 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's up, Tom? How you doing? Hello friends This was originally gonna be a road show it's not a road show because I've got the Rona keeping me at home That's what's going on here. So Yeah, I've got real sick after coming back from adept con Uh Good stuff. Can't be happier about my overall experience I gotta say I'm thankful. I didn't have to sit in the car. You know three hours back or six hours back Exactly now that you're all COVID ridden. Yeah, keeping you keeping you healthy there. That's what I'm doing So at any rate also joining us take over Mars Craig. What's going on, buddy? How you doing? Oh, great glad to be here Thanks for having me back. I having you back. We're gonna talk about slanesh we're gonna keep this show relatively quick because um You know Sick And all of that kind of stuff, uh Nurgle trying to train wreck me here, but no no your your your good little games Will not keep me from slanesh uh So Uh at any rate, let's uh Let's get on to some news Go for it. Um, yeah Yeah, so, uh Let's talk room ranging. Yeah It's that thing There it is It is a necklace thing of some kind. It looks like Because those are all little shady pieces You can kind of see a little chains down at the bottom Yeah I assume it's hanging on something And we're just not seeing the rest of it. So I assume it's like a serif on thing Do you think it's upside down? Yeah, I do actually. Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's upside down Yep I could see that Um, do you think it's like a harness maybe for like a stegodon or something weird? I think it's just kind of like three pieces of accoutrements. They they whited everything else out on And then kind of hid the rest of it Yeah So, yeah It's fleshier Yeah It'd be nice to imagine Hey, look, maybe I've said that I think that's why they're delayed because they're gonna get the full remake That'd be amazing. I don't know. I mean the real question is is what are those symbols? That's the the the catch for me. I don't think there's any actual symbols there. They're just nails Are those nails? Okay. Yeah, they're just nails And then there's scratches in the end. So sure. I mean like I'll buy fec Yeah Yeah, I I could see it. I I really hope we're getting an expansion slash redesign of the range That's why the book is like so like so the last one and if so fantastic great a plus Yeah, yeah Be cool Be cool. All right. What else we got? Uh Golden demon. I mean we had a deptcon this week, right? Like that was a deptcon this week It was a big deal. Most of everything that was in the reveal show. We already talked about last wednesday Yeah, tom. Obviously you weren't on that show. I had adam and john To help me out with that But uh, was there anything in particular that you saw that made you excited more unexcited craig same question for you The raptor writers that's freaking cool. Like That alone like I could buy some dinosaurs. Okay, okay You know, I I'm excited that they decided to release a new army. Uh, it looks interesting. Um, We continue the joke It's it's stunning. That's what I would say But uh as for me like there wasn't any like The city stuff made me excited like more the addition of that book to the schedule Right because that hadn't been there um In that in that space and so that was a big deal to me Was just where that was sitting um The the choice of oc arc and soul light as the two releases For death surprised me Not in a not in a bad way necessarily but just it was if it was a curious Um consequence of like obviously it says like fec is going to be much much bigger, right? um Yeah, I mean those are the things that jumped out to me was the new uh, the new city stuff excited me It means that we could potentially do that for havoc this year. Um, could be interesting. Um, but uh, yeah, uh Looks exciting. Okay, cool stuff Obviously the other thing at adept con was some golden demon. Congratulations to all the winners there. Good stuff I I pulled a few images Of some people's who stuff I really really really liked and thought was fantastic Just a quick little glance here. Um, alexandra dos sentos first up alex Uh, this piece is incredible. You got to see this thing in person. It's like wild. This is so wild Uh This one was the gold in my heart I'll say that straight out like the cloak on this you have to understand is all done in that like Sort of chinese pencil art like the whole thing is this beautiful scenic landscape It's incredible It's not just the cloak though. I mean like everything on its top notch But this piece really stood out to me this jacati con thought it was exceptional absolutely exceptional Uh, this was ivan ivan is a patron and a student And someone who I helped uh with this model, I guess it was like coached advised on this model over the past several months They say all the work is him. I have no I'm taking zero percent of any credit He did all this incredible work and he earned the gold in this vehicle category and it was well-earned his attention to detail his his Execution here was top notch and I really love this piece and seeing in person. It's incredible. It's incredible So well done Uh, and then last up I want to give a shout out to one of the young bloods I happen to Know this kid. He's a watcher of the show might be watching right now. I don't know But he happens to he happens to actually like live in town here and I used to uh, ironically work With his mom though. We didn't realize all that until we ran into each other this weekend And uh This kid put this incredible piece together and took the gold and young bloods. I mean it was It's amazing and well-earned like this thing rules Uh, so way to go evan and uh, everybody else with those were those were just, you know, a few of my favorites I'm sure that uh Everybody else and all the rest of them were all so cool. So there you go I have to give uh, I have to give a shout out by the way um To the teams event best overall actually got taken by uh actual trash Um, which was uh, which is my like home lexington's books Um, so the folks that when I uh, when I roll some dice here in lexington That's who I play with so kudos to you all for uh for bringing home some hardware Um, I couldn't be there this year, but I feel uh, you know felt proud that the lexington crowd brought it home Very nice. Congratulations to them Yeah, overall it was a very fun. It was a very fun weekend. That's for sure Um, I think you play you've played clay before he brought um in the champs He brought best scaven home. Um, uh He's been playing scaven religiously for the last couple years and did been doing great with him and then uh My other friend erin brought best fec home this year. Um, first championship. So that's often the lexington lexington group Very cool. All right well Hey, tell you what folks, uh, as I don't know how long this show will be until I drop dead Uh, why don't you hit like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna actually do that. I'm not that sick though. I I feel like crap. I just know that bad um Hit like do all those fun things. Anyways, let's get To some pick of the week craig What was drink hammer chuck more? You drink hammer just he needs more views people. He's great his last podcast with neil they're talking about Obviously work out stuff in the beginning, but uh the home little event that they did over the weekend look like a lot of fun Yeah, I think everybody should go check them out. That's fantastic. Yes. I agree. It looks like a really fun event They were doing I bet I wouldn't have got sick there. Uh I'll bet you wouldn't have gotten sick. Yeah uh tom uh Actually, um our old friend uh doom and darkness uh recently put out a video He's been putting out a lot of videos. He has been putting out a lot of videos. Um, uh, and You know, I'm just gonna I'm not gonna pick anything specifically I'm just gonna sprup his stuff if you're not familiar with doom and darkness. You need to go check him out I agree. Um, he's just always an enjoyable listen Uh, and then lastly for myself if you're watching this week and you wish Hope upon hope, but why a wyvens? Why are you not doing corn first blood for the blood god? I love corn I just wanted to to relish in the murder. Don't worry. We'll get to corn next week, but until then You can watch uh the corn review on aos coaches channel at the link down below in the description with our good buddy garith, uh, who is a another excellent corn player and who has lots of great opinions and thoughts and uh It can give you lots of insight on the new book. So Uh, there you go Well, let's talk about some hobby time then Craig, what are you been working on buddy? Uh, I got another glutos. I'm working on I finished up 10 demonettes and then accidentally hit him with some primer. So I gotta restart those But uh, we're gonna focus on glutos for now Okay, okay very nice very nice Uh, you know funny thing. I'll just say a quick aside here As I've been ill time moves completely differently Like I looked up at the clock and this is like I am I'm interested to see where this is going people I looked up at the clock to mark a time stamp and I was like we have to have been going for like 15 20 minutes already and it was just ticked over to 10 minutes and I was like Everything moves so slow All right, anyways Tom what are you been working on buddy? Uh This sounds ridiculous, but my basement like I sure I've been covered in cement dust like I'm cleaning cement dust off of everything right now Sure, but my but my basement's waterproof. So that's what matters. So the hard part is done and moving into uh Preparing the the play area Yeah, you know fun stuff. That sounds super fun Uh for myself, I uh I would really like to have had some hobby time. I'm super jazzed To hobby more excited to hobby than I've been in a long long time Uh, but uh, sadly, it's not really in the cards at the moment Um, but I will tell you I have a lot of new and exciting things that I picked up from Adept Con that I'm super thrilled to be working on We're gonna do some stuff with a lot of really fun figs at the moment though I've got this little guy right here There he is Oh, that's uh, that is the ranger from uh, miniac Uh, and we're gonna be we're gonna be giving him some paint. He's gonna be a fun little Fun little boy So there you go Uh, but that'll hopefully be like this weekend when I'm able to come back down here and Stay here for a while and paint. So there you go Okay, well with that now Gentlemen Shall we talk about slanish? Everybody ready? Everybody ready to party? So ready Okay, so party time slanish. Hey, you know just a quick question Why isn't there more like party stuff in this book like that's a real question Why don't they make you want a party more Like rebels like how awesome would it be if like you chose a rebel like a stance right or something like everybody like This is the beat box time Yeah, this is what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly like it seems like there's really They're missing a trick here. Everything's got to be so Uh, everything's gotta be so serious and I'm just saying if some of these units just started a dance party wherever they went That would be pretty amazing to me Uh, so anyway, I think the only one that dances is the mask But there's a whole like section in the book talking about how they make masquerade balls with the on the battlefield. So I don't Yeah, they just don't know how to look I like four up You can't pile in because you're dancing They don't know how to write this home Okay, that's the take home point the high level Overview of the overview is they don't know what to do with this tone. They the rules writers Do not understand this material And what it is and what it should be and what it means thematically Like that's the bottom line When I read this there is a just general misalignment between the rules writers and their understanding of how what should be in a book and And and like the idea of what slanesh is It's that simple. We have a misalignment here Okay And that's gonna haunt us throughout this That's what it comes down to This is like somebody this feels like somebody aping and imagining what they think Slanesh is like with a very sort of simplistic outsider view of the thing Sure Not like somebody who really knows the touch and the feel Of the army Oh, yeah Get into it at any rate Okay Overview still a fiddly johnny book relying on synergies and careful play to achieve victory. It's probably pretty johnny spike right now Uh and absolutely as as is most things in aos Well, it tends to sit in this sort of spot. It's just this this book has really almost all the timmy has been banished out of it completely um It's like johnny spike. I can't decide if I would actually put it in the middle area or Just move it to the right of the johnny area. I don't know Anyways, which is funny because it doesn't have that much synergy, but everything you have relies on synergies So you have to rely on like a limited synergies. That's the plan Units are often fragile and will die easily though. There are a few solid anvils now This will change rapidly if you are allowed to build depravity Uh much more role-based distinctions though still some misses They have one of the worst base allegiance abilities in the game It looks fun People think that this is fun You will change your minds You will see time Will work its its awful work upon you And you will see that I am right And this is the worst allegiance ability that's been printed. I can't wait. Wow That's a 3.0 in 3.0. That is a bold statement. I stand behind it being the worst allegiance ability in 3.0 Didn't push the battle still live in 3.0 this game got a 3.0 book I think pushed in a battle still worse you talking about the fact that the little thingies have to get pushed the little Yeah, that's not an allegiance ability. That's a yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's Yeah, I heard you say rule for it and sorry. Yeah Yeah, allegiance. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's yeah, just allegiance ability and then Uh Summoning has been largely curtailed You'll want the base abilities anyways you like but hey if your opponent's really bad you can have both Um Do any of the aos demon armies aligned to timmy Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, absolutely like nergal leans in there a little it's got some it's got a little bit of that in the mix We talked about that a little bit, but come back next week and we'll talk even more about it Yes Now come back next week for the timmy johnny book um All right, so i'm gonna pause here anything. I missed in the overview. What do you what do you I obviously Uh craig i'm gonna go to you first Yeah, no, uh, play in my two games. Uh, oh a few games this this feels on point. I i'm not as Down on the allegiance ability as you but I I do agree. It's probably one of the worst hands down, but Just a couple quick comments real quick here. Justin slone obr takes the worst allegiance ability Justin you need to listen to what I said I said worst allegiance ability in 3.0. That is not a 3.0 allegiance ability if you explain it out I would agree with you But fortunately you don't qualify You get will be arguments in new books soon anyways. Yeah, uh, yeah, so there you go Keep going. No, it's just I think it's enjoyable from a thematic point and that's why I like it a little But that's really the only thing that's holding it up for me It's what draws everybody in on first read Uh, that new allegiance ability which we're going to talk about a lot Feels fun and cool and different and interesting Oh, it's so different. It's so cool. It's a temptation, man. It's so metal, man Is my response to that. Okay. No, it's bad. It's just bad browbeat was bad when it was a card printed in Two it was a bad. It's a bad magic card. It's a bad ability on allegiance ability 21 years later. Go ahead No, yeah, no, I mean I'm Attica like it. That's all Out in practice. It was thematically. You're right. Like theme wise flavor wise. It works Execution wise it does not Yeah But uh and summoning I think my lord just got rid of it, but it's fine. It's there Yeah, but that's yeah That's it. You you hit it all pretty much. All right. Good. I'm glad to hear it. Let's get into it. Let's talk about temptations Uh, I'm not talking about the singing group No, we're talking about the temptations of Sinesh. I wish I was talking about the singing group I'd have a lot to say there Fantastic fantastic We'd take a bird walk real fast and Sure Get my get my stream demonetized instantly Uh, okay So let's talk about temptations of Sinesh. We don't want to lay down The base rule here first. Let's all just get on the same page Make sure we all understand what we're talking about before I take this thing to the cleaners Here we go Okay Yep, uh At the start of each battle round after determining who will take the first turn not that it matters. It's just a point in time You gain a pool of six dice These are your temptation dice Each time your opponent makes a failed hit roll a failed wound roll or a failed save roll You can offer them a temptation dice if they accept your offer that role is replaced with a six Roles who have placed in this way cannot be re-rolled or modified Remember that the success or failure of a hit roll wound roll save roll is determined after re-rolls and modifiers Each time your opponent accepts your offer of a temptation dice you gain d6 to pravity points That should basically never happen If your opponent accepts the dice then Either you're in a very corner case situation or you're dealing with a new opponent who does not yet done the math Each time your opponent rejects your offer of a temptation dice the unit for which the roll was made Suffers d3 mortal wounds after all of the attacks have been resolved You cannot offer Your opponent a temptation dice for the same enemy unit more than once per phase. So one unit per So each enemy unit Once per phase The end of the battle round any temptation dice that have not been offered our loss So over the course of the game five battle rounds you will get 30 temptation dice You can offer out 30 assuming there's that many fights over the course the game Which there will be there just is it's very easy to make this happen. Okay uh and If you even have like two units fighting over the course of a battle round You can basically like just to say two of your units and two of their units You can you know almost completely get it done just on that, but if you have more it gets even easier So at any rate, uh, remember you don't need a hero or anything uh Anywhere near them To make this happen. It's just they they're doing it which I just want to point out for team games is very funny Like this is the actual purpose You have double the uh double the Yeah, well if you yes, correct What I mean by that is like if you're doing a partner's game like a team game Yeah, you can just start offering it on all your opponents on all your your teammates fighting your opponents stuff Hey, hey, would you like some Extra hits against my partner So it's funny. That is funny It is nothing to do with your people It is it is remarkably seem like That's my first thought when I read that I was like that was like the fate dice Well, so it's it's but for that it's cool like in teams It's gonna have to get uh like a rotted Because what that means is that they auto six and you get a free extra d6 depravity Like that's just a non-starter. I mean it's exactly what else would you do with it? Who cares? It's a fight I don't need any of my units near you normally like that is a I have to be in a fight There has to be some fight going on a hit or wound, but it's not like I need a particular unit I don't know. I can I can have all my heroes are dead. I'm still offering you six dice because I the player am doing this weirdly Yeah, I the player. This is the reason number one why I hate this mechanic. Why am I the player involved in this? And why are you the player involved in this? Everybody else's mechanics just do stuff with their armies Why am I involved in this weird game show? Uh that I have to now host Do you want to be tempted? Okay, we'll talk about other problems I have with if you'll remember This is a lot like the like it reminds me obviously It's not the same but of the dice game with like the dice game for negation all that Um just because it's like it's out of game interaction Right, uh that said Uh, I don't know. I'll let you finish and then we'll we get sure sure I like what travis says here because he's got exactly the wrong idea. Let me explain Travis said so I like this for playing new people because I could use this as a lever to make the game more fun for my opponents Travis it will do the exact opposite When you offer this to them Sure, I guess if you offer this on like their most powerful attacks And hits and wounds and you really want to be like the best stand-up guy And they come in with their big six damage sword and they they duff a wound roll and you be like, hey Why don't you go ahead and wound with that and just kill me like if you If you really want to just get murdered then yeah, you can pick all their strongest attacks and make them hit And wound and give them all saves against your best attacks and so on and so forth Right and that's fine But what'll actually happen if they take all of that stuff where you're supposed where you should offer it with your Common sense would be on whatever their weakest attacks are Okay Like for example, let's say you're fighting some mangler squig loon boss on mangler squig You offered it on the big balls and change the chompy jaws No No, you're not You're gonna offer it on them goblins poking stick Right And then they're gonna say yes And then you're gonna get d6 depravity new players will say yes to all of it because they don't want to suffer the wounds Everybody fears that 30 d3 mortal wounds. Yes indeed so many so many potential wounds and It seems like a lot you're better off just taking them Because this army will fall apart without depravity It would just fall apart But if you keep taking them and you keep giving a d6 depravity Real fast this army will become tough as nails and murder everything. It gets like it ramps When your entire army is neg one to hit on top of their normal bonuses When your entire army has a five up save and becomes nergal in addition to that And when your entire army is just kicking bonus mortals on every attack It is a completely different force Than what you're dealing with base Yeah And like when used to let somebody ramp to 36 this army just becomes hard as a coffin nail It's shocking the difference Uh, so like, uh, isn't 30 d3 mortals over the course of the game a lot I don't know ask like teclis and seraphon players who've been doing it for a long time. See what they think They seem okay with it So but let's I want to get into why this is bad. Okay Let's make this real As I've said already you don't need any particular kind of unit anywhere near them to To make this offer It's a browbeat effect. So you have to assume it will always work in the worst version Okay but The problem with that concept Is That it also requires your opponent to be aware and be able to do that math problem Yeah And understand the implications of that math problem Correct And let's talk about when it happens tom in your head right now I would like you to go ahead and imagine you're rolling to hit and rolling to like like do this do it in front of me Okay, like right now go. I'm gonna roll to hit I roll to hit Okay, what do you do then? Check out the messes right my messes. Yeah got these roll again. You roll through them, right? It's a thing. Yeah, okay. Yeah Okay, now instead I have to be there constantly watching you like a hawk being like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait Stop touching your dice. Stop picking up your dice. Let me break up your flow And interrupt this we interrupt this perfectly fast smooth rolling for me to give you a math problem Okay Stop rolling start mathing. That's what I say So Funny story. You say that you know what it reminds me of Not to make another magic reference, right? Sure, but it reminds me of Like all of the trigger like do you pay for that? Do you pay for that? Yes? Oh, yeah Welcome to wrist deck. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like a risk study or whatever. You're like do you pay like here's a dice Paying the one You know, yeah, maybe that's why I'm not so hard on it because I played mystic aurora Yeah, nobody pays the four mr. Gamora's just free cards. Um Okay at any rate now you can I'm gonna help you out here Okay Yeah, because There should never be this kind of interruptions in the middle of a sequence constantly Throughout the game stop. How many hits did you have stop rolling stop? Would you like one more hit now do a math problem? Is it worth it to you to take d3 mortal wounds to this unit that we're talking about here in this case? Or is it worth it to me for you to say get one more hit and Get d6 and I get d6 depravity how close am I to the other How close am I to the the next tier how close am I just summoning something? Both players are having to do math problems, right? Yeah, right because you as a slinnish buyer need to know what you're offering them And and when it's going to be the best time to offer a dice And they need to know when the best time is to say no to a dice Correct. You do not offer during the wound of a vermin lord corruptor. That's that's for sure Yes, you also need to know do they trigger anything special and hits or wounds of sixes So you can only offer it on the things where you don't trigger anything special. Yeah, yeah, right. It's like I see people saying this and I see like I just Being a casual narrative player. I love the interaction I guess if you just want to not think if any kind of economic terms and just start throwing dice at them on Whatever attacks you want and they'll just start taking them randomly Or not. I mean the right answer is you throw it at them on saves But that's not what it's going to happen. I know I always wanted on hits and wounds I always wanted on hits that's your preeminent thing you can offer it on sure because that doesn't necessarily translate Right that presents them with the the most likelihood to go No Okay Now If they take the die Right now if you if you if you if you want it on like A save that will keep them alive. That's when they will take it If the only time you would take the die is if it would literally kill the unit Right. Yeah. Yeah because It's it's it like one wound left and you need that hero alive. So you take the die Okay No, because and chris said or do you offer it on special hits or if using the die become super hard to turn down? No, because to the opponent Like i'm here the economics of this is that you should always turn it down Turn it down Yes, okay, just because it's too it's too advantageous to this one. I cannot explain this hard enough Look folks if you want to win against this army Turn this die down This isn't hard Everybody trying to construct the reasons why people will take the die Blank it say no Like i'm just i'm not trying to construct nancy reagan's policy here Okay But if you want to beat this army just turn it all down They can't it 33 more wounds sounds like a lot until you realize that's deep into the late game and they have to spread it out Very thin only but it's only a these extra gravity bands It's just so tempting. Exactly like always Turn it down Okay, like the only time you don't is if You should Is if like accepting the save is going to keep your hero alive and you need that hero to give some buff to like win the game Uh in game as well. That's also the phrase that you should be yelling The selenash, uh, you know army to turn it down because they're just so loud because they're dance music It's all uh, yes. So what do the depravity points do like so? Here's the thing Uh I don't really know that there's a there's a pressure point in the game where where you can just start Going ham like if you let them go Okay Yeah, um If you let them go and just get start getting wild Like I played a game I ended the game at the end of bottom of three because my opponents just started handing it to me Okay, just started handing me the die once they started Once they started handing me the dice because it just seemed like a few easy rolls It's not a big deal. We're just giving them a few d6 depravity. It's just a few extra hits and wounds I ended the game at round three at 80 depravity. I didn't bother to summon because I didn't feel like it My my experience with one of the games my friend kept letting me get the d6 depravity and We weren't talking about glutos and lord of hubris, but those guys won't die When you have it all Right. You're like it's a bad time. Correct. Yeah, absolutely So like look here's what I'll say Okay, if you're playing against like what you're attempting your response was piece of candy I just said you want to die and like after a while they just become like they were like well We've already given you so many we might as well keep taking them. I'm like, yeah, let's do this Let's just keep ramping this to the moon See how I can get can how many keepers I see them How many keepers of secrets can I summon and still retain my maximum buffs? Let's find out Let's get nuts Okay Uh, so my problem with this is Okay Elec man, I don't like this Because one I don't like time consuming mind games in the middle of a freaking Uh role of my opponent's turn two. I don't need mind games in general the game is already a mind game It's it's already playing mind games. It's happening 30 times over the course of the game Yes to put up you're already playing mind games by moving units and baiting people and doing these sorts of things That you always do in playing age sigmar. I don't need an extra mechanic That puts part of my mechanics in the hands of my opponent. Everybody else just gets a bill allegiance abilities. They can use Okay, I just want things that do a thing That's it All right Three it is super super super negative to new players and high skill players will steamroll it It is exacted the power of this ability is an exact inverse curve to the skill of the player you are playing against A new player will take the dice almost every time because they'll be like sure. It's just d6 to pravati Who cares? I want to hit more and wound more and save more and they will ramp you to a million and then you'll steam roll them off the table oops An experienced player will never take the die They will simply rally or heal or do other things to recover the wounds as there are many chances to recover the wounds Over the course of the game They will limit your ability to harvest dp out of euphoric killers your other way to get it Okay And they will starve you down so you stay super low and then your army remains weak Okay Like that's what's going to happen the more the higher skill your opponent is the weaker this ability is That's what browbeat effects are. It's not a mind game It's not oh man. I'm being so cool with my mind games. This is a mind game It's a math problem. It's an economics problem This is literally econ 101 Okay, so you're just you don't like incentive structures Uh, like inherently baked into the way you play your game I'm saying our game is already full of incentive structures and this is a particularly bad one Okay, so Uh, that's where I feel about it. So there you go Sorry if I made you sad There it is, but it's a bad mechanic folks That's that's what it is Because of like the time I read the ability to my opponent And I played this twice to both opponents. I read the ability at the start of the game They were like that sounds super cool. I said, yeah, we'll see At the end of the game, I asked them. What do they think about this? They said, I hate that mechanic And I don't want you to play this army anymore I went two for two Cool Okay Uh, so let's do this Yeah Let's talk about other things now that I've spent a lot of time talking about this, but it was worth it. Everything underpins that Okay Your other way to get to gravity is euphoric killers, which is perfectly fine. I have no issue with I at first I thought I wasn't gonna like it but playing like I really enjoyed it Is really fun to do looking and picking the perfect fight for it is is a blast way better than the dice Yeah, you get points for doing for doing wounds and mortal wounds to an enemy unit Cool. Yeah great Like you get to pick one unit, you know is going to do pretty well You get them in a fight You'd call out euphoric killers It's only at the start of your combat phase. You can only do this on your turn Yeah, um, but it's still good and it's a nice little depravity ramp I would love it if we had two abilities that were like this Uh and not Uh, and not like one mistake one and one this one. Hey electric man, it's not you buddy. I don't mind at all I'm happy to answer your question. You're not you're not present too hard Interestingly, it's each wound or mortal wound not each point of damage Um, and so this is like this is calculated before they roll saves Yeah Well, it's that are allocated. So it's they have it's after their saves. Oh, it's allocated. Yeah allocated Yeah, yeah, there it is again bottom line bottom line Oh, okay. Is it each wound or mortal wound? Which it's fine. It's fine perfectly good. It worked. It worked really well. I I didn't mind it at all As long as you get into a good fight I had a game where the first two rounds are just One skirmish and you don't get anything from it really but Yes, the mesh has always been about like picking your fights to some degree Like yeah to play this army well is to pick your trades and your fights well and you've got the speed to do so So it's not that bad Okay, it is only in melee though and only in your combat phase Let's talk about reveling depravity 12 plus neg one to be hit 24 plus Unmodified hit rolls of six or a mortal wound in addition 36 plus four to five up. There we go I love it It's great. These are super strong They make you unbelievably defensive. I have no idea what any of these have to do with Sinesh basically I love indulgence spite and torment checks out Sure. No, you can name something anything. You can I'm not I'm looking for what I mean, they can call it whatever they want. I'm talking about what Sinesh does but that's cool. All right I just like that. I could turn my army into a nice solid anvil now very Sinesh like not glass jot at all They're meant to stay around from what I recall It's a waste of 36 I wish it would have been euphoric indulgence instead of oblivious indulgence Oh Yeah, that might have fit the the five up or a little bit better, you know Mr. Cardholder. No allocate is after saves are made Because it's the actual you're making a save and then you're actually allocating the wins Okay And then you've got your summon Sinesh demons. This has been Very reduced this chart, which is cool. I like it. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine now. It's pretty weak. Um, yeah You know like it's Your 18 is basically a couple dumb heroes or 10 daymonets your 24 level is Seekers or a random non hero chariot or contorted and then you've got a blade bringer, which is just one of the three good chariots Uh, and then You know fiends or you know fiends, which is pretty worthless and then a keeper, which is Very worthless. So that's yeah Definitely not worth 36. I'm glad I don't have to carry on 30 demonets for summoning now too. So absolutely. Yeah Complete winner in my book right there with that. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine now. Let's talk about how this stuff's all split up All right, let's talk sub factions because they're a little different when we get into the war scrolls by the way folks We're gonna move fast We're gonna move fast because a lot of these haven't changed too much But we're gonna go we're gonna go through these right now Okay Yes, and they don't have a locus Summoning was weakened but still usable. I agree. She will that I actually like yeah, like it's still useful. It's fine It should be there It's where it should have been the first place it should 100% I'd be happy if they just fired it off the roof and gave me good of other abilities I don't need summoning if they just had an ability that was like once per game you can summon a unit of 10 daymonets I don't love that too That's it. That's your whole summoning like Cool. I just I don't like carrying around extra models. Yeah Okay So let's talk about invaders first up figure heads of the dark prince Okay, so all friendly invaders heroes are treated as generals Even if they're not the model picked to be your general in addition roll a dice each time you pick a friendly invaders here to carry out a heroic action On a two plus you can pick one other eligible invaders here on the battlefield to also carry out that heroic action Okay So Uh, it's pretty cool Yeah, what I mean like It's that's fine. Yeah, you can sort of like um in finna loop Heroic actions like you can just keep doing that Because as long as you keep rolling ups You just keep getting heroic actions so That's fine But it but it has to be the same heroic action Uh, yeah, sure carry out that heroic. Yeah Yeah that heroic action and so like if you do finest day ever that's limited obviously um Yeah It's cool. Yeah, it's neat. It's neat that you would like roll through Like what this the the actual play with this means that all of your heroes or luck Will determine that but you know some number of your heroes every round can be on their finest hour Yep Yeah, because the two of you pick this hero and then you two up it all the way down the line Yeah, and then there's nothing that says you can't technically Do that affected by it because they're not actually I don't know if they're not eligible or not. I'm not really sure Either way Like it's probably needs an FAQ worst case um That's fun. I would it'd be neat if they had a unique heroic action Yeah worst worst case you just generate a ton of CP Um Sure. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Like they get this one they get this escalating havoc, but it really doesn't feel like it's much in the way of These things so where it should be anyways, you can you can duplicate along you get it We you can spin through all of them okay And then escalating havoc heroic action you can carry with one friendly invaders here instead of picking one from the table and the poor rules If you do pick one eligible command trait From the list below that invaders here does not already have that heroes considered to have that command trait until the end of turn Which is fine Like Yeah, I I do agree with the lack man that if you get your actual general killed like you make a weak unit your general And then you spend the rest of the and then you get them killed like immediately You just eat them into death And then you just have everybody duping The roll for a command point two up Yeah, yeah, which is funny I do agree that that's a funny play but So what is this what are these extra command traits we might get if we're going to get it through this heroic action Best of the best plus one to attack characteristic while they're within six inches of a different hero Not bad It's melee weapons. It's not an enemy hero. It's just of a different hero So you can have two little heroes wander around in packs if they all do this they all give each other plus one attack It's fun. Yeah, it'd be nice Glory hog, uh, it's fine. You gain a cp. But again, if you're trying to cp farm, this is the highly inefficient way to do it Whereas the way we talked about earlier is the super efficient way to do it So that's fine um They're all generals, but they're not your picked general. So when your picked general dies you go to a two, uh That's how it was ruled last time Yeah, I mean Specifically we got the opposite ruling, but that's how it was ruled last time this came up uh And so then lastly Uh hurler of obscenities at the start of the combat phase you can pick one enemy within six this general To the end of that phase add one to hit rolls for attacks made by that unit but subtract one from save rolls. So that's cool Yeah, it's not bad. Well, it's It's pretty much it's the same thing as before, right? Or is it three inches either way it was a I think it was three inches before but yeah, I think it's six inches fine I don't remember I have to top my head um it is fun because uh You can do all sorts of fun things Like here's a fun thing you could do. Let's just say I can take three heroes I can use escalating havoc And then if I managed to get the two up at least two times, which is not too hard Like the first one uses escalating havoc. He picks hurler of obscenities Uh, then I you roll a two up and the second hero picks Hurler of obscenities And then I roll a two up and the third one picks hurler of obscenities And those three heroes now stand around Not with their basically six inches from an enemy unit And then at the start of the combat phase they all go boo Boo you And that enemy unit gets plus three to hit but it doesn't matter. They can only get plus one. So I guess suck it And they get negative three to save because that does stack as normal. And by the way, I will be fighting first So, uh, I guess die then Which is the powerhouse play here Um, like that is the play with this particular thing You stack multiple heroes you go hero heavy. I mean this army still is pretty hero heavy. It's got cheap enough heroes. It's fine You stack these And then you you just hurler of obscenities them down into into nothing into no save As many as you can get every time and you just start using these as little like little balls That float amongst your units to just like strip anything that comes near you of their saves Yeah, it's fun Uh, okay cool anything else we want to say on the basics here for invaders Now I hurler of obscenities is the way to go. I think well, yeah, that's that's it Yeah, I mean realistically you can just give like one of your people the best the best anyways um And you know like like say give it to it this invaders can manufacture a pretty decent keeper If she's got a cloud of other heroes near her Because you can just go best of the best with her Which gives her plus one attacks And then have her and her two buddies that are around her who are then gonna Rock themselves into hurler of obscenities and then all of them are gonna They're all gonna yell at people give neg three to save and then she'll generally just kill through anything combined with her own rend So I love that. We got a working keeper secrets this book. That's yeah, it's it's one of the ways to manufacture a working keeper Yeah Uh, no, I'm big sick. Mitchell. That's all it is I got a little got a little bit of the covid going on But keep seeing people talk about like you might be sad about but I think the book is good overall No, I do like it. Yeah, that's the funny part. It's just that stupid allegiance ability. I hate. I actually like the rest of the book It's fine It's not it's not what I hoped but it's fine Like I I want to I want something to feel more timmy. This isn't my book They didn't write a book for me, but the book is fine that Allegiance ability is trash, but otherwise it's good Okay Cool Yeah, so let's do this Let's move on artifacts Rodimus rule. It's so bad. Somebody didn't do the math. You would never pick it It's terrible silly. It's just silly. I'm not even going to read it. It's so bad Who did this math The icon of infinite excess is worth a pick. That's about, you know, army wide Plus one to attack characteristic for your whole army for a for a phase. Great stuff again Great with the stack previously mentioned if you're using it with the Best of the best thing There you go Cool. Now you can get that keeper plus two attacks when she gets up to four claw attacks It actually gets kind of scary as a monster as opposed to the normal thing that it's most Uh, that it basically does nothing Now the normal keeper is completely pathetic Unbuffed she has a untakeable war scroll Yeah, I agree. There we go Um And then the bug giling gem is like it's okay. It's a minus one attacks thing. It's okay Uh Lash of slanesh, uh, oops. I cut off part of the rules for that uh That's funny I did have to put this together through a medicated haze. So I apologize everyone. Here we go For each five plus subtract one from the attacks characteristic of that You know, it's melee weapons to a minimum of one. There you go. That's what you're doing with lash of slanesh There you go. Now, you know And knowing is half the battle G. I. Joe The pavane of slanesh Is a similar thing casting value of six in a range of 12 It subtracts out movement Uh, is that right? Yes These both do the same thing Uh, only the pavane of slanesh is for the rest of the battle Which is kind of interesting Uh, and you roll equal to their move characteristic. So it's kind of fun Effectively you should mathematically you should subtract a third of their movement out, right? Put that on a great clean one great unclean one. That'd be fun make them just sit there if you yeah, if you happen to get lucky Yeah Um But you know, I mean like it's not gonna you the same unit can't be affected by this ability more than once per battle So yeah, it's not like you can actually stack it on them And and get anywhere like mathematically you get one shot at it And you will subtract a third of their movement and you have to be pretty close. It's okay Okay, and then hysterical frenzy, uh And you roll, you know, basically Equal to their bravery characteristic. I love how every time we do this. I like this spell has changed Every time It's always got to be it's all we got we got to think of some new thing To pin the dice to It can't just be roll a number of dice equal to the number of models in the unit and then every six is a d3 No, it's got to be Holy within range or this or that or roll against blah blah blah like Who cares fine cool. Yeah, it's great On average against most units in the game, you will get one or two d3 mortal wounds out of it It's perfectly average as I spell Congratulations These are all underwhelming Uh If the move includes a dice, do you roll it? No, you do not Um if a dice is forced to be tested in any phase other than when it's active I believe it either counts as zero or one. I need to look at the core rules Um, but it does give a specific answer to that Uh So there you go I I do like how they stayed on brand with the slinnish spells though Not going to anything that makes me want to grab it Yeah, these are all like fine now, let's talk about the one I love Say tenders. Yes I suspect I'm not alone It's the good one Uh, so here we go. So many command points too Yeah, boy Let's get into it Everybody who knows my love and slinnish knows that I used to stack command points to the roof There were games on you can go back and look at the stream from Nashcon like 2018 2019 whenever that was When I hit double digit command points and rob commented on he's like, who's ever gotten to 12 command points in a single Dang, well, there you go So this one's all up my alley pretenders Call me Chrissy Hines because i'm all about it if the model picked to be your general as a pretenders hero You receive three command points instead of one If they are on the battlefield At the start of the hero phase I want that to go ahead and sink in Okay When when I start the games with What the extra three command points all my opponents are like, what do you do? What do you mean? You just get them every hero phase baby every hero phase not just yours Yeah, every hero phase Keep that general life Your general being alive is a very important thing here If the model picked to be your general as a pretenders hero They can issue the same command up to three times the same phase if it does so each commander Must be received by a friendly pretenders unit No command points are spent the second and third time your general issues that command in that phase Okay So we get like a lot more command points and by the way it turns into a lot more it's great and Every one you use is worth triple That's a triple double right there. That's great. It's so nice Apparently Skaven used to have this So good. I love it So I love this this this does what it says on the tin Command traits you can stop reading anywhere past strength of godhood, which they already fixed correctly, but it's still the best one on the list Strength of godhood is if this general issues a command to a different friendly He knights us on this unit, which of course they will you're issuing to like three people You're issuing constantly Uh Then until the end of the turn improve the rend characteristic of this general's melee weapons by one And add one to the damage characteristic of this general's melee weapons. So plus one red and plus one damage It's very good. It has already been erotted, which is correct Which is it just happens once per turn Which is fine And how it should be Because otherwise it would be insane Monarch of lies is not worth it and strongest alone is duplicative with a million other buffs you can get in this army Because plus one hit wound is actually the one thing you can get a lot of so nope Rend and damage, please Thank you I will take the two most powerful things to buff We missing anything here Feeling good. No, that's how many thoughts Strength of godhood. It was great every time I've used it. I love it. I love the extra command points Oh, uh, I think I'd still be interested in invaders, but I appreciate what they have I'm shocking Really Triple all out defense triple all out attack triple rally every turn Yeah, triple Wild I'm just like what do I redeploy I redeploy everything who all out defenses everybody does everybody All out attacks everybody else, baby Like what am I doing here? All of it all the time What's selling invaders over pretenders for you? I want to know too. I mean, it's got some good stuff. Don't get me wrong Yeah, yeah, definitely, but Like I think that So what I would say is this pretenders is much more linear Um in what it's offering Right, like you're just getting more of the same thing like and it's going to be obvious what that thing is You're sure. Um, I think that you can corner shoot a little bit more with invaders Particularly the way the hero act hero actions are triggering like Because of those other levers that you can pull That's very different than just three all out defenses all three all assaults That all gets turned off if you kill the general All right, right fair enough, right? um where Where to me like again, it's both linear It's linear for what it does. It's boring for what it does Because again, it's just doing the kind of stock standard stuff And it can be turned off just by getting having the general snipe again to me the much more interesting kind of Um is the weird kind of johnny-ish characteristics of the the multi Uh heroic action combined with stacking of you know, and then related to that Uh stacking much of safe penalties. Well, where do you when it where am I need fair enough? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I don't I don't hate any of that explanation, but I'm still a pretenders lad and that's I'm back on the chain gang over here so uh Let's talk about Like the best artifact That's the crown of dark secrets It's the start of your first hero phase pay one enemy unit on the battlefield For the rest of the battle while that unit is within six inches of the bear The attacks characteristic of that unit's melee weapons is one Now admittedly we need a little FAQ here Because what if I throw this equipment this artifact onto the fame? Do I still get this bonus? I'll tell you I read it as yes, you did Yes, you do Yeah, because it doesn't say anything about the artifact is having an effect it burnt its effect I put the thing on you then I threw on the fame Yeah, right and now if you're near six inches of me You're reduced to one attack for all your profiles not you caught that right tom not reduce their attacks by one The attack characteristic Six inches of the bearer if you throw that on the fame you're no longer the bearer I was at the moment that happened. It's not checking then Right. I was the bearer of that thing when I made the decision Right, but you're no longer like you can know they can't that unit can't be within six inches of the bearer because the bearer They are no longer the bearer once you've thrown it on I look forward to the FAQ around this either way. I don't care It's still worth it. Even if you can't throw it like even if you can't throw it on the fame Okay, well, I would be interested to see if their attacks characteristic can be modified The attacks characteristic of that unit's melee weapons is one. This is the full text I understand. I I I hear that At any rate, it's very potent, right Um, because like this is a straight shutdown For a lot of units like this is This is it. They're rinsed if they get near you. They're just dead Like I did this to a mangler's to a loon boss on mangler's quick And then just walked over near him and didn't let him get away from me You know what he accomplished in that game? Nothing Because he just had no attacks. He's just dead Most of the time he was laboring under neg1 to attack neg1 to hit as well or more It's just like if you have any kind of big melee threat It's just unreal Right. Yeah. Well for crag news Yeah So yeah, sure all those people who rely on like that kind of stuff. It's just One All right Uh The scepter of domination is Uh, not worth it. I don't know why our strike less effects less strike last effects have to be so bad And everybody else they just hand them out like candy It's just it's hilarious to me. Everybody else in the world gets strike last on like a million things for no reason You roll like a two up you get to you get to make everybody in the world strike last But because we we have to use it Uh But because of us Because it's sun ash we have to have only crappy abilities to access this So it's fine. I I guess we broke the rules the first time too much and people yeah Oh, and by the way, yes jrb. This is absolutely a tome of npe Like you've got all that previous stuff like offering the dice and just causing free mortal wounds is npe You pick something like crown of dark secrets. Oh boy That's super bad if they're relying on their special boy hero Like, uh, they've got their megaboss on mawcrusher He turned him to one attack Out of him and the mount That guy ain't so dangerous anymore All right Uh breath takers like okay, sure. Yes. I see it like it stops death frenzy, but okay like That's too. That's too cute by half. There's too few on-death effects in this game. Um, yeah It's just all about the crown for me Sure, I see that like crown is incredible. Um soul sly shards is Fine, it's more rolling against their bravery at least this time if you beat it It's a huge amount of time. They can't issue or receive commands, which is cool Uh, I would just 3d6 Of course, like the other one. I know then it's just a total crap shoot But it's fine. It is a big effect if it goes off. So I'm willing to risk it for this It's not like oh, you got it by one and you get one mortal wound, right? Like, okay Like at least it's something big issue or receive. Yeah is very big Yeah Um The phantasma gorya is really really really really strong, but it has to be like Used very carefully Which is if successfully pat casting pick one enemy within range and visible to the caster Until your next hero phase each time that unit is picked to fight You can pick one friendly heat knights of slinus unit within three inches of that unit which can retreat So you have to be like multi charging And then doing whatever To make this all work, right? Uh, and then finally the good spell born of damnation. Yay This is a good spell. This is why you want to be in pretenders tom Uh, because this spell is real good Spell it has a casting value of six if it successfully cast will six dice for each four up you get a depravity point Yeah, like if anything Correct the the power of the pretenders is in the artifacts and spells not in it's in their ability I mean their abilities are straight busted powerful too The fact that you like i'm going first you give me the first turn and I start at four command points And then it flips to your turn and I gain another three It's so nice Like i'm using every ability all the time. That's how this works I will every phase use every ability and end the turn with command points Like that is wild Right, I I lost my general and I still had enough command points that It was crazy. Yeah, so anyways, all right god seekers Uh, truly the most boring to me, but they have a fun ability Thundering cavalcade they can re-roll charges within 12 inches of their heroes So everybody within 12 inches of their heroes can re-roll charge so potent ability Uh And The maniacal hunters at the start of each battle round before the players receive their starting command points You can move up to d3 friendly god seeker units that are more than three inches from all in units up to d6 Enches roll separately for each units because you want to do a lot of silly rolling. All right How many units do I get all right? Let me roll for each unit They must finish the move more than three inches from all in units, but still it's pre-battle round moving Which is always powerful moving. Yeah, it's good. Yep. Yep Into the fray is fun strike first if you charge. It's cool Speed chaser you get you get good ogre impact hits and then hunter supreme Uh, when you charge enemy units can't pile in and you get plus one to attacks They're all fine They're all fine. It's all fine. Yeah, I like speed chaser a lot with the chariots, but yeah, sure Yep So that's cool Your artifacts, um Which is fine the cameo of the dark prince can let you like Issue Basically a command point for free So, okay Commands be friendly. He knights us an issue. There's not any command points being spent I how many how many points is this single person issuing? Okay, well, it's only one. Yeah once for rattle right Uh Threaty voice box once for battle to start a combat phase and play their melody It's a minus one attacks thing. There's a lot of minus one attacks in this book To units within six inches of the bear, which is pretty strong And then girdle the roam racer the actual really good one, which is you can fly and you get cheater six-inch pile in Yeah Yeah, that's a nice one Yeah, I mean sure. I mean it's a six inch. It's six inch cheater piling in and fly like obviously it's good Yeah Uh, I don't know. I do like subtracting attack characteristics. Sure. It's fun It's it's a good combo. All these are to a minimum of one, of course But you can you can very much be in a place where a lot of your unit depending on what you take here Remember, all these are completely mutually exclusive. Yeah Like Either you're in invaders or you're in god seekers. You're in pretenders. Yeah So you have a very limited spell list Yes quite quite limited right because You just you just run out of spells that you can reasonably pick for all your spellcasters like instantaneously Uh, so there you go Um And I just I think they're not it's one of the things again that disappoints me It's like one of those things they didn't feel like they were really cared about or calculated Like gee, I've got a lot of wizards a lot of this army are wizards I guess we just all take the same spell or flaming weapon or something Yeah, like cool Um paths is fine gives you a 3d6 charge, which is cool Um very on brand and I'm all about that. Yeah, sure Uh progeny is nice. This went from a heal to a really wild ability that stops redeploy Which is actually cool. I like this ability. Um, it's fun because it's you pick a heat knights unit and when they End up doing those things the those units can't receive the redeploy command when they're near them Which is actually really fun. That's a cool ability. Yeah And then slothful stupor, which is very strong, which is casting value of seven in range of 12 Pick one enemy within range invisible Until your next hero phase the move characteristic of that unit's three and all run rolls and charge rolls for that unit or three It's a fun one Pretty brutal. Yep. Yeah makes it makes very very predictable Yeah, god seekers has the best spell list He's my for my money. Yeah. Yeah Like a buff or an awesome charge ability to shut off enemy redeploys in a big bubble way And a thing that can set an enemy units move to three And charge to three That's great and run to three and run to three That's really great I want cast spells. This is the this is where I'm going Yeah, like you can basically like stay just to touch out or outside nine And they can't get to you. It's not possible. Right. Yeah, right That's with running charge. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah fun, right? It's great. You throw that on 9.6 Yeah, yep. Okay Let's talk about some war scrolls. Let's talk about them scrolls Oh my god Remember that thing I talked about earlier with time Yeah I My perception of time is so hosed right now. I thought that that took forever. It really didn't take that long With all I've been doing this forever I mean, it does feel like we've been doing it forever, but that's the nature of slanage. I guess I'm trying not to talk much. I'm sorry. No, no, you're good, man. We're good. We're trying to push through for you Vince. Yeah, I appreciate it Okay, like we'd like to prolong your suffering Yeah Indeed by the way hit like if you haven't already and subscribe and do those fun things I'm reminding in the middle of the show call to action. Yay Look if I'm here with the rona and still pushing through this you can click a little button. How hard is that? It's just that little And it makes everything fun and happy. Okay This is still one of my favorite pieces of art ever So awesome I wish she'll actually was better Yeah, she's not She's not but that's okay. All right. Let's talk about the keeper of secrets Uh Okay, so like I'm just gonna lay this out pretty straight. So the whip is now effectively a short range missile weapon Which is fine But it also Don't don't don't say that. It's not fine No, it is okay. It's okay It's fine as a ranged weapon because what it's actually doing Is you pick an enemy unit within six cents a unit roll a die on a two up their minus one to their attack profile That's why you take the whip. Sure. I understand that I understand that Which is you know reasonable You can take the knife or sinestrus hand. Okay Uh the knife You can pick one enemy model within one inch of this unit that has any wounds allocated to it on a two up They suffer a number of mortal wounds equal to the roll fun. If you're trying to kill somebody out well, like notice that like Uh, it's just units that have any wounds allocated to them at all. Uh, it's not like not not allocated this combat base Not allocated by this weapon. Yeah Like so it's a great like oh you took a an arcane bolts, uh mortal wound cool You know take a d basically a d6 mortal Yep Yeah Yeah, the die is cast. I'm full on pretender for my keeper. You ask people ask what would have my pretender hero be I make it a keeper. I'll tell you right now because I just wanted to go kill things um And then uh, the sinestrus hand Uh, does heal which is fine But honestly, I'm just taking the shield now because the shield gives you a ward of five up Yes, it will become a nonbow When you eventually get to 36 depravity But if I'm trying to be a pretender, you have to get there Yeah, you have to get there and stay alive and you have to keep your general life Like that's the key is you have to keep your general life if you're going to be pretenders Yep. Um, and so this has to be the five foot ward Yep Um, she still has her mortals on a six, uh You know, you still have the little cause some extra mortal wounds Uh, with her dark temptations She's a relatively fun engine to push through even more potential Uh mortal wounds slash depravity points Uh, and so that's that's cool She still has a very bad spell which is fine And once for battle she can do her excess of violence where she can pick a different unit and make them fight again The blue 400 means she's 400 points Which is how much she is She's 400 points Double cast her base move 14 inches so on and so forth Still only has four attacks with a sword and two attacks with a claws because I guess with slanesh everything has to be stupidly literal You see other units that have weapons They oh you got two claws that means you get two attacks Nobody else in the freaking world operates like this Right Yeah No, it's yeah Uh, but but they can do five damage each They can yeah Elec man. Yes, that is correct. What is npe about it is the heavy debuffs. This army has a lot of heavy debuffs You said, uh, because soul blight and knight haunt have lots of debuffs too. Are they npe? Yes Yes, absolutely correct Many people who play against knight haunt freaking hate it because of that because it's such heavy debuffs I mean They're fine Different show different show Uh So at foreign points, I cannot impress upon you how pathetic this model is if you use her straight Okay her average damage Assuming basically like if you just like this if this thing attacks As printed here her average damage against a four up save is about seven That's with everything written here Yeah seven That's your four point model. She's like a souped up black coach Yeah So now When I when you put how does she kid it out and pretenders? She's kidded out with strength of godhood obviously for the rend and damage. She's kidded out with that The thing that lets her pick an enemy unit and knock them to one attack Right if you want to give that to her or you can give it to sodia like again If I can then throw that on the feign and have its ability still apply Which is the question otherwise you give that to someone else you give a second match guide them to her You throw that on the feign Yeah Because you just want to give you want to give her plus one to wound for the whole game. That's the key Right like and what you would do is you would like if you give it to secondary hero the secondary hero You just need somebody that's highly mobile that can get around Yeah, yeah, it's just her little buddy. Yeah, but like I wouldn't even mind her with like the separate domination Like I understand it's a bad strikes last effect on a five plus But it's all units within three inches, you know on uh on that monster base Like she's still going to broadcast that around and when that does trigger It'll be It'll be pretty good. Sure. Sure When it triggered But again, yeah, like Like you can easily get her within, you know five like if she's a combat, right? She can get within, you know, three inches of three four units Sure, you know, and we're also gonna buffer with other things in the book Correct And yes, it is hams. It is always the great risk that you throw the artifact and roll one Which is just like the dumbest thing if you sacrifice an artifact It should just give you the bonus for the rest of the game why we have to have that on two up. I don't know Burning an actual choice like that is ridiculous The point is the keeper can be made pretty good If you get her on like twos and twos for her main attacks upper rend by one upper damage by one Which is what you can pretty easily do in that build and pretenders Where she becomes rend two with a sword rend three with the claws Or if you have rend invaders where you have like a hurler Of obscenities hype crew behind her like yo, yo, yo, what's up? What's up enemies about to fight her? You don't even know son. What you about to get into It's gonna be rough It's gonna be bad And then and then all of a sudden they're like, oh no and their saves all go down in the trash, right Then she'll cut through them like butter and do a lot more damage I kind of want to start an army all over and just have it be a whole bunch of musicians now Just hype crews behind her. This is my point. They don't lean into the party enough. Okay tons of chains Which I mean if you look at most of the models they already have that Yeah, it'll be a nice easy conversion then Yeah But now I wouldn't 400s a lot to ask for and then to put all that into her at all I like her don't get me wrong. I'm always gonna run one now one souped up is good. Um Uh That's good. It's good. Yeah, and one souped up in a shalaxy, right? No, no Sorry and like it's it's you know the the fact that she can have a five up word now to start is what is what trips it over She goes she can't just get immediately peeled. She's still not tough But four up five up is better than not so cool. Yeah Um Shalaxy It's still like shalaxy. She's more expensive, which is just comical Her soul piercer at least does d3 plus three damage now and then she has her two attacks with her claws Um, she's 420 points She does have the five up word which is cool. She's still a double caster Um Subtracts hits one from hitting wound. Mm-hmm, but she's definitely 420 points Yeah, I mean for four attacks The uh You're paying over 100 points for attack She has a really good attack for 100 points. Yes. Um, you know, it's fine. She's okay It's it's not as Look, she's just not very good. I don't want to tell you at least we're on two attacks with soul piercer. Let's skip it next All right, like I just don't have time to waste on mostly bad war scrolls Um, and yes, I agree on the this is something I didn't push on but yes, it is relative With the like excess of violence Yeah, the fight twice It's a perfectly great thing for euphoric killers if you if you if you access girl Yeah, you have Assuming you're not just blowing them out in one swing. So it's good But I mean you want but like so one thing that that because it's allocated wounds just to return back to that Um, you're gonna want like it doesn't matter about damage done So her their multi damage attacks don't do anything, right? No, it's allocated wounds. It's all good. So the allocate wounds still count on the top So allocated wounds that's the enemy damage done. It's damage actually done. Yes. Yeah Okay, but that weren't saved correct Kind of like how the old depravity worked Yeah, it's just the wound is what is the numbers they marked on the dice and or removed figs for that's how much you get It's that easy That's all it is Okay, did you do five damage after everything? Uh It's fine Uh, all right, and I agree with infinite sorrows who says she's not great, but she's not the one They got the most screwed in this book for no reason agree Uh, okay, senessa and dexessa Both 270 points, which is comical because one of these is actually potentially worth taking and one of them is not Yep Sorry, not bad. No, you're all right Uh, senessa good Yep, as always bad That's it folks They can both fly they're both war masters Okay, which is cool dexessa Following the approach of 100 points per attack I think that might have been the design philosophy for some of these Sure I mean her attacks do slowly climb climb up slowly over the course of the battle Um Oh, no corn is definitely more playable than this book. It's much easier and more new new player friendly as well. Yeah Um senessa is cool because she has her staff which can do um, just some straight Mortal wounds like pretty good mortal wounds at a distance at 18 inches, which is great I love her staff so much. Yeah, it's strong. She can issue commands Without a command point being spent she's a great backup command point issuer um So, you know, like she's real good. She's a and she's a war master. Yep. Yeah, exactly Uh, and she can fly a very rare ability in this army And she has built in neg one to be hit which is really fun Uh, because it's just all hit rolls, which is really fun when you then get to 12 depravity and your whole army Uh is neg one No, uh, no a lot of attacks here Uh, and so yes, I know the dexesses ranged attacks are actually a melee attack. I know but senessas aren't um The um So, yeah, it's all good all good stuff senessa good dexessa bad Nine wound heroes versus 10 wound heroes. Why are they pointing the same? cool I agree with uh the electric man. I I do I'm disappointed that she lost her lore master ability for senessa Sure, it's fine. I already got too many wizards. What am I going to lore master? They're both. Oh, I can play for So I can play for tenders and take the god seeker spell. That's why Oh, okay. Okay. Got it Uh, yeah, I mean like you don't have you don't have enough you don't need a lore master anymore You don't have any spells that matter you take two heroes. You got like a spell casting Uh, so anyways, yeah, so that's a good dex. That's a bad there you go wrap that up Yeah um Oh, one other important thing here is there's a nice thread of plus one to hit and wound Throughout this book. It's pretty easy to get in a lot of different overlapping ways and senessa is one of them because She can pick an enemy hero visible to the caster and roll 3d6 Just fine if it's greater than their bravery then it's Plus one to hit and wound rolls For all attacks that target that hero until your next hero phase Okay, yeah So the point is she's like this and by the way the spell on that is like A hero that's visible Right, so she's another great source of plus one to hit and wound just like from downtown I've always loved her. We're gonna talk about really good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a single cast wizard blah blah blah whatever that's fine No, I let's talk about it. I like I like her. Oh, sorry. No, we'll move on Go go say oh, I I just hurt staff. I don't care how many kids spell suggest that staff and the ability to cast whispers of doubt from downtown alone are amazing Taking our pretenders not spending a command point isn't really that big of a deal But it might be worth it other other places for sure. Sure. Yeah Okay, now one of my favorite heroes celesk um the best couple in in warhammer Indeed, why don't we get more romantic? like uh associations in warhammer It's weird, right Um, that's usually a thing that shows up in like most every fantasy story has like romantic conclusions or entanglements or stuff And yet like there's we we have like tack less than selenor Ha ha ha ha funny stuff Okay So celesk is cool the vengeful legions. I love the two of these. It's beautiful figure and just beautiful overall kit. Oh, yeah Single cast wizard again a war master, which is fun. You can just have all generals Even if you're not invaders you can just have all generals so many war masters who love it and uh Deadly symbiosis a very very powerful ability, but you have to use it very carefully So effectively you're still trying to balance the number of mortals and demon units whole you're within 18 of this unit And if you do you add one to hit and moon rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by all your units within 18 inches So you actually do have to do a little balancing act here But if you it's not actually that hard to pull off With her yeah, like I was doing it in a game and I just had two units kind of passing like two units of each type in the bubble And then I had two units One of each type just outside the bubble That would dance around that in case I lost one in the bubble they could step in I could like have them because keep mind It's holy within Yeah, so you can you can play with that just by like finishing one person slightly out or whatever like as you need to adjust Right if you play with what that bubble is Like all one one person towed in or towed out. Oops. We're back to even um, so it's cool like Plus one to hit and wound for everybody within 18 is a huge bonus because it's including Celeste herself here by the way for themselves. Yeah, I should say Who can run in charge who like has a thing where if they um They get a six to save they cause some water wounds back And they have another very powerful spell which is subvert Which is a casting value of seven a range of 18 inches can either issue or receive commands So Again, super cool and a good 18 inch range Uh, but also these these Folks just do work Because realistically what they're going to have is 12 attacks on twos and twos Yeah, uh at run two or run one and by the by once you get up to do immortal wounds on sixes Even more. Oh And they're all for 215 points Single cast wizard with a war master with an incredible army wide buff And a great spell that can run in charge And it's nine wounds So it gets to benefit from all the nine wound stuff in the game. Yeah That's just not a monster Not a monster Can hide behind things which is nice Okay Hmm Contorted epitome Okay, which question I was just looking at the keywords. Didn't it used to have the mortal keyword? It did it does not anymore. Yeah, it's just daemon. No, yeah So like you have to have one more mortal unit. You can't turn itself on. Yes. Yeah That is okay. That is a word that's a worthwhile shout out. You got to make sure you're balancing correctly Yeah, all right. Uh, no good good good call Contorted epitome I still love it Still great. I think it's fantastic 190 double cast wizard Double unbinder 12-inch move really fast seven wounds, you know, great Galatian champion in the uh In the in the current season Sure Yes, it does count itself as a demon unit by the way the herring of tree falling Um, oh does it hold on does the other Other friendly senesh demon. So it's not counting itself at all. I didn't catch that last time. How about that? There you go I don't think I played it wrong because I I had the right numbers in balance. So there you go I just wasn't I just I was treating it as zero. So because I thought that's how it was playing. So I was doing the right thing Hey, there you go Double cast wizard. It's still re-rolls cast rolls, which is fantastic Um, it has this new ability horrible fascination enemy units within three inches of any friendly units of this ability Cannot issue or receive commands In addition enemy units in three inches of any friendly units of this ability cannot retreat Holy moses You know It became real good Like it was already a type tech piece and now it became a really good tech Yeah, still has the two up save against mortal wounds And uh, still has a fantastic spell and overwhelming acquiescence You get d three different enemy units within a 24 inch range and you get plus one to wound against them Yeah, it's a really strong Yet another source of the plus one to wound right and there's a lot of this This is like a big one and you can hit multiples of them Contorted is strong. It's fast. It's great in the current season. It's almost immune to mortal wounds It has a really powerful ability here You know, it can still do great stuff with like a flaming weapon It'll actually get very scary again when you when you turn on the the um The six is to mortal your entire army gets really scary when you get up to all that stuff This one's a recipient of it Yeah, yes crown of dark secrets is really brutal on this thing Yeah, yeah, it is like turning someone down to one attack With the crown of dark secrets charging this girl in they can't retreat away from you They can't issue or receive commands Uh And like if you're deep enough in the game They're neg one to be to hit you and they're and you have a five up Word well, yeah Yeah, like you just you just hey your most powerful unit is now stuck to these two little idiots floating around on a mirror and you just do nothing for the rest of the game Yeah, they're great So, yeah super powerful Uh, love the epitome. I think you see it a ton of lists. I think it's super strong and real good. Yeah Uh the enrapturous it's a skip from me I like her I like making people re-roll their successful cast and doing a little bit more mortal wounds Sure, sometimes it doesn't work out for you, but It's fun and it's annoying sure Um Yeah, she's a skip. She just doesn't do enough it's from like She's 120 points of Of things I don't that I'm like pretty neutral and yeah Uh Now the mask But I get it. She's a beautiful model. I understand why you want to like her. Yeah The mask at 140 I don't hate with her new ability her new ability being the endless dance after deployment But before the first battle round begins you can remove this unit from the battlefield if you do so Set this unit up again anywhere within your opponent's territory more than three inches From all enemy units, but only three Uh Oh, sure. Absolutely roaming hipster said for the infernal rapture. She's a good summon against the right opponent. Yes. No that Yeah, I should say that is a summonable unit and she is a great summon. Totally agree with that. Yeah Yeah But I love the mask love that I can set her up over there. I love that I can kick her up to nine attacks Love that she's up to two damage now, which is great And she self heals as well In addition to being bravery 10 and easily easily Uh heroic recovering on top of that She's still great. She's a great pinning unit at 140 with something with that kind of pinning ability. Oh boy. Oh boy I love the mask She's always been a fun one to use Depending on how your opponent set up this can be your easy turn one euphoria killers call Oh, yeah Because you're trying to get you need to get a euphoria killers call all five rounds of the game like you just need to on your turn And so Her just getting popped over To the other side picking some weak chaff unit that she's gonna easily just rinse Right kicking her up to nine attacks And then just going and rinse calling it and then rinsing that thing. It's like they're 10 depravity. Boom Like just have her go rinse a chaff unit Yeah, I mean yeah 18 damage potentially. Yeah, so right and that's all you want to do Right and and like again sure if you can if you've got an easy foot hero, that's fine But I like her more as a depravity farmer Um because like again, I'll kill one of your chaff units And I'll get 10 depravity that puts me so close To that first tier Right, and then if I get a born of damnation off Or something like that boom or i'm over tier one Realistically, you're gonna throw five guys Yeah, you're gonna throw five guys with them And so either that you know like on failed hits or wounds or whatever And you know, I mean they can either take five d d three mortals or you know, they might take one And if they may be take one of those then that'll put your Yes, the mask is yes. She is unique. Yeah She's still that one unique girl, but you know, she great She she's she's Love her even more now. Love her before love her now Absolutely. All right. Let's just talk about all these chariots Yep Because we have three chariot types as always seeker Hellflair Exalted, which is just the other two shoved together into one. No, no The they all have blade bringers at their head blade bringer is a keyword blade bringer is a thing you can summon on the chart at like 30 or something 24, I don't remember exactly what the number is, but it's somewhere in there Secret chariots the small one at eight wounds hellflares nine exalted is 10 They're all fine That's my answer All of the chariot types go battle line specifically Uh They all go battle line with their own specific chariot type general, which I kind of hate Like I kind of hate that if you want the secret chariots, you've got to have the secret chariot blade bringer general You'd think like the exalted chariot general would be just like, yeah, let's go chariot people. Come on Why do we have to have the exact one? But sure whatever Yeah, it's dumb, but Sure, and then like they all do like the seeker people Have mutilating blades, which means they do impact hits two up d three d three plus one if you're near the blade bringer They all have the the blade bringers themselves all have wakui essence, which is the single target plus one to wound spell so Good good spell. Yep. That's a very useful thing The hell flare has the grind at the start of the combat phase instead of the impact hits And uh once again, it's the same thing where like they both have soul sent But you get the hell flares get a bonuses to if their hell flare boss is near them It's 240 base for the 130 point basic one that goes battle line with the hell flare general And then finally the big 10 wound one Which is 260 points Which it does have wakui essence still And soul gorgers this unit can issue the same command up to two times in the same phase If it does so each command must be received by a friendly exalted chariot unit No command point is spent the second time this unit issues that command Which does make me admittedly want to play an all exalted chariot army and pretenders where i'm just like triple doubling My commands to all exalted chariots Like an issue the same command again So it just seems fun Yeah, that's really good. Just everybody all the time always gets everything I like six units get all out defense every phase or six units get all attack or redeploy my whole army. I just seems fun Yeah, yeah Start just make a race track with them. Yeah, yeah, that'd be great But obviously they work very well in god seekers and this is nice bonus. This is really like all of these Do pretty well in god seekers Um Okay Alrighty, so that's our chariot peeps The base vice leader on foot. She's 140 That is too much for that Maybe like 125 Like we're going to talk about the next thing like she She pulls in damon at units to fight one after the other. Why would I care? Damon is still not good I mean you shut your mouth. I like them When I wrote that rule, I thought demonets were like really good. I was like, yeah, and I went and looked at the demonet rule. I was like, oh Right, okay. Damonets are fine. They're 125 for 10. They're right here. They're always battle line two attacks Yeah, three fours neg one one Without any of the other buffs in the army being on they're perfectly acceptable quick expensive overly expensive chef Sure, right like if none of the other buffs in the army are on Then they are dramatically overpointed and they will just die Right, like they'll do a little bit of damage here and there But but they'll just die Now it is cool that they get plus one to run in charge And they can they have built in run and charge, which is great You know making 21 attacks on threes and fours as a unit is cool They very much benefit from the target that they're going after having acquiescence on them in some way for the extra plus one to wound Like if you get enough other things in the unit in their favor You can do some good work with these girls and they rally on five up And they do rally on a five up now if you if you're dealing in a world where you have 24 depravity Okay Then all of a sudden they become a much different situation Yeah, because they are on 25 mil bases. And so it's quite easy to fight with all 20 of them And now that 20 is made like assuming you got a unit of 20 is what I'm saying that unit is suddenly making 41 attacks With every six causing a mortal wound in addition Right very different situation at that point. Yes, they're worth the 125 for 10 My point is when you take them just understand and know how you're expecting to use them Because without the depravity buffs alive, they will just underwhelm They're a nice counter punch unit Sure, but something's got to be out front Which we'll talk about that in a minute, but I agree with you actually I think they can be a pretty good counter punch unit though They're perfectly acceptable chat and like if they came in on 40 attacks or 41 attacks like that buffed Um, you're just gonna like max out your depravity when they're done Like if you choose them as your as your euphoric killers choice. Yeah, euphoric. Yeah Yeah, sure. I mean, yeah, you're gonna rinse something right, especially if you can again There are many instances of plus one to hit and plus one to wound. We've talked about right, right all the different ways you can get at it, right? Right Uh Sinessa Celesk overwhelming acquiescence regular acquiescence multiple like multi-unit spanning all out of tax Like this is an army where you should basically be seeking to always be a plus one to hit and wound And if you put these girls on twos and threes and you're triggering the sixes are mortals in addition Yeah Oh lord. She coming It's gonna do work So yeah, they're a great counter punch unit case. Just know how you're trying to use them All right, let's keep moving fiends Pass got any defense of these crag Now that they're the cool models. I like the way they look I think they're still bad Yeah, two out of three The subtract one from hit rules that I used to take them for back in the day. It's very That's not needed anymore. So yeah, right. Yeah someday Someday seekers I'm back on board with these guys 140 for five. They are a battle line Love in these girls now Why do I love these girls? Well, let me tell you why because they're a great another turn one euphoric killers farmer These girls have a need for speed baby 14 inch base move they can run 2d6 instead of d6 and they can run and charge Uh, that's a lot and they're on the same thing two threes fours neg one one, however At the end of the combat phase if they killed anybody with a wound's characteristic of two or less Which is very easy to set up and achieve in most armies Sucks if you're playing giants or ogres or something. Yeah But in most armies somebody's got something with a wound's characteristic of two or less Then there are attacks characteristic go up by one for the whole game That's great. Yep Uh By the way that keeps happening every combat phase Point that out So They're great. Um, I like seekers a lot. I think they're a good summon. I think they're a good battle line unit They're very fast They're excellent chaff because they're on cav bases Five wide they can spread out. They have good coherency They can actually rally on five up and they Rally on a five up This is this is the one I pick over demonettes. Oh, and they have plus every time Charged Like these these would be my Like I would take like two unites for chaff and then a 20 block of day minutes for a counter punch Yep, okay It's fine. Yeah, I mean, I don't end up. Yeah, I don't know it ends up being you don't need that much in the way of We'll talk about it. All right glutos He's fantastic if you're looking for a center anchor to your army and you're not taking a keeper You're taking glutos because he's the man Come around Not not nothing can break. You can't bring him down This dude is hard as a coffin nail, especially if you're farming high depravity He's got a three up base a built-in ward of five up all the time Gives all enemies within 12 inches of him neg one to hit whether they're attacking him or not So hence if they try to attack him and you're at least 12 depravity now It's neg two to hit you can't even all on attack your way out of it anymore Okay And at the start of the hero phase he can pick a thing He's going to pick himself And do damage which means that the start of your hero phase he gets to do a thing that's effectively going to let him heal six wounds So we're talking about a three up save five up ward neg two to be hit that effectively heals six wounds Yeah Yep Yep He was great He also causes his spell is also really good too And causes enemy units to have their moves run and charge rolls Which is huge Yeah, I I love him. I he's in all my list He's so much fun Yep, and he he doesn't die at all It it's crazy how he's quite different than everything else in here Yeah, yeah, he has a super anvil like just as I said super tough if you're looking for somebody to anchor a whole Force he can do it. He's great He's he's probably why most of my list goes super mortal heavy Just the battle shock immunity that comes with it later and sure the bravery. He's just He's really good. He holds his own I have yet to see him die with this new book Yeah, yep I I do kind of miss his bonuses to casting spells. I trouble getting stuff off with him, but Everybody's losing their bonuses to cast and I don't hate it Yeah, yeah, but in the end it's it's totally fine. I'm I'm okay with where he's at I don't need the spells with with him around. Yeah, super strong All right, he's just he's just fantastic. 480 points. Yeah, but totally worth it He is the strong center to your army Okay, yeah Lord of hubris Uh five attacks three three snag one two damage. Oh, I cut off his stats oops Whatever It happens he has Five wounds and a five up save with a four award There you go His special ability is you can pick an enemy unit He gives them a chance to strike first the strike first effect applies to them But all their unit attacks must target this unit Sure This is the type of thing I really hate Uh Because Where like as an ability played straight This is okay Like he walks up. Sure. He points at an enemy unit and goes ha ha you have to attack me right And it's and and then he attacks them and he and you get some control of the enemy phase All right, because you're kind of deciding our attacks And he's on a five up four up So he's not going to survive very much if you hit him with any kind of real power But of course that's not actually what we're doing what we're doing is we're doing some kind of nonsense That's around fantasmagoria or something similar Where we go we strike we call it out. Then we retreat this dude and now that unit can't attack at all Yeah right Like that's what we do Or I threw the crown on him and sure didn't do that to just It's already kind of annoying to play with all the debuff. So I just do the crown on him and That way we roll some dice against them You're going to attempt to basically hose this in multiple ways to where you force them to fight him and then you don't let them fight him Right. Yeah I I hate when the incentive on the thing Is is completely misaligned to the the spirit of the thing Yes, thank you. The die is cast. It was terrible when it was goading arrogance for lumina that's terrible here. Yes They write these things thinking that we're all just going to play fair and nice and be like, yes, why don't you Come get me Like we're not all just going to try to cheat it Right, like we're just going to try to be like, yeah, cool. I don't care what any of this flavor is about I'm going to try to force you to attack a guy and then remove that guy so you can attack that guy So I waste your entire unit's whole turn Like super cool, man. I hated that whenever I got And So if it was like, you know, no, but as base unit, it's fine. It's fine Uh I do like his secondary ability, which is only the best which is he gives pain bringers and twin souls um, holy within 12 inches of him Uh Fight on death, which is cool. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, it's super cool That frenzy has killed me a many a time. So it's very potent ability. So it's good stuff SIG vault. He's still SIG vault. He does SIG vault. He things keep in mind. He's a little weaker now because he can't Uh, because he can't be brought off board in ambush anymore Because we don't have that stuff. So secondary sub factions like we used to have I don't know why we didn't just get sub factions. I don't know why this book still got written like it did Why why didn't we just like get allegiance abilities and sub factions and stuff? Like we could have just done that That's fine Uh But cool. I still like him good. He's still good. SIG vault's still great. I love this dude, man. I'm I'm in for this Uh-oh no good Uh Let's talk the lord of pain. He's still the lord of pain four up base save four up ward Uh, and he kicks back mortal wounds and nicely He had one to hit and rolls and wound rolls for friendly heat nights of slainish mortal units Holy within 12 this inches of this unit while this unit is contesting an objective so Very better hit and roll. Yep. Yeah another hit and wound roll bonus very easy win to achieve I'll take it. Yeah, he's great. I like the lord of pain a lot at 135 I think he's super valuable. He doesn't have quite the techie nonsense, but he's still good Yeah, yeah, I like him now. Let's talk about the sexiest wizard this side of the Beginning of this book shard speaker of slainish here. We are get some 125 points. This is a unit. I can get behind an auto include mortal for me single castor If she casts a spell that is not unbound She gains her shadow cloaked claws and gains a ward of four up So Very good book holder Okay Yeah, because then she gets an extra spell And you got two shots at it with magic book Magic book I have covid fallen. That's what's going on Uh, and also Uh, once per turn in your shooting phase, you can pick one enemy unit within nine inches of this unit and roll a die On a four up Subtract one from save rolls for attacks that target that unit until your next hero phase Same unit cannot be affected by this ability more than once per turn Remember when we were talking earlier about Uh stacking yelling at people and insulting them in invaders Why not also have her be one of the heroes that's following it around that also rolled the two up So now all three of the heroes yell at them and then the shard speaker points at them and now they're like neg a bajillion to save Yep Yeah, don't even worry about rolling saves. They won't matter. Yeah, she's great and pretenders She's great in invaders where you want to be getting those extra save bonuses She can be another bonus rend for your strength of godhood general effectively Um, and also she's pretty darn effective in melee because those shadow cloak claws If you're in the point where you can actually like I was keeping her near the I was using her as one of my mortal units to balance out on Celesk So she was just on like twos and twos neg one two damage with those five attacks. Man. I did some work Bliss barbs are still bliss barbs at 150 points. They're pretty worth it I think there's a lot of people who are calling this as being a shooting book And maybe that's true the most powerful version of this book is probably a shooting focused sort of castley type of build Yeah Uh, I could see that so It could happen I I personally think bliss barbs are very very weak and fragile, but it's hard to argue with their They're incredibly effective shooting profile at 150 points. So There you go. Yeah, I expected you to say thanks. I hate it and move on I that is also correct. I know you don't like bliss barbs. I don't and I do hate it and let's move on pain bringers Craig you want to talk about pain bringers because I love pain bringers. Oh my gosh. Do I love them? Uh, my biggest complaint last time was why were they just a four up and then they're she'll just give them a plus one That's gone. They're just a three up base And they get to add one to their save roll when they're freaking Uh, with the holy within 12 as an objective that I don't I don't control like they're great for going out there Within enemy territory or an objective. You don't control. Yeah, it is that They're they're just they're fun. They're great. Um What the three attacks threes and threes and minus one rend and we've seen how many times you get plus one to wound and hit So it's pretty much effectively twos and twos Uh, they're they're fun. They're great. I they stick they stay around too. They could take a hit Yep, where before they couldn't I don't I could go on and on and on about how much I love them I could see I mean I could see a fees is really running like a block Yeah, that's what I do the one inch range sucks, right even for 10, but like it's I think it might be worth it Yeah, I think pain bringers are so strong I think it's just so strong because that three attacks on threes threes neg one one And just like as the game goes on and you build depravity, they only get so much better They make a lot of attacks when they start getting neg one to hit when they start triggering Mortal wounds when they get a five up ward Holy crap They're not going anywhere. That's great. Yeah, so just super solid. How many how many units of these would you run? Uh, I mean, I I think you can easily there's a couple different builds of this depending on what you want I think they're interesting bodyguards with glutos just having like two by five or one by 10 Around glutos can be really powerful because then you're skier Then they're also getting the neg two bubble and it's just a strong center in the current In the current season, there's a lot of strong like strong center does a lot of work, right? Yeah And that would also give them, uh, Immune about Yeah Yeah, so they're really good, um twin souls not as good. They didn't get the save bonus They lost an inch of range, which is like Why that was their whole thing that made them different You know, there are two attacks on threes fours neg one for two damage They have a ward of five up while they're within three inches spending units, which becomes a nonbow Later in the game and they they subtract one from the attacks characteristic This just feels like the greatest example like of them almost getting it right and then just screwing it up The pain bringers feel so correct because they're clearly an attrition anvil Right. Yeah, they're high save they get better at tough over the course the game and will wear people down So if that's the case then you'd think the twin souls would be like an evasion hammer Or something like that, right? That would be the true counter Nope, it's not that like Okay We're not I guess So that's fine I just don't like the twin souls very much. Um, I think they're okay now And I think the minus two, uh, enemy unit attacks Is very powerful. It is another source of that if that's kind of what you're Um going for then I think it just seems redundant stacked really really strong I mean all that just seems redundant like I just I can't imagine running I don't know It's it's so easy to get the minus one to attack characteristics and then the five up ward Yeah, yeah Yeah, I just like when I look at these next to uh, the Pain bringers like I I would probably take pain bringers every time Yeah, I mean look I I understand what you're saying J and J is certainly a great player of slanash as well But I just don't think these guys cut the mustard for other options in the book I mean like that's I I'm happy to be proven wrong at some point and I will play around with them more But they just haven't been doing it for me So, yeah Okay But I don't want them to be durable infinite sorrows. I want them to be killy Because they're supposed to be my hammer choice Right I've got plenty of things that I can I can survive with I already have a durable thing Like if they were neg to rend that that may be other sure Uh, hell's striders with claw spears and hell striders with hell scourges I don't particularly favor the claw spears now because they're kind of bad The hell scourges that were perfectly good. These are your great mortal high-inch move seeker writers 14 inch move The reason you take these even though they are 160 for five, which is a bit expensive Is good old fashioned hooked tendrils enemy models with the wounds characteristic of one or two Cannot contest objective while they're within three inches of any friendly units with this ability Yet again one of those units that if it happens like makes for great chaff makes for great speed objective control Can actually do a decent amount of little work because every model makes five attacks on threes and fours No, rend one damage again if you can go get into enemy chaff early and just call you for it killers You can actually get there. It's a great way to just ramp early on um But yeah, they're just a very Multi-fasted unit if you get into the late game then they actually become like the toughest chaff this You know that's possible out of four up five up. So it's great. Yeah Slick blade seekers and bliss barb seekers Uh Yeah, they're all good. They're fine. Yeah, they're very expensive For and not and don't have a roll Um, I agree infinite sorrows completely Uh, you know slick blades cool because it can run in charge Bliss barb can run and shoot of course. They're both very fast. They both have a high amount of wounds Um with slick blade. They want to go hunt low wound units Because their glaives go to four attacks each on threes and threes neg two rend one damage I really like them I like the seekers a lot. I haven't got as much of a chance to play with them yet as I want to I want to experiment a little more with them But I really like this slick blade. I again, they just seem like a very powerful euphoric killers unit When they can go out and hunt the right unit. They're a great like I'm always looking what's going to farm me in my turn Euphoric killers and generally I want something that I can move 20 inches And then get into the fight I want it to be in Right and then call that bonus and swing And these guys getting them on like twos and twos neg two one damage It'll get there. Yeah, they'll they'll do the work Yeah, uh And then Um The bliss barb seekers now have that thing they just love to give out apparently to everybody Uh, which is the vectors of agony if any wounds caused by attacks made with missile weapons Uh By this unit are allocated to an enemy unit subtract one from save rolls for attacks that target that unit until the end of that turn The same unit cannot be affected by this ability more than once per turn They don't shut off the ability to all gain. So that's cool. Yeah It's still good another source of minus one to save so I just want to point out, right? Um, so like again very interesting very positive I like these I like the seekers a lot. They're much harder to remove than their tiny little friends on foot And they have a much better utility in my mind That isn't just like raw shooting power with that vectors of agony like combined with All the things we mentioned previously they can do a bunch of stuff. So there you go Any tips on how boc takes on this new book? Just take the d3 damage because who cares your boc You got plenty of bodies and charge forward and smash into them just just out like out body them Like you've got to just body this army hard as fast as possible Don't let them build the gravity. Yeah, don't let them build the gravity Yeah Fiend bloods Uh still a pass It's still a pass for me. They have to do more damage now. Yeah, that's cool And they can fight twice Which is cool But there um nine wounds for 145 points With like an eight inch move on a five up save And um No run in charge And no run in charge They are too slow to be Too effective So Yeah pass The dread pageant is cool Because it can strike first Okay Yep Which means it can be an excellent partner for your phantasm agoria effects and then peeling your lord of hubris out of the fight Um, there are other things that will let you strike first in this book as well But that's obviously another one that's a pretty cheap investment So you kind of bring them in and the the guy like the dread pageant charges in the lord of hubris charges in the lord of hubris Goes ha ha you must fight me and then the dread pageant goes ha ha we strike first and then They attack and then the hubris sky leaps because of phantasm agoria And then that enemy unit goes. Oh, no, I can't fight anybody There you go So cool Yes, if you've made a unit fight last in your turn wouldn't the sling or fight last take effect before the enemy units fight last Yes, it would because fight lasts are done completely by priority Uh, the wheels of excruciation Uh are fine. They're 80 points the mesmerizing mirror is Uh Fine. It's 60 points. But the reason you may think about it Is not actually because of the lure. It's because of this the end of the movement phase Well, six dice reach you within six inches this endless spell for each six That unit's commanding player must choose whether that unit will gaze into the mirror resist temptation If it resist temptation suffers d3 wounds if it gaze in the mirror the players summon the endless spell gains d3 Depravity points ability has no effect on heat nights and slush units So it's again, it's another in this new world It's another good depravity farm way where it's like more d3 in order wounds You really want to like if you're doing that and a keeper You know and the mirror You can actually start hitting them with enough d3 with your dice your temptations Where you can just d3 mortal war wound the whole enemy army to death and that's fun Yeah Um, so yeah I like the mirror Uh also, yes, oh totally and don't forget one of the other advantages I didn't say this with the bliss barb seekers, which I like or the bliss barbs on foot or even with the little The little shooter harp lady is that a shooting phase is another chance where you can offer them Nice. Yeah, so So there you go Um, yeah, the mirror is great It really does work well in tandem with your other strats here That can just feed your depravity to The moon, right? Because people who tend to make one bad decision will just start cascading bad decisions, which I will say is very on theme You start wrecking your life for this book. You just keep wrecking your life for this book Temptations, you know, it's a difficult thing to struggle with Yeah, yeah, yeah And then the dreadful is Fine and the feign is still a summoning thing and gives you plus one to wound for the whole game or for that round depending on whether you just prick yourself on the feign or if you Um Throw an artifact on it The lack of man. Why do I hate bliss barb archers? First of all, we shouldn't be a shooting army That's number one And I hate that we consistently are getting pegged into a shooting army That's why I hate them first slanesh is not about shooting. I don't know who told anybody slanesh is about shooting, but it's certainly not That's number one number two I hate how it always ends up being a priority and people always go to shooting if they can so that sucks Number three, I hate that there are little paper boys That die so easy because they're like six up saves the six bravery and I don't like them And I don't like swarming the board with glass cannon shooters It's not why I decided to play warhammer. I decided to play warhammer because I wanted to go punch somebody in the face Not play a bunch of little glass cannon shooters Boring The answer is it's pure preference, but prevents. Yes. Yes. I don't think they're a bad unit as I said I thought they're fine The only thing that's actually negative in the larger game state is if they is if they do cause the army to Lean too much into being a shooting platform only Then that's negative But everything else is just my taste All right, folks, there we go. That's it We're at the end. I'm going to bed. I'm exhausted Yeah Thanks for having me Absolutely. Hey craig final thing, man. What do you what do you got? What didn't we talk about? What do you want to say about slanesh go for it? No, I mean I obviously love slanesh a lot Uh, I I do think the lord of hubris is A huge great addition. It survived the vermin lord corruptor all by itself with its full attacks Would that come at me first? I loved it um I feel like we were we've kind of harped on a lot of the negative things that we didn't like about the book But overall I think the book is a good book. It's gonna be a lot of fun It's just it went in a different direction than I thought they would go So But yeah, overall I love it. I'm excited to keep playing it I I was taking a break from a os till this book dropped. I looked at I'm like, okay. Well, I'm back Yeah, it's funny for me like I love that Most of the units that I wanted to play just because I love the look of them Like they're very play of they're like imminently playable Yeah And so that's super enticing to me Um that like the the main things that I'm interested in and like feeling are all present there so I have extras tom if you want me to send some your way Well, I mean to be very clear. I have like I have at least a battle force box And then and more so I actually do like I slowly for for a year I Like all of my rewards that I got at like different auctions and like for placing or whatever I grabbed slanesh stuff It sounds like eventually this is gonna have to be good So the reality is is that uh, I'm uh, I may end up. I don't know. We'll see. Uh, we'll see checks out All right, good. I mean it is a very johnny-ish book down and you're a very johnny-ish player You are a johnny spike. So hey, I think it's right in your wheelhouse Um, I think just add it to the file Sure My final thoughts Are I'm sad that the book isn't as well aligned to me as I would have liked that being said I did have some fun playing it I do worry about the npe my opponents in the games. I've played so far Didn't really enjoy playing against me. It was kind of unfun for them because of everything I was doing to like restrict and sap their their play experience and their their game plan Not a problem for tom. Tom loves ruining I was gonna say actually the more you talk about it the more the more it sounds like it's right up my alley I've ruined other people's fun. I get to do that for three hours at a time. Yeah But but overall it is very much a better book I just wish we would have gone to revolution not evolution here I think eventually we need to strip slanesh back to the studs And like actually make a cohesive theory of like what is this army? Um, but I mean it's it's it's certainly playable, right? Uh, when you look at a lot of the heroes, they're bringing a lot of value And they've done a lot better job of assigning the roles to things. Yes, doom. You're fine You don't have to use the demon side if you don't want things like the bliss barbs and so like that are actually quite strong The pain bringers are quite strong. Yes. Yeah, I I don't really run Gludos crazy strong And so like in the end Uh, I'm sure I'll play you know a few more games of this just to get a real sense and understanding of it But it's not really a book for me. And that's not a judgment on the quality. Please hear me when I say that, right? Like it's just a book that's mainly about kind of Forcing npe on your opponent And I don't really like that. That's not what I go for in this game Like I want to do a thing Are you a magic? Are you a rustic study magic player? If you are this is the book Yeah, and like I own tons of rustic all those things. You know that tom. I never use any of them I never put them in my decks because I think they're a bad play experience for people Yeah, and yep, and this is the same thing here Like yeah, you can stack up a bunch of really awful penalties And then just gut them and then make them make a bunch of bad choices So your army becomes effectively immortal like yay Good stuff Or they just you kill them through a d3 mortal wounds at a time like for the few armies that don't really have any Kind of real healing or rally bonuses Yeah, this stuff will suck Yeah So Uh at any rate, um, but I am glad that a lot more stuff is playable There really aren't that many bad units or things I wouldn't put on the table So that's strong We've got some good hammers got some good anvils got some good chaff and utility and mobile stuff Most the heroes have value so overall good Good like working within this restricted paradigm of design space. It's not bad That's my that's my final thing It's a hot like my personal vote Uh Like a six out of ten, but it's probably a seven out of ten in reality Yeah, I think that's probably accurate. That's good All right, everybody. Yeah Well, there we go. Well, thanks so much for watching I really appreciate it and as always Hit like hit subscribe Support the channel and all the fun ways that you can do so There's like links and things down there for patreon and all sorts of other things For those who haven't seen it yet. Yes. I'm gonna try to work with this person To get these stickers May yes Uh, we're gonna we're gonna work on that. It came up to me and asked some questions about it. And so, yes, amazing I'm so happy to hear that We're gonna get that We're gonna get that done. He had me at fist of that. Like that's that's all that's partially evan's work too who evan is who uh Which is many x producer who originally did that That image of the here's why you're wrong At any rate Thank you so much Really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll hopefully be better by next wednesday. So as always