 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer, and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tyler. How you doing Tyler? What's up? That's not a little weird to me. That's not a little weird to you Tom. I mean we have the OG here a little bit Tyler is the official co-host this week. Tom is the guest. It is written in the thing That is the official weekly schedule Tom got a week off last week because he was Because he wasn't at Nova like a loser. That's okay. I had Adam and John stand in so it was a great time had by all Tom has a horrible horrible headache tonight. So everybody send Tom some positive vibes. He's soldiering on but You know, it's like he's got a migraine situation. So Tom we feel bad for you and I'll try not to yell in your ear I'm here and I'll provide commentary To the degree I'm able yes So if Tom seems a bit off or down or anything like that, please don't beat him up He's just he Tom also can't take headache medicine. So when these happen, he just suffers I want everybody to understand like I Yeah, so he's just he just like it's horrible. I've known Tom for a long long time This is always a thing he has to suffer through like the room is dark and I smell like peppermint oil Like that's what's happening. I'm using magical oil right now because nothing else works. Yeah The peppermint oil does work. It's a real thing. It's just not like a very powerful thing, but it does work You know like using healing crystals. I mean like there is a thing At any rate tonight, we're gonna talk about cities of Sigmar of course, but first up a very brief news section All right, what do we got Tyler? Rumor engine Looks like we got a skeleton. We've got some kind of spear Yeah, this is Vincent on what this is. Nope none The spear looks very stone-ish or something like that. It doesn't look super metallic Just based on the nature of what is there That contrast is way too high for like silver on metal unless that's a very very dark metal and a very very very bright silver So I don't know I have no clue. There's a little thingy down at the bottom looks like or something holding it under the skeleton like by a spine I Got nothing. It's a it's one of those things that like you know exactly what the rumor engine is It's a spear going through a skeleton. No exactly what it is. What is it for? No clue I'm gonna I'm going to propose Basically what I did last time, which is I think that this is new flesh eater quartz models Okay, and I think what we're looking at is I think that our next round of ghouls are gonna have one And like I think it's gonna like they're gonna lean into like the man-at-arms Bretonian like aesthetic. Okay, and I think that like like we're gonna get something a little bit more Weaponny and I think that there it's gonna be Weapons often decorated with like corpses hanging off of it instead of banners and stuff like that Yeah, like in this in this ghouls mind This is like a regal banner flying behind the the spear, but of course it's actually just a rotting carcass Correct, correct. I think I think that's the direction and that this is actually a redesign for For fec Good idea is any Alright cool. What's next? We had a reveal show last week We did well. I already gave all my opinions on everything. Obviously. I'm super stoked a doi But hey What what'd you guys think? Tom you're the guest you can go first. What did you think about the reveals man? I mean, I may be paying up a troll army in the next six months like that may be happen. Sure. I I Love it. I love this trajectory of where we're at. I like the I like everything that we saw a lot of book to I'm a big fan of Like obviously pigs have been popular. I love the new art boys Models like that. That was the one piece of that line that really needs to be renovated and we have it You know it's so funny because I remember looking at that line like orcs and goblins were my first army Or one of my first two armies, right? Yeah, I started that in high old days same time And I remember looking at our boys or black orcs at the time and going man. I love these models They're so great Right because like compared to the rest of that range at the time like they were just they were the best of the line And now like I look at them compared to the the new models and I was like Yeah, we're this is we're in a new age now We have gone beyond yes, the world is changing. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, yeah, yeah good stuff Tyler. What about you? What do you think? Yeah, obviously the art boys were the highlight of that show just some of the best models I've seen in quite a while for a OS Sided for iron jaws to finally do some painting of my own with iron jaws That'll be a new experience. I've got some videos to guide me apparently somebody put online and Yeah, man, I'm here for it. So I think iron jaws 2020 or 2024 That's the year we'll be in next year. Oh, are you painting these? I mean Are you are you are you commissioning that commissioning then spain them? Vince's time is done. It's now time for Tyler to shine. He has the video to guide him He's got the painting chops. He's he's ready to go He can do it Yeah, Tom just I mean, I mean that's what he does So where the where he talks to you and suddenly like you have like 192 different paint colors and a bunch of just a cup of brushes that are old and red That's what happens man. Just be careful. Yeah, be careful. You're your your Wednesdays disappear Yeah, or you suddenly find you have new jobs that you didn't realize you you were gonna have. Yeah Editing or development. Yeah. Yeah Speaking of which Tyler I need to talk to you after the show just real quick But no, we got a lot to go through over to the night I really like that review show that they touched on a lot of different things Underworlds and the gorgers were surprised that fulgrum was phenomenal That fulgrum model. I'm beautiful. There's gonna be some Marathi Conversions that are that are coming down the line Yep, really really good review or reveal show absolutely Okay So yeah, I mean overall very excited. I can't wait bring it bring it on as soon as obviously that book comes out We'll be doing a full review and everything like that. So let's get Supplement to me by surprise too. That was that was a surprise how it should be how it should be It's that board Absolutely, so you don't have to buy the dawn rangers to get your new army, correct Like yes, correct make incentivize people to go buy these things Yes, 100% you make those those those rules free people will buy them. That's that's absolutely right weird Hey, what's up Chuck? Hope you're doing well brother. Good to see you. And yes, he said man, Rathi's I also I believe Adam said male Rathi. I think was his joke, but you know all in the same all in the same space there All right, very good Well with that why don't we very quickly move to some pick of the week Tyler? What would you like to share with everybody? Yes, sir. So to Peter Atkinson with plastic crack. He had an excellent article a couple weeks ago Winning with Grace had to be a great opponent So we had a show recently Rob and company had a show along those lines Just really enjoyed it. So interviewing a couple of folks had a recent tournament over there I recommend that and then what else did I pick? Oh, yeah, cool guys nation So Emma along with friends including the Owen Jackson the who I who I saw this last weekend at Nova Got got my standard yearly selfie with the Owen Jackson Tweet that out. I'm going to though Was that how's the sock game? Oh great. There's always I mean, you know, it's fantastic It was good to see Owen. Apparently he's seeing someone over here in the States. So I was like We got we got some chance. We might we might draw him in capture him here in the in the States And actually I might get to play a game of actual Warhammer against the Owen Jackson at some time Which would be a lifetime achievement. Let's be honest percent So, yeah, I got a chance to listen watch a little bit of that at tons of coverage top-notch games They recommend folks check that out cool guys nation. Yeah Shout out to Emma for doing that all week. And she did a phenomenal job really enjoyed that. She's so knowledgeable about the game She's great at it. Very nice All right, Tom What do you want to share with everybody? Yeah, so I would You know like I was I was a scan of my channels, right? Yeah, and I would normally like hey, whoa normally has wonderful content, but man He's only been doing magic in Baldur's Gate 3 which Brother I'm I'm right there with you like so I feel it's very appropriate to your own journey over the past couple weeks No judgment great content, but no what I would say is that I just want to encourage folks to check out Coach recently did a fire slayers bit and I'm I'm a I'm a you know, I'm still still I still don't like my genders. Yeah, I shouldn't but that's fine I know I know and but more importantly in the And there's a coming I Said he's a sigmar Dworkin Here in a week or so and I'm excited about that as well. He's already done humans. He's already done elves so If you like what we cover in the show go go check out coaches channel Nice so for myself Richard Gray did a wonderful video on painting the alchemyte war forager a Model that if it remains at its current points value will continue to be Showing up on basically every table So you may want to know how to paint this guy and of course Richard always does an incredible job and painted a beautiful version of it And so it's just always a pleasure to watch him paint and see how he achieves what he achieves So go check that out links for all of that down in the description Why do I have a feeling we are now going to have the most disappointing hobby time in the history of the show? Let's go through this here. We go. Is everybody ready for the worst? Content ever Tyler which paint over this last week Do you I've been busy? I've been busy hubbing buddy. Just not in painting is Not quite. What's what's that? I'm sure I recognize that currently in 2023. So but I've been busy What about you man? Yeah, let's go now. Let's go to Tom. Tom. Did you paint anything in the last like three weeks? I Watched a turn of Warhammer live. Is that now? No Nope At least I'm working on a while. I swung by my local I swung by my local store and watched Clay rolling with his With his skaven Clay's our local organizer and he does a great job and I harassed him about not having painted models, so I think that's appropriate and Hey, I did a bunch of testing this week, so you shut your mouth you you did Yes, you did do work this week. That's fine. I'll accept that you were doing development work for something. So that's fine Yeah, I there is one other thing we can't talk about. I'm doing develop Yeah, I'm doing development work for a thing. We can't talk about what we will at some point in the future on the show Yes, right And now for me to bring home the disappointment Uh, I was at nova all weekend since like obviously last wednesday I taught painting classes and painted things in those classes because I taught people how to paint those things And I am working on something quite a lot. Actually, I've spent every minute that I've been home that I had free to paint Painting I can't share that thing with you right now because I'm not allowed It's a big thing that I'm painting Uh, it's it's big Definitely. There's a big thing I'm painting too, but I I just can't result for the audience at this point Sure, sure So at any rate, it thus ends the most disappointing hobby time in the history of the entire show I knew this was coming. I could see this a mile away that you two were going to paint anything And I can't talk about what I'm painting So just complete nothing of a segment wonderful absolute failure Clown show love it. Well, you've got melnik in your neighborhood. You're gonna because he's actually doing some hobby get get him to show up Be a cast You'll be covered and you can because it's gotten really bad I mean, I obviously I don't have anything to do with it But it's it's it's been pretty bad. Yeah, we've already I've already got my game lined up on saturday with melnik this week So it's we're good. We're good Pain some seraphon right now. He's getting ready for uh, maybe a highlander list at a certain tournament coming up Yeah, we're gonna have some fun. We're gonna have some fun Uh Arrested at walthaus. I want you to know you came up in conversation this weekend Because I don't remember I think it was in a panel session and somebody was talking about or something We were talking about the recognizing people, you know, somebody comes up and says hi I'm jim and you're like and then you're like, oh, we're nice to meet you jim. They're like, oh, no, we talk all the time my names, you know, uh You know red warrior 42 on you know, some social media they're gonna be like, oh, yeah, okay red warrior. Sure. Yeah, I know you Absolutely. Hey, what's going on, buddy? And so the conversation turned to best names on youtube and arrested at walthaus is like my alt like that I want you to know you live in my head rent free. That is just in my head forever. It's the best name Okay So let's get on to it. Let's get on to it. Shall we gentlemen? Shall we go to our actual primary topic today? The thing we're all excited to go to and we want to get to it fast. Anyways cities of sigmar 2023 book review. Hey as we're transitioning Why not hit that like button, right? If you're excited about new cities, if you're excited about none of apparently nobody hobbying in any way that they can share Whatever whatever caught your fancy hit that like button subscribe if you haven't already it helps other people find the show, especially Uh when it's live and going on okay, boo Summary let's do a quick do a quick high level here. We're gonna move through this at a good clip Because there is a lot Truly a redesign of the old book though. There's some thematic similarities. This is big change I think mixed arms is still very viable and maybe the optimal construction in the long term though I'm not sure that will be the case out of the gate I have a feeling the early builds will skew heavily towards shooting There is some pretty wild combos pretty wombo combo type of stuff going on that'll make shooting very very potent and some very effective shooting units Uh, I think there's a few units in here that are quite undercosted and probably need to see some points hikes Uh, most of the stuff is okay, but there's some stuff that's just like straight crazy town flow Uh If you're a if you're a fan of the humans of the cities of sigmar This is a great day for you. If you're a fans of the of the dwarven or dark elf portions of the book This is an okay day for you Like they're not bad. This isn't the vestigial sort of uh appendix that was Uh bone split as in the orc war clan's book. There is action here Uh, but but it's you know, it's clearly not getting the love And then finally my last comment is play your trap cards. Everybody should know You're just gonna get your trap card played on you now. That's what's gonna happen get your trap cards ready okay So let's do All right, go you want to unpack that regarding trap cards orders orders or trap cards Because you their secrets secrets as we'll talk about in a moment So it's like you fool you've stumbled into my trap It's sure I understand but you're like probably my trap cards And I understand that some of us have context for that not everyone though. Yeah, they'll figure it out This it'll it'll come together. It'll come together. Don't worry Okay, and then other you know, a few other things of note coalition is dead Says no more coalition though. There are sometimes bonuses for allies um I don't know that I care much. I don't think coalition will be a thing going forward into the future I think coalition will be put into the ash band of history Um, and I think that if we want to have other things brought in they'll do it through like wholesale They'll do it through like the the dawn bringers box sets that we had So it's a complete controlled thing Um, and and they know exactly what they're putting into what Uh So that's my general feeling. I don't coalition was often like yes, it was a lot of fun And yes, I'm happy with it and used it and did fun stuff But at the same time it was very confusing for new people and people who made the book very it does It does very much increase the sort of Barrier of entry on the book. So I'm I'm happy to to see it going like frankly. I don't think you need it ultimately. Um I what I'm I'm Let me say this. I'm if I had the choice between Losing coalition and or having more mixed Representation throughout the units. I'd pick that one I'd want the the elves dwarves and humans to be more integrated and mixed and stuff like that Honestly, my biggest problem with this book is we just We just segregated the heck out of everybody here. There's just no overlap No interplay between all these things. They are three separate forces that just happen to be in one book that I'll share a keyword That's my biggest problem with the book straight up I hate that there's just no overlap between them And that's what I actually would have wanted to see All right, what about you guys? What's your what's your high level takes anything? I missed Tyler you want to start us off? Yeah, sure. Okay, so I think this will be A solid book one that you can definitely do well with competitively It's possible that it will be a little over tuned as you said on the human side with some of the point prices currently Get into that I put together as a baseline at least for myself Which I'll just quickly run through I I feel like in the past with these review shows I would have liked to level set a little bit more at the beginning So just run through that for people who already know a fair amount about this book Just to kind of level set where I'm at with this battle tone from obviously from a competitive lens Okay, so I threw together a baseline variety pack combined arms, which I've gotten in the present will review it at the end Okay, cool. So I I felt pretty good. I mean, it's not as optimized Obviously that right as it could be because it is really leaning into the combined arms But of a representation of what I would feel like would hit, you know The hobby interest and cool new models and play style and could do well enough And I was pretty happy with how that list came out. Like it didn't feel insanely competitive, but but very solid Overall, yeah, I mean, I think you hit on a lot of the right things here But uh, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at at a high level. I think it's it's not going to be too scary But I haven't yet thought through Like the full tilt version of what this book would be particularly with, you know, human centered list Yeah, I will admit I'm I do have a lot of concerns over the SKU stuff. I really do But we'll see we'll see how it plays out. But let's once we get into it. We can talk it through Tom, what about you? Yeah, I mean at a high level, I think it'll be competitive Depending on Like anytime you have a mixed arms, you know, like flex list in a like strong players will make a strong list I You know, like I hate to say this But it just feels a little bit boring Okay Um, because it just all the design feels safe Okay Um, I don't know. There's some pretty big swings in here of things. I'm not happy about but I I get what you're saying It's it's especially safe. Honestly in the dwarves and elves. That's where it's more safe The humans have some bigger swings Sure But I'm even seeing on the same on like a macro level like I think about the like the moving away from coalition forces Right. Sure. Like that was that that was like a really interesting like uh That was a very interesting Like design decision Right. That was exploring Unusual design space. Sure. There's nothing like that Like if they moved back to back to like the the 2.0 design parameters like beginning of 2.0 does that make sense? That's what it felt. I do. I get you. I think that's And so, uh, yeah, I mean, yes, they did push here and there um, but I just like I like I like reading Tempest Eye and being like, oh cool So allied units like because of all the ally other ally restrictions Like allies just in general are not Most of the time going to be worth taking. I don't know. I just I was not real alive Like it's great. I think it'll I think it'll perform fine. I think there will be a strong list that will come out of it Uh, but there's nothing that really caught my fancy Yeah, I you know and somebody had said in the comments. I apologize. Whoever made that mention maybe sickness. I think might have said it but The in those cities where there's an obvious overlap between like Tempest Eye with KO or living city with sylvaneth Why didn't we just increase the ally limit in those particular cities? Like if you're playing in a battle pack that that You know limits allies like you know what it is you and you do that elsewhere in the cities Like they play with reinforcement points. We could do it the same thing here Right. You could just increase the amount of points, right? Uh, of of that were allowed by that and that would have been fine. I would have been totally okay with that My my issue with it was always like the separate mechanic of it that made it more complicated And how many can you use and like oh these guys can use these things But these guys can't use these things, right? I hate that stuff And it's like wait who can take an artifact who can do this who gets a spell who gets this stuff? You know that like that kind of stuff always gets janky So increasing the ally limit would have been fine. That's what I'm using the same existing mechanic Yeah, like we've talked about army theme to be marmite Right. Yeah, sure. I like died in wall either love it or hate it sure And this just ain't it Yeah, I mean this is a solid like seven, right? Yeah, it's just like a pitch down the middle, right? Yeah with with redesign models. Sure. Sure Um, which which like I understand like it for those armies that we want but But it's so big too on top of that. Sure I don't know like it just feels like there are some corners that we could have we could have explored that we didn't explore I got you I'm excited that an entire army that I that I built and customized is like retired as a whole It's fine. I wasn't gonna ever take it to a tournament again, but man that whole thing's on the shelf I'm really good at baking armies that end up being on the shelf. So that's fine For like all time because they get just eliminated It could just be a ko army at this point. Like it's just ko Yeah, probably it's probably just a ko army. Honestly, I think I think I don't have a city's army anymore Well, that one I have two cities army. So I think that one's not a city's army anymore I think it's now a ko army. Cool. I got another army now. All right. We're back in business boys I don't know what my little motorcycle gang is. That's the only problem Uh, somebody needs somebody For what of what what are they allies of I don't know We don't have light cab anymore. Maybe something from stormcast. I don't know sure sure Uh, clearly we need to really release more motorcycle riders in the in the uh mortal realms. All right, let's keep going Let's talk about allegiance abilities. They're long crates. Oh There you go In got them. They're long strikes only one of those guys is on that base, but okay, sure Um All right, let's talk allegiance abilities All right We're gonna talk about allegiance abilities. We have to start with orders This is a lot of text But here's how this works in The cities of sigmar book and box. Oh crap You get this little handy dandy Game made it looks like this There are nine Orders those are up here Uh, there are two for cities generically three for humans two for duoden and two for elves We'll talk about them specifically in a moment Down here you have all these little tokens and each of the little symbols Matches to the little thing up here. This has a little symbol here. It matches to that And then the other side is the little city's icon Okay These are your trap guards because they are hidden pieces of information So Basically each one of your heroes at the start of the battle round Start of the battle round not your turn All right, that's a very important thing to note. So it happens even if the other person has priority and takes takes a turn You can give one order to each friendly cities of sigmar hero All right And you place the little token next to them This side down the the hidden side down Okay Nobody can have more than one order assigned to them base. There are ways to break that we'll talk about it later And you can't assign the same order more than three times Okay And they remain secret Until they're revealed and you have to match them with the particular heroes that they go to or this use the city's ones Which are generic across the board Okay It's not a command. I mean it is a command. It's just a new command. It's a secret command ability They just wanted they they wrote a whole lot of words here that says you have second command abilities Everybody gets to do one, but they're secret. That's all these are These are just second secret command abilities Okay It just feels like This could have been done differently Uh, sure sure it could absolutely These could have just been command abilities like like I I read I read this. I'm just I want to be like Go back think about what you did. Yeah, I'm sure this is this is the micromanaging that is going is going on with the tokens and the like I'm very excited to watch city's players at the start of the round Uh go hold on And then go I start placing some tokens and then move them around and then place some tokens And then move them around and then think and then pick up one and then reshuffle I am very excited about this experience, which is undoubtedly coming The paradox of choice of this since you are setting the thing for the whole battle round at the end of the battle They say for the whole battle round by the way Both turns and then at the end of the round they Go away if you didn't use them and you set new orders Okay So anyways, that's what I wanted to do. I guess somebody Like is there an errand boy that's running around between all your heroes issuing these orders? Well, it's funny you say that because actually yes There is some guy who does this but he doesn't do this. He helps with command points I'm aware. Yes Like my point is is like If we're gonna do like unified vision and design like Okay Yeah, I I I think command abilities already covered this Like man says I personally love the order mechanic. They're a lot like command abilities. This is a more Really interesting idea. I mean they they are very much exactly command abilities except they are locked to the number of heroes you have Not a managed resource And they're secret. That's it Okay So there we go. Um, but yes these can Stack onto the same unit. I like he says if they're plus if they're command abilities, you wouldn't be able to stack them on the same unit Yes, correct, which I am not sure is a bad thing But Okay It is what it is We wrote all these it's fine from a design perspective I don't love all this extra weight from an actual engineer like what they actually are. I don't mind them. They're fine if You have players who master the army everything will be fine if you have players who are low information players Uh, this is going to be a nightmare to play against. So there you go. Yeah, that's the key is to play against it, right? Like All the explaining that's gonna have to do Sure be done on flip And I I can't wait for people to be like wait, hold on Which one did I put here? Right, right, that'll be fun too. That'll be fun. People will forget which little tokens they placed constantly so okay Uh TP grant says I see what you and tom are saying vince, but I feel like this is a bit of dream casting design or talk of like But what if they did something different? I mean, yeah, sure it is. They wrote this. They didn't have to write this They could have wrote like 10 other things Right, and I like secret hidden information. I do think secret information is actually a fun thing right Um, but again, they could have gone They could have just made these command abilities. They could have put them on the same resource given a more command points They could have made it so you can multi-issue them just like in Uh obr they could have made it so you can multi-receive them Okay, like there those are all just rules You can you can you can break them. This is exception-based design. It's not like they would have had to do anything They could have just used the existing mechanic that's fine because Guess what? Deciding the issue of command ability is also secret because you decide to do it at the moment you do it Then people don't have psychic access to your brain This just requires you to like make a decision far in advance As to what you think you're going to need right Which is fun in like little little airplane History games where you got to like make decisions about where your plane's gonna fly and turn and shoot And you kind of hope there's another plane there at the time that they pick the right things I'm not sure I like it here But like all of this could there is nothing required about this. I want everybody to understand this from a design perspective This is completely extraneous and unnecessary. It can be good or bad But it's extraneous I just want to know what they were trying to capture conceptually Like is it issues being ordered and sent out and the fact that like This is your order for the turn and in the fog of war. You can't change them. They've already been ordered But why do we not do that with other command ability then? I don't have an answer for that. Why is it why is it only human? Why is it only humans that have this issue? right like I don't know. Oh, sorry only humans in this army There are other humans in the game that they do not suffer from that And and dwarves and elves for that matter, you know, I I have no answer Go ahead. I'll just say one point on this. We can move on. Uh for me What I was getting out of this again without I haven't given it a lick of thought about what would have been better ways to do this I accept your guy's point that there could have been better ways to do this I haven't thought a lick about it. So I can't comment on that I My interpretation was that they were emphasizing this concept of the Hole being greater than the sum of the parts with this army Which is something that they've been hitting over and over and over and over and over again These little humans who are trying to go up against giants And demons and this is their means of one of their core means of expressing that With uh in the secret tech I can understand as an interesting way to do that You're right. It's going to require people really getting a handle on it to make sure it doesn't lead to Yeah, slow gameplay or whatnot, but yeah, it works for me personally. But like I said, I haven't I I can see the critiques Yeah, yeah And again, it doesn't it doesn't mean it's bad. I'm just explaining it is it is largely extra Um dev encorpments as I love the orders. It's such a great skill test for the players I agree with that And when you put in a pretty high skill test as a basic allegiance ability You raise the barrier of entry for the army because the skill floor just came up to play this army with any level of competency So like if somebody ever said to me a stasis sigmar a new player army The existence of orders alone would almost make me answer no Good or bad. No, that's exactly right. We've covered nothing else and the answers already know Yeah Yeah, like it's you know, it's in that sense like what it felt like when I encountered it for the first time I was like, oh, so like they are basically doing another version of obr's points yeah But so like Like I mean, it's we want to have the more board. Yeah, like I get thematically what's going on For the same reason obr have all their command ability stuff and things like that, right? They want to give the the extra layer to the highly militarized Combined arms rigid sort of forces makes sense. Like it's okay. I get what's going on here This isn't like going over my head of like I can't understand why you did this. I get it Okay, it's fine All right, so at any rate, that's how these things work. Let's talk about what they are All right, so And what we think of them So we got two cities of sigmar orders advance information So if you get this order is revealed at the start of your movement phase Till the end of that phase you had three inches to move characteristic of friendly cities of sigmar units that start a normal move Within three inches of the hero at this order in addition at the end of that phrase friendly castlet units with a fortified position ability Can establish a fortified position even if they made a normal move Which we'll talk about what fortified position and cast a light means later But in short form it is your shooty shooty units And fortified position lets them ignore negative modifiers to save amongst occasionally some other things happening Um, so it but they normally can't access that when they move. So this lets them move and still do that Specifically against mr. Weapons just yeah, sorry against mr. Weapons. Yes, absolutely Um, yeah, good. Okay. Cool. That was good for obr To let them move three inches seems reasonable here Yep, it's quite good So, I mean, yeah seems good. I'm sure this one will be used quite a lot, right? I mean, it's obviously useful It's a movement based game Movement is good Fortified position is okay. I wouldn't like take my whole claim on it for most of the units, but it's it's good Countercharge You can reveal this order at the end of the enemy charge phase if you do so pick one friendly city of sigmar unit More than three inches away from all enemy units within three inches of the hero with this order You can attempt a charge with that unit in addition If that unit makes a charge move improve the rend characteristic of that unit's melee weapons by one Until the end of the turn Very strong one there. Obviously we saw at Nash con with The blight creak or whatever, uh, that being a very potent effect That's a little more potent than this obviously, but still on the same type of level Countercharging out of turn is obviously a Very potent ability And so, you know getting that and bonus rend. Hey Pretty cool Now which can stack with certain more scrolls certain situations Cavaliers, I do love that they specify this at the end of the new charge phase or my money that is one of the Challenges problematic points with for example legion of night the timing of legion of night. Yeah, you have mortis praetorians I believe as well where those trigger. I know legion of night. This is a case mortis. Maybe as well those can trigger After your opponent does their first charge You can then interrupt before they do a second charge Which can then allow you to interrupt say battle tactics like let into the melstrom or something like that Yep, yeah, it it makes stuff like this a little more palatable. I would say for for gameplay No timing wise that is the correct time End of the charge phase is also a good time because it's like that's when a lot of other things are happening Like there's a like monstrous reactions and stuff like that. So that's that's all fine But by this what that means is that monstrous actions would happen before the counter charge takes place Uh, if depending on whose turn it is Uh, like no, but no you have to counter charge during the enemy turn enemy charge phase. Yeah, exactly So if it's no if it's there so their monster actions will always take place before you counter charge through the monster Yes, because they have the priority at that moment So they have to resolve all their end of charge phase things and then you result yours. Yes Which is cool because it means and and yes the obvious unit for this It will be the knights because it'll push them up to like rend three Um, so quite strong Okay, cool. Uh, now we got three human orders Uh return fire Uh, I I'll just sum this up by saying if you get shot you shot in the enemy shooting phase you shoot back Yeah, I guess it doesn't have to be the enemy shooting phase It's technically when a friendly unit within three inches of the hero with this order is targeted by a shooting attack So like I'm sure there is some way to Uh organize this so you're you're Doing it I have to think about how that would work Uh, like you set up the enemy You set up your hero Then you charge in They unleash hell on your unit that charged, but then you would shoot back at the after that Yeah, uh, wait, does that work? No, because they have to be still three inches from all enemy units. You can't do it in response to that You can it's only when the It's only when the shooting unit is itself shot So it would have to be Um, so you'd have to charge in with the shooting unit But you can't because they also have to be three inches from the enemy units. So it can't yeah So you can't do it in response to an unleash You could do it though if you got shot out of phase like, uh, so I'm thinking here like It's not phase locked. So like marathi's You're making the Bo snakes fight shooting the hero phase. You could shoot back at them. Right. That would work. There we go. Again, assuming you're satisfying the other conditions Yeah, very strong. So we're gonna see so uh, so funny story um The did you guys catch what this does? Like what what the where the hiccup is here? When you return fire You don't have to shoot back at the unit that shot you Oh, sure. Yeah, that unit can just immediately shoot. Yeah at the moment. Yes. That's a good point Um, you just pick one that got shot Right. Yeah. No, no No, no, no It says like this is triggered when the enemy unit shoots your shooting unit. Correct Your response then is um Pick a unit that is more than friends from all you know, any, you know bubble up that you can immediately shoot It doesn't designate what you shoot I understand the unit shoots you now you shoot marathi Yeah, it's a good point. Well, actually, there's two that you're you're right I mean, I I didn't I hadn't clicked into both of these It's two different things here one the unit that shoots Doesn't have to be the unit that got shot They just both both units would have to be within three inches of the hero that's triggering this So like you could unit a is standing in front of the hero unit b is standing behind the hero. Okay, unit a gets shot Yeah, unit b can now shoot unit b can now shoot. So you could do the situation I talked about with the unleash You charge in Okay with a unit You like your here's your hero you charge in with the unit the shooting unit standing behind the hero This is gonna get shot by unleash hell the unit behind then returns fire Yeah, yeah, right So so that's point number one right a different unit can fire. Yes, which is I think what travis Uh is pointing out. Yes, exactly. That's where that's travis. You're pointing out what I'm pointing out, right? So so yes, you could use this in the unleash hell situation You'd have to arrange your units very cleverly, but it's not that hard to do And You are correct that you do not have to fire at the thing that actually did the shooting You just get an extra shootings, right? They like their marauders with spears their marauder horsemen throw spears at your gunners and you respond by shooting arpeion Right like that's basically what we're talking about right where they are just gonna swing their guns over and in Inlay into something that has nothing to do with whatever's being shot at right, right? correct Okay, so That may not be according to intent. That's all I'm saying sure could be I don't know but that is that is how it works You are correct. It is neither the unit that gets shot That or nor are they shooting at the people that that shot them in this return fire situation Right. Yeah, you are but returning fire and by returning fire. You're pulling the trigger at something at something. Yes Okay So suppressing fire this one is the start of your shooting phase And you get to pick a friendly city sigma human unit within three inches of the hero with this order After that unit shoots your old 2d6 you add the number of models slain to the results So this could be very high number depending on what you're shooting at If you beat the bravery characteristic of that unit it is suppressed and the strike last effect applies to it Okay I think this one's cool I like the synergistic nature of this one you shoot a unit with some fusiliers or whatever and then you charge in with free Marshall on griffin and some free cool cavalry or whatever and you know to set up your Hitting them before they get an opportunity to hit you Maybe you're hitting them with multiple units to to bring them down to finish them off So just sets up cool combo damage plays sure and also ties into battle tactic So yeah, yeah, yeah The somebody asked a question which kodi says you can give the same order to three different units Does that mean you can shoot back with all three friendly units after the enemy shoots with one unit? Yes, all of them figured if if no You would have to have three different heroes, correct If you now you now you're really stacking a sort of situation, but yes Yes, oh actually I take that back Funny story You need to have one unit to return fire and three heroes nearby. You don't need three units, right? No, you need a targeted unit Three well, yeah, you need a targeted unit and three heroes Which may or may not be and then if you don't want to shoot with the people who got shot at a second unit And that unit could fire all three times Correct. So that unit could then return fire three times. Yeah, so like if you see If you see somebody that has a unit right And then there are three heroes just hanging out behind them and then behind that are 30 cast of light views to leaders You probably don't shoot now. You just don't shoot anymore You do not shoot anything in that that porcupine area That is a Failed complete fail Right, because you were just going to get returned fire on blasted Right, you can't issue the same order to the same unit more than once per phase. Is that true? No, you're issuing the orders to The heroes Not to the receiving unit No, but a friendly unit cannot be affected by the same order more than once in the same phase. There you go. Okay. That's correct So, yes, sorry. I forgot. I missed that clause. So, yes, you will need three shooting units You could return fire three times as long as you have three different shooting units And return back to our prior statement about barrier of entry Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I understand It's it's a lot to trace back and forth, especially with something like return fire I hate counter shooting mechanics because they just cause all these sorts of issues Okay, anyways, let's keep going engage the foe You can reveal this order at the start of your charge phase Pick one friendly city sigma human unit. There's more than three inches from all of the units that has not yet fought in this battle very important copyant And is within three inches of the hero of this order if that unit makes a charge move add one to the attack characteristic of that unit's melee weapons until the end of the following combat phase So Cool Defined thought That's not yet fought fight is a thing in the core rules That is a that is a thing in the core rules Fight means to pile in an attack So it does not it has nothing to do with shooting No correct correct What if you are it happens in the combat phase? Not necessarily only but yeah, yeah, sure In the core rules Fighting is a thing that happens at the combat phase I like man. No, I don't I think it I think it causes rules nightmares. That's my simple answer Like it really is like on the surface. It's you read it and you're like neat. I can shoot back Like here's the thing a lot of people are just gonna read this and just be like, yeah, okay You shoot me I shoot back Got it That's not right. That's not even close to what this rule does Like they're not even in the general ballpark of what this rule does actually And like how they can stack it and work with it and like I I hate stuff like that Where where where where I've got to go back and trace all these different lines Stuff like engage the foe is fine. Like I'm good with something like this. Yeah, sure plus one attack Good a thing cool neat. Let's do this get in there All right fun Okay uh Can the counter shirt shooting turn into ping pong just back and forth So like you mean if we have a cities on cities match Then yes, like again with the limitation that we remember we all that I forgot about I read earlier and then forgot about of the once per phase thing, but it could be like That situation until we're all out of shooting units okay, so Durden orders Uh, I know we're spending a lot of time here, but it matters. This is like this is their core allegiance ability So this is like pretty important stuff. Yeah, this is what they do. Yeah, this is the thing um Okay, so two durden orders form a shield wall Uh, basically this is for your your dwarfies and you issue this at the start of the enemy combat phase And if you do so your model strikes last but they get a ward of five up. Okay pretty cool Good with that. It's fine. It's fine No problem. Um, I can there's a couple dwarven units. I think this is pretty decent on so yeah pretty good stuff And then grim last stand Uh, this is at the start of your combat phase Uh, each time a model from a unit you pick the unit that you get issued this order It's one unit You get to pick an enemy when they die when one of the dwarves from the unit you pick a slain You roll a die on a five up the enemy unit suffers one mortal wound the new You know fight on death mechanic right So, yeah cool either a defensive one and a damage one or or zombies Yeah, sure. Yeah Yeah Well, they either get a five up ward. So they're like zombies or they do a five up Moral wound on death. So they're like zombies Weird that the zombies get to do both of those things while the dwarves only get to do one Maybe we should kill the dwarves. They'll improve Okay, um, but yeah, good stuff um And then we'll we'll talk more about how this all happens later because there's some there's some fun additional things there Yes, you are absolutely right man's fine LV orders Strike them down Do it You can reveal this order the start of the charge phase You get to pick a friendly unit within three inches of your hero elf units If that unit makes a charge move the strike first effect applies This just feels like the most baseline design for these guys dwarves are slow, but tough elves are fast in And and hit harder. I guess something. I don't know they're fast That's a thing, right? They're fast and strike first. Yes. They'll get the other order. They're fast Yeah, yeah, and then uh, Swift disengage You do this at the end of the combat phase see this one I actually really like of all of the sort of dwarf and elf ones. This was my favorite I really like this one a lot Um, if you do so pick one friendly city to sigma elf unit That's within three inches of the hero at this order and this within three inches of any enemy units That unit can immediately retreat And that's just end of the combat phase. So your turn or enemy turn I like that one a lot. I think that one's great Yeah, um, that's got some super good counter play on it Like retreat at the end of combat or you know in the combat phase is often as a scaven player. This is very familiar to me um, this is that's like some great tech opens up some great lines for moving around and Uh, controlling the board like that's that's just a really cool cool cool order. So yeah, I'm all about that Gives you a reason to consider units. You might not otherwise consider like dark riders or whatever they're called Not saying you would take dark riders But just like this might actually be an interesting use of dark riders moving whatever their 12 14 inches Charging ping ponging retreating 14. Now suddenly you might have stolen the objective Yeah, yeah cool little place It's cool stuff I was actually thinking about chariots with it It was actually the thing that like the the little units of three chariots that you can take That actually was the thing that immediately came to my mind just because they're they got Really really good move on that retreat obviously um Okay, cool All right, so let's move on to command traits Because that's your allegiance abilities. There you go. That's your thing them orders Uh Yeah, yeah chariots are cool. They like man. I'm I'm all about them. I actually like the chariots I kind of like all the little chariot type things in this army Uh, I'm here for those those all those guys Um from gyro copters all the way up to steam tanks. I'm here for it. Okay so, um Divine champion General becomes a priest if they're not already a priest they know the hammer of sigmar prayer It has an answer by four and a range of 12 to the start of your next year phase You can add one to wound rolls for a tax made with melee weapons by friendly city's sigmar human units While they're wholly within range of the chamber A perfectly fine average prayer It sucks because you got to stay within range of the bubble, but it's fine Okay, cool We all right with that one Yeah, there's not many ways that I saw it to bonus your prayer I think you could do a knight or lord relic tour as your general As an ally. I think that's a thing and with plus one on the lord relic tour specifically and then high priest to re-roll it So now you're at a three up re-roll Do you really want to lean into getting this off? It's throwing some good money after bad, but uh, you know, like It's fine becoming a priest is cool. I like command traits that turn you into priests. I like them across most the armies Um, I think that's really good. So I'm here for it grizzled veteran wound rolls made for a tax to target this general only Wound on an unmodified four plus. So this is the 40k rule that we've been talking about wondering for like two years Why this wasn't here? Um, I'm and here it is. I wasn't expecting it to be Um showing up on a random human Uh, I would have expected this rule to show up on like, you know, something alien or or whatever Or undead or or a big giant or or whatever, but that's fine Yeah, it's probably fine Like obviously you would put this on your your general on griffin or something like that to make it more tough And it's it is a pretty decent Modifier to toughness. Like I don't want to understate this like people who wound on threes and twos Moving it to a four does like make a big difference in how survivable that that free kill general on on griffin is Um, so yeah Um, but then the one everybody's gonna actually take Um At least initially So here we go Master of ballistics if this general issues the all-out attack command Core rules are tuned up for to a friendly castillite unit in the shooting phase add one to wound rolls For attacks made with missile weapons by that unit in that phase This effect is in addition to the normal all-out attack. This is going to get worse later on Very fast, but when you all out attack Uh, in the shooting phase you get plus one to hit and wound This is what this is this is going to show up like initial lists This will show what like that go to tournaments. This will show up on i'm going to guess I'm going to be conservative tyler 70% of the lists will have this command trait That is the exact percentage that I was guessing right Yep, uh Like man 24 made a good point the high priestess command trait. I forgot so yeah Yeah, that whole idea of re-rolling your prayer that you're not even doing that So best you're just getting a three plus on that hammer of sigmar if you're going to find champion as you're Look man, just find some mystical terrain and stand next to it. You're good. That's all you need Okay, and then then the unit has to hump you around that. Yeah, then you just got to stand then They just got to stay near you seems fine and then fiery temper You get to re-roll charge rolls and then if you charge a big giant bubble of re-roll charge goes off Which is cool like that is a giant bubble the thing that makes me not hate that one Is that it's like an 18 inch bubble that comes off this general of re-roll charges when you charge That is a significant bubble of re-roll charging. So okay, cool So that's fine Um, yeah, cool. Okay Uh, right on okay And this is yeah, so master of ballistics will be the thing that's taken quite a lot. So there you go Yep. All right, Jordan of mighty lineage um Uh, so real quick Devin, you're pointing out something. I will come back to this. Yes. I understand. Don't worry. We'll get there That's not actually the thing I was going to mention. We'll come back to it. No, I actually had a different thought in mind Okay of mighty lineage Basically, um You can as you issue a challenge if you do so you pick one enemy hero within three inches this general Until the end of that phase the strike first effect applies to this general But all the attacks they make in that phase must target that enemy hero Okay, sure It's cool. It's fine. Your your little dwarf can also strike first Is it that it's fine The little general can pull other units in with him. So I'm having It's pretty cool Just remember that. Yeah, that's what that that's what makes this interesting. Yeah Now, I mean like again, you've got to have a hero to use against He can't just strike first all the time or something like that But it is cool But like any time you have heroes that are that are doing the whole I pull a unit into combat with me thing If you have the ability to give them strike first It's actually quite a game changer on your overall activation paradigm Because it means you're generally getting like three units to fight before they fight at all if it's your turn You have priority. So it's a big deal um Insurmountable resilience, uh heal like a lunatic Like you know, this is good healing. This is some wild healing right here Uh, you roll a dice for each wound currently allocated to this general on a three plus that wound is healed Okay, you remind me of go track That's a strong healing Yeah, it's that's gonna go on a six wounds morning king. Yeah, sure not a lot of wounds, but yeah It's cool. I mean the key is is like you got to remove that little bastard Because if you don't like you have to go all in is if you don't Like he's gonna stand back up. He's he's a little punchy. So yeah Yeah, this guy's like a turns him into like a little mini bastion carthalos not quite as good But but also doesn't have to kill anything to trigger it. So that's cool And then master of ancient lore they become a priest if they are already a priest They know an additional prayer in this case you already have your own prayer lore, which we'll cover in a minute For the elfies we have unparalleled duelist Uh For each hit roll for an attack made with a melee weapon that targets this general that does not score a hit The attacking unit suffers one mortal wound after all of its attacks have been resolved That's actually a wild ability Because it's not like normally these get put on like a natural roll of one right But like the the black dragon the the dreadlord on black dragon like going into a unit that hits on a four up or something It's just like okay kill yourselves now That guy becomes the ultimate like chaff horde killer Like He goes into zombies. They are going to hold off on piling in at all They will attack you with the minimum number of zombies I mean you'll die to mortal wounds when you swing into them and kill a bunch of them But it'll be funny So that's cool Um, I mean the zombies will still just murder you when they all die and just five up mortal wound you to death But it's cool. It's it's so much damage. It's so much damage Sure Like what the zombie player would naturally do is like, okay, I don't pile in I attack you with like these five people Who have to fight I take four mortal wounds Okay, now you go you swing at me you kill 25 zombies I do 10 mortal wounds to you It's like what a great trade They grade into some rats with their three inch reach a big old unit of rats I guess like would have to roll the dice at you with their three inch reach Yeah, yeah poor that's that's the real tech you want to take out clan rats unparalleled dualist We'll lift you some clan rats that units. That's a bad day for them You know, I mean the the storm vermin hit only a two up So you're not really getting that you're still just getting the unmodified ones, but yeah I do love this. Yeah, come in trade. It's it's pretty clever Yep, it's probably not amazing, but yeah, I mean situationally it could be a lot of fun But yeah, there's too many ways around it probably for the most part, so Okay, secretive warlock secrets Uh dev encorpments that optimistic that a dreadlord would kill 25 zombies. No, you're right. You're right That was like super optimistic. All right. Let me make that more realistic. You kill eight zombies There you go Yeah, you only take like three mortal wounds back and you get to do a combat protracted combat that lasts for the rest of the game Nobody attacking each other Secretive warlock wizard only had one to cast again and binding rolls. Cool. Fine. Great It's a little bit of good eats classic and draconic blood packed hero mountain on black dragon Start a combat phase You can draw power from their draconic blood pack if you so this general suffers one mortal wound Can't be negated however until the end of that phase add one to the attacks characteristic of the weapons This general's mount is armed with Pretty cool Pretty cool. It's fine I think I'd rather take the unparalleled duelist. Uh, all right, so Let's talk artifacts Uh, okay brazier of holy flame Uh Let's you you you lose half stuff from battle shock near you That's it. It's the way to explain it past Uh, maestro vivetti's magnificent macro scope. Does this keep getting a different name? Every time we've had these forever, but it did not have this name previously, right? I need to go find the old book and and and look at this name. I swear to god, this had a different name before Um Anyways, this is this is going to be like an insanely popular choice Add three inches to the range characteristic of missile weapons used by friendly cities of sigmar human units while they're holding within 12 of the bearer Yep, sure absolutely That will be taken a lot a lot A lot a lot Yep Yep If without the you'll take that command trait that I just talked about and then you'll take this This just builds itself Okay Uh The shemtex grimoire is actually really easy interesting in the existing season Uh, once for battle you get to do this you roll a d3 and until the end of that phase All enemy wizards get minus that d3 to cast Actually a really cool artifact I I dig that in this current season. I mean minus d3 across the board is actually super interesting as sort of anti zinch anti Uh, tech of people who are trying to do that. So It's pretty cool Yeah, I I still don't I well obviously we've got one that is to go to and that the next one comes pretty interesting as well On your mobile hammer. This is like your second third pick. Maybe Depending on your list construction Yeah Yeah, it's third. Yeah Yeah, sigmar and warhammer. That's pretty nice pick one of the bearer's melee weapons For the ring characteristic weapon by one and add one damage characteristic of that weapon So hello free guild marshal on griffin He's got some tasty options to get up there Yeah, rent wise and damage wise give you a mobile hammer. There's not a lot of mobile hammers going on City of the sigmar so I I could see that one being very popular Yeah, a lot of people like this type of build I've got a buddy who plays cities a lot who who always liked this sort of a thing He likes having a free guild general on griffin. That's like, you know Good at like kicking butt and and just being that mobile hammer that can be very threatening and scary and mobile and yeah I think it's it's cool So it's cool. Yeah good It's a it's a classic just boost the numbers artifact, right Stacks with counter charge And yeah, and uh, and with the worst role as well One of the melee options at least one of the melee options delights So yeah, I can get some crazy rents in certain situations Which is what you need to actually kill things in the game, right? Like you go up to rent three four That's uh, pretty good Pretty good. It turns out So there you go Um The flask of let's see. See it's heal d6 wounds once per battle I I cannot pronounce whatever the city's name is Let's see in I don't know and then glimmering once per phase you can reroll one hit roll one wound roll for an attack made by the Bearer or one save roll for an attack that targets the bearer always actually a very powerful ability um I think people undersell this this thing So this kind of effect has been around and actually a couple different armies have something like this I think it's actually a very potent effect. Um, yeah, all these like most of these are actually interesting Um, I understand what everybody's saying What we'll talk about when you talk about the command core and how the brazier works I still just don't care none of the armies. I'm interested in running. I'm worried about battle shock I still not sure I believe battle shocks the thing so That's my my ultimate feeling on that uh Okay, like I've got so many ways to rally on a four up in here. I just that's fine Or advance rally in certain ways. Okay Jordan they got three first The book of grudges. That's a grudgeon right there. Okay So you get to pick an enemy unit that's visible to the bearer. See if you could find a grudge. You look through your book quickly okay and Yeah, exactly Devin. I was that the glimmerlings 100% my steam tank commander item pick. Yes, it's great I was going to talk about it when we get there Um, but yes, I agree completely because like I am absolutely looking at the steam tank commander army I'm just going to talk about just like so, you know Because that is the lens I am looking through here for for my own personal bias and glimmering is great on him because Duh, you're firing your main cannon. So rerolling the hitter wound is actually really important and you have a good armor save So, you know There you go Anyways, if you find a grudge you get plus one to hit rolls for attacks made by uh, season sigma or durian units that target that enemy unit until you find another grudge You need to do that every hero phase because that's fun. Plus one to hit for all your dwarf units against some enemy Flavor wise so much. Yeah Like I just love it. It'll be a three plus not four seems like I mean four is unfortunate, but I still like Again flavor wise. I love it. Like yeah, it is It'd be nice to be a little bit more reliable, but It is great though Yep, uh I like floating bonuses to hit Sure. Yeah. Yeah, especially when it's just like Everybody gets it the army like if you've got an old if you're looking for the hard-doored an army This can be pretty big bonuses against that enemy unit. You know, you want to fight You're like that guy Right there And I will say there's no reason you can't keep trying to pick the same enemy unit So if you fail the four up in round one, you can go after him again at round two you can keep reading Yeah, there's a lot of grudges in there Like once you lock it in on a target if you never want to move it, you don't yeah, you just don't yeah You don't have to yeah Yep Uh because it's an optional thing pile driver gauntlets is um, basically Instead of this model fighting they hit the ground and then every unit within three inches of the bear on a four up They strike last Okay, decent enough That's pretty interesting And then heavy metal ingot I really don't like at all But it's ignored negative modifiers to save rolls for attacks to target the bear If the bear has not made a move in the same turn Even though you're a dwarf and you don't move very far movement is generally pretty important in this game And so having your little guy have to stick his feet to the ground to ignore it To get this is quite a quite a huge penalty um, so The elf side, uh, you got your shadow shroud ring Uh, this is at the start of your hero phase You can say the bear will use the ring if you do so until the start of your next hero phase The bear is not visible to enemy units that are more than 12 inches away This is obviously super lookout sir because it's just not visible so you can't get spelled or anything like that Though oftentimes it doesn't matter. You're usually dying to Uh to aoe bombs that don't care whether or not they can see you so Uh the venom fang blade If your wound rolls a six, it's d3 mortal wounds If it was hit roll of a six, I'd be more interested but at wound roll of a six. I'm not And then the anklet of epiphany. All right question Mm-hmm. I have to make sure this copied correctly because I when I pull text out of here It's not out like I retype stuff quickly So I'm I'm looking at this real quick. Hold on. I gotta go back to this. Is this for real I saw this as I was writing it. Yep. I came across correctly. Is this the first magical anklet we've gotten? Our song comes to my mind just like the sorceress Does the sorceress model? I don't have it off the top of my head. I can't picture it off the top of my head That is the same Does the sorceress model Have a is she wearing a little anklet? Let me find her here She might not be but I know there are some fire slayers with anklets Sure. Well, they ain't elves or wizards. So twice. They can't take this I gotta flip to like the art section of this book And see if they have a sorceress in here Because that is some that is like a wildly specific thing The anklet of epiphany I love it. It's amazing Apparently they didn't include the thorn and the elves in the art section. Nope. It's all just pictures Of the human stuff and they're like, yeah, you can figure it out It's fine. She's got you don't need them She has boots Nope, not on the model. Okay. I don't know. What a what a hilariously specific thing All I know is in the next dnd game that idm someone is finding an anklet of epiphany. That's happening What's this is a magical bracer? Nope Only works with only ankle That takes up your feet slot. Okay I don't think the boy would that be So, yeah, you put it under your boots Yeah Anklet of epiphany wizard only adds six inches to the range of spells cast by the bear while the bear is wholly on its Rain feature and or is contesting an objective Uh Pretty good pretty good item. Let me just say that Yeah There's one crazy spell in particular that I saw that elves have yeah, we'll get there. Yeah Well, I mean, it's the you know, it's spells cast by the bearer. So it's not just your your elder spellboard. So it's Like say your endless spells or Anything like that or just mystical shield at a longer range. I mean, whatever You know Turns out having a better like adding six inches to most spells makes them good Cygnus says next we'll see the toe ring of triumph. Yeah, exactly Yes This is my Pinky ring of bostom right here. So Obey, you know what I'm saying? Let's just like get that going Kiss the ring. Okay so Speaking of spell lures Let's get into it Here we go All right the human spells Boy, there's a lot of these Let me see if we can summarize because I ain't reading all of these verbatim Fireball you don't take it next mystifying miasma really good like really good cast on a five Super long range of 24 inches shuts off a unit's ability to run completely and gives them neg 2 to charge wildly good That is a great spell right there Pole of doom also wonderful and amazing Casting values higher on a seven, which can be tough sometimes. Okay. There is some bonuses to cash that are splattered around But it's it's a high number 18 inches don't let's go to 24 okay and Pick a unit can't issue or receive commands incredible Okay, yeah Foss protection human only That's an important note here. All right Uh, you ignore returns the unit ethereal easy Hello steam tank Hello steam tank Uh, rain of jade No, it's your skip. It can heal people sort of kind of poorly Transmutation of lead Variably good If you have it happens to go into people who are like large numbers of models with one or two wounds on a four up or three up save Um Then it's quite good. Oh, let's say is there a rollo number dicey blue number one those each. Yeah, yeah 10 chosen Yeah, units like that. Yeah with three up save to up save. Yeah Yeah, it's it's decent against them The problem with something like that is they there there's enough wounds there. They don't really suffer from it You're sort of ideal situation honestly is like somebody like the steel helms in this army I don't know Like that's kind of your perfect situation or like storm burman or something like that Right, that's right. Those are like your perfect thing because then it's 50 of the unit eats it because it's equal to our seeds right So it's cool uh twin tailed comet skip Nope, nope, and then wild form No longer sadly will this particular wizard be the ally to sylvaneth everywhere Because this is only human units now But it is a really strong ability as we've got our good old-fashioned 3d6 18 inch declare charge Yeah Big fan. Yeah, great for your cavalry, right like wild form obviously very strong On your cab or just anybody else you need to move across the board and get into into position into fighting So the winners for me are really miasma paul of doom and wild form. Those are I think the three just stand out winners Uh miasma and paul are great debuffs wild form incredible buff Yeah I think that's right. Okay Yeah Tom any thoughts on all that all makes sense to you? No, okay. Yeah Right on that. Yeah, a lot of steam saying What's that? Lots of decision points lots of decision points. Yes uh else else endured in prayers uh so sap strength minus one to wound Okay, it's fine. It's perfectly fine spell pretty it's you know repeated like A thousand different ways. Yes, Travis. You are correct. I should have said that. Yeah Wild form does work for counter charge. Yeah Sure. Yeah, yep I mean, you always got to keep counter charge in mind as we talk about like everything in this book because there's so much where it matters Um Just I need to hold up. I need to hold a little sign up that just says remember counter charge. It's like super important, right? Um Umbro hex is funny and skip and tenebro blades, uh, basically you pick a friendly city of sigmar elf unit And now their melee weapons make the target save characteristic non-existent Uh, so we've we sort of changed around how that spell Works obviously right because it used to be you had to pick the enemy unit and it was super short range Now it's still a super short range um But It makes it so when that unit goes into people their save is nothing and yes, this would go to 15 inches with the aforementioned anklet You could have an epiphany that uh removing people's save characteristic is pretty good It's pretty good turns out Okay All fine. Obviously a lot of good stuff Cool good all feel good about that Yep. Yep tenebro blades. I mean, we'll get into it. But yeah, there's some one juicy Whore scroll in particular in the dark elf side. What are they called? Kevin's side? So yeah, lots of lots of attacks on a certain whore scroll. We'll talk about yeah yeah Uh, yeah, tenebro blades feels like the reason you actually have some dark elves in your in your thing Yeah, yeah Cool very good tom. I understand. I think everybody else will see your little message too by the way. It's just funny It's okay Uh rune of unfultering aim You get to pick a friendly dured in unit and they get plus one to hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons So another plus one to hit option In addition to the grudgen Row rune of oath and steel Uh, you get to pick a dured in range a subtract one for wound rolls for attacks that target that unit So minus one to be wounded Which is cool And then the rune of wrath and ruin this one's actually kind of fun Answer value three and 18 inches you pick an enemy unit you roll six dice Six dice for each roll of five plus that enemy unit suffers one mortal wound In addition if a unit suffers three or more mortal wounds, so you got to break statistics just a little right You got to get a little lucky And they have to not have a board save against mortals and so on and so forth, right? Uh, that unit is ruined ruined Until the start of your next hero phase while the unit is ruined you ignore positive modifiers to save rolls for attacks that target that unit Pretty cool. I mean like obviously you're you're hoping on some good luck there You have to like chant the prayer on a three Which is a six and a half Spell cast by the way if you're just talking about the difficulty of that like mathematically the odds are rolling a six and a half If that makes sense, it's halfway between rolling a six and a seven Then you have to get the mortal wounds through they have to not word save it But if it does it's a pretty good decent payoff Um, so it's fine like the word play Okay The the rune of wrath and ruin ruined It's a rune that ruins ruin Yes Okay Cool. Let's talk sub factions. By the way. Oh, go ahead. What are you saying? Yeah. Yeah, I like prayers. Yeah. Yeah, I dig the prayers Yeah, I think the prayers are all really interesting They're the two the first two are like really basic. They're fine Like plus one to hit minus one to be wounded all fine Really interesting in combination with some of the other stuff we saw earlier Like some of the dwarven commands and stuff, you know, you get a unit with uh That goes into five up ward mode and has the neg one to be wounded on it. That's actually a pretty hard unit shift And so like that's just, you know, pretty baseline combo stuff. That's pretty nice Um, especially when we see iron breakers later and we see And we see their little ability We're gonna see that that's actually a pretty tough unit to shift around So iron breakers are finally living up to their old tactics and name Um, yeah, this is one of the art pieces in the book. I love this art piece. It's super cool Um Yeah, so I want I want to know where the storm shadow ninjas You know where that unit went Well, I think that's meant to be the person out of the command core Um, they don't look exactly like that in the way that the person painted them So my guess is like the art was done and then the person painted the model But it's it's meant to be that person the stalker or whatever from the command core I'm aware. Yeah But you know Yeah, this art's sweet. It's like really cool Uh, and this little dog lizard thing that's that's in the army now is like awesome. I love dog wizard or dog lizard guy Okay sub factions. Here we go. There are so many of these Dear god All right, let's get into it There are too many cities And somehow we still didn't get the free The or the the daughters of cane city I mean look dude That's where we are. All right hammer hall oxha Okay When heroes when orders are being given to friendly hammer hall oxha heroes One of those units can be given two orders instead of one, but they must be given different orders Okay, cool so Neat you can give one of your heroes two orders quite useful quite useful I agree sickness whirlwind's edge didn't get a mention travesty. Yeah, where's where's my where's my fan content getting put in It's a super cool city Okay And then if you have a ventus fire strike in your army, which you won't until the new storm cast book is printed You get an extra command point, but neat Because because he's in charge of the city. So that's cool. That's fun Uh Tempest I You can retreat and charge or sorry retreat and shoot. I apologize with uh your tempest I an ally to ko units Okay, have we hit anything yet? You're taking No, we a gentleman. Are we taking either of these so far? Uh Hammer hall actually he's got me curious for uh, I don't hate it. I don't hate it Yeah, when I'm not when I'm running a variety pack list that I'm not leaning into anything in particular. I think it could be interesting Okay All right Um, yeah, Devin. I I think that's that's true. But I mean them putting that tells me they're gonna fix that so Um sky vessel is that all ko war scrolls or is that certain? Oh, that's just your boats That's just uh, that's just a frigate and a uh Ironclad and uh gun hauler and the gun but you can't have ironclad's in the list anymore So Frigate and gun haulers Yeah, any unit center inside of them, which are only the sky fer Sure, correct Okay Oops, sorry hallow heart Uh, hallow heart's fun. This is uh, this is fun. So so far we got hammer hall as interesting tempest I as a pass Uh, hallow heart When when when you attempt to cast a spell with a friendly hallow heart wizard You can say they will harness wild magic you roll three dice instead of two For that casting roll however an unmodified roll of 10 plus the castor suffers d three mortal wounds after the effects the spell have been resolved fantastic Great a plus if you if you roll the average roll or higher, right you take the d three mortals So getting that nine is just like a that's that's a great day for you um But yeah, this is fantastic into Unbindable numbers It's not like roll three and take the two highest. It's just roll three. Yeah Amazing incredible in the current season like wildly good in the current season Uh, yes, you could super explode yourself, but like, you know, many wizards in this book have more than just there are more than just the five wound foot People right And so Yep, this is like a really good one It's a really good one Do you have rain of jade? I know there's a lot of other spells that are better options Including in the ghb, but that is one little way that you can try to get a little healing back Obviously got her oak recovery as well in the next year phase. So go some ways potentially. Yeah to get some of those wins back Yeah, I really like how they worded this There were instances like this in this book where I felt like, okay, they're Having a better balance with some of these rules like the charge Counter charge at the end of the charge phase and this, you know, this is the drawn power growth action But with some downside whereas drawn power there's like, well, I guess drawn power does have some downside as well Right if you miss cast you're taking d6 mortal wins. So there's some meaningful downside to that as well But yeah, it's good to have that balance I love like this is Bar none the strongest one and in the in the current season. It's crazy It's crazy strong Like and yes, I agree. We'll talk about command core in a second. Yes, absolutely. We were gonna get there hallow heart so like Okay, so the build in my mind is like a bunch of shooty people In hallow heart your wiz is like you don't need it because because there's there's a non bow That's gonna happen in a second you think you put in the shooting one, but you wouldn't and I just go hallow heart for all the spells Mm-hmm Yep Yeah, okay certainly some play there Uh hammer hall gyra Nope, you can do an additional reinforcement again Now you're just trying to make fun of me for running skaven that I don't get any reinforcement points And you we get a bravery characteristic of 10 while you have models It's like if you're that worried about bravery just take the the immune trick so Or the basically immune trick you'll see in a second We'll get there I'm not concerned. It's not worth taking your self action over like I would take hallow heart a billion times before I take gyra once It's terrible Pass skip Living city you can take half your units off board It's and then they can and they can ambush in but it's edge of the battlefield traditional thing It's both your living city units and yourself in the units Okay Basically the same what it used to be the same as what it used to be Yep Still do your funny trick of taking your lumen arcs off the board and then pulling them on on the side and then firing Your little laser line down there Um, so yep still works that trick is still good Great water fastness Okay You can use the all-out attack command up to three times in your shooting phase In addition the first two times a friendly gray water fastness unit receives the all-out attack command in your shooting phase A command point is not spent. I hate this so much Now we should state that And this is debon pointing this out earlier and I was going to make this point here This doesn't say your general gets to issue it three times It's not like the pretenders where where the pop up pop Okay, and it's only your general that gives the all-out attack plus one to hit and wound So this is like one unit gets plus one to hit and wound and then two other units that are shooting get plus one to hit like normal But or or if you have no command points basically You can just issue it twice Yeah Okay And I hate when they structure them like this where it just says gray water fastness just says you can use all-out attack In your shooting phase twice for free. That's all it says Like you just get two free command points that must be spent on all-out attack For a shoot in your shooting phase but okay It's good like it's good It's a good one I would just still rather take hallow heart even in my shooting army because I want all my wizards just like auto casting crazy spells So this would synergize with master ballistics commensurate I believe The what are you talking about? The one that whenever you issue all that attack you get plus one no because it's only when you're general issues That's what I'm saying. It does it's combo with that That was my explanation. I just made Does it mean the comm I was not listening to you. No, no, you're good. It's it's a it's a thing to get to You'll you'll get the skill eventually of doing both of the ones so um Yeah, the key here with this one is it's not it's not allowing your general to multi-issue and only your general does the The stock unblocking of the best one I mean, it's still good Okay Obviously though I hate this I hate this I hate this because I hate when they say You get to do the first two for free and then the third one costs a point when it should be like the other way around Obviously the first ones you spend and then you can do twice more for free. Cool. That whatever Okay Uh, then you've got lethists Lethists Uh, all of your heroes become they're they're art wizards. Nice little copy out there um become priests And them and friendly storm cast eternal priests Hey neat, uh lethists is back, baby Uh, know the following prayer Uh, it's a value of four range of 12 picking enemy within range and it shuts off ward saves Tyler Yeah, happy to see that right you love it. You love the shut off ward saves. Don't worry. No one's gonna ever take this So it's fine. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. This is not gonna be very popular. So whatever, right? Like it's obviously a cool ability. It's in a sub faction. No one will ever pick So cool beans great When it's your prayers for the most part. So yeah Yep Um, like man says I love lethists for my more fluffy thematic list to represent my custom city No, I agree. Like this is actually my favorite city. Let me just say that Like if we're talking power, I think this is nobody's gonna take this thing But like what does vince personally love lethists? I think this is the coolest city Um, I love what it does. I love the ability to prayer I love turning all of my heroes into priests. So it's just like all priests and wizards Like flavor wise This is the absolute win. Lethists is the coolest one like by far. This is the coolest one Okay So here for that Also, it's hilarious that I can turn my steam tank commanders into priests Who are they chanting out, you know blessing and shutting off ward saves and stuff So it's cool. It's just yeah, it won't be taken And then the vindicarm friendly vindicarm units can receive the rally command While they're within three inches of enemy units in addition when a friendly vindicarm flagellant unit receives the rally command You can return one slain model to that unit for each five plus instead of a six This will be the other one taken Because this will be like the 10 of lists for people are five percent or something some small number but this will be taken As people are going to try to Like there will be people who are going to try the flagellant spam list. Hello, dear. How you doing good? How are you good? um, so yes people are going to try Uh, the flagellant spam list and this is the way you do it, right? They rally in combat There's more ways to rally in combat. We'll talk about later because you're going to have a certain lady in your list Uh And this is this gets you there a bunch of mortal wound kickback and then you bring them right back And get to rinse and repeat So Like I don't think this is a good list, but I think people will try it Yeah So I didn't take a closer look. No, that's okay What's that now? I didn't take a closer good flagellant. So we'll have to look at that when we get there. We'll look, uh, I mean I don't think it's actually a list that works, but I think a bunch of people are gonna try it There we go like and by a bunch I mean like five percent of the tournament list you see will be like that kind of thing everybody's waving at the dogs. Yes, I'm sure Oh, there you go Hit like for dogs if you haven't hit like yet. Look at this. Come on now. Tell me that's not like the cutest thing in the entire world Okay, cool But yet there's more you thought we were done. No, there's so many more Absolutely, I mean she'd do more than tom generally true Yeah, she she would generate more likes and less dislikes and tom that's that's fair No, not really. Okay Uh, I can start that trend. Sure. That's let's not Uh, all right excelsius add one to the wounds characteristic of friendly excelsius monsters Uh, in addition each time a friendly excelsius free guild cavalier unit fights After all of its tax been resolved pick one in a unit within three inches of that free guild cavalier unit Enroll a dice for each model in that cavalier unit for each four plus. They suffer a mortal wound Okay It's cool for people who want to go Yeah, people want to do some stuff there. They'll like plus one of wounds for monsters is not really anything I care about that much um, but the the cav unit turning them into the having a um Uh, a post combat mortal wound shock is actually like pretty deice. It's pretty deice couple extra mortal wounds every time. So Yeah, yeah reason to run maybe a unit of 10 They're they're on small bases. They're only in one inch reach But yeah, if you have the right situation, you can get a lot of them in with that one inch reach and then have 10 dice Potentially on four ups five mortal wounds on top of everything else. Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of interesting Yep. Yeah, cab caver are quite nice So I think they're I think they're okay Uh, I have a different opinion on them. I'm gonna when we get to them. I think they have some real Play, but boy, do they have an Achilles heel. We'll talk when we get there Settlers gain Plus one to cast rolls and then in addition if you've got a luminous realm lords hero around that's allied you get an additional command point so Notably, it's only casting but this is a good ability like plus one casting is good. So And it's all your wizards. So it's cool Uh, and then I like this one for what it's I mean just adding two command points in a battle rounds That's pretty sweet. I mean your Little heroes are more likely to stay live more readily nowadays other than aoe damage or effect damage flashing on your head And yeah, I mean, that's that's potentially I don't know. I haven't thought through to what degree can this army really leverage two additional command points In a rounds, but it seems nice on the surface No, I like it with the twins, especially since the twins got a lot cheaper. Um, go ahead, tom. I'm sorry Yeah, no, I was gonna say with the twins. Yeah Sorry, I didn't mean to steal your thunder. I apologize We were both racing for the twins like again, it just becomes a command point extravaganza with twins around Uh, and they're good. They they drop down actually quite a bit over the multiple points drop So I I think you'll see some of these lists around people play around with this I mean, yeah, plus one to casting is good. That's that's what it comes down to I'm not sure exactly what this army is Like I don't know what I'm doing with it other than like it's I'm gonna have some wizards and I've got the twins And What I would say is like what seems to be the real miss here is that it's not settler's gain wizards and lumenath allied lumenath wizards No, yeah That seems like a real miss to me because it's like seemingly incentivizing that and yet You don't actually get the benefit on your allies like you do with every other arm. Yeah, that's a good point. That is that is weird Uh, and then mist oven This is this is this is truly a wild ability Um at the end of your hero phase you can pick up to three different friendly mist oven units that are more than 12 Enches from all enemy units each of those units can make a move of up to d6 inches Roll separately for each if the unit has a mount It can make a move of up to 2d6 inches instead of d6. You ready? Units can finish this move within three inches of enemy units Okay, this one this one's fine to me. I mean, this is murderless done correctly. Yeah there Sure, because you gotta roll a 10. You gotta roll a 10. Yeah This is what this is what balance looks looks like or more like. Yeah, what do you mean you have to roll 10? The unit you picked has to be more than 12 inches away So when you started so like let's assume you're at 12.1 inches, right? So if you're going to get within three inches and hence shut off their charge and screw them up murderless style Which is obviously the play here, right? You'd have to get at least a 10 to move to within that that space So you got to roll really high and it has to be a mounted unit. Otherwise, you're just like getting closer Yeah Yeah solid It's really interesting like it's a that kind of Additional movement in your hero phase is actually pretty fascinating. I don't know if it's like Settlers gain vindicarem Hollow heart good Um, but it's it's pretty cool so So yeah with a cav plus griffin free gold marshal a couple free gold marshals On a free gold cav marshals a free gold marshal on griffin and a bunch of cav I'd be curious to try this with the tunics rocking around Uh, yep so Cool very good Um, I said, uh, it's your ally. I don't know much, but sure clarify. I'll allies don't get the City keyword Correct They just are what they are. Yeah What is the restriction on that for those keywords? What do you mean like are you asking who what allies can they take? What are you asking me? Like like I'm I'm curious about the clause that says who gets the The keyword for the city itself. So for example um, like when you have something like, uh He's normally like there's a call-out box here, right? That's that that is granting the These sub faction keywords and that's you're not getting the sub faction keywords with your allies your k or still ko You're looming out. They're still looming out and so on and so forth Yeah Like I just There's no reason they absorb the They absorb the the keyword. Um, okay best overall city. Let's do it. What's your pick? Tyler what's your Let's do this. What's your best city and then what's your favorite city? Give me both It's hard to get away from hello heart. Like I haven't looked at that like so I just looked at the book today for the first time and and wrote to all this event So I haven't even thought about other list and allies and all this like insanity of what you can actually do with this book And some of the options, uh, how hard I would guess though. You can run some powerful lists That's leaning into yeah, as you said range damage plus magic and you can really power up your magic And then favorite would probably be Living city because I just love a board play and living city still has interesting board play to me I think you can do a lot of cool things. Uh, travis my friend He is doing things with like a hurricane and three scourge runner chariots all coming in from aboard at now He's potentially getting the battle tactic with elves three charging He's getting the plus one hit on the scorch runners, but they're interesting shooting. He's keeping the hurricane alive Uh, you know, maybe bring a live longer potentially, you know, it's not coming on board round one or maybe round two and getting shut off It's coming in round three maybe and then doing a zero face trick from the remainder of the game. Hopefully I think living city can be kind of cool Tom what's your what's your what's your vote for best? What's your actual favorite? Uh, I mean, I think right now the best Generally has to be hot art Um, just simply because of the numbers just the math Yep, um And especially given the season we're in I think it's a right answer. Um, that said miss tovin is my favorite It's a super tricky ability. It's exactly the kind of thing you like Like playing to these weird outs is exactly a tom play where people are just scooting around moving around being being tricksy Well, not only that like I think about Like how this ends up like how this interfaces with things that allow you to like deep strike In the hero phase like spells and stuff like that Oh, like if you teleport things or if you teleport somebody around in the hero phase, you mean? Yep, like if you if you bridge somebody or boat somebody or something Yeah, you still get your 2d6 movement because at the end of the hero phase even though it's not Um, even though it's even if you can't move in the movement phase, that's fine You still get your 2d6 right now Um, and it's it's not a restriction on anywhere on the battlefield Like it's it's literally anyone that's farther than dwell for a minute. Sure. Um, and so It I think it has a lot of potentials for potential for like aggressive abuse It's a super cool one. Um Because like even in even in that instance like if you could for example Relocate or deep strike or whatever whether you're doing it from like I'm thinking about even endless spells and stuff You know stuff like that. Sure. You have tools, right? Like everybody has universal tools You could move those Units like teleport it and then move 2d6 And even if you're not getting into melee shortening that charge. That's normally an outrageously long charge. Sure Yeah, I agree for me. It's hollow heart is the best. I think we're all in agreement on that It's just like especially in the current season. It's so strong And then let this is my actual favorite But I think he's actually tear out into like but tier 1 is just hollow heart. It stands alone tier 2 is like Probably everything on this page uh maybe uh plus vindicarm and Throwing in gray water tier 2 probably gray water. He has in tier 2. Yeah And then tier 3 is just like everything else Or it's like yeah, it does something it doesn't do nothing, but you know It's that those are your three tiers in my mind So, okay, cool. We did it. Let's get to talk war scrolls. Here we go All right war scrolls Let's get amongst it Talia Vedra Scourge Lioness of the parche Yeah, she's cool Great model 340 points for a 15 wound four up save eight bravery. She is keyword locked to hammer haul aksha She has a mount. She can fly. She's a war master. She's got a ward of six up Well, this unit's within three inches of any enemy units This unit can issue the rally command to friendly cities of sigmar human units While they're within three inches of any enemy units In addition when it does so you can return one slain model for each four up instead of a six Thanks. I hate it Okay, not only does it allow you to rally in combat it rallies on a four up It's like they tried to write a rule that would be like Truly the worst thing in the world. Great. It sounds like it's a reason to run hammer haul aksha Sure Well, speaking of that unparalleled tactician If she's in a city of sigmar army when orders being given to heroes This unit can be given two orders instead of one each order must be different If you're in hammer haul aksha where you also have that ability then she and one other hero could both be given two orders So it is now representing quite a material Increase in the amount of orders that you have every round Sure And then paralyzing venom It's a monster section you get that works against other monsters that on three that makes them strike last You get your own unique little monsters rampage So, yeah, she's fine. Um, you know She's cool Like it's a beautiful model. I think I think 340 points is probably the correct points for her. She's not like an incredibly damaging Model, she's okay. Like she does okay damage Her sting is very very strong at d3 plus three damage when it's unwounded But she only gets two of those attacks and hits on a four, right? Um, and then other than that her attacks are like, they're fine They're fine So, you know, she's not like Incredibly fragile, but she's also not super tough. She's 15 wounds on a four up six up Okay So she's got a good bonuses. She has decent attacks good utility 340 points feels eminently fair It's a fine workable. Yeah, I mean she moved her base move is 14 inches. Like I don't want to undercount that That's a heck of a move, right? I'm a I'm a fan as well. I really like the monstrous rampage pick one new monster made a charge move within three of this unit Realized three up strike class effect flies the new monster. So yeah nice having that It's a it's a threat. There's still a lot of monsters fair number monsters that roll around in this game I see she's not an auto include remotely not not even remotely not to include but she's she's competitively viable She's interesting beautiful model like she's in that range where you know Good enough. You would you would take you could take her and make her work in the list I would see her standing doing the classic uh screen in front whether it's fusillators and stillhounds whatever Where would they end your enemy ends of charge within a half inch of that screen in front? They end within three inches of her as well so that you're going to immediately she'll get pulled in But hopefully she'll be protected from getting hit or minimize getting hit right and then you've got the four-barrelly benefit in place as needed Like that I could see and you could give the command like the return fire that if she gets shot Yeah She can give the return fire to the unit behind all the all the fusilliers behind her like get them That's a great point. Tom. I didn't thought about that. Yeah, because right you like subconsciously My mind is trained over eight years to think oh this piece is going to be at risk of just getting shot off the board Well, not necessarily Not as she's floating near fusilliers. Yeah. Yeah, you're welcome to remove her or take shots at her But guess what? I get I get to also pick up your toys. Yeah, you will pay for that that decision. Absolutely Play for blood Okay. Yeah at 340. I think she's cool. Like I think there's some play here And yes as pointed out elect pan is correct and it's we're saying it's not like her rally is locked to hammer hole She's locked to it, but the the the lead from the front isn't so you can take her in other none of her abilities are Correct. She is she is so what that means is that you could include her get full benefit from her in any army But it's just she can't benefit from the actual Traits like so she couldn't get the 2d6 move for miss or sure. Uh, Sure for mishap or whatever. Yeah, yeah I mean, hey, she ain't a wizard anyway, so it seems like halloward still winning It's fine with me. All the other people who are wizards are still benefiting Cool. Okay Uh, all right dupe Okay, now we come to the first of two problems in this book Pontifex sinestra matriarch of the great wheel nine wounds on a five up save bravery nine She's got her crew. She's got some attacks. They don't matter Uh, this unit can attempt to spell one endless spell to start your hero phase and unbind one spell In the enemy hero phase just like a wizard. She also gets plus one to that No, no, no No, no, no She got a ward of four up. So all of a sudden we're turning that save Situation turn that frown upside down that five up save is backed up by a four up ward and then she has a prayer because she is in fact a priest and She gets to Chanted and it has an answer value of three If this unit's within your territory you get to pick one of the effects below to apply Until your next hero phase if it's answered and she is Not within your territory pick two of the effects below instead of one Boy is this often map dependent how powerful this ability is but it's still really good Hollowed ground your units all get a five up ward while they're wholly within 18 inches Of this unit Yeah, woof. Uh, that's a good that's a good five up That is a good five up. Uh, so you're choosing that one. That's always one Probably And then the great wheel turns two inches to the move characteristic Which is for a friendly city sigma human units on the battlefield. So again. Oh, by the way, she's like super racist I just want to point that out because she only affects humans With her magical prayers Um, so I'm glad to see that, you know, no elf could ever Turn and see the the glory of sigma Racist Um I really like I'm saying that jokingly but at the same time. I actually really hate crap like this Like there's no reason this stuff has to be Loft like that Like these are all sigmar cities Right, like she's meant to pair with the flagellants is what they're trying to communicate with it Uh, yeah, she is as they make her battle line. Um, but like I really really still hate it It would just be better if she was actually like she's a priest Um, it's yeah, it's wild. Anyways Um, yes, Keith rogers holy within 18 laugh at the hollow heart drawback for humans. Yes, correct Um Are you taking d3 mortals? Half the five up ward that'll help As an aside, we also have an order that I free so now we're up to movement five Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yes Um, so this yes, you can get quite a lot of extra movement here Um, she can cast out evil. This is uh another effect She can pick which is royal dice reach enemy wizard and priest on the battlefield on two up They separate d3 more to wounds quite a potentially potent effect. Um, if you're looking to talk about slash mortal wounds So I imagine that will also often be a choice. I guess Are crews considered mounts or not? Is a crew considered a mount? Um I have to look and remember exactly how that rules wording works Yes, for the purposes of some things But I don't know if that's like true all the time I are you wondering about the d6 versus 2d6 move? Yeah, I don't think that would trip that Because I believe that what it acts is your crew is a prohibition where they're treated as a mount for purposes of like Everything that is prevented from mounts, but I don't think they're I don't think they count as a mount just like being the thing. This is referencing the other way around If that makes sense yeah I'm just trying to uh figure out how how Like the movement doesn't really matter like ultimately but you could include this in like a blood head of blood hate And pretty easily you may be solving blood havens where nightwing is from but I got you. I I'm aware. Thank you Uh Because you could pretty easily be like 2d6 at the end of the hero plus five from orders and this Plus whatever your base movement Sure To get her out of the zone or something like that. No No, none of that movement that I just said is is None of that movement is is range restricted So you would just need a hero to trigger the the plus three movement No, I got you I meant if you're trying to get her in position outside of your territory more easily or have her around or have her Have her ward broadcasting exactly where you want it and so well She can be anywhere broadcast this right like she has to succeed on the prayer But she could be anywhere to give that plus two movement And so you could have for example, like I like think about like a Uh a general on Griffin or a dragon or something like that with a high movement It could be near mounted units, right? So the order like it will get pushed off It will get pushed up with the 2d6 And then as long as they're within three the mounted units They're going to then get the movement bonus the trigger movement bonus plus her movement bonus for five plus whatever Your base movement it's like you could you could shoot a unit Like a mounted unit across table turn one super easily this way sure Yeah, Devin. I'm not sure that's exactly correct. I'll need to go check on it Like you very well might be right, but like the way it's referencing this it might not function in that way It's it's an interesting question. It might end up being an FAQ But anyway, she's 150 points. She's amazing. She'll be in like a ton of armies Like There you go She's she's real good at 150 points If you want to use her to nuke some little heroes take a night vexler or two with her Sure, and and have a good time Boom shake shake shake the room as down comes the the meteoric standards as well as her prayer. Yes Uh, we can just kill all the little heroes all at once lookouts her be darned Uh, so yep Yeah, I mean, uh, I think it's fair to say Like yeah, she's gonna be have times where it feels like she's not doing anything You're gonna fail the three. I mean she's mainly there for the five of board obviously Okay, now you're not getting the main benefit from her. So I don't want to see her points go up too crazily. I mean, it's kind of one of these She's not a 300 point hero, but she ain't 150 point here. This is Let me say it this way at 150 points She's an auto include Yeah, that's yes Absolutely every spg list every awful horrible spg list is spamming both of their five of board heroes in virkos when they run that way Why because it takes massive amounts of zombies and gives them all five of wards Which just makes it so the attrition is terrible They're like the math just becomes terrible Okay, she broadcasts a much bigger bubble than torgillus does Okay, and has other utility Like it's also on a three up answer if you have any way to modify that I understand that So I mean one one third of the turns of the game You will not have that that bubble. I'll take the swing Like torgillus is the same price as this Is 150 and he's like a five wound moron that his only ability is he is a five of ward And no argument every list what should it buy is it 190? Please I don't I don't feel that great about like I can see 190 If I were going higher than that I start to get a little bit worried at least as a starting point It's definitely not 150 Because this is also not doing anything outside of that buff I I mean first of all, no disagree It's doing two things when you're outside of your territory and the other thing is do a bunch of mortal wounds Or make all your units faster. Those are things Okay Like those are absolutely things and Uh, she's not that super easy to remove because of a four of ward like yeah, sure you can roll bad You can roll good like a four of wards a four of ward if you're not cutting the ward She just sometimes will keep living Um Like I mean what I would say is this I don't think it's as hot of a pick as you think of it Oh Careful, you're wandering into zombie territory here my dog. I understand. No, I understand like I think it's good I I do. I think it's good, but I at I I think that what you're going to experience when this is on the table Right. Uh-huh. Well is is Is not going to be What you think you're going to get like I think that some aspects of it are going to be really good But I think sometimes it's actually you're going to rely on it and that's going to be of us I mean what I have is a 66 percent time. Sure. Let's just say there's no mystical terrain around. There's no other thing I have that's just modifying this let's say I have a giant five of ward bubble plus often a second effect Okay You have to push that bubble forward in order to get your Order to get in order to get your Your benefit, but that bubble then is going to move and it may not be on the battlefield where you need it to be Uh, she also can issue orders. I would point out She does still get that too. She's a hero for orders. Sure. She's also doing that like 150 is is is just crazy cheaper. What should be your cost? I don't know. It's 190 or 200 It's that's the that's the actual correct point cost. Well, yeah, that's what I meant to say at the start is I'm I feel like, you know, because some of the points are off Are we ticking up the buffs the buff war scrolls? Are we ticking up like the fusilliers the unit war scrolls? I tend to think we need to tick up some of these buff war scrolls. It's the buff war scrolls. Yeah 100 Yeah, you you make you make building the the combo the wombo combo more expensive Yeah, but yeah, I just I would work because again trying to run like I haven't looked at a here's the stupid skewed Leaning into the you know, the full bore 50 effort and what that's going to look like That's the probably some folks have written that maybe it's in some of the coaches shows But in trying to write a variety pack list that I thought was competitive interesting New models like it didn't seem that far off, but it did feel a little too much Yeah, just like I said, she's a 300 point hero. I mean, let's not get insane. Okay But she's not a hundred and fifty point hero. That's just that's just wild Sure Like I said, she's a hundred ninety two hundred. That's the correct point cost. She's like She's like way over utilities for what she's achieving right here Like you could compare it to 20 other war scrolls and and like Tyler, I'm sorry. How much is your herald of nergal? I'm sure 120 130. Yeah It's out of a wizard as well. Yeah, he's a wizard. He's a single cast wizard that is literally his ability He's a single cast wizard and I believe it's 130 points right now. So With five wounds Okay, get out of here Get out of here A lot of 150 get out of here No Okay Okay, let's go 190 and we'll see how that's looking Connor steven said I don't think any of this needs to go up because a lot of it depends on things going off You could have a turn where no buffs go off Yeah, sure you could but that's not how we point cost things Like it's not that unlikely either. It is still the more likely scenario than not Yeah, like as a skaven player, let me tell you what? Yes, you're right You you have turns where you can't do that Sometimes units hit on a three up. You still point cost units for their for their average damage Okay, you don't point cost. I'm assuming they're all ones I'm gonna say anything over 170. I'm gonna get in the sketch territory I think that's crazy. I I she's easily 190 I'm being generous. This is me being merciful I'd like to hit her even harder I don't think she'll get there. It'll take like two points increases for to get there Yeah, they almost like I'm just thinking about other similar like utility heroes in this point range and other armies and like The the issue tom it's just the design, right? It's the it's such a massive benefit There's a huge huge gap between on and off here. Yeah, you think about something like this and like a Luminar that's giving like a huge bubble right historical, right? um The difference is is that's actually like doing something on the battlefield Like that's actually doing mortal wounds and stuff like that. This isn't this is not doing anything It's not holding objectives Nope, she's she's two models on an objective same as the Luminar. Yeah, like she's not like she's not She's not achieving anything with a five inch move Um, you're you're not gonna ever do damage with at all like that's not something that can be done She will never remove any other model from the board. I disagree her cast out evil Like as you guys pop in your second thing will absolutely remove models from the board All their utility heroes are dead with a simple combination of a couple things Like she can be she is a part of the plan to absolutely wipe out every five-wounds hero the enemy unit has the enemy army has Sure. What is that? What does iron jaws have to say to that? All your war chaners are dead. They really that really sucks Is what they have to say to that because that's a pretty critical piece to my success plan Like that's plus one damage It's pretty important. And by the way if she gets the five up word off which she there are there are plenty of cases where she can do both She also blunts my damage pretty badly So yeah, I'd say she's a pretty direct answer Like I she's really good Like bottom line Yeah I mean, I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that I again, I'm wanting to say like Outside of like she herself is doing nothing On the battlefield. Sure. Oh, you're right. Yes, the war changer is not actually pretty sorry. I wouldn't kill him I apologize. Thank you. All right, Travis. Sorry, right, and they're not and they're not wizards So like I know a lot of people run on a small wizards and priests and crap now. It's true It's true. But at the same time, like I also think that we're gonna live in a world like Again, I agree that 150 seems to be low For the effects. Sure I would also say that I think like 190 and you're gonna be You may not see her very often At 10 percent of your army as a passive buff that does nothing else. All right. No more. No. Yeah Not to belabor this too long. We've probably spent enough time on her. Obviously. She's strong. We can all agree on that There we go. Okay. I just I want to cut this off because I we got we got too much more to talk about We got like 40 more war scrolls. This is the point the quibble is the buffs that how much are we taking up the buff pieces? Right, and that's the pieces. We're going to come to the we're going to come to the more egregious guy in a minute Uh, all right flagellants. They're 100 for 10. They are battle line with her Uh, she's what makes them battle line. They make a bunch of attacks very Averagely and when they're slain on a five up they do a mortal wound to a unit within three inches So They only have a six up they save People will try the flagellant spammy army in vindicarm or whatever like this will be tried especially with Uh, with her in the mix like giving them a five up ward Because a five up ward and a five up rally means they do actually stand a a very decent chance of just becoming zombies The difference is they are far more expensive than zombies like way more expensive than zombies and so But somehow that's true But with vedra, she can put them back in combat. It's true. Uh, so can uh Uh Yeah, yes, she can. Um, doesn't vindicarm do that as well? Where's that? Yeah, vindicarm can do that as well So Right, but that's rallying on a five. Sure. No, she can rally him on a four. No, it's great. Absolutely. It's even better Yeah, yeah 100 percent And yes devon, I agree with you. That's that's that's who we're gonna get to Um, I mean the difference here is like I said the difference between flagellants and zombies is massive And that somehow zombies are still like horrendously undercosted Um, these guys are 100 for 10 zombies are 130 for 20 I don't and and they regen half their unit when they die. I don't understand the the world Yeah, okay, like zombies are still straight busted sideways and yet here we are Okay, cool free guild marshal on griffin tyler you want to talk about this guy you're a fan of this guy Give us give us a little break down here percent 14 inch move fantastic 15 wounds four up save pretty solid You got three options rune sword great hammer or lance I really like the lance So charging lance you get a extra damage and extra pip of rent on the charge You got a two inch reach on the lance four attacks threes and threes That's going to be minus two three damage. I mentioned the sigmarite warhammer artifact combination So that'll take that up to minus three rend four damage or a very lovely minus four rent On the counter charge with all of this going off. Yeah, I need the sign to tap I need to be able to tap the sign remember counter charge. Yep Oh And yeah, just uh at least when I went through this book today I was as I mentioned noticing a relative A little low on the mobile hammer options Drake spawn knights freakle catalyzers free guild marshal on griffin I think fills that slot very nicely as part of balancing a list And yeah, I really love this guy 270 piercing blood roar. You can do two roars I wouldn't you do the best monsters rampage of the game twice seems good Yep, and then finally and then tom I'll just take it away when Orders are given to heroes. He can give two orders instead of one each order must be different You think tom I'd be happier if you go on a three upset Sure, sure that would be a fair amount more expensive or scroll though Yeah, he lost his old have a shield and get a get a three up save option that he used to have Um, but he's good at 270. I like him. That's the right points cost for this guy. He is a little bit fragile But he does a lot of stuff like he's got some some cool some cool tricks going on the double order things fun He's very mobile. He can do some real damage Yeah Yeah, I'm just thinking somebody more or a gotsy right like um and Like he doesn't have a word save and he's on a forum they save like that like he he will get removed quickly well Again, your point might apply with how this army So one straightforward way this aren't like you read the book right the new model side This army says castle early shoot the hell out of your opponent Basically, it's kind of like a techless sentinels type of build Yeah, also has some of these mobile pieces I mean techless sentinels build kind of small pieces, but the this piece like this is going to break out, right? You keep a protector through the return fire trick That's where you don't want to shoot it. So now you're lying on magic or AoE, which is not going to be enough Right, and then it breaks out later in the game Yeah, it can act a little bit like a distraction carn effects at 270 Honestly, like it can be threatening enough. It can stand off the side. It has the counter charge capability The double orders mean you can always kind of keep the counter charge in the pocket on him and still have the other one You know still have like return fire or something else you need there Um, so you can be rocking with both options, which is nice Um, yeah, I think he's an interesting piece. I don't think he's like an auto clue, but I think he's got some tech He's got some play Yeah, potentially really, you know various ways to get bonus bonus movement, you know the plus three potentially plus two from Uh, it's an extra potentially wild form Yeah, it's to get really fast really quick miss davin miss tovin. Yep Yep Okay, cool he's good Free guild marshal and relic envoy. This is the new guy on foot. This is like a huge page for this. It's so funny Uh, okay, he's a dude. He's a dude with a three up save and five wounds But his important thing is the little guy that's with him that isn't actually a guy At the start of your hero phase You must choose for this unit's relic envoy to attend to the marshal or deliver a message If you choose for him to attend you can carry out a heroic action With this unit in addition to any other unit you carry out a heroic action with so he can't do two But he gets to do one in addition If you choose the relic envoy to deliver a message You pick one of the friendly cities of sigmar unit wholly within 12 of this unit until the start of your next hero phase The next time that unit receives a command a command point is not spent And then the designers note just says hey, this other dude isn't real you can just use him as a placeholder. It's fine All right, and then rousing speech. He has a heroic action. He can use once per battle Or he can pick up to three friendly cities of sigmar human units Holy within 18 inches of this unit for each unit picked will 2d6 The score is less than or equal to that unit's bravery until the end of that turn Models in that unit count as two models for the purposes of contesting objectives Cool This guy's fine Like at 90 points, he's fine Yeah, uh, that's he's where I like to be at 90. Yeah, sure. Like he does stuff. It's cool Yeah, I'm I am gonna have to step out gentlemen. Um, that's fine, buddy Uh, yeah, it's it looks like a good book. You hung in as long as you could All right. Do you want to see hold on here? Let's let's I want to uh Where are they I'm gonna jump ahead here, tom before you leave. I want to do this scroll with you Okay, and then we'll then we'll go back. Sure, then I'll then then go I want to talk about the free guild command core. We're just gonna jump right ahead to these guys. Okay Sure So Let me just state right out of the gate. I hate all units like this forever and ever. I hate them I hate these grab bag lunatic units. I hate gabapalooza. I hate these guys I hate grab bag units full of nonsense where I've got to be like Which one am I which one is this which one are you removing? What does he do? What does this one do? What does this one do? Why is this thing five different packs of rules and a tiny five wound or five Model thing hate them hate them hate them. Please stop doing this the increase in complexity and what you put on the board is insane I just I hate fighting against armies that have this crap Okay, at least it's a totem Yes, now While it has this little great herald, it's a totem in addition to everything else. This is 170 point Menagerie of idiots that they must have crafted for like something Who knows why the studio made these some weird underworld? I would say it is an underworld. You know that that's what yeah Okay, now rules wise these guys are like Really good But like I just I hate crap like this Yeah, okay the marshal's retinue To start the first battle round before determining who has the first turn you can pick one friendly free guild marshal and relic I'll envoy on the battlefield to this unit to be assigned to You can't pick the same one more than once that free guild marshal has a ward of four plus So that's the previous guy we just looked at that's one of the reasons I wanted to jump here Because this is kind of being his retinue right, but that's not really the reason you take these Okay Uh now saw bones You can only use this ability while this unit has a war surgeon at the end of your hero phase You can pick up to three friendly cities sigmar human units Holy within 12 of this unit. You can either heal a d3 or return d3 models Yeah, okay, so here's some model restoration pretty good Dispatch spies if you have the whisper blade, that's the cool person with the red with the face mask in the art That's red but black in the painting It should have been red. It looks so much cooler with red. It's like storm shadow over here You can only use this ability while this unit has a whisper blade once perturbed an enemy unit issues to command You can say the whisper blade will attempt to disrupt it if you just serve will it die on a four plus that command is not received And the command point is still issued and they can't do it again. So super powerful super strong Like obviously a crazy unit very annoying to deal with that Sound the advance when you have a great herald you can add one to run in charge roles For friendly city sigmar human units while they're holy within 12 of any friendly units that have a great herald In addition when a friendly city sigmar human unit holy within 12 of any friendly units that have a great herald retreats You can add d3 inches to their move characteristic Of all models in that unit until the unit phase two very strong abilities plus one to run in charge and plus d3 to retreat All very strong And then tune of the corpus somni Okay, sure. What does the little dog do? Uh, why doesn't he have special abilities? Keep it rolling What the dog does is add extra wounds. All right tune of the corpus somni You can only use this ability while this unit has a soul shepherd in the battle shock phase Each time a model would flee from a city to sigmar human unit while that friendly unit is holy within 12 This unit will die on a four plus that model does not flee Uh the same unit cannot be affected by this ability more than once the same phase This is the trick I was talking about earlier. If you do take that one command trait Now you effectively have two bites at the apple on a four up It's not actually battle shock immunity, but it cuts it by effectively 75 Um So like you just don't really care not many people will ever run. I don't think it actually matters It's not that big a deal, but this guy is really really strong. This is obviously super strong We mentioned hallow heart So your three wizards that are sitting there blowing themselves up every round take d3 mortals heal d3 wounds If they're near because you get to pick three units to solve bones If you happen to be near the pont effects, you probably took less than then What's getting restored anyways so all your castors can just run it Like full send it every round full send full send full send We're going hot. Everybody's rolling three. Let's go Mm-hmm pretty cool. That's what these guys do I wanted to get your take on these guys tom before you bounced on this grab bag insane. Oh unit. What do you think of this thing? Uh, it's racist And I want to paint it It is pretty cool. It's a cool looking unit right, yeah Like I think that out of like from a rule standpoint it ends up being functionally a body guarding unit for your Um, and I I've used that loosely obviously with that for a board. Um for your uh, your free guild marshal, right? Um, because it's going to stand near him and And it's made of six models technically Right, yeah one arch knight one whisper blade one great herald one war surgeon one soul sherald and one mascot gar gar gargoyleon Right and it's and it's not a It is not a Um It's not a hero. So technically it would grant lookouts or two heroes nearby. Is that correct? correct Um So it's actually going to give some nice benes To that free guild marshal with the four up save and lookouts are Um I mean, I think that it it makes it's going to make them army wonderfully non-mobile Because everybody's going to be when want to be with the brain of these idiots buffs Sure, and it's going to it's going to pull the it's going to pull everything in sure Um, and so like I love this and yet You're forcing yourself to castle is what this is sure Which I think will be the sort of de facto build when we start Like I really think this will end up with a lot of castle builds that go heavy shooting and have like a This pack of morons in the middle Right, so they can just fire off tons of magic and like heal their fusiliers Uh, and that's it and that's the plan right and like, uh, technically It doesn't have the you can't affect a unit multiple times with saw bones right now So like you can take two of these guys, I believe because I don't think they actually have the single keyword Or sorry, uh unique keyword. I'm sorry Um, nope just single not unique and so like, you know these dumb thumbs can you just have two of these packs It's just like a wild d&d party two of them just hanging out in the middle of your group just doing nonsense So Yeah, yeah So yeah, I just thought I wanted to cover that before you go. Okay, Tom. You're good We can we can go back to where we were now See buddy Good night, buddy But now for one of my Favorite models. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Tyler. Yeah playing on that free gold command corps. Yeah I know we're anti talking in book battle tactics on this show But there is of course a battle tactic that these guys help you with So if you control an objective previously controlled by your opponents with great heralds as part of The command corps so another reason to take this unit I get your point though about the insane complexity that a unit like this adds to the game into an army It just makes me want to literally shoot it with everything just kill it Just burn it with fire. Just like I will attack this thing. I see red when I see goofball units like this um Free gild cavalier marshal love this fig so much Um, this is a really cool design on this guy too. He's 120.7 wounds on three up save Looks like a horse. Um, does have a little pistol attack, which I love because he got that pistol on the hill Or on the on the horse When he uses finest hour, he also gets plus three to charge and all friendly free gild cavaliers get that bonus as well Whoa big big. Uh, yeah, I'm a big fan of that rule Like I love the the writing of that rule. It's so cool. That is a great rule Interplay interplay with finest day. And yeah, yes have your best day ever and you and your horses Like ride now Right now for wrath now for ruin. Absolutely Uh, man, that's awesome. Again, like that's like we're at like Four or five levels on our stack here, right? Sure And and zanestra and the plus three, but like yeah, it's great wild form Oh, I can tap the sign here again because there's no reason you couldn't find a stour in the enemy phase and then We'll rise and charge and counter charge and yada yada So tap the sign. Yeah Uh, and then uh, he also has run down the foe. Um, he strikes first and he, um, also pulls in free gild cavaliers So pretty great. He charges and makes them charge farther and Is awesome like if you are looking at an excelsiast build Man, this dude is in your list instantaneously and doing awesome things So now you're charging with him pretty much automatically. You're charging with the writers pretty much automatically You're getting in there. You're those two units are both asf, right? And uh, and then after they fight their mortal wound or the the cavaliers are mortal wound shocking the enemy That's a scary hard hit Yeah And like you said, the sign is up with the the counter charge here with the Minus three rents on the counter charge and they would be fighting First if this guy gets in and the cavaliers get in two units will be fighting first before the opponent even gets to fight When they just charge into you So, yeah, I mean, you know, it's gonna some situations gonna be hard to set that up But if you can execute it, yeah, it's gonna get scary quick. Yep. Agreed I like this dude a lot. I like the the mounted thing. As I said, I think when we get to the actual Um, free gild cavaliers that there's there's a big problem with them, but I still think it's cool Um alchemyte warforger the most undercosted unit in the book and fighting for most undercosted unit currently in the game He has attacks. They don't matter. He's a wizard. Who cares. You're never going to cast spells with them Uh, at the start of your hero phase, you can either stoke or expend the power Yeah, stoke that power, baby If he stokes it, he gets plus one to cast That's fine. You're not doing that uh And but if you expend it, which you can do any number of times, which is nice. Apparently, you're not really expending it So that's fun Then uh He can't cast any spells, but until the start of your next hero phase you had one to save rolls For friendly cities of sigmar human units while they are wholly within 12 inches of this unit I really need that like guy falling down the side of the trailer meme that hey, well uses on his stream I need to be able to pop that up because it would happen right now Uh, it's an incredible ability mystic shield everybody within 12 inches of him Now he does they do have to stay wholly within 12. So he's got to keep up the line It's written that allows you to stack it right now if you have two of these you could stack two of it As far as I can tell yep I think that I'm assuming that will be corrected relatively quickly, but you are right Right now it can Yes That is a wild ability Uh, because yes, it's not it's written and he's pointed like as though you do this once a game But you don't you do this every round So if that gets f aq to be once a game I might be back on board here, but we haven't mentioned the spell yet Yeah, hey, uh, yeah some cast players around the world, you know, including you we pay 160 points for one guy We've been doing it for a very long time my friend who does this on one unit and he's still in all kinds of lists We love this guy Now on the flip side that can't he can buff them and then they can go off That's true. That's right But like it seems a fair trade to say well, you can't leave, but it's everybody And it's sex 70 70 points cheaper. Yeah Like these guys are way too good He also has a really good spell which is a shame because he won't cast it But it is a good spell That's a great spell. I can see people casting this. Sure. It's a cast on seven range of 12 You get to pick a friendly citizen or a human unit have blazing weapons 420 blaze it, baby Well, they have blazing weapons each unmodified hit roll of six For an attack made by that unit causes one mortal wound to the target in addition to doing a damage inflicts No, I say that as a joke But like honestly flipping over like depending on the particular round or what's going on in the game state Flipping to plus one to cast and then firing this off Is also completely viable um because Tyler This isn't melee attacks I know Yeah, I got to experience it the other day Yes, I'm a few ciliers Yeah, Devin says oh, he will because you take multiple of them. Sure. Yeah, I mean realistically if you've got two of these guys Um, you you like one puts the shield well the shield up and then one Just sits there and stokes the few ciliers for mortal wounds on a six in addition That's on the hit roll, baby. That's on the hit roll So Yeah Any points should we actually be paying for this fella? Is I can I agree? Oh, by the way. Yes. I'm sorry. Thank you. Yeah, you're correct. We can deck it in Yes, I'm sorry The spell is even better because Tyler. I'm sorry. I made it sound like the spell was you pick one unit and do that It's not just like his other thing. It's all units within 12 So in case you've got multiple units a few ciliers or or the I don't know like whatever sure your cannon also does some bonus mortal wounds or whatever just for funsies You know, it's cool. Why not like everything that shoots does mortal bonus mortal wounds. Yeah, you can roll sixes on any of them, Tyler Yeah This guy is at least 150 160 points maybe more Oh, really? He should go if nothing gets eroded if this stays exactly as it is Okay, like if nothing else on this scroll changes. Yeah, this dude's like 160 Now I could wheel back on that if we say like the save doesn't stack Or you know, like if thing if other errada goes in there He's 160 like baseline with no with no other rules changes. This dude is wild Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely at 120 Probably 130. I'm not sure like said this is this to me starting with an estra and more forger Is where we are looking at potential point changes But how hard are we going in on this because when I wrote my first list the list didn't feel too off But of course I was writing the more friendly variety pack, you know list not not Yeah, you didn't you didn't person skew that we will actually see in most tournaments. You wrote a Tyler list Exactly. So it's yeah With that in mind. Yeah, he probably has to go up more. Yeah Like He is again, I'm saying this all without rules changes What I'd actually rather see is the logical rules changes happen here And then we don't have to like breakneck the points up that far Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just start to worry with this army Yeah, if you're hitting the buff units too much that you're yeah, I get it But like this is easy sunk cost fallacy where because we're starting at 90 you're like, well, we can't move it too far Sure, sure we can we can move it anywhere. It should be right. That's where it should be moved Doesn't matter what it is now Okay, like what if he had if they had put 30 points on there could we only move them up to 90? And the guy's written as like a 130 point unit easily to me easily If my balloons would have saved Sure Like I mean I could see going higher, but yeah, I don't know like this dude is wild good The fact that both of his ridiculous buffs are just a oes that hit every unit in range and they're both Really really good now given they are mutually exclusive or he can't do both of them Right a single one can't do both of them But two of them can and at the current points cost, that's very achievable Yeah, man. Yeah, it's uh, that's oh he have orders too, by the way Yeah And 36 casts in halloward Like all of that is still true The the number one thing on the board if you want to compete against this army is have ways to nuke small heroes That is often an answer right now in the state of this game, which I find Frustrating, I don't know. It's a different conversation, right? But that's kind of where we are with a lot of these armies, right? It's like do I do I have a way to aoe nuke off and if I do then my gameplay is a lot different If I don't and I'm like a melee army I'm going to be facing a number different very difficult games if I don't actually get into these here It's just like a weird game state that we're in right now with this stuff But and this guy really expresses it Yep, yeah, I agree Devin Gortman said best hero in the book and it's the cheapest. Yeah, I I agree Yeah We need someone who isn't going to play this army on the panel I'm not gonna play this army. I don't play I like I have a city's army I'm not I'll play it a few times just to test it because I always I was I always try to take every book out for a test normally like to do it before we use review shows I just didn't get a chance because of Nova and everything I would have played it last weekend But I'm not gonna play it I'll play against this army all the time because my my buddy's been like Hitting me up constantly like yo when we play next. I want to get this city stuff on the table. I'm sure you do buddy Okay uh Battle mage Battle mage 100 points The fact that this guy's more expensive than the past guy just like sure I don't know if you know who Brian Regan is. He's a comedian and he's like He's a great comedian and he talks about how like he was looking at that He likes reading the the information like the the nutrition information on the side of something He's looking at he's like I was eating a pine ice cream the other day Of course, I'm eating the whole pint and I look at the side I look at the serving size The serving size says half a cup half a cup Who eats a half a cup of ice cream? I eat Like he like a serving size is when your spoon scrapes the bottom of the the package, right? He's like how did it who put half a cup on there? They put that on there as a joke like somebody put on there. It's just like Yeah, look at that. I put half a cup on there and they're all going out like that put that on there as a joke This being a hundred when the other guy's 90 is this this being shipped out as a joke He's a single cast wizard. He can do a bunch of different things Um The most common one people will take will be the ancient grimoire for just the symbol plus one to casting rules But you know, yeah It's fun. Yeah, I mean I like the rules writing on this. That's yeah, it's it's neat Sure, uh follow exactly by by the way the realm stone ore but with the plus six to the range of your range Right. Yep, which are both really really good Yep, it's kind of hello hearts with uh, yeah the built-in bonus is to cast and yeah getting your extra range Be pretty nice piece Yep Battlemage is your only uh access to paul miasma. Yeah, I think that's correct. Um, yep because Only access to one I said why why couldn't the Yeah, because the alchemyte war forger has to take transmutation of lead The other guys have to take the the light wizards have to take the other spells. They're locked in He can take anything You made a screw up on my list then I missed that part of the collegiate arcane Transmission lead I had I had one with a wild form. No. Yeah, he has to take transmutation of lead if he takes the spell It's okay Um, yes, correct. I knew that I had seen that restriction and then forgot all about it Um, but yeah, I mean battle mage is fine. It's battle mage. It's always been classic It's your hundred point wizard. He dies to a stiff breeze, but he's good. He does he does magics cool All right battle mage on griffin Uh This guy by the way is locked to wild form because he's the beast wizard Uh I hate this guy Yeah, I was trying to figure out am I missing something a combination. He wasn't getting there for me either like I mean, he's relatively cheap 50 15 wounds four up, but yeah, it's not really doing enough. He's I think if he were a two spell cast two unbind Then that would be notable That's just one Yeah, I don't know If anybody yeah in the chat has any thoughts on this guy I couldn't figure out why he would not get off the bench. No, he's bad That's it. That's it. I like he's bad Just take just take a regular battle mage for for wild form. You don't need this guy Yeah, with the with the slot that he would be in I you know, I don't see him. Yeah, fulfilling right like you're not going to take him as your hammer Uh, you're not going to spend the money on him as a wizard He's he's does bad damage. He's not very survivable. He's yeah, it's he has no special ability to speak of that are valuable No, he's just an overcost in 250 point wizard all right Battle mage on celestial her econum and then the celestial her econum itself Obviously the first one's a hero. The second one is just the thing Um, this wizard is locked to twin tailed comet, which is unfortunate um Like super unfortunate Uh weak and decadent says why is the bird with two heads not the one with double roar? That's a really good question Uh, so this thing is really good. It's like really really good The celestial her econum It's really really good Is it that's that's the that's the claim I've been hearing. Okay in the hero phase the hero face You can pick one in a minute with an 18 inches this unit roll a number of dice equal to the number of the current Battle round for each roll of two plus the enemy unit suffers d three mortal wounds so That gets that escalates quickly Okay And then he also is a giant like a no, I should say giant that's not fair He is a reasonable sized bubble of plus by the hit. It's nine inches only within nine He is a big base. He's on a chariot base And then he's got chain lighting which is a pretty de-spell Uh, which is good because you don't want to cast stupid twin tail comet so you can cast this though instead Which is nice Yeah, I know there's a little hype around the her econum. I don't think he's under pointed. I just think he's really good I think this is probably the correct amount of points for this dude. It's 12 wounds on a four up save with no ward I think this is the correct amount of points. I'm just saying. I think he's really good like Like things can be really good without being bent Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of folks think that this guy's bent Like the idea of spamming them and blah blah. I mean Like taking three of the her econums, right? That's uh, 230 460 690 700 points for three of these Uh, by the time you're really going to turn that on round three in particular You I don't know. I mean round three and four if you managed to keep this thing alive. It is due in damage Yeah Like that's an average of six to eight mortal wounds coming out of this thing. I think small Yeah, I think that's where i'm at the tl near on this. I think it's it's fine. It's good But I don't think it's remotely busted A lot of people thinking that this thing's like busted. It's underpriced. Blah blah blah. I don't see that I played against it Uh, it it was fine like Yeah Like the game was the game was dictating round three Sure A lot of a west games are over in round three. Correct better worse right now, right? So it's like I'm not Yeah, and and if this thing is surviving into round four and five By they're already lost or you have bad target prioritization I would say Like you've probably potentially done something wrong The this thing is going to be a magnet for trying to go down You are right cool. I should have said return the fact is in both hero phases It's really strong like I don't want to understate that it's really strong Yeah, it ignores lookouts are and all that so I can just like from round three on It is going to just start executing any small hero in range Yeah, and I get all that I just Feel like they're just dead Yeah, like to me. This is going to be a hard target priority. Yeah. Yeah, not but again, it is fragile Yeah So I'm okay with it. That's why I'm okay with it. I think maybe it could be like 270 280 like it doesn't feel off like maybe a tiny point adjustment Tiny but like It's good. Like it does a cool thing. It can issue an order It's fine Like again, it doesn't do any actual damage and you don't want to ever get in a fight and it counts as two models on an objective So like it has a lot of obvious weaknesses, right? um like To be fair, all right, but man, it's it's a scary glass cannon But I like glass cannons. I think glass cannons are cool You know, there's plenty of counterplay that'll just tear this thing off the board Yeah, and it's it's one unit. I mean, I'm thinking about like what this thing used to do It wasn't one unit previously Like I think there's an argument that used to be even better than this I can't remember all the details, but storm of shimtech used to be really used to be three bolts And it would go down as I got wounded and stuff like that. So, okay Yeah, you got three bolts two bolts one bolt So like obviously you could focus those bolts up or split them around and stuff like that So now you have to wait till the middle of the game to kind of get to the same damage point But in the late game you're way stronger. So It's interesting to see people make it work with like three of these things I I have a hard time seeing it, but then I'm often not the best person to be I don't think about spam lists and skew lists obviously has been, you know So like that that's one of my blind spots. It tends to be is yeah I just have zero interest in lists like that even though they're often really strong Sure, I understand. Yeah I understand And the regular celestial icon was like fine a 230 that's I don't know that I take that honestly I think I'd rather have the Wizard because I I actually really like what chain lighting does to add to that ability I mean if I was going to take a second one Maybe like maybe the two pack of the two of them together for 490 Maybe that's a decent decent play like a regular hurricane and then a hurricane on blood of mage. Maybe I'm not sure Uh, I haven't thought of I haven't like I haven't charted out lists yet I will say the one list I am gonna play I shouldn't say I'm not gonna play this army Because I am gonna play the steam tank thing because the steam tank thing is really funny and I have a ton of steam tanks So I guess I will play that but I'm not gonna play any serious version of this army Let me say it that way I'm gonna play the mean version of this army for for giggles in lethess where I turn all my steam tank commanders into priests Because it's it's just hilarious to me. Like we're just walking around chanting Just just maybe maybe I'll make that army just as a fun joke Um do some like religious themed Uh steam tanks Okay, you're you're literally I never never realized how much more You remember travis was on the show last year talking about vault wars travis and you have apparently a lot of similar taste Unless he literally ran they like steam tanks and lethess That's what he loves I like I like silly things ultimately when it comes down to it. Tyler like, you know, we we talk about this You know, I'm trying to evaluate these things for what's bad or good or stuff like that or broken or all those kinds of things But it's almost just like you it's almost never the stuff I actually play right the stuff Actually, I mean you you you you've been to plenty tournaments with me. You know, I was rocking karzai and stuff and In in years where that was not the optimal choice because I think that the big giant dragon was cool Right, I play this stuff. I think it's cool. That's that's what people should play like whatever Uh, uh, battle mark sorry Battle mage on luminar of hi-ish. Um, this guy has fos protection built in automatically, which is cool Um, so this guy gives a six up ward within nine inches And then he still has his searing beam the big laser cannon searing beam Cool, okay It's got too much for you It's all right It's okay It's a big big range beam To ignore his lookout sir again, you just pick a point zap right through there can be a pretty interesting combination But I think I'd probably rather just take their economy I don't think the ultimate differences between 30 and 18 are going to be that meaningful that often Outside of the top of one, but maybe Main thought was what you already mentioned Take this in living city and try to get that that perfect lineup Sure Optimize yeah getting that straight line. That's as much as possible. I mean the old classic. Yep. Yeah classic Shooting down the line It he has a fun spell against horde units. Um, he has like a pretty dease horde breaker. So it's okay Yeah So triple the number of mortal wounds if it's 20 or double if it's d3 and then double if it's 10 or more triple if it's 20 more Yeah, I mean it's it's still only like six mortal wounds to a unit of zombies. So like okay, but it's cool Right, it's dease not good and all right For you command corps we already talked about steel helms. Finally. We're into the just the troops The guys One wound four up save 10 of them for 100 points. They get two attacks each on fours and fours. No rend one damage They can double up effectively all out attack or all out defense Which is neat Like if if you've got multiple units that have all the line you can issue to all of them, which is pretty cool Obviously these guys can actually become quite incredibly tanky if combined with say alchemite Warforgers and an all out defense command and all of that You can get into some save stack and stuff and even though they're on a four base they can still be quite survivable for what they are And uh, they can consecrate an objective and when they do so they also get a six up ward So they have to be contesting a thing alone basically and then end it with that So you can have them save stacked pretty decently with a six up wards. They will be like decently hard to remove They're not as tough as iron breakers, but in a unit of 20. They're pretty good Yeah Yeah, I think they'll definitely see some play particularly in 20s and yeah 20s and 10s could could easily see that Sure Yeah, as you said save stacking and then zanestra five up ward or the six up They'll be pretty solid. They also turn on like a million other things for battle line by the by Um, so like just starting with a unit of these is how most people are going to start because then Then their battle line can can just kind of be whatever they want from there, right as often will happen The free guild cavaliers five for 180 If they charge they add one to the damage and one to the rend They go to three attacks threes threes Minus two two damage these guys at a three up save base. You guys have a great profile 10 inch move right the arch knight has this little special weapon, which is actually really good like at base and run two two damage For the better like champion weapons. I've ever seen on a profile. Now. No that does not get the um The bonus on the charge, right? It's just always what it is, right? Basically. He always has the charge bonus Is is what's happening there Uh plus a bonus attack like he's a champion who just always gets the charge bonus. That's what's happening But Okay, here's my problem with these dudes They're good and we've talked about a lot of ways to buff them and do some cool things I think all of that is true and fine and real Okay, but in the end They are 10 wounds for 180 wounds Uh three up save. I'm trying to think of some bases of comparison I mean, well the other easy comparisons for these guys are chaos knights and blood knights Yeah, two both of them are a little more expensive Right, how much are blood knights right now? Do you know a 220 on chaos knights right now? But chaos knights are 15 wins not 10 wins correct and blood knights are as well I think blood knights are like two 20 to 30 something like that somewhere in that space. I don't remember Pulled out those we're talking here just for reference, but Yeah, so you just think what do you think they should be? I Maybe down a little bit. Yeah down 20 is probably where I was gonna be. I mean, they're like probably 160 point unit You're 30 for blood knights Which yeah, I know there's some feelings that make blood knights slightly are slightly too expensive Yeah, that's that's been the general principle right and that like actually that army's a bit out of whack on that regard Yeah Yeah, I mean, that's my issue 10 wounds for 180 points on like Yeah, they have a decent save, but they're still gonna die like if you've ever played chaos knights You know how easy it is to lift chaos knights off the board. Okay Like chaos knights die Right They die A lot And so like that's the challenge Yeah, uh, I'm not necessarily convinced that they're overpriced, but I there's a fair argument that they could be a little bit overpriced But I don't think it's much I agreed and that like they're fine. They're good again. I don't want people to misunderstand me here, right They are a good unit. They have a lot of synergies. I think they can absolutely wreck face But they will often fall into the hit once and then die Okay thing. Yeah, but like the They are eminently counter-chargeable and liftable Yes, yes. Yeah, and if they get flat footed, they're in trouble it is some less like two free guild guard free guild cav marshals and Two units of these things maybe unit of 10 Right, and you're just leaning into trying to get like quadruple activations before your opponent does anything And and maybe leaning into the counter-charge, you know, like early shooting And that's the key combining them with the the champion combining them with the the counter-charge like using them In the right way is that I think is actually A critical skill test for this army. This is the kind of place I like to see skill tests in armies Not in interpreting and understanding and playing the secret order game. Okay This kind of stuff having a unit with a very clearly defined role That it can actually excel quite well at that role like these guys can do real good damage If if used optimally right That's a good skill test unit in army because then you have to hold the piece Set up the piece use the piece Right. And so like you can Get and I agree Devon you can get well more than 180 points out of them if used correctly if used poorly They will die very badly and accomplish nothing Right. They are a they will absolutely operate at like two dark ends of a spectrum very often, right I'm just like punching way above their weight or just getting wiped and doing nothing And By someone who's run a lot of chaos nights in their day, right? And that's a lot more wounds for for near the same points Yeah Okay, so there we go Free guild fusiliers. Well, we had to get to here. Okay The thing that most people will be spamming at the beginning Uh, so this unit has their little fusel cannon if they're in a fortified position They make two attacks on force force neg one one damage You get 10 of them for 150 points. So you're getting 22 attacks out of the unit if they're in a fortified position because the champion gets two extra attacks That right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah weird, but okay. Yeah, sure like you're gonna take that not the razor pistols don't get out here um and Like they have to be in their fortified position to use the the fortified position Thing which you want to very much do Um, which is why the movement thing is going to be so essential for them Like you have to if they need to move you got to have somebody near them with an order obviously Right, and if these things live into round three you immediately go send for the resupply run and then Whoa boy Uh Whole jeds a millionaire because good lord. Um, you actually get re-roll hits Re-roll hits that's a rule. I have not thought about for quite an age I know That's where my mind went. Yep Uh, it's very easy to get these guys in all the ways we've talked about onto You know 10 of them making 22 attacks on threes and threes Or 10 or 20 or 30 or you know a unit whatever On to threes and threes neg one one damage and if you really want doing sixes on mortal wounds too so If you want to think about like sort of what your optimal position is Let's put 30 of these guys together Okay with an alchemyte war forger general standing behind them Right Who is who has taken the let's go weapons free command trade? yep, uh and And then has used the who has used the stoke and then put the spell up And so now you are making uh 62 attacks Out of this unit in a fortified position right And you're going to roll on threes and threes you'll pick up everything that you'll get 10 mortal wounds on the initial roll Uh And then you'll re-roll everything that's not a six because it's not re-roll failed hits. It's just re-roll hits So you'll re-roll 52 dice and you'll get another let's just call it Let's call it nine Okay And You'll hit with Uh, what 30 of those all right roughly about 30 something let's say let's say 33 You'll wound with 22 So you'll resolve 22 wounds at rend one ish. I'm like, I'm just doing this mouth off the top of my head But somewhere in that space And 19 mortal wounds on top of that Seems pretty good, man And that cost you 540 points And you're doing that at a range of 27 inches because of course you also have the scope with an effective threat range of uh So an effective 35 inch threat range with the move Uh, let's see 27 32 and then plus three. Yeah 30. Did you say 35? Yeah 35 And if you get if you get some extras extra prayer plus two at 37 so Correct. And yes, that is only in round three or later. Yes, that has to be at least round three Because I was factoring in the ripple hits Oh, gotcha. Yeah. Yeah That powerful unit. Yep. Yes with move eight. Yeah, it's exactly what's calculating So you got a you got a 35 inch threat range unit that can put out In round three 19 mortals and 22 wounds on rend one And then in round one and two at the same threat range can put out uh 10 mortals and like That is more than that. I didn't give enough actual hits because I discount those initial 10 I'm sorry. It's like 30. Yeah, sorry 30 wounds at rend one And then 10 mortals and 30 wounds and 19 mortals. Basically, that's what happens or something like that It's a lot. Yeah I'm I I would need to actually calc in the math. I'll I'll try to do it But I'm like doing this all the all the top of my head, but it's a lot So these guys embody right thence of one of the main concerns with this book with this army When you combine the synergistic elements with this unit as the crux of everything You quickly realize That it's a catch 22 trying to deal with a unit like this I think with a well set up list and with a well-executed game plan with you know, a skilled person, right? Sure. Sure. They're going You are disincentivized to shoot at it You are and arguably disincentivized to charge it You're going to potentially be facing counter charges That can be difficult to set up at times It's going to be even more powerful laid into the game Just a number of these layers. Yeah, that this core scroll is at the center of that could really make this army a nightmare It reminds me like I said a while back, man. It reminds me so much of teclas and the sentinels Yep In a way that these I see these pieces functioning, but also now adding in counter charging with With the commands and counter charging that could fight first With multiple activations and the freakle marshal and the cavaliers and there's probably things that I haven't even thought about yet That could potentially go off So, yeah, it's uh, it very well could be a quite a problem at this current point value All right. Were you ready for the stats tyler? I was running the stats while you were talking Here we go everybody. Here's the stats Let's talk about average damage This unit uh in battle round three on like in battle round three if you do the resupply run, right? So when you do the resupply run Against a two up save this unit has an average damage of 26 Against a four up save it is 38 A five up save it's 44 and a six up save it's 50 That's actual that's damage after resolution after saves after everything Right So against your average unit in the game in round three a unit of 30 of these Will do an average of basically 40 damage To a four up save unit So, you know That's pretty good Right, dude, like we we have already been here in this game over far too long with teclis and the sentinels Now if we've been off the re-roll heads if we just talk you say in vents, but that's the optimal scenario You only get to do the resupply run once these guys are fine Sure, let's calc them out Just with the the every every other round. Okay, so no re-roll heads Then they only do a poultry tyler a poultry 30 damage To a four up save unit Nothing basically zero 30 damage basically nothing Sure, it's fine It's fine So, yeah, um, they're pretty good Yeah And keep in mind they can you know be returning fire and firing off turn like I don't I don't know how you shoot at anything near these guys You just don't That's that that's what as you were doing that that's what I was saying Obviously you were running the numbers, but that's what I was trying to lay out, right? We have already I keep emphasizing tech list in the sentinels because that's at least in my mind is the comp to The combination of elements that we're looking at here with the obvious list design But now with counter charging Counter charging that can potentially fight first with multiple units and hit you really hard Like then, you know, if I'm a slaves of darkness knights of the empty throne Oh baron guard 10 nights, and I'm just trying to run into this and smash it I'm going to get counter charged. I'm going to potentially get I'm going to get unleash held You know, they're gonna have multiple layers of screens. Oh sure Right, like It's just something like this. I don't know I'd have to see it, but I would fear that it the the combination of variables just says This is already the pattern. We've seen this pattern before We're just we're now just going to see it again, and it's a horror rip It's a terrible way to play the game like sure tech This in the sentinels was such a In a boring play experience because it's monotonous. It's one or zero Yes, or no a lot of the times against a list like that Yeah, I mean and tyler just let's just keep going with the status for a moment Let's say but venture being unfair only one unit gets the plus one to hit and wound Good point tyler. Okay. So let's get let's let's get let's say for the other unit of 30 You're tell you're rocking two units of 30 now, right? Okay You know so so that's there. Yeah, you got the two units of 30 So in this case they go to 24 damage So your primary unit you get 30 out of the secondary unit you get 24 out of Against the four I'm safe Yeah Yeah, pretty good I obviously we're going to see a unit of 30 and a ton of the list I'll be interested to see if we see 60 to start out or even 50 to start out. Maybe sure But I mean third the again, it's just 30 sentinels 15 bows Yeah, six is to hit mortals at 27 inches. We've been on this road. It's terrible. And by the way, yes, these guys as devins, right? These guys are also ethereal against shooting weapons Right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying It can't shoot. Yeah, even if you could even if you're not worried about getting counter shot Not that they should ever be shot by missile weapons ever Exactly. You're not going to do anything to them in the first place. Yeah on a four up and a five up Can you fit two units of 30 on the 12 inch bubble? Yeah. Oh, yeah easily Easily it'll be a that is so much space Brought new it's like so much space. It is wild the actual area of how that works out Yes, you could fit four units of 30 and a 12 inch bubble I mean, you're not going to need to what you could mathematically It'll be a three up save and a five up forward because you're you're able to benefit from all that defense with My position, right? It just ignore negative modifiers. You can benefit from positive. Yeah, but you're using all that attack So I mean sure it depends. I guess what phase. Yeah, you're right It's you're right different phase different thing. I mean blah blah blah. Yeah. Yeah But yeah Yes, you have super ethereal, correct. You could still get bonuses Yeah, you just can't so yeah Can the resupply action be canceled or stopped? No, it is just a thing that the player gets to choose to do There is no interaction for it And in that round god help you if you're still alive and anywhere near these things May god have mercy on your soul because the freehealed fusiliers will not Okay So, yes, this is the primary problem point with the book as well as potentially some one clearly undercosted Potentially two undercosted buff pieces insinestra and war forger Yeah Yep Pusal major on ogre warholk eight wounds three up. This is a hero guy He's also a cast of light um, he's a crack shot If his long fusili gets three attacks three three snag one D3 if he rolls a six to hit He's attempted a crack shot If you do so the attack sequence ends after all this unit's attacks have been resolved You can roll a dice for each crack shot it attempted for each roll that is at least double the target's wound characteristic Pick one model from the unit to be slain It's fun. It's a neat thing you can do So you can kill specific models Uh, normally we have to be in melee to get this kind of ability To get the kill the champion banner bearer You know type of thing That's fun. It's very fun. I but it's fun. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's like it's too random. Yeah, not shocker It's not a thing you bounce bang on but I cool neat It's just it's just neat Starting your shooting phase you can pick one friendly cast light unit Holy within 12 of this unit and roll a dice till the end of that this phase the range characteristic of that unit's miss a weapons Is increased by a number of inches equal to the roll Same unit cannot be affected by this everybody more than once in the same phase It's fine. You know d6 inches onto the fusiliers weapons just in case the 27 inch 35 inch threat range wasn't enough Let's get all the way up to 41. Just make sure you can ever hide Yeah, exactly, but it's fine Uh, and then also in the fortified position This was the first war scroll that I came across just going through the book in order that I was very disappointed in And it or at least on the other ends I mean a little disappointed in the fusiliers with what all you can do at that price point But yeah, there's not a lot at least competitively not a lot of reason. I love the look at this unit the idea of it Amazing eight wounds through save cool Yeah, the shooting is off the melee feels it's it's just off with that price and especially the special rules are off I I don't see this getting much play except in fun list or whatever list Yeah, I mean it's it's not doing anything He's like he does some okay shooting damage is what happens, right? It's fine Yeah, you just and then and then like add some more range, but at this point like I don't know how far we need to go here I'm I agree. Um frog arm said when this was spoiled. It made me think cities was getting ogre units I was so disappointed when I found out they were not I agree. Where's the actual like ogre? Like unit Like some some mercenary ogres. Yeah, it's like come on Do we got this one guy? Does that have any friends poor dude? Poor poor this poor ogre has to hang out in this city this racist city Uh, it's really unfortunate. He doesn't actually get the ogre keyword though, which is very funny Hmm Okay That was a big miss for me that war school. Yeah, it's fine Iron world grade cannon also cast a light 150 points eight wounds four up save it's got its big cannonball We had covered its shooting attack before You can do the cannonball the arm of piercing shell you can get the big rend for for d but wild d6 swing Or you can get the four up to uh, you know two rend but d3 plus two more reliable damage Um, and that's what that's what this thing does It's it has that and then it can grape shot when you get close You taking a great can on the list you taking one can in there tyler Yeah No, I mean no they not at that price. They of course have historically struggled with these kinds of worst goals, right? Uh, this has been you know for a long time. They struggled with monsters. They got better with monsters They still often struggle with the artillery pieces Uh, to me this one qualifies. I'm not sure what all exactly needs to be changed. I mean, it's one of those high risk Moderate reward. I wouldn't necessarily say high reward, especially with the d6 shots Yeah, it just doesn't get there at that price point. It's too high risk and obviously, you know much. I I hate risk Sure So, yeah, what about you? No, I mean Model is incredibly good. Like my god. This is a gorgeous model My issue with it is it's ultimately 150 points for two shots on forest twosnake to Plus two that's it. I mean, I'd rather have 10 more few sliers Exactly. Yeah. That's the problem. Yeah, we've we've been we've been playing the song for years and years and years of You're not interested in rolling two dice that are at best on threes and twos Yeah Yeah, not not at that price point. So yeah, it's it's unfortunate But that being said like it's cool like it's a cool thing Um, I mean, I the one excuse where I think you might see it is if people do use the battalion that's in here because there's a unified battalion that includes one of these things Yeah, maybe great water fastness. It's a little more interesting Because you get you get the triple all out attack So he can go on to threes and twos while your fusilliers are still getting threes and twos as well Right, right get fusilliers up or sorry your threes and threes. Sorry. Uh, yeah Either it's get the butt pieces up and or get the fusilliers up But this should not be equivalent in point cost of fusilliers as no I mean you think like well, but it's got the rend four that helps you punch through and it's like I just talked about how these guys put out like 10 mortal wounds Right with 10 and 20 mortal wounds. I I'm punching through armor. Just fine Yeah, I mean obviously you have to cast the spell, but that's why you we've been emphasizing how a heart Sure act like the Italian Like this is this is the build this is the build like this I'm just convinced that the build we're gonna see is hallow heart Warforgers behind fusilliers They're just like go ham. So you just like auto cast your spell Put up the big bubble put up the save bonus Have the five up ward in the middle of the thing and just like All guns weapon free castle build move out your castle through the movement spell Right because that the movement order is a an aoe order, right? And you just like march your fortified position forward march your castle forward and just like I'm just blasting. So anyways, I started blasting, right? Okay Steam tank commander finally we've come to the true hero Number one first. Let's start here g w your cowards your cowards This should be a one up save It just should you cowards This is better than a three up, but you're still cowards Okay, so Uh steam tank commander 12 wounds two up save eight inch move not random anymore. Now it just moves Um, you can give him the old more pressure If you do so you need to give power to the wheels, which I'll never do Or you give power to the guns, which you will often do Uh, wherein if you Add power to the guns because the power of the wheels doesn't let you move farther I mean, you can I guess it does you can run and shoot. So like that's cool. That's that is something But like whatever it's fine. I'm using the the the I'm using the guns 270 points for this dude Uh, he does do impact hit mortal wounds and stuff like that with his steel behemoth But he's only two up save and the cannon which normally has one shots now goes two shots on fours and twos And then three d six shots on threes and threes no rend one damage and then the long rifle and the handgun Which he gets both now So that's cool. He gets both the the long rifle and the repeater handgun, which is fun just some more shots on there And he can issue the same command Up to two times in the same phase If it does so each command must be received By a friendly steam tank no command point It spent the second time that issues this command the correct way to do it This guy is actually the one who works super well With the plus one to hit and wound all out attack thing because he can be the general and then he can Double issue to both himself and another steam tank putting your uh steam gun and your repeater handgun On twos and twos So You give both of them more you you give both them more pressure go power the guns And now your two tanks are on twos and twos for all of their numbers Yeah, which is cool. Yeah. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. I like that, right? Yeah So because yes, because this guy actually can be the general and can himself double issue so neat That yeah 270 is pretty steep 270 is pretty steep 230 is pretty steep for the normal one Once again, we're too expensive for a 12 wound model with no mortal wound protection whatsoever Yeah But you know, there's ways you can do that you can get little mortal wound protection I guess I don't know like if I ran this army I'd probably have a luminar floating in the middle of my tanks just to give the old six up ward or something I don't know but um But it's fun. This thing's a lot of fun I like this thing a lot I do like that you have the option to go to the run and charge if you want to Or run and shoot if you need to like that is a cool thing Um Yeah, and you know to up save is to up save. It's a really good save, right? So if they don't have a lot of mortal wounds, this guy's actually pretty hard to to get rid of so Obviously my main thought was a pinning piece at least thinking about it competitively Like it still seems a little rich with the idea of slotting in 230 for a pinning piece Yeah, with the oh, I guess they're running is running charge just on Oh, this unit can run and still okay. Yeah, so the regular steam tank you could shoot and or charge and yes, they can both do that So you could pop plus three on your Order potential. Well, maybe you're not going to be hopefully being range of a hero So now you have to 11. I mean he's a hero. He gets orders Oh, I'm thinking of the regular one. Just the cheaper version. Oh, got it. Okay, sure Or the four wins version. Uh, yeah, just like more or less what I'm saying right is how how high up in mobility Can you get to then do the pinplay with false protection up on this with your tube ignoring runs? Yep, and and there you go Yeah, and importantly the lumen arc is the one carrying around false protection as well Right, so that's why I said like not only to give you the six up ward But then you know you can give one of these guys like an ethereal two up with a six up ward That actually makes them pretty pretty survivable beast Yeah, again, you got to build to it You could have you could have the pond effects in there You know you could have other things messing around in the space Um But yeah, it's cool. Um, you could have a dumb war forge We're running around in the middle giving a plus one to save to all these idiots So like there's there's probably a decent version of heavy steam tanks, but I'm using the not good version Uh, so there we go. It's just like a lot of commanders and crazy things like that Sure, but I think they're I think they're okay. It's it's still more of a meme But they're not a bad piece like the actual legitimate use for this thing It's probably as a shoot forward pinning piece. Yes Okay Good god, we have so much more to go. All right. We're gonna move it faster. Yeah, that's good, buddy It is so late and yet we still are going. Oh my god, I just realized what time it was Okay Great here we go will the corpse hunters? Uh These guys are really good and you will often see them because they get a pregame move That's it and they can't be targeted or they're not visible at all while they're in cover Or well, it's more than 12 inches away from enemy units So and they and their battle line if you for each one battle line for each steel helm Great unit nice big unit of 11 dudes. You can move out there. They actually have some decent shooting attacks themselves. I would point out But like these guys are really good to screen That's it. They're they're just a pregame move screen That can't be easily shot off because the problem with pregame move screens is when somebody just shoots them off Yeah And these guys can say no Because if you can move them forward and put them on to cover they can screen out the enemy and then not be shot at all Mm-hmm Interesting unit. Yeah, I wonder if 140 is the right price. Maybe slightly high It's a nice unit though. Yeah, I mean the unit itself makes uh, what is it seven 14 attacks on fours and fours or no, sorry 12 attacks on fours and fours neg one one damage and two attacks on threes and threes neg two d three damage Because obviously the dogs don't have guns and there's four dogs in the unit so What's two two shots each on the crossbows? Yeah, you got six normal guys Oh, I see you got one warden Who has the the air our blest and you've got four doggie doggos the dogs don't carry guns Sadly the technology in the mortal realms is not the point where we're giving dogs guns just yet It's an opportunity. All right. We'll work on that But I think these guys are good like they're they're good I think you'll see them often in a lot of lists, especially castle lists because it'll help you protect your castle It's just more castle protection It gums up the enemy movement stops them from taking stuff to like allows you to claim early points yada yada yada yada Everything pregame moves always have been good always will be good a pregame move on a unit that's then invisible And can't be shot off even better and Haskell hexbane skip he's 180 for hexbane's hunters. Anybody want to defend these guys? Nope cool next All right. Galen van densten derally van denst Do you now take them as the pair? They're 160 They do what they basically did before with deralia having that Crossbow that just levels enemy wizards and demons, but you do have to take both of them And at 160 points, I'm not sure they're making my castle build Sure. No. Yeah. Yeah, but I do think they're in the range for a fun play Sure. Oh, absolutely. I mean she is a straight killer. Let's not mess around. Okay The fact that he's doubling damage now as well and you know, he can get up there and do some work against wizards and demons. Yeah, yep Okay Uh, all right So good stuff Oops, and then we're into the dwarves Okay, so we'll give these the same amount of attention that gw did not much So, uh, the warden king six wounds on a three up save for 110 points If he's picked to be your general You can pick one enemy unit to bear a grudge against until the end of the battle at the unmodified hit roll for an attack Made with a melee weapon by a friendly duridan unit the target set enemy unit is a six The attack automatically wounds the target. That's a very potent ability If you've played night haunt, this is a It's a very powerful ability So that's cool Um, and then he pulls he's he's got the pull Dwarf units into combat with him mm-hmm Yeah, I was thinking about that on the Hemmers minus two brand two damage And wretch bearer there. Yeah hitting on threes and wing on threes. So yeah twos get a bunch of bunch through only one inch Reach those we'll get into with the hemmers, but yeah, not not bad Yeah, and he can like he can pull the always strikes first trick if a hero gets near him Right or if he charges into a hero, he can pull the always strikes first trick and then pull his unit in with them Like I think this dude's got some play. I don't think the warden king is bad by any stretch of the imagination The grudge is a super strong rule Um, and like he can he can asf people right into into combat, which is cool Yeah, if you go back and write people just add up the elements that are at least there You can get some notable builds. Yeah, even if it's just like a power pair Like you've got your human force and then you want to have a dwarf power pair like the dwarven ensemble I think that's very doable I honestly think like I think there's probably a very fun build where you've got like a human core And then like maybe a dwarf power pair and an elf power pair that are kind of built to specific purpose And I think that's a really interesting sort of combined arms army like you like tyler, right? Right, I really do think there is probably some play there Um, cool. That's the vibe that I was getting as well. Yeah. Yep The rune lord at a hundred points You know he still has his his rend spell It's on an answer value of a one or sorry. I have a fork the little He picks a unit only within range visible change on the starting next hero phase improve the rend characteristic of that unit's melee Weapons by one Oh rune lord, how you fallen no more bonus to unbind He just gets to do one spell. He's a basic priest and now his rend buff is only on melee weapons That's on a four with and it's on a four We know way to buff it Follow the line going down the stonks on this guy Yeah, not great Okay Long beards 10 for 130 Uh one wound and a four up save They have a little four up you don't run away from them if you give them their shields they go to a three up save and they Uh, but then they don't have the neg two rend their special thing is you give them the big great axes they can go to neg two rend right, right Not not bad, but there's another war scroll we're going to quickly get into that is better than these guys Yep, I don't you're not they they lost their grudging. They're grumbling. Sorry. They can't grumble anymore Which was the only reason anybody ever took them to begin with so next Hammers 10 for 150 which is a lot Uh, but they do make two attacks on threes threes neg two rend two damage Start the first battle round before determining who has the first turn you can pick one friendly warden king on the battlefield Uh, and if you do so the this uh, that warden king has a ward of four plus Well, as are then three inches of this unit quite an interesting turn. They don't bodyguard them. They just give him a ward So, okay Yeah, that's kind of weird. Yep So that's fine. I mean they hit really hard, but they do have a little inch reach But they hit really hard Oh wait, they're on 25s, aren't they they are on 25s. Yeah That's good. Okay. So yeah, you could you could reinforce this and and have a fair amount in Uh, yeah, it's it's not too bad. Maybe maybe a little overcasted, but yeah, I could I could see some play with these guys As your power pair with a with a warden king hitting some of those synergistic buffs that you can get with the army Yeah, I mean they give that like I think this is one of those potential like pulling units Like I think you're making a decision Which we'll talk about when we get to the next unit because I don't really bring them pick snap the picture in But these guys hit like a truck Okay, like yeah, let's take 20 of these dudes. Right They're all gonna get to fight because they're on 25s Yeah Yep Now There is a thing missing here. Did you notice what's missing here with hammers? And it's a really big deal Oh What's missing no champion and no elite. Oh lord. That's weird Yeah, maybe the unit doesn't have a champion model. That's why they did that I know it most certainly does Okay, that's strange Uh That's like they uh, yeah now that you pointed out This is a very weird board presumably standard and musician with the kit. Yeah, it has everything in it. Yeah It has a command group Strange, okay So, yeah Um at any rate, here we are Yeah, so stay stay near the kings because he's the one issuing you orders, right? But yeah, like, you know, you got 40 of these dudes They're gonna hit on you know, there's 30 ish attacks wound on 22 ish attacks and to rend to damage too Like it's a it's a hell of a punch. It really is. Um Interesting unit on the counter charge as well Absolutely Yeah Uh, that's why I like I like the pile driver gauntlets. I think it was called sure so they can strike last cause the strike last effect And it's just right. It's just from a wrist standpoint It's it just gives your opponent something it asks a question of your opponent gives them pause, right? It's like going against against a tree lord. Am I gonna risk getting hit by that tree lord and something else before I even get To hit it The three up. Yeah, it's one of those things that And so I really like that the lack of command models though No, they don't have the plus one in charge like longbeards and airbreakers have they don't have the Brewery, they don't have the ability to issue orders themselves. That is a real bad limitation Like if you've ever played in the in armies where you have things that don't have that ability God, do you feel it now because it's so rare, but man does it suck So Yep Uh, and then iron drakes are shooters He's a shooter Uh, just not going to be taken as much anymore like let's be fair with what's happened here Uh 10 for 161 battle line per iron breakers They can still get their plus one to their tax characteristics. Uh, if they didn't make a move or Have been set up in the same turn. We fixed it folks. There it is. Okay. We fixed it No more bridging Whatever and so yeah, I mean now they just literally have to stand still if they want to blaze away And you know 15 inch range threes threes neg one one They can't get the rend above anymore from the rune priest Dead in the water Larious there are 10 points more expensive than fusiliers with all the nonsense that fusiliers can do This is a comical comparison Okay Like is this a joke are these guys a joke to you like they're so bad comparatively it's just Yeah, exactly. Hey, whoa said yet ease all beast riders. Yeah, exactly like so he He knows the pain of having non elite models with no command unit Like Yeah, no. Oh, yeah, that's right. Thank you. I also forgot they can't get the grumble anymore because like it was the whole pack It was 30 of these guys getting bridged with the plus one to rend with the re-roll once to wound from the grumble Uh, yeah, it's just like all that crap and it's all gone All of those buffs are gone Yeah, exactly firm hand shakes all around Now they'll never be taken again great work. Yeah, I mean I'm gonna say this tyler. You ready? Yeah, they're trash Yeah, the This is an example of the pattern that gets a lot of people frustrated and gets me frustrated at times about the studio's design choices Right, it's like, okay. So yeah, this was Like a problem at one point in the past. So we're going to kill it sort of now Sort of right like yeah, there were worse things but and and now we're going to potentially create a new problem that repeats The pattern the mistake that we've repeated multiple times before And now they're called fusiliers. Uh, it's like Yeah, I'm winging about these guys are trash. Easy enough like it's fine Uh, they're they're super trash and and I don't disagree with Devin. He said I don't even know if I take him in 100 points And I'm honestly, I think I probably agree with that I'm not even sure they're a hundred point unit honestly Maybe Iron breakers though. This is a bit of a bright spot. This is a bit of a bright spot The dwarves, like I said, I think there's I think hammers are interesting. I think the warden king is interesting I think iron breakers are interesting. I think the rest of stuff can go take a long walk off a short pier because it's all garbage I rose rune lord long beards and Iron drakes can all take a hike. Okay Iron breakers one wound three up safe uh, they make two attacks on threes and fours no run one damage And They do get the little horn blower for the plus one to run and charge which is cool Uh, and they get their little bomb thing. Okay, that's fine But importantly if this unit is picked for the form shield wall order It has a ward of four up until the end of the phase instead of a five up Okay Okay, so this is the question Are you trying to just like pin a unit completely into place in which case you you know The warden king can bring these guys in they can fight. They're not going to really do any damage right, but like The he can also pull them out of their strike last right Because he can make them just immediately fight and Not that they do any damage, but like they can they can activate which is cool It's still some damage right and then they just sit there and pin and they're three up four up like crazy crazy good And then these guys could also have to prayer and be neg one to be wounded and You know, so that's that's really cool Give me a little bit of phoenix guards. I mean they don't hit as well as phoenix guard, but No, they don't have the rendio Yeah, I mean three up four up is like a really good profile okay Like all defense on top or the neg one to wound prayer or blah blah blah blah blah blah, right? I don't think they're going to be in the Typical castle build that we're going to see Because that's just going to lean into humans, right? Warforgers are not giving them the stacking the safe stacking. They're giving that to humans So that's why you're going to have steel so steel helms as your outer walls But still yeah, I think in a mixed force a they have play I don't know I honestly think you could see like the warden king and a pack of ten of these guys is only 240 Okay, they are also on 25 mil bases Oh, yeah, so like so you can you can single file line them out Oh, yeah, I didn't do that. That's a good point. Yeah With like the warden king basically on the edge or behind or something like that, right? He can reach over the top. Either way, it doesn't really matter And like having them as the front door of your castle Yeah Is actually like an interesting play having them as a potential countercharger to just pin a unit in place is an interesting play Um, like there's there is play here Um, so I I this is the this is kind of the power pair. I was thinking about All right Ruth of Oath and steel on a three up you can make the minus one to wounds helping with their durability even more Or yeah, even rune of wrath and rune or you know with part of the counter charging trick. Yeah, I would Yeah, I really like the yeah warden kink power prayer that you're talking about. I yeah I was thinking about it. It's been surely put in that castle I just thought maybe the steel homes would still win out but it's fair point I don't think I'm guessing steel homes are 32s. They're not 25s. Uh, I think they're actually 28 I I think so. I don't I need to look I I will I have not assembled those models yet. They're sitting on the floor behind me There's something else took priority tyler over the city stuff Uh, okay, but yeah, they're good like these guys are good. I think you'll see them in some armies Which is cool. I'm glad the dwarves didn't get completely relegated to like the sidelines I think there is play within the dwarf section of the book 100% clogged smith heart pass pass There's there's I don't think there's anything I've no to say about this guy cool gyro copters and gyro bombers uh Like I like these guys before I still like them now. I still think they're fun Um If you take you can take them in a unit now they can be a they're they're too expensive Let me just state that they're like they're too expensive where they are they need to come down At four wounds and five wounds I like their little ability to like run over the top and and mortal wound people But they lost their good steam gun that was just like make a ton of shots against a big unit Now it's just you know 2d6 shots Like on this new frame 80 and 240 is a joke 120 is a joke That's the bottom line and by the way the gyro copters also lost four inches of move. They used to be 16 Oh, wow So like if you move these guys down to where they should be like there's a world where this is a compelling unit That can just like float around and be interesting screwing around with objectives and stuff if they were like 60 points a piece or 50 points a piece, which is what they should be For a four one model that basically does nothing A little hero sats and yeah, just like little shooters that float around I always had gyro copters under the old points at like 70 under with their old abilities in my tempest eye army and they always Um They always did well like they were almost always MVP for interesting things But again, that was at like 16 inch move and when they had their good steam gun So it's a bit of a cost there But I like the the fly over top of people and mortal wound them So could have a battle tactic surround and destroy And then I think that means multiple models add up to but yeah, I agree this little little expensive a good frame They are a good little frame. They are a little expensive if they came down to 60 I think you'd see one or two of them in a lot of lists for again for surrounded destroy and things like that Yeah, which is which would be fair. I just think they're like slightly too high Um, so it's cool the bomber not too much for it to get one extra wound and they'd be able to do more mortal wounds You're just you're just you want the little skirmishy harrowing unit. You're not taking the bomber All right, let's get into the elves the sorceress on black dragon 14 wounds and a five up save it's got the noxious breath and stuff Um And so it makes a bunch of attacks doesn't do mortal wounds. It's fine. Whatever Um Why why would their noxious breath do more to wounds? It's just it's just a black dragon. It's fine Uh unit can issue the same command up to two times the same phase if it does So each command must be received by a friendly darkling covens unit No command point is spent the second time this unit. It does this which is cool And then they have uh Excuse me. I'm so sorry. They have blade storm which favors killing low save units Uh, so it's bad She's bad Yes, uh, agreed Moving on. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, like she's bad. She's been bad forever. She's still bad. Why are we still doing this? Why can't we get a decent caster on a dragon? It's the most amazing concept Like cool wizard lady It's like frasetta art or brahmar, right like wizard lady elf wizard lady in a bikini riding a dragon And it sucks every time it comes out. I do not understand why we can't get this right. It's so shocking. All right next Regular sorceress. Hey, she does have boots. Why did I just flip forward and look duh, but I assume there's an anklet hidden under there um And she still can do her stab people to get plus two to cast which is super cool She can get the anklet for plus six inches to do the shard thing. She's a hundred points. So she's good It's that easy It's that easy. Yep. I've been good for a long time. It's not good Yep like Anything that can get plus two to cast at the cost of one model right Uh, and then, you know have the plus six inch cast put it put a thing put a thing on a unit We'll talk about here in a little while that uh makes it a that makes suddenly them treat all enemies as rent as save nothing Sure Yeah, give it six inch extra range for 15 inch range. Yeah, not bad pretty good Black guard uh one wound four up save 10 for 140 their battle line if you have a darkling coven's general Two attacks each three threes neg one one This unit has a four up ward while it's within three inches of any friendly sorceress units Which is Wild in addition friendly sorceress units have a ward of four up. Well, they're within three inches of any units with this ability Sorcerer designers note. This does not include sorcerers on black dragons units Just in case you thought it might accidentally be playable Continue to jettison that thought from your mind No, only the good one is good and the bad one is bad. They forget about it I don't know anything So funny um, these guys are reasonable targets by the way for the The spell for the snever's blades at two attacks each with a range of two inches Like the fact that they're four up four up When they're around her Is pretty deice, right? They can get in there. They can chop some stuff up and then they don't die very easily on the punch back So Yeah, pretty good. I like black art. I like the like obvious power pair is obvious and not bad Again, so like I think this is another interesting one that you can include in there because again It's not too expensive. Like I would probably build this as a 380 point power pair with uh, 20 black art and her right And just like they're there to be off in a different place away from my human bubble that i'm trying to build and they can operate like they're relatively Tough because of the fact that they're running around with their own four up board right and uh Benefiting from whatever city I happen to be in she could still she can still get the hallow heart bonus and so on and so forth And then be casting like a mad fool for to nail that spell automatically And they just work around on a different side and like go in and chop somebody the heck off off of an objective right I was giving the black the phoenix card shout out a while back. These guys are the new phoenix guard I mean, they were always meant to be evil phoenix guard now. Finally, they've ascended to their true role Um, we jettisoned phoenix card from the book and made black card phoenix card So we know where all the phoenix card went. They like they they went out there spray painted the armor black and they're like, all right Let's go boys. Let's do this Witness to destiny no more. Okay Um Bleak swords the Cheapest way if you want to get at the chop something in half at because it's 10 for 100 built-in battle line If the unmodified hit roll from attack with our sword is six It scores two hits you make a wound and save roll for each So they can spit out a lot of attacks if you're just trying to get the most bargain basement chops into people Uh with no save like with the tenebrous blades. This is a pretty decent way to go about it But ultimately I don't like these guys I would just take the black art Yeah And then a unit of 10 just to get killed get stabbed for the blood sacrifice Sure, sure if you want to have like 10 of these idiots following her around to just be like sacrifices sure Yeah Uh executioners, you know, they're still what they are their neg one rend damage two Um, and if they roll that you know when modified hit roll of six They do two mortal wounds and they attack sequence ends 10 for 170. They're overcosted Yeah, this seems too high. I mean, yeah, that's good explosion potential with lots of sixes But they're not on a great survivable frame One wound for up save 10 10 wounds way too fragile for that points, boss Yeah Okay, yeah All right dark shards no Yeah, they got kicked in the in another there. Yeah It's pretty rough Dread spears, I guess another bargain basement way to get a bunch of things if you want or to far a cheap thing to follow around for the sacrifice Mm-hmm pass pass Dreadlord on black dragon. We did talk earlier about a couple of actual interesting Ways that you can play with this guy. Um, I think this dude can have some okay play My problem is he's still 14 wounds on four up save But he's okay Postman damage postman rend Yeah, he's got his breath and yeah, he can re-roll Order serpentis units Yeah, nah Yeah, again that we as we talked about earlier There is some interesting play with him with some of the items like if you're if you're a dark elf fan You'll take this guy and you can probably if you pick your battles very carefully He can have some use but he has 280 points Which is like 60 points too many for what this guy's doing. He should be like 220 For for his for his like stack of weapons that he has mr. Rend won over here No way Yeah, dead lord on bad dragon is not wrong like if he was 220 to 10 I okay Yeah, maybe the unparalleled duelist command trade. Exactly. Yeah that kind of stuff War hydra Okay I uh, so he has a little fiery breath It makes attacks it makes a lot of them more models in the thing more he gets up to a max of 10 And at the end of the combat phase he heals up to five wounds For 180 points and he's a little monster uh four some threes minus one three damage to Uh Probably a little high, but the five wounds heal is interesting Uh pass hard pass so hard pass on this guy. Well, you'll see why in a minute. There is no world where you take this guy Yeah Like I'm sorry. We're still garbage He just is pass Uh drake spawn chariots 90 points or 270 Makes a lot of shooting attacks and does stuff um Yeah, I didn't like this one as much as the scourge runners. Agreed the scourge runners are where I'm at I'm living I'm living that scourge runner lifestyle um The What's that? There's one nights are pretty good Yeah, they're fine Um, they have the built-in plus one to run in charge, which I like they have the three up save base, which I like Um, they are 140 points. They do go battle line if you have an order serpentis general Um, which is fun. Um And like so I guess that means uh This guy so um These guys 40 points cheaper the wind profile is one tick worse The but the mounts are a little bit better Uh, yeah, maybe these guys are an argument like 140 feels right for these guys Yeah, I think this is like a points cost. I'm decently comfortable with yeah, like these guys are okay Um, make a lot of attacks on threes and fours with friend one or on the charge, you know, rend two damage too It's not bad. That's possible. Yeah one less attack on that on the tree. I'm just thinking about the Yeah, that point value we discussed is versus. Yeah comparing them to the the cavaliers Um, I mean, I like the fact that their mounts are so much deadlier like you can't undercount that Their their mounts are a lot better and the built-in all the time plus one to run in charge I really like so I don't think they're bad not at all Can we see them getting yeah some real play? Yeah, and particularly an elf list Yeah, if people were wanting to run elf lists and you take these drakespond nights I think that's fine. I think that's like you're not gonna they're gonna they're gonna do okay And I'm that five for 140 feels much better to me than five for 180 on your downside cost, right? It's a question of risk All right, and so that's that's where that is That's my line. So sure Dark riders Oh, these guys have usually sucked Okay, so let's talk about why I don't like these guys, but let me talk about what dark riders can do They're very fast to move 14 inches. They have an okay shooting attack. It's just like a lot of dice with no rend The so terror and confusion is their power ability. This is the new thing, right? So this is roll a dice each time an enemy unit issues a command within 12 inches of any friendly units of this ability On a five up that command is not received It still counts as having been used and the command point issue was lost It's a pretty decent range out of them For that and they're pretty easy to get in position for that right because they're so fast right and they can like Retreat and still shoot or charge if somebody catches them and doesn't kill them They can get away and keep harrying with this ability constantly Yeah, and then there was what was that an order they can retreat from combat at the end of the combat phase with an order elf order Yeah, correct Yeah, it's only that's correct. It's only issuing it turns off. It doesn't stop receiving You they have to be near the issuing thing right So it is possible to jump around that which is the downside to the so terror and confusion Like if they've got another they so okay They're within 12 inches and they don't want to risk it. But if they got a hero behind it, they could just Right, yeah, they could just issue from the hero So ultimately it's like Right, it's like it's fine So with the swiping a swift disengage order you have to have a hero in combat as well Next so that I don't know if that's going to exactly work out Like a mobile like this, right? Or are you going to actually have an elf hero up there? Aka dragon or something probably not so yep. Yeah uh, okay um So then the assassin who doesn't hide any units anymore. He hides near units Like he has super lookouts or he's invisible when he's near elves Okay, and if he charges he gets to strike first and he does d3 mortal wounds when he gets a hit roll of six That is a weapon he makes six stacks. He's okay. He like bunch d3 mortals I've had good luck with a similar unit in skaven But he doesn't quite have that amount of play because he doesn't have the ambush and stuff like that Which is what makes that unit powerful So he's probably just bad like because we you can't really get him into position um Black arc fleet master and the corsairs The fleet master is 90 points um and uh, he Also when he issues all that attack he gives the black arc corsairs plus one attack Yeah, I love that um, so the important part here is Uh, if they have the paired vicious blades This is your absolute optimal unit for this for the slap chop of the tenebrous blades right And it's on 25 mills man. That's gonna get scary. Yep uh Because these guys come in with four attacks each on fours and fours right um Yeah I could absolutely and they do they do a little bit of mortal wounds back as well And they they go battle line if you have a uh, scourge privateer general namely the guy directly above them obviously Yeah, I can definitely see like a darkling covens less 30 corsairs 30 Black arc maybe two by 30 just leaning right leaning into the good stuff. Absolutely I think that's the good stuff like maybe you got some knights They're also a good person to catch the nebulous blades, but they don't necessarily need it That's the advantage like if they can get in there and hit the right unit with neg two rend They don't need it. So you can save the corsairs for these guys right So or or whatever like you could have whore frost on one you could have the no No save on another one depends what you're fighting like you got a lot of play You've got the sorceresses. You can still be in hallow heart Right so you can start your sorceresses can all be casting only 3d 6 plus 2 Like it can do a lot of work I think there this is the section of the dark elves that I think have play the sorceress The black guard the fleet master the corsairs and a thing we haven't talked about yet And the and the knights. Yeah, sorry. Yes, and the drake spawn nights. I think that's all got play So like hope is not all lost if you if you're wanting to play dwarves or or dark elves I do think there is play in both of those forces if you want to make that like no, you're like That's my primary force. I don't really want much of the humans. I think there's absolutely play You don't have as much of the crazy tricks, but you still have some like the counter charge Isn't any city's list the move bonus isn't any city's bonus Right, so like you're getting these dudes moving around at nine inches. That's not nothing right and um So like yeah, it's it's good Like there's I think there is still absolutely viable armies in The dark elf and dwarf sections. I just think there's like some real trap units in these sections That's the problem like the assassin and the the Uh dread spears and crap like that. There's just like unless you're just taking dread spears to get executed, right? There's just no point Yeah, dark shards. Yeah, exactly All right scourge runner chariots one or three 80 or 240. I like these guys a lot Uh, they're ravager harpoons Uh, our two attacks three threes neg two d three goes to straight three damage against monsters They move 12 inches Uh, I like these dudes. I like these guys a lot Yeah Yeah, man, these have seen play over the years Uh, you know, there's a period when season sigma bill came out. They saw a fair amount of play like six of them plus on a table Uh, I big fan. Yeah, I really like these guys for the battle tactic You know taking three charge three with with that like if you were if you were interested in having an 80 point Unit for surround and destroy it. I would take scourge runner chariots over gyro bombers every day that we can twice on sunday Yeah I think these will definitely see some play multiple list Yep solid uh, criptus and the criptus 12 wounds four up safe If you're going to take a monster, this is the one you're going to take And you're going to take it because of abyssal howl Enemy units cannot receive the rally and inspiring presence commands while they're within 12 inches of this unit Okay. Yeah, yeah, all right Crib this is finally interesting. Yeah, I don't his damage is mostly crap Okay Yeah, it's like five attacks on four threes neg one three damage get out of here with this You're taking him as a 160 point monster to Float up in there and shut off Inspiring presence and rally. I don't yeah, I don't hate it Particularly in a dark elf list in a in a dark one covence list. Yeah, that's kind of leaning leaning and all this stuff Right, I could definitely see that taking a get it get your monster in there skip the dread lord At least skip skip the black dragons go go this for your monster And she could auto run it, you know 8 14 26 Allocation on the turning off rallying inspiring pretty cool Yeah, it's more up save but yeah, yeah, I don't hate it Yeah, I mean this thing just runs around and shuts off those two commands. That's what it's for That's its job somebody shoots it down who gives a caught crap like right go nuts right like Yes, he can receive tinevral blades, but I would never put it on him. It's like that is a waste. There's better units. What am I doing with that? um No, it's just fine Like it's if they waste their shooting power on killing this thing. I couldn't care less Knock yourself out man. Go for it Like what what a wonderful thing for you to shoot at. Thank you. Thank you for shooting at this dumb thing I'm I'm Perfectly happy for you to shoot this stupid this stupid guy Like if you feel that's the threat Go for it Because I got a lot of other crap back here that disagrees Right, um, so, you know great let him shoot at this thing Uh, yeah, I mean like crib. This is good. He's he's he's got play 160 I think he'd really have play by the buy at like 150 140 He's still a little bit expensive for what he actually is going to do on the field But it's not bad. It's not bad. He's like maybe just T see we can see bit too high I think you should go to 150 Sample list. Here's your little pack. Wait. We do need to make a change here Because you had this wrong He can't have this or the collegiate arcane. He has Transmutation of lead because that's what he has to have. There you go. Okay. Fix your list. There you go, Tyler Talk about your list Yes, I don't have the Let me pull up the version that I sent to you. Okay. Go this real quick I did choose your own adventure. I mean as we talked about maybe it's just Hello hearts Maybe it's the hammer hall accia for the issuing twice with the orders with the unit You're an adventure banners up high. Uh, I really love that grand strategy right up your alley with totems and banners They they must have stolen that from you your love So, you know, as I said with this list, I was just trying to write a list that I thought would be reflective of what somebody new to cities of sigmar might like to do like, okay I love these new models. I want to have a mix of them, but I want to have a competitive list I don't want to put 90 fusiliers on the table. I want to have something that's pretty good, right? This was this was an attempt at that. So it's an extra Well clear Cavalier marshal there's an argument to just go the foot guy the foot marshal But because we discussed during the show, right You have to think about lookout sir differently in my mind So he's not going to benefit from lookout sir But he has like a super lookout sir because he's going to be standing early on probably by the fusiliers You're not going to be shooting at this guy Freed gill cavalier marshal. Sure. So it'll probably be safe. He's got yeah, who would risk it Uh, so yeah, someone's trip safe. So he's going to be able to soak up some aoe pretty well You know, he's not getting a bodyguard like the little I don't think he gets the the bodyguard from the frugal command corps. That's just on the marshal right on the marshal with on boy Yeah, again, but But you're probably again, you're probably fine because because of all of that Uh, I didn't worry about drops with this list. I don't think I mean, yeah, if you wanted to you could go You could lean into very low drops You probably don't care about who goes first. You'd love to go first often get your buffs up Uh, I guess you could go you would be a very different list if you're wanting to really care right about going like a one drop Obviously, I love acolytes battalion Like getting the extra cast especially extra unbinds Cleaning in synergy with hollow heart really making sure you're going to get your spells off merciless blizzard is one of the war forgers. It's uh Powerful counter-attack spell, you know, people come yeah people get near you. They try to break your castle You throw 46 mortal wounds in their face. Yeah, of course Yeah, we're seeing a lot of that use with uh with merciless blizzard right now as a counter counter piece Uh, and then the cavalier marshal turns on the very synergies with the spreego cavaliers both on the charge And then the core just charge in general that counter charge are either going out and getting into something Uh, amazing, you know, because we're going to be on strike first with at least a cavalier marshal and one of them You've got some mobile pieces here to help you as the game goes on So, yeah, it's like to me man. This was like my attempt as I said at trying to create like a more Fair enjoyable version of the competitive castle build that I think we might see Sure With some mobile pieces you've got your mobile hammer in the freegill marshal on griffin with a sigmarite war hammer You've got your two war forgers. I think that's going to be very common in that but at 90 points is going to be every list Yeah You've got 139 wounds in this list Which is going to be often on a five up ward with most of it So that a lot of wounds that might be an indication that we're off with some of these point valleys Uh, you've yeah 20 freegill still helms. You've got really good buffing right there on that on that outer layer Another tenor to float elsewhere on a different objective Screening in the back or whatever it needs to do Uh, yeah, I I don't know. What do you what do you think about this? I mean, yeah, it seems seems like a nice all comers standard You know variety pack list that has real play. I mean, obviously you got you got three pretty significantly undercosted units in here Uh, so that's fine. So you're right. You're probably getting a little more But yeah, I mean it's got it's got all the toys you want It's going to play well into the things like there's still more super wombo combo stuff You could put in you could skew harder. We could we could you know, we could skew harder We could wombo combo harder, but no, I think it's a I think it's a good swing And I think it's pretty indicative of the kind of thing you're going to see as just like a baseline Yes, absolutely Yeah, okay Yeah, it's just yeah, I thought it might be helpful to try to have a baseline Yeah, I feel like some of these review shows it would be useful if we did a little bit more Uh, yeah, like in terms of how we're thinking about how you think about it Yeah Because you have to see the big picture and how all this adds up This is not the full tilt version whatever that might look like but I do feel like something like this could go 5 0 Like it might would be my assessment. This has tremendous play. I think I agree tremendous And it is it's probably a little over tuned In terms of what you're getting into k right now. Sure not a I don't know how how over tuned do you think this is like how much Like a unit over tuned, which is about the cost this thing should go up Like you should be down another steel helm unit or like 10 steel helms or a cavalry unit or something like that I mean you're kind of paid off because I think Cavaliers are slightly too expensive. So it's somewhere in that range You know Okay, cool good Well, we did it. It was a very long show, but we did it. All right. Well, thank you everybody for watching. We finally did the city's review Thank you so much for sticking that with us. If you did the whole time, you're amazing Uh, we love you. Don't forget to hit like subscribe do all those things that make all those dings Uh, but we really appreciate it. Share it That's a great thing to do if you want to support the show. There's lots of ways you can do so You can buy a game. So for example majestic 13 or space station zero or rain and hell Those are all linked down below. Those are the games I make with uncle Adam You can visit our merch store. That's linked down there all those kinds of things, but as always Hey, you watched and I am deeply appreciative of it. Thank you, tyler for going through this Thanks for making the list. Thank you all out there. Lots of great chat and conversation in this one Uh, and uh, really appreciate it As always We'll see you next week