortunately when they got to one of the bad spots, they think us threw them up and come and see them flying out of their vehicle with the babies and they died. So today we tried to trace a truck owner, the police and everything. They were frustrated and a few women who survived, they were so scared of saying anything because they were a lot of the ladder. Their husbands probably told them, shut up, you can't do this. So you find out that socially they are excluded, materially they are excluded. So where they can even engage in conversations are minimal. That does not mean that a few are able to shoot up and what is the number. So you are comparing figures now. So in Nigeria you have in girls in wireless, you have the OB, you have so many of them like that. But what percentage are they? You can count them on your fingertips. And what has limited these things are education, culture, stereotyping, even behavioral assessments, where when a man does his thing, look at corruption and let's be corruption. I remember I became a joke in Nigeria. Women are stealing. How many women are in old government that are stealing compared to the men that are stealing? You understand corruption? I'm not approving corruption, but that's the level of stereotyping how women are being condemned. So for me, these factors still hold women down. You understand, they are still not the number they should be. Okay. But I also like you to establish the connection with, I know you have mentioned it in the passing in the course of responding to the previous question. But what exactly are examples with the connection with inequality, gender inequality and violence against children and women? Is there a connection? There's a major connection because in fact when you look at it, look at countries where they virtually have women and men that is their equity. Such countries are peaceful because there's no reason for anything. Everybody know their rights, they can assert their rights. So there's no, there's no, the Leviathan law have a way of always, principles have a way of always springing up. One wanting to oppress the other because the moment you know you have a superior power or you have access to some things and the other one does, you know, the nature of man, you understand, is to tend to oppress. But when you know you have equal standing or you have equal footing, you have access to the same legal procedures, you have access to everything. In terms of workplace, you have authorities you can respect or report to. There's no one who is going to prefer the other one against you. Then you'll find that the level of intimidation is extremely, extremely low in such societies. No wonder countries like Sweden, like Norway, like Finland, like Canada, like France, you understand, will compare to countries like ours, you understand, where even the man, look at COVID when women were locked down. The rate of violence also increased, you understand, you would look for things to vent your anger on and you go after the weaker ones, you understand, to vent your anger on them, you know. So how then do we, you know, a proper solution? I mean, I know that over time, like I mentioned in the opening, there's been several advocacy plans. You have civil society organizations, different groups just like yourself, different persons advocating the course of equality in our society, but that same, you know, not to be recording significant progress. So. In Varada is sliding, because when you look at the Nigerian index, you understand, global global index, in 2021, you understand, there was 139 out of 153. And recently, in 2006, 94 out of 153. So we are going down rather than going higher. So what are we not doing right? So I think, well, I think government needs to expand, government needs to increase budgeting and make concerted efforts to create role models who are committed to hand-holding. Because when you have role models, mentors, you are looking at like, we started a program we called Girls of Mining. Because we had a research fund to look at mainstreaming into the mining sector. And in our course of capacity building, you find that there are some things you can change. People who didn't go to school can just not comprehend what you are teaching, because it's a technical area. So what did we do? We decided to reach out to girls in secondary school and we picked about 10 different schools in each state. And we decided to start focusing on those ones, create an app with which we created a community to be able to reach them. And I can tell you that when different groups, different associations start doing that, focusing, you see the Nigerian Society of Engineers are doing the same thing that is up well. I was reading about it, Dr. Abilo, they are doing the same thing. So we always just have to keep on doing this, continue to mount pressure to make sure, and not that in the course of doing it, we must be equally systematic in what we are doing. Looking at the data, looking at methods of intervention, strategic methods of intervention, because what applies in the north does not necessarily apply in the west. What applies in the west does not necessarily apply in the east. So we must look at local situations and find ways of ensuring we get to these children to be able to ensure they get educated. And then we must equally build up our advocacy strategy to national assembly, when I start to traditional leaders to religious institutions, and let them know why it is very important for instance to make sure that the child is educated in airborne in state, for instance, when we went to airborne in state, we engage the community leaders who do not allow women to normally sit with them in CDA, that is in drawing up agreements or getting consent, but today they change because the moments you neglect 50% of yourself, that is half of yourself, you cannot go, you mentioned it in your narrative, you understand. The economics potential of such an area is eroded already because even if you have to get experts to work, you have to pay those experts compared to when you have your own local conditions, when you can train up your own people and use a lot and keep on bringing expertise from China and everything to come and fill up your space. The local economics will develop, the national economy will develop and then you will find that everybody will be happy, not this first happiness of every weekend, but it will be real happiness, you can see that at every little thing, people trip to the street to want to destroy to want to do, it is because there is tension everywhere, yes you can say the men, where you have the men and the women working at par and successful, the tension in the society it is advocacy, education interventions, different interventions at all hands, whether in churches, everywhere we must make sure we keep on talking about education for all in the actual sense of it, but because the girls are the ones really marginalized now, concentrate on the girls and make sure you give them what is due. You have pretty much covered the main areas of this conversation . You know that you have already said that they are apart from the constitutional angle, of course the Nigerian constitution provides for gender equality, it provides for non-discrimination, but these still does not mean that discrimination against women is taking care of, it still exists. You have talked about looking beyond just the constitutional amendment and going through that education and advocacy, but even when you look at education and advocacy, concerted effort by all concerned men and women the question of religion is a big one because when it comes to religion it is always a difficult pushback, even from women themselves, religion is a very powerful phenomenon and we are deeply religious in it. How can the challenge of religious norms that go against gender equality and bridge the gender gap, how can it be overcome, be addressed and be tackled? I think the issue of role models we are hand holding and role models come up because I have quite a number especially in the north, I have quite a number of northern friends who are Muslims, who are educated and very well educated. For instance, the first vice chancellor of the University of Abuja we are all together in the University of London UK and she came home, she became a VC I am talking of Lara and there are quite a number of other northern women who have occupied positions. If these women, you understand, would be bold enough to champion advocacy issues. I tell you Richard the culture is embedded in religion. If you look at the way of dressing Christianity, it is because of the climatic environment where they are you know, where they wear white and then they look at the Muslims and the Christians in the Middle East, their dressing is similar because of the scorching heat and things like that. So religion itself is not static per se, it keeps evolving. If these women get committed into advocacy and actually dedicate their time and their lives, you understand to say, we want to leave a legacy. We don't want to be selfish about it. I tell you, the women were not going to school before, but none other women are going to school. They are even more in politics, you know, they are even having more political opportunities than those of us in the south, you understand. So for me, I believe that the only way out of this thing is to free their leaders, you free their religious masters, you understand of whatever shackles of ignorance you understand and make sure. Because the silver bullet to development, I tell you, is education. How give women education, even if you don't have that degree, make sure you have some semblance of education that can make you operate the computer because we are now in a digital age where everything is digitalized, you understand. Where you can communicate with people, where you can do your business, convenient you without relying on anybody and until, and education is even to go as even the food you eat, everything is embedded in education so that these ladies, you understand, just have to be committed. Government and its own cannot do anything because even government says free school, yes go to that free school, people will still not go but if you're able to convince people, you understand, to let them see the input and let them see the advantage of what education can bring, I tell you, people will shift ground and you can see them shifting ground already. You have spoken, you know, really to these issues that we have to address it from our cultural and traditional beliefs, you know, encouraged that's the only way we can, you know, get to the solution of all of this because at the end of the day, you probably have policies without implementation who implements these policies, the people and how can you believe, you know, do what you don't believe in, you know, that's a lot of, you know, challenge right there for the people but thank you so much, we have to go now to the honorable engineer, Janet Adeyemi, thank you for being with us this morning. Thank you so much. Thank you. Alright, then we have been speaking with the woman and she's the president and founder of Women in Mining in Nigeria, Raachan Lagos, she shared her talk on the issue of gender but, you know, it's just me sitting here advocating the cause of men, thinking that whenever we talk about gender equality it feels like the men are left out, you know, for the time being. You see, you did well. You know, because you asked questions dispassionately and you tried to bring balance to this, you know, and you allowed me to talk as well. Yes, but anyway we'll look at what the CBN is doing, maybe tomorrow, she might Yeah, she might. So there's something, I mean we're costing this conversation down now but we can just have this little time. There's something I just saw, some people saying that all along, could it be that the president had been behind you know, the directions that we've been having from the CBN Yeah, yeah, it feels like he's been giving directions. It may have been codedly let's just permit, we used the word telling Nigerians that the president has been behind it. You look at his speech, the last one where he apologized to Nigerians and said they want to extend the deadline and then when the deadline was extended, he said the president had approved go back to that first speech you see he kept saying the president and over you know, so I think it's now clear that's what it seems like. Alright please follow us on social media that's my speculation by the way follow us on social media plus cvafrica, Facebook, Twitter Instagram and YouTube, we have a second YouTube account plus cvafrica lifestyle, my name is Kofi Bartels it's goodbye from this side. Alright, and thank you for joining us, I am Messi Ibuquo, we joined the newsroom at 9 o'clock for the news brief, please stay with us good morning.