 So good morning to everyone connecting from BC. Good afternoon to our panelists connecting from the Eastern Canada. Welcome to the webinar, everything you need to know about customs procedures under Canada's pre-trade agreements. My name is Ganna Drost. I'm manager at the Trade Policy and Negotiation Branch, BC Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery, and Innovation. I'm joined today by my colleague Benjamin Kaliznik, senior manager at the same branch. Before I begin, I'd like to acknowledge that I'm speaking today from the territories of the Dekwungen speaking peoples, the Esquimalt and St. Gees First Nations. And I'm thankful you are able to connect today from the territories and communities in which you live, work, and play. Our today's webinar will focus on exporting and importing procedures under Canada's pre-trade agreements. And the reason why we are doing this is because we often hear how confusing certain processes and topics may be for you. Some uncertainty and lack of clarity about how to comply with procedures or even just using the benefits of Canada's pre-trade agreements to your advantage. So we hope that this webinar will help to demystify some key procedures and processes and clarify the steps you need to follow to export or import your products and goods between Canada and markets where Canada has pre-trade agreements. So we are very fortunate today because we have the experts in the field from the federal government as well as the private sector. Amandeep Gill, she's a deputy director at Global Affairs Pacific Regional Office. And throughout her career, Amandeep has held various diplomatic assignments in Hong Kong, New York, Geneva, Paris, and including at the World Trade Organization. We also have Martin Thornell, who is senior advisor at the Tariff and Goods Market Access Division at Global Affairs Canada. And Martin's work is focused on rules of origin and he was involved in the negotiation of rules of origin for KUSMA, CPTPP, SETA, and other Canada pre-trade agreements. We also have two senior program advisors from the Canada Border Service Agency, Trade Policy Division. Richard Lepage has been with CBSA for the last 16 years and his role is to administer the rules of origin and origin procedures for the different trade agreements. We also have Michael Damitsu, who has been involved in the negotiation of the trade facilitation provisions in Canada's pre-trade agreements in the past 10 years. And Michael also has an extensive experience in international trade in the private sector. We also have three representatives from the private sector actually. Christiane Sevier, his founder of the Import-Export Consultancy, Solimpax. And Christiane has over 30 years career in international logistics in Europe and in Canada. And he now helps SMEs to grow internationally and provides various trainings related to logistics, customs, regulatory aspects of international trade, supply chain, and other trade related issues. We also have Brianna Leninger. She's a US operations manager with Pacific Customs Brokers. Brianna is a licensed customs broker and a certified customs specialist. Brianna has been in the industry for over 17 years and has dealt with the clearance and compliance concerns for a multitude of commodities for all ports of entry and all modes of transportation. Oops. And we also have Gloria Terhar today. So Gloria is a trade compliance supervisor and regulatory compliance specialist at Pacific Customs Brokers. She has 17 years of Canadian customs brokerage experience and an extensive experience in all aspects of documentation and regulatory requirements in relation to importing goods into Canada. So we are very thankful for your time today and your willingness to share the wealth of the knowledge with the VC SMEs. So before we kick off, I'd like to go over the agenda and a few housekeeping items. The webinar today will last approximately two hours and there will be seven presentations. We will start with a short introduction into Canada's free trade agreements and how they work and we'll then move to the presentation about the Trade Commissioner Service, the rules of origin, the origin procedures, and trade facilitation under Canada's free trade agreement. And then we'll dive into the nitty gritty of the expert procedures, including customs forms and key considerations when exporting the goods to the US. And then we'll finish it off with the input procedures before moving actually to the Q&A session which we also expect to be a quiet, engaging one. We have reserved 20 minutes for the Q&A session and it will be at the end of the webinar, but please use the Q&A function that you can see at the bottom of your screen to raise the questions and you may ask the questions at any time throughout the event, but please try to be as specific as you can and indicate if possible who you are directing your question to. So this session is being recorded and presentations will be made available in the post event email. If you experience any problems with audio or other technical issues, please send me a message using the chat function below or direct it also to Ben Kalimnik. So now let's start it off with a quick introduction into the role of the Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation. I will also explain what trade agreements do and we'll show where Canada's free trade agreements are and what are the key steps to using them if you import or export your goods. So the Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation aims to make life more affordable for British Columbians by building a strong sustainable economy and improve the standard of living and increasing trade and investment for BC is critical and is an important part of our government's economic recovery plan. There are many ways how to increase the trade and one way is to encourage businesses to leverage the opportunities that are offered by free trade agreements and help you to diversify into your new markets and this is our job today. Of course, governments do not trade but the business is like you do and we focus on providing you support and having your back when you do business outside of the province domestically or internationally. So let's see what free trade agreements or FTAs do. You might have heard of the World Trade Organization, the WTO. It deals with the global rules of trade between nations and free trade agreements among the countries. They've built on the access that was negotiated under the WTO but they also go beyond that. So on this iceberg slide, you can see some of the provisions that are most relevant to export and import of goods. For example, reduced tariffs mean your product becomes more competitive in an FTA partner market. And it is also cheaper for you to import any inputs for your manufacturing from a country in an FTA with Canada. Facilitated customs procedures, for example, or business travel, they help to reduce your overall cost while transparent and non-discriminatory access provide certainty and level playing field in doing business in a certain country. There are also lots of other provisions that's covered trade and services, investment procurement and other commitments. And FTAs, they also become more comprehensive and cover things like SMEs, e-commerce and an inclusive trade. So on this slide, you can see that Canada, of course, is a trading nation and currently there are 15 free trade agreements that we have with over 49 countries that give us access to about 1.5 billion potential consumers worldwide. On this map, you can see a network of Canada's FTAs and the FTAs that are in blue are the implemented FTAs, like the one, for example, with the United States, with the European Union, with Japan. And the most recent Canada's FTA that entered into force on April 1st this year is Canada-UK Trade Continuity Agreement. It essentially rolls over the benefits of Canada-European Union, comprehensive and economic trade agreement and in the negotiation of bilateral Canada-UK trade agreement. And it is also worth mentioning that some FTAs are bilateral while others are multilateral. And sometimes there is also an overlap between the FTAs. For example, Canada is an FTA with Mexico through KUSMA and it also has an FTA, it is also connected to Mexico through the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, CPTPP. So the UK also has started negotiating its accession to the CPTPP just yesterday. So Canada might well end up with a multilateral and bilateral trade agreement with the UK. But the good news for you is that FTAs do not cancel one another and you can choose under which FTA you want to claim preferential terms of trade. So we often hear from businesses, are FTAs benefits automatic if I export to a country that we have an FTA with? The short answer is no, you have to claim the benefits or the preferential treatment. So I'll just provide a glimpse into a few key steps that you need to keep in mind and I'll let other speakers dive into the details. So first you'd want to check a tariff preference in a select FTA market and you can do it through Canada's Tariff Finder website. You can see the embedded link here and you can use either the Harmonized Systems Code or a keyword for your product. And this tool is pretty user-friendly. So you can Google, you can check your product there and how it will be treated in Canada's FTA market tariff wise. So next step, you'll need to check the compliance with the rules of origin and rules of origin are the rules around the amount of domestic content in a good and they can be complicated and they also product specific and I'll leave it to my fellow speakers who tell you more in a bit. So once you are done with the first two steps, you'll need to fill in a certificate of origin and the information needed for this certificate can vary by agreement as well. So if you want to be sure how another country, customs administration will treat your product upon arrival, you can also request an advance ruling on tariff or on origin information. And this advance ruling, they are one of the most effective trade facilitation tools in Canada's FTAs and they help expedite customs clearance and provide you certainty about how your product will be treated by the foreign customs administration even before you ship it. So it's also comforting to know that you're not alone in your export journey and British Columbia has a dedicated team of trade and investment professionals as well as a network of international trade and investment representatives that are based throughout the world in China, Japan, Korea, Southeast Asia, India, Europe and the US and our representatives there can assist you with the international market intelligence and market strategy advice connected to international buyers and assist you with participation in different trade events and our TIRs, so the trade and investment representatives, they are for the most part are collocated with global affairs Canada in Canada's embassies, but where BC does not have a TIR presence in the market, our first recommendation is to reach out to Canada's Trade Commissioner Service, which I'll think you'll hear more about in the next presentation. So here is my last slide with the contact details and if you take one thing away from today's presentation, I hope it's that you have, if you have any questions about Canada's free trade agreements or how to use them, you just get in touch with us and we'll be happy to help you out or to connect you with a person who can assist. So now I'll pass it over to Mandip Gill from Global Affairs Canada for her update. Mandip, over to you. Mandip, you have something new to yourself? Yes, hi, sorry, my system is quite slow, so I've been clicking for about 30 seconds. Hello everyone, thank you, Ganna so much for the opportunity to be here. Welcome to everyone. Before I turn it over to my colleague, Martin Thornel, who will speak about the nitty gritty on rules of origin, I wanted to take a moment to introduce you to one of, sadly, one of the best kept secrets that you might want to take advantage of. So I am from the federal government, we work quite closely with the provincial government and we used to be the Department of International Trade, we are now Global Affairs Canada. So we have a service, the Canadian Trade Commissioner Service, which our aim is to help Canadian SMEs export abroad. So we are very much focused on the export angle, not on the import angle. And I wanted to give you a little bit of an overview of what we do, who our clients are, what kinds of services we provide, and make sure that it's not as big a secret as it has been. So we'll move on to the next slide. So I thought we would start off today's presentation with a question to the audience. So we're going to be using an interactive platform called Mentimeter. So to answer the questions, you need to go to this website, you can do this on your phone, you can do this right on your laptop, whatever device you have handy. So if you could go right now, and we'll be doing this again throughout the day, so it's menti.com. And then it will simply ask you for a code. So if you could just enter this code, that is on the screen right now, it's 73810065, and it's also been posted in the chat. So once you are logged in, the first question, the only question you have to answer at the moment, on a scale of one to five, how would you rate your knowledge of the Trade Commissioner service available, the services and programs available to your company? So one being low and five being high. And we'll see these results appearing in live time on the screen. So again, that's menti.com. And then you enter 73810065. We'll just take a look. Okay, right. Oh, I love this. I love the real time aspect of this. And you know, I'm not surprised. I mean, we're seeing most, the majority of answers on the lower end of the scale in terms of knowledge of the Trade Commissioner service. So I wasn't kidding when I said that we are the best kept secret, and we don't want to be just getting back to my presentation. So let's move. So that's, you know, that's hopefully we will change that by the end of these few minutes I have with you. So moving on to the next slide, the Canadian Trade Commissioner service. So like I mentioned, we are the federal government. We are based all around the world and our embassies abroad. And we've been around for 120 years. We're located in 174 cities. There's about 1,000 Trade Commissioners around the world. And we make up some of our colleagues, sorry, some of our colleagues abroad, the Trade Commissioners are part of the most comprehensive network of international trade professionals. We find that clients, companies who work with the Trade Commissioner service, by the way, our services are all free. They tend to access 36% greater international markets and export 18% greater goods. So moving on to the next slide, who are our clients? So who do we work with? Essentially we work with small and medium enterprises like yourselves, who have a capacity and commitment for internationalization. So usually that means that there's dedicated resources, both human resources and financial resources to go into new markets, that they've conducted some research and looked at opportunities and that they have a credible business plan. So the capacity is there and that there are meaningful ties to Canada economically. So typically these are Canadian companies that we support to export. And then the third criteria is that there has to be a potential to contribute significantly to Canada's economic growth. So that most Canadian companies that are looking to either diversify or enter new markets abroad, tend to qualify once they have demonstrated that they fit in those three criteria. So moving on to the next slide, how we help. So these are the types of services that we provide. We essentially market advice. So I like to sort of group these into three things, main things that we provide, although I know there's four points on there. So one is information, two is people and three is money. So essentially in terms of information, we can help you with market advice. We have some real experts in the markets that can provide you sector specific advice for that market. People, we can help you find qualified contacts for expanding your business in new markets that's working through our network abroad and money. So we have some funding programs and I will highlight one or two of them momentarily. We also do troubleshooting once, if there is a problem that arises, we will try to assist. We can't enter into any commercial disputes or legal situations. However, working with the trade commissioner service, we find that often we can help companies avoid running into these problems. So the next slide, this is one of our signature programs, our funding program. It's called Can Export, SME. And essentially what this is, is a funding program to help support companies' costs in diversifying to new markets. It won't, traditionally this has been a fund that has really supported companies attending trade shows and supports their travel, of course in the current context, it's more aimed at digital presence and market research and consultancy and legal fees and expanding to those markets. So this program will be opening up for applications in the fall, so keep your eyes up for that. And if you have any questions about it, please feel free to be in touch. The next slide is the K&A technology accelerators. This is another offering that we have for tech companies. We have a number of technology accelerators around the world, particularly in the US, Europe and Asia. And it offers, if you qualify for this program, it really offers a wonderful package of assistance. It allows you to have a mentor in that market. It gives you access to shared workstations that other entrepreneurs and innovators in that market have access to. And it opens up a network of qualified contacts that our offices abroad can help you be in touch with. So Silicon Valley, New York, also Hong Kong, Singapore, and then we are going to be opening some up in London and we have one in Germany as well. So those are examples of the types of offerings we have. So again, we help Canadian businesses export abroad. We have funding, we have information, and we have contact. So I wanted to just finish off before I hand it over to Martin. If you could go back to thementi.com and enter that participant code that's on the screen. And this time, the question is, following this quick presentation, what is your knowledge of the TCS, the Trade Commissure Service? Now it has A, B, C, and D choices. It's remained the same. It's increased slightly, quite a bit. Interested to see your responses. And please do feel free to reach out to us. We are located in across Canada's regions. So, you know, feel free to contact us and look at that. Okay, excellent. So my work here is done. Definitely increased the knowledge. So that's exactly what we want to do. So please don't hesitate to be in touch with us. Here's my contact information on the next slide. And I'm based in Vancouver. I have colleagues all across the country. And so I'm going to turn it over to Martin. So when you hear the words free trade agreement, what are some of the benefits for your company that come to mind? I'm going to pass this over to Martin, but maybe take it just a moment to go back to menti.com. And it'll just be a fill in the blank in this case. So the question is, when you hear free trade agreements, what are some of the benefits that come to mind? Let's take a look. Duty elimination, reduced tariffs, excellent. Elimination of reduction. Yes, tariffs, tariffs, tariffs reduced. That is exactly right. We have a pretty smart audience today. So I'm going to let Martin talk about rules of origin and yes, tariff reductions for sure. Over to you, Martin. Thanks, Matt Deep. Okay, so everybody, it looks like there's general awareness that at least if you produce a product, the benefit that you can achieve through an agreement is duty-free or at least reduced tariff treatment. So I'm going to talk about the key that you need to have to unlock that treatment, which is the rules of origin. So if we go to the next slide, now this is a quote that whenever we talk about rules of origin, we always haul this out. Rules of origin are very complex. You don't want to know about them. They're terrible things to deal with. That's from now, long ago, Canadian finance minister, Michael Wilson. He said that in and around the time he had to deal with them in the context of the original NAFTA. It's sort of true and not true because it is true, writ large rules of origin are pretty complex because we have different rules of origin for every type of good. And we have what we call product-specific rules of origin and general rules of origin. But I think it's actually maybe a little bit overstated because by and large, most companies are, they only want to export one or two or a small handful of goods, in which case they only have to know about one or two or a small handful of rules of origin. And those rules of origin, when you break it down and look at it at the individual product level, they tend to be a little bit simple. So if we go on the next slide. So what I'm going to do today is sort of start off by talking about why we even have these things. Every free-train agreement includes a rule of origin, includes a chapter typically on rules of origin and an annex of what we call product-specific rules. And the reason they exist is because when we do an agreement, we only want to give that duty-free treatment or preferential treatment to things that are made in the partner country. And they only want to give that same treatment to things that are made in Canada. So one of the things you cannot do in terms of taking advantage of one of our FTAs is import a good from somewhere else, say import a good from China into Canada and then export it to the United States and try to get preference under the Canada-US-Mexico agreement because that's not a Canadian good. It's not, or what we would say is it's not an originating good. So the US has no interest in providing preferential treatment to that good. And we would feel the same way about a similar circumstance for a good that was coming into Canada from somewhere else. So what the rules are is they're the criteria that are used to determine if a thing is a Canadian thing or if a product is a Canadian product or an American product or a case of our agreement. Europe, a European or a German product. And so the objective is we wanna make sure that if we're gonna give this preference to the goods, that something meaningful occurred in terms of meaningful production was undertaken in Canada to produce that good. So if you import a good and you just polish it or something like that or it probably won't meet the rule of origin, but if you import a bunch of materials and do some manufacturing or processing, then it will meet the rule of origin. And we would often say that it's been sufficiently produced or undergone sufficient transformation to benefit from the FDA. So that's why they exist. And we'll go to the next slide. And as I mentioned, they exist in all of our free trade agreements. And typically in those agreements we'll have something, a set of general rules of origin and those are in a chapter sometimes called the protocol. And then we'll have an annex to that portion of the agreement in which we list the product specific rules of origin. The general rules of origin as the name implies apply horizontally to all goods. So for example, we'll have rules that relate to how the packaging of a good might be treated. And then we have these general rules that relate to what are called in a trade agreement wholly obtained goods. So you can imagine what those are. It's fish caught in Canada or fruits or vegetables that are harvested in Canada, lumber, natural products that come from the Canadian territory from Canadian land or the road in Canada with that view. Those are wholly obtained. The rules around or the definition of what wholly obtained goods are, those are in the general rules of origin. But it's understood that the vast majority of goods that are traded are made using often a combination of some materials that were sourced from Canada and some materials that were sourced from somewhere else. Those materials that are sourced from somewhere else, we typically refer to them as non-originating materials. And whenever a good is made from some non-originating materials, then we need to look at the product specific rules of origin which are in that annex. So let's go to the next slide. So now I'm gonna talk about the product specific rule of origin. Now, this annex is organized on the basis of what's called the harmonized system. So it's the system that every country in the world uses for classifying products. And it starts with the goods that are classified in chapter one, which are live animals. And then it gets, as you go further and further into the harmonized system, you get more and more highly processed goods. So, you know, and there's a chapter for each type of goods, live animal goods, chapter one, sugar and sugar confectionary, chapter 17, wood and things made from wood, chapter 44, footwear, chapter 64, ships, chapter 89. And then it finishes with chapter 97, which is where works of art are located. And the harmonized system has a fairly simple structure. So you have the chapter level. So in the example I'm illustrating here, you have cereals and grains, they're in chapter 10. So wheat would be in here and barley would be in here and rice is in here. Now, rice specifically is in what's called the heading level, the four-digit code, in this case, 10.06. And then a somewhat more processed version of that would be in a subheading or a six-digit code. And that's for semi-milled or holy milled rice, whether or not polished or glazed. So all products will have a harmonized system code and the rules of origin are based on those codes. So if you wanted to find the rule of origin for rice, you would go and find the rule that applies to heading 10.06. If you're good happens to be a wood product, you would go into chapter 44 and look at the individual headings or subheadings and find the most specific reference to the product that you make. And once you've got that code, then when you look at the annex of product specific rules of origin, you just go to that code and you'll see the rule right beside it. Now, let's go to the next slide and we'll talk about how the rules themselves work. We really have three kinds of rules of origin, but we rely in an FDA, but really one type is fairly obscure and it won't come up very often. The principle type is what we call a tariff shift or change of tariff classification rule. And basically what the rule says is, if you import something, a not originating input to make a good, it'll be classified somewhere. And then if you undertake production or manufacturing or processing in Canada to transform whatever that thing you imported was into something that's classified differently, then what you've achieved is what's called a tariff shift. So in the example I'm illustrating here, if you import grapes, they happen to be fresh grapes, they happen to be in chapter eight, heading 06 subheading dot 10, so 0806 10. And you transform those grapes into wine. The wine would be classified in 2204 or 21. So you can see you've changed from chapter, a good from chapter eight, the grapes to a good that's in chapter 22. And now the rule of origin in Canada's FDA specifically say, yes, that's enough transformation for that wine to be considered originally. But we can write a rule that allows for the use of imported grapes or you can write a rule that doesn't allow for the use of imported grapes. And it all depends, that's what we negotiate. And it depends on the interests of Canadian interests and it also depends on the interests of our FDA partner. You can imagine that when you're negotiating with the European Union, they would like it if wine, the only wine that would be considered originating would be wine made from grapes that are grown either in Canada or the European Union. They don't want to give preferential treatment to wine produced imported grapes outside of Europe or Canada. But when you're negotiating with perhaps another country where they don't make wine, they might not care about that. And they might be perfectly comfortable with a rule that allows for the use of imported grapes. And this sort of balancing act is what occurs in the negotiations to try and get something that works for Canada and how we would like the rules to work and how our trade partners would work. So, cherished is sort of the form of rule you'll find most often in our trade agreements. And certainly with respect to agricultural goods and a number of other goods, this might be the only type of rule you'll see. But if we go to the next slide, we'll talk about the other common type. And that's just a rule that requires that a certain amount of value be added. And if that value added threshold is satisfied, then the good is considered a reasonable. If you import some materials and they're worth $10 and you undertake a lot of production in Canada and to transform them and that the resulting product is something that you could sell for $100, well, you've added a huge amount of value. So, on the basis of that value addition, that good would be considered originally. So, when you think of it really, it's the way these type of rules of origin work. It's the ratio of the value of not originating materials used to make the good, used in the production of the good, relative to the value of the finished good. And so in the Maft of Context, these are what we call regional value content. RBC rules. So, I suspect if you've done any trading in certainly in manufactured goods with the United States, you will have encountered this type of rule of origin. And what we often do in our agreements is we'll have one rule, we'll have an alternative. There'll be a tariff shift rule of origin, which you could, if you can satisfy that, fine. Your goods originating and you can claim the preference. And then we'll have an alternative value added rule. And so, the third style that I won't speak about a lot, but we sometimes have a rule that requires a certain process. The best example I think is with respect to apparel. We might have a rule that says if the good is cut in Canada, if the fabric is cut in Canada and sewn in Canada to make the apparel item, that's sufficient. Those processes cutting and sewing are enough to confer origin on the good. So, these are the types of rules you're gonna encounter. A tariff shift rule, a value added rule, occasionally a process rule. And if you satisfy, when you look at that rule, you obviously, you need to know where your materials came from and where they're classified. And you need to know where you're finished with is classified. And if there's a value rule involved, you need to know the relative value of those things. That's all the information you need, though, to figure out if you satisfy the product's specific rule. So, we go to the next slide. So, here we have one of the mentee questions and the question is, if my good or my product meets the rule of origin in the Canada-U.S., Mexico agreement, I know that it will also meet the rule of origin in the CEDA, the Canada's Agreement with the European Union, or the CPTPP agreement. And is that a true statement? Is that a false statement? Or is it a little bit of both? So, if you could hop onto mentee.com and give us an answer to that. Okay, I'll give it a few seconds. Waging battle here between false, both true and false. Good, I'm happy. Both true and false is leading the race. Okay, because that's the correct answer. And there is, now, each negotiation and each agreement, they're conducted separately. Obviously, Canada will often want to achieve the same kind of outcome when we're talking to the United States or we're talking to Europe or we're talking to the CPTPP. But so, we might often propose the same rule of origin for a certain good, but we won't necessarily succeed in negotiating that rule because the partner may have different interests. So, sometimes it's true because we did it resulted. We did achieve the same rule of origin. Or sometimes the rule might be different. The rule in one agreement might be more restrictive than the rule in the sense that allows for, it doesn't allow for the use of much non-originating material. And in another agreement, the rule might be somewhat more relaxed. Well, if you can meet the more restrictive one, it's true you are gonna meet the less restrictive one, but you can never assume this. This is really the point I'm trying to get at. If, you know, we run into this all the time where companies who have a lot of experience trading with the United States and they know how the rules of origin in the old after work and by and large, those rules of origin did have not changed in the new NAFTA, unless you make automobiles. So they know they met them under the old agreement. They know they meet them under the new agreement. So they assume they meet them if they find it on market opportunity in Europe or if they have a market opportunity in Japan or Vietnam, or for that matter, you know, Korea where we have an agreement or Switzerland or wherever the case may be. And they might be right. They might be okay, but they might not be okay. And so it's really important that if you're entering the new market and you want to get that preference, that you take a look at the specific rule that applies to your good and figure out if the rule works for your business, is that if you're exporting Y as an example, and it's chapter 22, whatever it was, 2204, it's 2204 under the NAFTA agreement, the COSMA, it's 2204 in CETA, it's 2204 in CPTBP, your tariff classification will not change. You just need to look at the specific rule in each of those agreements. So the rules differ across agreements and something else that's quite important, and this is the one that comes up a lot for Canadian companies is under an FTA, we have a rule that relates to accumulation, we call it. And what it means is that because, let's take the COSMA, because we've gone into an agreement with the United States of Mexico, where we agree to treat each other's goods or products as originating, if you make a product in Canada using U.S. materials or Mexican materials, those materials are considered originating in the same way that Canadian materials would be considered originating. Similarly, Canadian materials are considered originating when they're used in the United States to take something. Now that's true when you're trading within North America. However, in the context of the European Union, U.S. materials are non-originating. The other, what happens with the EU, Canadian materials are originating and European materials are originating. So you can use EU materials or they can use Canadian materials, but if you make a product in Canada using U.S. materials and then you wanna export that product to the European Union, you have to be very careful because those U.S. materials are non-originating. So they do not count toward the originate of thousands of goods, you have to make sure that they undergo enough of a transformation in Canada for that product to be considered originating. And the same thing applies in the CPTPP context, where Japanese materials would count as originating or Vietnamese materials. So because the accumulation rules differ across the different agreements, you have to be very careful about that. And it's pretty tricky for Canadian companies because so many firms here do manufacture things with the materials, with inputs from the United States. We're so close and integrated with them. It can mean, yeah, we have a great time meeting the rules of origin under the Canada U.S. agreement but a much tougher time in other situations. And that's why when we're negotiating these agreements with outside of North America, we typically do try to get more liberal or more relaxed rules of origin because we know that serves the interests of Canadian produce. Okay, here's another one of our mentee questions and effectively, has this been helpful to you? Do you understand rules of origin a little bit better? Or there's a sliding scale. And I guess what I would say is, it's just really important to, I think to get over this idea that rules of origin are, they are complex, but I think if you're someone manufacturing things, you have a really solid understanding of where your materials come and you know what you do, of course. So, I think once you get past sort of the vocabulary that we use in the rules of origin, where we talked about terrorship and the rule, when you look at a product specific rule of origin, it's not immediately intuitive what the rule means, but if you spend a little bit five or 10 minutes with it, I think you'll get it pretty quickly. And once you've got it, once you understand the rule of origin applies for your good in the Canada-U.S. agreement, for example, it doesn't look like we're gonna be renegotiating that one for a long time. So, that rule will remain the same for you. So, as long as you take the product in the same way, you're good to go. And the last thing I would say is, as the other speakers have, have any problems with rules of origin? I don't have a slide with my contact information, but I know the organizers of this event, they know how to get a hold of me and I'd be happy to exchange emails with you or have a conversation and we can start out if the rule of origin works. And with that, I will thank you for your attention and I will thank the organizers of this event for inviting me to participate. Thank you so much, Martin. Thanks, Mandeep. Thanks, Martin, for this deep dive into what Trade Commissioner Service offers and in the nuts and bolts of rules of origin and for keeping us all engaged in the wake with the poll questions. I'm pretty sure that this information is very helpful to the audience. We've received quite a few questions about the rules of origin during the registration process. So we'll be happy to tackle the questions after the presentations as well. So now I'm pleased to hand it over to Michael Damitsu and to Richard LePage from CBSA for their presentation on origin procedures and trade facilitation. Thank you, Ghana. Can everyone hear me? Yes. Okay, perfect. Good morning, everyone. Michael Damitsu from the Canada Border Service Agency or CBSA, I'm joined by my colleague, Richard LePage, who is our grew on origin policy from our customs procedure perspective. And together we'll be facilitating this presentation on the CBSA's involvement under Canada's free trade agreements or FTAs. As you may be aware, Global Affairs Canada is the overall government Canada lead with respect to the negotiation and oversight of Canada's free trade agreements writ large. Nonetheless, the CBSA is also directly involved in negotiation of specifically the origin procedures and trade facilitation provisions containing Canada's FTAs. And I'll be the first to admit that our presentation will not be as interactive and perhaps dry in comparison to the brilliant presentation delivered by Martin and Mandeep. But nonetheless, we hope that you find it helpful. And so with that said, I'll turn the floor over to Richard to walk us through the origin procedures lines. Again, may we have the next slide, please? Thank you. Thank you, Mike. And good morning to all. My name is Richard LePage. I'm the senior policy advisor for the origin program at the Canada Border Services Agency. And I will entertain you for the next two slides on the origin procedures for our free trade agreements. So what is the purpose of origin procedures? Well, first, it's to support the administration of the rules of origin that are negotiated by Global Affairs Canada. It also provides traders with the means to take advantage of preferential tariff treatment afford under a free trade agreement. And it provides the customs administration with the methodology to ensure that all that goods that are eligible to benefit from an FDA are declared under that preferential tariff treatment. So the CBSA is responsible for negotiating and implementing the origin procedures provision of Canada's FTAs. And this is done by two of Mike's and I colleagues that works in our unit. Also, CBSA seeks to establish transparent, predictable and user-friendly methods to administer the rules of origin that are conducive to the evolving trading environment. So our role is to facilitate that those rules of origin and to administer them as well. The establishment of origin procedures to be applied by the customs administration of each party is essential to administer and enforce those rules of origin. And as well, the origin procedures set out obligations on exporters, producers and importers as well as the different customs administration which are involved in the free trade agreement. So every negotiation is undertaken with the goal of creating origin procedures that provide certainty and transparency in the treatment of goods by the parties. It also set out an efficient process to administer the rules of origin and promote electronic processes, voluntary compliance. So when you need to correct, we expect that you will self-correct your documents as well as your declaration. Also provide with a simpler certification thereby reducing administrative costs for traders to comply. Thank you for the next slide. So depending on next slide, please, and thank you. The one before where there's the table, please. Very good, thank you very much. So this table will explain to you these different type of certification or proof of origin depending on the free trade agreement and how we conduct our verifications. Again, depending on the free trade agreement. So the customs procedures and rules of origin are linked together and are to be read together. So this includes record keeping requirements related to substantiate the origin of the good. So this table draws a comparison between the central tenants of the origin procedures, certification and verification. As well, you'll see that over time the certification and the verification of origin have evolved. So under COUSMA and CPTPP, the entities that can certify that the goods originate if they meet the rule of origin are the importer, exporter, or producer. So you'll see that under COUSMA and CPTPP, a Canadian importer, for example, could certify that the goods originate. That said, that important needs to make sure that the goods really meet the rule of origin. And that if a verification is conducted, that they will be able to provide the CVSA officer with the proper documentation to substantiate that. Under the Canada, UK, CETA, Canada, CAFTA and CEFTA, the exporter only can certify that the goods originate. And it's the same for other FDAs. For example, the FDA we have with Costa Rica, Colombia, Chile, and so forth. So those are the entities that can certify the goods depending on what preferential TAF treatments you are claiming or if you're exporting which FDAs you're using. So the certification format for COUSMA and CPTPP is a set of data elements which needs to be reproduced on a commercial invoice or any other commercial document. So you need to add the information on the exporter, the producer, the tax classification of your good. All that information is required and it is mentioned in the text of the different free trade agreements. Under UK, CETA, CETA, CAFTA and CEFTA, it's an origin declaration that again needs to be provided on a commercial invoice or any other commercial document. So it's not a set of data elements, it's simply an origin declaration. And for our other FDAs, it's a prescribed form which you will find on CBSA's website. So finally, who verifies the goods depending on the free trade agreement? So for COUSMA and CPTPP, it's the country of import who will verify the foreign exporter or producer. We will start by communicating with the importer asking for their proof of origin. And once we have the valid proof of origin, we will communicate with the exporter or producer of the good. If as an importer, you have certified that the goods meet the rules of origin under those two agreements, we will go to you to get that information. So you need to add the information or at least give us access to that information in order to substantiate that the preferential, yeah, I've claimed is valid and that's what it is. Under the other FDAs, under the CUK TCA, CETA, CAFTA and CEPTA, the country of export will verify their own exporter producer on behalf of a demand from the country of import. So for example, under CETA, if we think that the goods that are coming from France, for example, are not originating or we have a doubt or we think there's a risk that they do not originate, we will ask the France Customs Administration to conduct verification on hard behalf and vice versa. And for other FDAs, it's the same as for under Kuzmin CPTPP, it's the country of import that will conduct the verification and will verify the information of the exporter producer. So unless there are any questions, I will defer back to my colleague, Mike, for the rest of the presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you this morning and wishing you all the best. Thank you. Thanks, Richard. So Ghana, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our approach is to field any questions after everyone's presentation. Is that correct or? Yeah, we'll be taking the questions at the end of the presentation. Okay, sounds good. Okay, so, okay, you just flip the slides here, okay. So as a shared responsibility with Global Affairs Canada, the CVS is also responsible in negotiating the trade facilitation or TF provisions contained in Canada's FTAs. And we do so to ensure that when you export your goods to foreign FTA markets, you're not experiencing unwarranted or costly delays at foreign borders. At the same time, given that the TF commitments are applied on a reciprocal basis by Canada as well, we also ensure that we are not undermining Canada's ability to protect our borders from a public safety or national security standpoint, including economic security. In addition, since the entry into force of the WTO agreement on trade facilitation, commonly referred to as a TFA in February, 2017, both GAC and CBSA have sought commitments from our FTA partners that build upon our FTA, or excuse me, build upon the TFA. And we do so in an effort to provide our traders with added value and tangible benefits beyond those that are available to you today already under the TFA, as you look to export your goods into foreign markets. Next slide, please. So in terms of TF provisions that we calmly address in the TF chapter under Canada's FTAs, objectives and principles which simply sets the stage for the entire chapter. It establishes the overall purpose and scope of the chapter, which is the facilitate the movement of goods within the FTA territory, while ensuring trade compliance. Transparency includes publications on the internet. So trade-related laws, regulations, policies and procedures, inquiry points to respond to your industry questions in relation to the importation and exportation of goods, and obligations also to engage and consult with industry on customs matters. And together, the idea is to, through these transparency provisions is to provide our traders with all of the information necessary for you to trade your goods or export your goods and import your goods into FTA markets in full compliance with a country's import requirements. And of course, the more transparent the country's requirements, the easier it is for traders to operate in compliance. So that's the end goal there. Advanced rulings. And here I'll take the opportunity to thank Ghana for mentioning it in her presentation, because from the CVSA's perspective, advanced rulings represent the most powerful tool available to industry today. Why? Because it establishes 100% certainty and predictability as to how a customs administration will treat your goods with respect to tariff classification custom valuation methodology and tariff treatment. And the beauty of it is that certainty can be achieved 100% even before the good is exported for the exporting country. So if you would like to establish a certainty and to be able to forecast your landed costs of your goods from a duties in taxes standpoint, which ultimately impacts your bottom line, we strongly encourage you to request for an advance ring, whether it be through your customs broker or directly with the customs administration of the importing country. Release of goods is also front and center TF as it speaks to what happens at the border. And here we can ensure that Canadian goods are spending the least amount of time possible at foreign borders. As we recognize that every hour or every day your goods spend in customs control, it increases the cost of that transaction. So through obligations such as pre-arrival processing, automation and the separation of the release of goods by customs from the final determination of tariff class, customs valuation and tariff treatment of your goods by customs, we seek to GAC and CBSA, seek to ensure that your goods are entering those foreign FTA markets and are being consumed as soon as possible. And while we recognize that no two customs administrations are alike, it's safe to say that we would have concerns if it's consistently taking weeks for your goods to be released in Canada's FTA markets. Risk measurement is also fundamental to TF. Here we seek to ensure that our FTA partners are not examining each and every Canadian shipment, but are concentrating their customs measures on high-risk shipments and facilitating the releasing movement of low-risk shipments. From the CBSA's broader border management perspective, TF cannot be achieved by any country unless risk management is being applied, particularly in the at-border environment. So when you export your goods to Canada's FTA markets, your goods should not be subject to examination under each and every shipment, unless your goods are for whatever reason, not meeting the import requirements of that country, in which case they need to inform you of those reasons to minimize any delays in the future. Automation is about leveraging technology in support of a paperless trading environment and also to facilitate the communication or transmission of information and or data between the trader and the customs administration for any information related to importation and exportation of goods. So here are some examples, include single window is a term that you may have heard of, electronic customs forms, and any other form of electronic data transmission. Penalties, while it may seem odd to include in the TF chapter, some folks may be wondering how our penalties trade facilitated, but here we seek to ensure that where an FTA partner does administer customs penalties, they're due so in a manner that is supported and encourages voluntary compliance moving forward. And that the penalties administered are proportionate to the severity of the contravention or infraction committed by the traders. And for the CVSA, we meet this obligation to the Administrative Monetary Penalty System, otherwise known as MPS. Under review and appeal, whenever you receive an advanced ruling, a customs determination on the tariff classification, customs evaluation or tariff treatment of your goods, or perhaps you've received a customs penalty and you disagree with it, the review and appeal provisions seek to ensure that you are entitled to a fair and impartial redress mechanism to dispute that customs determination. And wherever possible, we seek to ensure that our FTA partners are providing both administrative and judicial levels of appeal to, given that for the most part, generally speaking, the judicial process is more time consuming, bureaucratic and costly for traders. Okay, protection of information ensures that when a foreign customs administration receives information or data from a Canadian trader, for instance, over the course of a request for an advanced ruling or perhaps as a requirement to import your goods into that foreign market, that such data or information is protected from unauthorized use or disclosure that could perhaps compromise the competitive position of the Canadian trader. And lastly, cooperation is about Canada and our FTA partners' commitment to cooperate moving forward, following the entry and the force of the FTA in an effort to ensure the smooth and appropriate administration of the TA commitment. So our work at CBSA and GAC do not stop after an FTA has entered into force. Next slide, please. So as mentioned earlier, our secondary objective under TF is to build upon the WTO TFA, and the pyramid you see before you simply illustrates how the comprehensive and progressive agreement for partnership, excuse me, for Trans-Pacific Partnership, or CPTPP, and the Canada-United States-Mexico agreement, or CUSMA, build upon the TFA. Also noted earlier, the WTO TFA establishes the international baseline for customs-related provisions that facilitate the movement, release, and clearance of goods. It is extremely broad and prescriptive agreement, multi-lateral agreement, which as of today has been run by 154 of the WTO's 164 members. So that establishes our baseline with respect to TF measures. Under the CPTPP, the parties build upon the TFA by agreeing to the release of goods to the extent possible within 48 hours of arrival for regular commercial goods and six hours for express shipments or courier shipments. And then also to provide for advanced rulings on the application of customs valuation criteria, which will guide traders as to how to value their goods under the WTO customs valuation methods when importing goods into CPTPP markets. Under the CUSMA, Canada went further with the US and Mexico, building not only on the TFA but the CPTPP as well. Under the CUSMA, all parties have been committed to maintaining de minimis thresholds for goods imported by courier. As you may be aware, de minimis or Canada's courier imports remission order falls under the responsibility of the Department of Finance, unless the new remission thresholds for goods transferred by a courier from the US or Mexico, are Canadian $150 for customs duties and $40 for customs duties and taxes. Secondly, all parties have committed to maintaining a low value shipment or LDS threshold for goods imported by courier, below which certain benefits will apply. And Canada's LDS threshold is Canadian $3,300. Next, to encourage voluntary compliance, the parties have also committed to penalty provision that allows for circumstances in which traders may correct errors without penalty. We've also committed to an obligation for customs and measures to communicate the reasons for delay in the release of imported goods. Once again, we recognize that time is money for businesses. So you're entitled to know the release status of your goods and if they're being held up, the reasons behind it. Lastly, the CUSMA partners committed to maintaining a single window system that enables imports to submit all document requirements for importations, specifically for release purposes with some limited exceptions through a single portal. So in this manner, the CPTPP and CUSMA provide after this with additional TF benefits beyond those that already existed under the TFA. Next slide, please. So explained through the previous slides, along with our colleagues at GAC, the CVSA is certainly supportive of FDA provisions that establish greater certainty, predictability, and transparency in customs matters, and assist Canadian companies, such as yours, micro, small, medium-sized enterprises in accessing foreign markets and increasing the opportunities in successfully conducting businesses abroad. And the remaining slides are probably for everyone's reference and resource purposes. And unless for more information regarding Canada's FTAs, we recommend consulting global affairs, Canada's Trade and Investment Agreements website. And for more information regarding the requirements and procedures of Canada's FTA partners, including customs, we recommend contacting the Trade Commissure Service. Next slide, please. Okay, this slide simply contains CVSA's contact information. If you have any questions related to imports or exports from Canada, we will recommend contacting the CVSA Border Information Services by phone or by email. And we've also included a hyperlink to our website in the slide as well. So that is for your pre-usal. Next slide, please. And lastly, on this slide, you'll find a list of CVSA departmental memoranda, otherwise referred as DEMEMOS, that contain a variety of information on the CVSA's policies and procedures with respect to the administration of Canada's free trade agreements. And that concludes our presentation. Our apologies for having gone over time here, but unless I thank Ghana from my end as well for the opportunity to present and to all participants as well for your attention and interest. Thank you. Thank you so much, Michael. Thanks, Richard, for this substantive piece of information that complements Martin's presentation on rules of origin, but also provides a glimpse into trade facilitation and especially for drawing this comparison between different Canada's FTAs. So in the interest of time, we might need to either reduce a little bit the time allocated for the presentations or for Q&A. And for the Q&A session, I encourage you to use the box with Q&A and send over your questions so that we can measure and estimate how much time we need for that. So now I'd like to move to Christiane Sevier, who will talk about the expert procedures, customs forms and compliance. Christian, the floor is yours. Thank you very much, Ghana. And good morning, everyone. I'm really happy to be here. And I must say actually, even though I'm not based in BC, I'm based in Montreal. BC is a special place in my heart because the last business trip I did before the pandemic hit was in Vancouver where I was presenting at the Canada Logistics Conference at the Vancouver Convention Center. I've been presenting there for, it was my third year of presenting there. And so I like most of you, if not all of you, I look forward to be able to travel again and to attend events like this very soon. So on my next slide, I have, if we could advance it, please, Ghana, I have a very brief introduction. Ghana introduced me at the beginning. I need, we need to catch up on time a little bit too because we're running a little bit behind. So two things I want to bring to your attention. Inside logistics, supply professional at the bottom, these are two publications that are specializing on supply chain and importing and exporting issues and logistics and customs issues. I encourage you to look them up because they are free. So that's why I mentioned them there. And also I publish articles in both publications. On the next slide, I want to show you a very brief introduction or my opening statement and what I wanted to say here and just remind us, remind ourselves that free trader remands don't really create a market for our products. And so we always have to ask ourselves when we export, we always have to ask ourselves first, is there a market for my product? And then of course we want to use the free trader agreement benefits, obviously. But so just a reminder, I know I'm stating the obvious, but free trader agreements themselves don't create markets. There has to be markets for our products first. So on the next slide, I had some I want to show you and basically confirm what Martin had said. Martin mentioned in this great presentation on rules of origin, he mentioned that they were complex and a bit intimidating. And so if you find them complex and intimidating, what I want to tell you is don't worry because everybody finds them complex and intimidating at the beginning. And here I wanted to share the results of a survey that was done a few years ago by Thomson Reuters which is interesting. It says that many companies don't fully utilize free trader remands. And it even says further down at the bottom here on the bottom on the left-hand side that almost 80% don't fully utilize of the companies that don't fully utilize free trader agreements of the 70%, then 79% don't fully utilize free trader remands because of the rules of origin and the complexity of documentation. So it is a fact. There's similar surveys done in Japan, in Europe, even GAC did a survey last year or two years ago and I believe on the utilization ratio of the CETA agreement and the Trans-Pacific Partnership and I think it was around 50%. So all this to say that it is, they are complex but they are necessary and they are important. And so if we export, if we are serious into exporting we have to invest the time to learn about them and to be familiar with them and to be at ease with them because you just have to, nobody else can do it for you. You can get help from your government representative from the Trade Commissioner Service, from consultants, from customs brokers, but ultimately it's your responsibility. So invest the time to learn about them so you can make informed decisions also on your supply chain options. It's really, really important. And don't worry if you're an SME, don't worry. It's not worse for SMEs. Actually it's easier for SMEs because SMEs have a simpler supply chain. It's more complex for big multinationals who have operations around the world than for us SMEs because our supply chain is shorter and easier to handle and to follow. So on the next slide I want to show you what an origin certification looks like. That's the famous NAFTA certificate of origin which some of you might be familiar with. We've been using it for a few decades, right? That's the origin certificate we've been used for NAFTA. So now actually what you can do with it is you can fold that document neatly and then you can do this with it because it does not exist anymore. We don't use that form anymore but I just want to show it to you for illustration purposes. And basically my message here is that if you issue a certificate of origin or an origin certification, whichever of the two as an exporter, remember that this is a serious document. It's a legally binding document. It means that you are certifying that the goods that you're selling, that you're shipping, that you're sending in the US or overseas meet the rules of origin. So it's a very important step and it's not something that we can improvise. Don't improvise. Don't say to yourself, okay, my goods should be fine. I'm going to do the certificate. I'm going to sign it and then I'll see what happens at the border. And then if it goes through the border, then you can rejoice and say to yourself, okay, great. So everything is fine. We'll never have any problem. That would be the totally wrong attitude because even if your goods goes through the border today or tomorrow or next week, it doesn't mean that there won't be a control, a check and that they won't be held at some point. Also, it doesn't mean that customers won't audit you. In fact, this is how it happens. Most of the time, verifications are not really done at the time goods cross the border. They're done afterwards. And so your goods could go through the border. If you haven't done your homework and you have faulty documents, they could still go through the border. And then one day you're going to get a little note or a little phone call or an email from CBSA or USCBP telling you that they're coming to see you and they want to audit your books. And then you have to prove that your goods complied and you have to have built the proper documentation to prove that. You have to have all your documentation from your suppliers to be able to prove where your raw materials originated, et cetera, et cetera. You need to have a bill of material. So this is a very serious, a very important, a fundamental process and you have to build it right from the beginning and you really have to take it seriously. And as Martin indicated, the rules are different. Every free trial agreement has slightly different rules and the certification process or the origin certification process varies also. So it's unfortunate, but that's how it is. This is, you know, it's called diversity, right? We want to diversify our markets. So we have to learn the different rules of the different free trial agreements and the different forms or formulations that we have to use. That's just how it is. And one thing I wanted to illustrate also very quickly is Martin talked about the HS code. And so you see, you find it in your certificate of origin, you find it at the bottom, your HS tariff classification number. So even though that form is not used anymore, I wanted to show you where the HS code goes. And so you have to, it's part of the data elements that you have to supply. On the next slide, I want to actually be can skip because I wanted to illustrate or refer to what Martin mentioned, but I think we don't have enough time. So we'll just skip that slide right away. And one very important point that I want to share with you is that before you even start the process, you know, we're saying, and we are rightly saying that rules of origin are very important, are fundamental to free trial agreements. And before we want to take advantage of the free trial agreement, we have to be sure and we have to be certain that our goods meet the rules of origin. And that's complex. That needs time investment. That needs time and investment in time and money. And, but it's worthwhile because then our goods get the preferential tariff treatment in the destination country. Therefore they are more competitive than goods coming from other countries. But so before we do that actually, what I want to share with you here with this slide is that we should also verify, we should first verify what are the customs duties? What are the tariffs on my products? Because, you know, there's many products that are actually duty free in the US, in Canada, in Europe. So it's the, I would say the first step we should take. Let's have a look. What are the duties? What are the tariffs on my products? And so in some cases, there aren't any tariffs or in some cases they're very small. So depending on your situation, depending on your case, it happens that companies prefer to pay the tariff, the customs duties than to have the compliance obligations of having to prove that their product meets the rules of origin. And so look at the, in the customs tariff, for example, here in the US, you see if you're in aerospace, for example, most aerospace, and that's not just in the US, that's also around the world, most aerospace products are duty free. That's just how it is. So then don't worry about the CDAT documentation or the Kusma documentation or the rules of origin for vehicles, automobile parts, the customs tariffs are 2.5%. And for some products, you'll find the high tariffs. For example, the one I wanted to show you here on the screen is for trucks. The US has been able to keep its, to maintain a healthy truck manufacturing industry by having very high tariffs on trucks. So if you are exporting trucks or truck parts, then you would pay a high tariff. So therefore it would be definitely worthwhile to check into the free trade agreement rules of origin and make sure that you comply so that you don't pay the 25% tariff. So this is something I wanted to share with you. Also look at the tariff payable on your product before doing anything else, you might be surprised. On the next slide, and also what I wanted to say on the previous slide was that to get the, to claim the free trade agreement preferential tariff is not an obligation. Your goods, you could be selling Canadian products in the US or elsewhere, and they don't have to be clear customs as Kusma goods. They can be clear customs as Canadian goods, not complying with Kusma and pay the tariff. So this is what I wanted to illustrate here with the previous slide. On this slide, I want to talk to you very briefly on the documentation involved, just taking a step back. We're talking about highly technical issues, the rules of origin, the certificate of origin. This is quite complex. So taking a step back, I just want to touch on the basic documents that is the most important document that we issue when we do business internationally, when we export, it's the commercial invoice. And I wanted to briefly talk about the difference between a commercial invoice and a pro forma invoice just for your information, because I know when I give trainings to companies, I know these sorts of questions come up on a regular basis. So basically the difference is that the commercial invoice is used or issued when there's a sale, and IE when there's going to be a payment, whereas a pro forma invoice is used when we are not expecting a payment. For example, we're sending samples we're sending replacement goods due to a warranty or we're sending goods for repairs or we're sending goods on the temporary basis for a trade show. So this is, you see, these are the two types of invoices that we'll be issuing. Sometimes a pro forma invoice is issued ahead of time because the customer wants it. The customer overseas might ask you for pro forma invoice ahead of time in order to apply for that of credit, in order to apply for an import license. And then when you ship the goods, you will issue the actual commercial invoice. So just to touch on this, because I know for some companies, it's not clear what the difference is between the two and when to use them. And so the moral to the story here is remember when you export, customers always need an invoice of some sort that will show who is the seller, what is the product, where is the origin, what is the value or what are the values, et cetera, et cetera. Now, another point that you have to show on your invoices when you export and that takes us to the next slide is the incoterm that's applicable to the transaction. So incoterms, for those of you who are familiar with incoterms, you'll recognize them. There's seven multimodal incoterms on the left side. There's four maritime incoterms on the right side. Those of you who are not familiar with incoterms, the next slide will show you briefly what they are. There are rules that define the division of responsibilities as far as delivering material, delivering goods, shipping goods, who pays for what, who arranges what in the context of a delivery of a shipment. So these are international rules. They're issued by the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris, they were updated last year, the new version that we use today is the 2020 version. I give trainings on incoterms to companies on a regular basis and I know that many companies don't know them well enough, even experienced traders sometimes don't know them that well, we'll use only a few or we'll only know the ones that we were told to use when we started our job. That's the kind of thing that happens. Our companies always use the same, not necessarily knowing them that well and maybe not using the best ones. So take the time, if you do international business, if you export and using free trade agreements or not, you have to master, you have to know the incoterms well. That's, it's a question of cost management. It's a question of customs compliance. And so I would encourage you, if you're not familiar with them, I encourage you to dig into that topic of the incoterms. It's not so important for the US and we'll talk about it in a moment, but for international business, if you're dealing with Asia, Europe, Latin America, you have to know the incoterms well, whether you're an exporter or an importer. Now, on this topic of incoterms, they define the division of cost and risks between seller and buyer. Now, the cost we can understand, we can relate to money, right? Who pays for what? Risks. So on the next slide, I will show you what the division of risks means in the context of an international transaction and where the incoterms come from. The division of risk between seller and buyer is basically what's going to tell us if something like this happens, if the goods are stolen or lost or damaged, whose problem is it or whose loss is it? Is it the seller's loss or is it the buyer's loss? That's what the incoterms will define as well, not just the question of cost, but also risks. And so that is why it's very important to be familiar with incoterms. I would say, particularly when we're on the importing side, it is very tricky sometimes. The thing to remember, and if you don't already know this, make a note of that, out of the 11 incoterms, it's four incoterms where the transfer of risk is not logical. It's counter-induitive, meaning that there's four incoterms, and that's the one that I mentioned on the screen here, CFR, CIF, CPT, CIP. Even though the seller arranges the shipping and pays for the shipping costs, the goods travel at the buyer's risk as soon as they leave the country of departure, as soon as they leave the country of origin. So that is a very tricky, potentially dangerous fact, but that's how it is. That's how these incoterms are. And so it's very important, it's fundamental to know about that. Excuse me, to know this well, and particularly if you're on the importing side. I think if you're on the exporting side, it might not be as tricky, but it still has an impact. So keep that in mind and look into it if you're not already familiar with this. And that takes us to the next slide, which we will in fact skip entirely because we're running out of time. If there's questions about the evergreen ship that I had on my previous slide, the blockage of the Suez Canal for one week last March and the impact on exporters and importers on our supply chain, I can share a link to an article with Ghana and she can send it to those of you who are interested in it. Now, speaking of incoterms, I said a moment ago, it's fundamental to know the incoterms well when you do business internationally. Now, when you do business with the US, it's a little different. And so it's not, I have a dangerous sign at the bottom. It doesn't mean that it's dangerous to deal with the US. No, no, no, no, especially yes. What I mean, what I want to say here is that even though the world uses the international incoterms, which I just mentioned earlier, there's 11 of them, they're very clear and they're recognized and used all over the world, including in the US. But the US has something a little bit different and which is unique to them. They have something called the UCC, the Uniform Commercial Code. And so sometimes when you deal with companies with small companies in the US or companies that don't do much international business, they tend to not know the incoterms, they tend to know only the American terms, the UCC terms, which we can call also the domestic terms. So keep that in mind. It's only dangerous in a sense that they sound like they are incoterms, but they are not. You see in the American terms, there's six FOBs which are completely different from the international FOB. So the key here is on the next slide is let's make sure that when we deal with customers or suppliers in the US that we don't, that there's nothing lost in translation and that we understand each other as to the responsibilities of seller and buyer are. And so to have to give you a brief equivalency, here you see one of the American terms that is used often is FOB origin. It's equivalent to the FCA International Incoterm. And the one that's used the most often in the US or with our exports to the US, I would say at least 90% of cases, it's FOB destination. And that is the equivalent in international incoterms is DDP. That takes us to the next slide where I want to tell you and I want to link again with the incoterms in a different way. So yes, the world can be divided in two areas, the US, which takes about three quarters of our exports where we have to continue to nurture and consolidate, of course, because it's so important to us. And then there's the rest of the world, 25%, the balance of 25% is where we would like to expand, where we would like to diversify so that we depends less on the US. I took the 2019 figures because I think most of us want to forget 2020. So generally speaking, three quarters of our exports go to the US. Now, what is the link with the incoterms and what is the link with documentation? Well, what happens here is that you see, we do such a huge business in the US with the US that is extremely important. And we'll have actually, we'll have a presentation on how to get into the US from Pacific Customs workers in a moment. But it's important to realize the difference between the two and the difference is that dealing with the US is relatively easy, so to speak. When you deal with the rest of the world, then of course it's very different. So you really have to be prepared for that. You really have to find out what does it involve in terms of export documentation, export declaration, export permits, and of course, and the diversity of requirements in all the countries that you're going to be exporting to. So I would say exporting to the rest of the world is really taking exports to another level and it really needs, you need to spend time and learn and find out what does it involve so that you are successful and don't run into difficulties at some point because you don't know the rules enough. So it's really a different process and it needs preparation for that. And so on the next slide, I want to make the link with the input terms I just mentioned and I wanted to divide the world in two categories in a different way. And then now I'd like to talk about it a little bit more about from a strategic point of view. And yes, one key element to keep in mind here when we export is that in the US, we can sell DDP, which is equivalent to FOB destination, which means that we, the Canadian exporter, become the importer of record in the US. We can sell directly to end users. We can sell directly to supermarket chains or whatever. We don't need to have an importer. We can be the importer of record for customs purposes. Now that's very demanding because it puts all the compliance requirements on our shoulders as a Canadian exporter, but it's also rewarding because it's a great way to be competitive and to enter a market. So what I want to say here briefly is that when we export to, for example, the European Union and take advantage of the CETA free to agreement, we can also work this way, working in DDP and becoming the importer of record in the European Union. It is possible. It's not possible to do that in most countries around the world. So in most other countries around the world, you cannot sell DDP. You cannot be a non-resident importer. And so your strategy will be different. You'll have less responsibilities because you will deal with the importers who will be then responsible for compliance in their country. So that's the little strategic important point I wanted to mention, keep that in mind when you enter, for example, or you want to enter the European market and take advantage of the CETA free to agreement, you can do, we can work in Europe just like we do in the US becoming a non-resident importer. And it's a great way to enter a new market and deal with customers directly. On the next slide, I have just two very brief points that I'm done. I want to tell you, remind you that there is something called the direct shipment rule in a free trade agreement. So what that means is that in order to benefit from the free trade agreement, your products have to be shipped directly between the two countries. And I wanted to illustrate this and illustrate its importance by sharing a personal experience with you just for your information so that this can be more concrete. I bought a lamp at a shop called Arefko, a very fine shop, which I hope still exists. And I bought a fine lamp from Germany. But the store, when the store brings lamps, these lamps from Germany, even though they should not pay customs duties, they should not pay tariffs on them and unfortunately they do. So that makes the lamps more expensive. Why? Because the German company does not ship its lamps directly to Canada. It ships them to a distribution center in the US. And then from the US, they distribute to shops across the United States and Canada. And why do they do that is because the Canadian market is too small for them to ship directly to Canada. A long story to say to confirm that to get the benefit of the free trade agreement, your goods have to be shipped directly. So let's say if you have a stock, if you have stock in the US and you have a new customer in Singapore, you can't ship the product to Singapore from your US stock, from your US distribution center because then you lose the benefit of the Canada of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement, same when you're dealing with Europe. And that takes me to the last slide. And I hope we've been able to catch up a little bit of time. What I want to share with you here is simple. If you've heard, if you ever heard about anti-dumping and countervailing duties, you might say, what does that have to do with free trade agreements? As you know under anti-dumping and countervailing duties, countries can increase tariffs, can add special anti-dumping duties on certain products and that makes them more expensive. What does that have to do with free trade agreements? Well, what I want to share with you is the fact that when we have a free trade agreement with a country or a group of country, it does not mean that there won't be anti-dumping duties. So that's the thing to keep in mind. For example, we have a company in Winnipeg that started a complaint on furniture originating in China and Vietnam that was undercutting the Canadian market. That's the company palace or furniture in Winnipeg. And after doing an investigation, CBS determined that, yes, we should be applying anti-dumping duties on these furniture coming from China and Vietnam. And so the moral to the story here is that although we have a free trade agreement with Vietnam because Vietnam is part of the trans-specific partnership, it does not mean that we won't have anti-dumping duties on goods occasionally. So it's something when we're doing exporting and as well, particularly when we're doing importing, it's something we have to be aware of and become familiar with. Anti-dumping duties can apply. We have anti-dumping duties on US potatoes and on US Jeeprock and on European sugar, for example. So keep this in mind, inform yourself about anti-dumping and countervailing duties when we do importing and exporting. And that takes me to the end of my presentation. I thank you very much for your attention. I'm sorry I had to rush a little bit, but it's because we know your time is precious and we wanted to catch up on time a little bit. I'll be happy to exchange with you at the end during the Q&A and I'll pass the microphone to my friends at Pacific Customs Broker now. Thank you very much for your attention and talk to you soon in the Q&A. Thanks, Christian. So Brianna, over to you for the top five considerations for exporting to the US. Thank you for your time. We are gonna quickly go through these, but I wanted to touch with you on what the top five things you're gonna wanna consider when coming through. So first, next slide. So the very first consideration as we've gone through in this presentation is gonna be your classification. The classification of your product really is the foundation of your import or export into the US. It's gonna determine your rate of duty. It's going to determine your reporting requirements. So what additional information you may have to provide on that product. It will determine what partner government oversight you're gonna have on your goods. There are many, many US government agencies and there are a number of which that are involved in trade with the US. And so, for instance, if you're importing produce, not only will you have to meet the US customs requirements, but you'll also have to meet FDA or USDA requirements as well. And those are flagged based on the classification that you're using. Classification also can determine your free trade eligibility and how your product applies. And if you're looking at products that are coming in that may be subject to quota, such as sugar, peanuts, products like that, you may have additional requirements that are gonna be based on that classification. And the duties, depending on that classification, especially in terms of quota, is definitely gonna be impact. Just, we can't stress this enough that inaccurate classification can lead to the over underpayment of duties. It can lead to inaccurate reporting, which as a result can lead to penalty seizures and revocation of importing privileges. Next slide. The second is country of origin. Country of origin simply is the least produced of the product so the raw of the product, the easier it is to determine origin. When you start to get into different levels of processing, manufacturing, multiple components that may be sourced from around the world, that may impact your country of origin and may impact your free trade eligibility. So those two things, your country of origin and your classification really are gonna be what determines what free trade agreement you may be eligible for. The US has many free trade agreements and it also, as was referenced, it may determine whether the good may be subject to anti-dumping. So those two top things, you wanna make sure that you really have a strong focus on those and that you have them right because they are the foundational pieces for you. Next slide. Creation is valuation. Valuation is a very important component. There are six methods of valuation into the US. The first one is, in some cases, the easiest one is if you're selling goods into the US, you're gonna use that method one and your valuation is gonna be the price paid or payable as well as maybe any additional consideration. So if there's an assist, if you supply to component for manufacturing, that could impact your valuation. When goods come in unsold, maybe they're coming in for further manufacturing or they're coming into, if anyone's an Amazon seller out there and you're using a fulfillment center and the goods are coming in unsold, then you're gonna start to look at those other methods of valuation to determine how to value your goods. Next slide. And the fourth consideration is your documentation. Incomplete documents can lead to major delays, refusal of goods, penalties. So the best way to avoid this is to ensure that all your reporting requirements are present. So depending on what your classification is, you may have to provide additional information on your documentation. You want to make sure that you're viewing frequently for accuracy. Often we see companies will complete one template and they'll let that run for a few years and things have changed. They have a different supplier. The country of origin has changed. The reporting requirements have changed. Maybe the description of goods have changed. So you want to make sure that your descriptions or as detailed as possible, this is really gonna help you when those goods come across the border into the US Board of Entry. And you want to make sure that you have all your information on there. Important thing to note is that the US has a five-year record-keeping requirement. So all documents and records surrounding your export to the US must be kept for five years from the date of import and they must be readily available for US customs if and when requested. We see a lot of requests after the fact. So even if your goods move slowly through and the sales done and you've moved on with your business ventures, it is not uncommon not to see a request from customs, especially if you're claiming a free trade agreement, two years, a year down the road. So you want to make sure that you have those handy and you have that substantiating documents, whether it's your freight bills or anything that was involved in that transaction. You want to make sure that you keep that on file in a systematic way and have it available. Next slide. And free trade agreements is that this consideration. As noted, the US has many free trade agreements. They hold 14 free trade agreements with 20 different countries at the moment. Each free trade has its own set of criteria for eligibility. So they're not all created or drafted the same. And so in some cases you may have to provide a certificate of origin. In other cases, they may want you to have other proof on file. So you want to make sure that if you're claiming a free trade agreement that you have that firm proof of eligibility and that also should be included in your record keeping in that five year period for that transaction. And as noted earlier, there's many of those free trade agreements require a direct shipment component. That is one commonality between the 14. But even if you're importing a good that may be duty free, you still could be subject to other taxes and fees on top of that duty. So even if it's a zero rate for the Advlarum or the base duty rate, you could still see some additional savings when importing into the US on those other taxes and fees. Cause most of the time those are waived under the free trade agreement. So when you're looking at filing a free trade agreement, considerations just specific to this is make sure you have that proof. Make sure that you know, you have a good firm standing on what your country of origin is, if it met rules of origin, the classification and make sure that it's meeting all those requirements. And those are the top five. We went through those quickly because we know we're getting short on time and I wanted to be able to give glorious in time. Thank you, Brianna. Thanks a lot for your concise presentation. So now let's move to Gloria's presentation on the importing procedures into Canada. Gloria, the floor is yours. Thank you very much, Ghana. If we can move to the next slide and the next one. So I'm just, I'm gonna touch base on import procedures into Canada and some of the customs and trade compliance tips that we find importers really need to be aware of when they start importing or even when they're reviewing their importing processes. So the first point is that the importer of record is ultimately responsible for compliance with all of the regulations for the goods that they're importing even when you're using a service provider. So the first thing that you need to do is do your research to understand your obligations before you purchase something. One of the things that we find happens is someone finds something really cool online or they have a supplier that they has offered them something. They buy it, they have it shipped only to find out that the product's not allowed in or they need an additional certification. I once had six pallets of blueberries destroyed because of a lack of a phytosanitary certificate. And we've also had engines that haven't been allowed in because they don't meet the Canadian EPA standards. So it's really important to do your research and understand your obligations. Also, create an internal compliance checklist to ensure the accuracy of your customs entries. Have a key point indicators or key productivity indicators have a checklist where somebody will spot check your entries to make sure that everything's correct. Also, when you get additional information from your suppliers, make sure that you've checked your entry. When I say additional information, something like your suppliers said in an email saying, oh, the country of origin of this product, it's actually made in China, not the United States. You are obligated to make the correction to the country of origin. So anytime you find out something that is incorrect with your customs entries, you have to have a correction filed and your service provider can do that for you. Another tip is to make sure to cross-reference your imports by the customs broker's transaction number. When the Canada Border Services Agency reaches out for information, they're gonna send you a request or information that says, please send us XYZ information about this customs transaction number. If you don't have your internal records cross-reference by that, you'll need to reach out to your service provider, your customs broker for that information. So if you aren't doing that today and you already import, I highly recommend incorporating that into your record keeping practices so that you can swiftly respond to CBSA's requests. We can just go to the next slide. I'm just gonna reiterate a few points about free trade agreements, just because this tends to come up fairly often. Just because something's purchased in a country doesn't mean it's made in that country. We're all here talking about importing and exporting goods. So when you purchase a good, someone asks what the country of origin is, make sure to double-check that it actually, the actual true country of manufacture of that item. And also, as it's been said a couple of times throughout this presentation, just because a good is manufactured in a country doesn't guarantee that it originates under a free trade agreement. Rules of origin are tricky and if you or your manufacturer doesn't understand them, you can hire a professional like a consultant or a customs broker to provide an opinion. You can also write for binding origin rulings from the appropriate government agencies. You can just go to the next slide. And we also have, as shown throughout the presentation, multiple free trade agreements. Using Mexico as an example, how would you pick whether you're going to use the CUSMA free trade agreement or the CPTPP free trade agreement? One, look at the direct shipment rules that have to be met. If your product is shipping, well, Mexico's sort of a bad example for CUSMA, but for CPTPP, if it's shipping through the United States and has entered into that country, you will be able to use CPTPP because it entered the commerce of the US. It's no longer directly shipping from Mexico. Also, the manufacturer of the good for manufactured goods should be able to confirm which free trade agreement rules of origin their product meets. If you ask them and they say, what are rules of origin, then you're not going to be able to have a proper certification done. And again, we recommend having a ruling or having a consultant provide an opinion. And also the certification requirements are specific to each free trade agreement. So if you have a CUSMA certificate, you can't use it for CPTPP. Next slide, please. Now I'm just going to look, talk a bit about the release process. We get questions from both new importers and experienced importers about how does this process work? There's a lot of moving parts in the customs release process. So the first part is that the buyer and seller negotiate the sale. Use your incoterms to determine who's going to be responsible for the transportation and the customs clearance of those goods into Canada. It's possible that your supplier may elect to be a non-resident importer and use the incoterm DDP. But once that's negotiated and you know who's arranging the transportation as well as who your customs broker is or who's going to be responsible for it, the seller, the vendor of the goods is going to ready the shipment for transport. They're going to prepare all of the documents that they need and they're going to send a copy of those to the carrier and hopefully to the customs broker as well. Next, the carrier is going to pick up their shipment and they're going to start, oh, back, thank you. They're going to pick up the shipment and they're going to start transporting the goods to Canada. They're the part that's going to make them available for customs clearance, be it by air, ocean, rail. And while they're en route or just before they start moving to Canada, they're going to follow their part of the customs clearance, which is the ACIE manifest request and generate a cargo control number. That cargo control number is sent to the customs broker. We're going to then, the customs broker is going to prepare and transmit the release request as well as sending any document images needed to the Canada Border Services Agency and any participating government agencies for their review. Document images that need to be clear and sent to those agencies are things like phytosanitary certificates and other certificates issued by other government agencies other than Canada. Next slide, please. So once the customs broker or service provider has transmitted the data and those images, the CBSA's computer systems are going to receive that request and if it identifies any participating government agencies that need to review the shipment, they will then forward the data to those participating government agencies. And there are nine different participating government agencies that regulate the import of goods into Canada. So it could actually go to multiple government agencies depending on what the product is. For example, a plant material might go to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency as well as Environment and Climate Change Control Canada for CITES review as well as Global Affairs Canada depend if it's something that needs quota. Once the participating government agency reviews the documentation, they return their decision to CBSA. If it is a rejection of the information provided and they want more detail, it'll go back to the start of the process and back to the customs broker for correction. If it's an acceptance of the data, the CBSA will then render their decision and return their accept message or reject, hopefully it's a accept it should be to the customs broker. Next, once the data has been accepted and that's a preliminary determination of the data as presented, the transportation company can proceed to the border or if it's something that's inland, the warehouse will send their warehouse arrival message and then customs will render their final decision. They will either release the goods and then they can be delivered to the consignee or they may elect to examine the goods. They examine the goods, they'll make sure that everything declared in the electronic data is the same as what's in the truck or the warehouse or the ocean container. Again, if there's anything in question, they will then refer the data back to the customs broker and the importer for correction before they'll release the goods. Once everything's corrected, the shipment will be released through customs and it can be delivered to the consignee and the consignee will receive the shipment. And that is a quick overview of the release process. Next. Thank you so much, Gloria. I assume it's the end of your presentation. Yes, it is. Oh, great. Thank you so much and thanks so much for all the panelists for all your very concise presentations and very interesting. We've been having so many questions coming into the Q&A box. So now we'll start answering some of them that you've been sending today during the presentation. So I've seen that there were already a couple of questions that were answered and so we'll go on with those that are still here and answered. And apologies if there are any questions that will remain outstanding. We'll make sure that we'll follow up after the presentation. So now I'll start reading the questions and I'll direct them to the panelists. So first question. How long does an advanced ruling typically take to obtain? And I think that Richard LePage has volunteered to answer that question. Richard from CVSA, do you want to take that question? I'm sorry, Ghana, it's Mike here. Richard had to excuse himself at two. I think he had another meeting to attend to. So I can answer it as well. So in Canada with respect to CVSA, we will issue rulings within 120 days of receipt of all necessary information to render a decision. Under the FTAs, it varies the number of days. For instance, under the CUSMA, the parties that agreed to issue rulings as expeditiously as possible, but in no case longer than 120 days. So is that helpful? Thank you, Mike. You're welcome. So another question, I think Christian wanted to answer another question on direct shipment rule. So I will just read out the question so that everyone knows what we are talking about. So for the direct shipment rule, does this include if the product does not leave the port? For example, en route to Vietnam from Canada, the container ship stops in another country port and transfers to a different ship than on to Vietnam. Right, so Ghana actually that then is still considered a direct shipment so long as the goods do not are not clear customs in the country of transit. Like a container ship, yes, would go to, if a container ship goes from Vancouver to Singapore and then the container is trans shipped in Singapore, put on a different ship into Vietnam, normally that is okay because the goods have not been clear customs, have not entered the commerce or the trade of the country, of the third country of the country of transit. So normally that would be okay in the case that you describe, but sometimes depending on the country of destination customs, sometimes make create difficulties. I have a case of a customer who is shipping goods from Eastern Canada to Peru under our free trade agreement with Peru and Peru viewing customs are causing a problem because or creating a problem because the goods were shipped, were trans shipped at a US port. So sometimes it can be problematic, it depends on the country, but strictly speaking, it should be fine, it should be okay. Thanks, Christian. And I think there is another question that might also be from your field of expertise. Would Korea be able to serve as importer if I don't have an importer number for US, Australia or Europe for DDP? Yeah, sometimes it can work this way depending on the value of the goods. Yes, if it's considered a low value shipment, it can be done this way, yes, but not always. Yeah, and I think we also have a question on the country of origin. So potentially Mike or Gloria Briana might answer that as well. How do we determine whether our manufactured item has been altered enough to be considered to have Canada as a country of origin? And I think Martin has covered that in his presentation, there is no straightforward answer, we'll need to look into it, but I'll leave it to Christian wants to answer it as well. So whoever wants to tackle that can go first. Yeah, so I don't want to go first because somebody else was volunteering, so we'll go ahead. I can lend to that answer. You have to review, you have to classify the goods first, possibly their components, so that you can review the rule of origin for the free trade agreement that you want to qualify it under. And from there, then you'll be able to determine if it qualifies under the free trade agreement that you're looking for. Yes, and also in complement to that, technically the way you do that is by with the HS code. So if your input and your output have a different HS code, that's basically how it works. I mean, it's a little bit more complex than that. And in reality, you have to look at it very closely, but that's the general principle. If your, when your product is manufactured, it means it's going to become a different product and that's going to be reflected with the HS code. And so if the HS code of your finished product is different from the HS code of your input of your raw materials, then that's usually okay. Let's say that's the usual way that you demonstrate it then. And that's where it's important for customers to know their HS codes. And we don't want you to become specialists of the HS code. You have customs brokers that will help you deal with that, but still it's your ultimate responsibility. So it's something important to look into. Thanks so much, Christian. Thanks, Gloria, for that. I think we have one more question and we'll be wrapping up the session. So I'll just read it loud here. And it pertains to the import of goods under the Kusma. So the question is, do the same duties apply if you import one particular product from Mexico or USA under Kusma? For example, a particular item made in Mexico has a distributor in Mexico and also in the US. Would it make a difference if I purchased from the US when it comes to importation duties? So long as your supplier can issue the Kusma certification it won't make a difference. Okay, great. Thank you, Gloria. So I see no further questions here and we are already out of time. So please make sure, make sure if you have any other questions you have our contact details or you will receive them in the follow-up email. And we'll also make sure that we follow up with you on your registration comments that you have submitted when registering for the webinar. So thank you to all of our speakers and thank you everyone for attending today's webinar. Everything you need to know about customs procedures under Canada's free trade agreements. So please keep your eyes open for the email with presentations and recording and contact information. And on behalf of BC government and all our speakers, thank you for joining us today and have a great rest of your day.